Author Topic: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!  (Read 162466 times)

GespenstM

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #1350 on: 02 September 2018, 16:44:38 »
In an open field fight, find somewhere else to fight.  Trying to shove a square block in a star-shaped hole isn't a matter of figuring out which way to twist it to make it fit.

Stage Morph from Smash Bros. Ultimate confirmed for Megamek? Cool.

Sometimes changing the maps you're playing on isn't an option, so I was mostly looking at this from a 'am I being too harsh on it, am I missing something that mitigates what I see as a problem?' perspective.

Elmoth

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #1351 on: 02 September 2018, 16:57:51 »
Regarding the Anduriens, a messy universe is MUCH better from a warfare gaming point of view, so it is likely to be part of a new non-capellan faction, yeah. This is why I do not buy a pan-IS superpower succeeding for more than a few years (something that tstarts broken and in the process of decomposing before even starting) but that this me.

Scotty

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #1352 on: 02 September 2018, 17:54:56 »
Stage Morph from Smash Bros. Ultimate confirmed for Megamek? Cool.

Sometimes changing the maps you're playing on isn't an option, so I was mostly looking at this from a 'am I being too harsh on it, am I missing something that mitigates what I see as a problem?' perspective.

Yes: deploy it somewhere else.  If that's out of your hands, find places on your maps with shorter sight lines and head for that. Use faster units to encircle and herd enemies into shorter range.

None of that directly translates to "this side toward enemy" which means it's frequently on the side of not shooting every turn (or even close to that) and also means your opponent can mitigate it if you're too brazen about it.
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truetanker

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #1353 on: 03 September 2018, 13:42:44 »
On a side note, has anyone had success using the N13M Grand Titan in an open field battle? Like, plains and low hills and so on, instead of cities or mountains. If so, what circumstances made it work out well for you? I've been trying to warm up to it ever since I realized I'm okay with the N10M in its era and remain quite fond of the N11M even in present era. Would love to make good on the N13M too.

You've gotta support it!

Grand Titan-N13M
Awesome-9M
Ostwar-3M
Hercules-LS-9000

All are 4/6 or faster.

Breakdown:
4 ER PPC
1 HPPC
1 LRM/20 w/Artemis
1 LB-X-AC/10
1 ERL
And a bunch of closer weapons, including Melee!

TT
« Last Edit: 03 September 2018, 13:46:53 by truetanker »
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GespenstM

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #1354 on: 09 September 2018, 08:29:02 »
So, I've been poking at Alpha Strike with a tiny stick from a great distance. It has me curious.

Can someone sell me on the game, and tell me a bit about how FWL's mainstays carry over to it? I've noticed some units, just by glancing at their stat cards, fight significantly differently than they do in tabletop (TDR-10M does not particularly care what range it's at, for example, since SnubPPCs don't have their 'finesse factor', and the Tempest's combat damage curve is much more streamlined at 5/5/2).

This looks like "BattleTech: Classic Tabletop, VASTLY MEGA STREAMLINED Edition". I say that as a potentially good thing.

Opinions?

Kidd

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #1355 on: 09 September 2018, 08:32:33 »
Battletech, WHM40K with hitpoints and attack values, no discrete hit locations

For fighting large-ish battles it's the most granular option possible

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #1356 on: 09 September 2018, 09:15:56 »
As the weapon range finessing is one of my favorite parts of the game, alpha strike’s flattened ranges don’t really do it for me. On the granularity freeway the whole system is about two exits past what I’d want in a streamlined ruleset.

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Elmoth

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #1357 on: 09 September 2018, 09:56:27 »
I am at the other extreme. Classic bt did not take a strong hold here because it was too detailed. My group has recently started a campaign in the bt universe and we are using AS as the rule of choice. It plays fast, meaning that

1. We can play AS and still enjoy a full rpg session
B. Play a tournament with 4 or 5 games in a single day and be home by kid’s dinner time.

