What kind of BA would the Society design?

[Empyrus]

The other Society BA thread isn't actually about canon Society but an AU, so i made this to talk about potential Society BAs for normal BattleTech.

The Society didn't really use BA for various reasons. But had they had time to keep growing their strength and plan more? I can see them developing BA, even if it would be used in small numbers.

The primary roles for BA in the Society would be special ops and fire support. I doubt they'd have enough Elementals to equip them for direct combat, and if they would, they'd use the Elemental Battle Armor or possibly their own variant of it (contrast to Z configurations of several existing OmniMechs).

Also, i'd say the Society would be willing to use mixed tech suits or otherwise copy Inner Sphere technologies, where applicable, and if applicable. And otherwise, they did have "anything goes" attitude, so there is no compunction against unconventional warfare or stealth. High tech would be also on table, due to the Scientist caste being what they are, plus limited number of the suits. Of course the Society would also make mistakes, as they did with their other designs, so perfection isn't really a goal as much as sort of extreme specialization.

(Logically there could be new equipment for BA, such as "BA Nova CEWS", but i'm not gonna come up with any ideas here. Feel free though.)


Using some of these principles, i came up with a fire-support Battle Armor. No name yet, couldn't think of anything.

Limited numbers means protection is important, and because of that, we might as well make the suit an Assault-class suit. Indeed, limited numbers also means that suit size isn't a concern as long as we don't pay attention to cost and resources.
High tech and unconventional warfare means we might make the protection Improved Stealth while at it. How much of it? This depends on the armament...
What is fitting for the Society without resorting to things we've seen already, like quad-AP-Gauss rifles? I know just the thing: The Heavy Medium Laser. It hasn't been used in any canon BA design, it is powerful and advanced, so it is just the right thing for the Society's BA, while being flawed as well, thematically fitting. The large mass means a Detachable Weapon Pack is almost mandatory, and using the DWP makes a quad-body a natural choice due to DWP's speed reduction. The weapon is mounted on a turret as well, this has no effect on standard scale BT but it makes sense in-universe.
At this point, we have the answer to the armor question. 14 points is how much we can cram in this suit, though this foregoes movement upgrades. It is under the critical 15 points but 14 is double Clan ERML or MPL so it ain't all bad. Good enough for the Society; "Who in his or her right mind is gonna expend a Gauss slug against a BA", the Scientists think.
All in all, we have a powerful and stealthy suit, excellent for ambushes, and giving massive firepower support for infantry units.
It does make one large blunder though: Transporting the suit is problematic especially since it ain't fast by itself. Unfortunately the Society isn't really interested in thinking about such thing as logistics, that's the Merchants' task...

Code: [Select]

Needs a name HML
Base Tech Level: Advanced (Clan)
Level          Era
-------------------
Experimental    - 
Advanced       3072
Standard      3073+
Tech Rating: F/X-X-F-F

BV: 699
Cost: 4,115,000 C-bills

Movement: 2/2

Internal: 5
Armor: 70 BA Stealth (Improved)
           Internal  Armor   
------------------------------
Trooper 1         1     14   
Trooper 2         1     14   
Trooper 3         1     14   
Trooper 4         1     14   
Trooper 5         1     14   

Weapons                    Loc   Heat 
---------------------------------------
Heavy Medium Laser (DWP)  Point    7   

Equipment                         Loc   
----------------------------------------
Detachable Weapon Pack (Turret)  Point 


So, any thoughts? Any other ideas? What about the spec ops armor i proposed, or an Elemental variant for the Society?

[truetanker]

Officially?

They'd have had any BA right up to the end.

SLDF PA(L) Nighthawk Mk. XXI, XXII and XXX
Corona, Corona SRM
Gnome, Gnome LRM
Resgate and variants
Salamander
Sylph
Undine, Undine Upgrade

TT

[Red Pins]

Hmm.  Ok, as you can see by my photo, I like the Tortoise II. Turns out - you can design a BA with wheels.  Legs according to the construction rules, but fluffed as wheels.  Now - imagine a trailer behind it, up to equivalent mass as the BA.  Now, that’s worthy of the Society.

