The age old question: Keep inferno capability or upgrade to streak SRMs?

[Sartris]

Yes.  Generally speaking, you're right, except for one fact:  infernos don't kill mechs.

It's that simple.  You get me hot for a turn with your infernos.  I cool down for a turn.  In the meantime, you've wasted all that fire without doing me any damage.  Or, put  anther way, I fire 2 out of 3 turns and damage you 2 out of 3 turns.  Where as you fire every turn - and do me no damage.  That's the key.  Throw in the fact that you have to hit with your inferno's and the situation is even worse (YEs, I know I have to hit, too, but whenmy streaks hit, they are pure crit-seeking damage.

You make an assumption of a duel... And that the inferno-packing mech has no other weapons (or at least any weapons that cause significant damage).  And that it's inferno vs streak in a fight. The subtle slowdown caused by 10 points of heat on an energy boat every turn have a profound effect on a game.   I'm not saying i'd take infernos in every case, but to dismiss them out of hand because they do no damage is rather silly

Ask a Wraith or awesome what 10 points does to their heat curve. 

[Dread Moores]

After the infantry changes in TW? I'll take SRMs every time, especially since I can get the extra ton of ammo for the same weight as most of the Streak racks. That flexibility is really important.

[Lyran Archer]

I really like using my 2S Archers because each one has two SRM 4s and those eight SRMs as Infernos are just plain deadly to a lot of 'Mechs in the 3025 era. Even post-Clan Invasion, that many Infernos can fry Elementals, other BattleArmor, vehicles, ProtoMechs, infantry in buildings, infantry in the open, etc.

Yeah, I like Infernos. 

[Ferrosol]

Yes.  Generally speaking, you're right, except for one fact:  infernos don't kill mechs.

It's that simple.  You get me hot for a turn with your infernos.  I cool down for a turn.  In the meantime, you've wasted all that fire without doing me any damage.  Or, put  anther way, I fire 2 out of 3 turns and damage you 2 out of 3 turns.  Where as you fire every turn - and do me no damage.  That's the key.  Throw in the fact that you have to hit with your inferno's and the situation is even worse (YEs, I know I have to hit, too, but whenmy streaks hit, they are pure crit-seeking damage.

tell that to the dire wolf S my mml trebuchet caused to overheat and shut down; subsequently losing its head to a few ml shots...

[Devens]

Standard if the mech has 2+ tons ammo.  Otherwise I would go Streak as I dont usualy go around with no regular ammo for an SRM.  Other factors such as "can it spare the extra Tonnage for a streak" also influence it as would the desire to get rid of a lot of ammo before taking internals. 

Inferno SRM6's make a wonderful anti-infantry weapon to boot also. 

[Cybra]

I'd be inclined to take standard SRMs with infernos. Why? More tactical options and, if the enemy isn't firing it's big gun at me, potentially increased survivability. As an example, I've got a mech on Solaris7 I called the Heavy Awesome. It packs 4 ER PPCs and the DHS to run, fire all 4 and remain at heat neutral. Hit it with 1 inferno missile, next turn it aint moving, hit it with 3 or more, reduce what's coming down-range by 25%. :-\

Yeah, the Heavy Awesome is made with clan tech, otherwise you run out of crits and/or weight. :'(

[Fallen_Raven]

I'd be inclined to take standard SRMs with infernos. Why? More tactical options and, if the enemy isn't firing it's big gun at me, potentially increased survivability. As an example, I've got a mech on Solaris7 I called the Heavy Awesome. It packs 4 ER PPCs and the DHS to run, fire all 4 and remain at heat neutral. Hit it with 1 inferno missile, next turn it aint moving, hit it with 3 or more, reduce what's coming down-range by 25%. :-\

Yeah, the Heavy Awesome is made with clan tech, otherwise you run out of crits and/or weight. :'(

Yeah, around here we call it a Hellstar.

[Hellraiser]

This is one of the largest myths about DHS machines I see- that inferno rounds do nothing.

Its not a myth.
Its based on the old rules for Infernos.
They added 6 heat and against 10/20 designs that isn't alot and plenty of mechs had more than just the 10 DHS.
That said 15 heat from the new rules or plasma weapons is significantly better and does have a major effect.

