Author Topic: BattleTech 2.0: New rules for modifiers  (Read 31205 times)

abou

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Re: New rules for modifiers
« Reply #60 on: 09 July 2018, 12:37:23 »
No, sorry, I goofed on my labeling. Arm hits would be 16.67% and leg hits only 8.33%

Papabees

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Re: New rules for modifiers
« Reply #61 on: 09 July 2018, 13:35:15 »
No, sorry, I goofed on my labeling. Arm hits would be 16.67% and leg hits only 8.33%
These numbers feel better to me.

Fear Factory

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Re: New rules for modifiers
« Reply #62 on: 09 July 2018, 14:33:03 »
Yeah but then arms become more fragile and get hit more than side torsos.  They can't carry as much armor as legs.  Partial cover is for protecting legs.

« Last Edit: 09 July 2018, 14:35:55 by Fear Factory »
The conflict is pure - The truth devised - The future secured - The enemy designed
Maj. Isaac "Litany" Van Houten, Lone Wolves, The Former 66th "Litany Against Fear" Company

Papabees

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Re: New rules for modifiers
« Reply #63 on: 09 July 2018, 17:14:56 »
Yeah but then arms become more fragile and get hit more than side torsos.  They can't carry as much armor as legs.  Partial cover is for protecting legs.


Well that's kinda the point. The faster the arms go the faster the Torsos go.

abou

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Re: New rules for modifiers
« Reply #64 on: 09 July 2018, 17:25:29 »
I see what you mean, but arm hits are already more likely on the current chart. If leg hits become even less frequent I think that changes things in ways that don't feel right.

Fear Factory

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Re: New rules for modifiers
« Reply #65 on: 09 July 2018, 18:27:54 »
Well that's kinda the point. The faster the arms go the faster the Torsos go.

And the faster the legs go the torsos will go too.

I don't want this game to be like MechWarrior 2 where your arms constantly fly off...  I honestly think the hit location tables are fine now (with our changes for right/left side).  In this case, if you want to speed the game up flank your target and get those rear torso hits.
The conflict is pure - The truth devised - The future secured - The enemy designed
Maj. Isaac "Litany" Van Houten, Lone Wolves, The Former 66th "Litany Against Fear" Company

garhkal

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Re: New rules for modifiers
« Reply #66 on: 10 July 2018, 01:43:34 »
The idea here was to combine Alpha Strike, the PC game, and the classic system.  You still count hexes, but the need to keep track of that for the combat phase is removed because you get the full TMM for at least moving 1 hex.  There is no more waiting for someone to figure out how to get the highest TMM.

Never seen the rules for alpha strike, so didn't recognize the basis..

Jumping = +2 modifier to fire, full TMM for the movement with full heat.  Critical hits, water, things of that nature will lower this TMM and adjust heat.  This was decided to prevent getting a full TMM for minimal heat (3).

So, why can i fire when i jump, but not when i run?  That's what i am not understanding here..

I didn't think of that.  I think giving quads a bonus for facing changes, like 2 hexsides without losing stand still, could work.

That might be nice..

Yes, as it is now, but you re-roll leg hits so weapons still connect.

Sort of a crossbreed of the older crit rules (only punch chart) vs new rules (impacts the hill if you rolled legs)..

Yes they do.  We decided to give water a boost with this because we're trying to make terrain more than a to hit modifier.  This is also more in line with fluff/novels.

But if btb, they are already at double, how is putting them to just 1.5 heat per sink, being a 'boost'?  OR is that 1.5 on TOP of the doubling?

That seems like a really good idea.  Thanks!   :)

Glad you liked it..

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abou

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Re: New rules for modifiers
« Reply #67 on: 10 July 2018, 06:40:45 »
So, why can i fire when i jump, but not when i run?  That's what i am not understanding here..
Simplification of movement based off of the BattleTech PC game and Alpha Strike. There are trade-offs to each decision. So running gets you more distance and a higher TMM, but you can't fire. Jumping gets you through terrain and you can fire, but the higher TMM also gets you a higher to-hit modifier and full heat.

To be honest, you are the only person who has questioned it. In Alpha Strike, there is no running at all: just walking and jumping.

