Tell me about the Heavy Rifle

[Moonsword]

Ladies and gentlemen, this is about the Heavy Rifle Cannon, not some non-canon derivative of the same.  Take that to the Fan Designs and Rules board as the forum rules direct you to.

[Nahuris]

or of course the old pack 75mm
http://www.ghqmodels.com/store/us61.html

That's the one I was looking for --- I have a set of those, they come with quite a few of those little itty bitty guns... in multiple pieces......
They are a PAIN to put together, but on a small base with a few infantry, look absolutely awesome.

Nahuris

[Jeyar123]

So I see the thread is over 90 days old (over 9 years), but it was close to what wanted to ask about.
I just a week ago bought a nice new battle tech tech manual on construction (grey cover) and was surprised that it didn't have any rifle stats. I get some of the newer techs not included, but I wanted to try out making old time units. Are heavy rifles even "official" tech for building?

[Wrangler]

Their still used in the periphery.

The Rifle Cannons are found in Tactical Operations, they considered to be experimental technology.

[Stinger]

So I see the thread is over 90 days old (over 9 years), but it was close to what wanted to ask about.
I just a week ago bought a nice new battle tech tech manual on construction (grey cover) and was surprised that it didn't have any rifle stats. I get some of the newer techs not included, but I wanted to try out making old time units. Are heavy rifles even "official" tech for building?

Even more so, they are complicated to use from a rules perspective.  I think that is why they are "experimental" more than anything.  BMM covered most of the simpler to use Tech.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

BattleMech Manual also focuses on mech-to-mech rules and much of the rifle cannon rules focus around non-mech units.

[SteelRaven]

Considering Rifles only exist to show how more advanced BTUs Auto Cannons are to the 20th Century counterparts, don't feel like it's a must need for everyone. I personally can only think of deploying a Heavy Rifle unit as a joke in a double blind game; player rounds a corner and a mech has 'em dead to rights. The enemy mech fires and... Does nothing, it's a Arbiter dressed up to look like a Urbie.

[SCC]

Even more so, they are complicated to use from a rules perspective.  I think that is why they are "experimental" more than anything.  BMM covered most of the simpler to use Tech.

Sarna lists Rifles (Cannon) as being on the table of contents for BattleMech Manual. BMM has EVERYTHING that can be mounted by a BattleMech, Tech Manual restricts itself to only stuff that is tournament legal at the time of it's printing, but covers BattleMech units as well. And Rifle aren't complicated from a rules perspective, they're just so old they're not worth including (They should be too bad to take normally, but do OK against BattleArmor)

[Greatclub]

I've said it before - Rifle canons are mook guns and hysterical oddities. They are perfect for those roles.

[DOC_Agren]

About the only real use is on units facing Infantry and Light Vehicles.  I have used them on units designed to hunt down "rebel" forces. 
example Striking Cobra Light Attack and Recon Aircraft at no point should this craft in a gunship mode or any other be put against modern forces if you want them to come home.

[Wrangler]

I was thinking that there would be some kind of version of the MechBuster in some form armed with a Heavy Rifle(s) or large aircraft with pair for Age of War setting.

It would be nice

[CarcosanDawn]

The thing with the Rifle Cannon is weight. It's hard to convince me the technology is actually "better" if the AC-10 is 4 tons heavier.

"Our new and improved AC10, fires the latest ammunition from a high-tech super reinforced barrel!"
"Why does it weigh so much?"
"Ummm...."
"Did you just quadruple barrel and breach thickness without changing anything?"
"Sir that information is classified! Trade secret!"
"Uh huh."

[Greatclub]

During the depths of the succession wars you might have a point - except they never lose bar 10 armor, so the gun does 6 damage to things that matter.

Move into the tech revival era and the performance of the 3 ton (5.5 with DHS) light PPC does 80%against the majority of things you're going to shoot at (ba infantry and buildings being exceptions)

It's a Mook gun.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

The Heavy Rifle also gets only 6 shots per ton vs the AC 10's 10 shots.

[Wrangler]

I personally like MW5's version.  The guns have a slow reload but not the damage reduction

[CarcosanDawn]

During the depths of the succession wars you might have a point - except they never lose bar 10 armor, so the gun does 6 damage to things that matter.

Move into the tech revival era and the performance of the 3 ton (5.5 with DHS) light PPC does 80%against the majority of things you're going to shoot at (ba infantry and buildings being exceptions)

It's a Mook gun.

Yes, quadrupling the barrel's thickness does let you fire higher quality shells.

Innovation!

[SteelRaven]

I personally like MW5's version.  The guns have a slow reload but not the damage reduction

I honestly have issues with the way PGI depicted the Heavy Rifle and the Chemical Laser, they just made the another variety of Auto-Canon and Laser to hunt down with the Heavy Rifle now a light weight AC/20. The TT doesn't do rate of fire well, a simulator on the other hand; an AC/20 that's nearly half the weight, just a little more wait between shots, Clan tech is almost a side grade now. I understand PGI needed to sell their DLCs but that depiction of Rifles felt more like a fan mod akin to MekTek's RAC 20s.

Yes, quadrupling the barrel's thickness does let you fire higher quality shells.

Innovation!

Keep in mind that in real life; the AC/5 came first, followed by the AC/2, AC/10 and AC/20, then Ultra AC/5 and LB-10X, ect. If anything, your complaint is that CGL should have made the Heavy Rifle suck *more* when they created Primitive tech for the Time of War setting.

[CarcosanDawn]

Keep in mind that in real life; the AC/5 came first, followed by the AC/2, AC/10 and AC/20, then Ultra AC/5 and LB-10X, ect. If anything, your complaint is that CGL should have made the Heavy Rifle suck *more* when they created Primitive tech for the Time of War setting.

Yes; or rather made auto cannons suck less. I was looking at the Icarus II yesterday and considered what a customization might look like...

Swapping the AC/10 for a PPC nets you 7 free tons between armor and heatsinks; this lets you put in 6 more heat sinks (if you want to stay heat neutral firing the Medium Lasers) and still a ton more armor...

You get a longer range, and while you have a shorter range gap (with only 2 MLas and Slas to cover it) you have the Improved Targeting (Short) quirk to compensate...

[SteelRaven]

I am a fan of PPCs in general, (so dakka boyz of the ac)5 nafia hate me on principle) but a weapon system for another topic.

[SCC]

Until everyone's using standard armor the Heavy Rifle has the advantage over the AC/5 on a per turn basis.