Author Topic: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*  (Read 23263 times)

lucho

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Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« on: 15 March 2018, 19:34:56 »
Spartan SPT-N*



Rhonda's Irregulars, pg 31 (Scenario Pack)
Technical Readout: 3058, pgs 136-7
Technical Readout: 3058 upgrades, pgs 220-1

Following up on the SLDF Lancelot this slightly early Mech of the Week will focus on what is undeniably one of the rarest battlemechs of the entire universe, not to mention rarely used by players on tabletops worldwide. The Spartan is entirely a product of the Star League, and a very tangible vision of the approach favored by the SLDF. "When push comes to shove" sums up nicely the development cycle of the Spartan, as it is a reaction to the events of the time.

Rewind back to the halcyon days of the Star League, and its ignominious end. The Periphery tasked General Alexander Kerensky to no end, and had clearly demonstrated the limits of the SLDF's force projection. Matinson Armaments rose to the occasion, carrying the SPT project from the drawing board to manufacturing. However, in such uncertain times it is necessary to look at the big picture, and this is a picture of going with the familiar. Unrest in the Periphery left the SLDF with a need for something NOW; everything about the Spartan infers haste. Faced with a very immediate challenge Martinson Armaments responded with a somewhat cookie cutter approach, but as I hope to express in so many words this wasn't necessarily a bad thing. The Spartan exemplifies the approach started by the Terran Hegemony with battlemechs such as the Orion and Thunderbolt, and is frequently described/derided as a 'Fast Battlemaster`.

Nuts & Bolts

   Every political entity that has battlemech technology tends to develop a certain style; specific solutions for specific problems. A corollary of this is the appearance of the battlemech. The Draconis Combine is well known to be all about PPCs and swords, Davion loves its autocannons, and so on, the Terran Hegemony designers had come to favor what can best be described as a walking egg. No anthropomorphic or animalistic robots here, only form following function. At eighty tons the mech is on the low end of the assault category, sharing the weight class with such illustrious designs such as the Victor, Thug, and the Awesome. Despite the weight, the mech has the soul of a high-end medium mech such as the Wolverine or Shadowhawk with its blend of speed and flexible weapon suite.
   
   Canon says that The SLDF generals issued the challenge for the Spartan as a response to the unrest in the Periphery. The design suggests a copy/paste approach to the design process, as well as availability. The chassis lacks many of the technological advances that had become common. Was this because of time constraints, or something else? In any case, the Spartan would have been a good choice for a succession war-era downgrade due to its familiar design and off-the-shelf components.
   
Defensive

   The Spartan, as previously mentioned, is in many ways a retread of a tried and true model.The design suggests haste. Martinson Armaments didn't break any new ground, nor took any risks in answering the SLDF's call for a new battlemech. The chassis is standard, with the only extravegance being the engine. A massive Dantrus 400 extralight engine pushes the Spartan to 86 kph, nearly unheard of for an assault mech of the period. Today it is common, but in its day only the Charger could match it.
   
   Fourteen tons of armor protect The Spartan, making it one of the tougher mechs of the period. The armor is evenly distributed, so that every location can take multiple hits from PPCs or large bore autocannons; even the rear locations can resist anything short of a PPC. On top of this the Spartan mounts an AntiMissile system with two tons of ammunition. Despite a tendency to jam the AMS can often mean the difference between victory and destruction. The only drawback to the design is the lack of CASE in most models. Carrying four tons of unprotected ammunition all but guarantees a messy end; the high casualty rate of the Amaris Civil War attests to that. 

Offensive

    The Spartan boasts a payload that is very similar to the famous Battlemaster: a single PPC backed by SRMs and medium lasers. In this case however, all of the weapons are enhanced. The PPC is the Kinslaughter model, that has extended range and special insulating cones. The lasers are pulse models, and the missiles are Streaks. Three medium Pulse Lasers and twin Streak-2 racks pack enough punch to knock a battlemech down, or rip open most vehicles. All in all, the Spartan is geared toward short ranged engagements, but with the ability to shoot its way in. The mix of short range missiles, PPC, and pulse lasers is flexible and above all quite accurate. The icing on the cake is the Target Acquisition Gear mounted in the left torso. The Spartan can spot for artillery, further increasing its value.
   
    Thirteen double strength heatsinks keeps the heat under control. While not enough for nonstop Alpha Strikes, such an all out attack only causes problems if the Streaks fire. Even in the modern age many mechs cannot make this claim. An interesting detail is that the Streak launchers each have their own ton of ammunition. The experience of the Reunification War still burned bright in the minds of the SLDF, and the Spartan is an example of this. Carrying a mix of primarily energy weapons and oversized ammunition bins the mech boasts enviable battlefield endurance. At least, as long as it takes no hits to those magazines.

Variants

   With the destruction of Martinson Armaments'manufacturing complex at the outset of the Amaris Coup the Spartan never had the chance for many variants. Even so, a few have made their appearance. The standard model, the SPT-N2, was preceded by the SPT-N1 model. The -N1 differed only by way of standard heatsinks. Double strength heatsinks are a necessity for a mech based primarily on energy weapons, and so the -N1 never saw service.
   
   Perhaps thinking along the same lines as most readers, the SPT-NF attempts to rectify the problem of vulnerable ammunition bins. Accounting for nearly a quarter of the total production, this variant removes the TAG in exchange for CASE in both torsos, which goes a long way in protecting the mechwarrior and preventing the total destruction of the mech. Everything in life is about tradeoffs, but this is a questionable tradeoff at best. The Target Acquisition Gear is one of the most valuable elements of the Spartan. Losing it reduces the mech to just another low end assault. Far better would have been to reduce the magazine of the AMS or Streak launchers. Although the Dantrus extralight engine is destroyed in an ammunition explosion, even with CASE, the -NF variant can reasonably claim to be a slight improvement defensively.
   
   Fast foward to the modern era and the SPT-N3. Both the ComGuards and the Word of Blake have modified a number of their Spartans to better fit in with their combat doctrines. Swapping the pulse lasers for Extended Range Medium Lasers and removing the AntiMissile System it adds C3i gear and incorporates three additional double heatsinks. Again, tradeoffs. The expanded heat dissipation can keep up with the extra thermal output, and the extra range of the lasers can and will make a difference. The C3i link, like the TAG, is a force multiplier that should not be underestimated. This variant lacks CASE, which is worrying on a mech that by definition wants to put itself in harm's way as much as possible. All in all, the -N3 model a decent modification even though it doesn't address the Spartan's weaknesses.
   
