Author Topic: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos  (Read 21062 times)

wantec

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‘Mech(ish) of the Week: Boreas


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Today ‘Mech of the Week ventures back into the barely explored realms of the QuadVee. Venturing deeper still we reach the beginnings of the special subset of Omni QuadVees. The Boreas, today’s highlighted unit, is remarkable in that it was the first QuadVee that was prototyped and put into testing, but it entered full production 4th, after the ones already covered here (insert link). This is likely due to the troubles of incorporating Omni technology on a QuadVee.

Before covering the unit stats, I want to cover the artwork for a bit. The Boreas’ dual cockpits are split, the gunner on the turret-like torso, while the pilot is located between the front legs. The fluff of the TRO entry (as well as the entries of the Cyllaros and Arion) describe this split cockpit as a hindrance to operations. I prefer the split cockpit design, it fits in a more tank-like style. This allows the pilot to focus on piloting and the gunner can swing around any direction to take on multiple targets (the rules allow up to 3 primary targets).

I lost track of where, but I read that the two cockpits have all the same controls, data readouts, and screens. The rules state that if one warrior is killed/knocked out the other can take over duties, but at a +2 to-hit for any rolls. While each warrior may be specialized in one set of controls, the split cockpits make more sense as to why each suffers that +2 penalty, at least for a missing gunner. In any case I think it gives the designs more appeal, rather than simply 2 cockpits stacked on top of each other.

Fitting a first of class design, the Boreas uses basic construction materials, standard armor, standard structure, and a standard fusion engine. In order to have a respectable amount of weapons tonnage, armor was limited to 11.5 tons, 85% of maximum, and laid out in a smart pattern, 8 (HD), 26/10 (CT), 21/7 (side torsos), 21 (legs). The last effort to save weight was limiting speed to 4/6, the same as the 15-ton heavier Harpagos. These sacrifices left 12 tons of pod tonnage, not much at first glance, but plenty for Clan weapons.

The Prime variant features an ERPPC, a Medium Pulse Laser, and a Streak SRM6 rack. Great choices all around, and I can see why it is the primary variant. A long range head-capping weapon, mid-range crit-seekers and even a weapon to help a little with fast harassers at mid-ranges as well. Using only the base 10 Laser Heat Sinks, a top speed alpha strike will barely cause it heat problems.

Now the A and B variants highlight some of the deficiencies of the HAG series. The A variant has a long HAG 20 with 2 tons of ammo. The B variant has a Streak LRM 20 with the same amount of ammo. The HAG has a bit longer range 1/2/4 hexes at S/M/L ranges. But the Streak LRMs will deliver full damage if they hit, while the HAG roles on the cluster table. The HAG will generate less heat when both units fire, but without any other weapons on either variant it doesn’t matter much.

I’m not fond of either variant, but if I had to pick it would be the B, at least it can guarantee it will deal full damage, even if the range is a little shorter. To whoever designed these variants, I wish something different had been done. Keep the A, it fits with the Horses’ development and love of the HAGs, but then do something different for the B that’s not as obvious of a comparison. Perhaps a Streak LRM 15 with some backup weapons and less ammo, or standard LRMs.

The C variant would have also been a good replacement for the B, it features an ATM12 rack with 3 tons of ammo and a pair of ER Medium Lasers. While the Boreas isn’t fast, the ATM rack allows it to plink at long range and hit for more as it closes. If it can close to HE ammo range, there’s a potential 50 points of damage waiting for someone. Not a bad combo for only 12 tons.

Moving on, last is the D variant, the first to need extra LHS. A pair of Heavy Large Lasers are the only weapons, with the rest of the tonnage going to heat sinks. While the extra LHS can’t handle the full weapons load, it’s enough to handle a fairly standard pattern fire, something most regular users of heavy lasers are familiar with. It’s not a bad variant, but usually with dual HLL ‘Mechs I wish for something more to add to it and this one is no different. Something like more speed, a longer range weapon, or more defensive equipment, it just doesn’t feel finished to me.

Overall, I think the Boreas is a good first try at a QuadVee Omni. As some rules questions of mine get answered and clarified we will all have a better understanding of how these new unique units work and we can better analyze and rate them. However, I can do a quick comparison between the 60-ton Omni Boreas and the 55-ton non-Omni Cyllaros. The Cyllaros is faster at 5/8, but it requires an XL engine. The Boreas is able to devote 1.5 tons more to weapons and equipment and it carries 40 points more armor, something that I think will be more and more valuable to prevent motive crits. The Cyllaros wants to close range with an enemy while most variants of the Boreas are happy to fight at long range. I can see the two of these QuadVees deployed together in a unit, each occupying different roles.



‘Mech(ish) of the Week: Notos


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Continuing the theme of the previous M(ish)otW, next we will be covering the last of the current canon QuadVees, the Notos. Appearing in XTRO: Republic III, the Notos is the first of what I would call Gen 2 of QuadVee design. Likely based on experiences with the previous 4 designs, the Notos seems to work in the best aspects of each into an impressive QuadVee design.

On the artwork front, the overall lines look more smooth, more defined than previous QuadVees, something that is also reflected in the fluff description. Despite the fluff saying the split cockpit design was poor for pilot coordination, the Notos keeps the split design found on the Boreas. It’s a style I like and think helps make QuadVees look more unique.

The similarities to the Boreas don’t end with just the cockpit layout, both designs are 60-ton Omnis. The pod tonnage is similar, 12 tons for the Boreas, 13 for the Notos, allowing it to do almost anything the Boreas can, just with a little extra. The base 10 Laser Heat Sinks are enough for most variants. Armor is increased over the Boreas up to 200 points, 92% of maximum.

