How does Solaris work?

[Takiro]

Now I am talking about the sporting organization here folks. Currently I am thinking of Solaris campaign I am doing for which I've created a new gladiatorial league in which the PCs are currently gaming. But it has got me thinking - how the heck does Solaris really work? How do participants rise to the top? Are there different leagues and organizations like how Boxing is organized which have their different champions? Previously I've done tournaments akin to the NCAA or Tennis at each of the Big 5 arenas to determine the Top 20 seen in the Solaris 7 Box set. I'd love to hear what you think and if you have examples please point them out for citation. Thanks!!

[tassa_kay]

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Solaris_Games

Not intending this to be a sarcastic answer, I just figured it was a good starting point. :)

[skiltao]

Sarna's info is supposedly taken from MechWarrior's Guide to Solaris VII but, contrary to Sarna says, the book has bush league fights (where twenty to thirty MechWarriors all fight each other over the course of a year) being more common than single- or triple-elimination tournaments; and I haven't found anything yet in the book to back up Sarna's claim that the grand tournament has 128 competitors.

The first two RPGs (set in 3025 and 3050 respectively) say a contestant needs to win seven to nine total matches for a championship. That's for games held every three months, and it doesn't specify how the tournaments are structured.

When Justin Xiang arrives on Solaris VII in Warrior: En Garde, he basically tricks his way into good initial standings, and again it isn't clear how the grand championship is structured. We do at least learn that the Solaris Champion fights in the "Open Class" and doesn't have to accept challenges from MechWarriors whose 'Mechs are too light - a Centurion is too light for the Open Class, whereas a Rifleman is not. (I assume a Griffin is also too light but we don't know for sure.) We see a "Medium Class" fight between a Hermes II and a Vindicator, and an "Open Class" one where a Rifleman fights a pair of Vindicators.

The Solaris VII Boxed Set says there's a feeder system of smaller arenas which usually handle the lighter weight fights. Most successful fighters spend some years in the feeder system (I suspect mainly to develop contacts and learn how to work publicity). The boxed set is based on an article from the BattleTechnology magazine which adds more detail- small towns sponsor exoskeleton fights, and get a share of network profits as their local champion works their way up to the big city circuit; the big city circuit is divided into 8 levels, where a fighter can only challenge others on the same level or one level higher; and any fighter with 12 or more kills can decline a challenge from anyone without at least 12 kills.

I think expansions talk more about the bush leagues, and add competitions (like races, king of the hill, and so on) that aren't simple fights to the death.

The new Stackpole stories (described here) seem to describe a more traditional bracketed structure.

Granted, each of these snapshots are set decades apart - the tournament system may be changing over time.

[tassa_kay]

I’m personally curious to see what Solaris looks like under Wolf Empire rule.

[AlphaMirage]

Well Trial of Position just means something different I would guess if Alaric even deigns to pay any attention to such minor concerns

[Deadborder]

I’m personally curious to see what Solaris looks like under Wolf Empire rule.

Largely the same, save for the Wolves can now come in and challenge anyone at any time.

This lead to MechWarrior Kira, who is now my second-favouritest Wolf ever. She had the "courage" to challenge a Catapult with her reactive armour and Laser AMS equipped Warwolf. And then lost.

[Dayton3]

I always got the idea that the Solaris standings are often the results of lots of "who you know" and political pool as much as simple fight statistics.

Also,  the Solaris stables and arenas,  have a vested interest in promoting a fighter who the public (and Tri V ratings) indicate are "exciting".

Finally,   there are indications that being a current mercenary or former member of a Successor State armed force is a major leg up in getting started on Solaris as it means you've had REAL mech combat experience as opposed to just "playing" in the Arena matches.

[Takiro]

Good and Bad Reputation seems to play a role according to Mechwarriors Guide to Solaris. Of course Kai is a special example but i would think combat vets, Mechwarrior families, and nobility would also play in as factors.

Leagues seem like minor leagues of Solaris before duelists hit the open or championship circuit. Still unsure of that organization however.

What do u guys think of mercenary companies being a third type oforganization on world? Not a stable or cooperative but something different.

[skiltao]

Desperate mercs sometimes go to Solaris as their last chance to get money and become solvent. At least one champion, James O'Gordon, used his winnings to reform his merc unit.

The terms "stable," "collective" and "independent" basically describe who owns the 'Mech. (A wealthy sponsor, MechWarriors too poor to own one individually, or MechWarriors who do own their individual 'Mechs, respectively). Other than mixing those types, I don't see how a merc unit would be different?

[Takiro]

I guess a solvent mercenary unit can do what it wants. It could be considered a Stable or Cooperative I suppose but I was just thinking of a third designation called a Company to denote a mercenary unit or other security enterprise perhaps testing equipment here.

Independents is an interesting thought. Don't think I have ever seen to many of them.

