Poll

Keep inferno capability or upgrade to streak SRMs?

I want my infernos, ordinary SRMs for me.
45 (62.5%)
I rather have the ammo efficiency and hit with all missiles capability of Streak SRM.
27 (37.5%)

Total Members Voted: 72

Author Topic: The age old question: Keep inferno capability or upgrade to streak SRMs?  (Read 13327 times)

Neufeld

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2539
  • Raven, Lyran, Horse, Capellan, Canopian, Bear
A straight-forward poll, do you keep ordinary SRMs, or upgrade to Streaks once they become available?
To avoid muddying things, assume that MMLs are not available until several years in the future.

"Real men and women do not need Terra"
-- Grendel Roberts
"
We will be used to subdue the Capellan Confederation. We will be used to bring the Free Worlds League to heel. We will be used to
hunt bandits and support corrupt rulers and to reinforce the evils of the Inner Sphere that drove our ancestors from it so long ago."
-- Elias Crichell

Blackjack Jones

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 853
For the most part, keep the old SRM's if given the choice. If there was a third option for MML's, I'd imagine it would swamp both of these however.
Also, although not a popular choice, there is also NLRM's to cover most of the SRM range, trading damage for accuracy, up until inside 3 hexes.

Not to say Streak's don't have their place, but it is a rather narrow focus- the mechanism works well on flashbulbs that need close range punch, or
units that can't afford to have large ammo bombs, but it looses out to the other options outside that niche.
« Last Edit: 25 September 2011, 14:24:29 by Blackjack Jones »

garhkal

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6657
If available, i shift to streaks..  Don't use infernos much as we don't fight a lot of vehicles or troops.
It's not who you kill, but how they die!
You can't shoot what you can't see.
You can not dodge it if you don't know it's coming.

Greyhind

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 635
  • I'm Watching You
Good question. As a straight, blind, upgrade of an already pre-used unit I'd go streak but there are plenty of times when that would be nonsensical. Meh, as they say in France.

A. Lurker

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4641
Depends. For ammo/heat efficiency, Streaks are arguably superior (especially the Clan models with their increased range on top of that), and they offer more raw punch on a per-launcher basis (though that's partially mitigated by the launchers themselves weighing more). But for flexibility they honestly can't hold a candle to standard SRMs, particularly if TacOps ammo types are allowed to come out and play as well -- all Streak missiles can do is deal straightforward damage.

So it really comes down to what I'm designing a particular unit or Omni configuration for. Which I guess falls loosely under "keeping standard SRMs" since the poll doesn't let me take a third option, even though I'll certainly start using Streaks as well once they become available.

Sartris

  • Codex Conditor
  • BattleTech Volunteer
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 19858
  • Cap’n-Generalissimost
    • Master Unit List
I'll certainly start using Streaks as well once they become available.

Yeah, it's not a strictly either / or argument.

Are infernos your only alternate munition option?

You bought the box set and are ready to expand your bt experience. Now what? | Modern Sourcebook Index | FASA Sourcebook Index | Print on Demand Index
Equipment Reference Cards | DIY Pilot Cards | PaperTech Mech and Vehicle Counters

Quote
Interviewer: Since you’ve stopped making art, how do you spend your time?
Paul Chan Breathers: Oh, I’m a breather. I’m a respirateur. Isn’t that enough?

Neufeld

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2539
  • Raven, Lyran, Horse, Capellan, Canopian, Bear
Are infernos your only alternate munition option?

Everything tournament legal during SL/Clan Invasion. That should be Harpoon, Tear-Gas, Fragmentation, Narc and Artemis. Of those Narc is probably the only one that is interesting. Fragmentation is a poor mans Inferno, Artemis compared poorly to Streak, Harpoon and Tear-Gas are not for ordinary combat.



"Real men and women do not need Terra"
-- Grendel Roberts
"
We will be used to subdue the Capellan Confederation. We will be used to bring the Free Worlds League to heel. We will be used to
hunt bandits and support corrupt rulers and to reinforce the evils of the Inner Sphere that drove our ancestors from it so long ago."
-- Elias Crichell

bakija

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 705
A straight-forward poll, do you keep ordinary SRMs, or upgrade to Streaks once they become available?

