Author Topic: Design Challenge: Space Guard DropShip  (Read 745 times)

FastConcentrate8

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Design Challenge: Space Guard DropShip
« on: 15 December 2024, 17:51:34 »
So, a concept that I love and have included in a few of my original factions is the idea of a Space Guard. Basically a Coast Guard in Space with a Military service meant to provide civilian support, respond to disasters, and patrol trade lanes.

Hypothetically, let's design some craft for one of these.

Star League Tech Base is available though feel free to low ball that, after all these guys shouldn't be expected to be fighting on any front lines. These DropShips should be armed enough to scare off or fight off Pirates though and have the capability to preform VBSS Missions against said Pirates vessels or to Search Civilian Craft.

Most of all though, these dropships must be equipped to support a Civilian Distressed Vessel (DV) during an onboard emergency. The ultimate purpose of a Space Guard being to save those in need. Medical Facilities, Docking equipment, and large amounts of Delta V so as to be able to chase down a DV on an irregular trajectory, and the ability to sustain high G burns so as to get to a rescue site quickly.

Good luck designers and remember, Semper Paratus.

Daryk

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Re: Design Challenge: Space Guard DropShip
« Reply #1 on: 15 December 2024, 19:21:17 »
I wonder how these will cost out compared to Cannonshop's Sampans... :)

Hellraiser

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Re: Design Challenge: Space Guard DropShip
« Reply #2 on: 15 December 2024, 19:37:14 »
/Insert Intruder Here

Otherwise I'd think a lot of this would be covered by some sort of Armed Shuttle.

We need more Shuttles in canon far too many restricted into certain eras.

Best answer is to get full stats to a lot of the historical Ares & NL-Series models that date back to the SL.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

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Daryk

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Re: Design Challenge: Space Guard DropShip
« Reply #3 on: 15 December 2024, 20:03:11 »
At the very least, it's a reason for Infantry Bays... temporary quarters a step up from camping in the cargo bay.

Primus203

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Re: Design Challenge: Space Guard DropShip
« Reply #4 on: 15 December 2024, 23:26:09 »
Heavily Modified Version of one of my lower tech combat dropships.

Coast Guard Dropship Lifeguard- When it comes to the duties of the coast guard one of the most important is saving lives. Here every minute matters. As such this dropship has a blistering 9/14 MP. In case even this is not enough it carries a single even faster shuttle for fast response which will be listed next.

 To aid in it's duties this ship carries a size 5 MASH for emergency medical treatment. 12 Extra medical personnel for deployment. 12 experienced marine's for either boarding operation or to keep order on ship being helped. 8 Extra engineers for deployment on top of the shuttles techs and if necessary the dropships techs. Has 8 infantry bay combined with the 2 in the shuttle this ship can carry 280 passengers  for a few days.

If needed to fight the dropship has decent armor. The dropship has 3 two gun Large Laser Bays per face and a single 30 gun Medium laser bay on the nose capable of savaging dropships with its 15 CAP damage.
Code: [Select]
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Introduced: 3100
Mass: 5,000
Battle Value: 12,062
Tech Rating/Availability: D/X-X-D-D
Cost: 407,360,800 C-bills

Fuel: 150 tons (4,500)
Safe Thrust: 9
Maximum Thrust: 14
Heat Sinks: 400
Structural Integrity: 25

Armor
    Nose: 457
    Sides: 385/385
    Aft: 313

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Small Craft (1)         1 Door   
    Bay 2:  Infantry (Foot) (40)    1 Door   
    Bay 3:  Cargo (179.5 tons)      1 Door   

Ammunition:
None

Escape Pods: 0
Life Boats: 5
Crew:  9 officers, 21 enlisted/non-rated, 15 gunners, 229 bay personnel, 20 passengers, 12 marines

Notes: Mounts 90 tons of standard aerospace armor.

