Author Topic: House Clan OpFors  (Read 3245 times)

Colt Ward

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House Clan OpFors
« on: 30 October 2018, 21:59:49 »
Does anyone besides ComStar have a unit that mimics the Clan structure, using their machines or ones upgraded to similar profiles to train their own regiments against?  Something like ComStar's Invader Galaxy though I think some cultures would not run with that idea.
Colt Ward
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: House Clan OpFors
« Reply #1 on: 31 October 2018, 15:37:54 »
I swear I saw at least one unit in Era Report 3062 that was like that.  I'd have to dig the book up to be sure, though.
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Colt Ward

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Re: House Clan OpFors
« Reply #2 on: 31 October 2018, 16:34:38 »
Invader Galaxy for ComStar is the only one I remember . . .

With BT being the future of the 80s, I am surprised that did not make it in since the US has both Army & AF 'schools' hosted by a unit built to use equipment that mimics the opposition along with their tactical doctrine.  I would also expect it would be something a merc unit on Outreach, Galatea or Arc Royal might do . . .

or Solaris VII- "See Clan Invasion battles for yourself!"  The promoter not only gets to sell the training sessions against a 'authentic Clan force, led by Star Captain Chuck of the Smoke Jaguars' but viewership from all the tourists.  I imagine distribution rights would be a bigger sell in areas further from the Clan OZ border.
Colt Ward
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Re: House Clan OpFors
« Reply #3 on: 31 October 2018, 17:37:21 »
It seems like something the fedcom would have established in davion territory within a year of the start of Revival. Some NAIS satellite campus completely dedicated to clan warfare

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Colt Ward

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Re: House Clan OpFors
« Reply #4 on: 31 October 2018, 18:24:49 »
It does- except IMO it would be near the Falcon/Wolf border for units rotating into garrison there with maybe a smaller version in FedSuns space for command school.
Colt Ward
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"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Robroy

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Re: House Clan OpFors
« Reply #5 on: 31 October 2018, 19:08:36 »
I think the Wolf Spiders did that at one point for the Dragoons.

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glitterboy2098

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Re: House Clan OpFors
« Reply #6 on: 31 October 2018, 20:36:54 »
the dragoons and IIRC Snords irregulars have some sub-units that use clan organization. the Dragoons because it is part of their origins, Snord's because they took a fair number of clan bondsmen.

i suspect the Inner Sphere military forces have some units organized and vismidded for training purposes, but i doubt they see much service outside the training academies.

though if they captured enough clanners as bondsmen, i could see the fedsuns at least organizing some binaries and/or trinaries of captured clanners under a cadre of experienced IS commanders, probably instead of a normal company in a unit.

Colt Ward

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Re: House Clan OpFors
« Reply #7 on: 31 October 2018, 22:10:54 »
From what I understand this is how it happens at Fort Irwin.

I think they have a battalion+, maybe a bit more that is trained and sort of (or at least visually) equipped like Warsaw Pact ground units.  Or at least it used to be Warsaw Pact, what it is now probably depends on threat assessments.  They take intel assessments of enemy equipment and its capabilities while giving it a margin of improvement I would think.  Then they go out and play wargames against regular forces that rotate through Ft Irwin.  To give the visitors a degree of realism (for fog of war, Murphy, etc) the OpFor cheats- just like SERE & Rangers training.

The National Training Center was also used for combat testing of equipment against Pact equipment & tactics.  From what I read the Abrams & Bradley debuted against the Soviet mock-ups and they tested various doctrine/equipment combinations against the OpFor.