Well, given that you are generally going to have to downgrade a size of SRM launcher if you upgrade (i.e. turn an SRM6 into a streak SRM4), you are generally better off with the regular SRM, given that you can also use Infernos with it.

wundergoat

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 335
Streaks give you heat and ammo efficiency, SRMs give you ammo options and the possibility of hitting for extra damage for the weight.  SRMs get my vote, unless I am Clan or using AIV LRMs.  Infernos are just too good of a metagame changer, even vs heat neutral mechs.

mensa12345

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 153
  • FedCom Forever!!!
It really depends on how vehicle and infantry driven your campaigns are.  I tend to fight pretty realistic ones, so I see a lot of Vs.
That which is Seen cannot be Unseen.

Martius

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1850
SRMs.

I like my Mine Clearance Ammo, my Smoke and my Infernos too much.

Stormfury

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4429
  • Death couldn't stop me. How will you?
When playing Clan (unless I'm using an Arctic Wolf) the additional range Streaks offer for their increase in mass gets them the nod.

When playing Inner Sphere there is no range boost and you can't use alternate munitions, so Streaks are somewhat less attractive.
Mordin Solus: We need a plan to stop them.
John Shepard: We fight or we die. That's the plan.
Ashley Williams: Wow. That's the plan? Is it just me, or did Shepard have better plans before he died?
Urdnot Wrex: Silence! This is the best plan anyone, anywhere has ever had!
Garrus Vakarian: Yes! I AM SO THERE I AM THERE ALREADY!
Tali'Zora vas Normandy: *Facepalm*

A. Lurker

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4641
Everything tournament legal during SL/Clan Invasion. That should be Harpoon, Tear-Gas, Fragmentation, Narc and Artemis. Of those Narc is probably the only one that is interesting. Fragmentation is a poor mans Inferno, Artemis compared poorly to Streak, Harpoon and Tear-Gas are not for ordinary combat.

Harpoon and tear gas ammo aren't tournament legal. They're mentioned in the TechManual (as are Thunders and other non-tournament stuff), but the actual rules for them only show up in TacOps.

So under strict TW rules, your SRM ammo selection is "Artemis-equipped, fragmentation, inferno, or Narc-equipped". Of course that makes infernos stand out, especially since they do everything frag warheads do just as well or better and a lot more besides; what's left over doesn't really do more than "more damage", which Streaks have already covered. (The ability to have Narc-guided missiles fire indirectly at a target with a beacon without needing a spotter doesn't help SRMs, which can't be fired indirectly in the first place.) I suppose that if you're also fielding iNarc, Narc-compatible ammo would at least get that -1 to-hit bonus...of course, in that case you're probably either ComStar or WoB and have access to all sorts of cute high-tech toys anyway.

dirty harry

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 940
  • Make my day
When playing Clan (unless I'm using an Arctic Wolf) the additional range Streaks offer for their increase in mass gets them the nod.

When playing Inner Sphere there is no range boost and you can't use alternate munitions, so Streaks are somewhat less attractive.

+1

IS Streaks don't really attract me. More weight, same range and the ammunition saving will only repay in long term campaigns. If you are playing scenarios only, even the ammo saving doesn't work. So if you think about the IS, standard SRMs will do the job.

Clan Streaks are something different. Still more weight, but the plus in range and fewer alternative ammunitions can make a difference.

Maniac Actual

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 894
    • checkout my fantasy and SF writing
Streaks.  Always Streaks.  By the time the appear in cannon, 95% of mechs have DHS.  Thus, infernos have little effect vs. mechs.  Straks crit seak very. very well vs. tanks. and so unless you KNOW your gonna catch the PBI in the open..

STREAKS!!!!
AS may be as much a representation of the Battletech universe as the original tabletop game is, but if you tell someone "I'm playing Battletech" chances are, if they know what that is, they're going to take you to mean the original tabletop game. - Steve Restless

Ferrosol

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 228
Streaks.  Always Streaks.  By the time the appear in cannon, 95% of mechs have DHS.  Thus, infernos have little effect vs. mechs.  Straks crit seak very. very well vs. tanks. and so unless you KNOW your gonna catch the PBI in the open..

