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BattleTech Game Systems => General BattleTech Discussion => Topic started by: General308 on 13 May 2019, 16:39:23

Title: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: General308 on 13 May 2019, 16:39:23
So if you wanted to take out a mercenary Battalion colander what price would you set the bounty at?
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 13 May 2019, 16:43:34
Start low and the longer you go without anyone collecting, keep adding to it.

So what's low?  Depends on how mad you are. But using specific numbers, I'd imagine something on the order of 10,000 C-Bills for the head of a mercenary commander of a unit as big as a battalion? It'd probably begin to attract attention.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: AlphaMirage on 13 May 2019, 17:29:54
I think that is incredibly low.  10k is pocket change for a battalion commander.  At least 3 million to take on a target that big with a 40k add-on per Merc and another 1 million bonus per company commander.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 13 May 2019, 17:39:41
I think that is incredibly low.  10k is pocket change for a battalion commander.  At least 3 million to take on a target that big with a 40k add-on per Merc and another 1 million bonus per company commander.

Bounty Hunters generally don't take on the whole Battalion.  They take on the commander in his bunk-room.  Preferably while he's still asleep.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: massey on 13 May 2019, 17:57:02
Still way too low.  Where is this guy?  Are you going to have to take a jumpship to get to him?  You'd have to pay for passage there, passage back for one and a guest, how much will security cost during transport, etc.

In real life, bounty hunters go after people who skipped bail.  In Battletech they seem to be a little different, but let's look at real life for a second.  Let's say that Larry gets arrested for armed robbery.  The judge sets bail at (say) 2,000 C-Bills (~$10,000).  Larry hires a bondsman at 10% (so Larry pays 200 and the bondsman puts up the rest).  If Larry makes all his court appearances, the bondsman gets his money back when the case is concluded.  If Larry runs, the bondsman is out 2,000 C-Bills unless he can get him back.

So let's say that Larry runs, the bondsman hires Bob the Bounty Hunter to go get him.  Bob will get a portion of that 2,000 to get him back (let's say he gets 25%, so 500 C-Bills).

Who would you rather chase after?  A bounty hunter would make his money by retrieving common criminals.  You can catch Larry when he's walking out to his mailbox.  I think it's easier to catch 20 Larrys than to go after one military commander who has an entire battalion at his disposal.  You want to fight your way past armed security with machine guns?  Or would you rather grab a few repeat drunk drivers as they stagger out of the bar?

I think you're talking a few hundred thousand C-Bills for any kind of mechwarrior.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: epic on 13 May 2019, 18:31:28
This is effectively a special op/assasination/kidnapping.  I would have to agree that 10k would be too low of a price.  Sure, you could catch them with their pants down at the local tavern and be on the cheap.  However, the higher value (and therefore, probably riskier) a target is, the more expensive it needs to be.

A Major - who may even be a minor noble - is worth a lot more than 10000 cbills.  That's a couple months pay for the guy probably (not including any salvage).  Campaign Ops has the pay of a rank 7 officer that is Elite at almost 16k.  If they were only a regular it would be only 5kish, but still... 2 months pay?  The net worth of said Major especially if they own property (and/or their own mech) could be in the millions.  Especially if they are the commander of said merc unit (it's not established if the battalion commander is the CO of the entire merc unit, or if said battalion is part of something bigger). 

Risk and payoff also means that the Bounty Hunter MAY bushwhack said Battalion Commander outside of their mech.  That doesn't mean that said Bounty Hunter isn't risking the wrath of an ENTIRE MECH BATTALION hunting them if anything goes wrong.

Consider that a lance of mechs unopposed can level a city.  Effectively, said Bounty Hunter is risking the firepower of something that can level multiple cities...
for 10k?  No thanks.

I would say somewhere in the neighbourhood of millions.  Let's say it's a battalion of light mechs, averaging 2 million apiece.  Call it ... 5% of that unit.

Plus expenses.  So... 4 or 5 million?  That's a fair bet. 
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: The_Caveman on 13 May 2019, 18:53:30
I think the real question is, do you have to bring 'em in dead? or alive?

Dead is easy enough. Alive is going to be a lot harder when you're talking about a MechWarrior.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 13 May 2019, 19:16:21
Well, under the older merc sourcebooks you could full on hire a merc company for a few million C-Bills, so imo that kind of price is ridiculous for a bounty.

And if anyone wants to play the "how about a book from THIS millennium card", there's the ATOW rpg materials.  There's a negative quality (iirc its called 'bloodmark') that represents having a price on your head, and that can give you a benchmark to begin from.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: Alsadius on 13 May 2019, 20:44:44
Well, under the older merc sourcebooks you could full on hire a merc company for a few million C-Bills, so imo that kind of price is ridiculous for a bounty.

A battalion is three companies, so enough to hire 1/3 of the relevant force for a single job doesn't seem overpriced to me at all. If the expectation is that you're taking the battalion on in combat, I'd expect tens of millions(though a lot of that would be salvage, I'm sure) - any force big and scary enough to take on a few dozen mechs and expect to win is going to demand that kind of price, and tbh they'll probably take at least that much in losses from the fighting. Even if they only lose a company(3:1 K/D ratio), and that company is entirely light 3025 mechs, that's still a stonking big pile of C-bills - a dozen Locusts is north of 18 mil.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 13 May 2019, 20:49:02
Well again bounty hunters aren't launching interstellar raids to collect on a bounty.

You're attracting potential traitors/defectors in the same unit to give them a reason to switch sides bearing the head of your target. 

You're incentivizing your extant house or merc troops to gun for the target when they happen to be on a battlefield with him for non-bounty related reasons.

You're attracting assassins who don't even drive mechs and kill in the dark.

You don't need to pay millions of C-Bills under any of those circumstances.


But if you're hiring a whole company of mechwarriors to go kill one mechwarrior, that's a stupid way to go about it but sure that'd require millions of C-Bills.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: epic on 13 May 2019, 21:20:17
It's still a risk vs reward scenario. 

If you fail on a bounty hunt like this, you are far more likely to be dead (probably as a smear on the bottom of a mech foot actuator) than bounty hunting and picking up people who skipped on bail.

So the reward has to be suitably compensatory.  I acknowledge that the difference between dead and/or alive for the bounty is important.  Dead?  Sure, take the CO out like Minoru Kurita on Kentares.  A good sniper could do the deed for 10-20k.  Admittedly, figuring out a plan to GTFO so that the angry buddies don't kill ya is tricky, but could be done. 

Alive?  that's a heist that is quite serious.  I would still stand by my few million. 
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: epic on 13 May 2019, 21:24:21
I would also point out this; any unit that may have a bounty on it, or their COs may take a hard-line on such ... adventurism. 

For instance, making sure that a reverse bounty is offered on anyone that perpetrates such a bounty attempt. 

I actually ran a game where the group did exactly that.  Whatever the bounty was offered - if it was successful, the group said they would double the bounty for the head of the perpetrator. 

Just the head though.

After all, if there is a bounty offered, the CO and/or merc unit probably deserves it.  War crimes and all.  So a nice little fund was left in escrow for just that eventuality. 


It forced the bounty to be gratuitously high, on the notion again - risk vs reward. 
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: Colt Ward on 13 May 2019, 21:39:32
FM Mercs Sup has MRBC backed bounties on rogue mercs . . . and usually its not just the CO, there is a price on other officers or even regular troopers depending on how infamous the unit is . . .
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: Two Guns Blazing on 13 May 2019, 23:02:28
I guess it depends on who the employer is, and their financial means and their access to other resources, but I can't help but think that a confidential assassination contract would be much more preferable and effective than a simple bounty.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: General308 on 15 May 2019, 12:09:53
I guess it depends on who the employer is, and their financial means and their access to other resources, but I can't help but think that a confidential assassination contract would be much more preferable and effective than a simple bounty.

