Author Topic: Hearthguard - 2,500,000 Ton Clan Warship  (Read 6810 times)

Karack Blackstone

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 993
Hearthguard - 2,500,000 Ton Clan Warship
« on: 15 September 2019, 00:42:25 »
Hearthguard

Ship of the Line, on the drawing board.

I can go back in and redesign if anti-small craft firepower is needed.

More a proof of concept ship than anything. Still, lots of Cap Heavy Naval PPC guns, that's for damn sure!

New

Code: [Select]
Hearthguard Warship
Mass: 2,500,000 tons
Technology Base: Clan (Advanced)
Introduced: 3050
Mass: 2,500,000
Battle Value: 371,886
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-F-F
Cost: 40,055,826,000 C-bills

Fuel: 15,000 tons (37,500)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Sail Integrity: 9
KF Drive Integrity: 48
Heat Sinks: 14844 (29688)
Structural Integrity: 150

Armor
    Nose: 1378
    Fore Sides: 1378/1378
    Aft Sides: 1377/1377
    Aft: 1377

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Small Craft (5)         1 Door   
    Bay 2:  Fighter (30)            10 Doors 
    Bay 3:  Fighter (30)            10 Doors 
    Bay 4:  Fighter (30)            10 Doors 
    Bay 5:  Small Craft (5)         1 Door   
    Bay 6:  Cargo (100000.0 tons)   1 Door   

Ammunition:
None

Dropship Capacity: 6
Grav Decks: 4 (100 m, 100 m, 100 m, 100 m)
Escape Pods: 0
Life Boats: 229
Crew:  115 officers, 453 enlisted/non-rated, 182 gunners, 230 bay personnel, 150 BA marines

Notes: Equipped with
    lithium-fusion battery system
    2 Mobile Hyperpulse Generators (Mobile HPG)
    1 Satellite Imager [Infrared Imager]
    1 Field Kitchen
    2 Satellite Imager [High-Resolution (Hi-Res) Imager]
    1 Satellite Imager [Look-Down Radar]
    1 Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Large)
7,500 tons of lamellor ferro-carbide armor.

Weapons:                 Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)           Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (2,840 Heat)
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)  900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)  900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)  900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
8 Large Pulse Laser  80   8(80)   8(80)   8(80)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
12 Laser AMS         60   4(36)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
FRS/FLS (2,840 Heat)
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)  900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)  900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)  900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
8 Large Pulse Laser  80   8(80)   8(80)   8(80)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
12 Laser AMS         60   4(36)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
RBS/LBS (3,740 Heat)
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)  900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)  900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)  900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)  900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
8 Large Pulse Laser  80   8(80)   8(80)   8(80)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
12 Laser AMS         60   4(36)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
ARS/ALS (2,840 Heat)
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)  900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)  900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)  900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
8 Large Pulse Laser  80   8(80)   8(80)   8(80)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
12 Laser AMS         60   4(36)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
Aft (2,840 Heat)
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)  900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)  900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)  900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
8 Large Pulse Laser  80   8(80)   8(80)   8(80)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
12 Laser AMS         60   4(36)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         

OLD

Code: [Select]
Hearthguard Warship
Mass: 2,500,000 tons
Technology Base: Clan (Advanced)
Introduced: 3050
Mass: 2,500,000
Battle Value: 375,096
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-F-F
Cost: 40,071,826,000 C-bills

Fuel: 15,000 tons (37,500)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Sail Integrity: 9
KF Drive Integrity: 48
Heat Sinks: 14844 (29688)
Structural Integrity: 150

Armor
    Nose: 1378
    Fore Sides: 1378/1378
    Aft Sides: 1377/1377
    Aft: 1377

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Small Craft (5)         1 Door   
    Bay 2:  Fighter (30)            10 Doors 
    Bay 3:  Fighter (30)            10 Doors 
    Bay 4:  Fighter (30)            10 Doors 
    Bay 5:  Small Craft (5)         1 Door   
    Bay 6:  Cargo (100000.0 tons)   1 Door   

Ammunition:
None

Dropship Capacity: 6
Grav Decks: 4 (100 m, 100 m, 100 m, 100 m)
Escape Pods: 0
Life Boats: 229
Crew:  115 officers, 453 enlisted/non-rated, 182 gunners, 230 bay personnel, 150 BA marines

Notes: Equipped with
    lithium-fusion battery system
    2 Mobile Hyperpulse Generators (Mobile HPG)
    1 Satellite Imager [Infrared Imager]
    1 Field Kitchen
    2 Satellite Imager [High-Resolution (Hi-Res) Imager]
    1 Satellite Imager [Look-Down Radar]
    1 Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Large)
7,500 tons of lamellor ferro-carbide armor.