STREAKS!!!!

I find that a lot of mechs in the modern era really ride the heat curve even with DHS. Stuff like the Awesome 9Q or the Warhammer 8D could easily fall vulnerable to a handful of SRM infernos, Plus nothing beats infernos for clearing away tanks and BA. Personally I prefer MMLs but if the choice is between streaks and normal SRMs I am taking the normal SRM.
« Last Edit: 26 September 2011, 10:16:50 by Ferrosol »

va_wanderer

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 585
Streaks.  Always Streaks.  By the time the appear in cannon, 95% of mechs have DHS.  Thus, infernos have little effect vs. mechs.  Straks crit seak very. very well vs. tanks. and so unless you KNOW your gonna catch the PBI in the open..

STREAKS!!!!

This is one of the largest myths about DHS machines I see- that inferno rounds do nothing.

Any machine, regardless of heat sink type that regularly pushes it's heat sinks to near the maximum is vulnerable to Inferno rounds. And doesn't even take into account the stopping power it has vs. TSM-equipped designs, battle armor, vehicles, and infantry.

Slap half a dozen doses of napalm love into your average Warhammer, regardless of era and you will ruin it's day. And if Mr. DHS stops firing a big gun at you to compensate? Well, that's almost as good as disabling the weapon to begin with. Gimme my Infernos.

Maniac Actual

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 894
    • checkout my fantasy and SF writing
Yes, many modern mechs do ride the heat curve.  But unless your a crazy clanner with twice as many guns as heat sinks, the infernos will do little more than annoy you for a round while you cool down.  Yeah, you might be hot for one heat phase, but I've never seen a mech get truly ****** up by infernos - the 15 heat point cap pretty much prevents it.

Or mebbe I'm just smart enough not to readline any machine w/o TSM.   }:)
AS may be as much a representation of the Battletech universe as the original tabletop game is, but if you tell someone "I'm playing Battletech" chances are, if they know what that is, they're going to take you to mean the original tabletop game. - Steve Restless

A. Lurker

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4641
The trick with infernos vs. 'Mechs is to time them just right -- and of course not to use them exclusively either, because heat alone ultimately doesn't help you bring the thing down (unless it carries ammo and the pilot actively helps you push it over the "check for explosions now, plz" mark, anyway).

What heat-causing weapons can do for you, though, is inflict movement and to-hit penalties. (Maybe a shutdown roll once in a while, but unless the target 'Mech is already hurting or we're still playing in the single heat sink era I wouldn't count on it overmuch.) That's really what they're good for -- providing windows of opportunity for your 'real' guns to work your enemy over while his or her 'Mech staggers about with all the grace of a drunken boxer and its heat sinks are screaming for mercy. And if said enemy wises up and stops using enough weapons that even a full inferno bath doesn't significantly impact his or her heat level anymore, well, a weapon they're not using on you in the first place is almost as good as one they try to use and miss with. :)

Marwynn

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3984
I guess home rules won't cut it as a solution?

We allowed Streaks to fire standard SRM ammo, but without the Streak advantages. Also, for ease of logistics we handwaved Artemis SRM as the same as Streak SRMs. The only difference would be the launchers themselves.

No need to penalize people for wanting to use the different SRM munitions.

Crunch

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1107
Standard SRMs. If nothing else you get multi role capability against BA, Infantry and Armor with infernos. And at advanced rules level you can add Heat Seeking, Acid, ARAD, Mag Pulse, Smoke, Tandem Charge, Mine Clearance, Tear Gas and Harpoon munitions. The flexibility is just too much to give up.
Quote
It's really, it's a very, very beautiful poem to giant monsters. Giant monsters versus giant robots.
G. Del Toro

guardiandashi

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4828
I have (in the past) handwaved streak enabled missiles and launchers as an advanced munition and/ a specialized firecontrol upgrade for the launchers...  which means that potentually you could fire streak missiles from a standard launcher but they would only function as standard munitions, or you could fire standard missiles from a streak launcher

bakija

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 705
Streaks.  Always Streaks.  By the time the appear in cannon, 95% of mechs have DHS.  Thus, infernos have little effect vs. mechs.

