Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!

[kato]

Always thought it funny to call the F-8E a Gunfighter when ... it carries missiles in that picture. R.550 Magic 2, to be exact. Up till around 1990 they also carried Matra 530s, the French equivalent of the (BVR) AIM-7E.

And yes, i know the French call it le dernier chasseur-canon too.

[kato]

Lineup for NATO exercise Brilliant Mariner in Toulon, France, from bottom to top:

- (row 1) L9013 Mistral (FR) - Mistral class LHD
- (row 2 towards sea) F451 Limnos (GR) - Elli class frigate [ASW]
- (row 2 towards quay) F83 Numancia (ES) - Santa Maria class frigate [ASW]
- (row 3) L61 Juan Carlos (ES) - Juan Carlos class LHD
- (row 4 towards sea) F334 Francisco de Almedia (PT) - Karel Doorman class frigate [GP]
- (row 4 towards quay) F710 La Fayette (FR) - La Fayette class frigate [GP]
- (row 5 towards sea) F244 Barbaros (TR) - MEKO 200 class frigate [GP]
- (row 5 towards quay) F714 Guepratte (FR) - La Fayette class frigate [GP]
- (row 6 towards sea) M5558 Crotone (IT) - Lerici class minehunter
- (row 6 center) M261 Edremit (TR) - Tripartite class minehunter
- (row 6 towards quay) H88 Enterprise (UK) - hydrographic survey vessel
- (row 7) F312 Otto Sverdrup (NO) - Nansen class frigate [ASW]
- (row 8) D621 Chevalier de Paul (FR) - Horizon class destroyer [AAW]
- (row 9) F103 Blas de Lezo (ES) - Alvaro de Bazan class frigate [AAW]
- (row 10) D34 Diamond (UK) - Daring class destroyer [AAW]
- (row 11) F805 Eversten (NL) - De Zeven Provincien class frigate [AAW]
- (row 12) F363 Niels Juel (DK) - Iver Huitfeldt calss frigate [AAW]
- (row 13) F339 Charlottetown (CA) - Halifax class frigate [ASW]

Some rows aren't all that visible behind the others. I like the "bracketing" in that line-up though. The singular ship up top is an unknown La Fayette frigate.

Part of the same lineup from the ground, basically rows 8-12 visible here:



A couple more ships are also taking part, but are not lined up on the same section of the port. These are basically:
- L17 Esbern Snare (DK), Absalon class command ship
- D643 Jean de Vienne (FR), Georges Leygues class destroyer [ASW]
- D653 Languedoc (FR), FREMM class destroyer [ASW]
- M645 Orion (FR), Tripartite class minehunter
- M648 Lyre (FR), Tripartite class minehunter
- A608 Var (FR), Durance class fleet oiler
- A1443 Rhön (GE), Rhön class fleet oiler

There's also a submarine in the exercise but no one says which. So i'd give some money on it being a French nuclear attack submarine.

Juan Carlos is deployed to Brilliant Mariner with 6 AV-8B Harrier II (and 3 Sea Kings). I'm not sure whether Mistral actually officially carries helos for the exercise - she's definitely carrying a EDA-R landing craft catamaran and two LCUs though. Pictures of the exercise show at least one Puma, one NH90 and a single Tiger combat helicopter operating from her.

Land-based fixed-wing aviation involved in the exercise is the 12th Fighter Squadron of the French Navy (12 Rafale M - remember, CdG is in the yard) and 115th Air Force Base with two Fighter Squadrons of the French Air Force (up to 24 Mirage 2000B/C); also, one E-2 Hawkeye and Atlantique each of the French Navy, one P-3C of the German Navy and one E-3F of the French Air Force.

The whole thing at sea: kinda big photo 1 and 2.

Also have some brilliant VR video on Youtube from the exercise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGbJ2gGmJa8
(VR as in: click your mouse in it and move the camera...)