Fear Factory

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Re: New rules for modifiers
« Reply #68 on: 10 July 2018, 07:47:56 »
So, why can i fire when i jump, but not when i run?  That's what i am not understanding here..

Abou beat me to it.

Sort of a crossbreed of the older crit rules (only punch chart) vs new rules (impacts the hill if you rolled legs)..

Yes.  The only difference is that leg hits don't whif and the odds are not as high (1/6) for hitting the head.

But if btb, they are already at double, how is putting them to just 1.5 heat per sink, being a 'boost'?  OR is that 1.5 on TOP of the doubling?

If you have no heat sinks in your legs and you stand in water you can dissipate more heat.  Having heat sinks in the legs also adds to this.

Code: [Select]
For L1 water: 1/2 TMM for moving unit. +2 to hit and re-roll per leg hit. Heat dissipation is vastly
improved. In addition to number of submerged heat sinks to a maximum of 6 extra points of sinking
ability, each leg generates an additional -2 sinking ability. This was reasoned that a 'mech being
made mostly of metals, which are excellent conductors, would likely be able to dissipate more heat
than the rules allow. Example: A Rifleman 3N standing in L1 water would dissipate 5 heat due to the
two legs and one heatsink in the left leg. A Scorpion would dissipate 8 additional heat, but all limb
hits would be re-rolled for the torso.

The main advantages of water is the amount of heat you can dissipate and the partial cover modifier.  The disadvantage is that leg hits are re-rolled, so damage becomes more concentrated, which means armor breaching can happen a lot faster. 
The conflict is pure - The truth devised - The future secured - The enemy designed
Maj. Isaac "Litany" Van Houten, Lone Wolves, The Former 66th "Litany Against Fear" Company

Reglor

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Re: New rules for modifiers
« Reply #69 on: 10 July 2018, 15:59:01 »
Simplification of movement based off of the BattleTech PC game and Alpha Strike. There are trade-offs to each decision. So running gets you more distance and a higher TMM, but you can't fire. Jumping gets you through terrain and you can fire, but the higher TMM also gets you a higher to-hit modifier and full heat.

To be honest, you are the only person who has questioned it. In Alpha Strike, there is no running at all: just walking and jumping.

It might be easier to understand if you call it sprinting.  That exists in both the tabletop and PC and you can't fire in either.

abou

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Re: New rules for modifiers
« Reply #70 on: 10 July 2018, 16:31:08 »
Understandable, but my goal is to avoid changing stats and terms as much as possible. You open a TRO, it says running not sprinting. Plus traditional sprinting has it's own movement distance, but a lower TMM because a lack of evasive movement.

Reglor

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Re: New rules for modifiers
« Reply #71 on: 10 July 2018, 16:40:23 »
But you are by making running the equivalent of sprinting.

abou

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Re: New rules for modifiers
« Reply #72 on: 10 July 2018, 17:23:17 »
Not really. The movement isn't the same and sprinting makes you easier to hit compared to distance moved. This was an area we wanted to simplify to speed up the game. Running is a movement mode for distance and tactical advantage.

If you guys want, you can fire if you run and it can generate a +1. I just wanted to make this part of the game faster and snappier, but force the player into key decisions. I find it more interesting if your decisions have trade offs. If you have an elite pilot, they can do almost anything they want. Here though, the player weighs the pros and cons while also speeding up gameplay.

Fear Factory

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Re: New rules for modifiers
« Reply #73 on: 10 July 2018, 19:08:27 »
*** EDIT ***

I'm going to elaborate a bit more on this so you all can understand what Abou and I are trying to accomplish.

These are the movement modes (per unit type) as it stands:

All units must end their movement 1 hex outside of their starting hex to generate a TMM.  Stand still cannot be achieved if units turn more than 1 hexside (quads 2 hexsides).  This prevents turret tech.  We also decided that making movement modes work differently prevents running 1 hex, getting full TMM, and firing weapons for really no drawbacks.

