Author Topic: VotW Special Report: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love The WiGE  (Read 43241 times)

JadeHellbringer

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Before we begin, I should explain the article and why it exists. This VotW special is brought to you for a simple purpose- raise your hands, how many of you have used WiGE units in a game at all? OK, out of the very small number who raised their hands, how many have used them more than a handful of times? And out of the very few people with their hands raised… how many are lying? ;) Thing is, these are recently introduced units to our game, with very few models available to us even in 3145, and it’s high time we have a discussion about what these things are, and how to use them. So… here we are.

One more thing before we dive in. The author, in addition to being the usual author of the VotW column on these forums (among his other hats around here) is a graduate of Colorado Aerotech, where he studied aeronautics with a specialization in aviation electronics. Along the way, he developed a love of two things- speaking about himself in the third person, and wing-in-ground effect vehicles.  So the introduction of the Hiryo, and the rules to use it, were a very happy day in the author’s Battletech career, to say the least. The rules are actually pretty true to the concept, but they do take some getting used to, particularly for players who struggle with mobile battlefields. After you read this, hopefully that won’t be you anymore.

So… what the hell IS a WiGE? Glad you asked. Sit right down, my little friend, and I shall spin you a tale of rules, use, history, and… that… stuff.

It all started with a phenomenon known as ‘ground effect’, something that pilots know well- basically, as an airplane travels low to the ground (say, during landing), the ground stops wingtip vortices from forming- effectively, it forms a sort of cushion of air under the wing, and causes the aircraft’s lift and drag to be greatly reduced.  (And yes, I’m keeping this as simple as possible while still keeping it accurate- for more detailed discussions on this, you know what Google is.) Now, something to note- the lower the wing is to the surface, the better the effect works, so a high-winged design (like a Cessna 172, or… well, the Hiryo… won’t work as well as something with a low wing. Just how it is.

Something we see in this effect is that the cushion of air reduces drag and increases lift efficiency, which means the engines have to work far less to achieve the same level of performance that they would if they were higher up. The result is a craft with impressive speed for its power level compared to what you’d get from a more conventional airplane- assuming, of course, that you’ve built a craft designed solely for ground effect use and not an airplane.



KM-class ekranoplan, the 'Caspian Sea Monster'. Note the location of the engines behind the cockpit and in the tail, keeping them free of salt spray at speed

But who would build such a craft? The answer is a man by the name of Rostislav Alexeyev, who was fascinated by the concept (which he called an ‘ekranoplan’, a term which the author will use more often than WiGE, do try to keep up!). Alexyev was fascinated by the ground effect concept, and built prototype ekranoplans to try to sell to the Soviet military in the era following WWII. His most famous design became known to NATO as ‘The Caspian Sea Monster’, seen above- a massive craft, larger than most modern cargo planes, which scooted along the surface of the water at over 400 kph despite not being able to really fly higher than the waves if conditions were bad. The huge ‘KM’ was just the start- the Soviets experimented with assault craft, civilian ferrys, and even the ‘Lun’, seen below, an anti-ship missile platform intended to attack and destroy NATO forces in the event of the Cold War warming up.


Lun-class ekranoplan, showing its similarities to the KM, and its battery of P-20 Moskit anti-ship missiles on the spine. In the first shot, note the altitude above the water the craft maintains- that's what you're looking at for WiGE operations.

However, the concept never really caught on outside the Soviet Union, and even within it was a victim of politics and budgets. Alexeyev ended up being removed from his studies following the crash of the Sea Monster (after over 15 years of operation, mind you), and died in virtual anonymity- only in the post-Soviet era did his work begin gaining public recognition, though few of his ekranoplans operate today- those that do tend to be small craft intended to carry passengers.

So. That was fun. Now you know what a WiGE is, you have the basic idea of how one works, and you know the bare bones history behind the idea. Like I said, to keep this from going TOO long, I’m keeping things basic, but I do recommend looking around the internet for more detailed information if you find the idea as interesting as the author does. It’s a fascinating concept.

Now, a thousand-odd years in the future, the ekranoplan concept has made its return. The first sign of this was the Draconis Combine’s Hiryo design, which… honestly, would make for a terrible WiGE with its wing design, but we’ll ignore that for now. The Hiryo was the first time we’ve seen this concept in Battletech, and if you’re going to be first, be a GOOD first. The Hiryo definitely does that. Whether as an attack craft or as a battle armor taxi, the Hiryo was a great first effort, followed by Lyran efforts such as the Fensalir and Swallow, among others. There’s still less than half a dozen ekranoplan designs in the Battletech canon universe, but those that exist are all pretty good units when you factor in their rules.