It is geared towards the great scenics and the kind of games tat you read in the fiction, with several vehicle sper side, not a pair or at most a lance of mechs per side. A lance battle takes 1 hour. A company game less than 2 hours. So it gains speed and the option to field large formations at the cost os somewhat less detail. In a sense you can take a full lance when you used to take a single mech with multiple hit locations and weapons. Less detail, more grand deployment. We like the later.

Cheers,
Xavi

GespenstM

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #1358 on: 09 September 2018, 10:51:50 »
Interesting. Can you tell me a bit more about how the range bands work in practical play?

For example, let's say a Mad Cat Mk. IV C is fighting a Mad Cat Mk. II Standard. Obviously it is in the Mk. IV's favor to keep the fight at Long range. Given the speeds involved (10 inches vs 8 inches), can it keep the fight at Long range reliably enough to potentially win on a typical map? Or is the difference in speed low enough that the Mk. II can typically get into Medium range fast enough to generally take the win?

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #1359 on: 09 September 2018, 11:08:48 »
In my experience, attempting a stand-off strategy in AlphaStrike is a bit of a dog's breakfast. Because all the brackets are equalized, even if you have a higher nominal damage value at long-range than your opponent, your attacks are no more likely to hit. The best you can typically manage in AlphaStrike at long range is to drop a few enemy units with focused fire from your entire force before the reach knife fighting range. I suppose it's possible to keep falling back to have a running gun battle in AlphaStrike, but I've never seen it played on a map with enough open space to make it possible & dragging the game out making Hail Mary die rolls at long-range seems like the antithesis of what the game was designed for.

AlphaStrike was derived from BattleForce & it shows. In clashes of battalion on battalion, mass matters much more than the exact performance characteristics of a 'Mech, & over dozens of die rolls damage results can still tell, but at an individual unit level results don't map to Total Warfare. I don't believe that AlphaStrike's rules are favorable to any units designed to play keep-away.

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #1360 on: 09 September 2018, 11:19:48 »
I am at the other extreme. Classic bt did not take a strong hold here because it was too detailed. My group has recently started a campaign in the bt universe and we are using AS as the rule of choice. It plays fast, meaning that

1. We can play AS and still enjoy a full rpg session
B. Play a tournament with 4 or 5 games in a single day and be home by kid’s dinner time.

It is geared towards the great scenics and the kind of games tat you read in the fiction, with several vehicle sper side, not a pair or at most a lance of mechs per side. A lance battle takes 1 hour. A company game less than 2 hours. So it gains speed and the option to field large formations at the cost os somewhat less detail. In a sense you can take a full lance when you used to take a single mech with multiple hit locations and weapons. Less detail, more grand deployment. We like the later.

Cheers,
Xavi

yup, time is valuable. and if you want to have battles on any magnitude of large, AS is the only way to go. i don't really care about huge engagements - 10k (duke it out) to 15k (with non-kill em all objectives) bv per side is about as large as i like to go so the stripping of an individual unit's character cuts a little too close to the quick for my taste.

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GespenstM

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #1361 on: 09 September 2018, 11:44:49 »
I'm starting to think you may be right. Further, this conversion has some WEIRD results. Things like the Grand Titan N11M being very strong at Medium range, and the Juliano being outgunned by it.

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #1362 on: 09 September 2018, 11:55:45 »
Yeah, AlphaStrike buffs short & medium range weapons by giving them improved to-hits & range & penalizes long range weapons by ignoring their longer short & medium brackets. My play style in Total Warfare leans heavily towards mid-range skirmishing, so it's not a compromise I'm particularly excited by.

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #1363 on: 09 September 2018, 12:33:02 »
I'm starting to think you may be right. Further, this conversion has some WEIRD results. Things like the Grand Titan N11M being very strong at Medium range, and the Juliano being outgunned by it.

The Juliano is outgunned by very few 'Mechs in Alpha Strike, on account of being able to spike up to 9 damage at Medium range thanks to overheating. :D  In a one-on-one combat it's entirely possible for the Juliano to finish off the Grand Titan on the second turn of combat.