BATTLEMECH

Stand Still = -1 modifier for firing while standing still.  Cannot turn more than 1 hexside (2 for quads).
Move = Walking MP, no modifier for firing while moving.
Sprint/Evade = Running MP, cannot fire weapons or perform physical attacks (except charge), +1 to the units TMM.
Jump = Jumping MP, +2 modifier for firing while jumping instead of +3.  Jumping provides a full TMM with full heat no matter what distance is traveled.  Critical hits, or jump jets submerged in water, will lower total heat and TMM.

VEHICLES

Stand Still = -1 modifier for firing while standing still.  Cannot turn more than 1 hexside.
Move = Cruising MP, no modifier for firing while moving
Flank = Flanking MP, +2 modifier for firing weapons while using this mode.

We have been debating on what to call these modes, but playtesting a few games does show that this system works really well.  It took a significant amount of time off of games without making it feel different.
« Last Edit: 11 July 2018, 23:35:50 by Fear Factory »
The conflict is pure - The truth devised - The future secured - The enemy designed
Maj. Isaac "Litany" Van Houten, Lone Wolves, The Former 66th "Litany Against Fear" Company

Fear Factory

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Re: New rules for modifiers
« Reply #74 on: 11 July 2018, 23:31:18 »
A while ago I tried redoing vehicle charts.  Here's what I propose:

1 - Bring back the simplicity of the old rules
2 - Ensure better survival of vehicles and their crews by giving them a "vehicle check table" that works for major critical hits and for consciousness checks (like 'mechs and fighters)
3 - Change some of the meta for them to justify the fluff (like using ballistics and missiles over energy weapons).

First, the chart:

Code: [Select]
Ground Vehicle Hit Location Table

Roll (2d6)   Front/Rear    Right/Left Side
2            Front(Crit)   Side(Crit)
3            Front1        Side1
4            Front2        Side2
5            Front3        Side3
6            Right Side    Front
7            Front         Side
8            Left Side     Front
9            Front         Rear
10           Turret        Turret
11           Turret4       Turret4
12           Turret(Crit)  Turret(Crit)

NOTE:  If the unit has no turret, transfer damage
       to the main arc's location

Code: [Select]
Hit Location Damage Effect
1 - Motive system heavily damaged (-2 base MP)
2 - Motive system damaged (-1 base MP)
3 - (HOVER) Motive system damaged (-1 base MP)
4 - Turret locked in position

Code: [Select]
Critical Hit Effects (1d6)
1 - No effect
2 - No effect
3 - Power converter hit (energy weapons disabled)
4 - Engine hit (see vehicle check table)
5 - Crew hit (see vehicle check table)
6 - Ammo explosion (unit destroyed)

All of the modifiers would stack.  To make a vehicle immobile you have to stack the modifiers for motive hits.  Once it hits 0, you're immobile.  Hovercraft are slightly more affected by hits.  I also modified the charts for the right/left side so there is a chance to hit the rear (like we did for 'mechs).  Critical hits are also no longer a death sentence under the 1d6 rules.  A vehicle can still die from an ammo explosion if it carries ammo.  If not, it's no effect.  Abou also had the idea of throwing in a hit that disables energy weapons so it improves the meta of the game.  Combined with the new vehicle check chart, it makes sense why some vehicles have fusion engines (the survive engine hits a lot better) and carry ballistics (energy weapon converters get whacked, this will be for both fusion and ICE engines).

Code: [Select]
Vehicle Check Table

Crew hits   Effect 
        1 - 4+ consciousness check, +1 modifier to fire
        2 - 9+ consciousness check, +2 modifier to fire
        3 - Crew killed

OR

Crew hits   Effect 
        1 - 4+ consciousness check, +1 modifier to fire
        2 - 7+ consciousness check, +2 modifier to fire
        3 - 10 + consciousness check, +3 modifier to fire
        4 - Crew killed

Engine hits Effect
        1 - FUSION - can only move OR fire weapons  ICE - unit immobile
        2 - FUSION - unit immobile                  ICE - Fuel explosion/unit destroyed/crew killed
        3 - FUSION - unit destroyed/crew killed