[DoctorMonkey]

Lovely photos - thank you Kato

[I am Belch II]

Nice photos!

[kato]

For scale : The flexdeck of destroyer-sized and -shaped multi-purpose command ship L17 Esbern Snare, shown off to allied sailors at Brilliant Mariner. It somehow looks a lot wider from this angle - even if it's really more of a tunnel, being only 11m wide - but 85m long. That hand of the one guy is kinda like "and if you look allll the way back there you'll see the exit ramp".



The attachments on the ground for tieing down loads are interestingly different than the ones previously shown on her sister Absalon. Rated to transport about one fifth of Denmark's entire Leopard 2 tank forces in one go...

The flex deck can alternatively be used to stow e.g. a containerized command center with up to 50 consoles that tie into the ship's combat management system.

[Wrangler]

Great pictures.
Why are they selling the Esbern Snare? They can't afford it now?

[Weirdo]

Gotta love OmniShips... :)

To my knowledge, it's not for sale.

[kato]

Only for scale ;)

Here's the vehicle deck of a Mistral, filled, for comparison:



Aircraft hangar on Juan Carlos, not really much roomier:

[worktroll]

HMS Diamond - the frigate with a cherry on top!

[glitterboy2098]

is "flex deck" a proper term for such set ups, or more of an informal one?

[Wrangler]

Did the Dutch have better time with Flex standard system than us was?  Does their version of it work better than the US's version?

[Weirdo]

From what I understand, their version actually works, and has for years.

[glitterboy2098]

probably because they were less ambitious, and divided up the module functions a bit better.

[Wrangler]

I knew about the StanFlex system, but i hadn't known other abilities of it or if had been fully successful.  It seems so, but article on the modules showed that it wasn't substitute for a for dedicated to the role.  Still it is very cost effective and the modules can be kept in storage for a while without too much preventative maintenance. 

I guess US Navy went too far with theirs, i wondered why the US had issues with their version.

The 6,000 ton Iver Huitfeldt-class frigate, a class equipped with StanFlex.

She balanced design;  She comes with slots for six modules, 4 slots up front so she can accommodated added missile launchers such as Harpoon. She also 32-cell mK 41 VLS launcher, and Mk56 VLS launcher for Evolved Sea Sparrow, and pair of 3inch Guns backed up with 35mm CIWS.

Pretty neat design.

[worktroll]

I'm sorry, I'm sure that's a fine ship and works well for its crew and navy, but it looks ... unexciting.

Heck, this is at least more colourful:



The Vernon C Bain Correctional Centre. Yup, prison hulk. Bringing it back George III-style! O0

[Luciora]

Some pictures taken of the CV-12 USS Hornet. The twin AA mount was under construction last time I was there, couldn't get a closeup this time because of the poor air quality from the Napa fires, closing the deck and island for tours.

[kato]

is "flex deck" a proper term for such set ups, or more of an informal one?

The Danish Navy calls it that officially ("store flexdæk" : "large flex deck").

She balanced design;  She comes with slots for six modules, 4 slots up front so she can accommodated added missile launchers such as Harpoon. She also 32-cell mK 41 VLS launcher, and Mk56 VLS launcher for Evolved Sea Sparrow, and pair of 3inch Guns backed up with 35mm CIWS.

Both the Absalon and the Iver Huitfeldt classes have a "weapon deck" (that's a bit more an informal term), i.e. a "tub" midships in which the main weapon systems are mounted. This tub holds four StanFlex missile modules, either 12-cell Mk56/ESSM modules or 8-cell Harpoon launcher modules. The Mk41 on Iver Huitfeldts is within that - somewhat larger - tub too, although not removable, with Absalons instead fitting a fifth StanFlex module in the tub.

They usually don't fill out all the module slots in the tub btw. When filled, the default layout is two Harpoon launch modules + two ESSM launch modules, with Absalon carrying a third ESSM module in lieu of Iver Huitfeldts VLS (default maximum fit 16 Harpoon + 36 ESSM in Absalon / 16 Harpoon + 24 ESSM + 32 SM-2 in Iver Huitfeldt).