[Tyler Jorgensson]

A point I was going to make in the other thread until I saw this one: the Soceity has a 'lot' of ProtoMechs. If they did use Battle Armor IMO it should be something that the ProtoMech does not do (and neither can a horde of infantry armed with crude weapons or technicals). IMO a Society armor would have some hybrid cross between a Buraq, Undine, Sylph, and that new tech in the back of Wars of Reaving. Cool new cutting edge t h and odd concepts seem their style.

Now don't get me wrong: your version is good for them: the Clans wouldn't expect a horde of Heavy Laser shots from BA.

And the idea of a Soceity Tortoise is funny and I approve.

Just my two cents ...

[Red Pins]

A point I was going to make in the other thread until I saw this one: the Soceity has a 'lot' of ProtoMechs. If they did use Battle Armor IMO it should be something that the ProtoMech does not do (and neither can a horde of infantry armed with crude weapons or technicals). IMO a Society armor would have some hybrid cross between a Buraq, Undine, Sylph, and that new tech in the back of Wars of Reaving. Cool new cutting edge t h and odd concepts seem their style.

Now don't get me wrong: your version is good for them: the Clans wouldn't expect a horde of Heavy Laser shots from BA.

And the idea of a Soceity Tortoise is funny and I approve.

Just my two cents ...

I predict you'll stop laughing when you see just how broken they can be  :o  Think a Star of SRM carriers.

[Empyrus]

Okay, so a Clan-Tortoise and something between the less popular Clan BAs?
Gotta think... Not too many options but i'll try.
Also gotta think about my thinking of Society-style specops armor and modified Elemental.

[Empyrus]

Okay, still gotta think about the Clan Tortoise and other BAs but i did come up with a modified Elemental for the Society. Might be sacrilegious. Also folded spec-ops BA into this suit, because why not?

This is relatively extensive rework of the Elemental, but i do think it works when one considers that it is not meant for direct combat like the standard Elemental but for special operations.

First, mobility. I took a page from the later Elemental II and swapped the jump jets for increased ground speed, but i also needed the mass for other stuff. Weaker in combat perhaps but more stealthy. Armor is Clan Basic Stealth, 10 points. The backpack SRMs are also replaced, with a single-hex ECM and a Light TAG, utility over firepower (imagine one SRM tube being replaced with a ECM dome and the other with the TAG). I was going to use an Angel ECM originally but the version of MML i have is bugged and treats that as an infantry weapon... but no problem, i feel using a TAG and ECM is more interesting. I did consider improved sensors and active probes but i couldn't fit them in reasonably.
For armament, this thing has two basic manipulators, two AP weapon mounts, fixed AP-Gauss Rifle, and reverse-engineered or otherwise obtained Firedrake Needler.

I have no idea if this thing makes any sense. But i figure the Society might be using few of their relatively rare battle armors for tasks that are very unClan-like. Instead of devoting resources for a new design, they'd take the ubiquitous Elemental and tweak it for their needs.

Code: [Select]

Elemental Battle Armor [Society]
Base Tech Level: Experimental Mixed (Base Clan)
Level            Era   
-----------------------
Experimental  3072-3083
Advanced      3084-3109
Standard        3110+ 
Tech Rating: F/X-X-F-E

BV: 513
Cost: 1,907,500 C-bills

Movement: 3/3

Internal: 5
Armor: 50 BA Stealth (Basic)
           Internal  Armor   
------------------------------
Trooper 1         1     10   
Trooper 2         1     10   
Trooper 3         1     10   
Trooper 4         1     10   
Trooper 5         1     10   

Weapons                                                Loc   Heat 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Gauss Rifle [Anti-personnel Gauss Rifle] (Right arm)  Point    1   
Swarm Mek                                             Point    0   
Attack Swarmed Mek                                    Point    0   
Stop Swarm Attack                                     Point    0   
Leg Attack                                            Point    0   
Needler (Firedrake) (Left arm) (IS)                   Point    0   
TAG (Light) (Body)                                    Point    0   

Equipment                                           Loc   
----------------------------------------------------------
BA Manipulators [Manipulator (Basic)] (Right arm)  Point 
BA Manipulators [Manipulator (Basic)] (Left arm)   Point 
Anti Personnel Weapon Mount (Right arm)            Point 
Anti Personnel Weapon Mount (Left arm)             Point 
Single-Hex ECM (Body)                              Point 


[Red Pins]

We saw they were concerned enough to attempt sabotaging the Clan's Naval assets; perhaps a BA designed for long-duration (over 24-hour) sabotage might be a good prospect?  After all, if they can't move their military units, they sacrifice initiative and put themselves at a disadvantage fighting on the defensive.

*edit - Couldn't leave well enough alone, just had to look at a possible BA/trailer combo.  As written, the rules would seem to go;
2000 kg
structure - 700 kg
Motive - +1 - 160 kg <-860 kg
Manip - 2xBattleclaw w/magnets* - 70 kg <- 930
Armor - 15 AP x 35 kg (Clan Stealth (Improved)) - 525 kg <- 1,455 kg

The rest, I don't have the experience to design.  I'd propose L-TAG (turret), 2xMG (turret), and maybe a mortar.

For the trailer, I'd propose using the same rules vehicles do for engine, space, tow speed.

For a name, maybe Freya from Norse mythology.  A chariot, pulled by a giant cat, as it were.

[Empyrus]

Uh, pretty 100% sure the BA can't do trailers.
Of course, one can house-rule adapt trailers for them. Which isn't something i'll go for.


By the way, i really have no idea how the Society would do a Tortoise-like suit. Tortoise's idea is that it uses the IS chassis and Clan armor along with DWPs to mount a lot of weapons. The problem here is that any similar suit winds up being a copy rather quickly. There are some adjustments possible, depending what kind of weapons are OK, but overall it wouldn't be too dissimilar.
That said, the Society using IS chassis is plausible if they see Elemental soldiers and disposable and don't have access to HarJel.

[Robroy]

Don't think of it as a trailer, think more of a horse, or in this case, quad drawn cart.

[Red Pins]

Hey - that's the Society for you.  Creative little devils.

[UnLimiTeD]

I think the society would definitely bend the rules as established.
F.Ex. add propulsion methods that normally don't go together.

Code: [Select]

Paradox
Base Tech Level: Advanced Mixed (Base Clan)
Level          Era
-------------------
Experimental    - 
Advanced      3083+

BV: 221
Cost: 2,305,000 C-bills

Movement: 3/3/5

Internal: 5
Armor: 25 BA Stealth (Basic), 5 per Trooper

Weapons                           Loc   Heat 
----------------------------------------------
Machine Gun (Light) (Right arm)  Point    0   
TAG (Light) (Left arm)           Point    0   

Equipment                                      Loc   
-----------------------------------------------------
Cutting Torch (Left arm)                      Point 
BA Manipulators [Armored Gloves] (Left arm)   Point 
BA Manipulators [Armored Gloves] (Right arm)  Point 
Light spec Ops suit with VTOL movement - mentally add 3 UMUs, please. Now you got a suit that can swim and fly. I think that's very society.
With their focus and expertise in protomech design, they really only need BA for jobs that Protomechs can't perform. Perform well, at least.
Protos generally got speed and firepower, they lack in concealment, fighting in buildings, and they obviously can't do swarm attacks. You'd also not use them for TAG if you had something else to do the job.
Something the society could definitely do is a space marine suit. They'd have no qualms to use bladed claws and other such equipment, so I could see them floating a damaged dropship in orbit over a defendable world, with a faint distress signal, then wait to be boarded, kill everyone (or die, it really makes no difference) and send the boarding craft back contaminated with bio weapons. Oh, and boobytraps. The WoB could explode. I think the society would probably rather have remote controlled suits, given their personell situation, but why not?

Combat wise, yeh, firedrake's good. I can also see the combination of improved stealth with a camo system, though I doubt that made it's way over from the IS in production-worthy form. Then again, they could surely adapt that themselves; And voilla, you have suits that give you a +5 to hit at long range before other range- or targeting modifiers. With the clans often reluctant to use artillery, they'd be quite the nuisance, and all they'd have to do is stand there. Well, maybe with a tag laser and minelayers.

[Xeno426]

Code: [Select]

Needs a name HML
Base Tech Level: Advanced (Clan)
Level          Era
-------------------
Experimental    - 
Advanced       3072
Standard      3073+
Tech Rating: F/X-X-F-F

BV: 699
Cost: 4,115,000 C-bills

Movement: 2/2

Internal: 5
Armor: 70 BA Stealth (Improved)
           Internal  Armor   
------------------------------
Trooper 1         1     14   
Trooper 2         1     14   
Trooper 3         1     14   
Trooper 4         1     14   
Trooper 5         1     14   

Weapons                    Loc   Heat 
---------------------------------------
Heavy Medium Laser (DWP)  Point    7   

Equipment                         Loc   
----------------------------------------
Detachable Weapon Pack (Turret)  Point 


So, any thoughts? Any other ideas? What about the spec ops armor i proposed, or an Elemental variant for the Society?

I'm not sure how you got that many points of armor with a HML Assault Clan armor with movement 2 and a single HML mounted on a Detachable Weapons Mount can only fit 11 points of (Improved) Stealth BA armor. What is the weight of that HML thing in HML?
Regarding name, you should go for some science based one. Given that the original Clan BA was the Elemental, I'd suggest going for chemistry-based names.
Maybe Porphyrin? Since this kind of unit will really make the enemy bleed.

[Kasaga]

Empyrus:  This is the subject of my Terran Hegemony in Exile threads.  I've been trying to design Society Battle Armor and other equipment not because I want to give the Society new equipment but because I like their style, tech base and visual look of the designs.  Let me know what you come up with.  I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

Also will be releasing the next chapter (long over due) in my spec ops storyline.

[Empyrus]

I'm not sure how you got that many points of armor with a HML Assault Clan armor with movement 2 and a single HML mounted on a Detachable Weapons Mount can only fit 11 points of (Improved) Stealth BA armor. What is the weight of that HML thing in HML?
Regarding name, you should go for some science based one. Given that the original Clan BA was the Elemental, I'd suggest going for chemistry-based names.
Maybe Porphyrin? Since this kind of unit will really make the enemy bleed.

It is a quad, which grants free movement point and thus enables the suit to work. Heck, the DWP can be mounted in a turret to boot (no effect on normal BT though). Bipedal suit indeed would be limited to considerably lower armor amount.
Has 20 kg left over actually.

[Xeno426]

It is a quad, which grants free movement point and thus enables the suit to work. Heck, the DWP can be mounted in a turret to boot (no effect on normal BT though). Bipedal suit indeed would be limited to considerably lower armor amount.
Has 20 kg left over actually.

Ah, didn't notice that.
Yeah, that works. You could probably drop in an AP Weapon Mount, leaving the space for whatever you want to attach to it.

[Empyrus]

Ah, didn't notice that.
Yeah, that works. You could probably drop in an AP Weapon Mount, leaving the space for whatever you want to attach to it.

There are few things one can certainly do with 20kg (or more, if one optimizes things for tabletop BT and leaves out the turret), but i went with nothing because i figured that would fit the Society and in a sense the Clans overall. Specialization, that's something the Society does (consider the Osteon's configurations for example), plus there's no waste of time and materiel for anything the unit doesn't really need. Flawed thinking, to be sure, but that was the intent. Finally, i figure the thing may be a tad rushed, some of the Society protomechs have unused mass but deliberately so, apparently, the powers that be deciding they're unfinished since the Society revolt started too early.

[The_Caveman]

I imagine the Society would just crank the gene-manipulation in their Elemental sibkos up to 11 and breed Evangelions.

[Xeno426]

Keep in mind that due to the DWP, the unit has 1/1 movement, not 2/2.

Bit of a shame. Can't really fit the HML onto a BA with 2/2 movement while maintaining decent armor.