Author Topic: Protomechs and Formations  (Read 1406 times)

Crackerb0x

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Protomechs and Formations
« on: 06 November 2018, 15:58:29 »
So I'm trying to work on putting together a list using Protos and I'm trying to figure out how they work in putting them in Formations. For instance, I've got a mixed point of Protos. Does a point count as it's own formation size? If not, how do you reconcile mixed points of protos?

nckestrel

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Re: Protomechs and Formations
« Reply #1 on: 06 November 2018, 16:14:54 »
Rules-wise you could have five points being a formation.  But that’s not how clans would usually do it.  A formation of all protos would usually be the star of 25. Same as a formation of all tanks would be 10.
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Crackerb0x

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Re: Protomechs and Formations
« Reply #2 on: 06 November 2018, 16:21:28 »
Thank you,

Is there any way of reconciling mixed unit formations? Like if a point of protos, and 4 points of mechs makes a star, having 5 Juggernaut protomechs and 4 Scout mechs in the same star means that more than 50% of the formation is Juggernauts doesn't seem right. But I have to wonder then if the point is mixed with different proto roles, how that affects formation rules.

I promise I'm not trying to be super difficult,  I just see a guy I play with trying to do this in the future and I'm trying to figure it out before he does it.

nckestrel

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Re: Protomechs and Formations
« Reply #3 on: 06 November 2018, 16:30:41 »
Currently there’s no special rules to treat protos.
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GoldBishop

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Re: Protomechs and Formations
« Reply #4 on: 12 November 2018, 11:08:48 »
@Crackerb0x
it might be helpful to know which version of the AlphaStrike core rulebook you were looking at and referring to?

Originally, a single stat card was used to represent all 5 protomechs (as a single Point) which is as it is for BattleFORCE...  until a few years ago where there was Errata released that made each individual protomech it's own entity: 5 protos, 5 stat cards.  That practice is still present in the most recent errata (June 2018).
...
As far as "Formation" building... sounds like you're referring to the rules found in the Companion?
Good rule of thumb: the formation must meet all the requirements for the type of formation based on the type of formation (Recon Lance for instance, 100% must have a minimum movement speed) OR 100% of the units must be of the "ideal role" (Assault Lance for instance all units must have "Juggernaut" tag) (p.149-150).

...In your example, 5 juggernaut Protomechs and 4 Scout Mechs don't make a really good formation without knowing the speed of the protos (I'm assuming Minotaurs since I have fielded them in the past) or the weight of your Scouts (typically should be Lights or Mediums).  So this mix is no good  :(

However, if you bring 4 other mechs that are also "Juggernauts", despite the "must be Size 3 or larger" requirement for the Assault Lance formation (Companion p.151), because you have 100% Juggernauts, you satisfy the condition and can bypass the weight requirement.

If you go the other way and want a Recon Formation (all scouts or minimum speeds) I suggest proxying or trading for the lighter protomechs.  [I usually use my Satyrs for recon, but I've been known to stick Centaurs or Rocs in there; I don't have any 2nd gen protos to suggest, but your preference is entirely on your end]

Hope this helps.

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Scotty

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Re: Protomechs and Formations
« Reply #5 on: 12 November 2018, 13:06:57 »
While Protomechs are nominally organized into Stars of 25 Protos (when deployed in monogamous formations), the use of "Star" and "Lance" as descriptors for the formation bonuses is a bit misleading.  It is generally less of a headache to simply call the 5-model Point of Protos its own formation, and have the remaining four 'Mechs in the Star be of a separate formation.

The fluff section describing what does and does not commonly appear on an Inner Sphere battlefield is ultimately optional compared to the rules section that comes after.
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GoldBishop

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Re: Protomechs and Formations
« Reply #6 on: 20 November 2018, 11:00:10 »
While Protomechs are nominally organized into Stars of 25 Protos (when deployed in monogamous formations), the use of "Star" and "Lance" as descriptors for the formation bonuses is a bit misleading.  It is generally less of a headache to simply call the 5-model Point of Protos its own formation, and have the remaining four 'Mechs in the Star be of a separate formation.
...

