Author Topic: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen  (Read 217736 times)

sadlerbw

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #90 on: 21 February 2018, 11:19:26 »
You know what? I am unconvinced. I've seen too many promises to trust someone just because they're VERY ENTHUSED and BRAND AWARE. Brent, you want to get the fans back on-board? Release some ****** product. Because until I have something in my hands, I don't believe you. Period.

Edit: Five years ago, Herb said the same thing. Didn't happen. Then, after they fired Herb, Randall said the same thing. Didn't happen. Now Brent is saying it, and you ****** believe him? Product on shelves, then I'll believe you.

You are having a rough week aren't you? S'ok, it happens. Hope things ease up on ya.

As for product on shelves, well they almost certainly didn't all quit their jobs and disappear to twirl their evil mustaches, so they must be doing SOMETHING with all that time. The box sets are one fairly huge thing, and while they may not be all that special to us here on the boards other than as a source of nice new minis, they are likely a big time sink. Getting those done and getting the core rulebooks available again appear to be priorities #1 and #2 for Brent and Ray. ilClan is, at best, #3, and I honestly can't argue with that plan.

I understand your frustration, I really do, but so far Brent is basically telegraphing, "I want ilClan part one out for GenCon", as the first time he has really talked possible releases for it. Maybe consider letting him have till then before calling shenanigans. That's what I've decided to do personally before I stick ilClan back into the land of never-ending product development...right next to Loren's next novel! As for splitting ilClan in two being a stealth way to slip the deadline, I'm holding off judgement on that one. The idea of giving more time to play along with the story for the Demo Team and with Con events, and to get some supporting fiction out appeals to me. If that happens, then I'm OK with it. If it doesn't, then I'll probably be more annoyed with the split.

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #91 on: 21 February 2018, 11:34:26 »
Its a follow-up of their debut album, License to Il.

I hear it placed second to the clan mongoose album "the dead can dance"
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #92 on: 21 February 2018, 11:37:21 »
Re: Product not coming out

My thought on that is we had the Combat Manuals.  Apparently they didn't sell well enough to keep the line going.  If more people bought those, we mighta had Davion and/or Steiner out by now.

We also had the new/third incarnation of TRO 3025.  May not be new for many of us, but if they're focusing on bringing the brand to new players it makes sense to get more of the foundational stuff out there and accessible for the new players we're all hoping that will eventually be buying the new box sets.

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #93 on: 21 February 2018, 11:56:58 »
Any news on  TRO Golden Century?

sadlerbw

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #94 on: 21 February 2018, 12:00:32 »
My thought on that is we had the Combat Manuals.  Apparently they didn't sell well enough to keep the line going.

I think Ray asked us to stop saying they didn’t sell well as it is oversimplified to the point of being wrong. Since I’m the one who originally did the oversimplifying, I feel compelled to point this out.

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #95 on: 21 February 2018, 12:19:35 »
Any news on  TRO Golden Century?

It’s probably hanging out with Record Sheets: Prototypes in witness protection

Have we ever gotten anything besides the blurb that it exists on the coming soon page?

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #96 on: 21 February 2018, 12:23:20 »
I understand your frustration, I really do, but so far Brent is basically telegraphing, "I want ilClan part one out for GenCon", as the first time he has really talked possible releases for it. Maybe consider letting him have till then before calling shenanigans. That's what I've decided to do personally before I stick ilClan back into the land of never-ending product development...right next to Loren's next novel! As for splitting ilClan in two being a stealth way to slip the deadline, I'm holding off judgement on that one. The idea of giving more time to play along with the story for the Demo Team and with Con events, and to get some supporting fiction out appeals to me. If that happens, then I'm OK with it. If it doesn't, then I'll probably be more annoyed with the split.

If this was the first delay the product had seen, absolutely. But to take it from the threshold of release after all the grief we've been through already, is completely unjustified in my opinion. I am unwilling to give the benefit of the doubt just because someone wanted to make a circus of this.

A finished book released last year is better than two books dragged out. If you can't get one out the door why should I have faith in two?
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Nerroth

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #97 on: 21 February 2018, 13:32:20 »
When I first saw the words "Shattered Fortress" and "Transformers" in the same conversation, I thought for a moment that someone was working on a Shattered Glass version of Fortress Maximus...

In principle, I'm not averse to there being two books, if that best serves the events being portrayed - the two Historical: Liberation of Terra volumes act as a worthy precedent in this regard. But of course, it all depends on how well each volume stands on its own merits, and how well they work combined.

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #98 on: 21 February 2018, 14:15:09 »
If this was the first delay the product had seen, absolutely. But to take it from the threshold of release after all the grief we've been through already, is completely unjustified in my opinion. I am unwilling to give the benefit of the doubt just because someone wanted to make a circus of this.