It's that simple.  You get me hot for a turn with your infernos.  I cool down for a turn.  In the meantime, you've wasted all that fire without doing me any damage.  Or, put  anther way, I fire 2 out of 3 turns and damage you 2 out of 3 turns.  Where as you fire every turn - and do me no damage.  That's the key.  Throw in the fact that you have to hit with your inferno's and the situation is even worse (YEs, I know I have to hit, too, but whenmy streaks hit, they are pure crit-seeking damage.

The problem w/ that theory is you assume a unit has no added weapons.
And if you do enough heat to drop a PPC and only used the 4 heat from a single SRM6 then that is a net win for sure.
You also assume that its only going to last one turn.
Let a Wolverine-6M get in close on you and its going to tap you w/ Lasers every turn while keeping you at an average of +8 heat EVERY turn as it keeps firing them every turn as well.

[va_wanderer]

Yes.  Generally speaking, you're right, except for one fact:  infernos don't kill mechs.

It's that simple.  You get me hot for a turn with your infernos.  I cool down for a turn.  In the meantime, you've wasted all that fire without doing me any damage.  Or, put  anther way, I fire 2 out of 3 turns and damage you 2 out of 3 turns.  Where as you fire every turn - and do me no damage.  That's the key.  Throw in the fact that you have to hit with your inferno's and the situation is even worse (YEs, I know I have to hit, too, but whenmy streaks hit, they are pure crit-seeking damage.

You have to lock-on with Streaks as well...and heat is defense, not offense.

Case in point- I had a Whitworth-S facing off against a Thug (yes, uneven as heck).

I waded in, spraying it with Infernos on the first salvo and heating it up badly enough to throw off it's movement and weapons fire. From then on in, I just mixed it up with standard shots and he had to play the guessing game.

If I fired inferno loads, he had better have not opened up with a full boat or else I'd get a free turn to pepper him with whatever while he dealt with the overload. If I fired standard rounds, he better have guessed correctly and used his normal loadout. If I fired standards and he didn't open up for fear of being broiled...advantage me. If I fired infernos and he full boated...advantage me again. And of course, sometimes I'd fire one of each, just to keep him honest.

And if he ignored the infernoes and kept fighting normally...well, I'd have enjoyed the BBQ while he pushed the poor thing to shutdown/explosion range on the second round of full-on brawling. I -have- seen DHS 'Mechs blow themselves sky-high like that, but this guy wasn't gonna let it happen.

A match where my little 40-tonner would have been crushed normally lasted far longer, with the Thug being tangled up the entire game trying to finish off the Whitworth- he did manage to blow an arm off and chew up the rest of the armor, but a dozen turns later of fighting at close range, I was still standing and that Thug looked like it'd been gnawed on by 'Mech-sized rats. If I'd gone straight damage, that Thug would have curbstomped me.

And besides, most people have something BESIDES the inferno rounds to throw at the opponent.

(The heat mind-screw game is even more fun with plasma rifles, but those give you the best of both worlds, damage AND heat.)

[Kovax]

Depends entirely on the likely opponent.  If you're facing a bunch of older 10 SHS 'Mech designs and vehicles, the Infernos are worth their weight in gold.  Against a bunch of Clanners or avanced IS Mech designs with DHS, I'd gladly take the Streaks.

[partyon]

I'm not bothered when other players use Streak Inferno SRMs.  I wouldn't use them because a few standard InSRMs I'm good at using as defense against conventional vehicles.

[Fireangel]

I'm not bothered when other players use Streak Inferno SRMs.  I wouldn't use them because a few standard InSRMs I'm good at using as defense against conventional vehicles.

No such animal as streak infernos anymore. In older rulesets, infernos were limited to SRM-2 and Streak SRM-2 launchers (and SRM infantry), but it made no sense to restrict them based on launcher size, so streaks were taken out of the equation.

[Hellraiser]

No such animal as streak infernos anymore. In older rulesets, infernos were limited to SRM-2 and Streak SRM-2 launchers (and SRM infantry), but it made no sense to restrict them based on launcher size, so streaks were taken out of the equation.

Infernos in Streak launchers was just a common house rule wasn't it ?
I don't recall it ever actually being legal.
Infernos being restricted to just SRM-2's was long before Streaks were even in the game.
I don't recall the 2 eras ever overlapping myself.

[Fireangel]

Infernos in Streak launchers was just a common house rule wasn't it ?
I don't recall it ever actually being legal.
Infernos being restricted to just SRM-2's was long before Streaks were even in the game.
I don't recall the 2 eras ever overlapping myself.