Using an Endo Steel structure and an XL engine, the Notos bumps the speed up to 5/8 in ‘Mech mode. Why did I specify “’Mech mode”? Well that’s because it is the first QuadVee to feature wheeled vehicle mode instead of tracked. For 50% extra tonnage, a wheeled QuadVee increases the cruise MP by 1 and recalculates the flank speed. So the 5/8 Notos ‘Mech speed translates to 6/9 wheeled speed. It may not seem like a big deal, but at some speeds it may be cheaper than increasing the engine size (I don’t know yet, I have to run the numbers). Also, I’ve learned that in vehicle mode, a QuadVee gets the +1 MP for moving on pavement, meaning in urban settings a Notos can get up to 10MP in vehicle mode.

The Prime variant appears to be based on the Epona Prime hovertank. A handful of 5 Medium Pulse Lasers tied to a targeting computer make up the weapons package. The last ton is used on a supercharger, bumping the ‘Mech speed up to 5/8(10) and the vehicle speed to 6/9(12) with the option for 1MP more on pavement. With an alpha strike, movement heat is the only concern. For enemies that had grown used to the slow plodding QuadVees, a Notos Prime in vehicle mode must have been a shock. 

Now the A variant is essentially a copy of the Boreas A, keeping the HAG 20 and two tons of ammo. The only difference is the addition of two ER Small Lasers using the Notos’ extra ton. I really like this addition, giving it an extra pair of 5 point hits and something that isn’t dependent on ammo.

The B variant does what I wish the Boreas B had done to differentiate it from the A. Using standard missile racks the Notos B carries a pair of LRM15 racks each with two tons of ammo and a pair of ER Medium Lasers. Like the Prime an alpha strike only adds movement heat. This is a solid missile QuadVee and puts the Cyllaros to shame with double the missile load.

The C variant features a full electronics suite of ECM, Active Probe, and Light TAG. Along with it are a pair of Improved Heavy Medium Lasers, a pair of AP Gauss Rifles, and a trio of SRM6 racks. This is the only hot-running Notos variant, with a top speed alpha strike going +10 on the heat scale. Urban terrain will be the C’s friend, minimizing the 9 hex weapons limit and allowing it to hide and cool if needed.

Last is the D variant, the sniper of the group. A pair of ER Large Lasers tied to a targeting computer and extra LHS make a simple but deadly package. Combine that with the Notos’ speed and 360° turret, it can run around firing at long range all day with no heat gain.

Where the Boreas set out a good baseline for a first Omni QuadVee, the Notos steps it up a notch, taking almost everything and making it all a little better. It still makes sacrifices that similar 60-ton Quad ‘Mechs don’t, but this looks like a well designed QuadVee to me.
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #1 on: 10 November 2016, 19:20:59 »
Great article! The Noros intrigues me. Fan financing it anyone?

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #2 on: 10 November 2016, 20:01:29 »
The Notos is awesome

Nice article
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #3 on: 10 November 2016, 20:04:21 »
Great article! The Noros intrigues me. Fan financing it anyone?
Well the Notos does look great and we might get a new fan financing poll going soon, it will face a lot of competition  ;) . However it will make a fine addition to any CHH force. 
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #4 on: 10 November 2016, 21:37:55 »
This article really highlights one of the huge advantages that QuadVees have over comparable vehicles: they track heat.  Suddenly instead of taking potentially lethal damage and critical hits, they just gain a couple heat from an Inferno salvo.  Annoying, sure, but it's almost impossible to outright kill or even mission kill a QuadVee, and they'll still be shooting back.
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #5 on: 11 November 2016, 03:57:39 »
I love this article :) And like yourself the split cockpit look makes a lot more sense than a double rowed cockpit. It would be disorentating as all hell for the pilot to have to be looking another direction to the direction of travel as the turret slews around.   Design wise they are clearly a prototype and then an evolution, the Notos is a fearsome machine, and I bet it would be a horror to face in a city environment because it just transfo..converts into wheeled mode, hides behind level 1 buildings and zooms around.

The Boreas is a good prototype and i'm glad it remained in production.  I wonder if they'll replace the three standard designs or keep them in production as well.
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wantec

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #6 on: 11 November 2016, 07:57:06 »
I love this article :) And like yourself the split cockpit look makes a lot more sense than a double rowed cockpit. It would be disorentating as all hell for the pilot to have to be looking another direction to the direction of travel as the turret slews around.   Design wise they are clearly a prototype and then an evolution, the Notos is a fearsome machine, and I bet it would be a horror to face in a city environment because it just transfo..converts into wheeled mode, hides behind level 1 buildings and zooms around.

The Boreas is a good prototype and i'm glad it remained in production.  I wonder if they'll replace the three standard designs or keep them in production as well.
I'm thinking down the line to do a usage article for all of them and talk about keeping vs replacing designs, but I can give a few initial impressions. I think the first one to get discontinued would be the Cyllaros, not b/c it was the first, but b/c it's profile and usage can be so easily replaced and improved upon by the Notos. Until there's another heavy QuadVee, I don't see any reason to replace the Harpagos. It may not be optimized, but it's essentially a Carnivore that can change into a Quad 'Mech, and the Carnivore by itself is a great thing.

I have to think about it more, but I'm not so sure the lack of armor is as big of a deal on the Arion as I initially thought. If there was the tonnage to keep all the weapons and increase the armor or speed that would be great and I would love that. For a QuadVee, taking crits or losing a leg is brutal. Losing a leg cuts vehicle mode MPs in half, and without a lot of armor, losing a leg on a Light is quite easy. As it is, just plan for it to be a throw away unit that's likely to come back in pieces or not at all. With that in mind, then it's a better unit than I initially thought.