So let’s discuss those rules. The first order of business is to open up Total Warfare. Go on, I’ll wait… hurry up, people are waiting… ok, all set? We need page 55. The basics are that a WiGE has a lot in common with a hovercraft. That’s not a surprise, really- when you get right down to it, a hovercraft is also moving around on a cushion of air, just created and utilized in a different fashion. A hovercraft relies on lift fans and skirts to create that cushion, while a WiGE uses its momentum and the lift created by its wings.  And here we run into one of the big differences between the two in terms of Battletech rules- because while a hovercraft’s lift system allows it to remain in one place, a WiGE has some trouble with that.

See, a WiGE has to always remain in motion- like I said, the movement of the craft creates the lift under the wings that create the cushion it rides upon. That means that if you stop moving, or even just slow down too much, you’ll lose that ability. (Airplanes have wing stalling, a similar issue when you slow down too much). So, a WiGE must maintain at least a five-hex movement per turn to remain in ‘flight’. If you don’t do that (or can’t), you’re going to be on the ground. If you’re on the ground, you can still move- you’re treated as a hovercraft with an MP of 1 (for all intents and purposes in terms of terrain restrictions). Transitioning between this grounded mode and flight is simple- if you have 5 MP, you can take off. If not, you can’t. If you want to land, that’s a free action, no MP needed. A WiGE, unlike a hovercraft, operates at an altitude of 1 when in flight- now, that’s an important distinction. At an altitude of 1 (as in, one level above the terrain), it IS subject to things like flak attacks the way a VTOL would be- so watch out for those Partisans!

That need to be constantly in motion is key here. It means that you have to be a bit careful on how you use a WiGE in ways that you don’t have to worry so much about with a similar unit like a hovercraft or VTOL. Planning your movement is very important- if your target is four hexes away from you, you can’t just move three and get up in its face, otherwise you’ll land (like it or not) at the end of the move. So, you’ll have to figure out a five-hex movement path that still allows you to make an attack. That’s five HEXES, not five MP- big distinction there, you can’t just spin a 360 in place. Now, that makes things interesting, doesn’t it? Think about things like minimum ranges for things like LRMs, or trying to stay out of range of a Hunchback’s AC-20. Not as easy as it looks in a hovercraft, is it? This is a whole different ballgame.

Of course, it’s not even as easy as THAT makes it sound. You have to worry about landing- only clear hexes can be used for landing a WiGE. So if you land- again, wanting to or not- in a hex that is anything else, you’re done for. Note that since you’re treated as a hovercraft, you can land in a clear hex and move INTO  another hex if you wish to (so long as you’re able to do that as a hovercraft), but not land in it. The exception is water- if you have a flotation hull (as the Swallow and Ryu do, for example), you can land in water. Worth noting- modern ekranoplan designs like the Lun do not have the ability to land anywhere BUT water, so this is an interesting turn- one that had to be made though for balance. After all, how often do you find that you don’t have water on a Battletech map at all? ;) Another thing to note is that since they travel at Lv. 1, they cannot enter woods hexes (which stand two levels above the terrain, of course) unless a road runs through the woods hex- then they cruise along the road under treetop level.

So, what you’re thinking at this point is probably “so it has all the disadvantages of a hovercraft, but has to always keep moving, like a crappy 31st century version of the bus from ‘Speed’.” And you’re not entirely wrong- WiGE units are HARD to use in a lot of situations. It may look simple- but give it a try and you find quickly that there’s a lot of limitations that make this VERY hard to do in some terrain choices.  However, there are advantages as well- because you’re moving above the terrain, you don’t have to pay for penalties in rubble or rough terrain, for example. Most WiGE units feature high speeds, very handy for slashing attacks on an enemy or for rapid delivery of infantry (“Oh god, where the hell did all these Void suits come from!?!?!?”) Players will note that these qualify for hovercraft as well, however, as well as VTOLs.

It gets worse though. Are you on that roadway in a woods hex? Tough, because you’re above the ground the rule states you can’t get that woods bonus to hit you. Crud. You’re always treated as though you’re in a clear hex one level above the ground, no matter the situation. Fortunately, you’ll always have a decent move modifier since you, you know, can’t stop moving (or anyway, SHOULDN’T).  And several designs, like the Fensalir, don’t really mind taking a few hits here and there- they’re pretty tough cookies. Of course, as with most vehicles, it’s not getting your armor shot through that kills you, it’s things like motive hits. And with that +4 modifier on the motive hit table… well, Swallows never once died in my testing from being blown apart in mid-flight, let’s just say that. Being left helpless on the ground due to their flight abilities being reduced below their needed MP will kill it far sooner.