 I agree that it's "less of a headache" to do it that way.  However, as a player of both Standard and Alpha, I would encourage anyone fielding Protomechs to strive to build their formations as complete as possible.  This typically means 5 protos, 2 vehicles, or 1 Battlemech or Infantry element for a single Point when establishing a single Star.

*****

Using the Formations out of the Companion or Campaign Ops?  Like aerospace units and infantry, Protomechs require a little more finesse to play effectively.  Below are some of the things I have observed over the years fielding them and some of my experience using the Formation Bonuses with PMs in my mixed Stars/Novas.

"As the unit-count goes up, certain formations become less ideal."
Specifically those formations that pass out individual SPAs such as Assault [Multi-tasker or Demoralizer], Fire (any), and Command.  The "individual" tends to get lost among the swarms, so it can get very confusing and frustrating late in the game as your elements start getting removed from the board or too far spread out to determine who would be the most effective holding onto that lone SPA.

"As the unit-count goes up, certain formations become more ideal"
Specifically formations where a percentage of the group receives the listed SPAs. Striker (Speed Demon), Recon (Forward Observer), and Pursuit formations have proven VERY effective, especially the latter which I use almost exclusively: I go from bringing 3 Bloodstalkers per Star (5*0.75 = 3.75, round down) to bringing 18 (25x0.75 = 18.75, round down).
[Math check: the total number of Bloodstalkers in a 25-unit formation is no different than 6 Pursuit Lances where 3 units from each lance receive the ability; the only difference here is diversity (in the 6 lances) versus repetition (protos); late in the game, foe assignment favors the Lances]

Personally, I've never honestly fielded more than 2 Point of Protos in the same formation at any one time.  [Gorgon and Minotaur 3s are both "missile boats" and put in the same Fire Star... which was silly because only 2 units could ever receive Oblique Attacker!]
Since I abide by my group-instituted "Limit 5" Gentleman's Rule (to keep the cheese-heavy Swarm rules down), I have developed and successfully implemented "Mixed Star" formations utilizing 5 Protos, 2 vehicles*, and 3 battlemechs*.  The Total Unit Count sits neatly at 10 for the formation, so a Pursuit Star only sees up to 7 Bloodstalkers (typically all 5 protomechs and both vehicles, but it varies based on games and gameday), while a Recon Star - if the conditions are perfect - will see 10 Forward Observers calling in artillery and other fire support... something very useful when playing Battalion/Cluster sized games or for campaign tracks.

* If the mechs and vehicles have the "OMNI" special, I also allow "Mixed Nova" to include a star of mechanized Battle Armor per the rule for Nova formations.  The Infantry still do not actually add to the total units in the transporting formation (count remains 10 for that particular formation), but if the BA qualify for their own Formation individually (such as the Anti-Mech Lance in Campaign Ops), they may be assigned that instead.

Hope this helps.
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nckestrel

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Re: Protomechs and Formations
« Reply #7 on: 20 November 2018, 11:23:40 »
It is my intention that the flat numbers in Formation bonus abilities will be replaced with fractions (half of the units, etc) with the AS:CE (and the errata posted back to earlier printings).
So Fire Lance would grant half of the units (round down) the SPAs. The Command Lance Tactical Genius would be one exception I recall.

(There's also changes coming for Novas.)
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GoldBishop

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Re: Protomechs and Formations
« Reply #8 on: 21 November 2018, 11:40:50 »
Not too worried about using fractions instead of percentages, especially since there will be some rounding to be done (half of a 5-point Star at 2.5 is still going to round down to 2 units)... and my players mostly agree with me that it might be "a little too cheesy" to allow 12 Oblique Attackers in a 25-unit Protomech star of nothing but missile boats... but mileage always varies, so maybe some folks will be happier with it that way.
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