Deployent
   
   Entering the SLDF's To&E just in time for the Amaris Coup, the Spartan began its carreer on the wrong foot; Martinson Armament's factory was destroyed by Rim Worlds Forces in the opening stages. About six hundred were manufactured, and of that total only a third survived the Civil War. Kerensky took fifty or so of them into exile, and ComStar saw nineteen survive Tukayyid. Outside of that, a handful have appeared in the hands of mercenary commands, most notably Rhonda's Irregulars.
   
   The original specifications for the Spartan were a response to the increasing unrest in the Periphery, and this is relected in the design. The mech is a generalist, equipped to deal with a wide range of opponents. The pulse lasers and Streaks are good for dealing with fast moving targets, and the PPC is all range threat. The Spartan is a good choice for independent operations, since it can stay in the field longer than most mechs of the period. The TAG  is invaluable for such missions: send the Spartan out as a roving hunter-killer, such as anti-insurgency strikes. Find the enemy, tag him, and watch the artillery rain down. A good choice for this type of mission is to pair the Spartan with the Padilla (the original SLDF model) for a highly mobile force.

Gee, this far without a single 300 reference? Not cool. How do you use the Spartan in practice? Like a Spartan


   The short range of most of the armament makes the Spartan a poor choice for cavalry operations- just the author's opinion, but cavalry units should not need to get right up in the enemy's face- but those same weapons make the mech well suited for slashing attacks. The speed and accuracy of the mech gives it a degree of control over the engagement, and the heavy armor allows it to survive such tactics ( or not, if the Amaris Uprising and Tukayyid are any indication ). Always pair the Spartan with Arrow IV units, don't let that TAG go to waste. The SLDF could pair the Spartan with other high-endurance, high mobility mechs such as the Flashman and Lancelot; this is probably the origin of the heavy cavalry tactics employed by several clans. The children of Kerensky took the SLDF's concept and ran with it, while the Inner Sphere reverted to a seige mentality during the succession wars.
   
   While on the surface it may appear that fighting a Spartan is similar to fighting a Battlemaster, the Spartan is the tougher opponent. Faster, and with more accurate weapons the mech could run down most mechs of its day and dictate the range and angle of the fight. Only in the modern age, post Operation Revival, do we see mechs able to meet the Spartan on even terms. The mech is somewhat undergunned by modern standards, but for the period it was a very capable weapon array. Tactics for facing Spartans hinge upon restricting its mobility and overwhelming firepower; once the armor is breached the mech quickly crumples. Be wary: both the SLDF and ComStar/Word of Blake are well versed in the use of Arrow IV artillery, so the Spartan should be a priority target. Box it in, and hammer it until it breaks.
   
Final thoughts

   By today's standards the Spartan doesn't impress many of the younger players, accustomed to MadCats, Executioners, and Falconers. But when viewed with its contemporaries of the SLDF the Spartan was an impressive machine. Even eschewing technologies that we now take for granted such as endo-steel and ferro-fibrous armor the assault mech delivers outstanding performance. It really was an early lesson in the impact of new technologies on battlemech design. And to be honest, it's just plain fun to use.

« Last Edit: 16 March 2018, 19:01:43 by lucho »
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Darkwing

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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #1 on: 16 March 2018, 08:45:17 »
I've always had a soft spot for the Sparty. The SPT-N3 has served as the point man for many of my C3i networks. While not flashy, it never disappoints either. With the change to the ammunition of the AMS, I was happy to see the 2 ton bomb replaced by the electronics. On the other hand the loss of the abilities to pack inferno's hurt.
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mbear

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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #2 on: 16 March 2018, 08:54:23 »
Swapping one of the Medium Pulse lasers for a small pulse laser or a standard medium laser would allow you to install CASE on the base chassis. That's a big improvement right there.

August 24, 2020 update: re-reading the SPT-N2 sheet it looks like there's two tons of Streak ammo. Remove one and you get CASE in the side torsos without any weapon swaps.
« Last Edit: 24 August 2020, 09:24:18 by mbear »
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GermanSumo

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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #3 on: 16 March 2018, 09:13:56 »
ahhh... the spartan. the star leagues answer to the charger. i never cared this mech like AT ALL. and 2 years ago i took a closer look at it in a boring hour. and suddenly regretted i never played it. i still havent. but it seems like a really good medium wheight scout lance leader and awesome infighter. along with 16 damage kicks. i would like to know how this one ages in the times of heavy gauss, reflective armor and transformers. anybody played it recently in a jihad or later era?

Luciora

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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #4 on: 16 March 2018, 10:42:27 »
I always had fond thoughts about the 5/8/X 80 tonner.s  And I do like the looks of it.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #5 on: 16 March 2018, 11:19:29 »
What is funny is that the N2's weapons load is sort of reflected in the Timberwolf A that everyone loves, taking into account some origin style differences and Clan tech weight differences.  Its really too bad we did not get a Gargoyle from someone like the Scorpions copying the Spartan.

With that said, I think I have seen it used once or twice in MM.  Its really too bad we were given such limitations for its use and it did not make a Blakist production come back.  Did the Irregular's Spartans even survive the FCCW?
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #6 on: 16 March 2018, 12:35:28 »
Rewind back to the halcyon days of the Star League, and its ignominius end...
This line hooked me like a bigeye off the Grand Banks. Bravo!

I think your analysis is right, it is a very well-armoured cavalry medium. Reframing it that way makes it a lot more palatable. I'll try to incorporate it next time I play a Jihad game.

lucho

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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #7 on: 16 March 2018, 21:06:41 »
Swapping one of the Medium Pulse lasers for a small pulse laser or a standard medium laser would allow you to install CASE on the base chassis. That's a big improvement right there.

Or just remove a single ton of AMS ammo for CASE. No need to reduce the firepower for it  :)
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glitterboy2098

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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #8 on: 16 March 2018, 21:23:11 »
i'm surprised there was never a version that yanked the AMS and and SRM for a pure energy weapon armament.

lucho

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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #9 on: 16 March 2018, 21:43:52 »
i'm surprised there was never a version that yanked the AMS and and SRM for a pure energy weapon armament.

The SLDF had the Flashman and Lancelot for that. The Terran Hegemony liked their mechs to sport a mix of BFG, medium lasers and missiles, such as the Orion, Thunderbolt, Guillotine, Warhammer, and Battlemaster. The Spartan adheres closely to that.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #10 on: 16 March 2018, 21:52:07 »
Yeah, I was about to say then it would be a fatter Flashman.

I think the other way to take it might have been interesting- give it some LRMs along with either FF or ES, it has a lot of crits free.
Colt Ward
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Maelwys

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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #11 on: 16 March 2018, 22:26:28 »
With that said, I think I have seen it used once or twice in MM.  Its really too bad we were given such limitations for its use and it did not make a Blakist production come back.  Did the Irregular's Spartans even survive the FCCW?