EDIT: hit reply before I was done.

For the Boreas and Notos, I think the two can easily work together, despite the same tonnages. Looking at the weapons packages, only the A variant of each is duplicated. The Boreas B is all LRMs, but as streaks you know no shot is wasted. The Notos B can deliver a much larger swarm of missiles, making them different enough for my tastes. My only request if I had to make changes would be to swap the D variants, to better match the Large Lasers to the speed of the QuadVee, ERs for the slow Boreas, Heavies for the faster Notos.
« Last Edit: 11 November 2016, 08:02:05 by wantec »
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #7 on: 11 November 2016, 08:12:43 »
I'd say they are all useful even if there is a bit of toe stepping on towards the top end.  I agree that the Cyllaros can be quite happily replaced by the Notos or Boreas which benifits from being modular even if some of its variants are not exactly the best (probably due to its prototype/testbed status).  Against these two the Cyllaros looks rather weak although it would probably be shuffled back to support Elementals as its quite potent against infantry and battle armour which the Notos and Boreas are not so great at.  It would also probably do well as a training vehicle as something tells me that getting use to Quadvee's will take some doing.

The Harpagos as you said is a walking Carnivore, and that's never a bad thing, sure its a bit ammo light and it could do with looking better instead of being a sky scraper slapped on a tracked chassis but again, early production stuff, the Horses then went all smooth and curvy with the Notos and Boreas, but otherwise, a pair of gauss rifles is nothing to snort at. 

In terms of speed the Notos is equal to the achingly fragile Arion but they are different beasties, as you said the Arion is a harasser, able to zip around and keep shooting at you with its ER large laser and sting you with SRM's if you get close.  And whilst its fragile the firepower is rather impressive, its like a Kit Fox.  It can punch above its weight and not survive the hate it recieves in kind.  Perhaps a Mk2 of it could be fitted with an XL engine and you up the speed to 7/11 if you can and keep it as a harasser.  We'll have to see what the Horses do, I have no idea if we'll see an assault Mech version (and I don't think there's a Mech making program that can make Quadvee's yet) but I honestly think that the Quadvee is not some niche unit that's built to troll with Zell but a perfectly viable, if quirky unit :)

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wantec

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #8 on: 11 November 2016, 09:42:49 »
...(and I don't think there's a Mech making program that can make Quadvee's yet)...
Anything that can design a Quad 'Mech can design a QuadVee, you just have to ignore all the normally open leg and head crit slots and leave 1 ton (for the extra cockpit) off plus 20% or 25% of the tonnage free depending on if you want tracked or wheeled.
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #9 on: 11 November 2016, 10:48:17 »
10/15%, not 20/25%, IIRC.


The Boreas is a bit eh.
But the Notos? Now that's more like, finally something that seems to really work.
Hopefully future QuadVees follow the Notos in being reasonably effective and interesting units.

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #10 on: 11 November 2016, 10:51:53 »
I'm looking forward to further diversification of motive systems.  Hover QuadVees, anyone?
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #11 on: 11 November 2016, 11:03:46 »
How about WiGE, or any naval movement?  :D

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #12 on: 11 November 2016, 11:19:30 »
10/15%, not 20/25%, IIRC.


The Boreas is a bit eh.
But the Notos? Now that's more like, finally something that seems to really work.
Hopefully future QuadVees follow the Notos in being reasonably effective and interesting units.

Tracks and wheels are also 10% tonnage, so it adds up to 20/25%.
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wantec

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #13 on: 11 November 2016, 11:24:45 »
10/15%, not 20/25%, IIRC.


The Boreas is a bit eh.
But the Notos? Now that's more like, finally something that seems to really work.
Hopefully future QuadVees follow the Notos in being reasonably effective and interesting units.
10%/15% for tracked/wheeled, plus another 10% for the conversion equipment.

How about WiGE, or any naval movement?  :D
Well in Quad mode it can use jump jets. Add a partial wing and you've got something that looks kinda like WiGE. Or go UMUs for (underwater) naval movement.
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #14 on: 11 November 2016, 12:15:58 »
Forgot the conversion equipment...

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #15 on: 11 November 2016, 13:44:34 »
How about WiGE, or any naval movement?  :D
I was going to say VTOL/WiGE, but that's more LAM territory.  AirMech mode already approximates WiGE movement, doesn't it?

A QuadVee that converts into a submarine would be pretty cool, though.
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #16 on: 11 November 2016, 14:00:42 »
What would sub mode give you that UMUs don't? Aside from some speed boosts, all I can think of is the ability to lose a level of height, and improved crush depth ratings.
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #17 on: 11 November 2016, 14:03:06 »

I would like to see an QuadVee-Hover  >:D
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #18 on: 11 November 2016, 14:53:07 »
What would sub mode give you that UMUs don't? Aside from some speed boosts, all I can think of is the ability to lose a level of height, and improved crush depth ratings.
Well, there you go, you listed some pretty good points.

Also, pretty good article.
The wheeled chassis sure makes the vehicle work better due to having no drawbacks given the optional mech mode.
... Why can't it use jets in vehicle mode?
I mean, actual vehicles have no such problem.
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #19 on: 11 November 2016, 14:56:51 »
great article, i have yet to use these too but i see the potential.  Notos can act as a quick reaction unit while the Boreas can be the tanker depending on which Configuration it is setup for.  I think only thing bad about the Notos is that it looses ability to go all-terrain like the other QuadVees can. Wheeled can't go into woods unfortunately.
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #20 on: 11 November 2016, 15:17:58 »
What would sub mode give you that UMUs don't? Aside from some speed boosts, all I can think of is the ability to lose a level of height, and improved crush depth ratings.
Hmm.  Good point.
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #21 on: 11 November 2016, 15:40:48 »
What would sub mode give you that UMUs don't? Aside from some speed boosts, all I can think of is the ability to lose a level of height, and improved crush depth ratings.

