Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!

[Wrangler]

That's what happens when you don't fully pay attention.  Gaud.  #P

[I am Belch II]

That's one hell of a Q-Ship...

 ;D

Ruger

Talk about a arsenal ship.

[Wrangler]

Talk about a arsenal ship.

Isn't that vulnerable to low-flying cruise missiles or anti-ship missiles?  I thought that was one of the reason they never made one.  There been couple concepts.

This one was Popular Mechanic's interpretation.


I like this version better, but again it was vulnerable to being struck way it was setup.  I see those ships aside from the SSGNs as expensive launchers waiting to be sunk.

[HobbesHurlbut]

*reads* Wait what? "to accommodate amphibious assault teams, SEAL units, or even X-wing fighters."

[Ruger]

Isn't that vulnerable to low-flying cruise missiles or anti-ship missiles?  I thought that was one of the reason they never made one.  There been couple concepts.

This one was Popular Mechanic's interpretation.

I loved that article when I read it when it first came out...

Ruger

[Kidd]

Thats a lot of eggs in one basket... be a pity if I were to shoot a few torpedoes at it...

Plus its not just the missile tubes which are important, its also the fire control systems.

[HobbesHurlbut]

Thats a lot of eggs in one basket... be a pity if I were to shoot a few torpedoes at it...

Plus its not just the missile tubes which are important, its also the fire control systems.

Almost all of it is missiles. On a Frigate sized hull it seems. How much does having such low hull profile have an effect on radar detection. I mean hell even eyeballs would have a harder time spotting it without any normal superstructure of the kind at the long distance like other ships.

[Kidd]

Almost all of it is missiles. On a Frigate sized hull it seems. How much does having such low hull profile have an effect on radar detection. I mean hell even eyeballs would have a harder time spotting it without any normal superstructure of the kind at the long distance like other ships.

The question I'd ask is how is it finding targets for its missiles.

[Feenix74]

I like this version better, but again it was vulnerable to being struck way it was setup.  I see those ships aside from the SSGNs as expensive launchers waiting to be sunk.

I like that version too. Having worked inside the procurement system, the civilian freighter with AEGIS, VLS and painted grey would be what we would get because it satisfactorily achieves most of the Statement Of Requirements . . .

"A camel is a stallion designed by committee."

[Wrangler]

The question I'd ask is how is it finding targets for its missiles.

My understanding having read years ago what the (later concept) Arsenal ships were (unlike the PM articled envisioned by Metcalf) was suppose work.  Essentially they launched while having a nearby  Aegis equipped vessel guiding the missiles after they were launched.  Essentially it was just the launcher ship while another was the guidance ship (if they weren't per-programed like the Tomahawk missiles were during the 1990-1991 Persian Gulf War).

It must work since the Ohio Class is essentially setup the same way. It fires it's load and that's that.  Thinking about it, i'm surprised that Ohio Class SSGN has the word "G" in it since last time i checked, it meant the ship itself had radar/fire control controling the missiles verse just launching missiles.  I guess they didn't want invent a new designation like SSMN or SSAN (Missile or Arsenal).

[glitterboy2098]

to be honest, when they decided to use the SM-3's for anti-ballistic missile defense, i kept expecting an arsenal ship type design to be announced as a mobile defensive system.

[Wrangler]

The shipyard building the new LPD wants to make variant that's a ballistic missile defense ship. I don't think that going work out for them...it's LPD-17 with missiles and now-defunct railgun system.

[Liam's Ghost]

*reads* Wait what? "to accommodate amphibious assault teams, SEAL units, or even X-wing fighters."

[Kidd]

My understanding having read years ago what the (later concept) Arsenal ships were (unlike the PM articled envisioned by Metcalf) was suppose work.  Essentially they launched while having a nearby  Aegis equipped vessel guiding the missiles after they were launched.  Essentially it was just the launcher ship while another was the guidance ship (if they weren't per-programed like the Tomahawk missiles were during the 1990-1991 Persian Gulf War).

It must work since the Ohio Class is essentially setup the same way. It fires it's load and that's that.  Thinking about it, i'm surprised that Ohio Class SSGN has the word "G" in it since last time i checked, it meant the ship itself had radar/fire control controling the missiles verse just launching missiles.  I guess they didn't want invent a new designation like SSMN or SSAN (Missile or Arsenal).

The Ohio SSGN's Tomahawks are GPS-guided, and GPS guidance is still guidance. The G remains valid.

An idea ahead of its time - they've only just started putting Aegis Co-operative Engagement Capability (CEC) into use. But borrowing another ship's radars as detection, guidance and fire control simply makes that other ship the focus for enemy fire.

End of the day, superstructure is not just there for kicks and giggles. Its to put the radar up where it is useful.. and you need that radar.

[marauder648]

The OMFG quartet are very much useful and i'd not be surprised if we saw more Ohio's get converted into it as its far more useful.  Plus, a full barrage from one of the Ohio SSGN's could probably cripple a country's infrastructure.  A full salvo from one could probably cripple North Korea's bridge network and airfields.  Of course the problem is that they have so many Tomahawks, that replenning them isn't easy or cheap.

[Nightlord01]

Almost all of it is missiles. On a Frigate sized hull it seems. How much does having such low hull profile have an effect on radar detection. I mean hell even eyeballs would have a harder time spotting it without any normal superstructure of the kind at the long distance like other ships.