Actually...

I dunno if this is just an error, but in TR3058U, the manufacturer and primary factory line doesn't have a destroyed notation next to it.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #12 on: 17 March 2018, 04:33:46 »
Great write up, the Spartan is a pretty darn good machine, the N3 is the best of the lot though.  What makes it stand out is that speed, you don't expect that on an 80 ton Mech and that makes it dangerous.  it can zip around at Medium Mech speed and that's rare for an 80 tonner.  Hell i'd rather have one of these than a Gargoyle Prime.  Great write up for a sadly under-used Mech.
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lucho

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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #13 on: 17 March 2018, 07:30:07 »
Thanks! I wish I had time for more writeups  :-\

I agree, the N3 variant is a solid pointman for C3i networks. I would argue that it's a bit oversinked, and I'll never understand why ComStar/Wob never upgraded the armor to ferro-fibrous, but that's nitpicking  ;)
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #14 on: 17 March 2018, 15:31:32 »
Use it like what it is: An overweight 55 tonner.   :thumbsup:
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #15 on: 17 March 2018, 22:52:10 »
Great right up!

Never used one myself, the looks of yet another walking trash pal (man, the Urbie fans should be all over the Spartan) and a Assault with a XL. The XL shouldn't be a deal breaker considering it will be sharing the ranks with the Berserker BRZ-A3 and keeping pace with mechs like the Falconer FLC-8R... but I prefer the Berserker BRZ-C3 and never feilded the Falconer ether.

The machine defiantly has Hero's mech written all over it for any inspiring writing looking for a unique ride for a protagonist that's not too over the top. No, I wasn't the first to come to this conclusion: https://www.deviantart.com/art/Commission-Future-Shadows-313184907

 
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lucho

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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #16 on: 18 March 2018, 07:46:46 »
That's some cool art  8)

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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #17 on: 18 March 2018, 11:17:29 »
As far as I'm concerned, the Spartan commits the number one sin for over engined mechs that have passed the optimal mass for their movement curve - it doesn't mount more armour than could be mounted on a more efficient chassis weight.

Further, it wastes tonnage on two tons of ammo for both the streaks and the AMS (admittedly relics of bygone rule sets).  If one of those tons had gone into armour - giving it more than can be carried by a 75 tonner - then the other inefficiencies of the machine can be forgiven because it succeeds in coupling the best possible armour with a given movement curve.  If the other had gone into CASE then so much the better - although I'm less fussy about CASE on XL engined machines as I am on something were the explosion would be survivable.

So near, yet so far...

That said, I wouldn't go so far as to call the Spartan a bad machine - in fact it's quite potent and compares reasonably well with similar IS heavy cavalry machines like the Rakshasa or Maelstrom.  As a ComStar/WoB player, I find the C3i version particularly intriguing and could easily find myself using one as the point man for an assault weight Level II.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #18 on: 18 March 2018, 11:31:43 »
So how does the Spartan stack against the Flashman, anyway?
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #19 on: 18 March 2018, 11:43:18 »
Pretty sure the mech's origin was after the time when Streaks could not load Infernoes, so really its just a fluff bit.
Colt Ward
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Darkwing

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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #20 on: 18 March 2018, 12:10:49 »
We got our first look at it in Rhonda's Irregulars back in 91. That's Battletech Compedium years when any unit carrying a 2 rack can pack them. Really made the Spartan a great quick response unit against breakthroughs by vehicles.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #21 on: 18 March 2018, 12:26:03 »
Ah, my mistake then . . . I saw it first in '58 with the other Star League releases.
Colt Ward
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #22 on: 18 March 2018, 15:57:48 »
Pretty sure the mech's origin was after the time when Streaks could not load Infernoes, so really its just a fluff bit.

Streaks can carry Infernos now? THAT's a rule I missed somehow!

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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #23 on: 18 March 2018, 16:08:05 »
No, as stated before BMR Class 2 launchers were the only ones able to carry infernoes- so SRM2 or SSRM2.  It is why you see some old designs with a bunch of SRM2 launchers since they were intended to start fires- like the Cavalry (SRM) which has 4 SRM2s along with a SRM6 and wastes some tonnage.
Colt Ward
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #24 on: 18 March 2018, 19:29:19 »
As far as I'm concerned, the Spartan commits the number one sin for over engined mechs that have passed the optimal mass for their movement curve - it doesn't mount more armour than could be mounted on a more efficient chassis weight.

Further, it wastes tonnage on two tons of ammo for both the streaks and the AMS (admittedly relics of bygone rule sets).  If one of those tons had gone into armour - giving it more than can be carried by a 75 tonner - then the other inefficiencies of the machine can be forgiven because it succeeds in coupling the best possible armour with a given movement curve.  If the other had gone into CASE then so much the better - although I'm less fussy about CASE on XL engined machines as I am on something were the explosion would be survivable.

So near, yet so far...

That said, I wouldn't go so far as to call the Spartan a bad machine - in fact it's quite potent and compares reasonably well with similar IS heavy cavalry machines like the Rakshasa or Maelstrom.  As a ComStar/WoB player, I find the C3i version particularly intriguing and could easily find myself using one as the point man for an assault weight Level II.



As a blood spirit collector I love staffing my units with ols school SLDF designs like this! I am hoping as the golden era is more flushed out we get more canon clan refits of this unit. Can any point me to a homebrew IIC version?

lucho

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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #25 on: 18 March 2018, 22:32:45 »
So how does the Spartan stack against the Flashman, anyway?

Almost apples and oranges; almost but not quite. The Flashman was designed as a barrage unit, and the Spartan more of a generalist. The Spartan is tougher and more versatile
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #26 on: 18 March 2018, 22:45:12 »
How is the Spartan more durable?  Compared to the SL Flashman it has four times the ammo locations, both have XLs, the Spartan has just 8 points more armor and neither are crit-padded?

Though . . . why the Flashman did not get the Royal treatment I do not know . . . Golden Century?
Colt Ward
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #27 on: 19 March 2018, 08:04:00 »
As a blood spirit collector I love staffing my units with ols school SLDF designs like this! I am hoping as the golden era is more flushed out we get more canon clan refits of this unit. Can any point me to a homebrew IIC version?

Homebrew variants really should go down in the Fan Designs/BattleMechs board.  That makes it easier for the authors and other CGL types to mix freely without potentially seeing fan designs.

Here's the URL:
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?board=16.0

In fact, you might even try posting something to drum up a competition of sorts down there to see what people come up with.!

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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #28 on: 19 March 2018, 08:12:08 »
Streaks can carry Infernos now? THAT's a rule I missed somehow!

