Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation

[DaveMac]

http://www.ejectionsite.com/f104seat.htm

[Fat Guy]

It's official. The USAF is buying at least 80, and as many as 144 F-15X Advanced Eagles. Able to carry up to 20 missiles, it will act as a missile truck for the 5th generation stealth types that have limited internal payload. It dovetails nicely with the two-stage extreme range AAM the US is developing.

[Colt Ward]

It dovetails nicely with the two-stage extreme range AAM the US is developing.

Phoenix 2.0 since the Tomcat is dead?  or maybe dusting off the sat-killer/warhead interceptor?

[Kidd]

I think more like taking the M out of AMRAAM.

Well they are legacy platforms but I'm sure they'll squeeze every inch of performance out of it, and the touted service life on those things are incredible. Theoretically we might all be dead before the last Eagle stops flying.

[HobbesHurlbut]

It's official. The USAF is buying at least 80, and as many as 144 F-15X Advanced Eagles. Able to carry up to 20 missiles, it will act as a missile truck for the 5th generation stealth types that have limited internal payload. It dovetails nicely with the two-stage extreme range AAM the US is developing.

Remind me of the Alpha and Beta VF fighter combination.

[Colt Ward]

Well they are legacy platforms but I'm sure they'll squeeze every inch of performance out of it, and the touted service life on those things are incredible. Theoretically we might all be dead before the last Eagle stops flying.

So, we found the B-52 version of fighters?

[grimlock1]

It's official. The USAF is buying at least 80, and as many as 144 F-15X Advanced Eagles. Able to carry up to 20 missiles, it will act as a missile truck for the 5th generation stealth types that have limited internal payload. It dovetails nicely with the two-stage extreme range AAM the US is developing.

Sooo is this C3 or C3i?

[ANS Kamas P81]

AIM-120D is the current new standard, finally in full production and giving an "over 86 miles" range that, I've heard, is actually well past 100.  There's a new toy that started getting funding for design and development in 2018, the LREW (Long Range Engagement Weapon) that, at the moment, is conceived of as a two-stage missile that can fit in an F-22's weapons bay.  It's actually not a bad idea - after you kick the booster, you can probably push your smaller, lighter second stage much faster since you're not dragging a lot of dead weight.  It'd be a nasty surprise for someone maneuvering to evade; all of a sudden the incoming shot goes from mach 4 to mach 6 (for example) and gets on you unexpectedly fast.

Wonder if they'll do something like a Starstreak, multiple A2A submunitions?  The brits seem to be enjoying the thing; maybe there's something to the capacity. 

[HobbesHurlbut]

AIM-120D is the current new standard, finally in full production and giving an "over 86 miles" range that, I've heard, is actually well past 100.  There's a new toy that started getting funding for design and development in 2018, the LREW (Long Range Engagement Weapon) that, at the moment, is conceived of as a two-stage missile that can fit in an F-22's weapons bay.  It's actually not a bad idea - after you kick the booster, you can probably push your smaller, lighter second stage much faster since you're not dragging a lot of dead weight.  It'd be a nasty surprise for someone maneuvering to evade; all of a sudden the incoming shot goes from mach 4 to mach 6 (for example) and gets on you unexpectedly fast.

Wonder if they'll do something like a Starstreak, multiple A2A submunitions?  The brits seem to be enjoying the thing; maybe there's something to the capacity.

Like I pointed out earlier. F-15X is the Veritech Beta Fighter and F35 (which it's supposed to compliment) is the Veritech Alpha Fighter. F-15X with 20 of the AIM-120D or other models. Wooof hello Macross Fighter Combat.

[Fat Guy]

They're actually going to make the second stage of the LREW in 2 different lengths. A shorter one to enable it to fit in the weapon bays of the 22s and 35s, and a longer one (with correspondingly longer range) for the missile trucks.

[Feenix74]

Wonder how long before they to figure out how to fit the longer range version of the LREW into and onto a B-52 (a proper missile truck 8) ) . . .

[ANS Kamas P81]

Nah, I wouldn't want those on a BUFF.  Even with the potential ranges of the LREW there's no way I'm tying mach 2.5 fighters down to a subsonic launch platform; having TOO many eggs in one basket that can be easily gone around is no bueno.  That said, sortieing a single BUFF is a lot cheaper than a fighter sweep, per-hour costs for a -52 and -22 are almost the same.

F-16s, on the other hand, less than a third the cost of either per flight-hour, but still.  (I like the Viper!)

[Kidd]

BUFF don't have the speed to make best use of AAMs. A B-1B perhaps...

[Feenix74]

I would happily go with a B-1B as a LREW missile truck for F-35s/F-22 in an offensive scenario (ie you are chasing the OPFOR) but in a defensive scenario (where the OPFOR are coming to you) then a BUFF circling behind the F-35/F-22 screen and providing the missile truck service could work as it would be able to provide lots of time on station.



MALD (Miniature Air-Launched Decoy) and MALD-J (Miniature Air-Launched Decoy Jammer) mounted on a B-52.

[hoosierhick]

Wonder how long before they to figure out how to fit the longer range version of the LREW into and onto a B-52 (a proper missile truck 8) ) . . .

That sounds familiar...

[grimlock1]

BUFF don't have the speed to make best use of AAMs. A B-1B perhaps...

Air speed of the launch platform can have a noticeable effect on the engagement envelope of a missile.

[Fat Guy]

It seems I was wrong about the F-15X carrying 20 missiles. The actual number is 22. It'll also have a 20,000 hour service life. 

With it's $27,000 per flight hour opreating cost, replacing F-15C/Ds with Xs would pay for itself in ten years.

[HobbesHurlbut]

It seems I was wrong about the F-15X carrying 20 missiles. The actual number is 22.

Macross Missile Spam anyone? I can't believe no one else have picked up how close this is to the Macross stuff? Or even Ace Combat?

[David CGB]

Macross Missile Spam anyone? I can't believe no one else have picked up how close this is to the Macross stuff? Or even Ace Combat?

life imitates art all the time

[Fat Guy]

Sooo is this C3 or C3i?

Nova CEWS, without limits on networked units.  ;)

[Sabelkatten]

Nova CEWS, without limits on networked units.  ;)

In practice it's probably more like TAG.

[I am Belch II]

So 22 missiles at once from one plane. The carrying capacity is its biggest asset. The f35 and stealth to bring down the air defense , the f15x to lay the hurt down.

[Kidd]

It seems I was wrong about the F-15X carrying 20 missiles. The actual number is 22. It'll also have a 20,000 hour service life. 

With it's $27,000 per flight hour opreating cost, replacing F-15C/Ds with Xs would pay for itself in ten years.

To be cautious, I'd say there's some fine print to be read about mid-life costs which isn't always included in these estimates

But yeah. 20,000 hours, if you run it just 200 hours a year it could theoretically keep flying for a century, and I bet some aficionado is going to do exactly that just like we do with WW2 Spits now

Not that we'll be around to see it  ;D

So 22 missiles at once from one plane. The carrying capacity is its biggest asset. The f35 and stealth to bring down the air defense , the f15x to lay the hurt down.

How fast slow does it go at 22 missiles though, that is a question. And how far.

[Sharpnel]

It will never a full load of 22 missiles. They would need space for external fuel pods.

[Feenix74]

Or aerial tanker support assigned.

[grimlock1]

It seems I was wrong about the F-15X carrying 20 missiles. The actual number is 22. It'll also have a 20,000 hour service life. 

With it's $27,000 per flight hour opreating cost, replacing F-15C/Ds with Xs would pay for itself in ten years.

20 missiles is still a lot of AAMs.  How many were fired in Desert Storm?
But lets sit and stink on this for a moment. F-15E has 1 pylon under each wing, 1 centerline, and 6 on either flank. So that's 15 potential places to put a missile. The wing hard points can mount 2 AAM's in addition to what looks like a fuel tank.  Assuming the -15X would also want to carry external tanks, this brings us to 17 hardpoints. Historically, only two AAMs are carried on the flank hardpoints because of length of the missile and concern that the fins might hit something as its separating from the aircraft, but with more compact missiles like the AIM-120C, maybe 4 missiles to a side. That brings down to 13. If they remove the AN/AAQ-13 Nav and AN/AAQ-14 pods, and install hardpoints instead, that brings us back to 15. This image, from a questionable source, suggests that Boeing has been kicking around the idea of adding an additional pylon to each wing.  If that's the case, this may not be hard.  With 8 on each wing, and 4 on the flanks, that's 20 right there.

[HobbesHurlbut]

20 missiles is still a lot of AAMs.  How many were fired in Desert Storm?
But lets sit and stink on this for a moment. F-15E has 1 pylon under each wing, 1 centerline, and 6 on either flank. So that's 15 potential places to put a missile. The wing hard points can mount 2 AAM's in addition to what looks like a fuel tank.  Assuming the -15X would also want to carry external tanks, this brings us to 17 hardpoints. Historically, only two AAMs are carried on the flank hardpoints because of length of the missile and concern that the fins might hit something as its separating from the aircraft, but with more compact missiles like the AIM-120C, maybe 4 missiles to a side. That brings down to 13. If they remove the AN/AAQ-13 Nav and AN/AAQ-14 pods, and install hardpoints instead, that brings us back to 15. This image, from a questionable source, suggests that Boeing has been kicking around the idea of adding an additional pylon to each wing.  If that's the case, this may not be hard.  With 8 on each wing, and 4 on the flanks, that's 20 right there.

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/26305/f-15x-will-come-in-two-variants-and-no-it-wont-cost-100m-per-copy yeah they're going with TWO pylons on each wing, as indicated by both proposals for F-15 Advanced and F-15X.

[hoosierhick]

From what I understand the F-15 has always had the ability to mount the other two wing pylons but they never used them for a reason I can't remember at the moment.  The F15SA and now the F-15X are the only ones actually using them.

[Kidd]

So pretty. So Battletech.

[Colt Ward]

I am sorry, did I hear the theme music for Airwolf starting?