The vehicle check table would be required for all vehicles and would be used on a roll of 4 or 5.  Crew hits work like consciousness checks for 'mechs, but there is a modifier for firing weapons that go up each hit.  The only change I might make is bumping it up to 4 (reason for 2nd chart).  This is much easier to track than a stunned crew or some of the other effects that float for a few turns.  Also, the meta improves for considering Fusion engines over ICE engines.  They can take an extra hit.
« Last Edit: 11 July 2018, 23:34:58 by Fear Factory »
The conflict is pure - The truth devised - The future secured - The enemy designed
Maj. Isaac "Litany" Van Houten, Lone Wolves, The Former 66th "Litany Against Fear" Company

Fear Factory

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Re: New rules for modifiers
« Reply #75 on: 27 July 2018, 22:17:34 »
Here is another option for vehicles.  The idea here is to make things less complicated and remove stacking effects.  These are based on the rules in Total Warfare:

Vehicles:

- No more skidding!  Vehicles are not required to perform driving skill checks while cruising.  While flanking, instead of skidding, perform a driving skill check and the failure results in a motive system damage check with a -3 modifier.
- Remove the following critical hits:

       - driver hit, the effect is almost identical to a commander hit, see below
       - stabilizer, why have this when having a stuck turret is enough?  It's another thing to track.
       - weapon malfunction, it's like the crew stun mechanic for weapons...  ANOTHER thing to track.
       - crew stun mechanic, easy to mess up.  Tracking stun per turns is silly when a consciousness check is easier.

- For crew stun, remove this mechanic and add a consciousness table to the crew data section of the record sheet (the same one on fighter and 'mech record sheets).  The consciousness table is the same one that 'Mechs and Fighters use.  This is so much easier to do, and less to figure out, because it already is part of the game.
- 'Mechs performing physical attacks against vehicles cause double damage.  This is inspired from the video game.

New Ground Combat Vehicle Critical Hit Tables

Code: [Select]
Roll      Front/Side/Rear               Effect
2         Fuel Tank/engine              Unit destroyed if ICE, engine hit if fusion
3         Ammunition/Weapon Destroyed   Ammo explosion, weapon destroyed if no ammo
4         Engine Hit                    Unit immobile, cannot fire energy weapons
5         Cargo/Infantry                Cargo destroyed and infantry take weapon damage, re-roll if none
6         Weapon Destroyed              A weapon is destroyed, determine randomly     
7         No critical hit               No effect
8         No critical hit               No effect
9         Crew Stunned                  Crew took damage, follow the Consciousness check table
10        Sensors                       +1 modifier to fire per hit, unit can't fire weapons on 4th hit
11        Commander Killed              +1 to gunnery and piloting rolls, also counts as crew stunned
12        Crew Killed                   Crew is killed so the unit is destroyed

Code: [Select]
Roll      Turret
2         Turret locked                 Turret stuck in position for the game
3         Ammunition/Weapon Destroyed   Ammo explosion, weapon destroyed if no ammo
4         Crew Stunned                  Crew took damage, follow the Consciousness check table
5         Turret Jammed                 Turret stuck in position, can do a piloting check to unjam in the next attack phase
6         Weapon Destroyed              A weapon is destroyed
7         No critical hit               No effect
8         No critical hit               No effect
9         Turret Jammed                 Turret stuck in position, can do a piloting check to unjam in the next attack phase
10        Sensors                       +1 modifier to fire per hit, unit can't fire weapons on 4th hit
11        Turret Locked                 Turret stuck in position for the rest of the game
12        Turret blown off              Turret destroyed

EDIT:  Also, forgot the hit charts:

Code: [Select]
New Ground Combat Vehicle Hit Location Charts

Roll      Front/Rear          Sides
2         Front (Critical)    Side (Critical)
3         Front +             Side +
4         Front +             Side +
5         Front               Front +
6         Right Side +        Side
7         Front               Side
8         Left Side +         Side (Critical)
9         Front               Rear +
10        Turret              Turret
11        Turret              Turret
12        Turret (Critical)   Turret (Critical)

+ Motive Checks

Only 2 charts needed.  In the front arc, swap the "Side 5,9" and "Front 6,8" results in order to spread damage a bit more and make vehicles a little more vulnerable to motive hits.
« Last Edit: 28 July 2018, 11:28:37 by Fear Factory »
The conflict is pure - The truth devised - The future secured - The enemy designed
Maj. Isaac "Litany" Van Houten, Lone Wolves, The Former 66th "Litany Against Fear" Company

Fear Factory

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Re: New rules for modifiers
« Reply #76 on: 31 July 2018, 16:07:34 »
Here's a PDF with a lot of the ideas we have.  A lot of it is stuff I used to do, or wanted to do, that I incorporated into this.  Stuff like handling buildings, very basic infantry construction, most of it we already talked about here.  None of this is final, but it's all house rules, so you can do whatever you want.