So… Where are the advantages a WiGE has over other units? I won’t lie- there aren’t a lot of them. The rules say you can be dropped from within an atmosphere from a Dropship, which is rather handy. Of course, the very nature of a WiGE’s movement abilities mean that’s virtually impossible, but the rules say you can, so… yay rules. Do NOT try that with a hovercraft. (Or do, it’s kind of funny, particularly if you owe the driver some money).  But here’s the big advantage. Do you want to move up from Lv. 0 terrain to Lv. 1? Go for it. You don’t pay anything for altitude changes like a VTOL, or extra MP like you do in a hovercraft- you just GO. No penalty to change elevation other than the usual one MP to enter a hex. You are ALWAYS one level above the terrain, no matter what (so long as you’re in flight). But what if you go from Lv. 0 to Lv. 2? Well... you can't. Suck it.

Going back DOWN a level works the same, but if you go down multiple levels… maybe you want to keep some altitude? You can sort of glide down if you wish by using 2 additional MP- so if you drop from Lv. 4 to Lv. 0 (terrain levels), and you want to stay at that Lv. 5 altitude you were at, you can do that as long as you wish so long as you have the MP to do so. If you run out of MP, you’ll drop down to the new elevation level (well, a level above it) as normal.  That’s a pretty huge advantage over VTOLS or hovercraft- depending on the terrain, of course. In a wide-open Serengeti area, not so much. On an urban map, or something resembling Utah with its plateaus and lack of woods? YES. Plan accordingly.



An A-90 Orlyonok ekranoplan, showing its impressive cargo capacity. Note that this one is propeller-driven, unlike the previous examples- and unlike any Battletech equivalent.

There’s two basic types of WiGE- combat types, like the Fensalir and Hiryo, and transports like the enormous Ryu. (There’s also the oddball racing WiGEs from TRO: VA, but those are unlikely to be on your battlefield unless the race went horribly wrong) Using a transport WiGE is simple- dash in to where you need to be, land, drop off your cargo, and get the hell out of the area before someone has the wise idea of turning you into a target. Combat WiGEs are a little tricky, as I alluded to earlier, so you may have to play the long game in terms of finding a way to hit your target. Most of the time, the best bet is to make long, high-move-modifier dashes at a target, firing as you approach, then turn after you’ve passed and come back at the target from another angle, much the way an aerospace fighter would. Do NOT land unless you absolutely need to- a grounded WiGE is going to be lucky if an enemy ever lets it take off again.

This went long- would you believe this was the edited version with much of the history and science sections reduced greatly in size? Regardless, there’s some great WiGEs to use out there. Thanks to this primer, you know how they’re used, how they shouldn’t be used, the good and bad points, even a little about their background. So… why are you still here? Go run some ekranoplans, raise a glass to Mr. Aleksyev, and  return here with stories.

I’ll finish today, in fact, with one. A few years ago, the DC-area group ran a four-army battle of Luthien (Jihad edition), featuring the Combine and Nova Cats facing off against the Word and Word-backed mercenaries. Among the DC forces was a single Hiryo. It had a good time zipping around and shooting people, dropped off a load of some infantry or other at one point (I don’t remember what kind, I wasn’t running it)… well, at one point it came off a Lv.1 hill and declared a charge against a WoB Banshee. Because it was a level above the terrain when it cleared the hill, it was at Lv. 2- so the charge hit the BNC in the rear punch table. Surrounding Word of Blake forces must have been very surprised- and horrified- to see a WiGE emerge from the head of the Banshee- nearly every point of damage was to the head. The Hiryo survived, and even made it away to friendly lines for repairs- safe to say that crew never bought drinks again. ;)



Bartini-Beriev VVA-14 ekranoplan, abandoned, showing its unusual wing configuration- the cushion here is held in by the wing shape, increasing efficiency of the lift body. Due to poor engines, however, the craft failed to perform up to spec, and so its job of hunting NATO submarines was left to more conventional units. The stub wings have been removed- the wing root can still be seen high on the body towards the rear.

ADDENDUM:

This article, intended merely to shed light on a unit that needed it, has produced real changes to how WiGEs work, courtesy of our good friend Welsman's efforts! Effective immediately, these rules are now in effect:

+ WiGEs DO get the benefit of woods hexes that they are in, since they are below the level of the treetops. (This makes sense, since a two-level tall Battlemech gains that cover!) This does, of course, still require a road to be through the hex- otherwise the WiGE cannot exist in the hex with the trees and is destroyed, which makes the woods cover modifier fairly meaningless ;)

+ ALL WiGEs now have the flotation hull ability built into their bodies. This makes a lot of sense, based on how the Soviet units were created, and hopefully will make them a much more attractive option for water-heavy worlds.
« Last Edit: 05 May 2015, 21:43:29 by JadeHellbringer »
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Wrangler

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Aside from the Brava 2 Iran is making (2 man attack craft) there aren't many active WIGEs in the world today intended for combat of any? I've seen pictures of some civilian ones, including Boeing a design concept of a "Spruce Goose II" all but in name proposed.