The 76mm guns can be replaced with 35mm CIWS, these are modular too. However the Danish Navy only owns about 4 CIWS StanFlex modules for all its ship, so they only put them on those ships on deployment while the other run around with 76mm in those slots.

[Nightlord01]

Well, me thinks that Kanimbla and Manoora were bought as the first tentative steps for the RAN getting a proper Fleet Air Arm again . . .

As a blue-suiter who served with a number of ex-Fleet Air Arm types, I look forward to the day O0

Sadly, no... Very close though. Their reason was only to enable the eventual purchase of Canberra and Adelaide.

I'm sorry, I'm sure that's a fine ship and works well for its crew and navy, but it looks ... unexciting.

Heck, this is at least more colourful:

The Vernon C Bain Correctional Centre. Yup, prison hulk. Bringing it back George III-style! O0

Dull is the new black there Worktroll. It's just what it is, chunky went out years ago.

[Weirdo]

The Vernon C Bain Correctional Centre. Yup, prison hulk. Bringing it back George III-style! O0

The difference being that unlike modern times, George III never had to worry about subsurface threats aside from Turtle and the odd hungry mermaid. Not sure I'd trust a prison hulk as secure, unless the water around it were clear and filled with enough active sonar to make a small dolphin explode, or Screaming Eels.

The Danish Navy calls it that officially ("store flexdæk" : "large flex deck").
Both the Absalon and the Iver Huitfeldt classes have a "weapon deck" (that's a bit more an informal term), i.e. a "tub" midships in which the main weapon systems are mounted. This tub holds four StanFlex missile modules, either 12-cell Mk56/ESSM modules or 8-cell Harpoon launcher modules. The Mk41 on Iver Huitfeldts is within that - somewhat larger - tub too, although not removable, with Absalons instead fitting a fifth StanFlex module in the tub.

They usually don't fill out all the module slots in the tub btw. When filled, the default layout is two Harpoon launch modules + two ESSM launch modules, with Absalon carrying a third ESSM module in lieu of Iver Huitfeldts VLS (default maximum fit 16 Harpoon + 36 ESSM in Absalon / 16 Harpoon + 24 ESSM + 32 SM-2 in Iver Huitfeldt).

The 76mm guns can be replaced with 35mm CIWS, these are modular too. However the Danish Navy only owns about 4 CIWS StanFlex modules for all its ship, so they only put them on those ships on deployment while the other run around with 76mm in those slots.

Geez, that's some hardcore firepower. Do they build/train to fight anyone in particular, or is it mostly about NATO or EU deployments?

[DoctorMonkey]

The difference being that unlike modern times, George III never had to worry about subsurface threats aside from Turtle and the odd hungry mermaid. Not sure I'd trust a prison hulk as secure, unless the water around it were clear and filled with enough active sonar to make a small dolphin explode, or Screaming Eels.

We had one in Portland Harbour (in Dorset) for a while. No prison can ever be 100% secure but I don't think this is all that much worse than a prison built on land. They are permanently moored rather than sailing a safe distance out to sea and it is more the ability to construct it in one place and then deliver it to another. It was moored at an old Royal Navy base where they used to test torpedoes and things so reasonably secure. Also Portland itself is connected to the mainland by only a narrow strip.


A lot of British prisons are or were castles or other fortifications - the one on Portland (The Verne) is and so was the other local prison here (Dorchester) as was York Castle.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HM_Prison_Weare

[kato]

Geez, that's some hardcore firepower. Do they build/train to fight anyone in particular, or is it mostly about NATO or EU deployments?

They simply had a ton of those (in particular Harpoon) Stanflex modules left over from decommissioned missile boats - which were sold to other countries (Baltic Shield and Portugal) without these modules. So they basically designed their two new frigate-sized classes in such a way that they could fit all of those leftover modules.