Maybe they would be more effective.  But BattleTech has a long history of using Bounty hunters for this type of work
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: Colt Ward on 15 May 2019, 12:14:57
Or at least offering bounties on offending merc units.  Basically 'modern' head money from when soldiers & sailors earned money from ransoms or as payoffs from their state for capturing the enemy.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 15 May 2019, 12:15:16
Seems like a lot of work to get rid of a pasta strainer.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: Col Toda on 15 May 2019, 12:35:43
Depends on who you want to do it and your timetable . For Bounty Hunter to do it say 4 million per 30 lightyear jump to get to the target and another 8-20 million fee on top of that . Even if the unit could pay 2X. That in retribition bounty on Bounty Hunter the mantle of Bounty Hunter is just passed on to the next in line .

More often a local skip tracer or other proffessional who happens to be where the target is takes the contract . Dead the head is sent in a dry Ice Box . Alive is a little trickier . Generally some version of buy correct size body from a morge arrange a fiery vehicle crash and send the target in medically induced coma with fake id paperwork saying he is joe. Q rich guy seeking medical care in another system . If the mercenaries are really sharp they will twig on the switch inside maybe 8 hours after they get the body . By then the target maybe out of the system . Say 800 C bills for a John Doe body. 3000-6000 per month for 3 medical professionals for transit 15-30 tousand for forged paperwork and bribes to local law enforcement to delay turning over the body plus transit passage fees . If the unit's internal security is really lax and sloppy they hold a funeral promote everyone and find out the CO is on trial in a press release .

A regular house unit may very well turn in a mercenary for a bounty vs ransom to the MRBC . So dead minimum 20,000 for as long as it takes in this case .

Princes , Warlords and Captains of indusry have the kind of deep pockets to hire Bounty Hunter to parade target for some gain .  Typical Attorney General.will do the 20000 as long as it takes .  The proffessional local making good typically 1 - 6 million.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: idea weenie on 16 May 2019, 19:26:49
Seems like a lot of work to get rid of a pasta strainer.

It may take a few days, but you can do it if you clear your colander first
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: Two Guns Blazing on 17 May 2019, 01:59:49
I've been thinking a bit more about this...

I see a "Bounty" as a reward (doesn't have to be financial) given in payment for achieving some goal, like providing information on a criminal, the capture of a wanted person, the return of an item etc, etc, but in each case, it is a widely advertised goal, so everyone knows about it, even the people who are the subject of the bounty.

Then I think, if you really want someone dead, like say a Merc leader, or even an entire Merc unit, why would you advertise it, so that they had an opportunity to prepare, take pre-emptive action against you, run away and avoid etc, etc. It is counter productive to achieving your goal...it would be much easier and provide a higher level of success if you confidentially contracted someone to do the job, or if you were a governmental body, allocate the job to a special forces or intelligence team.

In saying that though, if you didn't have the resources to organise an assassination for whatever reason, then a bounty would still be better than nothing.

Another good reason for a bounty being offered, is if you think there is a good chance that some associates of your target, would have a price tag where they would betray their associate.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: Colt Ward on 17 May 2019, 09:20:57
Still no body seems to have looked at FM Mercs Update . . . yeah, the MRBC put out bounties on a variety of rogue mercs and those known to be steady/constant employ of the Blakists.  They offered IIRC money for units involved in the attacks on Outreach and other early Blakist actions, as well as soliciting more information about other Blakist actors.

IIRC there is also a section in contract negotiations to include bounties . . . I did it with a contract in the Chaos March where the SB hints at a world's ruler having his own dedicated raider unit stealing from neighboring planets to improve his own planet.  So when the contract called for the mercs to make their counterstrike, that clause included a bounty on all confirmed members of that raider battalion but not on the run of the mill militia that might end up defending objectives on the world.  The bounties, set on the FM Mercs U model, were a couple of ten thousand and scaling up for officers so they also offer a incentive to engage the raider battalion rather than avoid or let them retreat.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: massey on 17 May 2019, 09:56:23
I guess it really depends on the target, the time frame, and how much you care about the likelihood of success.  There are people in real life who hire "hitmen" on Craigslist to go murder people.  Often it turns out to be an FBI agent in disguise, but sometimes it's actually a person willing to go shoot somebody.  I've seen news reports where the prices on this can be dirt cheap, like a hundred bucks.  I don't think that money would get you somebody competent, but what do you expect for that much?

So let's say that you are Count Vlad von Schemer.  Major Victory and the Hero Battalion have been a thorn in your side for too long.  You want to put a bounty on his head, but you don't want to spend a lot of money.  What kind of results can you expect from each price tier?  (This isn't necessarily how much you're offering, but how much you're spending)

100 C-bills or less:  A guy who lives in a trailer park near the merc base will agree to go to Major Victory's house, kick in the door, and shoot him.  He'll probably be high when he does it, and he may or may not remember to wear a mask.  Likelihood of success: less than 1%.  He'll almost assuredly be caught, probably before he even gets on the base.  But the good news is, you aren't out a lot of money.  You could hire guys like this all day.

1,000 C-bills:  You could put a whole team of trailer park guys together.  Get them a cheap van, and the next time Major Victory is out in public, they'll drive up next to him, yank him into the van, and drive off.  Or they can shoot him if you like that better.  Likelihood of success:  1%.  In all probability, Major Victory is armed, and these guys are just gonna get shot.  Total amateur hour here.

5,000 C-bills:  Now you're talking a nice chunk of change for a normal person.  You might actually get a mob or cartel enforcer or two with this kind of money.  They have experience with this sort of job, but generally not on such a well defended target.  If Major Victory has a coke habit or something, or maybe he likes the hookers, you might be able to catch him off guard.  Wait until he goes up to the hotel room with the sultry redhead you sent down, and then Vinny and Tony club him in the back of the head.  Likelihood of success:  completely depends on target.  Could be pretty good if everything goes right.  If you've previously had a failed attempt, odds are very low because he'll be on his guard.  If he has no easy to abuse character flaws, odds are even lower.  This is the first level where it might actually work though.  If he has the right character traits, maybe 30%?

25,000 C-bills:  At this point you could probably hire a small team of professionals.  We aren't talking crack military experts, we're talking basic regular infantry.  You might get a squad of foot infantry from a nearby merc unit who are willing to take a side job.  This is well above normal rates to hire infantry, particularly since it's one night's work, but they're also subject to far more risk since they're guaranteed to engage the enemy and they have no backup.  I'm presuming a nighttime raid on Major Victory's base, sneaking in, grabbing him, and sneaking out.  Likelihood of success: 10%.  For this price, you aren't really getting the guys with the right skills.  They're probably gonna trip an alarm and get into a firefight.  If they were really good enough to do this, they'd charge a lot more, so you're really getting guys who think they're better than they really are (and so they're bad at calculating the odds).

100,000 C-bills and up:  Now you start being able to pay off multiple people so that your odds of success go up.  The astech working for the Hero Battalion who has a lot of gambling debts, maybe he has to shut off the security system for a few minutes to rewire something.  A security guard who feels like he missed his shot at the big time, maybe a few grand in his pocket will convince him to deliver a package, or wave in a delivery truck at the checkpoint.  I'd say this is the first level where you can have some reasonable chance of success.

Million C-bills and up (way, way up):  This is when you can start getting battlefield units to intentionally target Major Victory.  Maybe a lance of Jenners comes in during a battle and tries to cut his mech out from under him.  But he's probably going to be in a really tough mech, and they'll get all his attention.  A single lost mech is very expensive, and you're sending them into a meat grinder, guaranteed.  They're going to charge a lot for this.


Note that all this is still super dangerous.  If the Hero Battalion finds out what you're doing, you've got an entire battalion coming down on you.  They've got a lot of resources, and they can hire assassins too.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: massey on 17 May 2019, 09:58:51
Still no body seems to have looked at FM Mercs Update . . . yeah, the MRBC put out bounties on a variety of rogue mercs and those known to be steady/constant employ of the Blakists.  They offered IIRC money for units involved in the attacks on Outreach and other early Blakist actions, as well as soliciting more information about other Blakist actors.

IIRC there is also a section in contract negotiations to include bounties . . . I did it with a contract in the Chaos March where the SB hints at a world's ruler having his own dedicated raider unit stealing from neighboring planets to improve his own planet.  So when the contract called for the mercs to make their counterstrike, that clause included a bounty on all confirmed members of that raider battalion but not on the run of the mill militia that might end up defending objectives on the world.  The bounties, set on the FM Mercs U model, were a couple of ten thousand and scaling up for officers so they also offer a incentive to engage the raider battalion rather than avoid or let them retreat.

I think that's too low.   Now, maybe they were hoping to just get some guys for cheap, but I think the price should be way higher because you know going in that you're going to engage the target.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: Kovax on 17 May 2019, 10:26:29
I'd assess it a bit differently.

At the pocket change level, you're doing little more than making a public statement that you're mad at the individual, and anything that comes of it is purely accidental, like that guy from the trailer park who thinks he can make enough cash for a whole week's worth of beer.  If it succeeds, that's ridiculously cheap and easy for you.  When it almost inevitably fails, you just shrug and ignore it.

In the "few thousand" realm, you're still not going to get any serious professionals to take the job, but you might tempt a MechWarrior or vehicle gunner to change their target priorities a little bit for a couple of shots, the next time that the target's unit is in combat.  If some insider has enough of a grudge, you may tip them over the edge and wind up with the target dead instead of them, but it's unlikely.

Once you hit the "hundreds of thousands" realm, the professionals on the planet with the target may start taking a serious look at the possibilities, and if they can find a way to do it without too much risk, your target is going to either need to maintain some kind of personal security or have an accident when he/she least expects it.  Opposing Mechwarriors may take that into consideration in a battle if the opportunity arises, to earn a enough side money to retire a couple of years early, but they're not going to put the whole mission at risk or take unnecessary chances for a relatively small sum in comparison to the potential damage in return.

In the "millions" range, now it starts drawing serious interest from a lot of people, and the target has to watch his/her back 24/7 and hire bodyguards he or she can trust implicitly.  A mercenary unit might adjust plans to accommodate an attack on the command lance because it's got valid military reasons AND a nice bonus, even if it's not enough of a reason by itself.  At this level of bounty, the target is LIKELY to end up dead, it's just a matter of "when" until the opportunity happens and someone capitalizes on it.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: Colt Ward on 17 May 2019, 11:06:21
Okay, I think some terms are also being conflated . . .

A bounty is open to anyone.  Its not like a contracted assassination.  Its posting to MercNet- 50k c-bills for Captain Dan Pantsless, alive & functional- reasonable expenses in return transport will be covered.  You do not have to mention you want him alive for the shotgun wedding b/c he knocked up your noble daughter.  Probably not going to get much traction if its at very much distance.  I do not recall how much the Bounty Hunter got paid to drag someone back, but I remember that he was getting paid a couple of different ways- but IIRC that bounty was a specific commission so not quite the same.

The bounties listed in FMU were not assault/kill contracts . . . nothing was covered and nothing else was paid out.  You turned over the members of units like Vinson's Vigilantes, Broadsword Legion, and others to the MRBC to get paid which unless it conflicted with your primary contract was legal and a side line.  Say you are on a contract pirate hunting sweep by the Outworlds Alliance and they do not care about prisoners . . . when you stumble across a company of Vinson's Vigilantes in one of the target systems you wipe them out.  So you get paid for the sweep, and you get paid for survivors (more for the officer than the basic trooper) of the Vigilantes company.

Now if Trillian placed a 500 mil c-bill bounty on Vedet Brewer (note, preferably dead) . . . well, its going to be like Smokin' Aces (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0475394/) or the last two John Wick movies where hitmen and wannabes start coming out of the woodwork.

And unlike a regular mercenary contract, NOTHING is paid out without either the target being handed over alive, a body, or some damn good proof the target is a couple ounces of carbon ash.  Heck, the money might not even be put in escrow!  But I think it would with a officially released MRBC bounty.  Its also not typically going to cover things like 'expenses.'
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: epic on 17 May 2019, 13:52:03
Come to think of it... we have other examples of bounties.  In canon, no less.

I'm talking about BoK Volume 3.  Where Kai fake turns in the body of a mechwarrior, and while he gets stiffed, it's for a couple hundred cbills.  That's for bounties of a low rank mechwarrior, dead. 

I like the idea of the bounty being extra icing on the cake for a merc unit.  First defeat it, get your salvage and regular pay, and then find out if there are any outstanding bounties on members that could pay additionally. 

In my last campaign, captured prisoners could be ransomed back and often would be for the equivalent of several months pay, rank dependent (thus, higher ranked individuals got the unit better pay).  That was assuming there was no need for a prisoner exchange.  It's not a huge sum as far as merc units go, but every little bit helps.  However, faced with possible bounties, the enterprising merc could exchange some prisoners while sending some prisoners instead to the MRBC. 
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: Sir Chaos on 17 May 2019, 14:32:46
Come to think of it... we have other examples of bounties.  In canon, no less.

I'm talking about BoK Volume 3.  Where Kai fake turns in the body of a mechwarrior, and while he gets stiffed, it's for a couple hundred cbills.  That's for bounties of a low rank mechwarrior, dead. 

On the other hand, that was a bounty for bringing in stragglers roaming the countryside on their own, armed at best with a handgun - not for members of an intact combat unit is reasonably powerful ´Mechs.

IMHO the bounty for a wanted combat unit would *start* at 100% battle loss compensation, because you´re risking serious damage to your own equipment if you engage them. And next to the value of the potential salvage, any cash reward would have to be enormeous to make a difference.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: General308 on 17 May 2019, 20:04:25
On the other hand, that was a bounty for bringing in stragglers roaming the countryside on their own, armed at best with a handgun - not for members of an intact combat unit is reasonably powerful ´Mechs.

IMHO the bounty for a wanted combat unit would *start* at 100% battle loss compensation, because you´re risking serious damage to your own equipment if you engage them. And next to the value of the potential salvage, any cash reward would have to be enormeous to make a difference.

This is why picking the number for this is hard.  Because what I have read is clear.  Bounty hunters get the Bounty no other expenses paid. Which is why I am having trouble with this.  I want a bounty big enough were someone would go after a mech commander in his mech.   It would be a dead or alive contract.  More for Alive of course.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: massey on 17 May 2019, 23:21:03
This is why picking the number for this is hard.  Because what I have read is clear.  Bounty hunters get the Bounty no other expenses paid. Which is why I am having trouble with this.  I want a bounty big enough were someone would go after a mech commander in his mech.   It would be a dead or alive contract.  More for Alive of course.

Here's the deal.  If you are the GM of a game, and an NPC is setting a bounty so that NPC bounty hunters attack the PCs, then don't worry about the number.  The bad guys just laugh when they attack the PCs and say "you wouldn't believe how much they're paying us!" and leave it at that.

If you're trying to tempt the PCs into attacking an NPC merc commander, then put them in a tight money situation and have the bounty be enough to get them out of it.  Simple enough.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: epic on 18 May 2019, 10:51:13
This is why picking the number for this is hard.  Because what I have read is clear.  Bounty hunters get the Bounty no other expenses paid. Which is why I am having trouble with this.  I want a bounty big enough were someone would go after a mech commander in his mech.   It would be a dead or alive contract.  More for Alive of course.

If this is the case, really, you're just looking at a standard merc contract (extraction).  And give the employer a small penalty at the contract table as negotiating wise, they have made it personal. 

The extraction part is the bounty target.  There's a bonus/penalty clause if the target is dead though. 
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: Colt Ward on 18 May 2019, 11:07:57
Hm, you know it does raise a question though . . .

What would invasions be like if the losing House posted a general bounty on the enemy?  For example, Sun-Tzu is really upset about the Eridani Light Horse under Star League aegis dropped on to Milos to try to get it back into the SIC fold.  Besides having his Death Commando/Mask team on planet, the Mask rep has the authorization to offer 500 L-bills for each proven dead ELH grunt/vehicle crewman . . . 1000 for a NCO . . . 1500 for a officer . . . 2500 for a field grade officer . . . and 5000 for a regimental officer.

They thought it was bad when the Cappies were sniping, how bad would it be if the population was trying to cash in.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: General308 on 18 May 2019, 17:36:09
If this is the case, really, you're just looking at a standard merc contract (extraction).  And give the employer a small penalty at the contract table as negotiating wise, they have made it personal. 

The extraction part is the bounty target.  There's a bonus/penalty clause if the target is dead though.

Again not how bounty hunters work in BattleTech.  Bounties are non exclusive contracts.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: SCC on 18 May 2019, 20:11:12
Hm, you know it does raise a question though . . .

What would invasions be like if the losing House posted a general bounty on the enemy?  For example, Sun-Tzu is really upset about the Eridani Light Horse under Star League aegis dropped on to Milos to try to get it back into the SIC fold.  Besides having his Death Commando/Mask team on planet, the Mask rep has the authorization to offer 500 L-bills for each proven dead ELH grunt/vehicle crewman . . . 1000 for a NCO . . . 1500 for a officer . . . 2500 for a field grade officer . . . and 5000 for a regimental officer.

They thought it was bad when the Cappies were sniping, how bad would it be if the population was trying to cash in.
This is quite possibly illegal, or at the very least problematic because it would turn every civilian on the planet into a lawful combatant.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: Mohammed As`Zaman Bey on 18 May 2019, 20:43:51
 All of my BT characters wears a token that gives the bearer a minimum of 1 million CBills ransom for the safe return of that character, plus a portion of his 'mech's value, if returned. My commanders are insured for around 3 million in ransom payment. An enemy had better be ready to pay through the nose for one of my characters.

  Unit-wise, all officers are subsidized for up to a million in ransom, while all lead techs are given equal value. All other personnel are valued at 3 to 5 year's pay.

  When one unit gained Clan pilots as employees, the ransoms jumped to the 5 million range.

  A good ransom system, with cash in escrow for immediate, confirmed payment after an exchange, makes your personnel far more valuable to be captured and returned alive and unharmed. Coupled with a guarantee of rapid retaliation, most bounty hunters would think twice about targeting my people.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: The_Caveman on 18 May 2019, 20:47:39
This is quite possibly illegal, or at the very least problematic because it would turn every civilian on the planet into a lawful combatant.

And that's totally something Liao would do. You might not want to advertise it publicly, but word of mouth will spread quickly among the civilian populace.

All of my BT characters wears a token that gives the bearer a minimum of 1 million CBills ransom for the safe return of that character

Blood chits like that are basically the only way a merc unit can survive in a dirty war.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: Mohammed As`Zaman Bey on 18 May 2019, 21:16:25
This is quite possibly illegal, or at the very least problematic because it would turn every civilian on the planet into a lawful combatant.
  They would not be lawful. My commanders would hang any armed civilian anywhere near his unit, without trial.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: General308 on 18 May 2019, 22:52:22
  They would not be lawful. My commanders would hang any armed civilian anywhere near his unit, without trial.

Hanging armed civilians in a universe of armed civilians without trial? That would end well.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: Colt Ward on 18 May 2019, 23:45:14
Hanging armed civilians in a universe of armed civilians without trial? That would end well.

Might get a trial, but it would take 5 minutes . . . and honestly, that is part of what martial law sets up.  If you are in a area under martial law and out after curfew or caught with a weapon (much more serious) a individual MIGHT be taken into custody to be handed over to a field grade officer to pass sentence on.  Or the patrol could throw a rope over the nearest lamp post and string them up.  It happens, especially in war time since its done surrounding secure areas specifically to prevent armed guerillas/insurgents from getting close looking like the surrounding civvies.  If you are caught in the process of a hostile act out of uniform you are either a spy or a insurgent and as such under the Geneva (and later to be assumed Ares) Convention not given the protections of a enemy combatant and eligible to be executed.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: SCC on 19 May 2019, 00:02:47
And I doubt that owning weapons because it would be very calculated risk. Owning one could mean you're conscripted into someone's army, with likely lower pay then your previous civilian job and it's possible you don't get paid until your discharged and only if you survive. And owning one isn't going to protect you if a bunch of marauding pirates show up, never mind some guy in a 'Mech
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: Mohammed As`Zaman Bey on 19 May 2019, 01:12:23
Hanging armed civilians in a universe of armed civilians without trial? That would end well.


  Armed civilians are a rarity, even in so-called armed nations. The sheeple of the IS leave war to the professionals for the same reason they leave government to their nobles -That have no clue how either works.

Armed civilians looking to assassinate combatants are no different than pirates and are treated as pirates. No trial is required. If an enemy soldier is caught out of uniform, or worse, in the wrong uniform, summary execution by their captors is expected. If a civilian is playing soldier, the same applies. A trial is a needless formality when somebody is caught in the act.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: massey on 19 May 2019, 08:22:32
All of my BT characters wears a token that gives the bearer a minimum of 1 million CBills ransom for the safe return of that character, plus a portion of his 'mech's value, if returned. My commanders are insured for around 3 million in ransom payment. An enemy had better be ready to pay through the nose for one of my characters.

  Unit-wise, all officers are subsidized for up to a million in ransom, while all lead techs are given equal value. All other personnel are valued at 3 to 5 year's pay.

  When one unit gained Clan pilots as employees, the ransoms jumped to the 5 million range.

  A good ransom system, with cash in escrow for immediate, confirmed payment after an exchange, makes your personnel far more valuable to be captured and returned alive and unharmed. Coupled with a guarantee of rapid retaliation, most bounty hunters would think twice about targeting my people.

Sounds like a recipe for disaster.  Your unit will always be a target for bounty hunters and kidnappers, even if there's no bounty.  You basically just put a million dollar bounty on yourself.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: General308 on 19 May 2019, 09:33:05
Sounds like a recipe for disaster.  Your unit will always be a target for bounty hunters and kidnappers, even if there's no bounty.  You basically just put a million dollar bounty on yourself.

What he is doing is going from  a bounty that has no legal authority to likely a House making him a Rouge unit.  Which makes going after him Legal.   Unless he is somewere like the Combine pre 3025 and in that case he might get promoted.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: massey on 19 May 2019, 13:41:59
What he is doing is going from  a bounty that has no legal authority to likely a House making him a Rouge unit.  Which makes going after him Legal.   Unless he is somewere like the Combine pre 3025 and in that case he might get promoted.

Executing civilians?  Yeah potentially.  I'm just talking about having an insurance policy that guarantees million+ C-Bill payouts, as well as a share of his mech.  Now every single person in his unit is a target of opportunity for anyone who cares to take a shot.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: The_Caveman on 19 May 2019, 19:35:05
Executing civilians?  Yeah potentially.  I'm just talking about having an insurance policy that guarantees million+ C-Bill payouts, as well as a share of his mech.  Now every single person in his unit is a target of opportunity for anyone who cares to take a shot.

Generally speaking, the values of K&R policies are not publicly advertised. Unless your MW is an idiot who goes around flashing his million C-bill blood chit at every dive bar, he's not in any more danger of being kidnapped than he would be without a guaranteed ransom.

And like any insurance policy, it's not going to pay out in the case of fraud. If somebody starts slipping mercs the Mickey and trying to ransom them back to their units, that person is more than likely going to be rewarded with a bullet rather than a payout.

The point of a policy like that is it greatly incentivizes civilian bystanders to help a stranded merc rather than hand him over to the enemy. A million C-bills is more than the average IS worker will earn in a lifetime.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: Mohammed As`Zaman Bey on 19 May 2019, 19:53:17
Sounds like a recipe for disaster.  Your unit will always be a target for bounty hunters and kidnappers, even if there's no bounty.  You basically just put a million dollar bounty on yourself.
  So far, nobody has tried and the ransom is widely known. To get to my current character, a would-be bounty hunter would have to get past either the DCMS or the Clans, as he usually operates behind Clan lines, when he's not on base. He's open to duels, though, but nobody has taken him up on that yet. A professional bounty hunter would decline because a million CBills isn't worth the risks, while none of the wannabe bounty hunters could even locate him.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: General308 on 19 May 2019, 22:12:17
  So far, nobody has tried and the ransom is widely known. To get to my current character, a would-be bounty hunter would have to get past either the DCMS or the Clans, as he usually operates behind Clan lines, when he's not on base. He's open to duels, though, but nobody has taken him up on that yet. A professional bounty hunter would decline because a million CBills isn't worth the risks, while none of the wannabe bounty hunters could even locate him.

Your right for one million a professional bounty hunter wouldn't take the risk.   How many people are in your unit with how many Million cbill chits?  Sounds like someone could make a fortune off you. I can imagine the Yukuza in the Combine would live you.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 20 May 2019, 07:43:44


  Armed civilians are a rarity, even in so-called armed nations.

There are plenty of references to folks in the BattleTech universe hunting with weapons.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: Mohammed As`Zaman Bey on 20 May 2019, 14:30:44
Your right for one million a professional bounty hunter wouldn't take the risk.   How many people are in your unit with how many Million cbill chits?  Sounds like someone could make a fortune off you. I can imagine the Yukuza in the Combine would live you.
  50 pilots, 60 million. 5 techs at 15 million (my techs are worth more). Yes, somebody could make a fortune but none even tried, because of the risks involved. Even the Yakuza know enough to avoid messing with the Azami.

  As a GM, I've had players use the same system. One player cost his unit 4 million in ransom after being captured by insurgents; the same unit had a DS crash behind enemy lines and paid 30 million for the return of a company, minus mechs. But these were all battle incidents, and expected. No bounty hunters or assassins have ever gotten past unit security, which is amazing, considering the other ransoms were all due to poor decisions on the part of the the players.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: General308 on 20 May 2019, 21:13:42
  50 pilots, 60 million. 5 techs at 15 million (my techs are worth more). Yes, somebody could make a fortune but none even tried, because of the risks involved. Even the Yakuza know enough to avoid messing with the Azami.

  As a GM, I've had players use the same system. One player cost his unit 4 million in ransom after being captured by insurgents; the same unit had a DS crash behind enemy lines and paid 30 million for the return of a company, minus mechs. But these were all battle incidents, and expected. No bounty hunters or assassins have ever gotten past unit security, which is amazing, considering the other ransoms were all due to poor decisions on the part of the the players.

So $75 million.  LOL..That is a legit merc Contract at that point.   If your GM doesn't have someone coming after you for $75  million then your GM isn't doing his job in my opinion.  That is too big a target.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: Colt Ward on 20 May 2019, 22:14:24
Only if you have a legitimate actor, otherwise its kidnapping, piracy and assault.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: SCC on 21 May 2019, 00:38:19
There are plenty of references to folks in the BattleTech universe hunting with weapons.
I think this might be a case of Creator Provincialism (see TvTropes for details) because that is NOT something that happens anywhere else in the world, or in the historical period that BT is modeled off of.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: Two Guns Blazing on 21 May 2019, 01:36:55
I think this might be a case of Creator Provincialism (see TvTropes for details) because that is NOT something that happens anywhere else in the world, or in the historical period that BT is modeled off of.

It may be a case of Creator Provincialism, and if it is, it is coincidentally correct. More likely though, the writers knew that hunting is not uncommon in human culture and does indeed happen in most parts of the world.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: The_Caveman on 21 May 2019, 02:05:05
It's Creator Provincialism in the sense that the entire BT universe has a distinctly American flavor save for the parts that are deliberately Otherized to make them natural villains (DC, CC, Clans).

But given the low populations and the sheer number of dangerous predator species in the Inner Sphere it would be downright weird if the "free" nations totally suppress gun or hunting rights. It's a bit goofy to be arresting people for shooting the king's deer when the whole planet is roped off.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: SCC on 21 May 2019, 02:41:44
But given the low populations and the sheer number of dangerous predator species in the Inner Sphere it would be downright weird if the "free" nations totally suppress gun or hunting rights. It's a bit goofy to be arresting people for shooting the king's deer when the whole planet is roped off.
I'm thinking more that nobles tend to be afraid of revolts and so restrict weapons ownership to try and prevent them.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: Elmoth on 21 May 2019, 02:51:58
When you have a mech, a few guys with rifles shoudn'0t be much of an issue. BT is a militarized society, in the sense that nobles have armed troops with them. it is also a dangerous universe in a lot of places, ewith predators all around. IIRC there is a planet background wherte you are thought to be a fool (or a breakfast) if you do not carry a large caliber gun to go for a stroll in the hills.

Armed populations, while distinctly US-centric are also quite understandable given the setting. What is not so easily understood is the fac tthat larg epredators are present in most planets if you consider that they must have been terraformed, with big predators introduced by humankind.

Armed populations also make for good recruit pools for infantry.

Cheers,
Xavi
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: Two Guns Blazing on 21 May 2019, 03:18:42
I do recall when Kai was on the run on Alyina during the Clan Invasion, he was at one point being hunted by local "Bounty Hunters", who were simply well-armed citizens, and it was inferred that there were many of these armed citizens searching their own designated areas in the hopes of receiving bounties (payable by Comstar) available through the capture of not just Kai, but also other FC troops on the run.

Also, the people he was hiding out with were armed farmers.

In terms of gun ownership in our current real-world period, although the US is more gun-centric than most nations, it is absolutely not true to say that the majority of other countries around the world do not have significant rates of gun ownership.

Back to the BT setting...I do take SCC's point about planetary leaders being fearful of gun ownership rates among their populace and perhaps having a desire to restrict certain weapons or the number of weapons. As a counter point to that, I wonder if when one faction is wanting to take control of another faction's planets (not just raid, or damage, but actually take control of with the view to owning it for the long term), if they would be deterred, or at the very least be forced to allocate more resources to the taking of the planet, if the citizenry were well armed with personal firearms and posed a potential resistance threat.

Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: SCC on 21 May 2019, 03:23:09
When you have a mech, a few guys with rifles shoudn'0t be much of an issue. BT is a militarized society, in the sense that nobles have armed troops with them. it is also a dangerous universe in a lot of places, ewith predators all around. IIRC there is a planet background wherte you are thought to be a fool (or a breakfast) if you do not carry a large caliber gun to go for a stroll in the hills.
Pretty sure this clashes with one of the defining points of Hiring Halls being that they are comfortable with having large numbers of heavily armed people wondering around.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: The_Caveman on 21 May 2019, 03:24:51
The Fedsuns being what it is, I would expect them to have some retro-futuristic equivalent of the yeoman archer (the medieval soldiers, not the 'mechs). Ordinary citizens who are expected to drill with a rifle in case called up by their lord.

Pretty sure this clashes with one of the defining points of Hiring Halls being that they are comfortable with having large numbers of heavily armed people wondering around.

Big difference between gun-owning and gun-toting.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: SCC on 21 May 2019, 03:41:42
The Fedsuns being what it is, I would expect them to have some retro-futuristic equivalent of the yeoman archer (the medieval soldiers, not the 'mechs). Ordinary citizens who are expected to drill with a rifle in case called up by their lord.
Pretty sure they already do, as does every other house, it's called owning a 'Mech.

Big difference between gun-owning and gun-toting.
I was specifically responding to his comment about a planet where you get looked at funny for not having a gun.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: The_Caveman on 21 May 2019, 03:55:24
Pretty sure they already do, as does every other house, it's called owning a 'Mech.

Those are knights, not yeomen.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: AlphaMirage on 21 May 2019, 08:21:01
Those are knights, not yeomen.

No Knights have Mechs and MechWarrior training in exchange for service.  Those guys would be planetary or regional militia
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: massey on 21 May 2019, 08:40:36
Only if you have a legitimate actor, otherwise its kidnapping, piracy and assault.

I think I can find some minor noble somewhere to sign off on an attack for a share of $75 million C-Bills.  Or I can just buy myself a pardon afterward.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: The_Caveman on 21 May 2019, 08:41:20
If you can afford your own BattleMech and the facilities to maintain it, you are almost certainly at least a knight if not some other minor noble. If for no other reason than the local baron would consider it wise to have you as a loyal retainer. And while many planets probably allow some form of weapon ownership, it is very difficult to imagine ordinary citizens being allowed to keep functional BattleMechs in any era--if for liability reasons alone.

While there are plenty of stories of people hiding Commandos away in their barns, those machines are hidden for good reason. Think of it like the guy with the giant sea mine in his garden shed in Hot Fuzz.

Exceptions being mercenaries, who pay hefty guild dues to the MRB/MRBC (who are probably filing local license paperwork on their behalf), and gladiator worlds which tend to have a more devil-may-care approach to law and order to begin with.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: massey on 21 May 2019, 11:43:42
If you can afford your own BattleMech and the facilities to maintain it, you are almost certainly at least a knight if not some other minor noble. If for no other reason than the local baron would consider it wise to have you as a loyal retainer. And while many planets probably allow some form of weapon ownership, it is very difficult to imagine ordinary citizens being allowed to keep functional BattleMechs in any era--if for liability reasons alone.

While there are plenty of stories of people hiding Commandos away in their barns, those machines are hidden for good reason. Think of it like the guy with the giant sea mine in his garden shed in Hot Fuzz.

Exceptions being mercenaries, who pay hefty guild dues to the MRB/MRBC (who are probably filing local license paperwork on their behalf), and gladiator worlds which tend to have a more devil-may-care approach to law and order to begin with.

We're drifting a bit, but my head-canon is that there's sort of a circular relationship between nobles and mercenary units.

If you're a rich noble, what do you do about your second and third sons, the ones who aren't going to inherit land?  Well you either send them off to ComStar (functioning as the priesthood in our pseudo-medieval society), or you get them a commission in a prestigious unit (you go off with your Marauder and join the Davion Heavy Guards as a Captain or something), or you have them start a mercenary unit.

As a merc, hopefully you're successful.  You get rich, you conquer some territory, you earn yourself a title.  So if you're the third son of Count Jimbo von Doofus, your dad scrapes together a reinforced lance of medium mechs and sends you off to make your fortune.  After 25 years of fighting around the Inner Sphere, you've built that lance into two mech companies, and you see your big chance.  There's an invasion coming on some border world, and if they take it they'll need somebody to hold and administer the southern continent.  So you pull some strings and pledge allegiance to the Duke, you hire another merc company to back you up, and now you're Baron Steve von Doofus of the southern continent of Mudball IV.  You retire from being a mercenary and you settle in to rule your little border world.

If you're just some peon who happens to find a Whitworth at the bottom of grandpa's pond?  Well then you keep it quiet until you see your chance.  If you can get the thing up and running, and kinda learn to pilot it, then it's extremely valuable.  But if you let the local authorities know, somebody's probably gonna show up and take it from you.  "Thank you for your patriotic contribution to Baron von Doofus' defense of our world."  That's another reason why you join a mercenary unit.  When the Hell's Satans mech company is getting ready to redeploy off world, you've already met with Captain Harley Davidson and arranged to leave with him.  Rather than just walking your mech across the city to the drop port, you probably have a transport truck come out to the farm and load it up (along with some security you hired to make sure Hell's Satans don't rob you blind).  You get a contract and everything drawn up at the local ComStar center, and now you're officially part of the unit.

But anyway, there's be this circular relationship there.  Most merc units would have some connection to a noble somewhere, at least mech units.  It wouldn't be hard to get justification to attack somebody who had a big juicy insurance policy.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: massey on 21 May 2019, 12:00:05
To follow up (but more off-topic), I think this is one of those ideas that one gaming group thinks is absolutely brilliant, but doesn't survive contact with people outside the group.  That happens sometimes.  Somebody in the group comes up with what they think is a great idea, the GM buys it and so allows it to work, and nobody else says anything contradictory (either because they don't see any problems, or because they know once the GM is sold there's no point in arguing).

A lot of the setting for the game RIFTS is based on Kevin Siembieda's (the owner of the company) personal rpg campaign.  If Kevin likes an idea, it makes it into print and now it's official.  You can see in his game notes how he thinks the game should be played.  If he doesn't want a player to have a particular piece of equipment, he usually makes it super expensive.  One example was this magical amulet carried by his warrior assassin women that created a force field 3 times a day.  By itself it was kinda nice, but particularly powerful.  But he didn't want players to get them, so he said they sold on the black market for 10 million credits apiece.  Okay, no big deal.  Warrior assassin women are tough, you don't want to encounter them.  But then he creates this city where every member of the town militia and police force carried these magic amulets.  I guess he wanted to show how rich the city was, and that they had a secret connection to the assassin women's masters.

But really it just meant that there was a near infinite supply of money if your character could just rob the local 1st level cops of their magic amulets.  There were thousands of them, and he was specific that they wore them all the time.  I don't know what he was going for, but what he created was an easy get rich quick scheme.  Our group immediately wanted to take advantage of it, requiring the GM to say "no, I'm changing the setting, they don't have any of that stuff".  I don't know if anybody in Kevin's group tried it.

I think this kidnapping insurance is basically the same thing, down to the little amulets they wear.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: Colt Ward on 21 May 2019, 12:39:04
Funny you should mention kidnapping insurance . . . because that is a real world thing, and DOES happen overseas when execs or talent goes to the worlds crappiest destinations.

Why is it done?  Because that is one way you get people to go there to work- besides paying for expensive security on those people.  Private apartment towers with a fortified lobby (BP glass, metal barricades, limited access through main door, security desk with two armed guards holding pump shotguns & body armor), electronic controlled lock-style door to the garage with walled off ramp under security cameras, security room with video monitors & ready response security team, roving patrols on ground level and in garage, and mag card access to stairwells & elevator to go up.  Probably more that I did not see, but as a teenager it was a bit weird to walk out of the building and be followed two blocks by a SWAT level geared guard until I caught a cab- as the kid of one of the contracted exec level techs.

So IRL kidnapping insurance exists and is a viable business- but the above level of security was probably a requirement for the written policy for the telecom my dad worked for at the time.  Funny enough, I saw the movie Proof of Life 4 or 5 years later and wondered why the setting looked familiar . . .