Weapons:             Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)       Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV     ERV   Class       
Nose (138 Heat)
30 Medium Laser  90   15(150)  0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser       
2 Large Laser    16   2(16)   2(16)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser       
2 Large Laser    16   2(16)   2(16)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser       
2 Large Laser    16   2(16)   2(16)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser       
RS/LS Fwd (48 Heat)
2 Large Laser    16   2(16)   2(16)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser       
2 Large Laser    16   2(16)   2(16)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser       
2 Large Laser    16   2(16)   2(16)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser       
RS/LS Aft (48 Heat)
2 Large Laser    16   2(16)   2(16)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser       
2 Large Laser    16   2(16)   2(16)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser       
2 Large Laser    16   2(16)   2(16)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser       
Aft (48 Heat)
2 Large Laser    16   2(16)   2(16)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser       
2 Large Laser    16   2(16)   2(16)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser       
2 Large Laser    16   2(16)   2(16)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser       
Life Ring Shuttle- If the dropships speed isn't enough to get there in time the shuttle may be sent ahead to stabilize the situation and but time or to evacuate as many people as possible. The shuttle has 11/17 MP. The shuttle has 2 infantry bays to either offload people or to transport to the emergency engineers, marines and medical personnel.
Code: [Select]
Lifeguard Fast Rescue Shuttle Life Ring
Type: Military Spheriod
Mass: 200 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Introduced: 3145
Mass: 200
Battle Value: 256
Tech Rating/Availability: D/X-X-X-D
Cost: 15,333,500 C-bills

Fuel: 8 tons (640)
Safe Thrust: 11
Maximum Thrust: 17
Heat Sinks: 15
Structural Integrity: 18

Armor
    Nose: 23
    Sides: 22/22
    Aft: 21

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Infantry (Foot) (10)    1 Door   
    Bay 2:  Cargo (13.5 tons)       1 Door   

Ammunition:
None

Escape Pods: 0
Life Boats: 0
Crew:  1 officer, 2 enlisted/non-rated, 56 bay personnel

Notes: Mounts 1 tons of standard aerospace armor.

Weapons
and Ammo              Location   Tonnage  Heat   SRV  MRV  LRV  ERV
None

PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Re: Design Challenge: Space Guard DropShip
« Reply #5 on: 16 December 2024, 02:50:22 »
Code: [Select]
Shepherd Patrol Ship (Prototype)
Type: Military Spheriod
Mass: 12,400 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3055
Mass: 12,400
Battle Value: 13,254
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-F-E
Cost: 2,139,410,000 C-bills

Fuel: 500 tons (15,000)
Safe Thrust: 7
Maximum Thrust: 11
Heat Sinks: 195 (390)
Structural Integrity: 38

Armor
    Nose: 715
    Sides: 715/715
    Aft: 715

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Fighter (1)             1 Door   
    Bay 2:  Fighter (1)             1 Door   
    Bay 3:  Fighter (1)             1 Door   
    Bay 4:  Fighter (1)             1 Door   
    Bay 5:  Fighter (1)             1 Door   
    Bay 6:  Fighter (1)             1 Door   
    Bay 7:  BattleArmor (CS) (6)    0 Doors   
    Bay 8:  Small Craft (2)         1 Door   
    Bay 9:  Cargo (901.5 tons)      1 Door   

Ammunition:
    864 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (45 tons)

Escape Pods: 20
Life Boats: 0
Crew:  9 officers, 27 enlisted/non-rated, 6 gunners, 58 bay personnel

Notes: Mounts 136.5 tons of heavy ferro-aluminum armor.

Weapons:                                      Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV     ERV   Class       
Nose (66 Heat)
2 Large Pulse Laser                       20   2(18)   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)  Pulse Laser
2 Large Pulse Laser                       20   2(18)   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)  Pulse Laser
2 Large Pulse Laser                       20   2(18)   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)  Pulse Laser
2 Anti-Missile System                      2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (48 shots)
2 Anti-Missile System                      2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (48 shots)
2 Anti-Missile System                      2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (48 shots)
RS/LS Fwd (66 Heat)
2 Large Pulse Laser                       20   2(18)   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)  Pulse Laser
2 Large Pulse Laser                       20   2(18)   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)  Pulse Laser
2 Large Pulse Laser                       20   2(18)   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)  Pulse Laser
2 Anti-Missile System                      2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (48 shots)
2 Anti-Missile System                      2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (48 shots)
2 Anti-Missile System                      2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (48 shots)
RS/LS Aft (66 Heat)
2 Large Pulse Laser                       20   2(18)   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)  Pulse Laser
2 Large Pulse Laser                       20   2(18)   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)  Pulse Laser
2 Large Pulse Laser                       20   2(18)   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)  Pulse Laser
2 Anti-Missile System                      2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (48 shots)
2 Anti-Missile System                      2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (48 shots)
2 Anti-Missile System                      2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (48 shots)
Aft (66 Heat)
2 Large Pulse Laser                       20   2(18)   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)  Pulse Laser
2 Large Pulse Laser                       20   2(18)   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)  Pulse Laser
2 Large Pulse Laser                       20   2(18)   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)  Pulse Laser
2 Anti-Missile System                      2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (48 shots)
2 Anti-Missile System                      2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (48 shots)
2 Anti-Missile System                      2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (48 shots)