Weapons:                 Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)           Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (2,904 Heat)
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)  900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)  900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)  900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
12 ER Large Laser    144  12(120) 12(120) 12(120) 12(120)  Laser       
12 Laser AMS         60   4(36)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
FRS/FLS (2,904 Heat)
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)  900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)  900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)  900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
12 ER Large Laser    144  12(120) 12(120) 12(120) 12(120)  Laser       
12 Laser AMS         60   4(36)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
RBS/LBS (3,804 Heat)
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)  900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)  900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)  900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)  900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
12 ER Large Laser    144  12(120) 12(120) 12(120) 12(120)  Laser       
12 Laser AMS         60   4(36)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
ARS/ALS (2,904 Heat)
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)  900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)  900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)  900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
12 ER Large Laser    144  12(120) 12(120) 12(120) 12(120)  Laser       
12 Laser AMS         60   4(36)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
Aft (2,904 Heat)
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)  900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)  900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)  900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
12 ER Large Laser    144  12(120) 12(120) 12(120) 12(120)  Laser       
12 Laser AMS         60   4(36)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS             

Thoughts please?
« Last Edit: 02 October 2019, 20:15:12 by Karack Blackstone »

Liam's Ghost

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7919
  • Miss Chitty finds your honor rules quaint.
Re: Hearthguard - 2,500,000 Ton Clan Warship
« Reply #1 on: 15 September 2019, 00:55:22 »
Two considerations at first glance:

1) ATAC is intended to work with unmanned drone units like CASPARs or drone aerofighters, so you're not really going to get any use out of it.

2) The Laser AMS is waaaaay too overblown. Anything beyond twelve AMS per arc is arguably pointless, since that's sufficient to take out a killer whale or its nuclear derivative, and AMS bays engage every missile that enters their firing arc automatically as long as you have either ammunition or heat sinks to keep firing them. Which leads to another reason to scale back. You have a bit less than twenty three thousand heat dissipation and your AMS bays eat up a thousand of it with each volley, meaning you'd only be able to engage twenty two naval missiles a round, assuming you fired absolutely nothing else. It's a small enough margin that you could be overwhelmed with missile attacks, or alternately locked out of firing back for fear of an errant nuke getting through. As a third reason for cutting back, AMS don't require gunners, but they do require fire control tonnage. All those AMS make everything else heavier. You can actually see signs of that in your design, which is fairly lightly armed for a ship that big. That's fire control tonnage sucking away your potential warload. 

Also, you can only legally mount one lithium fusion battery.

Against fighters, sufficient naval PPCs are sufficient, since they can use bracket firing.
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

Karack Blackstone

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 993
Re: Hearthguard - 2,500,000 Ton Clan Warship
« Reply #2 on: 15 September 2019, 01:15:00 »
Tried some changes.

Thank you for the tips.

Heatsinks should be more. I have like 27,260 Clan Doubles in the thing in the Lab, but it for some reason truncates that number to the 11,200 in the export.
« Last Edit: 15 September 2019, 01:17:00 by Karack Blackstone »

nroe03742

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 231
Re: Hearthguard - 2,500,000 Ton Clan Warship
« Reply #3 on: 15 September 2019, 11:36:30 »
Two considerations at first glance:

1) ATAC is intended to work with unmanned drone units like CASPARs or drone aerofighters, so you're not really going to get any use out of it.

2) The Laser AMS is waaaaay too overblown. Anything beyond twelve AMS per arc is arguably pointless, since that's sufficient to take out a killer whale or its nuclear derivative, and AMS bays engage every missile that enters their firing arc automatically as long as you have either ammunition or heat sinks to keep firing them. Which leads to another reason to scale back. You have a bit less than twenty three thousand heat dissipation and your AMS bays eat up a thousand of it with each volley, meaning you'd only be able to engage twenty two naval missiles a round, assuming you fired absolutely nothing else. It's a small enough margin that you could be overwhelmed with missile attacks, or alternately locked out of firing back for fear of an errant nuke getting through. As a third reason for cutting back, AMS don't require gunners, but they do require fire control tonnage. All those AMS make everything else heavier. You can actually see signs of that in your design, which is fairly lightly armed for a ship that big. That's fire control tonnage sucking away your potential warload. 