A finished book released last year is better than two books dragged out. If you can't get one out the door why should I have faith in two?

Just from what I've read around here, and what Brent has said: it sounds like he wants to make a big event of the release and not just drop it out there. That this is an epoch defining book and he wants it to make a splash, with tie in products and fiction. And if they can pull it off, that actually sounds pretty cool. Maybe that can be the start of BattleTech getting more awareness in the gamespace again. Can they pull it off? I don't know, but it certainly sounds ambitious enough that I am willing to wait and see. Have waited this long, so why not wait a bit longer...

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pheonixstorm

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #99 on: 21 February 2018, 14:30:20 »
What, no Captain Caveman dancing???

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #100 on: 21 February 2018, 14:33:26 »
Looking for an official answer? Check the Catalyst Interaction Forums.

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #101 on: 21 February 2018, 14:41:18 »
Unga Munga

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #102 on: 21 February 2018, 14:57:57 »
Now I need the rules for really primitive combat vehicles powered by clubs.

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #103 on: 21 February 2018, 15:10:36 »
I've voiced it before and I'll say it again: I have reservations about the line. I am still here because of this undying love for the game; not because I feel it is supported. The products that have been released have been solid, but here we are 8 months out and nothing new and not much of an idea of what is coming out.

New boxset? Great, but what about for the longtime player. Wasn't that an issue with the previous boxset that it was being bought by current players just wanting the 'mechs. New RPG adventure? I'll believe that when I see it because A Time of War has been out for an awfully long time. The new maps that we saw look good, but we haven't gotten much in the way of previews. We've lost line developers, and we've had several "relaunches" since the 25th anniversary. Look at the coming releases page:

Shadows of Faith, by Loren L. Coleman (Novel) -- MIA
Combat Manual: Steiner -- seemingly cancelled
Case White, by Victor Milan (Novel) -- oi... (to be fair, as someone who has dealt with a lot of cancer in his family, not much I can say though)
Combat Manual: Davion -- seemingly cancelled
Experimental Technical Readout: Succession Wars II (E-Publication) -- MIA
Record Sheets: Prototypes Unabridged (E-Publication) -- MIA
Kell Hounds Ascendant: Three Short Novels by Michael A. Stackpole (Novel) -- MIA
Technical Readout: Golden Century (E-Publication) -- MIA
Technical Readout: IrregularTech (E-Publication) -- MIA
ilClan -- reworked into two books
Milestones -- MIA
OpFor -- MIA
Spotlight On -- two releases, then nothing
Gladiator Gazette -- MIA

I want to believe, guys, I do. But I still don't have my ****** dice from BattleCorps and it has been over two years. I hope Brent knocks it out of the park as line developer. I have no doubt that he has the ability, but I think the line has greater systemic issues that are being overlooked.

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #104 on: 21 February 2018, 15:24:03 »
I think that is a pretty good summary . . .

With that said, I am still buying minis and playing TT.  In fact, since we got together 3 or 4 years ago to play Lawyers, Guns and Money (I totally did not look at my PDF collection to get it right) the group of players in my city has grown and someone became a Agent.
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #105 on: 21 February 2018, 15:28:46 »
Just because I was curious: here is a break down of products by year. It's just a quick breakdown, with the info grabbed from Sarna, so I won't make any claims to absolute accuracy (for instance Sarna didn't list the House dice sets from last year), not writing a term paper here, just some quick-and-dirty math. Also I counted reprints and revised editions as separate products (but limited editions as the same as the regular editions). And since I'm only interested in "Classic" BT, I didn't include anything from WizKids.

Interestingly, all three averaged around 8 physical products a year...
(On physical products FASA produced the most, but if you include PDFs, CGL has out paced both previous companies by a mile.)

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Takiro

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #106 on: 21 February 2018, 16:10:43 »
I guess I am the grumpy old man of BattleTech cause I really don't care if the plot moves 'forward' as there are many fine eras to play in. Me I look forward to historicals and specifics on the universe prior to the Jihad but hey that is me. When FASA went under or Endgame was published never thought I'd ever see another official written product again. I've been pleasantly surprised for the most part and I am sure things will pick up again soon folks.

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #107 on: 21 February 2018, 16:20:53 »

That we want MOAR is a good sign in itself.
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #108 on: 21 February 2018, 16:26:13 »
I guess I am the grumpy old man of BattleTech cause I really don't care if the plot moves 'forward' as there are many fine eras to play in. Me I look forward to historicals and specifics on the universe prior to the Jihad but hey that is me. When FASA went under or Endgame was published never thought I'd ever see another official written product again. I've been pleasantly surprised for the most part and I am sure things will pick up again soon folks.