I was think about something like this. It would be expensive a bit, though.

The main idea is disguise it as a Mule class cargo ship, move along with the route and see if there are any suspicious activity. Most of its expensive cost is the result of the comm scanner so if you drop it then the cost would be dramatically reduced, but I add it on purpose for it should have advanced scanner in order to found possible ships in distress or any criminal activity. Its lasers and ASF wing would be enough to deal with some petty pirate threats and its durable armor don't let them blow off it.

Daryk

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Re: Design Challenge: Space Guard DropShip
« Reply #6 on: 16 December 2024, 04:28:52 »
Yeah, the DropShop multipliers mean they're the last place you'd want to put an NCSS.

Lagrange

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Re: Design Challenge: Space Guard DropShip
« Reply #7 on: 16 December 2024, 22:56:35 »
I don't see a particularly compelling role for a dropship here.   

Something like an Interdictor small craft is capable of dealing with errant civilian craft and pirates.  Something like the M^3 support craft with a portion of the 50 tons of cargo carrying fuel seems decent for medical/rescue activities.  Small craft are particularly good at docking with out of control craft, and the carried support vehicle can provide MASH support.

The only thing really lacking is a particularly advanced sensor suite, but as noted that's absurdly expensive on a dropship.  Maybe a jumpship + tug dropship combo?  The jumpship could have the sensor suite, and the tug could move the jumpship at .5g to an intercept.  Then the tug could apply to the civilian DS and the JS could get back by jumping?

Liam's Ghost

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Re: Design Challenge: Space Guard DropShip
« Reply #8 on: 16 December 2024, 23:53:36 »
Going for one of the more common dropships, here's a leopard patrol ship conversion

Leopard Patrol Ship
Type: Military Aerodyne
Mass: 1,900 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Introduced: 3025
Mass: 1,900
Battle Value: 2,999
Tech Rating/Availability: D/X-E-D-D
Cost: 166,968,000 C-bills

Fuel: 137 tons (5,480)
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Heat Sinks: 80
Structural Integrity: 7

Armor
    Nose: 140
    Sides: 130/130
    Aft: 100

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Fighter (2)             2 Doors   
    Bay 2:  Small Craft (2)         2 Doors   
    Bay 3:  Cargo (134.0 tons)      1 Door   

Ammunition:
    36 rounds of LRM 20 ammunition (6 tons)

Escape Pods: 2
Life Boats: 0
Crew:  2 officers, 4 enlisted/non-rated, 3 gunners, 14 bay personnel, 20 marines      

Notes: Mounts 29.5 tons of standard aerospace armor.

Weapons:                    Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)              Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV     ERV   Class       
Nose (35 Heat)
2 PPC                   20   2(20)   2(20)    0(0)    0(0)  PPC         
1 LRM 20                 6   1(12)   1(12)   1(12)    0(0)  LRM         
    LRM 20 Ammo (12 shots)
3 Medium Laser           9   2(15)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser       
RW/LW (25 Heat)
1 LRM 20                 6   1(12)   1(12)   1(12)    0(0)  LRM         
    LRM 20 Ammo (12 shots)
1 Medium Laser          19   2(21)   2(16)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser       
    2 Large Laser
Aft (14 Heat)
2 Medium Laser          14   2(18)    1(8)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser       
    1 Large Laser
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

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PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Re: Design Challenge: Space Guard DropShip
« Reply #9 on: 17 December 2024, 05:20:28 »
The problem is dropship needs very high cost on the sensor, while adding a sensor on the small craft means it is effectively a satellite with a thruster.