Also, you can only legally mount one lithium fusion battery.

Against fighters, sufficient naval PPCs are sufficient, since they can use bracket firing.

this is the kind of critiq that I am needing for my own designs in my Nroe fleet thread. thanks for the info but I do have a question about your second point. yes 12 ams can destroy a killer whale missile and its nuke version but what if they launch hundreds of missiles in the salvo and only one killer whale or its nuke version how many missiles would be taken out then

Liam's Ghost

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7919
  • Miss Chitty finds your honor rules quaint.
Re: Hearthguard - 2,500,000 Ton Clan Warship
« Reply #4 on: 15 September 2019, 14:38:14 »
this is the kind of critiq that I am needing for my own designs in my Nroe fleet thread. thanks for the info but I do have a question about your second point. yes 12 ams can destroy a killer whale missile and its nuke version but what if they launch hundreds of missiles in the salvo and only one killer whale or its nuke version how many missiles would be taken out then

Under current rules, the AMS bay engages every capital missile individually, with the only limit to how many it can engage in one round being its ammo capacity or heat sinks.

So, assuming you have the ammo or heat sinks, all of them, even if they're all launched or reach the target in the same round and pass through the same facing where only one bay can engage.
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

Karack Blackstone

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 993
Re: Hearthguard - 2,500,000 Ton Clan Warship
« Reply #5 on: 15 September 2019, 16:02:17 »
Made one hopefully last revision.

Seems decent enough.

Andras

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 827
Re: Hearthguard - 2,500,000 Ton Clan Warship
« Reply #6 on: 15 September 2019, 19:43:49 »
The SI is way too low. You have 272kt of cargo, put half of that into SI and armor if that's what it takes, but only around 600pts of armor can get blown out by a cruiser in one go. You need at least 1000pts of armor on every side with that big of a ship.

Armor should be close to even on all faces, you can't count on keeping your nose pointed on, and you are losing out on most of your firepower if you do that.

Here's a NPPC heavy design I posted a while ago.

Code: [Select]
Class/Model/Name: Jove
Tech: Inner Sphere
Ship Cost: $34,728,834,004
Magazine Cost: $17,760,000
BV2: 341,737

Mass: 2,300,000
K-F Drive System: Compact with L-F Battery
Power Plant: Maneuvering Drive
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Armor Type: Lamellor Ferro-Carbide
Armament:
80 Naval PPC Heavy
48 Capital Launcher Barracuda
48 Naval Laser 55
48 PPC ER (IS)
48 Gauss Rifle (IS)
48 AMS (IS)

Equipment: Mass
Drive: 414,000.00
Thrust
Safe: 3
Maximum: 5
Controls: 5,750.00
K-F Hyperdrive: Compact with L-F Battery (45 Integrity) 1,063,750.00
Jump Sail: (9 Integrity) 145.00
Structural Integrity: 150 345,000.00
Total Heat Sinks: 11808(23616) Double 10,854.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 27750 points 11,322.00
Fire Control Computers: 11,640.00
Armor: 6990 pts Lamellor Ferro-Carbide 6,900.00
Fore: 1295
Fore-Left/Right: 1100/1100
Aft-Left/Right: 1100/1100
Aft: 1295

Dropship Capacity: 6 6,000.00
Grav Decks:
Small: 4 200.00
Life Boats: 128 896.00

Crew And Passengers:
119 Officers in 1st Class Quarters 1,190.00
386 Crew in 2nd Class Quarters 2,702.00
204 Gunners and Others in 2nd Class Quarters 1,428.00
300 Bay Personnel 0.00
9 1st Class Passengers (Flag) 90.00
300 2nd Class Passengers (all BayPers) 2,100.00


Cargo 81000 (1 door)
Fighters 72 (24 doors)
Small Craft 12 (6 doors)
Infantry 16x4 Battlearmor

Equipment
NCSS Large

Ammo Rounds Mass
Capital Launcher Barracuda Ammo 720 21,600.00
Gauss Rifle (IS) Ammo 4800 600.00
AMS (IS) Ammo 9600 800.00