Another one of my side projects is creating new arenas on the Game World as well, anyone ever try this before??

In the original Solaris 7 box set they have a poster for the Ishiyama Cup (Solaris Players Book Page 53) and that got me thinking of Tournaments in each of the Big 5 Arenas to determine an annual Champion. Ala Grand Tournament.

[Intermittent_Coherence]

I guess a solvent mercenary unit can do what it wants. It could be considered a Stable or Cooperative I suppose but I was just thinking of a third designation called a Company to denote a mercenary unit or other security enterprise perhaps testing equipment here.

Independents is an interesting thought. Don't think I have ever seen to many of them.

Another one of my side projects is creating new arenas on the Game World as well, anyone ever try this before??

In the original Solaris 7 box set they have a poster for the Ishiyama Cup (Solaris Players Book Page 53) and that got me thinking of Tournaments in each of the Big 5 Arenas to determine an annual Champion. Ala Grand Tournament.

I don't see how being there to test new equipment would make a difference regarding what they would be called. The stable/collective/independent nomenclature is based around ownership of mechs. Not purpose for being on Solaris.

You could set up something like VEST that builds its own mechs and sells designs to big mech factories, but you'd still have to work with one of the three to pilot your product in the arenas. Or get your own in-house mechwarrior and qualify as one of the three.

[grimlock1]

The financial model is a bit scary to consider. 

If we use the sports league model, the entire enterprise is funded by broadcast rights, advertising, merchandising, and ticket sales.  I'm guessing its in that order of precedence, given that there are a LOT more people watching from home than butts in seats.  Comstar probably takes a big bite out of the broadcasting profits but that's not the league's problem.  That's only a problem for the schlub who purchased the right to broadcast.  Now he has to figure out a way to actually do it for profit.

New lets look at the other side, what does the sport cost?  Unlike most major league sports today, the venues aren't owned/operated by either of the competing parties. So not only do the stables/pilots need to be paid, so does the venue.  And while we are talking venue, lets talk upkeep.  There are fixed costs of maintenance and upkeep to any large arena, but unlike any modern sport, Solaris arenas host competitors that blow big chunks of the facility to smithereens!!! So that has to be factored it.  Does the arena estimate damages, and call it gravy if all they have to do is replant some trees?

Speaking of damages, not only do stables have to pay the likely exorbitant salaries of their stars, but they have to keep rebuilding their mechs.  We know from Assumption of Risk that salary caps were put in place to curtail spiraling mechwarrior salaries but the costs of running a mech gladiatorial league are making my brain hurt.

[Takiro]

The financial model is a bit scary to consider. 

If we use the sports league model, the entire enterprise is funded by broadcast rights, advertising, merchandising, and ticket sales.  I'm guessing its in that order of precedence, given that there are a LOT more people watching from home than butts in seats.  Comstar probably takes a big bite out of the broadcasting profits but that's not the league's problem.  That's only a problem for the schlub who purchased the right to broadcast.  Now he has to figure out a way to actually do it for profit.

New lets look at the other side, what does the sport cost?  Unlike most major league sports today, the venues aren't owned/operated by either of the competing parties. So not only do the stables/pilots need to be paid, so does the venue.  And while we are talking venue, lets talk upkeep.  There are fixed costs of maintenance and upkeep to any large arena, but unlike any modern sport, Solaris arenas host competitors that blow big chunks of the facility to smithereens!!! So that has to be factored it.  Does the arena estimate damages, and call it gravy if all they have to do is replant some trees?

Speaking of damages, not only do stables have to pay the likely exorbitant salaries of their stars, but they have to keep rebuilding their mechs.  We know from Assumption of Risk that salary caps were put in place to curtail spiraling mechwarrior salaries but the costs of running a mech gladiatorial league are making my brain hurt.

Now that brings up a lot of interesting thoughts grimlock1 like the role of ComStar in the games. The renowned Solaris Games are said to be broadcast all over the InnerSphere but that is really just glossed over. I am sure the Order has been the biggest winner on these gladiatorial spectacles throughout the years and personally I've been thinking of giving them a bigger role on Solaris in my personal setting.

Certainly individuals and stables (companies) could be driven into insolvency pretty quickly if a match or two doesn't go there way. Folks who get their start on world seem to get involved in shady matches where winner takes all and what does the venue get for hosting?

Scouts, agents, and all that other stuff I haven't even considered delving into yet... ;)

[grimlock1]

Now that brings up a lot of interesting thoughts grimlock1 like the role of ComStar in the games. The renowned Solaris Games are said to be broadcast all over the InnerSphere but that is really just glossed over. I am sure the Order has been the biggest winner on these gladiatorial spectacles throughout the years and personally I've been thinking of giving them a bigger role on Solaris in my personal setting.

Certainly individuals and stables (companies) could be driven into insolvency pretty quickly if a match or two doesn't go there way. Folks who get their start on world seem to get involved in shady matches where winner takes all and what does the venue get for hosting?