That said, although they don't need to face the full frontal assault of the opposing nation, but they do need to deal with the pirates. And that means they are need to deal with a dropship or two and at least a wing of ASFs. Is a small craft suited for the task? As a surveillance craft it does, but the pirate in battletech world needs far more than a simple motorboat or two to be functional, so mere small craft looks not so good at deal with them.

Also small crafts are more easy to be looked as the surveillance craft, while dropship is easier to disguise as a typical merchant ship.

Lagrange

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Re: Design Challenge: Space Guard DropShip
« Reply #10 on: 17 December 2024, 20:55:04 »
That said, although they don't need to face the full frontal assault of the opposing nation, but they do need to deal with the pirates. And that means they are need to deal with a dropship or two and at least a wing of ASFs. Is a small craft suited for the task? As a surveillance craft it does, but the pirate in battletech world needs far more than a simple motorboat or two to be functional, so mere small craft looks not so good at deal with them.
In dealing with pirates, Small Craft can just bypass ASF and directly target dropships.  A squadron of the Interdictors for example is capable of taking out a pirate mothership and is half the price of a Leopard.

The largest value of a dropship is much greater baseline sensor ranges.  Maybe there's a good reason?

nomad_345

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Re: Design Challenge: Space Guard DropShip
« Reply #11 on: 18 December 2024, 21:05:52 »
There is already a pretty good pair of DropShips that can easily be modified for this task. The Model 96 Elephant and its later successor the Model 97 Octopus. For the M-96, just nix the 'Mech and 'Vee bays, cut the fuel to 150-300 tons, add some Infantry bays as suggested by Daryk, add in a couple of MASH units and... Presto: your SL vintage Space Guard DropShip. For later periods doing something similar to the M-97 is possible.

Daryk

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Re: Design Challenge: Space Guard DropShip
« Reply #12 on: 18 December 2024, 21:16:39 »
Agreed! :)

DevianID

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Re: Design Challenge: Space Guard DropShip
« Reply #13 on: 19 December 2024, 03:42:18 »
I still like using wet navy ships as analogs.  The Legend class is 4600 tons, has 90 day endurance, and token weapons on warship scale but more then enough to overmatch non-peer civilian vessels.  It has some small craft carry capacity, a pretty large crew, but quite a bit of mass reserved for more stuff like better sensors or weapons.  Also, using the Legend class as a template, youd only have 9 of these, making them the largest ships of the 'Space Guard'.  The other 230ish ships of a 'Space guard/coast guard analog' would be mostly 'small craft', with lots and lots of coast guard vessels being 90ish or 150ish ton vessels.  The icebreakers would probably be asteroid tugs to fix errant asteroid problems, not nearly as full featured as the elephant or octopus, those are very militarized dropships.

Lagrange

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Re: Design Challenge: Space Guard DropShip
« Reply #14 on: 20 December 2024, 21:41:04 »
I still like using wet navy ships as analogs.  The Legend class is 4600 tons, has 90 day endurance, and token weapons on warship scale but more then enough to overmatch non-peer civilian vessels.  It has some small craft carry capacity, a pretty large crew, but quite a bit of mass reserved for more stuff like better sensors or weapons.  Also, using the Legend class as a template, youd only have 9 of these, making them the largest ships of the 'Space Guard'.  The other 230ish ships of a 'Space guard/coast guard analog' would be mostly 'small craft', with lots and lots of coast guard vessels being 90ish or 150ish ton vessels.  The icebreakers would probably be asteroid tugs to fix errant asteroid problems, not nearly as full featured as the elephant or octopus, those are very militarized dropships.
This seems pretty reasonable to me.  You don't need super-long-endurance, because the mission profile doesn't require long duration.  You do want a large hull count so you can have a fast response across the entire frontier.  In most cases, what's needed is _any_ response rather than no response.   So, lightly militarized rescue supporting small craft are the vast majority of the hull count, perhaps with an option to up-militarize for wartime.  Then add a few larger ships for missions the small craft can't handle.  In the existing rules that seems to be leveraging large craft sensor ranges or a tug.