The speed boost seems totally worth it just by itself honestly.  I don't think there's a point at which it's cheaper in terms of tonnage instead of using UMUs, but it'd 100% unequivocally be less in the crit space requirement department.

Having a sub that could mount HarJel would also be pretty cool.
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #22 on: 11 November 2016, 15:52:11 »
One question about these two Quadvees. Why the Laser heatskins?  IIRC from their fluff a laser heatsink takes up less physical space in a mech's interior so that could be a good lore reason for them being fitted.  Or are the Horses going for the laser rave tank/mech's as a psychological factor?
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #23 on: 11 November 2016, 16:06:29 »
great article, i have yet to use these too but i see the potential.  Notos can act as a quick reaction unit while the Boreas can be the tanker depending on which Configuration it is setup for.  I think only thing bad about the Notos is that it looses ability to go all-terrain like the other QuadVees can. Wheeled can't go into woods unfortunately.
Or it could just walk into the woods and go prone.

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #24 on: 11 November 2016, 16:07:38 »
One question about these two Quadvees. Why the Laser heatskins?  IIRC from their fluff a laser heatsink takes up less physical space in a mech's interior so that could be a good lore reason for them being fitted.  Or are the Horses going for the laser rave tank/mech's as a psychological factor?

A meta-reason might be that laser sinks are technically a bit better than normal double sinks in gameplay. The bonus laser sinks has is that you need to run hotter to risk ammo explosion, while the penalty applies only if time of day rules are in play.
Heck, that might be enough to make them better in-universe overall, but they're rarer and more expensive due to them being relatively new to common production.

Not to mention, advanced unit type, lets equip it out with advanced tech.

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #25 on: 11 November 2016, 16:14:10 »
Quad mech/tanks that carry a portable rave with them.  Rule of cool, man.
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #26 on: 11 November 2016, 17:44:56 »
Having a sub that could mount HarJel would also be pretty cool.

You've convinced me right there. That alone makes it worth it.
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #27 on: 11 November 2016, 20:10:21 »
Not rain on anyone parade, but last time i checked Interstellar Operations said only Tracked and Wheeled modes of transportation can be used on QuadVees.  I'd love have more, like hover.  Superheavy Combat Vehicles can have hovercraft that big.  However, nothing else was said what else they could have.  Originally Field Manual 3145 (p.249) said QVs only could have Tracks.  Only with XTRO: Republic III and IO expanded it to Wheels.
UMU may not be worth it, thou it be nice to have that in there.


I think thou, as tech advances, a another Era Report/Field Manual for the future era comes out or TRO, additional rules/capacities can be added per era.  Maybe UMU, Hover, can be added.
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #28 on: 12 November 2016, 03:21:40 »
From memory Hovers don't need much engine to get some crazy speeds. Mechs require big engines. The toughness of a Mech with hover mobility could lead back into the craziness of pre TW hover tanks. It got nerfed for a reason.

Even without the toughness I see how you could use your hover system to crack 8/12 to burn into range. Crit your motive system out then fight as a 5/8 Mech.

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #29 on: 12 November 2016, 03:50:30 »
Quick question about transforming between modes. When you transform does it cost anything or does it kill all movement that turn to transform into a Mech or back into a vehicle and roll out?
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #30 on: 12 November 2016, 09:01:22 »
Tracks and wheels are also 10% tonnage, so it adds up to 20/25%.

Clearly 5% too much.
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #31 on: 12 November 2016, 18:23:07 »
One thing I'd like to note about the Boreas A and B.

The HAG 20 isn't an optimal choice, but it does have some advantages over the SLRM 20 in some situations.  First of all, there's the HAG's flak ability.  Second, there are a lot of defensive options vs missile weaponry available now, but there's nothing that reduces damage from Gauss weapons that doesn't also work on LRMs.  Assuming that you're going to see AMS, Reactive Armor, and Angel ECM regularly on a modern battlefield is a pretty safe bet.
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #32 on: 12 November 2016, 18:33:41 »
Reactive armor seems to be kinda rare :/

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #33 on: 12 November 2016, 18:38:03 »
Quick question about transforming between modes. When you transform does it cost anything or does it kill all movement that turn to transform into a Mech or back into a vehicle and roll out?
It costs 2MP plus 1MP per leg/foot/hip actuator crit, plus 1MP per crit to the tracks/wheels or conversion equipment.

So it's pretty easy to build up the conversion cost to the point it can't convert. The TRO entry for the Boreas says the Falcons captured one, but it wasn't able to convert.

One thing I'd like to note about the Boreas A and B.

The HAG 20 isn't an optimal choice, but it does have some advantages over the SLRM 20 in some situations.  First of all, there's the HAG's flak ability.  Second, there are a lot of defensive options vs missile weaponry available now, but there's nothing that reduces damage from Gauss weapons that doesn't also work on LRMs.  Assuming that you're going to see AMS, Reactive Armor, and Angel ECM regularly on a modern battlefield is a pretty safe bet.
Good points on the HAG. Although even against AMS its likely the SLRMs will do as much or more damage.