IIRC; In 1990's BattleTech Compendium (BTC), Infernos came in four flavours: SRM-2, Streak SRM-2 (the ONLY streak launcher available), Inferno SRM infantry and 10-point Inferno Bombs for fighters.

Book is in storage and chances are I'll not be able to get to it until some time next month.

[martian]

Standard SRMs for me.

• I appreciate I can use variety of different warheads, some of them really useful.
• I know exactly what my heat build-up will be.
• I can empty my SRMs ammo bin as fast as I wish and I don't spend game with a bomb waiting to be critted.

[vergaul]

Streak.  I find close range batteries to be somewhat of a secondary concern in a period with so many long-range high lethality weapons.  SRMs not deployed en masse are, at best, clean-up weapons against most combat mechs.  Any talk of taking regular SRMs with two tons of ammo to take advantage of tactical flexibility is already devoting too much tonnage and risk of explosion to a weapon that won't likely see general use.  I spend most of my time playing with regular pilots, who already have enough trouble hitting targets on a mobile battlefield with -9 hex weapons.  When they do hit, I want them to hit with everything.

FASAnomics annoys me too much to even try to evaluate on the basis of C-Bill cost. 

[A. Lurker]

Any talk of taking regular SRMs with two tons of ammo to take advantage of tactical flexibility is already devoting too much tonnage and risk of explosion to a weapon that won't likely see general use.

Of course, Streak launchers being heavier and all, you'll likely end up investing that tonnage anyway. An Inner Sphere Streak-4 rack without ammo weighs just as much as a standard four-tube launcher plus its first 25 shots, after all.

But then, judging from the rest of your post, you'd probably be happier without SRMs of either stripe in the first place...

[Dread Moores]

Actually, I just thought of something else that really decides it for me. Is this a single SRM rack or more than one? If there's more than one, it's infernos every time. They really come into their own when you've more than one rack available (particularly, if you have the ammo to have regular SRMs and infernos). You burn through the ammo quickly, and get some very effective results. If it's a single rack, I'm a little more likely to look towards Streaks.

[A. Lurker]

Actually, I just thought of something else that really decides it for me. Is this a single SRM rack or more than one? If there's more than one, it's infernos every time. They really come into their own when you've more than one rack available (particularly, if you have the ammo to have regular SRMs and infernos). You burn through the ammo quickly, and get some very effective results. If it's a single rack, I'm a little more likely to look towards Streaks.

Hmm, true. Standard launchers recommend themselves more for massed fire because you can bring that many more tubes (and/or ammo) to the party for the same weight, while Streaks may work better as the kind of system you throw in (together with a token one-ton bin) to round out the rest of your arsenal.

Those are general tendencies, mind. I've certainly built enough designs going against them, too. :)

[Hellraiser]

Streaks work best on battlemechs as secondary weapons for crit seeking.....  something like PPC+Streak.
They also work well as Class-A/B/C refits for mechs that can't get ahold of DHS since they do save heat.

I don't use them on Vehicles, fighters, or mechs where SRMs are the primary weapon.
I would say that for "fluff" someone once mentioned that are great for urbanmechs & other city defense areas since missed shots will not cause collateral damage.  I have a 3050 era refit for the urbie that uses 7x STK2 & SPL.

[guardiandashi]

I guess it also depends on the intended purpose

example I had a Dashi config (under the old s7 boxed set dueling rules) that on 1 arm i stuck 5 srm4 streaks and 1 ton of ammo because the clan srm4's had a delay of 1 and the streaks had a delay of 0 so I could (if they all locked) unload that ton of ammo in 5 rounds but they would only fire when locked so no wasted ammo

[Fireangel]

I will say that for many designs, swapping 1xSRM-6 plus one ton of ammo for 2xStreak SRM-2 is a good choice; same weight, same number of crits, same heat (assuming both streak racks fire), average damage per turn remains basically the same (average cluster roll for SRM-6 is 4 missiles), you get two rolls to hit (so your chance of hitting with at least two missiles actually goes up), you get more shots per ton even if both streaks fire every turn and there is better survivability (one crit will kill an SRM-6, but only take out one of the two streaks).

Of course, this precludes infernos or other specialty ammo, but for general fighting, it's hard to beat.