# Weapons Loc Heat Damage Range Mass
20 Naval PPC Heavy FR 4500 3000 (300-C) Extreme-C 60,000.00
20 Naval PPC Heavy FL 4500 3000 (300-C) Extreme-C 60,000.00
20 Naval PPC Heavy AR 4500 3000 (300-C) Extreme-C 60,000.00
20 Naval PPC Heavy AL 4500 3000 (300-C) Extreme-C 60,000.00
12 Capital Launcher Barracuda Nose 120 240 (24-C) Extreme-C 1,080.00
12 Capital Launcher Barracuda RBS 120 240 (24-C) Extreme-C 1,080.00
12 Capital Launcher Barracuda LBS 120 240 (24-C) Extreme-C 1,080.00
12 Capital Launcher Barracuda Aft 120 240 (24-C) Extreme-C 1,080.00
12 Naval Laser 55 Nose 1020 660 (66-C) Extreme-C 13,200.00
12 Naval Laser 55 RBS 1020 660 (66-C) Extreme-C 13,200.00
12 Naval Laser 55 LBS 1020 660 (66-C) Extreme-C 13,200.00
12 Naval Laser 55 Aft 1020 660 (66-C) Extreme-C 13,200.00
12 PPC ER (IS) Nose 180 120 (12-C) Long 84.00
12 PPC ER (IS) RBS 180 120 (12-C) Long 84.00
12 PPC ER (IS) LBS 180 120 (12-C) Long 84.00
12 PPC ER (IS) Aft 180 120 (12-C) Long 84.00
12 Gauss Rifle (IS) Nose 12 180 (18-C) Long 180.00
12 Gauss Rifle (IS) RBS 12 180 (18-C) Long 180.00
12 Gauss Rifle (IS) LBS 12 180 (18-C) Long 180.00
12 Gauss Rifle (IS) Aft 12 180 (18-C) Long 180.00
12 AMS (IS) Nose 12 36 (3.6-C) PDS 6.00
12 AMS (IS) RBS 12 36 (3.6-C) PDS 6.00
12 AMS (IS) LBS 12 36 (3.6-C) PDS 6.00
12 AMS (IS) Aft 12 36 (3.6-C) PDS 6.00

I added 120 extra DHS for 20 additional AMS volleys above the 100% Heat sink coverage I already had.
5x4 HNPPC bays per corner arc and a 66pt Naval Laser bay on the F/B/A arcs brings as much firepower as yours does in the front/aft overlapping arcs and almost (11/12ths) as much on the overlapping broadsides.

One of my Barracuda missile volleys will wipe out enough of your heat sink coverage to shut down a HNPPC bay, and by firing around the corner I can bring two of them on you IIRC.


Karack Blackstone

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 993
Re: Hearthguard - 2,500,000 Ton Clan Warship
« Reply #7 on: 16 September 2019, 12:56:54 »
OP updated.

Karack Blackstone

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 993
Re: Hearthguard - 2,500,000 Ton Clan Warship
« Reply #8 on: 18 September 2019, 16:35:26 »
I have one final pass of fixes.

I need to provide some 2nd Class Quarters for the 30 Aerojockies and 150 BA Marines / Elementals.

Other than that, done.

Is this thing ready to be declared done, after all?

Andras

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 827
Re: Hearthguard - 2,500,000 Ton Clan Warship
« Reply #9 on: 18 September 2019, 19:36:09 »
Max out your doors. You should have the maximum of 33 doors to launch your fighters as fast as possible. Once I figure out how many doors I can have for fighters, I usually have 3x as many fighters.

With 33 possible doors, I'd probably have something like this
24 doors for 72 fighters.
6-8 doors for 12-16 SmCraft
1-3 doors for cargo bays.



Lagrange

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1419
Re: Hearthguard - 2,500,000 Ton Clan Warship
« Reply #10 on: 19 September 2019, 08:16:15 »
I usually make #fighters be a factor of 2 times than the number of doors for them, since you can launch 2/turn.

Also, I think doors need not be specifically dedicated to smallcraft independently of fighters.

Karack Blackstone

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 993
Re: Hearthguard - 2,500,000 Ton Clan Warship
« Reply #11 on: 19 September 2019, 16:47:55 »
Current plan when I get the time to make the changes is thus:

30 Fighter doors, 3 sets of 10, 90 total fighters.

2 Small Craft doors, unknown number of SC's.

1 Cargo door, spare tonnage. Not clear on how much that will be yet.

Karack Blackstone

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 993
Re: Hearthguard - 2,500,000 Ton Clan Warship
« Reply #12 on: 19 September 2019, 23:57:26 »
OP updated.

