TRO: Jihad - a totally unnecessary catalog of possible contents

[Colt Ward]

Too bad no Arctic Fox . . . only merc Omni IIRC.

[Greatclub]

I don't think the Hauptmann is '58.

[Wrangler]

I don't think the Hauptmann is '58.

its 3060.

[Wrangler]

One thing i noticed is that TRO: 3085 Supplemental wasn't mentioned, since couple of the Mechs came from that book.

[RifleMech]

I don't like that other units aren't included. I know Mechs are the kings of the battlefield but other unit types are important too. The Clans couldn't have been stopped if it weren't for other unit types fighting with Mechs. Why exclude them?

I also hope that the Era TROs won't remain normal. I'd think we'd want players to learn about the eras and unit availability. I think Era TROs give the wrong impression. They say these are the units available for this era when really some will have gone extinct, and some haven't been introduced yet. Don't you think that would frustrate players? I'm sorry but you can't use a Star Slayer during the Clan Invasion. Why? Because it was extinct until it production resumed after the Invasion was halted. Pick something else.

I also don't see how there could be fewer books unless units are going to be cut from canon.

[Colt Ward]

I also hope that the Era TROs won't remain normal. I'd think we'd want players to learn about the eras and unit availability. I think Era TROs give the wrong impression. They say these are the units available for this era when really some will have gone extinct, and some haven't been introduced yet. Don't you think that would frustrate players? I'm sorry but you can't use a Star Slayer during the Clan Invasion. Why? Because it was extinct until it production resumed after the Invasion was halted. Pick something else.

Yeah, still hung up on that whole span for Succession Wars?  The Starslayer resumed production during the Clan Invasion and per pre-Invasion scenario book about the Big Mac, some models were recovered and in use.

The mechs not in these TROs are not getting cut from canon . . . just de-emphasized, they are still on the MUL and some are still on RATs or used in other official sources.

[Sartris]

One thing i noticed is that TRO: 3085 Supplemental wasn't mentioned, since couple of the Mechs came from that book.

3085 Supplemental

Code: [Select]

Blade
Cuirass
Fennec
Warhammer 10
Yao Lien

Arctic Wolf II
Diemos
Omen


[Greatclub]

The star league mechs listed were in the succession wars. 1SW anyway. I would have separated it out into a separate star league book with some age of war stuff, but I understand why they wanted standard tech in the SW book.

Teaching new players about strict canonical availability probably isn't a priority. Getting them hooked on playing, which letting them use the fun stuff will help with, certainly is.

Thus, I do expect it to be normal going forward. If it gets me more sparring partners I'll accept it as the cost of the game ascending. Once they're on a roll you can introduce them to the MUL.

[RifleMech]

Yeah, still hung up on that whole span for Succession Wars?  The Starslayer resumed production during the Clan Invasion and per pre-Invasion scenario book about the Big Mac, some models were recovered and in use.

Per TRO: Clan Invasion

Blue Shot resumed production of the Starslayer in 3056, upgrading to the STY-3C, which uses an endo steel frame to allow it to mount even more armor than the Crab.

That's four years after the Truce of Tukayyid halted the Clan Invasion and is confirmed on the MUL.

As for McCarron's Armored Cavalry. The Scenario Pack causes continuity problems. The fluff for the Starslayer is for an older version without advanced technology. It says

Lacking ferr-fibrous armor and endo steel, the Starslayer is rarely used. With recent advances in 'Mech technology, more Houses may pull their few Starslayers out of mothballs and recondition them.

The TRO entries also talk about an older less advanced variant. The first scenario using the Starslayer takes place in 3044. It lists the 3C being used.

Now I will admit that it is possible the Big Mac upgraded their Starslayers. They had the money and tech to do so. And it could be that Blue Shot Weapons made the variant official. However there's still an official 12 year discrepancy there. Even as a custom job, they still wouldn't be available for the Clan Invasion as they're exclusive to the Big Mac. Unless you want to go with the maybe of the Houses pulling them out of mothballs and upgrading them, which would still have date issues.

The mechs not in these TROs are not getting cut from canon . . . just de-emphasized, they are still on the MUL and some are still on RATs or used in other official sources.

I sure hope not but does their being listed on the MUL if stats or RS aren't available?

[Greatclub]

I sure hope not but does their being listed on the MUL if stats or RS aren't available?

'

They will almost certainly be available PDF, with a handful of exceptions (Big Mac starslayer possibly among them.) That'll have to be good enough.

Most players don't care if the mech their opponent uses is a year or five early so long as it doesn't have equipment in advance of the period. If it bugs you, I suggest you'll just have to have a talk with your sparring partner

[Scotty]

It would probably make everything easier if you start arranging games by era rather than trying to pick a year first.  To be quite frank, I don't care what year it is as long as we're having a game, let alone trying to beat 30+ years of legacy knowledge about introduction and extinction dates into some poor new player.

[RifleMech]

'

They will almost certainly be available PDF, with a handful of exceptions (Big Mac starslayer possibly among them.) That'll have to be good enough.

Most players don't care if the mech their opponent uses is a year or five early so long as it doesn't have equipment in advance of the period. If it bugs you, I suggest you'll just have to have a talk with your sparring partner

I hope they'll be available.

That's just it. Sometimes an argument could be made but not always. Otherwise why have dates at all?

It would probably make everything easier if you start arranging games by era rather than trying to pick a year first.  To be quite frank, I don't care what year it is as long as we're having a game, let alone trying to beat 30+ years of legacy knowledge about introduction and extinction dates into some poor new player.

Which is great for your games. Even some of my games. Others want to be a little more accurate in their games. With Dated TROs you knew the units in it were available. There isn't that certainty with Era TROs.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Even with dated TROs, the unit availability varies heavily.  Some mechs in TRO 3058 are available prior to the Clan Invasion- some date back all the way to the Star League, even.  If you really want to set what can be in a game based on the date, why not rely on the MUL instead of TRO entries?

[Greatclub]

notably, MUL has some 3055 units available before the initial invasion ends - bandersnatch, dart, war dog, grim reaper, jackal. Unless things have changed, the TRO doesn't tell you that.

[Crimson Dawn]

And good luck trying to remember which date is for certain designs.  Outside of 3025 and 3050 I have a really hard time remembering which date went with each group of mechs.  I can remember which mechs were together in a book (such as teh first Inner Sphere Omnis, the Merlin, and the bushwacker are all in the same book) but remembering what year for the book often times eludes me.  So if I want to find the entry on the Avatar I would have to remember which year out of a bunch of viable years it belongs to and in the case of the Merlin and chameleon it does not even make sense as they are both originally designed and manufactured way before the date on the TRO they are in would suggest.

Eras make a lot of sense to me and would probably be the better format assuming of course they make good use of the benefits of organizing it in this fashion.  For instance if they put the Merlin and Chameleon in the same book as the bushwacker again I would say they are missing the point.  Also to be clear I am not speaking of tech level as the lineholder mech is originally from the same book and while its original version uses all intro tech the design should be put in the same era book as the bushwacker because that is where it is from.

[Sartris]

dead horse issue. we have three era tros now

take it up with the devs at this point

[Bosefius]

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