In wartime they'd likely not fit them all to full capacity either, since some of these modules would instead be earmarked for upgrading their OPVs - older Thetis class and newer Knud Rasmussen class - into warfighters by adding a few missile modules (these OPVs usually have e.g. crane modules in these slots).

The standard that the two Absalons seem to run around with is still three ESSM (ea 12) and two Harpoon (ea 8) modules, and for the three Iver Huitfeldts two ESSM (ea 12) and two Harpoon (ea 8) modules (+ fixed VLS for SM-2). In practice they seem to not fit all the missiles in their launchers rather than not mounting the module itself. Often e.g. one of the two Harpoon modules is not loaded with missiles, just the empty launch gear.

[DoctorMonkey]

I really like the Absaloms - they seem the perfect small solution to the problem of deploying a relatively cheap asset for operations-other-than outright war against an advanced opponent; in the event of a big shooty-war, they would probably have a good role as amphibious or HQ ships

[Weirdo]

Ditto. Forget all those TROs where the OmniMech/Tank configs are all some flavor or another of shooty - this is Omni done right! :)

[DoctorMonkey]

Ditto. Forget all those TROs where the OmniMech/Tank configs are all some flavor or another of shooty - this is Omni done right! :)

Mmmm OmniWarShips  [drool]

[JadeHellbringer]

I know Italy was trying that kind of thing out in the late '80s - OTO/Melara was making weaponry that used the same sized barbette so that you could plug in and out easily, but I don't think it was nearly as versatile as what all this is. Impressive indeed!

[Sabelkatten]

According to the Wiki page the Iver Huitfeldt-class can mount gun modules in all slots. I don't know if it's correct, and I doubt it would be smart, but the idea of a half-dozen 3" rapid-fire guns has a certain appeal! :D

[Weirdo]

Good ghu...they need to do that at least once...and take pictures.

[JadeHellbringer]

That... would be a pretty significant way to get rid of pirates.

Actually, that's probably the strongest gun broadside an active ship has, now that I think of it.

[kato]

I know Italy was trying that kind of thing out in the late '80s - OTO/Melara was making weaponry that used the same sized barbette so that you could plug in and out easily, but I don't think it was nearly as versatile as what all this is. Impressive indeed!

The plug-in thing is relevant even if you always use the same kind of turret/weapon. On any MEKO ship for example if you need to replace the turret (or its loader underneath) due to damage/malfunction/etc you just pull it out using some crane on the pierside and plug in a new unit. Main difference to Stanflex is that you still need to basically install a deck cover around it or similar - that's also why Stanflex installations look a bit "unclean".

According to the Wiki page the Iver Huitfeldt-class can mount gun modules in all slots.

Technically all modules are compatible, i.e. all of them fit in the unified slot model. With the gun modules it doesn't make sense since the barrels would only clear the side of the tub if elevated to where they wouldn't really be useful.





Note sides of tub that are about 2.5m tall. Also note covers on unused module positions. And the fact that the ESSM launchers are only half filled  ;)

There are some other Stanflex modules that are not in use on the Absalons and Iver Huitfeldts for the same reason. Basically that's the VDS (deploying sonar doesn't make sense from the tub) and ASW (twin torpedo tube) modules as well as oceanography, survey and anti-pollution modules for the same reasons. I'm actually not sure there's any ships aside from the Flyvefisken that can take the VDS module - possibly the MSD/MRD drone ships. The Thetis class OPVs have crane modules installed either side of the hangar at flight deck level which can take e.g. the ASW modules (they have a VDS installed on the ship itself).

[Wrangler]

Looks like the US NAVY has changed it's mind again on the unmanned MQ-25 Stingray aerial tanker.  They completely revamped it!



It will help extend the aircraft carrier's reach but it's no longer a stealthy and hard to find.  I think it makes it into a target with rather explosive climax.  :o