Karack Blackstone

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 993
Re: Hearthguard - 2,500,000 Ton Clan Warship
« Reply #13 on: 20 September 2019, 22:30:00 »
Done-ish?

Worth it?

Seems decent enough.

Karack Blackstone

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 993
Re: Hearthguard - 2,500,000 Ton Clan Warship
« Reply #14 on: 23 September 2019, 13:19:52 »
Should be final change.

Karack Blackstone

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 993
Re: Hearthguard - 2,500,000 Ton Clan Warship
« Reply #15 on: 24 September 2019, 17:22:27 »
Andras, one final question.

Do you think my ship would stand a chance against yours in a fight?

Why?

If willing to reply, thanks. If not, you're fine.

Andras

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 827
Re: Hearthguard - 2,500,000 Ton Clan Warship
« Reply #16 on: 24 September 2019, 18:48:07 »
Andras, one final question.

Do you think my ship would stand a chance against yours in a fight?

Why?

If willing to reply, thanks. If not, you're fine.

Well, now that you tripled the fighters and doubled the armor, yeah.

Karack Blackstone

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 993
Re: Hearthguard - 2,500,000 Ton Clan Warship
« Reply #17 on: 24 September 2019, 19:44:14 »
Thank you!

I thought it would help. The Cargo tonnage seems a bit light now, but, meh.

Karack Blackstone

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 993
Re: Hearthguard - 2,500,000 Ton Clan Warship
« Reply #18 on: 26 September 2019, 16:20:41 »
Hello.

I'm going to see if I can modify the number of DHS's as I have so many to free up enough weight for additional armor.

I intend to get at least 1,400 per facing, or at least, try.

Karack Blackstone

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 993
Re: Hearthguard - 2,500,000 Ton Clan Warship
« Reply #19 on: 27 September 2019, 12:27:17 »
Armor as is, which is maxed out.

Armor tonnage was wrong, fixed.

Tyler Jorgensson

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2877
Re: Hearthguard - 2,500,000 Ton Clan Warship
« Reply #20 on: 01 October 2019, 15:26:07 »
I like it, but not being an player of the Aerospace side of BT I can’t comment on how good it is.

Karack Blackstone

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 993
Re: Hearthguard - 2,500,000 Ton Clan Warship
« Reply #21 on: 01 October 2019, 19:20:49 »
Thank you, Tyler!

I don't really know either, but it can fire all of its Laser AMS batteries 22 times in total before having to finally worry about heat tracking and limitations!

Tyler Jorgensson

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2877
Re: Hearthguard - 2,500,000 Ton Clan Warship
« Reply #22 on: 01 October 2019, 22:34:14 »
I mean 100 odd Heavy Naval PPC’s is gonna leave a dent. Six Droppers is enough to carry a decent mix of supply, assault, or carriers without raising the cost too high. 90 fighters is a good air group: three full Trinaries of fighters and a handful of small craft for miscellaneous operations. I think the armor is good as is the SI, but DHS seems high to me. From what I could see the weapons only generate 30,000 of heat. The cargo is fine for such a large vessel: I’d assign it a Cargo Warship like a Carrack to shadow it. Good AA array in the lasers, but could probably use a couple more weapons IMO maybe some pulses? Also needs a portable HPG because as a Fleet Flagship is should have that capability: could probably use Naval C3? Also I need to look into how fuel is used: to me that number seems low but I know nothing on it lol

My two cents now that I’m out of work: again take with a grain of salt.

Lagrange

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1419
Re: Hearthguard - 2,500,000 Ton Clan Warship
« Reply #23 on: 02 October 2019, 06:13:06 »
Here are some optimization suggestions if you are interested.