Scouts, agents, and all that other stuff I haven't even considered delving into yet... ;)

I suspect that more than an hour or two of serious financial pondering will result in "Gorram FASAnomics!"

[Drewbacca]

Certainly individuals and stables (companies) could be driven into insolvency pretty quickly if a match or two doesn't go there way. Folks who get their start on world seem to get involved in shady matches where winner takes all and what does the venue get for hosting?

Scouts, agents, and all that other stuff I haven't even considered delving into yet... ;)

There is a sort of Catch 22 for Stadium owners here though that lines up with actual sports leagues. Sure the competitors need a place to compete, but the stadium owner needs an event to draw viewers. I would imagine from the fluff, many of the solaris areanas do not even have seats, which is what made the Steiner areana so special, it had the force fields to protect fans. That cuts down on overhead for the areana owner.

Now the competitors would like a big fancy areana, but any large enough field will do. So an areana owner who tries to gouge competitors is going to quickly lose business. That being said marketing is a big part of this and a fancy areana draws more eyes, so it is to the benefit of both parties to find a happy middle.

As far as brodcast rights, I would not be certain that comstar makes out any better with the solaris fights as with any other transmission. Remember, there are broadcast companies in universe not affiliated with the star. These arenthe ones making a play for the fight rights. They try to get a good deal with the various entities on Solaris and then shop the broadcast to advertisers who may want thier products linked to the games, everything from soft drinks and snacks to bookies and vehicle companies. When setting thier asking price they factor in Comstar transmission costs.

As to the stables and cooperatives they bear high maintanence costs but from all the fluff even the largest has maybe a company or two worth of mechs. And while that is still a lot even Wilson's Hussars were able to keep, what, a battalion operational. And they did not have the option of having people from Arc Royal to Filtvelt wearing t-shirts with thier insignia. Again, Solaris is all about marketing. Think Greenburg's Godzillas not just writ large but writ titanic.

[Drewbacca]

Note to self: Merc Unit that sells merchandise to help fund itself. Mayhaps a former D-Shark Tuk vet released from POW status by Comstar. Go. :D

[Drewbacca]

Are there other Game Worlds outside of Solaris and Noisel?

[Takiro]

Well none do it on the scale of Solaris not even Noisel which is a relative newcomer with its 'games' which are different from gladiatorial combat of Solaris.

The Capellans had two such worlds, Westerhand I believe is one.

And I believe one or two were in the Periphery, Illyria comes to mind.

[truetanker]

I was under the impression that IF you made to any Arena, you've made it. Otherwise your a nobody with a mech! Fighting for scraps to repair your mech or die trying.

TT

[grimlock1]

I was under the impression that IF you made to any Arena, you've made it. Otherwise your a nobody with a mech! Fighting for scraps to repair your mech or die trying.

TT

There's probably a bit more gradation than that. A bit of quick snooping showed that minor league baseball players can make anywhere from $1,100/month for A-level teams to $10,000/month for AAA teams.  There's probably a group of pilots and teams on Solaris who are doing "okay."  Not anywhere near a championship shot, but they win enough to be comfortable.  The owner isn't driving a Bently or Rolls-Royce, but they are driving a Cadillac or Lexus.

[Archangel]

I was under the impression that IF you made to any Arena, you've made it. Otherwise your a nobody with a mech! Fighting for scraps to repair your mech or die trying.

TT

At best you made it into the minor leagues.  Unless you perform some extraordinary feat that gets you a 30 sec spot on a late night news report (that hopefully gets the attention of somebody who can help your career) you are still a nobody.  IMO you are still a nobody until you at least break into the top 50 ranks and even then you still don't necessarily qualify as a "somebody."

[Kovax]

Are there other Game Worlds outside of Solaris and Noisel?

Lushann in the Outworld Alliance was called the "Solaris of the Periphery", from what I recall.

[qc mech3]

I always saw Solaris as the equivalent of formula 1 races.

If you're good enough (and/or have enough cash to pay for a cockpit), you get to do the equivalent of formula 3 or Atlantic for a farming stable in minor competitions until you get out or move up.

[Drewbacca]

I wonder if somewhere away from the main circuit or even the reaches there is a place for the truly desperate. A place for winner takes all matches where mechwarriors barely able to keep there mechs running fight for what ever c-bills they can find and the salvage from thier opponents.

[truetanker]

I wonder if somewhere away from the main circuit or even the reaches there is a place for the truly desperate. A place for winner takes all matches where mechwarriors barely able to keep there mechs running fight for what ever c-bills they can find and the salvage from thier opponents.

Ya the Pits, mostly located in Burgton, outside of Xolara, which surrounds Solaris City and the International and House Zones.

TT

Just take the back of a Solaris Map, draw some hills and terrain and call it light hills, use rain, twilight and mud to simulate the arena.