From what I understand the rotation is planned so that units go through regularly . . . or when they want the first responding forces to get a refresher.  Which is why I said for large scale- like a regiment- the training center during the AFFC would have been somewhere along the Clan border to work up units that are rotating to that frontline.  A smaller group would be present for the Command School- something that trains prospective and current battalion commanders.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

glitterboy2098

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Re: House Clan OpFors
« Reply #8 on: 01 November 2018, 02:22:37 »
actually, along the border would probably be a bad place. you don't want your OPFOR command to get overrun by the real thing. a better spot would be in a location more towards the center of the successor state.. somewhere relatively equidistant from all the operational theaters (even those not fighting the clans) to make transport of units to and from the training center easier.

while training troops headed to the clan front is an obvious need, the fact is that you really need any troops relocated from the other theaters to already be trained when they get there. so ideally you'd be training all your units, not just those slated to be assigned to the front soon.

Natasha Kerensky

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Re: House Clan OpFors
« Reply #9 on: 01 November 2018, 03:06:10 »

According to Sarna:

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Additionally, the Federated Suns possesses several Combat Training Centers (CTCs) which allow for realistic combat training. At each center, sensors mounted on every combat unit and trooper allow the Ground-Aerospace Combat Tracking Instrumentation computer system to track every simulated weapons attack and assign hits and damage for each, while dedicated OpFor units accurately mimic the Federation's enemies.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Armed_Forces_of_the_Federated_Suns

It references Field Manual: Federated Suns, p. 42.

Look up Combat Training Center and Sarna says:

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The task of Combat centers is to train the RCTs as a cohesive unit. Their sophisticated networks (which record all battle damage and simulate the result like a vehicle cannot move) is the centerpiece of each CTC. Throughout the Federated Suns there are 6 of such centers located and on [sic] was in the former St. Ives Compact.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/AFFS_training_%26_education#Combat_Training_Centers.5B4.5D

This also references Field Manual: Federated Suns, p.42.

There are also a couple handfuls of references to various units playing opfor roles on Sarna but none appear dedicated to that function:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?search=opfor&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=default&fulltext=1


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Iron Grenadier

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Re: House Clan OpFors
« Reply #10 on: 01 November 2018, 05:48:30 »
Does anyone besides ComStar have a unit that mimics the Clan structure, using their machines or ones upgraded to similar profiles to train their own regiments against?  Something like ComStar's Invader Galaxy though I think some cultures would not run with that idea.

Did the Northwind Hussars use a clan style structure? Didn't their CO become their anti-clan expert?

Colt Ward

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Re: House Clan OpFors
« Reply #11 on: 01 November 2018, 09:59:30 »
Thanks Natasha, I did not have that FM but did not remember any unit write ups from FMU that were like Invader Galaxy . . . so those are technically 'off the book' units, while probably not full RCT sized (without relying on local militia to fill armor and infantry slots?) they can at least simulate the opposition for a RCT.  I would have expect a few in the Lyran half of the FedCom as part of the LCAF reforms.

glitter- along the border was not really meant literally, IMO not even 3 jumps.  But placed something like between Skye/Hesperus and Arc Royal in a trade route system, as equidistant as possible between core & periphery edges of that border.  I do not have a map handy otherwise I would be able to present a likely set of worlds- but I can definitely say its not on Coventry!

Not sure the Hussars used Clan structure as their normal formation but Jaffray did end up viewed as a Clan expert- partly b/c of his time with a Jaguar and his interrogation of the bondsman on his covert op.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Tai Dai Cultist

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Re: House Clan OpFors
« Reply #12 on: 01 November 2018, 10:20:48 »
I don't know of anything that specifically says the instructors at Kensai Kami (House Kurita's TOP GUN mechwarrior program) adopt Clan materiel/tactics during some part of the training course, but it'd be improbable that they wouldn't beyond the early Clan Invasion Era.

