MWO Black Hawk-KU

[martian]

The first IS Omnimech coming to MWO - the Black Hawk-KU.

Tonnage

• 60 Tons

Mechs

• BHKU-O(S) - Special Version
• BHKU-O - Standard Version
• BHKU-OX(S) - Special Version
• BHKU-OX - Standard Version
• 3 extra omnipods from other variants (1 for the right arm, 2 for the left arm)
• 4 Mech Bays

It will arrive in the April game patch.

[Sapphirus]

I know it ain't my job to post MWO announcements but still!  I'm hyped!

[martian]

I know it ain't my job to post MWO announcements but still!

Post whatever you wish. 

I'm hyped!

I am not. The Clan Black Hawk kinda sucks in MWO, so I am mildly interested if this IS heavy copycat will suck less.

[Cyc]

Okay so model wise the shots they've shown are really the existing Nova model with some bolt-ons, so similar to the "UrbanMech IIC"s Legends they released, but the post indicates they are considering others.

I guess if they stick to that logic they can easily bolt-on-ify the Cicada, Firestarter and Blackjack. But would be Veeeeeeery big bolt-ons to make a Vulture or Thor/Loki become an Avatar or Sunder IMO and the differences in body shape might make it hard to recreate Raptor or Owens that looks anything like the tabletop versions.

[BATTLEMASTER]

I am not. The Clan Black Hawk kinda sucks in MWO, so I am mildly interested if this IS heavy copycat will suck less.

Only the Prime is worth its salt, and I play it like I do on tabletop - attack and jump out.  It's made me a top scorer in many matches!

The Black Hawk-KU is low-hanging fruit and probably why it was chosen as the first IS omnimech in MWO - it's one of the most-direct copies of a Clan omnimech made by the Inner Sphere in canon, the other being the Battle Cobra.

[Wrangler]

MWO tends to improve things, so I think it will be interesting.

Getting IS OmniMech is interesting, but...does this mean this will be in MW5 Clans? (I mean in an expansion, I know ain't showing up during the invasion...)

Likely, this guy will be better put together.  I hope they do other OmniMechs like the Blackjack.  I do like Owens, but it's really support/scout but it's heatsink situation sucks.

[martian]

Okay so model wise the shots they've shown are really the existing Nova model with some bolt-ons, so similar to the "UrbanMech IIC"s Legends they released, but the post indicates they are considering others.

I guess if they stick to that logic they can easily bolt-on-ify the Cicada, Firestarter and Blackjack.

Reusing all those 'Mechs would be quite easy. Just as you said, add some cosmetic plates on Firestarter or Blackjack and you have Firestarter Omni and Blackjack II. No problem.

But would be Veeeeeeery big bolt-ons to make a Vulture or Thor/Loki become an Avatar or Sunder IMO and the differences in body shape might make it hard to recreate Raptor or Owens that looks anything like the tabletop versions.

I think that in the case of Avatar and Sunder PGI would go with all-new models. The difference would be probably too big. I also think that we will have to wait for some time to see them added.

[martian]

Only the Prime is worth its salt, and I play it like I do on tabletop - attack and jump out.  It's made me a top scorer in many matches!

The Black Hawk-KU is low-hanging fruit and probably why it was chosen as the first IS omnimech in MWO - it's one of the most-direct copies of a Clan omnimech made by the Inner Sphere in canon, the other being the Battle Cobra.

The problem is that with copying the Clan Black Hawk, you are also copying all it weaknesses: broad profile, low arms, etc. And on top of it you are adding IS weaknesses. 

MWO tends to improve things, so I think it will be interesting.

PGI can always slap some ridiculous quirks on it.

Getting IS OmniMech is interesting, but...does this mean this will be in MW5 Clans? (I mean in an expansion, I know ain't showing up during the invasion...)

I guess that any future expansion packs would depend on how successful the base game will be.

Likely, this guy will be better put together.  I hope they do other OmniMechs like the Blackjack.  I do like Owens, but it's really support/scout but it's heatsink situation sucks.

Strider is the same case.

[martian]

So it is as I expected: PGI is giving the upcoming Black Hawk-KU strong armor / structure quirks to boost its side torsos.

There were a few ideas internally on how to deal with the Black Hawk-KU having a locked XL, like many other IS Omnimechs. The cleanest solution in the end was to just give hefty survival quirks to the side torsos. We didn’t want to give it a unique engine type or make it like a clan XL since a change like that would have to be uniformly applied to any IS Omnimechs if we add more down the road, and that felt like a slippery slope when some are more susceptible to being XL checked than others.