Reactive armor seems to be kinda rare :/
Not on Warwolfs, which the Horses could end up facing.
« Last Edit: 12 November 2016, 18:40:31 by wantec »
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #34 on: 12 November 2016, 18:56:05 »
There's also the Mongrel and Zeus X.  I'm not going to say that the HAG 20 is really superior in any situation, just that with the way that the metagame has shifted in the Dark Age there are times that it might be preferable.
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #35 on: 13 November 2016, 11:41:36 »
Clan LRMs in general are just extremely space-efficient, and streaks have the ammo saving going for them.
Still, yes, a HAG can easily pull it's weight in specific situations. Sadly, the BV doesn't really add up for the heavier versions.
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #36 on: 14 November 2016, 09:35:35 »
Quote
Using an Endo Steel structure and an XL engine, the Notos bumps the speed up to 5/8 in ‘Mech mode. Why did I specify “’Mech mode”? Well that’s because it is the first QuadVee to feature wheeled vehicle mode instead of tracked. For 50% extra tonnage, a wheeled QuadVee increases the cruise MP by 1 and recalculates the flank speed. So the 5/8 Notos ‘Mech speed translates to 6/9 wheeled speed. Also, I’ve learned that in vehicle mode, a QuadVee gets the +1 MP for moving on pavement, meaning in urban settings a Notos can get up to 10MP in vehicle mode.

Does this apply to wheeled vehicles as well or is it a Wheeled QuadVee only benefit?
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #37 on: 14 November 2016, 10:21:40 »
Does this apply to wheeled vehicles as well or is it a Wheeled QuadVee only benefit?
What benefit? The +1 MP for starting, staying, and ending a turn on pavement applies to all vehicles, TW, pg. 61, right column, last paragraph.

If you're talking about the +1 MP to cruise speed for wheeled mode, that's part of the QuadVee rules. Wheeled vehicles do get a bit of a speed bonus over tracked vehicles with the same (or similar) engine size. It's part of the combat vehicle construction rules, in the table taking up most of pg 100 of TechManual.


Clan LRMs in general are just extremely space-efficient, and streaks have the ammo saving going for them.
Still, yes, a HAG can easily pull it's weight in specific situations. Sadly, the BV doesn't really add up for the heavier versions.
Don't get me wrong, I love the two bigger HAGs, partly for that "big honkin' gun" effect. I realize there's inefficiencies in their design and I'm fine with that for the flavor of the game. I just wish units weren't designed where the faults of the HAGs compared to LRMs were so obvious.
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #38 on: 14 November 2016, 12:47:31 »
What benefit? The +1 MP for starting, staying, and ending a turn on pavement applies to all vehicles, TW, pg. 61, right column, last paragraph.

Yeah, that I was familiar with.

If you're talking about the +1 MP to cruise speed for wheeled mode, that's part of the QuadVee rules.

That was what I was questioning. I'm not familiar enough with the QuadVee rules yet. Thanks!
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #39 on: 14 November 2016, 13:25:13 »
From memory Hovers don't need much engine to get some crazy speeds. Mechs require big engines. The toughness of a Mech with hover mobility could lead back into the craziness of pre TW hover tanks. It got nerfed for a reason.

Even without the toughness I see how you could use your hover system to crack 8/12 to burn into range. Crit your motive system out then fight as a 5/8 Mech.

Of course it is a quadvee not a full vehicle. It might not get the same level engine to speed ratio of a full vehicle.

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #40 on: 15 November 2016, 02:42:48 »
Clan LRMs in general are just extremely space-efficient, and streaks have the ammo saving going for them.
Still, yes, a HAG can easily pull it's weight in specific situations. Sadly, the BV doesn't really add up for the heavier versions.

Of course HAGs are the MRMs or LGRs of Clan Hell's Horses. They have to have one.

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #41 on: 15 November 2016, 09:40:53 »
Can a QuadVee benefit from an Armored Motive System?
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #42 on: 15 November 2016, 11:16:24 »
Not really. QuadVees never take motive crits the way vehicles do, so Armored Motive wouldn't give any benefit. You want a similar effect, armor the crit slots in the legs.
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #43 on: 16 November 2016, 04:01:22 »
I realize there's inefficiencies in their design and I'm fine with that for the flavor of the game. I just wish units weren't designed where the faults of the HAGs compared to LRMs were so obvious.
Ah, well, I didn't even mean that. I mean how the bigger HAG's ammo costs more BV for the same total damage per ton, so that 2 20's are cheaper than a 40 for no apparent reason.
I can see HAGs be useful both for flavour and for actual usage; It's unfortunate this specific time because there's no heat concerns and no backup weapons, but on a unit 10 tons heavier it might not be as much of an issue.
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #44 on: 26 November 2016, 19:11:26 »
What actually happens if a QuadVee gets a critical hit in the tracks or wheels? It seems to affect conversion process but anything else?
I'm looking at IO but i can't find anything describing the effects.

I mean, logically this would reduce the vehicle mode MP but if it does, how big is the effect?

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #45 on: 26 November 2016, 19:45:40 »
It increases the MP cost to convert by 1 for every motive system/conversion equipment crit.  Otherwise, I don't think so.
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #46 on: 26 November 2016, 19:52:32 »
So, you're saying it is possible to shoot all tracks or wheels from a QuadVeeb it will keep on rolling as if nothing happened?

I'm starting to think i'll post a question to the questions forum...

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #47 on: 26 November 2016, 20:37:20 »
Basically.  Please keep in mind that "I don't think this makes sense" is a distinct concept from "the rules are missing something".
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #48 on: 26 November 2016, 20:43:13 »
Partial Wing hits reduce the bonus jump it grants and jump jet hits reduce jump radius, so there's partial precedent.

I'll post a question about it anyway just for clarifications sake. Never know when writers remember they forgot something...