I have couple questions; Sorry if they seem to be obvious answerable questions.

One my questions is; The WIGE's ability to fly across ground Hexes are purely a Battletech things right? True GEV can't fly over land, especially wooded hexes / trees and gain limited altitude.

My second question is; What is the best use of a WiGE?  Their good attack craft, but However craft can do it better and not risk crashing.  Transport for infantry and possible light vehicles be due ability thing? I know the civilian version is used for that.
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JadeHellbringer

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To answer:

1) Nope! Same as with a hovercraft, a WiGE doesn't actually touch the surface, so while it's more at home over water as a concept, it's just as happy to travel over relatively smooth terrain (in reality- of course in Battletech, hills are the WiGE's best friend). As long as the pilot compensates for the terrain changes, fly over whatever you damned well please. This makes assault ekranoplans like the A-90 above a really good idea for landing supplies and such to beachheads, serving a role similar to that of landing craft in more conventional operations.

2) Honestly, my love of the concept aside, they really are a niche unit that combine the worst aspects of VTOLs, hovercraft, and conventional fighters with only a few advantages. But, they're not without use. Slashing attacks, for example, are a great idea- fly in at high speed with your Hiryo or what have you, smash the target with a couple of PPC shots as you approach, and keep on going at full speed past the target, then approach from another direction (or hell, even just 180 and come at them from behind!). Lather, rinse, repeat. Landing troops is a bit trickier- obviously you're vulnerable on the ground, but thanks to a WiGE's ability to hop over obstacles with ease you should almost always be able to land that squad of battle armor in a place where you could set down safely to do so. (This ignores the big stuff like the Ryu, which should probably not be operating near the front lines in the first place if you can avoid it).

So they're not without utility... just, you know, once you really, REALLY get used to the unique handling properties. Is a hovercraft better for the job? Often, yes- but not always. In hills or urban areas, these can really shine.
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"You know, basically war is just, like, a bunch of people playing pranks on each other, but at the end they all die."
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mbear

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It sounds like WiGEs would be great on the Arkab worlds of the Draconis Combine, or Lackland in the Filtvelt Coalition. Lots of wide open deserts or oceans for moving around quickly without hitting any pesky terrain features.

One question though: A WiGE can go from level 1 to level 12 without any MP cost? That seems odd to me given that WiGEs need to remain at a low level to take advantage of the ground effect. I mean if an ekranoplan was to get too much altitude, wouldn't the compressed air underneath the wings be lost?

(But while I'm thinking of it, if I was to compare the hovercraft and WiGE to airborne combat units, the hovercraft would be a VTOL and the WiGE would be a conventional fighter, right? The hovercraft/VTOL uses rotors to beat the air into submission, while the WiGE/conventional works with the air's behavior.)
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Redshirt

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I know that JHB said that the real world concept of dropping WiGEs out of a Dropship is very iffy, but I love the idea of dropping conventional forces with your Mechs on a planet without the need to secure a Star port (yet).  For example, as theoretical a what if, instead of making it a jumping Hovertank, the Kanga had been a WiGE purposely designed to serve with the SLDF as a vehicle designed to drop with assault forces?

As for use and applications, its biggest I think is its ability to strike from a direction that the enemy isn't really expecting it to attack from. If you have a large battlefield that includes the Heavy Forest Map, WiGEs could be of some use with the ability to go over the trees and harass those jumpers who thought they were safe hiding in the woods.
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JadeHellbringer

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It sounds like WiGEs would be great on the Arkab worlds of the Draconis Combine, or Lackland in the Filtvelt Coalition. Lots of wide open deserts or oceans for moving around quickly without hitting any pesky terrain features.

One question though: A WiGE can go from level 1 to level 12 without any MP cost? That seems odd to me given that WiGEs need to remain at a low level to take advantage of the ground effect. I mean if an ekranoplan was to get too much altitude, wouldn't the compressed air underneath the wings be lost?

(But while I'm thinking of it, if I was to compare the hovercraft and WiGE to airborne combat units, the hovercraft would be a VTOL and the WiGE would be a conventional fighter, right? The hovercraft/VTOL uses rotors to beat the air into submission, while the WiGE/conventional works with the air's behavior.)