Uh, what?

Yeah, mechs have DHS when you can get streaks, but mechs with DHS are generally armed up to the limit of their DHS. If you have 10xDHS and are armed with 2xPPC and, well, move, you have used up your DHS capacity. If someone hits you with 4-8 infernos on a given turn, that is 8-15 extra heat stacked on. Which means not firing one or both PPCs on the following turn.

DHS don't make infernos have little effect. If you have a mech that can sink 30 heat? It is going to be armed with guns that generate (more or less) 30 heat. Infernos still mean something doesn't get shot. Yeah, if the mech stands still and fires very little on a cooling turn, the DHS mean that the excess heat vanishes quicker, but the initial inferno hit still means that much stuff isn't getting fired on the next turn.


whistler

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 857
  • We can out-maneuver /most/ fortifications
in my experience, Infernos aren't worth it.  i've always thought of them as only worthwhile against vehicles, and we have one very famous local example of eight Infernos failing to do diddly-squat against a 20-ton hovercraft.  if i would have just used standard SRMs i would have crippled or outright destroyed the tank.

so with Infernos out of the picture, we are back at the Standard vs Streak SRM debate.  for me it comes down to the mech the weapons are mounted on.  i use a ton of TSM-powered mechs, and on these machines Standard launchers are the way to go.  however, in almost all cases i want Streak racks.  with modern designs the question now seems to be MMLs vs. Streaks.  i love the extra utility of MMLs, and as long as you aren't starving through crits they are the only real competition against streaks.  you have a choice between 7 possible SRM or LRM hits vs. 6 guaranteed SRM hits and no wasted ammo.

now THAT is a conundrum.
Quote from: 3rdCrucisLancers
Whistler is not only a noted winner, he's a man's man, a generous philanthropist, a noted big game hunter, and a lover and a dancer. If he had a mustache it would be impeccably waxed. When he marches off to war, everyone else stays home.

wundergoat

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 335
In my experience, versus mechs you really want to have 2 tons of ammo if you want to use infernos: one for the infernos, one for standard SRMs.  Its the flexibility that really helps them in the metagame.  The ability to cause a massive heat spike while also being able to cause damage puts your opponent in a position with difficult decisions to make.  If they hold back fire fearing the infernos, you can cause damage.  If they don't hold back, they might find themselves with movement and targeting penalties for the next turn PLUS being overheated PLUS having to make the same decision again.  They can even be used defensively: if you want an enemy mech to shoot less, declare an inferno attack early to dissuade them from firing a full load.

Really, infernos vs mechs are defensive in nature and having standard ammo lets you be offensive too.

lucho

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 782
  • say hello to my new friend!
As stated before, this isn't an either/or choice. Both are useful; don't let anyone tell you that you can't crit a vehicle into immobility with Streaks, or that standard SRM launchers must load infernos. NARC rounds are fun too  }:)
If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat?

Fireangel

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3402
  • 7397 posts right down the toilet...
When playing Inner Sphere there is no range boost and you can't use alternate munitions, so Streaks are somewhat less attractive.

And don't forget weight. Streaks suck up more tonnage than plain vanilla launchers.

IMHO they both work well hand-in-hand. Infernos are not the only special munitions for SRMs. They are also cheaper and more readily available. Great for vehicles, where heat is not an issue.

Fallen_Raven

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3719
If I'm IS, I prefer SRMs loaded with a variety of evil (just the words Tandem Charge cause enough fear to change the battlefeild) and hopefully some backup guns or armor loaded with the weight savings

If I'm Clan, Streaks. The range advantage is all the value I need under Zellbrigen, and the heat and ammo effeciency helps out too.
Subtlety is for those who lack a bigger gun.

The Battletech Forums: The best friends you'll ever fire high-powered weaponry at.-JadeHellbringer


Maniac Actual

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 894
    • checkout my fantasy and SF writing
Uh, what?