Other way around. They USED to be able to. An odd rules quirk in the old day said that inferno ammo could only be loaded in two-packs of SRMs, but that included Streaks. The updated rule removed that stupid restriction so SRM=4 and 6 racks can carry them too (why WOULDN'T they?), but removed the ability for the Streak SRM-2 (and the later larger iterations) from using them. Nicely cleaned-up rule, there.

As for the Spartan... honestly, I should love this thing. I love fast heavies, and this is just a heavier fast heavy, right? But... man, everywhere I look I see problems. MPLs are accurate, but the range blows- standard mediums would be a huge improvement here, maybe a Black Hawk-style six pack around the wrist. The XL engine is a necessary evil- you can't make this thing work without it- but the lack of CASE is very worrying- the engine is popping either way if the ammo goes off, but the CASE-less body means the Mech is a total loss if that happens, and this thing is a HUGE investment. That sucks.

However, it's not all bad news. It's a great centerpiece of a fast-strike lance, particularly backed by Ost-weirdos or good mediums like Griffins. The AMS helps make it a little tougher, which is always nice. The ER PPC means that if you can't close in the way you probably want to, you likely outrange most Periphery opponents, so you can at least pick at them safely (and move quickly enough to either hold the range or bum-rush as you wish).

The real gem here though is the TAG. Ohhhhhhh yeaaaaaaahhhhh. Look, if you don't have Arrow IV units in your army, screw it, it's a waste of a ton, right? (We'll leave semi-guided LRMs out of this discussion since they don't come along until the Spartan is near-extinct). Well, so make sure you attach Spartans to Arrow-heavy forces. That TAG is a sweet trick to have- use it. The Spartan is far, far tougher than most TAG-carrying units of the day- so let it be the spotter that faces down the core of an enemy formation, guiding down the long bomb from afar and surviving the attacks with its tough hide and AMS long enough to crack a tough target. Its own weaponry can then finish the job, or cover its retreat. In this role of heavy spotter, it's honestly hard to think of a better unit in its day, and even in the later eras a surviving Spartan (rare as it is) is hard to not like in the role. Just don't get attached to it, because it's got almost Crusader-abilities to explode at the worst possible moment. ;)

(Side note- hey kids, ever try building a Spartans' basic loadout on a Black Hawk-KU? Just sayin', if you can't get the real deal, this is an option worth trying. The loss of toughness is made up for nicely by the jump jets, and you don't come up much short on the full loadout.)

One more thing. We made it that far in the article without a 300 reference, fine. We went the WHOLE article without this guy? For shame.  :thumbsup:

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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #29 on: 22 March 2018, 10:11:31 »
@JadeHellbringer:
          Fair points. The Spartan shows signs of being a rush job, as it largely lacks advanced construction materials. The -NF variant seems to acknowledge the problem of exposed ammo bins, but removing the TAG to do it...  :(

As far the MPLs and their short range: A great post-Jihad update would be to upgrade them to X-Pulse lasers. For the existing models, the mech's speed and armor allows you to get close enough. My only real gripe is that an 80 ton mech relies principally on only 3 MPLs and 2 SRM-2 Streak launchers as its main armament  :-\ Lose some of that generous ammunition and/or mount ferro-fibrous armor in order to add more MPLs or Streak launchers

How is the Spartan more durable?  Compared to the SL Flashman it has four times the ammo locations, both have XLs, the Spartan has just 8 points more armor and neither are crit-padded?

Though . . . why the Flashman did not get the Royal treatment I do not know . . . Golden Century?

Yes, I should have clarified. The Spartan is somewhat tougher than the Flashman due to a half ton more armor and a bit more internal structure. This is offset however, by more and exposed ammo bins.

If mechs such as the Crab and Flashman are any indication, the SLDF seemed to be on the verge of a major shift in its deployment doctrine. The Periphery uprising cut that short, however, and the SLDF fell back on the familiar doctrines, as seen in the Atlas and Spartan.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #30 on: 22 March 2018, 10:25:45 »

As for the Spartan... honestly, I should love this thing. I love fast heavies, and this is just a heavier fast heavy, right? But... man, everywhere I look I see problems. MPLs are accurate, but the range blows- standard mediums would be a huge improvements.

The mpls lousy range also eats most of the the accuracy.  From 1 to 6 hexes, the pulse is only more accurate than its standard cousin at 1, 2, and 4 hexes.  At 3, 5, and 6, the range mods are the same. If you work the comparison from the mlas side, it gets worse because the +4 mod at 7-9 hexes is kinda harsh for the mlas, but the coresponding +infinite mod for the pulse is a wee bit worse.

@JadeHellbringer:
          Fair points. The Spartan shows signs of being a rush job, as it largely lacks advanced construction materials. The -NF variant seems to acknowledge the problem of exposed ammo bins, but removing the TAG to do it...  :(

As far the MPLs and their short range: A great post-Jihad update would be to upgrade them to X-Pulse lasers. For the existing models, the mech's speed and armor allows you to get close enough. My only real gripe is that an 80 ton mech relies principally on only 3 MPLs and 2 SRM-2 Streak launchers as its main armament  :-\ Lose some of that generous ammunition and/or mount ferro-fibrous armor in order to add more MPLs or Streak launchers
So we have an 80 tonner, swap 3 mplas for 6 mlas, swap a pair of streak 2's for say a srm 6.  Factor in the PPC...  Why is this staring to sound familiar?
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #31 on: 22 March 2018, 10:29:46 »
Quote
The mpls lousy range also eats most of the the accuracy.  From 1 to 6 hexes, the pulse is only more accurate than its standard cousin at 1, 2, and 4 hexes.  At 3, 5, and 6, the range mods are the same. If you work the comparison from the mlas side, it gets worse because the +4 mod at 7-9 hexes is kinda harsh for the mlas, but the coresponding +infinite mod for the pulse is a wee bit worse.

To be fair, the MPL does a bit more damage.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #32 on: 22 March 2018, 10:43:57 »
Well, to be fair the 2 SSRM2 and 2 ammo bins were about using the infernoes to light infantry and vehicles on fire.  It would have been nice to get a LoT entry for one putting FF armor on it and replacing the SSRMs with 4 SRM2s & 2t ammo for burning things up again w/CASE.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #33 on: 22 March 2018, 10:46:38 »
So we have an 80 tonner, swap 3 mplas for 6 mlas, swap a pair of streak 2's for say a srm 6.  Factor in the PPC...  Why is this staring to sound familiar?

Yeah, yeah, we've all used Yeomans before, we get it.  ;D
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #34 on: 22 March 2018, 11:03:08 »
Well, to be fair the 2 SSRM2 and 2 ammo bins were about using the infernoes to light infantry and vehicles on fire.  It would have been nice to get a LoT entry for one putting FF armor on it and replacing the SSRMs with 4 SRM2s & 2t ammo for burning things up again w/CASE.