By the rules, yeah- by logic, sure, you're absolutely right, but as per the rules it always is one level above the terrain it's flying over- if that terrain jumps up by several levels suddenly, so does the WiGE. (Note that this made for a surprising result during my Swallow testing, when my attempts to fight a force including a couple of Swallows went pear-shaped on me in the Ishiyama maps on Megamek- oops)

You are correct though, a real ekranoplan would have some serious problems if it were to gain altitude- the whole idea is to ride the cushion of air created by the wing forcing air under itself and being compressed between the wing and the surface below (which is why water is so ideal for the concept). Suddenly jumping up four levels in Battletech is no big deal- for the real deal, like an A-90, that would be very, very concerning.

It's interesting how very, very different the actual concept and the Battletech version really are- one relies on smooth terrain, particularly water, and hugs the surface as much as possible, while the other thrives on bumpy terrain and can't go near water without special equipment to do so. I admit that made for some tough testing at times as I struggled with my pre-made notions on how the concept works versus what the writers settled on.

(Edited to show my reply to mbear, Redshirt posted while I was typing the response)

I know that JHB said that the real world concept of dropping WiGEs out of a Dropship is very iffy, but I love the idea of dropping conventional forces with your Mechs on a planet without the need to secure a Star port (yet).  For example, as theoretical a what if, instead of making it a jumping Hovertank, the Kanga had been a WiGE purposely designed to serve with the SLDF as a vehicle designed to drop with assault forces?

As for use and applications, its biggest I think is its ability to strike from a direction that the enemy isn't really expecting it to attack from. If you have a large battlefield that includes the Heavy Forest Map, WiGEs could be of some use with the ability to go over the trees and harass those jumpers who thought they were safe hiding in the woods.

You missed the problem with the WiGE. You can't fly through woods hexes unless there's a road in the hex as well. You fly at Lv. 1 above the terrain- woods stand Lv. 2- so if you fly through a woods hex, you crash. So while something like the swamp map would be ideal for a real WiGE, the Battletech version would view that as hell on earth- woods everywhere, and sideslipping IS a thing.
« Last Edit: 05 May 2015, 09:05:54 by JadeHellbringer »
"There's a difference between the soldier and his fight,
But the warrior knows the true meaning of his life."
+Larry and his Flask, 'Blood Drunk'+

"You know, basically war is just, like, a bunch of people playing pranks on each other, but at the end they all die."
+Crow T. Robot+

mbear

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One last question: Because WiGEs are always 1 level higher than the terrain I assume they're immune to minefields. Am I correct?

Edit: Thanks for the response JHB.
« Last Edit: 05 May 2015, 13:26:16 by mbear »
Be the Loremaster:

Battletech transport rules take a very feline approach to moving troops in a combat zone: If they fits, they ships.

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Redshirt

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You missed the problem with the WiGE. You can't fly through woods hexes unless there's a road in the hex as well. You fly at Lv. 1 above the terrain- woods stand Lv. 2- so if you fly through a woods hex, you crash. So while something like the swamp map would be ideal for a real WiGE, the Battletech version would view that as hell on earth- woods everywhere, and sideslipping IS a thing.


Oh. I thought that as long as it stayed one level above the terrain, it would be fine.
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JadeHellbringer

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Oh. I thought that as long as it stayed one level above the terrain, it would be fine.

They're one level above the terrain, but not the treetops. If a woods hex sits on a Lv. 2 hill, the WiGE would be at Lv.3- but the woods would poke up to Lv. 4, because they're two levels high. So your WiGE just became a treehouse. (again, unless a woods hex has a road through it, then you can travel along the roadway and be fine, but you do NOT gain the bonus defense modifier if someone shoots at you for being in the woods. Life sucks.)

One last question: Because WiGEs are always 1 level higher than the terrain I assume they're immune to minefields. Am I correct?

Near as I can tell, that is correct- a hovercraft moves at Lv. 0 and so it can touch off mines, but a WiGE would be a level above the mines, so it SHOULD be okay, near as I know. Not sure if that's exactly the case, or if Thunder-Active fields can still hit them- I'll find out and update the article once I know.

EDIT: And now I know, and so will you. First, Active minefields do NOT work against a WiGE- only against a jumping unit, so a flying unit like a WiGE or a low-flying VTOL won't trigger them. (Which is weird, but that's the rule). A flying WiGE won't light off other mines, either- and even on the ground, a WiGE only lights off a mine hex on a 12 if it's moving into the hex. If it's landing in the hex, roll as-normal for a vehicle entering the hex. (Which is interesting.)
« Last Edit: 05 May 2015, 09:47:49 by JadeHellbringer »
"There's a difference between the soldier and his fight,
But the warrior knows the true meaning of his life."
+Larry and his Flask, 'Blood Drunk'+

"You know, basically war is just, like, a bunch of people playing pranks on each other, but at the end they all die."
+Crow T. Robot+

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Nice pictures.