Yeah, mechs have DHS when you can get streaks, but mechs with DHS are generally armed up to the limit of their DHS. If you have 10xDHS and are armed with 2xPPC and, well, move, you have used up your DHS capacity. If someone hits you with 4-8 infernos on a given turn, that is 8-15 extra heat stacked on. Which means not firing one or both PPCs on the following turn.

DHS don't make infernos have little effect. If you have a mech that can sink 30 heat? It is going to be armed with guns that generate (more or less) 30 heat. Infernos still mean something doesn't get shot. Yeah, if the mech stands still and fires very little on a cooling turn, the DHS mean that the excess heat vanishes quicker, but the initial inferno hit still means that much stuff isn't getting fired on the next turn.
Yes.  Generally speaking, you're right, except for one fact:  infernos don't kill mechs.

It's that simple.  You get me hot for a turn with your infernos.  I cool down for a turn.  In the meantime, you've wasted all that fire without doing me any damage.  Or, put  anther way, I fire 2 out of 3 turns and damage you 2 out of 3 turns.  Where as you fire every turn - and do me no damage.  That's the key.  Throw in the fact that you have to hit with your inferno's and the situation is even worse (YEs, I know I have to hit, too, but whenmy streaks hit, they are pure crit-seeking damage.
AS may be as much a representation of the Battletech universe as the original tabletop game is, but if you tell someone "I'm playing Battletech" chances are, if they know what that is, they're going to take you to mean the original tabletop game. - Steve Restless

Maniac Actual

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 894
    • checkout my fantasy and SF writing
in my experience, Infernos aren't worth it.  i've always thought of them as only worthwhile against vehicles, and we have one very famous local example of eight Infernos failing to do diddly-squat against a 20-ton hovercraft.  if i would have just used standard SRMs i would have crippled or outright destroyed the tank.
Thank you for making my point exactly.  :)
AS may be as much a representation of the Battletech universe as the original tabletop game is, but if you tell someone "I'm playing Battletech" chances are, if they know what that is, they're going to take you to mean the original tabletop game. - Steve Restless

Sartris

  • Codex Conditor
  • BattleTech Volunteer
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 19858
  • Cap’n-Generalissimost
    • Master Unit List
Yes.  Generally speaking, you're right, except for one fact:  infernos don't kill mechs.

It's that simple.  You get me hot for a turn with your infernos.  I cool down for a turn.  In the meantime, you've wasted all that fire without doing me any damage.  Or, put  anther way, I fire 2 out of 3 turns and damage you 2 out of 3 turns.  Where as you fire every turn - and do me no damage.  That's the key.  Throw in the fact that you have to hit with your inferno's and the situation is even worse (YEs, I know I have to hit, too, but whenmy streaks hit, they are pure crit-seeking damage.

You make an assumption of a duel... And that the inferno-packing mech has no other weapons (or at least any weapons that cause significant damage).  And that it's inferno vs streak in a fight. The subtle slowdown caused by 10 points of heat on an energy boat every turn have a profound effect on a game.   I'm not saying i'd take infernos in every case, but to dismiss them out of hand because they do no damage is rather silly

Ask a Wraith or awesome what 10 points does to their heat curve. 
« Last Edit: 26 September 2011, 22:10:23 by Sartris »

You bought the box set and are ready to expand your bt experience. Now what? | Modern Sourcebook Index | FASA Sourcebook Index | Print on Demand Index
Equipment Reference Cards | DIY Pilot Cards | PaperTech Mech and Vehicle Counters

Quote
Interviewer: Since you’ve stopped making art, how do you spend your time?
Paul Chan Breathers: Oh, I’m a breather. I’m a respirateur. Isn’t that enough?

Dread Moores

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2201
After the infantry changes in TW? I'll take SRMs every time, especially since I can get the extra ton of ammo for the same weight as most of the Streak racks. That flexibility is really important.

Lyran Archer

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 884
  • pre-3050: ARC-2R / post-3050: ARC-5W
I really like using my 2S Archers because each one has two SRM 4s and those eight SRMs as Infernos are just plain deadly to a lot of 'Mechs in the 3025 era. Even post-Clan Invasion, that many Infernos can fry Elementals, other BattleArmor, vehicles, ProtoMechs, infantry in buildings, infantry in the open, etc.