I suppose that's pretty fair.

For Battletech to continue and thrive in the market, there need to be new products to drive sales.

For an old fogy like me to keep playing, I really just need to keep breathing. New toys are gravy.

...but I reeeeeally like new toys. ;)
« Last Edit: 21 February 2018, 16:28:02 by klarg1 »

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #109 on: 21 February 2018, 16:59:14 »
I'm just sitting here, laughing at all the "Fan/Nerd Rage", over what CGL somehow "Owes" us.   ;D


When they release BT stuff, I buy it.  Plain and simple.  I'll never use it, because I hardly ever game anymore, but I still support BT, and thus I still support CGL.  They don't "owe" me a DAMN thing.
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #110 on: 21 February 2018, 17:00:37 »
You are having a rough week aren't you? S'ok, it happens. Hope things ease up on ya.

Yeah, it's not been an easy week, and things keep getting worse. I did get some good news yesterday, so we'll see if that pans out.

Quote
As for product on shelves, well they almost certainly didn't all quit their jobs and disappear to twirl their evil mustaches, so they must be doing SOMETHING with all that time. The box sets are one fairly huge thing, and while they may not be all that special to us here on the boards other than as a source of nice new minis, they are likely a big time sink. Getting those done and getting the core rulebooks available again appear to be priorities #1 and #2 for Brent and Ray. ilClan is, at best, #3, and I honestly can't argue with that plan.

The box sets are a big deal, and I'm genuinely happy that they are coming out. But I am tired of hearing about CGL's plans. Give me something to spend money on!

Quote
I understand your frustration, I really do, but so far Brent is basically telegraphing, "I want ilClan part one out for GenCon", as the first time he has really talked possible releases for it. Maybe consider letting him have till then before calling shenanigans. That's what I've decided to do personally before I stick ilClan back into the land of never-ending product development...right next to Loren's next novel! As for splitting ilClan in two being a stealth way to slip the deadline, I'm holding off judgement on that one. The idea of giving more time to play along with the story for the Demo Team and with Con events, and to get some supporting fiction out appeals to me. If that happens, then I'm OK with it. If it doesn't, then I'll probably be more annoyed with the split.

The thing is, the book was finished before he started mucking with it. And, knowing the realities of publishing - especially printing in China - I find it very difficult to believe that he can have the book printed and out before GenCon. In PDF, sure, but PDFs don't draw customers or interest retailers at GenCon. Edit: Since CGL's books are printed in the US, this is not as much of a concern to me now. Thanks for the correction!

I'm also seeing some information that makes me question if the CGL guys really understand what's going on in the industry right now. I highly recommend that folks go take a look at Steve Jackson Games' Report to the Stakeholders. ( http://www.sjgames.com/general/stakeholders/report18.html ) SJ has been around a while and published a fair number of franchise games, and while there have been disasters here and there, he's kept his company afloat. One line stands out to me: "The flood of games continues to overwhelm distributors, retailers, and shelves, leading to an accelerated release schedule for many publishers as games get less time as a "new release" and get dumped online as fast as they leave the "hot and new" category." So what does that say about the decision to split IlClan into two books?
« Last Edit: 21 February 2018, 18:54:35 by ColBosch »
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #111 on: 21 February 2018, 17:32:07 »
The thing is, the book was finished before he started mucking with it. And, knowing the realities of publishing - especially printing in China - I find it very difficult to believe that he can have the book printed and out before GenCon.

Books are printed in the US, not China.

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #112 on: 21 February 2018, 17:33:37 »
Yeah, it's not been an easy week, and things keep getting worse. I did get some good news yesterday, so we'll see if that pans out.

The box sets are a big deal, and I'm genuinely happy that they are coming out. But I am tired of hearing about CGL's plans. Give me something to spend money on!

The thing is, the book was finished before he started mucking with it. And, knowing the realities of publishing - especially printing in China - I find it very difficult to believe that he can have the book printed and out before GenCon. In PDF, sure, but PDFs don't draw customers or interest retailers at GenCon.

I'm also seeing some information that makes me question if the CGL guys really understand what's going on in the industry right now. I highly recommend that folks go take a look at Steve Jackson Games' Report to the Stakeholders. ( http://www.sjgames.com/general/stakeholders/report18.html ) SJ has been around a while and published a fair number of franchise games, and while there have been disasters here and there, he's kept his company afloat. One line stands out to me: "The flood of games continues to overwhelm distributors, retailers, and shelves, leading to an accelerated release schedule for many publishers as games get less time as a "new release" and get dumped online as fast as they leave the "hot and new" category." So what does that say about the decision to split IlClan into two books?