I recall that i went to read about WiGEs from Wikipedia after noticing Battletech has such. Wasn't surprised the concept was real, Battletech does have a lot of realistic things after all compared to many other scifi franchises.
Can't say i recall seeing WiGEs in any other fiction before. Also funny WiGEs (both real and BT ones) kind of resemble anti-gravity hovercraft many scifi works often have, functionally if not in looks.

I wonder what the first WiGE pilot thought when he was told he was going to fly an aircraft just barely above ground. Probably thought it was insane... It certainly does sound insane, flying an aircraft (or whatever it is) barely above ground/water with high speed.
« Last Edit: 05 May 2015, 10:05:20 by Empyrus »

GreekFire

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Excellent write-up! I've been waiting for this one.

By the rules, yeah- by logic, sure, you're absolutely right, but as per the rules it always is one level above the terrain it's flying over- if that terrain jumps up by several levels suddenly, so does the WiGE. (Note that this made for a surprising result during my Swallow testing, when my attempts to fight a force including a couple of Swallows went pear-shaped on me in the Ishiyama maps on Megamek- oops)

Hmm, I'm not sure about this. Just double checked in my copy of TW, and it says that WiGEs can only handle single elevation changes. WiGEs don't appear to be equipped with ways to go up larger elevation changes, so they become a bit restricted if they find themselves surrounded by canyon walls.
« Last Edit: 05 May 2015, 10:25:44 by GreekFire »
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JadeHellbringer

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Nice pictures.

I recall that i went to read about WiGEs from Wikipedia after noticing Battletech has such. Wasn't surprised the concept was real, Battletech does have a lot of realistic things after all compared to many other scifi franchises.
Can't say i recall seeing WiGEs in any other fiction before. Also funny WiGEs (both real and BT ones) kind of resemble anti-gravity hovercraft many scifi works often have, functionally if not in looks.

I wonder what the first WiGE pilot thought when he was told he was going to fly an aircraft just barely above ground. Probably thought it was insane... It certainly does sound insane, flying an aircraft (or whatever it is) barely above ground/water with high speed.

Honestly? With ground effect being such a well-known phenomenon, those pilots probably weren't as concerned as you'd think. Remember, it's just a floatplane cruising along at extremely low altitude- as long as he doesn't do something stupid like gain altitude, probably he would have been okay with the idea. (From all accounts, the Caspian Sea Monster's decade and a half-long career was a success overall, and was supposedly a surprisingly agile and easy to control ship.)

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Empyrus

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Honestly? With ground effect being such a well-known phenomenon, those pilots probably weren't as concerned as you'd think. Remember, it's just a floatplane cruising along at extremely low altitude- as long as he doesn't do something stupid like gain altitude, probably he would have been okay with the idea. (From all accounts, the Caspian Sea Monster's decade and a half-long career was a success overall, and was supposedly a surprisingly agile and easy to control ship.)

It is so much more to fun to think the pilot thought it'd be crazy :D

JadeHellbringer

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Excellent write-up! I've been waiting for this one.

Hmm, I'm not sure about this. Just double checked in my copy of TW, and it says that WiGEs can only handle single elevation changes. WiGEs don't appear to be equipped with ways to go up larger elevation changes, so they become a bit restricted if they find themselves surrounded by canyon walls.

Actually that was a mistake from testing, and I've updated the article accordingly (my article writing goes through phases, updating as I learn and modify the original document, and that's a mistake that slipped through from early on.) Sorry about that!
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JadeHellbringer

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It is so much more to fun to think the pilot thought it'd be crazy :D

When you consider some of the other weird stuff the Soviet Union's aircraft industry came up with- a topic for another thread, but suffice to say there's no shortage of weirdness- a craft relying on ground effect looks pretty tame, in the end. No paratroopers without parachutes, flying tanks, canopy-less spy planes, manually-aimed tail guns on bombers post-WWII... just a well-known phenomenon pilots have used for years.  ^-^
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Wrangler

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What would happen if a WiGE entered area occupied by infantry?  It won't effect them, no damage due to downward force of wing effect zooming by right?

Some later WiGE designs i noticed talk about Battle Armor infantry being dropped off through shoots from under WiGE while in flight.  From what I've read here, this is not possible and WiGE must be landed to discharge it's passenges, right?
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Empyrus

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When you consider some of the other weird stuff the Soviet Union's aircraft industry came up with- a topic for another thread, but suffice to say there's no shortage of weirdness- a craft relying on ground effect looks pretty tame, in the end. No paratroopers without parachutes, flying tanks, canopy-less spy planes, manually-aimed tail guns on bombers post-WWII... just a well-known phenomenon pilots have used for years.  ^-^
Yeah, i recall reading they had all sorts of odd stuff going on, and not just things related to aircraft development.