There's nothing mentioned about the writer's intentions; at the time Streaks only came in 2-packs. The accuracy / ammunition efficiency  is, in general, more useful than infernoes. But at the time we were fortunate that we could have it both ways  :)
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #35 on: 22 March 2018, 11:06:01 »
Yeah, yeah, we've all used Yeomans before, we get it.  ;D

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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #36 on: 22 March 2018, 11:24:57 »
There's nothing mentioned about the writer's intentions; at the time Streaks only came in 2-packs. The accuracy / ammunition efficiency  is, in general, more useful than infernoes. But at the time we were fortunate that we could have it both ways  :)

Um?  Streak 6s came out with the Clan mechs, pretty sure 4s did too.  While the SL may have only had SSRM2s at that point, the BT timeline nailing that down came out much later than the mech did in IRL timeline.  Your opinion is that Streak is more useful than infernoes, but not everyone agrees- especially when you play a combined arms environment.  Additionally, the argument would have merit when discussing a single ton of ammo- two with so few launchers is a pretty clear indication the designer had alternate ammo in mind.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #37 on: 22 March 2018, 11:54:26 »
Yes, it's just my opinion that the accuracy/ammo efficiency is more useful than infernoes. What I meant about the writer's intentions is that we don't know what the designer was thinking. Did he even know that Streak-2s could load infernoes at the time? Many people didn't; maybe he just had the habit of loading one ton of ammo for every launcher. Until the designer chimes in (is that even possible at this point? ), let's not make too many assumptions

FWIW, I like the accuracy of the Streaks, but a variant designed specifically for infernoes and perhaps a flamer or two would awesome. Infernoes, flamers, and TAG for dealing with Periphery scum  >:D :thumbsup:
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #38 on: 22 March 2018, 15:20:31 »
Yeah, yeah, we've all used Yeomans before, we get it.  ;D
??? Not where I was going...
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #39 on: 22 March 2018, 15:42:55 »
??? Not where I was going...

I know, I was trying to think of the Mech least like the BLR you were getting at in terms of looks/stats for humor's sake. Sorry!
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #40 on: 22 March 2018, 15:47:53 »
Your humor did not penetrate the internet barrier.

So we have talked about it, but does anyone use it regularly in any flavor?  Does anyone have the mini (if one exists)?
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #41 on: 22 March 2018, 15:58:20 »
Your humor did not penetrate the internet barrier.

So we have talked about it, but does anyone use it regularly in any flavor?  Does anyone have the mini (if one exists)?

Used one once in a grinder (where it died promptly to a through-armor ammo crit because have you met me?).

Mini isn't a great one, honestly- got one in a Christmas exchange a few years ago from Redshirt, who painted it well in olive-drab and black with a gold canopy, like the Halo Master Chief in my earlier post. (Spartan, HAH!)- it's not a well-detailed mini, nor is it in a particularly interesting pose. Unfortunately, hardly unique problems from the 3058 era of Mechs- several from that time suffer the same problems (Night Gyr, Thunder Hawk, Emperor, etc.)

It could really use a resculpt, but with it being as rare as it is both in-universe and in player-designed forces, I doubt it would sell well enough to really be worth the effort- it's money and time better-suited to one of the designs I mentioned above instead (Gyr in particular).
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #42 on: 22 March 2018, 16:02:54 »
The mini is...chunky is really the word that comes to mind.

If you can pair it with Arrow IV or tube artillery with Copperheads, it's great since it's a really durable TAG unit.  Without that, it's unimpressive.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #43 on: 22 March 2018, 17:23:09 »
Same here: it needs to be paired with Arrow IV for best effect. Otherwise it's a great skirmisher, but needs more firepower. I ran a modified Spartan in a campaign once; it's a great choice to mount a Snub-nosed PPC
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #44 on: 22 March 2018, 19:07:10 »

So we have talked about it, but does anyone use it regularly in any flavor?  Does anyone have the mini (if one exists)?


We don't have the mini, but my players do count a Spartan NF in their merc unit, leading a heavy cavalry lance (which also includes an Excalibur B2b, both mechs were taken from Word of Blake, and a pair of....Dragon's I think). They like to use this lance and some supporting units in a "thunder run" style romp through a urban map.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #45 on: 23 March 2018, 07:44:46 »
Same here: it needs to be paired with Arrow IV for best effect. Otherwise it's a great skirmisher, but needs more firepower. I ran a modified Spartan in a campaign once; it's a great choice to mount a Snub-nosed PPC

Oooooh. OOOOOOH. I like this idea. Might have to tinker with a Jihad-era version with a plasma rifle, drop an MPL for the ammo, switch the remaining two to ER mediums...

...yeah, my morning productivity just tanked.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #46 on: 23 March 2018, 12:27:09 »
The mini is...chunky is really the word that comes to mind.

If you can pair it with Arrow IV or tube artillery with Copperheads, it's great since it's a really durable TAG unit.  Without that, it's unimpressive.

It has giant feet and tiny arms. I have it and currently looking for arms to swap

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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #47 on: 04 August 2020, 14:54:27 »
During the Golden Century the Fire Mandrills were using refurbished Spartans to a C model- at least until they got Omnis tech.  A large pulse and SSRM4 w/2t ammo in each side toros along with  2 MPL in each arm gives it a fearsome load as it uses its speed to rush into combat.  But when in combat, you cannot just mash the fire button- it only has 14 DHS.  The way it works each side torso has a 1 in 6 chance of going boom! as all the crits that matter are in the upper, the ES & FF are roll again.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #48 on: 08 August 2020, 18:28:46 »
During the Golden Century the Fire Mandrills were using refurbished Spartans to a C model- at least until they got Omnis tech.  A large pulse and SSRM4 w/2t ammo in each side toros along with  2 MPL in each arm gives it a fearsome load as it uses its speed to rush into combat.  But when in combat, you cannot just mash the fire button- it only has 14 DHS.  The way it works each side torso has a 1 in 6 chance of going boom! as all the crits that matter are in the upper, the ES & FF are roll again.