First off, sorry to hear you've been having a sucky week so far. Hope things do get better for you!


And secondly...Steve Jackson Games has a completely different corner of the market? Sure, they are both games companies...but they have different products and types of customers for those games. I mean, WalMart and a bespoke tailor both sell clothes...but that's about all they have in common. SJG sells casual card/board/dice games and CGL produces book supplements to wargames/RPGs. (Yes, they are trying to break back into the board game area with the Duke, Vikings and Dragonfire, but even those don't quite compare to what SJG put outs.) Quite frankly, comparing SJG and CGL is comparing apples and oranges. (Would you compare Wizards of the Coast's D&D to SJG?)

I don't know if what CGL is trying to do with ilClan is a good thing or not. We will just have to wait and see. I'd rather see a great product than a mediocre one (not to say that the previous work on ilClan was mediocre). Does CGL put out enough product to compare to SJG? No, but I'd be willing to bet the work that goes into writing new stuff for BT & SR (thinking of fact checking previous canon and such) surpasses what goes into a SJG game.

I have to agree with GRUD: CGL doesn't owe us anything at all. They only people they owe anything to is Topps. None of us own BattleTech. They do. They just let us play it and make money doing so.

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #113 on: 21 February 2018, 17:35:27 »
I suppose that's pretty fair.

For Battletech to continue and thrive in the market, there need to be new products to drive sales.

For an old fogy like me to keep playing, I really just need to keep breathing. New toys are gravy.

...but I reeeeeally like new toys. ;)

New toys are the gravy on the poutine of life. :)

Personally, I'm always interested when the old FASA products have their stories moved forward. Be it Dark Age BT or things like the Boston Lockdown and the big Corporate shakeup. (Villiers out of the big 10?! Never thought I'd see that) I'm super excited to think that I might see the clans finally take Terra, and be united under one banner. It would be awesome to see the clans unified and in control of Terra, with the House Lords and Periphery uniting to drive them out. REVIVAL 2.0 but in reverse!

Of course new toys will inevitably need new minis, and I'll just have to make the sacrifice of buying them. Glorious adulthood!
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #114 on: 21 February 2018, 18:03:57 »
The sniping back and forth ends now. We've allowed people a fairly free hand in these threads but going after other posters will bring us back in. This is the only warning.
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #115 on: 21 February 2018, 18:24:20 »
Books are printed in the US, not China.

Thank you for the info, that does speed things up a lot.
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #116 on: 21 February 2018, 18:56:42 »
New toys are the gravy on the poutine of life. :)

Have the actual boxes for the new boxsets been printed yet?
Because I would like to suggest a new quote for the back.

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #117 on: 21 February 2018, 19:01:53 »
 CGL does owe me.  As a consumer of their product, I am investing in their company. In order to keep money in their coffers they need to produce something I want to buy.  They aren’t doing that.  And it isn’t just me. Alpha strike manuals weren’t successful. Plastic box sets didn’t work out. Not enough interest in the hex packs to keep them going to name a few of the “ failures” in the product line.  Please understand that I’m not saying that these products were subpar in any way shape or form but they aren’t what the consumer wants.  And the one book (the Ilclan) that could have been a win for CGL is now 5 years over due.  When originally announced I would have grabbed the book up without a second thought. Now I don’t have to have it. I will wait until I read reviews and decide if it is worth my money to invest in.



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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #118 on: 21 February 2018, 19:59:58 »
Alpha strike manuals weren’t successful.

This is, and always has been false.
My guess as to why we haven't seen any after CM: Kurita, is that they likely require more up-front money to produce than some of the other books CGL is/ had produced - just from the sheer amount of art in them. And that money has probably been tied up in more necessary art-and-cost-heavy projects: Intro Box, GoAC box, Map Set...
I'd also wager a guess that the current pause to certain "classic" designs probably has something to do with it as well. (Seriously, no CM: Davion without the Valkyrie in the "mini TRO" section?)
« Last Edit: 21 February 2018, 20:01:32 by Azakael »

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #119 on: 21 February 2018, 20:06:26 »
CGL does owe me.  As a consumer of their product, I am investing in their company.
If they had stock that was publicly traded, you could invest in their company. The same could be said for crowd-funded products, which CGL does not do. Purchasing a product funded solely by the company is not investing in them, it is purchasing an item that you want... a sale. I don't claim to invest in toilet-paper manufacturers because I purchase toilet paper. I'm not invested in Samsung or US Cellular by purchasing a phone and service from them.  You are invested in your hobby, not the company that makes the products.

I'm not going to say I do or do not have faith in CGL. I have seen good things from Brent and Ray in the past and I am more than willing to give them the benefit of the doubt by waiting patiently now.

 

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