Author Topic: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!  (Read 251823 times)

sadlerbw

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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #630 on: 26 October 2017, 18:12:48 »
That was, oddly, one of the early findings of the LCS program. The first couple didn’t have bridge wings to help with their sleek, low-observable profile. Turns out, it made normal operations a huge pain, so the Navy actually started adding the, on starting around LCS-5 or 6. They had to add the, to both classes, as neither one had them. I can’t find a really good picture of the difference, but you can sort of see it in this picture of the independence class:


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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #632 on: 26 October 2017, 19:20:15 »
How about this then?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebrP1IfiEto
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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #633 on: 26 October 2017, 19:52:20 »
That was, oddly, one of the early findings of the LCS program. The first couple didn’t have bridge wings to help with their sleek, low-observable profile. Turns out, it made normal operations a huge pain, so the Navy actually started adding the, on starting around LCS-5 or 6. They had to add the, to both classes, as neither one had them. I can’t find a really good picture of the difference, but you can sort of see it in this picture of the independence class:
I've looked at images up to LCS-14, USS Manchester.  None of the bridges of those ships have bridge wings as far as the Independence Class goes.

However, the Freedom Class apparently started getting them.
USS Billings LCS-15, which was launched in July 2017.

Her sister ship, USS Omaha LCS-13 has them as well. Though they do look odd to me in the picture.

« Last Edit: 26 October 2017, 19:54:23 by Wrangler »
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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #634 on: 26 October 2017, 19:55:17 »
Cruise ships have to get into tight spaces with little or no help from a tug. On my cruise the ship backed it self out and turned with no assistance and we were barely moving. This was on the 225k tonnage Oasis of the Seas. Some of the parts where they dock, are tight fits.
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Nightlord01

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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #635 on: 27 October 2017, 00:49:25 »
Pretty much all WW2 ships running on the North Atlantic had flying bridges. These were more of a lookout position; steering, signalling etc was done one level below.

Usually you did also have part of the flying bridge enclosed, e.g. on US Fletchers in the rangefinder house up there; on British Flower class corvettes you had a lookout housing and for the flying bridge itself depending on weather e.g. a canvas cover above (common in South Sea usage to protect against the sun). You can find similar flying bridge layouts with small deck houses and a larger open area on pretty much every wartime ship, even Liberty cargo ships.

Most ships built like that in wartime later received redesigned bridges in the early 50s. USN Fletchers for example received a aluminium cover over the entire flying bridge.

The Daring Class did get refit with a full bridge and gunnery direction platform, but flying bridges made good value up top. There are very few experiences better than being on the upper decks while you are cruising through the tropics, especially on a moonless night, where the stars are so close you feel like you can touch them. I'm getting land sick again. :-P

That was, oddly, one of the early findings of the LCS program. The first couple didn’t have bridge wings to help with their sleek, low-observable profile. Turns out, it made normal operations a huge pain, so the Navy actually started adding the, on starting around LCS-5 or 6. They had to add the, to both classes, as neither one had them. I can’t find a really good picture of the difference, but you can sort of see it in this picture of the independence class:



Strikes me you could just put a 10MC mic on the waist and use that as the berthing conning station...

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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #636 on: 27 October 2017, 02:49:09 »

On January 31 1918, during nighttime fleet training, K4 turned to avoid hitting K3 and in turn was hit by K6 and K7 and was lots with all hands.

The infamous Battle of May Island

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_May_Island

The casualty numbers for the "Battle of May Island" were 104. This includes men from K4 with 55 dead, K17 with 47 dead, and 2 dead from K14
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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #637 on: 27 October 2017, 03:02:10 »


What you see here is the one of the last photos ever taken of one of history's bravest warship crews. HMS Glowworm. During the German invasion of Norway in spring of 1940, Glowworm had been in the company of the battlecruiser Renown, but detached to rescue a missing seaman. Attempting to find Renown again in a gale, she found a large warship... just not the one she wanted to find. Instead, the 1800-ton Glowworm had found the 16,000 ton cruiser Admiral Hipper. The weather was far too rough for a torpedo attack, and one could understand if the Glowworm's captain simply made a run for it and tried to escape the hulking cruiser.