He worked for another tech company with contracts in Nigeria, Yemen, and a few other holes in that area- mostly short duration instead of living on site for years.  I know that company had some problems with kidnapping insurance after someone got grabbed in Yemen which led to the company going bankrupt.  My mom freaked when the company was talking about changing the kidnapping insurance policy & terms.  Lol, we did NOT talk to her about some of the DoD hostage stuff he went through for Afghanistan.

Having a ransom policy is a solid idea- and of course with the way mercs are, its probably self-financed just like their life insurance & health care.  Its not something you are going to broadcast on the planet's media when you take that parade from the spaceport to the garrison base ("Here is a Lyran Zeus walking down the street Martha, built on Defiance its one of the larger mechs these mercs have.  Interesting fact, it and the owner-pilot are covered by a 5 mil ransom if they are ever taken captive in battle.  Next up is the Hanse Davion High School Marching Band, winners of the 3045 Planetary Band Competition!").

IIRC my history, several Middle Ages battles had prisoners separated out between those who were expected to be able to afford a ransom vs those who could not.  Things did not go well for those who could not be expected to pay ransom . . . like being sold into slavery.  So having a ComStar verified chit- maybe a holoseal or whatever could not be forged form them- anyone can take to the local ComStar office and verify X amount is in escrow for the safe return of the warrior & mech makes some sense.  Especially in a interstellar setting.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: Mohammed As`Zaman Bey on 21 May 2019, 22:01:28
So $75 million.  LOL..That is a legit merc Contract at that point.   If your GM doesn't have someone coming after you for $75  million then your GM isn't doing his job in my opinion.  That is too big a target.
  No, it isn't. Attacking a DCMS unit in their own ground is just suicide, and no hiring hall would even think about it, because failure means they wind up in an unmarked grave. You're talking about attacking a unit known for sending invitations to Clan units, for "training purposes"...and winning. You're talking about a unit that looks at Walcott as a vacation resort... Maybe, the commander could post a contract on his own unit to see what shows up. Thanks for the idea.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: The_Caveman on 21 May 2019, 22:43:11
You're talking about attacking a unit known for sending invitations to Clan units, for "training purposes"...and winning.

*coughmarysuecough*

Funny you should mention kidnapping insurance . . . because that is a real world thing, and DOES happen overseas when execs or talent goes to the worlds crappiest destinations.

Got a close friend who worked for a major oil company overseas. They had pretty detailed K&R policies and the thing was sufficiently hush-hush that I don't think even he knew what he was "worth". He certainly wouldn't tell us.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: Mohammed As`Zaman Bey on 22 May 2019, 03:13:19
*coughmarysuecough*


  You can blame the GM. Unless its a scenario with all the forces in print, he relies on the random tables for everything. That means, depending on how he rolls, you could face an elite assault unit or a green light unit, and everything in between; Balance was not in this guy's vocabulary. The GM is also a stickler for doctrine -If you are given a lance with a Spider, a Stinger, a Locust and an Urbanmech, you are no allowed to split up the lance or allow them to break formation. More than one unit was been crushed because a commander could not reorganize their unit after deployment. This rule has also hampered Clan units that were randomly combined. "That's how they were assigned, that's how they trained." There was no arguing.
Beginner players units get 2-3 training missions and have been annihilated on their first real tabletop battle. Some players won't accept a contract that didn't include their units at full strength while one player only took garrison contracts, or never entered a battle that he hadn't already won.
  Three players had their units participate on Luthien, so I played both IS and Clan, to the point that I memorized the scenarios. There were also random battles with random forces. One battle could have wave after wave charge IS lines until they all died, while another could have the Clans give up the field without committing half their forces' Random rolls will do that.
  My main advice for new his players was "Don't grow attached to your character." and "Once your unit reaches Crack, your survival is better than 50-50."
  My GM is a hard core BT player. He buys vehicles by the company and could field a battalion of Crabs. He has thousands of minis and has run regiment on regiment actions more than once, including huge battles without a single mech on the field.
  I'm sure if there were a table that had "bounty hunter" as a result, he would have used it, but he never strayed from the rules, even though I expected assassins, at the very least...but I wasn't going to bring it up.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: deathfrombeyond on 23 May 2019, 03:06:23
So, in a related topic, I believe I’ve said that the bounties listed in one of those mercenary updates for the jihad seemed a little on the light side for how dangerous their quarries are...
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: Two Guns Blazing on 23 May 2019, 03:27:58
I've finally got around to reading the short story that you get with the new beginner box set "Golden Rule: A Colby's Commandos Mission"...I'm only a few pages in so I'm not sure how hard the mission will turn out to be...but so far it seems to be a mission where they have to take their 2 lances (with potentially one of their Mechs out of action before accepting the mission), and lay the smack down on a warlord that seems to be threatening some mining interests on a very inhospitable planet 19 light years away (so a single jump???).

They accept the job with the offer of;

800,000 C-bills, + 110,000 C-bills per Mech + travel costs.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: Elmoth on 23 May 2019, 04:10:31
So roughly 1.8M cbills (2 lances) for that particular mission
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: Bosefius on 23 May 2019, 07:06:33
Re-reading TRO:3050 Upgrade it makes mention of several people with bounties on their head and the lowest price is 10 million C-bills.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: Two Guns Blazing on 23 May 2019, 07:21:29
So roughly 1.8M cbills (2 lances) for that particular mission

If they are including the damaged Thunderbolt that they own (and I guess the employer would not know if they took it or not), then the total would be 1,680,000 C-bills. If they didn't include the Thunderbolt (because they didn't use it in the mission), then the total would be 1,570,000 C-bills.

Not sure if that would be worth it, I'd want more, much more, especially when you consider the possible death or injury to your command and damage to and possible loss of your Mechs.

As it turns out (not giving too much away to ruin the story for those who haven't read it), they...obtain...some extremely significant "Salvage", which it is yet to be determined what they do with it (the story continues in the short story found in the new full-rules box set). If they end up keeping the "Salvage" then the mission would be incredibly fruitful through sheer luck...
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: truetanker on 23 May 2019, 07:31:27
"Luck" as you call it, is a GM's fiat.

Rule #1: The GM is master of all, their whim is a tale to behold.

Rule #2: See Rule  #1.

TT
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: Mohammed As`Zaman Bey on 23 May 2019, 17:43:29
So, in a related topic, I believe I’ve said that the bounties listed in one of those mercenary updates for the jihad seemed a little on the light side for how dangerous their quarries are...
  The thing is, anybody who owned a battlemech would be a target (or their immediate family), as they they had proof of wealth, in the form of a mech. Every mechwarrior (or family member) with their own machine would be fair game 24/7 due to that fact, whether they wore a blood chit or not.
  "Pay up, or we are sending your little girl home in installments, if you know what I mean, nya ha ha!"
  If mechwarriors were such fair game, so would bounty hunters capable of facing mechwarriors on the battlefield. It would be a feeding frenzy because bounty hunters would not have armed guards and trained units to back them up. The easy targets would be other bounty hunters, then solo mercs, with mechs or aero, who live in apartments without any guards or unit-owned facilities.
  One of my characters was a member of a merc unit that, when not on contract, ran like a 9 to 5 job; Check in, engage in regular online training, rent sim time, attend briefings, go to lunch, attend more BS stuff, then clock out. Warehouse and mech bays were all rented, living facilities were all on the unit employees. Of all the PC unit members, my character was the only one to hire body guards for himself and his family and use blood chits...but never once was the unit on Galatea bothered by anybody in ten game years...go figure.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: Colt Ward on 23 May 2019, 21:10:38
So, in a related topic, I believe I’ve said that the bounties listed in one of those mercenary updates for the jihad seemed a little on the light side for how dangerous their quarries are...