I’m pretty confident the total health the BHKU will have in the STs will help compensate for the forced XL, but also keep in mind that this is also our first IS Omnimech. We may not get it right on the first try, but if the BHKU is lacking we’ll certainly buff it as soon as we can. My hope is that this goes well enough that we can look at more IS Omnis in the future.

Well, I guess that this solves it for possible future Avatar or Sunder OmniMechs.

[Wrangler]

It will be certainly be interest, I guess we have more IS OmniMechs coming I guess. I do think there other designs needed fill out stuff. Nice mix I mean, we could use couple OmniMechs here and there from IS.   However, majority of them are crappy until like 2nd Gens for IS comes out.

[martian]

It will be certainly be interest, I guess we have more IS OmniMechs coming I guess. I do think there other designs needed fill out stuff. Nice mix I mean, we could use couple OmniMechs here and there from IS.   However, majority of them are crappy until like 2nd Gens for IS comes out.

I guess that PGI will follow with not so crappy IS Omnis that can be created easily: Firestarter Omni, Blackjack II and Raptor.

Their models are in the game already.

You just add some irremovable bolt-ons and armor plates to bulk them out, just like they did with Black Hawk-KU (because they are heavier than their BattleMech predecessors) and you are good to go. They all have double heat sinks and their fixed extralight engines should not matter too much. After all, people usually run XLEs on them anyway.

[Wrangler]

waitwaitwait, the in game as in MWO? I've not ever seen a Raptor anything in the game.   

Sure Black Hawk and Firestarter are in the game, but their OmniMEch version supposed to be larger, bulkier and blockier.  I guess it doesn't matter what they look like, but you'd think they put more effort.   Raptor could pass what moded as Flea, but I'm not so sure.

[martian]

waitwaitwait, the in game as in MWO? I've not ever seen a Raptor anything in the game.   

Sure Black Hawk and Firestarter are in the game, but their OmniMEch version supposed to be larger, bulkier and blockier.  I guess it doesn't matter what they look like, but you'd think they put more effort.   Raptor could pass what moded as Flea, but I'm not so sure.

Yesterday I created this compound image. Click on the thumbnail to see the full-size picture, please:



You can see the Black Hawk (already in the game) and the Black Hawk-KU (to be added the next week).

As you can see, PGI added just one rectangular box on the side of the torso and one rectangular box on the top of the torso. Then they slapped three sets of pipes on the 'Mech. Adding a small box on the leg and adjusting the shape of the knee pad completed the job. Ninety-five percent of the new Black Hawk-KU is still the same old Black Hawk game model.

If you can do this with the Black Hawk, you can do the same with the Firestarter. You could just a few hoses on the 'Mech (see the Dark Age Firestarter), slap some cosmetic items on it and call it Firestarter II. Easy job.

The Blackjack II is more angular than the standard Blackjack, but again this is nothing what a few angular bolt-ons could not solve.

[martian]

So now we know what those survivability quirks are:

BHKU-O

• CT: +10 Structure
• RT/LT: +15 Structure, +7 Armor
• RA/LA: +15 Structure
• RL/LL: +5 Structure

Well, I have expected stronger side torso protection, but I guess that Cauldron think that this is enough.

[Cyc]

and already people bitching over lack of torso hardpoints. Makes me wonder if they will turn the only table-top config that does (Albert Benton's Jihad era one) into a Hero 'Mech.

[martian]

and already people bitching over lack of torso hardpoints.

Yeah.

However, it is possible that PGI creates such 'Mech sooner or later. After all, Crab "Florentine" is completely different from other Crab variants.

Makes me wonder if they will turn the only table-top config that does (Albert Benton's Jihad era one) into a Hero 'Mech.

We do not call them "Hero" 'Mechs anymore. Now they are "Legendary". 

[Cyc]

We do not call them "Hero" 'Mechs anymore. Now they are "Legendary". 

Lucky Charm event seems to qualify that once they go MC purchasable they become Heroes. And the Longbow just muddied the waters by having both :)

[martian]

Lucky Charm event seems to qualify that once they go MC purchasable they become Heroes. And the Longbow just muddied the waters by having both :)

I was joking. 

PGI announced a few weeks ago that it will be so.

I think that we are going to see some Legendary Hero Black Hawk-KU sooner or later.