He didn't. He attacked instead.

Despite the rough seas a torpedo attack was attempted (it failed). The 4.7-inch guns didn't have the power to cause any real damage to the Hipper, and even the attempted smokescreen (seen above) failed to do much- the wind kept whipping it away too fast to really obscure the destroyer anyway. (Unbeknownst to the British, Hipper had just received a new radar system, so the smoke would have merely been an annoyance anyway) Only one weapon remained... ramming. Speed to flank, and slam into the Hipper, and hope that the Glowworm's sacrifice takes the cruiser with her- or at least hurts her bad enough to send her home for a long time.



Glowworm didn't catch her target the way she wanted, only striking a glancing blow, and sank very soon after as a result of repeated hits from 208 and 88 mm shell hits. A sad few survivors were rescued, and Hipper was forced to withdraw for repairs. One of history's great mismatches in naval warfare ended up being a strategic win for a hapless but incredibly brave British destroyer crew.



In a similar vein I give you HMS Acasta and Ardent:

On the way through the Norwegian Sea the funnel smoke from Glorious and her two escorting destroyers, Acasta and Ardent, was spotted by the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau. Scharnhorst opened fire on Ardent at a range of 16,000 yards (15,000 m), causing the destroyer to withdraw, firing torpedoes and making a smoke screen. Ardent scored one hit with her 4.7-inch guns on Scharnhorst but was hit several times by the German ships' secondary armament and sank.  Scharnhorst switched her fire to Glorious and scored her first hit on her third salvo, at a range of 26,000 yards. A second shell hit the homing beacon above the bridge and killed or wounded the captain and most of the personnel stationed there. Ardent's smokescreen became effective enough to impair the visibility of the Germans so they ceased fire on Glorious. Glorious was hit again in the centre engine room and this caused her to lose speed and commence a slow circle to port. She also developed a list to starboard. The German ships closed to within 16,000 yards and continued to fire sinking Glorious.  As the German ships approached Glorious, Acasta, which had been trying to maintain the smokescreen, broke through her own smoke and fired two volleys of torpedoes at Scharnhorst. One of these hit abreast her rear turret and badly damaged her. Acasta also managed one hit from her 4.7-inch guns on Scharnhorst, but was riddled by German gunfire and sank.

Survivors estimated that about 900 men abandoned Glorious. The Germans did not try to pick up survivors. The Royal Navy knew nothing of the sinking until it was announced on German radio. The Norwegian ship Borgund, on passage to the Faroe Islands, arrived late on 10 June and picked up survivors, eventually delivering 37 alive to Thorshavn of whom two later died. Another Norwegian ship, Svalbard II, also making for the Faeroes, picked up five survivors but was sighted by a German aircraft and forced to return to Norway, where the four still alive became prisoners of war for the next five years. It is also believed that one more survivor from Glorious was rescued by a German seaplane. Therefore, the total of survivors was 40, including one each from Acasta and Ardent. The total killed or missing was 1,207 from Glorious, 160 from Acasta and 152 from Ardent, a total of 1,519.

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sadlerbw

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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #638 on: 27 October 2017, 12:35:07 »
I've looked at images up to LCS-14, USS Manchester.  None of the bridges of those ships have bridge wings as far as the Independence Class goes.

Well, they built at least one set as a retrofit. Here They are on Independence herself (found a better pic than my first one.)



Either they decided they weren't any better, or they don't like how v1.0 turned out on Independence and are doing a re-design, because the navy had signed a contract modification to add them to -6 and -8, but apparently that didn't happen.