Thing is, its not a headhunting contract- its icing on the cake of whatever contract you ran into them on.  So its not the primary pay-off, just a encouragement to pound on them a little harder if you run into them.  Interesting note . . . the reward for Jesse James that brought him down (by conspiracy and murder) was $5000 . . . which is $125k today.  Apparently it was a common amount for some of the more notorious types.  The Mexican gov't in the 1830s & 1840s were paying $100 a head for a male Apache, $50 for a woman and $25 for a kid- no wonder they hated the Mexican state.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: The_Caveman on 23 May 2019, 21:43:51
Of all the PC unit members, my character was the only one to hire body guards for himself and his family and use blood chits...but never once was the unit on Galatea bothered by anybody in ten game years...go figure.

If you're hunting mercs on Galatea of all places, you'd better be a badass. Even the baristas at Starbucks have cockpit time on that planet and unless they have an active feud with the unit in question, pretty much everyone is going to react badly to the news that someone is targeting mercs. It'd be like killing a cop at a police convention.

On Mudball VI, yeah, it's a lot more dangerous to live outside a fortified compound.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: General308 on 23 May 2019, 21:45:39
  The thing is, anybody who owned a battlemech would be a target (or their immediate family), as they they had proof of wealth, in the form of a mech. Every mechwarrior (or family member) with their own machine would be fair game 24/7 due to that fact, whether they wore a blood chit or not.
  "Pay up, or we are sending your little girl home in installments, if you know what I mean, nya ha ha!"
  If mechwarriors were such fair game, so would bounty hunters capable of facing mechwarriors on the battlefield. It would be a feeding frenzy because bounty hunters would not have armed guards and trained units to back them up. The easy targets would be other bounty hunters, then solo mercs, with mechs or aero, who live in apartments without any guards or unit-owned facilities.
  One of my characters was a member of a merc unit that, when not on contract, ran like a 9 to 5 job; Check in, engage in regular online training, rent sim time, attend briefings, go to lunch, attend more BS stuff, then clock out. Warehouse and mech bays were all rented, living facilities were all on the unit employees. Of all the PC unit members, my character was the only one to hire body guards for himself and his family and use blood chits...but never once was the unit on Galatea bothered by anybody in ten game years...go figure.

Yes but this is the thing you said it is wide known that your unit has this chits.   It isn't that you have this insurance that is the problem.  It is that you have advertised it and let it be known.    There is a big difference in thinking I might get paid if I go after someone.  And knowing it you have created a situation were they would know it.

Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: deathfrombeyond on 24 May 2019, 02:01:29
Thing is, its not a headhunting contract- its icing on the cake of whatever contract you ran into them on.  So its not the primary pay-off, just a encouragement to pound on them a little harder if you run into them. 

I don't have access to that Jihad related mercenary book, but I vaguely remember mentions of some mercenary groups whose primary source of income was bounty hunting...so much so that multiple mercenary groups would cooperate in bounty acquisition.

Didn't make a lot of sense to me, especially with how low the bounty payouts seemed, compared to the cost of even getting to where the bounty target was, without factoring in the costs involved in combat, etc.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: Mohammed As`Zaman Bey on 24 May 2019, 05:10:52
Yes but this is the thing you said it is wide known that your unit has this chits.   It isn't that you have this insurance that is the problem.  It is that you have advertised it and let it be known.    There is a big difference in thinking I might get paid if I go after someone.  And knowing it you have created a situation were they would know it.
  That was the point. The average mechwarrior isn't even worth capturing -Kill him and take the mech. My unit's personnel were worth ransoming, to the point were even a sniper would think twice about pulling the trigger. If any of my characters were out of their mechs, they would either run or surrender. He was no grunt. As a mercenary, the commander was so cheap that  mechwarriors walked guard duty, when not in their machines. None of my characters drew ammunition, ever, because resisting capture was not part of his job. When the commander wanted to arm the techs, my character was the first to refuse: His tech was his employee, and forbidden to carry weapons. He was a tech, not a soldier. If he could not run, he was to surrender and wait for ransom.

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Didn't make a lot of sense to me, especially with how low the bounty payouts seemed, compared to the cost of even getting to where the bounty target was, without factoring in the costs involved in combat, etc.
  During the Medieval era, the two things that compensated for a battle were looting and ransoms. A noble who yielded in battle was hastily removed from the field because of their value to their families.

  In the BT universe, blood chits compensated civilians for preventing soldiers from being captured, and rewarded civil treatment of prisoners by opposing units. The idea of kidnappers stalking around a battlefield is ridiculous, I'd shoot them on sight, as looters. Nobody would travel several jumps, risk entering a war zone as a neutral, attack and capture a combatant, just for a cash reward. It doesn't happen, and I think my GM figured that out, too.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: Kovax on 24 May 2019, 10:47:21
Nobody would travel several jumps, risk entering a war zone as a neutral, attack and capture a combatant, just for a cash reward.
This is my take on it as well.  If you're already at war with the guy with the bounty, it's a little extra incentive to take his 'Mech out of action first, rather than take out his lance-mate and have him retreat to safety.  You'd probably shoot him or his 'Mech anyway, it merely adjusts the priorities.  It doesn't warrant sending men and equipment 30 light-years to some other planet to take on a combat unit just for the bounty, unless the bounty is well into the tens of millions.  It does inconvenience the individual with the bounty, because he does have to watch out constantly when NOT on the battlefield for that random dude from the local housing project or trailer park trying to make a few extra bucks without a clue about how to do so or the risks involved.  If the bounty is high enough, then he might have to worry about some local professional trying something whenever he's out and about on his own.
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: Two Guns Blazing on 24 May 2019, 19:44:40
Nobody would travel several jumps, risk entering a war zone as a neutral, attack and capture a combatant, just for a cash reward.

Famous last words...there are some very desperate people around that do a lot of crazy stuff for cash in real life on our planet...multiply that by the amount of people you have in the BT setting, and I think you'll find that there would be some candidates...
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: idea weenie on 24 May 2019, 22:44:41
The chit is a reward for returning the character to a Comstar location, alive and healthy, not merely a reward for kidnapping.  So if the character is kidnapped, and the character has a ~1M C-Bill chit, lots of people are going to try and find them to rescue them.  It makes any kidnapper's job much harder as all of the local population is now looking for their target.

You could even have an issue where if the rescuee chooses, there is an additional reward for the bodies of the kidnappers (or for the live capture of them).  Something like this on planet's evening news: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haThIxPnYro

Plus, if someone on the planet kidnaps one of your people, and it is supposed to be friendly or somewhat safe, word of that is going to get out and other mercs will want to beef up their contracts citing lack of local security.  Chances are the planetary ruler will pay the ~1M C-bill chit back to the merc unit, hoping that they don't leave a 1-star review "got kidnapped on the planet, would not guard again"
Title: Re: Let's talk bounty's
Post by: Sir Chaos on 25 May 2019, 03:41:56
The way I see it, there´s going to be two kinds of bounties.

The first kind are for things that are pretty much universally agreed to be war crimes - using NBC weapons, burning down a city for shit and giggles, talking in the theater, that sort of thing. Whoever issues the bounty is going to deposit the money with either ComStar or the MRBC, depending on the era, after ComStar/MRBC have reviewed the issue, so that everyone who considers going after the target knows that, firstly, their target is legitimate, and secondly, they´re really going to get the money.

The second kind is where someone - Sunnyboy Liao, some petty noble, or whoever - promises X amount of C-Bills for whoever brings him the head of a particular person or a member of a particular unit. To collect, you have to show up and present your catch, either in person or to a representative of whoever issues the bounty. Anyone who considers going after that target knows that, firstly, it´s anyone´s guess if the target actually did something wrong other than annoying someone with too much money, and secondly, it´s anyone´s guess if they´re actually getting paid, and if they´re going to survive turning in their catch instead of being turned into a very convenient dead hero for the local propaganda efforts.