Colt Ward

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Re: House Clan OpFors
« Reply #13 on: 01 November 2018, 10:29:29 »
Very likely, but Top Gun is about training excellent individuals to improve their skills and then they are supposed to return to their units and share what they learned so they all improve.  The aerial comparison is between Top Gun and the NTC is more like Red Flag exercises (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_Red_Flag) where you try to train the whole unit on longer exercises as realistically as possible against a unit that specifically learns the opposition.
Colt Ward
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"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

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Re: House Clan OpFors
« Reply #14 on: 01 November 2018, 10:47:19 »
it's not IS, but there is at least one clan example of the reverse - Star Adder's Kappa Provisional Galaxy use IS tactics in war games. It doesn't appear to be a common practice on either side

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Re: House Clan OpFors
« Reply #15 on: 01 November 2018, 17:28:21 »
Weren't Cunningham's Commandos and/or the Wild Geese mercenaries who performed OpFor duties for the Davions??

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Re: House Clan OpFors
« Reply #16 on: 01 November 2018, 19:10:23 »
Correct, Cunningham's Commandos were acting as OpFor on Novaya Zemlya after the war of '39. However, they were used to play the role of Capellan forces, not clans. (Logical, given the time frame) Source: MercSup Update, p. 47
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Colt Ward

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Re: House Clan OpFors
« Reply #17 on: 02 November 2018, 09:18:58 »
Since MercSup Update is in a box somewhere, did it give any clue how long?  B/c hiring mercs to supplement the OpFor when a larger command is scheduled to make its way through the combat training centers- like one of the oversized RCTs- makes some sense . . . it also makes me think Novaya Zemlya would have been one of the CTC sites.  I also think Small World could have been one of the AFFC CTCs due to the planet information in Chaos March SB.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

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Re: House Clan OpFors
« Reply #18 on: 02 November 2018, 10:16:01 »
Quote
This assignment kept the Commandos mostly out of the Clan war, though each of its battalions were rotated through the Lyran front to bolster weakened defenses and to give their own personnel some experience against the Clans. Yet it was only after Operation Guerrero and the Lyran secession that Cunningham’s Commandos took on a key role within the Federated Suns. At Duke Hasek’s behest, the Second Commandos regiment relocated to the St. Ives Compact when the Capellans invaded, while the First Commandos escorted relief supplies into the embattled nation until the end of the war. After the conflict, both regiments returned to Novaya Zemlya, now the temporary seat of the Kathil Combat Region.

Late '57 to early '58 it looks like

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Colt Ward

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Re: House Clan OpFors
« Reply #19 on: 02 November 2018, 10:26:14 »
So then they were likely hired for a 6 to 9 month cadre contract to help train . . .
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Colt Ward

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Re: House Clan OpFors
« Reply #20 on: 02 November 2018, 10:28:08 »
Hm, they were the staff on the SIC CTC?
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

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Re: House Clan OpFors
« Reply #21 on: 02 November 2018, 12:16:00 »
Since MercSup Update is in a box somewhere, did it give any clue how long?  B/c hiring mercs to supplement the OpFor when a larger command is scheduled to make its way through the combat training centers- like one of the oversized RCTs- makes some sense . . . it also makes me think Novaya Zemlya would have been one of the CTC sites.  I also think Small World could have been one of the AFFC CTCs due to the planet information in Chaos March SB.

MercSup Update is very vague regarding the timespan:
Quote
Though the War [of 39] itself proved disastrous, [...] their loyalty to the Federated Suns ensured that the AFFS would continue to use them. The mercenaries bounced from one border world to another before ultimately receiving semi-permanent assignment to the Novaya Zemlya Combat Training Center as a regular “opposition force.”

No indication how long they were bouncing around the border before coming to Novaya Zemlya... And yes, Novaya Zemlya is named as a CTC.
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Re: House Clan OpFors
« Reply #22 on: 10 November 2018, 19:01:36 »
Check out the ......... hmm...... 4th Davion Guards?   I think.

Somewhere in FM:FS or FM:LA there is at LEAST 1 RCT that has a unit set up in clan structure using captured clan equipment.

They have managed to raid over the board & often lay the blame for the raid on another clan instead of on the RCT.

Its not an OP4, but its something.
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