Massive reduction, just from a couple of metres, there's a reason why RCS is measured in square metres. :-)

My understanding having read years ago what the (later concept) Arsenal ships were (unlike the PM articled envisioned by Metcalf) was suppose work.  Essentially they launched while having a nearby  Aegis equipped vessel guiding the missiles after they were launched.  Essentially it was just the launcher ship while another was the guidance ship (if they weren't per-programed like the Tomahawk missiles were during the 1990-1991 Persian Gulf War).

It must work since the Ohio Class is essentially setup the same way. It fires it's load and that's that.  Thinking about it, i'm surprised that Ohio Class SSGN has the word "G" in it since last time i checked, it meant the ship itself had radar/fire control controling the missiles verse just launching missiles.  I guess they didn't want invent a new designation like SSMN or SSAN (Missile or Arsenal).

Nope, the G in the nomenclature actually refers to the ship carrying independently guided missiles. The type of guidance you are referring to is semi-guided, which I'm going to assume everyone on this board is familiar with. :-)

Incidentally, this is why the Spruance class were initially DD's, and the Anzac Class were FFH's, neither of them had autonomously guided missiles.

[Nightlord01]

Fully agree with you there but that is not always how the bean-counters in Treasury and/or the political advisers at PM&C see it. So sometimes you have to get a bit "creative" when you first develop the business case that goes up to avoid wonderful projects such as  Super Sea Sprite from being repeated. Therefore by calling the project Air Warfare Destroyer, we got an Aegis Frigate Destroyer.

Could you image if we had just called it Medium Sized AAW Combatant Project? We probably would have gotten an civilian freighter with an Aegis pyramid and a freight area full of VLS:

Lol, just my luck, I meant to respond to this post, then forgot about it. >.<

The beauty with having merchant ships is pretty well all of them are considered "large" by military standard, easy to achieve when the line is drawn somewhere between 8000 and 12000 tons, depending on what standard you are following. I concur with Ruger there, that's a Q-Ship, it's an awesome trick, but you'd really want your balls nailed to the wall before you tried it, since a superior opponent is simply going to sink all merchants they can find once it's unveiled and you'd cop all the blame. :-P

But yeah, the Navy sadly get's little to no say in what design is chosen, what they are called, or even how they are fitted out. Let's just say that the statement of requirements for the AWD project required each ship to have X number of VLS cells, and maybe the chosen design has Y. I can't really say more than that sorry. :-(

[marauder648]

[DoctorMonkey]

That picture of Aoba makes me think of dodgy second hand car salesmen - bit of work needed, one careful owner (all of the damage was done by the USN), low mileage (we ran out of fuel ages ago) etc

[Wrangler]

I'm not so hot on the older battleships from dreadnought era.  Can anyone identify this shio?  The name is bit blurr by way it's placed on the stern.

[marauder648]

Its the Italians 1st Dreadnought the Dante Alighieri she served as the baseline design inspiration for the Russians dreadnoughts, IE 4 x triple turrets, very little superstructure, casemated secondary guns, although the Dante also had some of her secondary guns in turrets, which was unique until post war.

[Wrangler]

Leave it to the Italians to put a porch outside the stern and make the name of the ship nearly unreadable.  #P
Lordy, i would HATED being on that porch if the seas got rough.  I know it's med, but still....someone could be washed out sea in no time and no one would have known.  I not aware if sound-powered phones were in use by this time design.

[marauder648]

Actually a lot of Dreadnoughts had those Stern galleys, they were also quite common on pre-dreadnoughts.  :)

[HobbesHurlbut]

Actually a lot of Dreadnoughts had those Stern galleys, they were also quite common on pre-dreadnoughts.  :)

example of a tradition that's centuries old... (holdover from the Age of Sailing when Ships of Line had ornate stern gallery)

[DoctorMonkey]

Actually a lot of Dreadnoughts had those Stern galleys, they were also quite common on pre-dreadnoughts.  :)

example of a tradition that's centuries old... (holdover from the Age of Sailing when Ships of Line had ornate stern gallery)

I'd guess they went away when it was realised the stern galley was just going to act as a shot-trap for high explosive shells and also that being downwind of all of that coal smoke wasn't actually all that glamorous

[marauder648]

Not even that really, basically it died when the Battleship finally did.  The US never put stern galley's on their ships and the WW2 German vessels were far too modern to have them so they remained a hangover for older vessels.

As you can see on this picture of HMS Warspite, even with her full refit, she retained her stern galley.  It was basically a walk area for the Admiral to go on, but wasn't anything like the old ships of the line, more a bulkhead door onto a small walking area.



the more modern British ships didn't have them, nor did the last of the Battleships, the Vanguard.

[Kidd]

Thus passed another illustrious age of sail tradition.

Now what about rum, sodomy and the lash? ::)

[HobbesHurlbut]

Thus passed another illustrious age of sail tradition.

Now what about rum, sodomy and the lash? ::)

Wasn't the RN forced to retire the rum ration in 1980s or such?

[JadeHellbringer]

There actually was talk of adding something like this to the two Nevada-class ships shortly after their completion- the 5-inch gun in the stern 'stinger' position was useless in all but the calmest seas, and was removed- so what to do with its casemate mounting? A few ideas were thought of, but the admiral's walkway was rejected due to the flag quarters not being anywhere near the stern on Nevada, and hardly existant at all on Oklahoma. Other ideas ended up rejected as well, and the casemate was eventually just plated in and the space used for supplies. The two ships retained the notch in their stern for the rest of their careers though, and makes for an easy way to identify them compared to the Pennsylvania-class (which never had these guns installed).

[kato]

Thus passed another illustrious age of sail tradition.

Well, that part on the stern starboard side does look kinda suspicious...



especially when you consider what's the closest cutout on the ship in this one: