Hardpoints (final rules)

[Red Pins]

Ok, had to finish this for a unit to design it.  Opinions welcome.

Hardpoints

  Participating in development teams to develop innovative new Battletechnology, Laborers from Clan Frost Ape were inspired by the use of netting to allow Battlemechs to carry cargo.  Investigation into modular, hand-held weapons proved impractical, but further investigation eventually concluded externally mounted Pods to take advantage of their lifting capacity were technically feasible.

Construction Rules

  Primitive Battlemechs may not carry Hardpoints.  Bipedal Battlemechs and Omnimechs require 0.5 tons per arm and a single Critical Space to mount Hardpoints.  Due to balancing issues both arms must carry Hardpoints.
  Each Hardpoint requires a fixed amount of Internal Structure depending on the mass of the Battlemechs they are designed for, as seen in the Pod Mass Table below.  Pods may mount a variety of weapons and equipment, with 3 restrictions; 1) Each Pod requires a small amount of Internal Structure to maintain its integrity (shown in the Pod Mass Table below), without which it is considered destroyed.  Each pod may carry up to double the Internal Structure of Standard Armor if the designer wishes.  2) Ammunition fed weapons must have their ammunition stored within the pod itself.  3) Pods may supply ammunition to an arm-mounted weapon or weapons but must be assigned to the Critical Slots next to the weapon or weapons to do so.  4) Pods must carry identical Heatsinks (Standard, Double, Compact, etc.) to the unit they are attached to.
  Pods carry items in a fashion similar to vehicles.  Each Pod can accommodate a number of items calculated by the formula Critical Slots=(Remaining tonnage after IS and Armor)/(Mass of Internal Structure).

Tonnage           20   25   30   35   40   45   50   55   60   65   70   75   80   85   90   95   100   150
Lift Capacity     1.0      1.25      1.5     1.75      2.0      2.25     2.5      2.75      3.0      3.25     3.5      3.75     4.0      4.25      4.5      4.75       5.0          7.5
IS Tonnage       ----------------------------------0.25 0.5-------------------------------------------   1.5

Max Payload (Pod)    0.75     1.0       1.25   1.50     1.75      2.0      2.25      2.5        2.5     2.75      3.0      3.25     3.5     3.75      4.0       4.25      4.5          6.0
Max Items (Pod)         3      4        5     6       7        8      9      10       4      4       5       5       6      6       7       7        8        12

Game Rules

•   Damage to a Pod from weapons, physical attacks, and falls is a potential result of damage to the limb carrying the Hardpoint.  To determine if the Pod is hit, roll 2d6 every time the limb is hit, on a result of ‘12’ the Pod is hit and takes damage normally.  All items in the Pod are assumed to be destroyed.
•   The loss of a Pod or Hardpoint can be accomplished in several ways; destruction of the Arm critical which clamps the Pod to the limb, destruction of the Pod’s Internal Structure, and jettisoning the Pod.  To Jettison, the player must announce its loss at the end of the Turn before rolling Initiative.  If one Pod is destroyed, the other must be Jettisoned before beginning the next Turn.
•   Ammunition stored in Pods will explode if the Pod is destroyed but will not injure the Mechwarrior.  Damage caused by these ammo explosions are reduced by half and applied against the armor of the limb carrying it unless CASE is used, in which case the unit suffers no damage.
Ammunition in Pods is not affected by the high heat of a Battlemech or the effect of heat-inducing weapons on the arm of the Battlemech, but Pods containing ammunition will explode from direct hits by Inferno missiles or Plasma weapons.  Fire hexes will not cause an ammo explosion.
•   Pods destroyed during the Weapon, Physical, or Artillery phase are not available for use in the next phase.  If one Pod remains, all benefits from both Pods ends as the remaining Pod is Jettisoned at the end of the Turn.

Ex. 1) A 45-ton Preta is assigned Hardpoints.  The player assigns locations on the record sheet for each Hardpoint (one per arm), and notes that the maximum tonnage of each Pod is 2.25 tons.  Subtracting 0.25 tons for the Pod’s Internal Structure, the Preta has two tons remaining in each Pod.  The player then assigns CASE, a half-ton of MG ammo, and two Machine Guns to each Pod.
2) An 80-ton Awesome is assigned Hardpoints.  The player assigns locations on the record sheet for the two Hardpoints (one per arm), and notes that the Pods carry a half-ton of Internal Structure, a half-ton of armor (8 AP), two Double heat sinks, and a B-Pod for a total of 4.0 tons.

*Author’s Note; The large number of items carried by Pods was included to accommodate BA equipment and weapons for the units of the Blake Threat file.  If not doing so, it can be safely ignored.

[namar13766]

Can Quads mount Hardpoints?

Can the Pods mount Cassette Missile Systems?

If a mech had the Maximum-sized hardpoints, could they mount smaller pods?

[AlphaMirage]

I'm confused as to what this does, are you basically coming up with an alternate way to use handheld weapons?
I feel like its a lot more complicated than the rules for those, which are quite simple if limited (although I do allow handhelds to be held in one hand if light enough).

Now if the hardpoints allowed quads to use external weapons like the handheld equivalents based on their cargo capacity, now that would be a game changer, since they are so critical starved.

[Red Pins]

Can Quads mount Hardpoints?

Can the Pods mount Cassette Missile Systems?

If a mech had the Maximum-sized hardpoints, could they mount smaller pods?

The first or second draft had quads able to mount them, but the final doesn't.  Didn't think I'd like the way it looked, like those knee-mounted guns on the Comstar missile mech (name escapes me right now.)

Yes. The Cassette Missile System can be carried by Mechs in the latest draft of their rules.  Still a little ambivalent about it, but it fits in with the Legacy Cluster's design theory.

Yes, they can choose to use smaller Pods or just not use all the tonnage available to the Pod, but there's no benefit to it.  They still can't Jump.

I'm confused as to what this does, are you basically coming up with an alternate way to use handheld weapons?
I feel like its a lot more complicated than the rules for those, which are quite simple if limited (although I do allow handhelds to be held in one hand if light enough).

Now if the hardpoints allowed quads to use external weapons like the handheld equivalents based on their cargo capacity, now that would be a game changer, since they are so critical starved.

Basically?  IIRC, I made these about the time of the BMR, so I don't think handheld weapons were a thing at the time.  'Hardpoints' use the 'Mechs lifting strength to add modular systems - a 0.5 ton clamp supported by the IS of the Mech's arm, and 'Pods' holding weapons, equipment, and ammo.  Limited modularity for 3050 Mechs and added weapons, heatsinks, and equipment were the motivation.

And, yeah, it would have been handy for quads, but I thought about it this way: Each leg has to move in a quadruped locomotion for it to move; wouldn't adding mass to two legs make it harder for it to move?  I guess if you choose to say they can at your table its no big deal, but I'd suggest no using them for IS or FF crit packs.  I think they should stay with the skeleton.  Let me know how it works out. 

Also, I just wanted these to be DONE - I wanted to use these on another unit and since I didn't have their rules nailed down I had to give up and put the project on hold until these were done.  I'll post a link to the unit, but its a Deva with 6 useful tons and all the crits to use them.  Probably feed a double Clan SRM-6 in both arms as well, I wanted to keep exploding ammo outside the Mech to increase its durability and endurance as much as possible.

[AlphaMirage]

I thought to mount the hardpoints on a quad's back since that is where its lift capacity is, putting them on legs would limit its mobility and the super great advantage of going prone and hiding behind cover grants them.

[Red Pins]

I thought to mount the hardpoints on a quad's back since that is where its lift capacity is, putting them on legs would limit its mobility and the super great advantage of going prone and hiding behind cover grants them.

Yeah, but then they're turrets.  I suppose the argument could be made they're 'saddlebags', but still...

[namar13766]

Could you do something like one pod has drone racks/cubicles, while the other one has the drone control systems for said drones?

[Red Pins]

Could you do something like one pod has drone racks/cubicles, while the other one has the drone control systems for said drones?

I thought about mis-matched Pods, but don't want to end up with something like 3 Medium lasers in one and LRM-5 and ammo in the other.  I thought it would be safer to say they had to be identical pods, but if you want to do that go ahead.

And you could put the storage - Drone racks or cubicles - in a Pod.  The drone transmitter, yes - but both arms would have to have one under these rules, so it would be a waste.  The drone control console?  No.  It would have to be like a 2nd cockpit, or something.  And you wouldn't want to have a cockpit in an arm, anyway.

[namar13766]

I am guessing that the extra light mechs can’t mount these, but what about industrialmechs?

Because if you’re telling me that the ability to rapidly reconfigure for multiple roles wouldn’t be used for an Industrialmech ( especially in an emergency being pressed into service as combat units), I got some oceanfront property in Arizona to sell you.

[Red Pins]

I am guessing that the extra light mechs can’t mount these, but what about industrialmechs?

Because if you’re telling me that the ability to rapidly reconfigure for multiple roles wouldn’t be used for an Industrialmech ( especially in an emergency being pressed into service as combat units), I got some oceanfront property in Arizona to sell you.

 

Uh.  Never thought about industrialmechs.  I'm not sure, frankly.

First, the IM needs fire control, right? I'm not sure what else.

Second, don't a lot of them use Industrial TSM?  Isn't that always on?  That would mean, what?  Double the possible max tonnage of the Pod?  That would be nice.  And a convenient way to skip the heatsinks etc.

I'd say it would be cool, but optional. 

[namar13766]

So do you have a series of pods for each tonnage already made up?

[Red Pins]

So do you have a series of pods for each tonnage already made up?

No - in game terms, because the Pods are designed to be modular, they can be designed to make up for whatever deficiency needs to be addressed at the time.
  For example, the Hunchback carries 10 rounds of ammo.  It can't use ammo from from either Pod - the AC/20 has no weapon critical in either arm, so it can't feed the autocannon.  But it can carry backup weapons like 2 ER-MLs in each Pod.  If you want to go to mixed tech, you could carry a Clan LRM-5 and a ton of ammo in each.

I plan to list a series of pods for the Deva, intended to emphasize its role for the standard 4-5 loadouts, but that's because its main rival, the New Clan Carnoraptor OmniMech was designed to carry them.

[VanVelding]

They're a nice version of handheld weapon rules. They add the ability to supplement heat sinks and ammunition, in addition to having structural requirements which is more consistent with the game's aesthetic.

-The requirement that the critical slot for the Hardpoint Equipment on the carrying Battlemech be adjacent to any weapons which use ammunition from that pod seems like a reasonable balancing issue. However, it strips the traditional abstraction from the critical slot system. We kind of accept that amidst all of the whirring machinery and shrapnel that ammunition feeds snake invincibly between any two points on a 'mech. Even omnimechs. Limiting it by adjacency feels weird. Limiting by section seems like a reasonable compromise.

-I'm not sure I understand critical space inside of pods. Critical Slots=(Remaining tonnage after IS and Armor)/(Mass of Internal Structure) is the formula given, but in the example for the Awesome, I get a bit lost. Critical Slots = (4.0 - (0.5 Structure + 0.5 Armor)) / 0.5 = (3.0 / 0.5) = 6 Crits. Two double heat sinks and a B-pod should be 7 critical slots. Vehicles, IIRC, use an item slot system. If that's the case maybe, "Critical Slots" is a bit of a misnomer?

-I have formatting notes, but that's not generally the sort of feedback folks want.

I also have issues about handheld weapons, but those stem from the cargo carrying rules which are their own mess and not your fault. Seems like an interesting system.

[VanVelding]

Oh and as far as having quads use them. I think there's every reason to allow them on torsos, as long as they're mounted in pairs (or singly on a CT). It's all the same cargo space and there's no actuator requirement (or penalty for destroyed actuators) involved in their use.

Though I guess there's no cargo carrying penalty. Do regular handheld weapons count against a 'mech's cargo capacity?

[Red Pins]

They're a nice version of handheld weapon rules. They add the ability to supplement heat sinks and ammunition, in addition to having structural requirements which is more consistent with the game's aesthetic.

-The requirement that the critical slot for the Hardpoint Equipment on the carrying Battlemech be adjacent to any weapons which use ammunition from that pod seems like a reasonable balancing issue. However, it strips the traditional abstraction from the critical slot system. We kind of accept that amidst all of the whirring machinery and shrapnel that ammunition feeds snake invincibly between any two points on a 'mech. Even omnimechs. Limiting it by adjacency feels weird. Limiting by section seems like a reasonable compromise.

-I'm not sure I understand critical space inside of pods. Critical Slots=(Remaining tonnage after IS and Armor)/(Mass of Internal Structure) is the formula given, but in the example for the Awesome, I get a bit lost. Critical Slots = (4.0 - (0.5 Structure + 0.5 Armor)) / 0.5 = (3.0 / 0.5) = 6 Crits. Two double heat sinks and a B-pod should be 7 critical slots. Vehicles, IIRC, use an item slot system. If that's the case maybe, "Critical Slots" is a bit of a misnomer?

-I have formatting notes, but that's not generally the sort of feedback folks want.

I also have issues about handheld weapons, but those stem from the cargo carrying rules which are their own mess and not your fault. Seems like an interesting system.

Ah!  Excellent!  You picked up on the 'poke the hole in the armor and feed live ammo through the internal structure'-concept!   

The original and 2nd draft needed a dedicated ammunition crit, with the Hardpoint feeding the ammunition into the Ammo crit and THEN to feed the weapon.  The final draft accepts the fact that most people never think about how an ammo feed goes from a torso, through the shoulder joint, down the inside of the arm, to be loaded into a weapon.  Insanity!  I had to bend a bit, so I decided that, no, not every unit would carry them, and they had to be manufactured with an intent to use Hardpoints or limit themselves to energy weapons and equipment.

Umm.  That's my headcanon, anyway.  I should probably add that.  Only a couple of the Celestials I had to finish these rules for are going to use the Ammo Pods - the Deva (in the same class as the Carnoraptor Omnimech, a mech so broken you wouldn't believe it) and the Archangel.

Also, note the requirement to carry ammo for ammo-fed weapons in the Pod beside it.  And the need to roll boxcars on every arm hit to determine if it hits the Hardpoint.  In playtest, a single hit immediately left every user  at a significant disadvantage.

As to the number of slots, the 2nd last sentence of the construction rules states, "Pods carry items in a fashion similar to vehicles."  So, 4 tons - .5 tons armor and .5 tons Pod IS equals 3 tons of mass remaining.  3 tons of mass / .5 tons is 6 item slots, of a maximum of (3.5 tons / 0.5) 7.

Yep, its wrong!  Thanks for the catch, the current file shows a max of six, the CORRECT max is 7, with the example leaving 6 item slots.

AAnnnd, fixed.  Dang, that's annoying.  I don't wonder why FASA and WizKids had such problems with fact checking anymore.

[VanVelding]

Ah!  Excellent!  You picked up on the 'poke the hole in the armor and feed live ammo through the internal structure'-concept!   

Of course I'm interested in what rules submitted by fellow fans add; what am I, a reactionary douchebag?

Can Hardpoint Equipment be added as an omnipod?

[Red Pins]

Of course I'm interested in what rules submitted by fellow fans add; what am I, a reactionary douchebag?

Can Hardpoint Equipment be added as an omnipod?

Yes, well, there's no shortage of people who consider fan made to equal garbage.  I generally recommend Cent13's TRO:3063 or some of Marauder648's work to look at, but..

And yes, Hardpoints can be added to Omnis.  In the first and second, all units had to explicitly use them as fixed equipment, but when somebody pointed out CASE could be used by Omnis I decided they should be able to use these too.

[DevianID]

I always liked the idea of external carried stuff.  Roguetech plays around a lot with a mechs external carrying capacity, and the rules have backpack jump jets as great items and handheld weapons which I always found meh.

So I like the idea of some kind of cargo based equipment, but like AlphaMirage said its a bit wordy for me.

Id take an external backpack mounted BAP or ECM (or both!), ruined when the unit comes under fire and takes 1 damage per the normal cargo carriers rule unless you also have external tonnage to armor it.  Same with a backpack LRM or mortar for indirect support--it wouldn't obscure the front like handhelds would, but it also wouldn't have LOS being mounted on the back and would have to fire indirect.  Also, some backpack emergency rear shot weapons, ruined when shot but good for deterring back attacks while not impacting front/arm weapons would also be great.

[namar13766]

Would it be possible for a pair of mechs to load pods onto a third mech or would that require a Mech Bay?

[Red Pins]

Would it be possible for a pair of mechs to load pods onto a third mech or would that require a Mech Bay?

A Jifty, JI-100 Transportable Field Repair Vehicle, Paramour MRV, Patron - Anything that can lift the Pods so techs can open the access panels and use the motorized clamps on the arm to grasp the Pod.

I have no idea what that equates to for repair time or whatever.