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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #639 on: 27 October 2017, 18:28:47 »
After 5 months lost at sea, 2 women and their dogs were rescued in the Pacific by the crew of the USS Ashland LSD-48. Huzzah to them and the fishing boat that rescued them!

Thank god they stashed a year worth of food! Survived storms and swarms of sharks!
« Last Edit: 27 October 2017, 20:32:50 by Wrangler »
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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #640 on: 27 October 2017, 19:41:07 »
After 5 months lost at sea, 2 women and their dogs were rescued in the Pacific by the crew of the USS Ashland LSD-48. Huzzah to them and the fishing boat that rescued them!

Thank god they stashed a year worth of food! Survive storms and swarms of sharks!
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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #641 on: 27 October 2017, 20:34:17 »
Back in May/June of 2003, I was the Commanding Officer of Troops on ASH.  Good times.  She was also my ride home from my first deployment.
I never got the opportunity to be on a GatorFreighter.  I was told those ships were tight quarters as not alot elbow room onboard.  Is that true?
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Sharpnel

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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #642 on: 27 October 2017, 20:43:59 »
I think that's true of an Navy vessel. It's all about maximum use of interior space.
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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #643 on: 28 October 2017, 00:28:48 »
After 5 months lost at sea, 2 women and their dogs were rescued in the Pacific by the crew of the USS Ashland LSD-48. Huzzah to them and the fishing boat that rescued them!

Thank god they stashed a year worth of food! Survived storms and swarms of sharks!
They stashed a bit less than 6 months' worth of food it seems. This is Hollywood material, I'd pay admission price for that any day of the week!

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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #644 on: 28 October 2017, 00:54:27 »
That article plays up the danger higher than some of the other news reports I've seen.  Among other things, other articles stated that they had close to a year's worth of food onboard.

Also:

Quote
One night, a group of tiger sharks began attacking the vessel, and the next morning, a shark returned and rammed the boat again, Appel said, adding, ‘‘We were just incredibly lucky that our hull was strong enough to withstand the onslaught.’’

No, this is ridiculous.  Tiger sharks do not represent a threat to a 50 foot sailboat unless it's already starting to sink.  They'll bump, sure, but that's what they do when the find something and they don't know what it is.  They weren't in a life raft, the sharks weren't a danger even if it might have seemed scary at the time.
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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #645 on: 28 October 2017, 01:14:26 »
They had consumed 90% of the food by the time they were rescued.  this was confused with the comments that they brought food which could last for 1 year referring to it's perishability

It's a cute story anyway. Kid friendly fodder, methinks.

Nightlord01

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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #646 on: 28 October 2017, 05:38:43 »
That article plays up the danger higher than some of the other news reports I've seen.  Among other things, other articles stated that they had close to a year's worth of food onboard.

Also:

No, this is ridiculous.  Tiger sharks do not represent a threat to a 50 foot sailboat unless it's already starting to sink.  They'll bump, sure, but that's what they do when the find something and they don't know what it is.  They weren't in a life raft, the sharks weren't a danger even if it might have seemed scary at the time.

Indeed, tigersharks aren't going to pose any threat what so ever to a GRP hull, the boat was in good condition, albeit with several months worth of growth on the sides. The thing I curious about is their distress calls, they should have had a EPIRB onboard which could have alerted emergency services to their location.

To be honest, I think this is a couple of unqualified sailors taking a boat out which they couldn't adequately crew. Now it's being played up as a miraculous survival story instead of a cautionary tale against stupidity.

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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #647 on: 28 October 2017, 06:22:14 »
Indeed, tigersharks aren't going to pose any threat what so ever to a GRP hull, the boat was in good condition, albeit with several months worth of growth on the sides. The thing I curious about is their distress calls, they should have had a EPIRB onboard which could have alerted emergency services to their location.

To be honest, I think this is a couple of unqualified sailors taking a boat out which they couldn't adequately crew. Now it's being played up as a miraculous survival story instead of a cautionary tale against stupidity.