Ha! That sounds like an excellent mandrill ride. Thanks for the idea

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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #49 on: 08 August 2020, 19:47:14 »
5/8 with 2 cLPL?  I mean what is not to like at that point.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #50 on: 08 August 2020, 19:59:35 »
Two tons of streak SRM ammo in side torsos with XL Engines and a lack of crit-packing.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #51 on: 08 August 2020, 22:25:27 »
Well, it has to have a weakness . . . and it is a Clan XL along with Clan IS which means CASE . . . so a 1 in 6 chance of blowing a side.  Personally, I would not have given it two tons of ammo- 12.5 shots would typically be enough- but again planned weakness.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #52 on: 10 August 2020, 10:43:42 »
Same here: it needs to be paired with Arrow IV for best effect. Otherwise it's a great skirmisher, but needs more firepower. I ran a modified Spartan in a campaign once; it's a great choice to mount a Snub-nosed PPC
That could be neat, but I'm actually going to go against my grain and lean away from swapping in a snubbie. It's quick and fairly bricky but it doesn't have the armor, speed or firepower that I would want if I was planning to spend most of my day up close and personal with top end heavies and smaller assaults.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #53 on: 11 August 2020, 18:33:22 »
Really love the Spartan,

I like how it is such a unique design and seems original. The weapons are reminiscent of a Battlemaster but with a little more flair, and the "scout assault" concept has always intrigued me as a primarily Lyran player, ;)

I always thought it was a total shame the fluff states that so few existed the design is begging for a Succession Wars tech downgrade. Any game I've ever used one in the thing just preformed, I like 5/8 cavalry designs and this mech fits the bill. I definitely see it as a command mech for 5/8 medium / heavy companies.

What are the odds of seeing one on the battlefield in each era? Would it be totally unreasonable to have a downgraded variant circa 3000-3025?
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #54 on: 11 August 2020, 21:14:15 »
The design was really rare outside of the Star League.  None of the Successor States ever had any in great numbers, and a downgrade would be possible but not really worth it since you'd have to drop it to 4/6 in order to maintain any sort of weapons or armor at all.  I mean, sure, you can do that but at that point you're really closer to being a Zeus variant.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #55 on: 14 August 2020, 17:58:53 »
It occurs to me that the Spartan would be a fun Gunslinger ride.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #56 on: 15 August 2020, 22:31:30 »
Really love the Spartan,

I like how it is such a unique design and seems original. The weapons are reminiscent of a Battlemaster but with a little more flair, and the "scout assault" concept has always intrigued me as a primarily Lyran player, ;)


The Spartan is essentially the Charger done right.  Replace one of the Streaks with a Beagle Probe and you've got your scout assault.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #57 on: 18 August 2020, 09:12:44 »
The Spartan is essentially the Charger done right.  Replace one of the Streaks with a Beagle Probe and you've got your scout assault.

cheers,

Gabe
That's kinda brilliant...
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #58 on: 19 August 2020, 05:12:23 »
To be a charger, it just isn't meme enough.
Though that's also my thought for any heavy+, fast mech with decent armour.  ;D
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #59 on: 19 August 2020, 10:13:21 »
To be a charger, it just isn't meme enough.
Though that's also my thought for any heavy+, fast mech with decent armour.  ;D
It may not be quite as meme-tastic as a Charger, but with this bit of context I can better see where it fits in the order of battle. Until now, I always saw it as a fast, variation of the Battlemaster.  Not a variant but think Enforcer/Enfield.  It starts to make a lot more as something attached to medium companies, maybe even a light company. 5/8 won't keep pace with a scout lance or company moving at scouting speeds but it can serve as an anchor for such formations. The 2 light lances move in a bounding overwatch, but never moving so far ahead that if they run into trouble, the Spartan's lance can't sprint forward as they sprint rearward.  Or move up, establish a perimeter, and place the Spartan's lance as hidden units.  Move the 2 scout lances up, and if they find trouble, fall back to the Spartan's position. 
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #60 on: 19 August 2020, 13:44:56 »
I dunno....i kinda like the idea of Spartans getting up close and personal like Chargers.


To be a charger, it just isn't meme enough.
Though that's also my thought for any heavy+, fast mech with decent armour.  ;D

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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #61 on: 19 August 2020, 15:33:06 »
Now I'm thinking of a Spartan and Charger tag team. Ether shoot the one with armor and weapons or shoot the one you know is just going to ram into you.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #62 on: 19 August 2020, 18:05:38 »
Are you talking about the 3025 Charger or one of the upgrades?

Because if it's the original, shoot it before it can get in range to do anything.  It doesn't have the armor to take that much punishment and it's got so few crits that it will only take a round or two before they start transferring into the Center Torso.  Or you might get a few leg actuator hits and simply render it a non-entity.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #63 on: 19 August 2020, 18:51:40 »
I was making a joke (a bad one I guess) as the only strategy anyone on the forum has for the Charger CGR-1A1 is using it's speed and size as a battering ram. The Spartan at least has enough armor to contribute to a fight running along side a Champion or a Ostroc. Whatever you can do in a Charger, you can do better in a Dragon exception of demolition derby. 

... and I just realized a Spartan along side a Ostroc, Ostsol, Starslayer and Maelstrom gives you a lance of 5/8 War Potatoes. 
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #64 on: 19 August 2020, 19:29:14 »
Nice! :thumbsup:
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #65 on: 20 August 2020, 05:02:27 »
Ah, the mighty potato.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #66 on: 20 August 2020, 05:49:23 »
Ah, the mighty potato.
Nourishing, reliable, and of the utmost visual character.

Ok, now someone needs to paint up a Spartan as a Mr. (or Mrs.) Potato Head.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #67 on: 16 October 2020, 20:12:30 »
ahhh... the spartan. the star leagues answer to the charger. i never cared this mech like AT ALL. and 2 years ago i took a closer look at it in a boring hour. and suddenly regretted i never played it. i still havent. but it seems like a really good medium wheight scout lance leader and awesome infighter. along with 16 damage kicks. i would like to know how this one ages in the times of heavy gauss, reflective armor and transformers. anybody played it recently in a jihad or later era?

I am curious about this as well and did this get a golden century update? I know it went with on the exodus

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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #68 on: 16 October 2020, 21:47:48 »
Yes, there was a Clan upgrade in TRO: Golden Century.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #69 on: 17 October 2020, 12:17:39 »
Yes, there was a Clan upgrade in TRO: Golden Century.

Man I gotta get that book

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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #70 on: 17 October 2020, 18:56:58 »
Yes, there was a Clan upgrade in TRO: Golden Century.

You are correct sir and it’s courtesy of one of my new fav clans the Mandrills!

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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #71 on: 19 October 2020, 09:07:37 »
Scroll up, I already talked about it . . . and yeah, its solid.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #72 on: 19 October 2020, 14:47:20 »

... and I just realized a Spartan along side a Ostroc, Ostsol, Starslayer and Maelstrom gives you a lance Star of 5/8 War Potatoes.

Fixed that for you  ;)

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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #73 on: 19 October 2020, 22:34:24 »
Also the Flashman...