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #49 on: 26 November 2016, 21:09:16 »
Actually, i found my answer... From wantec's question here: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=55261.0

Quote
4) Per the "Leg Destruction" rules on pg 122, TW under "Four-Legged 'Mechs" a quad that loses 1 leg gets a -1 walking MP replacing any actuator/hip penalties from that leg. When a QuadVee loses one leg, does that affect the vehicle mode MPs? How?
Quote
You're now missing a wheel/track. This is considered Heavy Motive Damage (TW p.193) so the vehicle loses half its Cruise MP rounded down. This will require Errata.
Thought there was something odd...

I expect this is of interest to QuadVee players.

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #50 on: 27 November 2016, 01:55:59 »
Can a QuadVee benefit from an Armored Motive System?
Not really. QuadVees never take motive crits the way vehicles do, so Armored Motive wouldn't give any benefit. You want a similar effect, armor the crit slots in the legs.
How about the fact that, as they aren't vehicles at all, they can't install the system?

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #51 on: 28 November 2016, 10:45:25 »
Not really. QuadVees never take motive crits the way vehicles do, so Armored Motive wouldn't give any benefit. You want a similar effect, armor the crit slots in the legs.

How about the fact that, as they aren't vehicles at all, they can't install the system?
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #52 on: 10 December 2016, 02:57:00 »
For all their pros and cons (which relaly just add flavour/character to the untis) these are what Quadvees are supposed to be. At least to me. Almost wouldn't mind seeing a hover version off these, but more wheeled would be just as interesting.

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #53 on: 07 January 2017, 11:26:56 »
Great write up, can't wait to be able to get some of these.

How about we forgo common sense entirely and embrace Horse madness and just pod mount the motion e systems. Swap em out depending on terrain and for repairs, proper Omni style.  :)

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #54 on: 19 February 2017, 09:24:26 »
Sorry for the minor Necro but I really really hope that they keep the cockpits divided in the future designs and art.  It just makes a LOT more sense.

With two crew you can have each one concentrate more fully on their job, and that really requires a split cockpit.  If you're the the pilot and you're say, hurtling along at 96kph trying to avoid running into a building or a row of abandoned hover-trucks the last thing you want is to suddenly have your entire point of view slew left or right as the gunner brings the turret/torso to bare on a target

With the pilot in the front of the Quadvee and the gunner in the torso/turret it just makes a LOT more sense than the double bubble in the torso.  The ONLY way I think it would work would be in a big assault. We've naturally no idea of the Horses are working on something bigger than the 75 tonner but lets assume they are (and do we have any way of making quadvee's with any mech making programmes at the moment? or is it trying to work it out on a quad chassis?)

Lets assume they make a 100 tonner but instead of putting the crew in the turret they put them in the forward hull with a kind of Hind/AH-64 esque layout with the turret above and behind.  The driver benefits from having a fixed position and if the gunner wants to slew around then give him or her a console/chair like they had on the Gunstar in The Last Starfighter.  The chair and all the controls for the gunner can slew and turn independently with a wide range of holo-displays etc to provide visuals whilst there's also of course fully integrated sensors.   This would probably work if you've got a big 100 ton chassis to work with.
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #55 on: 20 February 2017, 06:49:24 »
The Gunner on any design can probably just use a screen to aim. Not that I am disagreeing with you.
Regarding heavier Quadvees, I think there is a border at around 80 tons regarding efficiency, if the vehicle rules still hold sway with Quad Vees.
Namely, the wheeled tonnage border. Wheels just make way more sense to move in urban terrain and over highways, given you don't have the disadvantages when standing up.
I mean, what would the point be in a 100 ton tracked Quadvee?
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #56 on: 20 February 2017, 08:52:30 »
I mean, what would the point be in a 100 ton tracked Quadvee?
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #57 on: 20 February 2017, 09:22:50 »
Well i'd say they clearly like them, producing 5 different classes of them including a prototype thats gone into production as a regular unit whilst they are developing the next gen ones with the Notos.  And whilst there's probably efficiency issues (see Improved Jumpjets on anything over 80 tons) which might make a 100 tonner basically a bit crap (but then again so what, an over-optimized cheese fest is DULL).

You could probably slap a HAG-20 and two ER Large lasers on it and some supporting weapons and be done with it with an 80 tonner, but i'm not sure if there's any mech making programmes that can make Quadvee's at the mo to test it out.
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #58 on: 20 February 2017, 09:30:37 »
Edit: ninja'd. Yeh, Fluff over efficiency.
Act like Assault Tank, hit like a Assault Mech.   ^-^
Why not just build a regular Assault Mech, that acts like an Assault Mech and hits like an Assault Mech?  ???
I'm afraid the benefits of vehicle-ness elude me here. Then again, if tptb decide to create one, I probably wouldn't complain.

I'll probably withhold speculation, though. As seen with the Notos, the flexibility of quadvees really comes to the front when they notably gain, like with wheels and the correspondingly high roadspeed.
Heavier designs spend that much more total tonnage on conversion and the secondary drive train, I doubt it'd make much sense to try. Which probably means someone will.  ;D
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #59 on: 20 February 2017, 10:00:25 »
Quote
Why not just build a regular Assault Mech, that acts like an Assault Mech and hits like an Assault Mech?

Common sense! Pshaw! Flim-Flam! *waves hand dismissively*  :D

Where's the fun in common sense and rationality :p Hell if they can put IJJ's on a 85+ tonner and think that sacrificing 20 tons to leap 5 hexes is smart, then they can sure as hell slap make an assualt quadvee :p
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #60 on: 20 February 2017, 10:23:41 »
Edit: ninja'd. Yeh, Fluff over efficiency.Why not just build a regular Assault Mech, that acts like an Assault Mech and hits like an Assault Mech?  ???
I'm afraid the benefits of vehicle-ness elude me here. Then again, if tptb decide to create one, I probably wouldn't complain.