Yeah, I like Infernos. 
LCAF German Expeditionary Militia Kampfgruppe Panzerfaust: 1 Overlord class DropShip, 1 Fortress class DropShip, 2 AeroSpace Fighters, 4 BattleMech Companies, 1 Vehicle Company, 1 Infantry Battalion
Motto: STAND (behind a hill) AND DELIVER (indirectly via spotter)!

Ferrosol

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 228
Yes.  Generally speaking, you're right, except for one fact:  infernos don't kill mechs.

It's that simple.  You get me hot for a turn with your infernos.  I cool down for a turn.  In the meantime, you've wasted all that fire without doing me any damage.  Or, put  anther way, I fire 2 out of 3 turns and damage you 2 out of 3 turns.  Where as you fire every turn - and do me no damage.  That's the key.  Throw in the fact that you have to hit with your inferno's and the situation is even worse (YEs, I know I have to hit, too, but whenmy streaks hit, they are pure crit-seeking damage.

tell that to the dire wolf S my mml trebuchet caused to overheat and shut down; subsequently losing its head to a few ml shots...

Devens

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 826
Standard if the mech has 2+ tons ammo.  Otherwise I would go Streak as I dont usualy go around with no regular ammo for an SRM.  Other factors such as "can it spare the extra Tonnage for a streak" also influence it as would the desire to get rid of a lot of ammo before taking internals. 

Inferno SRM6's make a wonderful anti-infantry weapon to boot also. 

Cybra

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 99
I'd be inclined to take standard SRMs with infernos. Why? More tactical options and, if the enemy isn't firing it's big gun at me, potentially increased survivability. As an example, I've got a mech on Solaris7 I called the Heavy Awesome. It packs 4 ER PPCs and the DHS to run, fire all 4 and remain at heat neutral. Hit it with 1 inferno missile, next turn it aint moving, hit it with 3 or more, reduce what's coming down-range by 25%. :-\

Yeah, the Heavy Awesome is made with clan tech, otherwise you run out of crits and/or weight. :'(

Fallen_Raven

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3719
I'd be inclined to take standard SRMs with infernos. Why? More tactical options and, if the enemy isn't firing it's big gun at me, potentially increased survivability. As an example, I've got a mech on Solaris7 I called the Heavy Awesome. It packs 4 ER PPCs and the DHS to run, fire all 4 and remain at heat neutral. Hit it with 1 inferno missile, next turn it aint moving, hit it with 3 or more, reduce what's coming down-range by 25%. :-\

Yeah, the Heavy Awesome is made with clan tech, otherwise you run out of crits and/or weight. :'(

Yeah, around here we call it a Hellstar.
Subtlety is for those who lack a bigger gun.

The Battletech Forums: The best friends you'll ever fire high-powered weaponry at.-JadeHellbringer


Hellraiser

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13122
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
This is one of the largest myths about DHS machines I see- that inferno rounds do nothing.
Its not a myth.
Its based on the old rules for Infernos.
They added 6 heat and against 10/20 designs that isn't alot and plenty of mechs had more than just the 10 DHS.
That said 15 heat from the new rules or plasma weapons is significantly better and does have a major effect.


It's that simple.  You get me hot for a turn with your infernos.  I cool down for a turn.  In the meantime, you've wasted all that fire without doing me any damage.  Or, put  anther way, I fire 2 out of 3 turns and damage you 2 out of 3 turns.  Where as you fire every turn - and do me no damage.  That's the key.  Throw in the fact that you have to hit with your inferno's and the situation is even worse (YEs, I know I have to hit, too, but whenmy streaks hit, they are pure crit-seeking damage.
The problem w/ that theory is you assume a unit has no added weapons.
And if you do enough heat to drop a PPC and only used the 4 heat from a single SRM6 then that is a net win for sure.
You also assume that its only going to last one turn.
Let a Wolverine-6M get in close on you and its going to tap you w/ Lasers every turn while keeping you at an average of +8 heat EVERY turn as it keeps firing them every turn as well.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

va_wanderer

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 585
Yes.  Generally speaking, you're right, except for one fact:  infernos don't kill mechs.