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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #74 on: 22 October 2020, 14:12:53 »
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #75 on: 22 October 2020, 19:45:34 »
During the Golden Century the Fire Mandrills were using refurbished Spartans to a C model- at least until they got Omnis tech.  A large pulse and SSRM4 w/2t ammo in each side toros along with  2 MPL in each arm gives it a fearsome load as it uses its speed to rush into combat.  But when in combat, you cannot just mash the fire button- it only has 14 DHS.  The way it works each side torso has a 1 in 6 chance of going boom! as all the crits that matter are in the upper, the ES & FF are roll again.

I just ordered TRO golden century and my spartan which had been set for my Blood Spirit alpha galaxy will now be painted up in Kindraa Mick - kreese colors. They are an aero focused outfit so I think an SL fast mech would fit right in.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #76 on: 15 August 2023, 18:16:49 »
You are correct sir and it’s courtesy of one of my new fav clans the Mandrills!

Just got my new plastic spartan in the snord box set and it’s great! It’s going into either my mandrill or spirits

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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #77 on: 15 August 2023, 19:39:47 »
I would note that the Foxes are apparently making them again.  There’s at least one in Wolf’s Dragoons as of Redemption Rites, so it’s at least conceivable that a lot of IlClan Era factions could deploy them, one needn’t limit oneself to a few clans in the Golden Century.
« Last Edit: 15 August 2023, 19:42:52 by Arkansas Warrior »
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #78 on: 15 August 2023, 20:48:57 »
I would note that the Foxes are apparently making them again.  There’s at least one in Wolf’s Dragoons as of Redemption Rites, so it’s at least conceivable that a lot of IlClan Era factions could deploy them, one needn’t limit oneself to a few clans in the Golden Century.

Alas I am tragically enamored with several doomed factions ( blood spirits and mandrills) so I tend focus on 3067 or before

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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #79 on: 16 August 2023, 09:14:42 »
I would note that the Foxes are apparently making them again.  There’s at least one in Wolf’s Dragoons as of Redemption Rites, so it’s at least conceivable that a lot of IlClan Era factions could deploy them, one needn’t limit oneself to a few clans in the Golden Century.

Really?  TRO Golden Century says that?  I thought it was just the Omnis it said were returned?  If that is the case, come one someone make the Masawuwu.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #80 on: 16 August 2023, 09:21:12 »
There's one in Wolf's Dragoons. Nothing says how they got it, when they got it, if there are more, or anything else.  They just have one.  There's nothing saying the Sea Foxes sold it to them, or that the Sea Foxes are making them. 
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #81 on: 16 August 2023, 09:25:46 »
There's one in Wolf's Dragoons. Nothing says how they got it, when they got it, if there are more, or anything else.  They just have one.  There's nothing saying the Sea Foxes sold it to them, or that the Sea Foxes are making them.

Which is what I thought, the providence was never provided.  I figured it was salvage from running into the Falcons, the Dragoons in Redemption Rift got a lot of their material from the Falcons- like dropships!- or for mechs & weapons from Warden Wolf production, like the Pack Hunter and Hellstar.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #82 on: 16 August 2023, 09:37:28 »
The new CO of Zeta has it as her command mech/personal ride.

I’ve used the Spartan C in a game or two at this point (yeah new mini!), and it is pretty entertaining: twin Large Pulse and Quad Mediums does ouch. The heat sinks ain’t the best but the only option to change that would be switching out the Streaks for more DHS (not the worst idea but then your a really undergunned Assault Mech). My recommendation is use it like a Clan heavy and not an assault mech. Save the Streaks for big targets at close range or dump the ammo waiting to explode.

As far as availability goes: I’m throwing one in my Blood Spirits Binary. Two Stooping Hawks go with it atm: yes it has an XL engine but I’m using it as a big brother to the smaller mechs.


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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #83 on: 16 August 2023, 10:17:03 »
The new CO of Zeta has it as her command mech/personal ride.

I’ve used the Spartan C in a game or two at this point (yeah new mini!), and it is pretty entertaining: twin Large Pulse and Quad Mediums does ouch. The heat sinks ain’t the best but the only option to change that would be switching out the Streaks for more DHS (not the worst idea but then your a really undergunned Assault Mech). My recommendation is use it like a Clan heavy and not an assault mech. Save the Streaks for big targets at close range or dump the ammo waiting to explode.

But as nckestrel says, the book does not explain how she has it and she had it before when she was in a Striker battalion.

While the Wolves built the Woodsman and later Timber Wolf & Gargoyle off the old SL Excalibur, I always figured the Spartan played a role in the development of the Gargoyle when you compare looks and performance.  Not getting a Spartan-esque Gargoyle has been a disappointment . . . but I never sat down a HMP or MML to make one.  I DID make a 'update' of the Spartan for a star in Tau Galaxy going into the Refusal War, mostly b/c I wanted to play with a old SL design as a one off given prototype weapons and then mothballed into the Golden Century when full Clan tech started being produced.  Enhanced SL ERPPC, some Prototype SSRMs, etc gave it a different feel for a secondline star where the Invasion Wolves built a new galaxy by emptying the caches and buying stuff from other Clans like the Clint IIC.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #84 on: 16 August 2023, 10:54:53 »
I was a little sad not to get an ilClan era variant to go with the new sculpt. The existing variants are good, but it'd have been nice to see something newer in the IS that wasn't an extinct C3i bot or the C variant of questionable availability.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #85 on: 16 August 2023, 11:12:47 »
It is not in production . . . someone would have to decide to produce a niche assault due to it being a 'fat' heavy- it is assault role rather than the typical of the weight.

I mean, I am a Wolf . . . we use Gargoyles, so yeah let's roll with it.  But most people want a Steiner build when they reach for a assault mech.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #86 on: 16 August 2023, 13:25:00 »
Fair enough, I seem to have assumed facts not in evidence.  TRO Golden Century does, however, say this:


Quote
The last known sighting of a Spartan C occurred in 3067 in the Clan Homeworlds; it is unknown if any are still in service, as none were ever brought to the Inner Sphere.


Now, it's possible that RotS Intel somehow missed that there was one in the Dragoons, or perhaps the Dragoons made another supply run just after TRO GC was compiled.  But to me "Foxes making new ones" is the Occam's Razor explanation.  Maybe they only just started after TRO GC was finished.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #87 on: 16 August 2023, 13:36:25 »
In response to AK and Colt: Scorpion Empire has it currently on the MUL for what it’s worth. I’d imagine the Foxes are the cause. I should have explained that in my post: I highly DOUBT it came from any Dragoon cache: one they’re probably all used at this point or two she had it after Terra but before they went to their new hidden base.