Sounds like they lost their long range radio antenna in the second major storm they hit and, with their mast damage and loss of engine, couldn't sail at more than 4 knots, but got caught in a 10-knot current at one point.  They ended up sailing north to try to get out of it, but conditions continued to work agajnst them.  Not sure if they had an EPIRB or if it was damaged, or simply an older one not on a commonly -monitored frequency (evidently, this isn't an uncommon issue per /r/amateurradio), but the short-range VHF set they had wasn't thrir only method of communications they set off with.
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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #648 on: 28 October 2017, 07:26:18 »
I never got the opportunity to be on a GatorFreighter.  I was told those ships were tight quarters as not alot elbow room onboard.  Is that true?
For the older ships that is certainly true.  The newer LPDs are downright spacious.  My experience is limited to one LPH, LSD 41-52, LHD 1-7, LHA 1-5, LPD 11-14 but nothing beyond academic study for the latest LPDs, LHAs, and LHD-8. Bunches of changes amongst those later platforms.

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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #649 on: 28 October 2017, 07:43:25 »
My limited experience of amphibs (i.e., LPD-17 for an exercise) tracked with my experience of other ships: plenty of room for equipment, not so much for people.

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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #650 on: 28 October 2017, 07:50:46 »
From what I've heard, the Mistrals ended up with so much spare volume that when USN personnel board one, they consider them downright palatial. Don't know if the volume was intentional, or a side effect of meeting the other requirements.
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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #651 on: 28 October 2017, 07:54:01 »
The Mistral is such a large ship compared to the old French ship they replaced. The San Antonio's have some space for growth still for future applications. I wonder what will go in there.
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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #652 on: 28 October 2017, 08:11:05 »
They had consumed 90% of the food by the time they were rescued.  this was confused with the comments that they brought food which could last for 1 year referring to it's perishability

It's a cute story anyway. Kid friendly fodder, methinks.

Since the dogs were still alive, they weren't really in peril quite yet...

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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #653 on: 28 October 2017, 08:21:13 »
Since the dogs were still alive, they weren't really in peril quite yet...
the thought did cross my mind  >:D "hmm, they haven't even eaten their livestock yet"  >:D

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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #654 on: 28 October 2017, 08:25:12 »
Years ago I used to have a coworker who used to be a sailboat salesman in San Francisco and he told me many of tale of people buying a boat who didn't know what they were doing sailing wise and the next day or next week they would be leaving the harbor to never be seen again.

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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #655 on: 28 October 2017, 09:37:45 »
I never got the opportunity to be on a GatorFreighter.  I was told those ships were tight quarters as not alot elbow room onboard.  Is that true?


On the basis of absolutely no experience, I was going to ask whether Marines are stored vertically or horizontally?


It isn't so much bunk space that I expected to be cramped but I am more curious about what the embarked troops do when not sleeping/occupying themselves in their bunks
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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #656 on: 28 October 2017, 09:52:33 »

On the basis of absolutely no experience, I was going to ask whether Marines are stored vertically or horizontally?



Both I would imagine. They sleep horizontally in stacks of bunks 2-4 bunks high I'm guessing.
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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #657 on: 28 October 2017, 09:58:24 »

On the basis of absolutely no experience, I was going to ask whether Marines are stored vertically or horizontally?


It isn't so much bunk space that I expected to be cramped but I am more curious about what the embarked troops do when not sleeping/occupying themselves in their bunks

Well, I suppose that as long as flight operations aren't going on, you can run them in circles around the deck until you're tired... :)

If the deck is busy or the weather is too nice, they've probably got oodles of gear that needs maintenance, or at least repeated disassembly/reassembly.
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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #658 on: 28 October 2017, 10:39:39 »
The Mistral ...

I wonder what will go in there.
So does the Russian navy.  >:D
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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #659 on: 28 October 2017, 10:57:54 »
Those ships are Egyptian now.
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