It's that simple.  You get me hot for a turn with your infernos.  I cool down for a turn.  In the meantime, you've wasted all that fire without doing me any damage.  Or, put  anther way, I fire 2 out of 3 turns and damage you 2 out of 3 turns.  Where as you fire every turn - and do me no damage.  That's the key.  Throw in the fact that you have to hit with your inferno's and the situation is even worse (YEs, I know I have to hit, too, but whenmy streaks hit, they are pure crit-seeking damage.

You have to lock-on with Streaks as well...and heat is defense, not offense.

Case in point- I had a Whitworth-S facing off against a Thug (yes, uneven as heck).

I waded in, spraying it with Infernos on the first salvo and heating it up badly enough to throw off it's movement and weapons fire. From then on in, I just mixed it up with standard shots and he had to play the guessing game.

If I fired inferno loads, he had better have not opened up with a full boat or else I'd get a free turn to pepper him with whatever while he dealt with the overload. If I fired standard rounds, he better have guessed correctly and used his normal loadout. If I fired standards and he didn't open up for fear of being broiled...advantage me. If I fired infernos and he full boated...advantage me again. And of course, sometimes I'd fire one of each, just to keep him honest.

And if he ignored the infernoes and kept fighting normally...well, I'd have enjoyed the BBQ while he pushed the poor thing to shutdown/explosion range on the second round of full-on brawling. I -have- seen DHS 'Mechs blow themselves sky-high like that, but this guy wasn't gonna let it happen.

A match where my little 40-tonner would have been crushed normally lasted far longer, with the Thug being tangled up the entire game trying to finish off the Whitworth- he did manage to blow an arm off and chew up the rest of the armor, but a dozen turns later of fighting at close range, I was still standing and that Thug looked like it'd been gnawed on by 'Mech-sized rats. If I'd gone straight damage, that Thug would have curbstomped me.

And besides, most people have something BESIDES the inferno rounds to throw at the opponent.

(The heat mind-screw game is even more fun with plasma rifles, but those give you the best of both worlds, damage AND heat.)

Kovax

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2421
  • Taking over the Universe one mapsheet at a time
Depends entirely on the likely opponent.  If you're facing a bunch of older 10 SHS 'Mech designs and vehicles, the Infernos are worth their weight in gold.  Against a bunch of Clanners or avanced IS Mech designs with DHS, I'd gladly take the Streaks.

partyon

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 17
I'm not bothered when other players use Streak Inferno SRMs.  I wouldn't use them because a few standard InSRMs I'm good at using as defense against conventional vehicles.
Let's have parties forever!

Fireangel

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3402
  • 7397 posts right down the toilet...
I'm not bothered when other players use Streak Inferno SRMs.  I wouldn't use them because a few standard InSRMs I'm good at using as defense against conventional vehicles.

No such animal as streak infernos anymore. In older rulesets, infernos were limited to SRM-2 and Streak SRM-2 launchers (and SRM infantry), but it made no sense to restrict them based on launcher size, so streaks were taken out of the equation.

Hellraiser

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13122
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
No such animal as streak infernos anymore. In older rulesets, infernos were limited to SRM-2 and Streak SRM-2 launchers (and SRM infantry), but it made no sense to restrict them based on launcher size, so streaks were taken out of the equation.
Infernos in Streak launchers was just a common house rule wasn't it ?
I don't recall it ever actually being legal.
Infernos being restricted to just SRM-2's was long before Streaks were even in the game.
I don't recall the 2 eras ever overlapping myself.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Fireangel

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3402
  • 7397 posts right down the toilet...
Infernos in Streak launchers was just a common house rule wasn't it ?
I don't recall it ever actually being legal.
Infernos being restricted to just SRM-2's was long before Streaks were even in the game.
I don't recall the 2 eras ever overlapping myself.

IIRC; In 1990's BattleTech Compendium (BTC), Infernos came in four flavours: SRM-2, Streak SRM-2 (the ONLY streak launcher available), Inferno SRM infantry and 10-point Inferno Bombs for fighters.