Kind of matches well to stuff done in Battletech... maybe?

GreekFire

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Actually that was a mistake from testing, and I've updated the article accordingly (my article writing goes through phases, updating as I learn and modify the original document, and that's a mistake that slipped through from early on.) Sorry about that!

S'no problem! I'd been brushing up on all the WiGE rules for the Svartalfa write-up anyway, so it was fresh in my mind.
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False Son

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Hmm, I'm not sure about this. Just double checked in my copy of TW, and it says that WiGEs can only handle single elevation changes. WiGEs don't appear to be equipped with ways to go up larger elevation changes, so they become a bit restricted if they find themselves surrounded by canyon walls.

Yes, but if that WiGE found itself at the top of that canyon it could, with enough MP, Wiley Coyote it's way to the other side.

Some later WiGE designs i noticed talk about Battle Armor infantry being dropped off through shoots from under WiGE while in flight.  From what I've read here, this is not possible and WiGE must be landed to discharge it's passenges, right?

Unless those battle armor have jump jets, in which case they can deploy while the WiGE is airborne.
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UnLimiTeD

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holy...  #P

I've read up extensively on WiGE some years ago, probably in response to seeing them in BT, and it's a fascinating concept.
Looking forward to the first one with Stealth Armour, it might actually, you know, be useful.  :D
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JadeHellbringer

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Yes, but if that WiGE found itself at the top of that canyon it could, with enough MP, Wiley Coyote it's way to the other side.

Evel Knievel would have been totally emo over the WiGE.
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wantec

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They're one level above the terrain, but not the treetops. If a woods hex sits on a Lv. 2 hill, the WiGE would be at Lv.3- but the woods would poke up to Lv. 4, because they're two levels high. So your WiGE just became a treehouse. (again, unless a woods hex has a road through it, then you can travel along the roadway and be fine, but you do NOT gain the bonus defense modifier if someone shoots at you for being in the woods. Life sucks.)
This seems might be a good rules question, but I think the way it works, a WiGE would get the benefits from intervening woods hexes (remembering the WiGE is one level above the hex it's in), but not from a woods hex it was in.

Per pg 199 of TW
Quote
To-Hit Modifiers
Because a WiGE vehicle flies above terrain, it does not benefit from woods modifiers for the hex it occupies while in flight.
There it says "the hex it occupies" nothing about nearby hexes. So fly into a hex, have 3 light woods between you and your enemy and everybody, everything at level 0 and your WiGE is safe.
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Alexander Knight

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Actually a WiGE could overfly a woods hex.  He'd just have to ramp up off a nearby hill first.  (Level 2 hex = level 3 WiGE.  WiGE maintains altitude when it moves into the level 0 woods hex and is fine)

Empyrus

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I seem to recall something about LAMs in AirMech mode using WiGE movement... do they count as WiGEs for the purposes of this thread?

JadeHellbringer

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This seems might be a good rules question, but I think the way it works, a WiGE would get the benefits from intervening woods hexes (remembering the WiGE is one level above the hex it's in), but not from a woods hex it was in.

Per pg 199 of TWThere it says "the hex it occupies" nothing about nearby hexes. So fly into a hex, have 3 light woods between you and your enemy and everybody, everything at level 0 and your WiGE is safe.

Sorry, that's what I was meaning- I wasn't referring to surrounding hexes (which obviously would have an effect, yes), only regarding the hex the WiGE is actually in at that time. Sorry, trying to work on this on one screen and get work done on the other.

I seem to recall something about LAMs in AirMech mode using WiGE movement... do they count as WiGEs for the purposes of this thread?

Since the article is about WiGEs and not LAMs, no, not for the purposes of THIS thread. If that's what the LAM rules say, great, but I'm not really wanting to sidetrack this into another LAM discussion- another thread would be good for that discussion.
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Empyrus

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Since the article is about WiGEs and not LAMs, no, not for the purposes of THIS thread. If that's what the LAM rules say, great, but I'm not really wanting to sidetrack this into another LAM discussion- another thread would be good for that discussion.
OK.
I will take notes* about the movement discussion certainly, should i ever find myself playing with a LAM for some reason, what applies to WiGE movement presumably applies to AirMech movement.

*Basically i'll bookmark this page to a Battletech sub-folder called WiGE, and eventually will forget about it.

And now i'll go and see if i can make a WiGE unit...