Personally it goes well with a Gargoyle I’d think (and other similar mechs) as fat heavies to run with your typical Clan 5/8 heavies with just a ‘bit’ more.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #88 on: 16 August 2023, 13:42:33 »
In response to AK and Colt: Scorpion Empire has it currently on the MUL for what it’s worth. I’d imagine the Foxes are the cause. I should have explained that in my post: I highly DOUBT it came from any Dragoon cache: one they’re probably all used at this point or two she had it after Terra but before they went to their new hidden base.

Personally it goes well with a Gargoyle I’d think (and other similar mechs) as fat heavies to run with your typical Clan 5/8 heavies with just a ‘bit’ more.

It was not introduced as her new mech in the New Olympia battle while part of the Striker in command of the company, so it was likely her mech before while operating with the Dracs.  I will give you buying off the Foxes is more likely with that GC quote than getting it off the Falcons . . . but with the Falcons taking Mandrill warriors as part of the Harvest Trials and put in garrison clusters due to their nature it is possible the mech would have been out on the Falcon periphery border 'unseen' by the Republic intel ops.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #89 on: 16 August 2023, 14:58:18 »
The Dragoons themselves could have taken a badly-damaged Spartan and rebuilt it as a C model, too.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #90 on: 16 August 2023, 21:07:26 »
In response to AK and Colt: Scorpion Empire has it currently on the MUL for what it’s worth. I’d imagine the Foxes are the cause. I should have explained that in my post: I highly DOUBT it came from any Dragoon cache: one they’re probably all used at this point or two she had it after Terra but before they went to their new hidden base.
....

Spartan-C in Scorpion inventory only showed up at the beginning of 32nd century after being extinct since Jihad and it's appearance coincides with Scorpion Empire crash program to rebuild arms industry which included dusting up blueprints for many C and IIC versions and sending them back in production

And it fits with their current environment since that mech was designed specifically for Periphery (they also couldn't be upgrades of older models because it would involve replacing everything except maybe cockpit seat)

So if there are any new Spartans in current era it's most likely that they would be new C builds by the Empire, Sea Foxes would not be the source since they never had them at any point in history (they seem to have been a rarity even in the Homeworlds)

Examples of older Spartans in the Inner Sphere are most likely actual Star League relics or something Dragoons (and/or Snords) brought with them during one of their supply runs

If anyone would want a Spartan in current date their best bet would probably be to ask Sea Foxes to pick up some Cs for them next time Tiburon Khanate stops by the Scorpion Empire


« Last Edit: 16 August 2023, 21:10:33 by Fire Scorpion IIC »

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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #91 on: 16 August 2023, 23:52:12 »
So if there are any new Spartans in current era it's most likely that they would be new C builds by the Empire, Sea Foxes would not be the source since they never had them at any point in history (they seem to have been a rarity even in the Homeworlds)

Trade . . . it is this thing the Sea Foxes do, which is why we know they kept the Warhawk design in production.

Plus, as I said, the Falcons won Mandrills in the Harvest Wars- which included their material.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #92 on: 31 August 2023, 08:38:01 »
It seems to me that the Spartan-C we got in canon is a bit of a missed opportunity.  The first khan of the Ice Hellions, Stephan Cage, canonically commanded the SLDF's 200th Dragoon Regiment during the Amaris Civil War.  Dragoon regiments, in the SLDF's system, were heavy/assault 'mech units...but Cage's command was still somehow "used primarily for reconnaissance..." uh, whiskey-tango-foxtrot, over? 

Well, between the Spartan and Lancelot, it turns out the SLDF had a couple of appropriately-chonky machines that were still able to keep pace (at least on the ground) with the low-end mediums and lights that most other militaries of the time would be using for skirmishing or picket duty.  Given the SLDF's penchant for equipping entire companies or battalions with the same chassis-type, I wouldn't be surprised if these designs made up the bulk of Cage's unit.  At the very least, he almost certainly would have been very familiar with them.

Then, upon his accession to command of the Ice Hellions, the Spartan's high speed and likely-prior association with their khan makes it a great candidate for an Ice Hellion early totem, particularly since the Hellions invented the lighter clan version of MASC, and I don't see any restrictions on clan machines using superchargers as well.  That gets you a respectably-armed and -armored 80-tonner moving 5/8(13) - an ambusher's dream (if unfortunately prone to locking up and falling over)!  Definitely fits the Hellion doctrine of "striking first is more important than actually winning."
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #93 on: 31 August 2023, 09:33:51 »
Oh, coming back to this . . . yeah, you can fit a Spartan's loadout with Clan weapons on a Gargoyle . . . but have 4t left over, two options I thought of were a cERLL in the non-weapon arm making it better as a Elemental carrier with a ranged weapon.  Other option was a Supercharger & ECM/TAG/BAP choice, but the SC is not available when the Garg goes into production.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #94 on: 31 August 2023, 10:22:24 »
Why not go with the full electronics suite?
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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #95 on: 31 August 2023, 11:44:17 »
I have wondered why isn't there a Thug configuration for the Gargoyle, now I have to ask why isn't there a Spartan configuration for the Gargoyle.  :laugh:
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Colt Ward

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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #96 on: 31 August 2023, 12:01:58 »
I have wondered why isn't there a Thug configuration for the Gargoyle, now I have to ask why isn't there a Spartan configuration for the Gargoyle.  :laugh:

You get the Thug load-out with Conner's . . . it is just not balanced, so yeah I would love 1 ERPPC in each arm that way you retain the firepower.

But yeah, a real Clan version of the original SLDF Spartan would be good in the 'assault' role, the battery of MPLs and SSRMs to exploit any openings with AMS providing some protection- just like the original.  A real 'close quarters battle' mech without hauling a 20-class autocannon.
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Greatclub

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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #97 on: 31 August 2023, 18:57:02 »
(they also couldn't be upgrades of older models because it would involve replacing everything except maybe cockpit seat)

Doesn't stop quite a few other upgrades. I like the theory of SLDF to comstar to WOB to RotS (upgraded by someone sentamental, because ghu knows the RotS wasn't afraid to spend cash on marginal gear) to Dragoons salvage.

Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Mech of the Week: Spartan SPT-N*
« Reply #98 on: 31 August 2023, 19:46:20 »
Doesn't stop quite a few other upgrades. I like the theory of SLDF to comstar to WOB to RotS (upgraded by someone sentamental, because ghu knows the RotS wasn't afraid to spend cash on marginal gear) to Dragoons salvage.
It has clan endosteel, clan XL, clan CASE, clan ferro, clan weapons…the only stuff on it that might not be clan-built are the gyro, cockpit, sensors, and life support.  That’s not an upgrade, that’s a completely new mech.
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