Book is in storage and chances are I'll not be able to get to it until some time next month.

martian

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8344
Standard SRMs for me.
  • I appreciate I can use variety of different warheads, some of them really useful.
  • I know exactly what my heat build-up will be.
  • I can empty my SRMs ammo bin as fast as I wish and I don't spend game with a bomb waiting to be critted.

vergaul

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 62
Streak.  I find close range batteries to be somewhat of a secondary concern in a period with so many long-range high lethality weapons.  SRMs not deployed en masse are, at best, clean-up weapons against most combat mechs.  Any talk of taking regular SRMs with two tons of ammo to take advantage of tactical flexibility is already devoting too much tonnage and risk of explosion to a weapon that won't likely see general use.  I spend most of my time playing with regular pilots, who already have enough trouble hitting targets on a mobile battlefield with -9 hex weapons.  When they do hit, I want them to hit with everything.

FASAnomics annoys me too much to even try to evaluate on the basis of C-Bill cost. 

A. Lurker

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4641
Any talk of taking regular SRMs with two tons of ammo to take advantage of tactical flexibility is already devoting too much tonnage and risk of explosion to a weapon that won't likely see general use.

Of course, Streak launchers being heavier and all, you'll likely end up investing that tonnage anyway. An Inner Sphere Streak-4 rack without ammo weighs just as much as a standard four-tube launcher plus its first 25 shots, after all.

But then, judging from the rest of your post, you'd probably be happier without SRMs of either stripe in the first place...

Dread Moores

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2201
Actually, I just thought of something else that really decides it for me. Is this a single SRM rack or more than one? If there's more than one, it's infernos every time. They really come into their own when you've more than one rack available (particularly, if you have the ammo to have regular SRMs and infernos). You burn through the ammo quickly, and get some very effective results. If it's a single rack, I'm a little more likely to look towards Streaks.

A. Lurker

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4641
Actually, I just thought of something else that really decides it for me. Is this a single SRM rack or more than one? If there's more than one, it's infernos every time. They really come into their own when you've more than one rack available (particularly, if you have the ammo to have regular SRMs and infernos). You burn through the ammo quickly, and get some very effective results. If it's a single rack, I'm a little more likely to look towards Streaks.

Hmm, true. Standard launchers recommend themselves more for massed fire because you can bring that many more tubes (and/or ammo) to the party for the same weight, while Streaks may work better as the kind of system you throw in (together with a token one-ton bin) to round out the rest of your arsenal.

Those are general tendencies, mind. I've certainly built enough designs going against them, too. :)

Hellraiser

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13122
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Streaks work best on battlemechs as secondary weapons for crit seeking.....  something like PPC+Streak.
They also work well as Class-A/B/C refits for mechs that can't get ahold of DHS since they do save heat.

I don't use them on Vehicles, fighters, or mechs where SRMs are the primary weapon.
I would say that for "fluff" someone once mentioned that are great for urbanmechs & other city defense areas since missed shots will not cause collateral damage.  I have a 3050 era refit for the urbie that uses 7x STK2 & SPL.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

guardiandashi

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4828
I guess it also depends on the intended purpose

example I had a Dashi config (under the old s7 boxed set dueling rules) that on 1 arm i stuck 5 srm4 streaks and 1 ton of ammo because the clan srm4's had a delay of 1 and the streaks had a delay of 0 so I could (if they all locked) unload that ton of ammo in 5 rounds but they would only fire when locked so no wasted ammo

Fireangel

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3402
  • 7397 posts right down the toilet...
I will say that for many designs, swapping 1xSRM-6 plus one ton of ammo for 2xStreak SRM-2 is a good choice; same weight, same number of crits, same heat (assuming both streak racks fire), average damage per turn remains basically the same (average cluster roll for SRM-6 is 4 missiles), you get two rolls to hit (so your chance of hitting with at least two missiles actually goes up), you get more shots per ton even if both streaks fire every turn and there is better survivability (one crit will kill an SRM-6, but only take out one of the two streaks).

Of course, this precludes infernos or other specialty ammo, but for general fighting, it's hard to beat.

 

Register