Arrow IV direct fire

[Drewbacca]

Is it possible to fire an Arrow IV directly at a target mech?

[Lorcan Nagle]

You can't direct fire a homing round, but other than that, yes.

[Fletch]

Such a nice way to create a 17 hex bubble

[JadeHellbringer]

Is it possible to fire an Arrow IV directly at a target mech?

Mechs don't appreciate an area-effect round landing at their feet, but if you REALLY want to cause an enemy to panic, try throwing your missile at enemy battle armor. Guaranteed hilarity.

[serack]

You can't direct fire a homing round, but other than that, yes.

unless target is tagged , then you can :)

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Mechs don't appreciate an area-effect round landing at their feet, but if you REALLY want to cause an enemy to panic, try throwing your missile at enemy battle armor. Guaranteed hilarity.

I was running a TDK-7KMA Thunderhawk in a game when a guy on the other side moved 3 squads of Purifiers so that they were in a line 3 hexes long.

Hilarity ensued.

[JadeHellbringer]

I was running a TDK-7KMA Thunderhawk in a game when a guy on the other side moved 3 squads of Purifiers so that they were in a line 3 hexes long.

Hilarity ensued.

That thing is just evil. Most Arrow carriers, you bum-rush it and just knock it out before it keeps throwing missiles, since they tend to have far less firepower in-close than they do at a distance (Naga, Chapparal, etc.)

This? Good, you survived the artillery barrage. Now comes the twin Gauss!

TDK-7KMA: Because planting a giant metal hand holding up a middle finger in the middle of the battlefield is a bit too gauche.

[SteveRestless]

That thing is just evil. Most Arrow carriers, you bum-rush it and just knock it out before it keeps throwing missiles, since they tend to have far less firepower in-close than they do at a distance (Naga, Chapparal, etc.)

This? Good, you survived the artillery barrage. Now comes the twin Gauss!

TDK-7KMA: Because planting a giant metal hand holding up a middle finger in the middle of the battlefield is a bit too gauche.

This is why I like the Huey AAA, and I have a Timber Wolf config designed to shepherd Nagas.

[Sir Chaos]

"Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl" - Frederick the Great

[Weirdo]

I dunno about dignity, but it certainly ramps up the fun. And the comedy.

[Frabby]

I was under the impression that you can only direct-fire at hexes, but not at a 'Mech?

This does make a difference at least in regards to angle of attack. Also, my understanding is that when direct-firing at a hex you need LOS which would effectively preclue you from shooting direct-fire artillery at enemy 'Mechs behind partial cover.

[Maniac Actual]

Mechs don't appreciate an area-effect round landing at their feet, but if you REALLY want to cause an enemy to panic, try throwing your missile at enemy battle armor. Guaranteed hilarity.

Reason # 5,764 why Battle armor is usually wasted BV in a battle, IMO.  Last time I used BA in a scenario, one of my own errant Arrow 4 rounds took out two points of BA and opened a hole in my line that lost the battle.

As an aside, if you CAN directly target mechs as opposed to hexes, I think my room mate is right:  With the errata rules, arty IS under BV'd then.

[gunner]

the Homing round has to designated as it fires;  so no redirecting it.   A non homing round can NOT be used with a tag.

[JadeHellbringer]

the Homing round has to designated as it fires;  so no redirecting it.   A non homing round can NOT be used with a tag.

I still declare TAG even if I don't have a homing round available that turn. It's nice to keep people worrying about just what kind of special treats I have inbound this turn. ;)

[gunner]

YES  you can threaten them with it, however if it wasn't launched as it  it can NOT  home it

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I'm pretty sure Hellbie's point was that by hitting the enemy with a TAG every round, you kept them guessing about just how many Arrow IV shots you were sending their way and therefore keeping them nervous.

[Question]

Artillery rules dont make sense to me IMHO.

First of all the whole "wait 1 turn to land if firing at >17 hexes" thing makes it near impossible to hit anything unless the opponent is an idiot and just stands there for 2 rounds in a row.

The second problem is that indirect fire is incredibly reliant on pre-designated hexes since the battle is going to be half over by the time you use spotters to get a good hit chance on a hex.

The third problem is that firing at a hex can be much easier to hit than trying to hit the unit itself...leading to direct fire artillery creating a 17 hex no-go zone for any fast units. Feel free to jump 7 hexes into heavy woods, im still firing at a flat +4 modifier.

Then of course you have the balance problem where arrow IVs are superior to tube artillery in almost every way...and that there is no reason to use normal arrow IV rounds over cluster rounds since they both do the same damage, except that cluster uses the punch table.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Arrow IVs don't have Cluster ammo.

[Weirdo]

First of all the whole "wait 1 turn to land if firing at >17 hexes" thing makes it near impossible to hit anything unless the opponent is an idiot and just stands there for 2 rounds in a row.

If you know it will take your shot a turn or two to land, why on earth are you aiming where they are right now? To use artillery, you predict where they're going to be(a general area, not a hex) on the turn the shots will land. Then you aim for the center of that general area, and let rip, letting scatter drop shells on individual units within the lance or company you're targeting. (And if you're trying to target individual units, well that's another part of your tactics you need to fix. It won't work.)