The Lion's Share of combat in Alpha Strike takes place at Medium range.  There's no two ways about it.  Managing and manipulating the range bands in your favor is a major part of why I think the finer points of maneuver are actually significantly more important in Alpha Strike than in Total Warfare.  If you approach a fight against an opponent well, you can isolate single units at Medium range while the rest of the enemy force is at Long.  That's only reliably possible in the beginning of the fight, though.  After that, finding ways to remove damaged units from most enemy units' lines of sight to force damage to spread around, and ensuring your own damage is grouped up enough to finish off (or cripple with crits) units are imperative.  Long range can still be entirely serviceable with skill improvements, use of C3, and saturation of fire, but it's definitely fighting an uphill battle in offensive efficiency, largely because a unit that has long range damage worth talking about also has medium range damage that's also pretty good, and you're paying for that damage in the unit's PV whether it gets used or not.

If you'd asked these questions before the PV revision I'd have told you units with TMM +3 or higher ruled the battlefield and everyone else was playing for second place, but now fielding forces entirely on the slow end of things is entirely possible from a purely skirmish standpoint.  Fielding a mix of units is probably the way to go, but there's not really an issue in specializing anymore.

Where Alpha Strike shines is in combined arms play.  Integrating aerospace units, artillery, conventional units, and more is easier than it's ever been.  In that respect, the Free Worlds League (especially in the Dark Age) has an embarrassment of riches.  While the thresholding capability of the HPPC isn't quite as pronounced in the Picaroon hits all the right breakpoints with damage that can threshold interceptors at good range, can be used to strafe in a pinch (ENE damage isn't halved on strafes), and is fast enough that it can carry a bomb without slowing down on the radar map or can choose to forego the bomb to make itself a better dogfighter.  It's also pretty ridiculously durable for a light fighter.  The Aquila and Shikra are both serviceable platforms that don't shine or seem underpowered versus other regional unit, too.

Alpha Strike definitely only starts to shine once you get to company (500 PV is our local standard) sized games, below that the streamlining results in contests that can be decided by a single bad dice roll at a bad time whether you're taking steps to mitigate that or not.  Battalion sized games (typically 1250 PV, locally) are still doable in a single afternoon, and can completely change the dynamics of how you approach the table.

I love it.
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Elmoth

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #1364 on: 09 September 2018, 13:19:50 »
I disagree with the last statement. Been playing smaleer games than that and it feels right now the less. It is fast. I would say that the above comment is only true if you use few units of high value.

GespenstM

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #1365 on: 09 September 2018, 18:01:26 »
One thing I do like is the extreme fine details of each Mech is now glossed over. There's little meaningful difference between the TMP-3M and -3G in this system, even if the -3G is notably better in Total Warfare.

Same deal with the TDR-10M, TDR-9M, and ZU-G60; the machines are largely interchangeable. Not completely so, but they are so very similar that they all seem about equally good in Alpha Strike.

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #1366 on: 09 September 2018, 18:02:40 »
I really like that, because it lets me use the unit I like the looks of better and not feel bad about opportunity costs. :D
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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #1367 on: 10 September 2018, 13:54:26 »
So Spotlight on the 1st Marik Protectors is available as of this morning.  I.m going to grab when I'm off work, of course, but has anyone picked it up yet?
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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #1368 on: 10 September 2018, 14:01:50 »
No, but I am interested . . . I think Kendall was one of those worlds that could have been a Hiring Hall when the League was broken up.  You had the Protectors on world for a long time providing stability, they had their own training facilities/program, a couple of producers were on planet or in a couple jumps, and independent planet reps would travel to Kendall for hiring a Protector unit.
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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #1369 on: 10 September 2018, 15:02:08 »
contents