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I seem to recall something about LAMs in AirMech mode using WiGE movement... do they count as WiGEs for the purposes of this thread?

they use a modified form, but one that basically has to be treated separately because of all the differences. so it's not really a good idea to discuss them here.

i beleive there may be a thread dedicated to LAM's you can go to, or if not one recent enough, just start a new one.

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Per pg 199 of TWThere it says "the hex it occupies" nothing about nearby hexes. So fly into a hex, have 3 light woods between you and your enemy and everybody, everything at level 0 and your WiGE is safe.

"Because a WiGE vehicle flies above terrain,"

By that logic, neither should a Mech. Unless the rule believes you'd fly *above* the trees themselves, which seems like it'd get handled just like VTOLs.
IMO, WIGE should get cover from the hex it's in if the elevations work out. So, moving along the road = trees cover from the hex you're in.
Plus any intervening terrain.

It wouldn't be gamebreaking to just let WIGEs float on water neither. Maybe at half its MP, round down.

Hmm, related question: can an ekranoplan move across water without the WIGE effect? If so, just at 'taxi' speeds, or still with a decent amount of speed?
How long do they need to come to a stop?

Solid article, Hellbie! Makes me want tot try to design a WIGE or two.

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JadeHellbringer

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To answer (as well as I can):

Quote
By that logic, neither should a Mech. Unless the rule believes you'd fly *above* the trees themselves, which seems like it'd get handled just like VTOLs.
IMO, WIGE should get cover from the hex it's in if the elevations work out. So, moving along the road = trees cover from the hex you're in.
Plus any intervening terrain.

As far as the trees in a woods hex, that's just how the rules say it. Personally I'd play it that they still have cover, since they're still a level below the treetops, but that's how it's worded.

Quote
It wouldn't be gamebreaking to just let WIGEs float on water neither. Maybe at half its MP, round down.

I actually was surprised to find that WiGEs didn't automatically get flotation hulls as part of their inherent makeup- to be honest, based on my research over the years prior to Battletech's version, I really assumed that units like the Hiryo just automatically had it, and really didn't think otherwise about it until seeing units in TRO:VA that specifically mentioned flotation hulls! As a house rule, I think it makes sense to at least give it the 1MP it gets on the ground. Since flotation hulls don't really cost anything in terms of tonnage, that seems like it wouldn't break things too badly. Worth testing, for sure. Based on the real-life applications, I can't fathom why this wasn't how they worked in the game to begin with- if anything, I would think having to add gear to operate on LAND would be the issue!

Quote
Hmm, related question: can an ekranoplan move across water without the WIGE effect? If so, just at 'taxi' speeds, or still with a decent amount of speed?
How long do they need to come to a stop?

I'm assuming you're talking the real versions? Since they're basically flying boats at the end of the day, they have no trouble taxiing, but not much beyond that, same as a floatplane can only make plodding speeds until the floats leave the water. If you mean the Battletech version, I'm assuming that like above in my house rule, they only get the 1MP. The Battletech version also lands in the 30m that one hex provides- you don't need to set up a series of hexes for landing or any of that. Real-life examples obviously needed a little further than that, but not as much as you'd think- water makes for a lot of resistance, so combined with airbrakes the Lun, for example, needed far less distance to come to a full stop than a comparable airliner-sized aircraft would need. (Of course, it also didn't travel at nearly as high of a speed, so that's also a factor.)
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Paul

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As far as the trees in a woods hex, that's just how the rules say it. Personally I'd play it that they still have cover, since they're still a level below the treetops, but that's how it's worded.

I'll open up a rules question on it, if Elliotte doesn't beat me to it. I think the wording needs some clean up at least.


Quote
As a house rule, I think it makes sense to at least give it the 1MP it gets on the ground. Since flotation hulls don't really cost anything in terms of tonnage, that seems like it wouldn't break things too badly. Worth testing, for sure.

Works for me. Might give them some utility at creating a firing line where nothing else really can, and without the fragility of hovercraft; they'd sink when a regular boat does, but not from a pesky crit.


Quote
Since they're basically flying boats at the end of the day, they have no trouble taxiing, but not much beyond that, same as a floatplane can only make plodding speeds until the floats leave the water.

Pity, I thought the difference might be more like a hydrofoil when it moves too slow to get lift; it's slower, but still has decent movement courtesy of the thrust available to it.
But fair enough.



Quote
The Battletech version also lands in the 30m that one hex provides- you don't need to set up a series of hexes for landing or any of that. Real-life examples obviously needed a little further than that, but not as much as you'd think- water makes for a lot of resistance, so combined with airbrakes the Lun, for example, needed far less distance to come to a full stop than a comparable airliner-sized aircraft would need. (Of course, it also didn't travel at nearly as high of a speed, so that's also a factor.)

It does simplify the application a fair amount at least.

Paul
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