[martian]

Now we know how PGI has solved the problem of BHKU-OX:

• C³ Slave has been replaced with Targeting Computer
• Coolant Pods were replaced double heat sinks and the 'Mech boosted with -5% heat quirk

[Wrangler]

I guess C3 not possible given this isn't team / faction game

[BATTLEMASTER]

I guess C3 not possible given this isn't team / faction game

I'm not sure how they could do C3 that wasn't redundant with how targets are shared across teammates now

[martian]

I guess C3 not possible given this isn't team / faction game

Well, if functional C³ networks were possible in a quarter century old game (i.e. MechWarrior 3), I would say that they should be possible in 2024 (i.e. MechWarrior Online).

I'm not sure how they could do C3 that wasn't redundant with how targets are shared across teammates now

I guess that there would be some ways: For example, extended range of weapons for a 'Mech that uses the spotter equipped with C³ Slave.

[Akamia]

So, my predictions were off by a little bit; I anticipated the heavier Black Hawk would be somewhat larger than the Nova, but it turns out they are exactly the same size. I suppose I should not be surprised by this.

Still don't have one myself, but I want one. I've seen them in the wild, and they seem to be holding their own; the added beef on their side torsos is definitely keeping them in the fight long enough to be useful. It was mildly amusing fighting them in my Nova Prime. lol

[martian]

So, my predictions were off by a little bit; I anticipated the heavier Black Hawk would be somewhat larger than the Nova, but it turns out they are exactly the same size. I suppose I should not be surprised by this.

I posted the size comparison image in my post#12.

Still don't have one myself, but I want one.

Do not forget to tell us, how the 'Mech works for you.

I've seen them in the wild, and they seem to be holding their own; the added beef on their side torsos is definitely keeping them in the fight long enough to be useful. It was mildly amusing fighting them in my Nova Prime. lol

Who did emerge victorious from the battle? The Clanner scum or the Inner Sphere filth? 

[Wrangler]

From the other day fighting, I haven't seen much of their ability to shine. Looks like a lot of people bought the thing though which is good for PGI.  I'm not so eager to grab it yet, essentially it's a Nova with a backpack and some bulky add-ons. I'm sure there's stuff baked into its quirks to make it a little different, but I'm kind of disappointed but given their budgetarian/programming staff shortages we should be grateful  we are getting anything.  I expected the Nova to be shorter than the Blackhawk, it really would need to be that way. Cuz I got the most impressions that KU was narrower and taller.  MWO does really do squat size Mechs too well.

[martian]

From the other day fighting, I haven't seen much of their ability to shine. Looks like a lot of people bought the thing though which is good for PGI.  I'm not so eager to grab it yet, essentially it's a Nova with a backpack and some bulky add-ons. I'm sure there's stuff baked into its quirks to make it a little different, but I'm kind of disappointed but given their budgetarian/programming staff shortages we should be grateful  we are getting anything.  I expected the Nova to be shorter than the Blackhawk, it really would need to be that way. Cuz I got the most impressions that KU was narrower and taller.  MWO does really do squat size Mechs too well.

I am on the fence. I own four Clan Black Hawks and even though they are not among my most favorite 'Mechs, I know how to use them, if I want to or need to. But I am just not sure if I am willing to spend twenty dollars on another four Black Hawks, even if they use Inner Sphere technology.

[Akamia]

Who did emerge victorious from the battle? The Clanner scum or the Inner Sphere filth? 

Results inconclusive. There were often other teammates to account for.

I'd love to see what happens in a one-on-one duel, though. lol

I suspect the Black Hawk-KU will win more often than not in that setting, if for no other reason than the Inner Sphere tech base has better dueling tools at its disposal these days (ironically enough) but I might be surprised that the matchup is more even than it looks. Despite the side torso quirks, an Inner Sphere XL is still an Inner Sphere XL, so that vulnerability might be an equalizer here.

[Wrangler]

I forgot how vulnerable MWO xl engine Mechs were. I seldomly use Mechs in close range combat with those engines.

[Akamia]

The uber quirks on the ballistic arms of the Black Hawk-KU allow for some rather insane DPS using ultra autocannons. This thing can probably kill you pretty fast before its XL becomes an issue. lol

[martian]

Results inconclusive. There were often other teammates to account for.

I'd love to see what happens in a one-on-one duel, though. lol

Nobody honors the sacred ritual of zellbrigen these days. 

I suspect the Black Hawk-KU will win more often than not in that setting, if for no other reason than the Inner Sphere tech base has better dueling tools at its disposal these days (ironically enough) but I might be surprised that the matchup is more even than it looks. Despite the side torso quirks, an Inner Sphere XL is still an Inner Sphere XL, so that vulnerability might be an equalizer here.

Well, the Black Hawk-KU is 60-tonner, and that means more armor and more internal structure. On the other hand, the Clan Omni runs Clan XLE and that is a serious advantage, even if the 'Mech itself sports less armor.