18 pages (cover 1, credits 1, unit fluff 6, CC tracks 2, record sheets 8 )
Alpha Company Rosters for 3082, 3087
Unit history and description
Brief accounts of combat on Sackville, Kendall, and Lahti
12 short personnel bios
2 warchest tracks
SBF and ACS stats
Alpha Strike cards
« Last Edit: 10 September 2018, 15:06:18 by Sartris »

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #1370 on: 10 September 2018, 20:36:26 »
Yeah, already read through it twice.  I had hoped it would carry through into 3150, but alas.  I did however like how the unit is basically a collection from around the League.  Aristocrats, immigrants, a Regulan, even a Marian all working towards a common goal.
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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #1371 on: 10 September 2018, 21:41:25 »
Sounds like the perfect unit for a role-playing party... :)
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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #1372 on: 13 September 2018, 12:18:29 »
Hey guys, got a game on Sunday wanted to run this past everyone.  10K BV2, no limit of unit numbers, pre-Jihad.

Anvil-3R, Perseus-B, Locust-5M, Longinus laser, 2x Ontos LGR, 2x Achileus flamer.  The Pereus is my taxi for the Longinus team, the Locust is my backstab/disruptor, the Anvil and Perseus brawl the midfield with the Achileus in support, and the Ontoses provide long range fires.  Oddly, there's no LRMs for a Marik force but I've got plenty of LGR and large lasers to make up for the lack.
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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #1373 on: 13 September 2018, 13:55:04 »
Interesting... at first glance it looks like one of those specialized groups that require great skill and a complex battle plan to utilize, but on closer inspection, it's a brute-force beatstick. I rather like it. All those 8-9-point hits are going to add up surprisingly fast, and the ammo for your Gauss should hold out as long as you hold your fire until medium range. Shame the Achileus don't have any transport, but I guess that means they'll reach the main brawl right when you'll need some crit seekers for filling in all those holes your big stuff has punched. My only advice would be to dump a ton of AMS ammo on the first turn, and be sure that your Perseus NEVER gets in a position to be leg-attacked.
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GespenstM

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #1374 on: 13 September 2018, 14:27:37 »
Fun FWL secret: We don't need LRMs. They're helpful and certainly offer us some fun options, but we're not truly the 'LRM faction' who collapse without LRMs.

Your force looks perfectly workable to me. The only serious weakness I see is the formation looks like it would really suffer if forests or lakes/rivers come up; no real way to jump. This may or may not truly matter depending on your map. My only real concern is how the Achileus will work mid-field without something to get it there; Jump 3 is liable to fall behind the Perseus and Anvil.

I actually wonder if they'd be better off bodyguarding your Ontos team?

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #1375 on: 13 September 2018, 14:30:28 »
I think the Longinus guards the Ontos . . .

Do you have any guesses to what you will see on the table?
Colt Ward
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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #1376 on: 13 September 2018, 14:49:05 »
You'd be surprised how fast 3MP will move an Infantry unit when they don't care about hex turns or most terrain. Unless he goes for a long, straightline run with his mechs over many turns, I don't see the suits falling more than a turn or two behind the mechs, especially the Perseus. At some point the advance will slow and/or stop as the mechs reach their desired fighting range and switch to maneuvering within the battle area, at which point the Achileus squads will catch up, possibly just in time to crit-seek or defend the mechs from close backstabbers.
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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #1377 on: 13 September 2018, 15:47:54 »
For a one point reduction, go with Ontos MML, she drops a LGR for 2 MML-7s, now you have token LRM and SRM fire!

TT
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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #1378 on: 14 September 2018, 07:57:35 »
For a one point reduction, go with Ontos MML, she drops a LGR for 2 MML-7s, now you have token LRM and SRM fire!

TT

Though sadly this is a Jihad era unit. Otherwise he'd be stocking up on Moltkes.  8)
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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #1379 on: 14 September 2018, 08:42:06 »
Though sadly this is a Jihad era unit. Otherwise he'd be stocking up on Moltkes.  8)

Well, it would be a good Jihad upgrade.
« Last Edit: 14 September 2018, 08:45:58 by Geont »
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