(1) Convert 12x LAMS batteries into 4x LAMS + 8x AMS with some deep ammo reserves for AMS.  Drop some of your excess HS to make up for the ammo reserve.  LAMS is fine for dealing with small amounts of routine missile attacks, but you can deal with a much larger coordinated missile attack using AMS. 
(2) Drop AMS batteries from fore/aft right/left side arcs.  The broadside (L)AMS batteries cover the same hexes.  Dropping the redundant ones will help frees up lots of tonnage because you are beyond the 20 weapons/arc limit.  With this change, you'll only have 4 arcs with (L)AMS. 
(3) Shift all the broadside naval weapons into the Fore/Aft Right/Left side arcs.  The overlap of fore/aft arcs is almost the same as the broadside arc so there is little drawback, and the shift will help with fire control.  Furthermore, you get strong side arcs.
(4) Shift all the ERLLs in Fore/Aft Right/Left side arcs into the broadside.  This drops the weapon count in the the side arcs below 20 which means you have no fire control tonnage.  Note that the broadside arc can be used to cover many more directions than you might otherwise expect via an ECHO operation.
(5) Add 30 more ASF.   All these additional ASF can be launched in round 2 because you can launch 2 ASF/door.
(6) Consider swapping a few HNPPCs into several NL-55s.  NL-55s can be used in anti-ASF mode with only a modest penalty to very long ranges.  Furthermore, they do AE damage which means any ASF with reflective armor take double damage.
(7) If using individual ranges, consider swapping one HNPPC for a Light Naval Gauss bay.  They have just a bit more range so this prevents a faster warship from playing tag.
(8 ) Consider adding capital missiles into the broadside arcs.  Capital missiles are great at destroying stationary targets.  They can be fired from across a stellar system at a space station (for example).  Furthermore, multiple flights can be stacked so they all arrive at the same time via careful use of thrust between launches.  On the other hand, dropships can fulfill this role fine.

truetanker

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9952
  • Clan Hells Horses 666th Mech. Assualt Cluster
Re: Hearthguard - 2,500,000 Ton Clan Warship
« Reply #24 on: 02 October 2019, 13:49:22 »
I know it may sound strange, but I personally use Hull Defense vehicles all the time...

Have you considered such a tactic? Maybe a Binary of heavier ones for mobile defense, particularly when you lose a non-capital bay...

TT
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Karack Blackstone

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 993
Re: Hearthguard - 2,500,000 Ton Clan Warship
« Reply #25 on: 02 October 2019, 14:28:38 »
I'm struggling to consider ways to keep the firepower yet gain the advantage of using the NL 55's.

Yes it saves overall on tonnage, but the problem is, the Capital Weapons firepower seems to go lackluster to me.

I'm going to work on this a bit.

Lagrange

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1419
Re: Hearthguard - 2,500,000 Ton Clan Warship
« Reply #26 on: 02 October 2019, 16:37:50 »
Yeah, capital weapon damage/ton is an order of magnitude lower than other weapons. 

Incidentally, as long as you have a few NL55s to handle particularly long range fire against ASF, swapping the ERLLs for LPLs seems desirable.  Extreme range is pretty poor for hits, and the LPL's -2 to hit bonus tends to be pretty good.

Karack Blackstone

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 993
Re: Hearthguard - 2,500,000 Ton Clan Warship
« Reply #27 on: 02 October 2019, 17:08:24 »
I'm trying to figure that out.

Going to NL 55's over a full battery of HNPPC's (4) requires 12 to get to 60 Cap Dmg, 55 damage needing 11 NL 55's.

At 3000 Tons for a single HNPPC, and 1386 for a NL 55, it's not really a great "upgrade" when my firepower nosedives.

I may change the ERLL's to LPL's, which will about even out thanks to DHS needs going down as well as the tonnage up since the +2 Tons per weapon will occur.

Dang, this thing hits hard, but optimizing it surely isn't easy!

Lagrange

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1419
Re: Hearthguard - 2,500,000 Ton Clan Warship
« Reply #28 on: 02 October 2019, 17:56:00 »
Yeah, it seems like you are more slot-constrained than I realized.   

Instead of relying on NL-55s for small things at large ranges, you could use the HNPPCs in bracketing fire mode.  They annihilate an ASF on hit (24 capital damage), with a to-hit penalty against ASF of only +2 (+range).   That's less damage/ton vs ASF than an NL-55 array can put out, but the to-hit is 1 better and it doesn't cost extra slots.

Andras

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 827
Re: Hearthguard - 2,500,000 Ton Clan Warship
« Reply #29 on: 02 October 2019, 18:52:59 »
Check out this thread which has an analysis of the chance to hit fighters with various capital weapons. https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=52524.0

For most capital weapons, the chance is not very good. I'm certainly reconsidering some of my weapon choices since I read it.


 

Register