I'll probably withhold speculation, though. As seen with the Notos, the flexibility of quadvees really comes to the front when they notably gain, like with wheels and the correspondingly high roadspeed.
Heavier designs spend that much more total tonnage on conversion and the secondary drive train, I doubt it'd make much sense to try. Which probably means someone will.  ;D
For one thing, you can take a wheeled version of a QuadVee and transform and Roll out pretending your Optimus Prime!

The point of QuadVee (somewhat indirectly) was to fool Clan commanders bidding.  I don't know the costs associated with the construction of a QuadVee, so I don't know if building one is equally expensive as actual QuadMech.  However, they are durable and more accurate and come with spare pilot to get the thing back home when things go wrong.  I think Wheeled version is properly out luck if it's battlefield verses city.  It needs open terrain and can't use woods easily unless it converts to a Quad.
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marauder648

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #61 on: 20 February 2017, 10:57:35 »
Wasn't that one of the big things behind the quadvee development

"We bid two stars of 'Tanks'..."
"Why did you say it like that?"
"No reason..." *coughs*

But they also then filled out a bit of a niche that the horses saw them being useful in.
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sadlerbw

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #62 on: 20 February 2017, 11:05:05 »
I thought the secondary fluff reason was to help make better use of personnel that flushed out of the mechwarrior training programs. With less to worry about, they could have otherwise mediocre warriors focus on either JUST piloting, or JUST shooting, and not need to be great at both. It is still less people than a full-on tank crew, and the ride is a bit more survivable as well, so it's a more efficient way to use trained warriors...which is about the exact opposite of how BT started in 3025!

Maelwys

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #63 on: 20 February 2017, 14:06:30 »
I don't know if the point of QuadVees was to fool Clan commanders during bidding. It may have been a secondary effect they discovered after the completion of the QuadVee, but I don't think it was a concern that lead to the creation of the QuadVee. "We're going to create a new type of unit for the Battlefield." "Oh? What's its role?" "To fool people during bidding!"

Happy secondary effect, doubt it was a driving premise behind the creation of.

I suppose it could've been a personnel issue. An assault tank might need 6-7 crew (1 per 15 tons, IIRC from TM), but the QuadVee only needs 2. If you can get the QuadVee to be as effective as the vehicle its replacing, you're saving on personnel quite a bit, and with the ability to transform you might not be as limited when it comes to terrain.

It might be a stretch, but during the "Drawdown" of the Stone Era, trying to make use of personnel in such a way might have seemed like a good idea.

UnLimiTeD

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #64 on: 20 February 2017, 15:02:58 »
Then again, doesn't that also mean you're spending at least 20% of the weight of the units you do have on conversion equipment that requires trained technicians to maintain and repair?
I can see certain advantages in force composition, combat personell use, and both strategic and tactical movement, but I'm not quite sold on their logistics footprint.
Then again, no one really knows what all those people in the tanks are needed for, either.
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Maelwys

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #65 on: 20 February 2017, 19:10:56 »
I'm not saying its a great result, just that the "point" of designing the QuadVee might have been partially an attempt to reduce the number of crewmen needed for a vehicle, as well as an attempt to bring extra mobility to tanks.


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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #66 on: 21 February 2017, 01:59:23 »
And there's also the TankWarrior's to consider and we know the Horses were the driving force behind them, this gives them an avenue other than driving normal tanks.
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Empyrus

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #67 on: 21 February 2017, 08:02:47 »
TankWarrior project is for the QuadVees, without QuadVees, no TankWarriors. At least, that's how i remember things going.

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #68 on: 21 February 2017, 10:30:15 »
TankWarrior project is for the QuadVees, without QuadVees, no TankWarriors. At least, that's how i remember things going.

Makes sense to me, so the two projects go hand in hand, its a big investment in resources to just go "Lets test it...." so i'd not be surprised to see an assault coming at some point. 
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mbear

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #69 on: 21 February 2017, 12:55:43 »
Makes sense to me, so the two projects go hand in hand, its a big investment in resources to just go "Lets test it...." so i'd not be surprised to see an assault coming at some point.

How about a superheavy? Like a quadvee OmniMonitor?
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Maelwys

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #70 on: 21 February 2017, 14:12:52 »
TankWarrior project is for the QuadVees, without QuadVees, no TankWarriors. At least, that's how i remember things going.

The TankWarrior project started in the 3090's, while the QuadVee Prototype equipment dates to the 3130's. While its possible that the QuadVee project could have been around since the 3090's and was the impetus behind the TankWarrior project as well, the two don't seem to be intrinsically linked in anyway.

TankWarriors are mentioned in the QuadVee section of 3145, but just as possible crewmembers (Same as Mechwarriors), but again, the two projects don't seem to be linked in any specific way.

UnLimiTeD

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #71 on: 21 February 2017, 19:25:57 »
Ah, well, true, the advantage is certainly there; No matter what ground personell you have available, so long as it's not Infantry they can probably pilot the thing.
Internal politics wise, I think a "mech for tankwarriors" is indeed a powerful driving force, incomprehensible as it may be to outsiders.
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Jellico

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #72 on: 21 February 2017, 21:17:34 »
I guess it comes down to whether you view them as Mechs that change into strong tanks or tanks that change into weak Mechs.

If it is the latter QuadVees are certainly an improvement.

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #73 on: 21 February 2017, 22:22:57 »
Ah, well, true, the advantage is certainly there; No matter what ground personell you have available, so long as it's not Infantry they can probably pilot the thing.
Internal politics wise, I think a "mech for tankwarriors" is indeed a powerful driving force, incomprehensible as it may be to outsiders.

You don't even get that really. ATOW gives TankWarriors Field Aptitude in the Cavalry, and QuadVees seem to use the Piloting skill as the primary skill rather than driving. So you're better off with a MW for the main pilot, and anyone for the gunner really, atleast according to the IO rules. The QuadVees are just sort of in this odd place.

UnLimiTeD

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #74 on: 22 February 2017, 06:35:26 »
Ah, the rules. Same as the Grand Titan firing nukes, when none exist in the game for that calibre.
I would assume in vehicle mode it actually pilots somewhat like a tank. Of course, in mech mode it would not.
Speaking of which, I am not sold on the idea that those would actually make such great tanks. Yes, they have definite advantages, but all that left over weight easily eats up the savings on a heavier engine, on slower designs at least. As long as one does limit oneself to ammo-using weapons, heavy vehicles can carry vastly more firepower and armour than these things.
So going off a wild tangent based on my above analysis, QuadVees play to their strengths best by using a high rated engine, thereby A) reaching speeds where the extra movement on pavement/in wheeled mode would incur a significant cost as an engine upgrade, B) benefit compared to vehicles that pay extra tonnage for their engine, and C) allow room for the sinks required for the energy armament that vehicles can't easily have.
It seems to me this makes heavier Quad Vees unlikely, though an 80-ton wheeled assault would be possible.
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #75 on: 10 April 2018, 10:51:23 »
Necro'ing the thread a bit, but one thing I've noticed in looking at the Protomech Clamp system from Wantec's lovely article from 3 years ago (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,45757.0.html) is that the Notos would make a very good Protomech or BA carrier. (Technically the Boreas can do it too, but the Notos being a lot faster seems to make the Boreas more obsolete in this regard.) With the Horses love of combined arms, any one Notos can carry a full point of BA or up to two Protomechs with a combined 12 tons up to 12mp running speed in a city with the Supercharger used. Since QuadVees seem to be Second-line mechs, and with OmniMechs being even rarer, these would make great garrison transports. There aren't a lot of cannon Protomechs with Mag Clamps that aren't Society Protos, but 10 Notos can carry almost a full star of Protomechs into battle.

For the record, the Protomechs that I can find that the Horses could theoretically get that aren't straight up Z versions are the Minotaur P2 (at 9 tons), the Gorgon 5 (at 8 tons), and then the Cecerops 5 (at 3 tons that would probably have to be moved around by the Notos) and, funnily enough, any old Hobgoblins that the Horses still have.
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grimlock1

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #76 on: 11 April 2018, 13:59:43 »
Since QuadVees seem to be Second-line mechs, and with OmniMechs being even rarer, these would make great garrison transports.
That's an odd tidbit.  The transforming tech seems like a lot of resources for a Clan to throw at 2nd line stuff. 
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #77 on: 11 April 2018, 21:44:27 »
That's an odd tidbit.  The transforming tech seems like a lot of resources for a Clan to throw at 2nd line stuff.

Well it IS the Clans. Also the pilots themselves aren't the cream of the crop. They're probably on their 2nd or third chances. It raises moral, gives something that doesn't super break the bank, and gives a measure of pride to warriors who would normally not get it.
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #78 on: 12 April 2018, 06:42:59 »
Thing with the Hell's Horses, the Clan that made these QuadVees, they were breeding new type of warrior, Tankwarriors types.  Thing is, those guys were meant to work in teams, don't have normal Clan bias about needing work alone.  I don't know if this fluff from Field Manual will still hold now, or some remembers that this was thing introduced.
So you can have elite guys running  around in supertank with legs.  Only thing i'm not sure of it the Tankwarriors having been trained to use QuadVees or MechWarriors trained like cross trained closely work as team. There just no fluff anywhere that covers it.  :P
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glitterboy2098

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #79 on: 13 April 2018, 10:14:16 »
it is also worth noting that the Horses seem to view the quadvee's as 'vehicles' rather than mechs.. they use the vehicle organization of 2 to a point even. and the majority of the quadvee's are non-Omni models still. while the horses accept non-mech forces more than most clans, there is probably still a fair degree of the pro-omni-bias in their warrior caste.

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #80 on: 14 April 2018, 04:51:07 »
Very true Glitterboy but we know that the Horses have managed to also merge the two techs (quadvee and Omni) with the Notos and Boreas both of which are omnis. 

really the Quadvee program combines both the Tankwarrior program and the Quadvees themselves, and IIRC there was basically a political movement centred on the Tankwarriors who have started to form their own political block in the Horses Tourman. 

And whilst the Horses treat Quadvee's like a vehicle (IE a point has 2 etc as you rightly pointed out) This seems more like it was done purely to dick over people they fought in Trials.  A case of

"Oh we bid one Star of 'tanks'"
"Why did you make the hyphen marks with your fingers?"
"Oh..no reason...."

And suddenly those 10 tanks turn out to be 10 Mechs.
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Wrangler

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #81 on: 14 April 2018, 14:32:35 »
You realize some day a Star Commander of a star consisting of only Notos QuadVees will say "Hell's Horses, Transform and Rollout!"
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grimlock1

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #82 on: 15 April 2018, 09:28:53 »
You realize some day a Star Commander of a star consisting of only Notos QuadVees will say "Hell's Horses, Transform and Rollout!"
Do the Horses require that IS freeborns give up their surname to join?  Just in case there isn't a "Cullen" Bloodname.
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marauder648

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #83 on: 15 April 2018, 09:33:44 »
Well in my non-canon Phaeton I MAY have made a reference to Transformers, folks generally missed it though.

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=59166.0

See if you can spot it.
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #84 on: 15 April 2018, 09:42:03 »
I spotted it.  Was kinda head-on, I thought.
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