The third problem is that firing at a hex can be much easier to hit than trying to hit the unit itself...leading to direct fire artillery creating a 17 hex no-go zone for any fast units. Feel free to jump 7 hexes into heavy woods, im still firing at a flat +4 modifier.

Yup, that's what artillery is there for. Using is to deter fast backstabbers is called using it properly.

[cavingjan]

Use similar considerations from mine placement for artillery plotting. Natural choke points help to funnel them. Stacking up a strong wall right in front of where you are dropping artillery typically has an enemy slow to engage you. It is all about reading what your opponent is going to do a couple turns down the road. You don't have a crystal ball but you should have a decent idea of what they intend to do.

[JadeHellbringer]

I'm pretty sure Hellbie's point was that by hitting the enemy with a TAG every round, you kept them guessing about just how many Arrow IV shots you were sending their way and therefore keeping them nervous.

Exactly. I don't have to tell you which kind of round is landing this turn- but if I TAG you every time, you'll always be worried that it's a 20-point 'oh crap' round coming in, at least. If I don't, you at least know that whatever dirty trick is air-mailing itself to the battlefield, it's not a homing round at least.

Remember, misdirection and subterfuge can be just as powerful as any weapon.

[Question]

Arrow IVs don't have Cluster ammo.

But...they do?

Weirdo : My point was that the whole guessing game is quite silly, especially if you dont happen to have a pre-designated hex where the enemy is. Sure you can aim ahead of them...but what happens if they dont go there next turn, after you have fired the rounds? Your rounds hit nothing and are completely wasted.

TAG + homing of course solves this problem. But im talking about non-homing rounds.

It's too effective as a fast unit deterrant IMHO. We are talking about a 17 hex denial zone here...not even clan large pulse is that bad. It just feels strange to me that artillery (which is meant to take out fortified positions and clusters of troops) is the best at killing solitary, fast moving units (when it should be the worst at doing that).

[SteveRestless]

Really, Battletech artillery is just fine. It's just that you need a large engagement and at least 8 tubes of it to be effective.

You need to be anticipating where your opponent will be in x turns, and targeting an area. not a hex, an area. Sheaf Fire changes artillery from a joke to a tool.

it's fine at assaulting fortified positions. Either they move or they take it on the chin, and buildings can't move. It's great for using against entire lances or companies at a time, so long as you anticipate. and with the travel time of artillery in the air, often you can with the right positioning and number of tubes, adequately hit more than one likely destination in a turn.

IIRC artillery cannot direct-fire at less than 17 hexes if it has line of sight on the target. at least, that's the way it's implemented in megamek and has been for a number of years without anyone filing a bug.  Thus there really isn't an instantaneous death zone for a light without proper positioning

[Weirdo]

Weirdo : My point was that the whole guessing game is quite silly

It might be, but until we breed all military commanders to be telepaths, it's the way it is, in games and in real life.

Sure you can aim ahead of them...but what happens if they dont go there next turn, after you have fired the rounds? Your rounds hit nothing and are completely wasted.

That's called a learning experience. Next time you run into that particular situation, you'll know that that particular player isn't as likely to move in that direction. Learning experiences plus learned tactical sense equals having a feel for where dropping shells will be most useful.

And for the record, it's been a VERY long time since I ever played a game with any preplotted hexes. They only make sense if the defender has had time to dial those hexes in. Therefore, in most pickup games I've ever played in, nobody will have them.

It's too effective as a fast unit deterrant IMHO. We are talking about a 17 hex denial zone here...not even clan large pulse is that bad. It just feels strange to me that artillery (which is meant to take out fortified positions and clusters of troops) is the best at killing solitary, fast moving units (when it should be the worst at doing that).

You still have to hit the hex. Even with direct-fire modifiers, it's hardly an auto-hit. Nor is a hit from even a large artillery piece an auto-kill on anything but the smallest light units. The spread-out nature of artillery means it's really easy for even light units to take hits and keep going.

IIRC artillery cannot direct-fire at less than 17 hexes if it has line of sight on the target.

Uh...firing on a target at less than 17 hexes with LOS is the definition of direct-fire artillery. If MM won't let you do that, that's a bug in MegaMek.

[SteveRestless]

Uh...firing on a target at less than 17 hexes with LOS is the definition of direct-fire artillery. If MM won't let you do that, that's a bug in MegaMek.

oh wait, I always forget that it's the way the phases split. this is my derp. it does let you, just not when I think it ought to.

[beachhead1985]

I dunno about dignity, but it certainly ramps up the fun. And the comedy.

Nothing like a smackdown from the hand of god, eh?

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Or the comedy of losing because your artillery kept drifting back into your own lines and crippled several of your most powerful mechs.

[Weirdo]

Yup. Nothing makes an afternoon hilarious like friendly fire. O0

(Not kidding, either!)

[MAD-4A]

You still have to hit the hex. Even with direct-fire modifiers, it's hardly an auto-hit. Nor is a hit from even a large artillery piece an auto-kill on anything but the smallest light units. The spread-out nature of artillery means it's really easy for even light units to take hits and keep going.

right - a direct hit is basically just a LRM-20 that hits with a 12 on the missile role (how many of those have you survived?)

[MAD-4A]

Yup. Nothing makes an afternoon hilarious like friendly fire.

Murphy says: "Friendly Fire Isn't!"