This feels the best so far:

- Alpha Strike/PC game inspired movement
- Aerotech 2 ranges with a max range cap
- Terrain meta (Woods, water, and partial cover)
- Hit chart changes (rear torso in side arcs)
- A lot of the weapon meta (specifically autocannon damage buffs, hatchets/clubs forcing PSR)
The conflict is pure - The truth devised - The future secured - The enemy designed
Maj. Isaac "Litany" Van Houten, Lone Wolves, The Former 66th "Litany Against Fear" Company

Vandervecken

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Re: New rules for modifiers
« Reply #77 on: 09 August 2018, 22:28:33 »
idea:
Eliminate the cluster table and replace it with a fixed number (per cluster size) where the amount of pieces that hit are based on how much you beat the target number by.
Removes one die roll and stays logical - the more you beat your die roll by, the more missiles hit.
You can give them a bonus to hit to compensate and make the math work out.
This would also keep them interesting and different alternatives to direct fire weapons.
« Last Edit: 09 August 2018, 22:32:34 by Vandervecken »

Vandervecken

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Re: New rules for modifiers
« Reply #78 on: 09 August 2018, 22:39:01 »
Another idea:
Allow players to slave direct-fire weapons together if they are the same weapon type firing into the same arc. Weapons hit or miss together, and hit the same location. Aim is to reduce die=rolling and increase realism.

Issue: How to make sure that my 4 slaved medium lasers are somehow distinct from your AC/20.
Or maybe it's already balanced?
Let's see: 4 medium lasers + associated HS = 16 tons, while an AC/20 + 2 tons ammo = 21 tons, so maybe not.

Maybe there's inspiration from the Mechwarrior games that we can use?
What distinguishes an AC/20 from 4 MLs in Mechwarrior Online?

Vandervecken

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Re: New rules for modifiers
« Reply #79 on: 09 August 2018, 22:56:57 »
Third idea:
A lot of people have played around with the idea that cluster weapons hit a particular location and spread damage to nearby locations. Is that something that could potentially speed play?

At the very least we should make LBX autocannons clump damage into 5 point groups like missiles no?

abou

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Re: New rules for modifiers
« Reply #80 on: 10 August 2018, 07:42:02 »
Those are all points I have read and I have thought about them. In fact the grouping rule is one thing I did mess around with when I was younger (actually misreading the rules) and I'll let you know why I came to the decisions I did. By all means, Vandervecken, if you find this stuff works for you do try it and let us know.

1st idea: the cluster hits table is actually very, very powerful in the meta of the game. Yes it means more die rolls, which for some can be a bit of a turn off. However, the damage it can do is extraordinary. A Commando can really wreck your day because of how many times damage is rolled. That means the possibility of hitting the head, rolling a 2 for a floating crit or just a torso crit, or finding a location stripped of armor increase each round. That's really part of the BattleTech meta and can end a unit on the table faster than straight destruction -- or force a unit to retreat.

And I think that is my main argument: it really has a very direct impact on the game the way it is. An LB-X cannon by advanced players is often used with cluster ammo over slug ammo for that very reason.  I've taken out a lot of relatively fresh 'mechs with gyro hits. And the accumulation of head hits can lead to pilots being knocked out -- or a floating critical to the head can take out the cockpit. Not that that has ever happened to me... ever...

*glares at FearFactory*


2nd. Maximum Tech has a rule for grouping weapons. It may have showed up earlier in Tactical Handbook, but I can't remember. I had used those rules incorrectly and played the way you suggested, but you already noticed the problem. However, the original rules actually work like this:

- Weapons can be grouped together however you want
- The roll to-hit is based off of the weapon that would generate the highest to-hit factoring in range or minimum range (that would encourage grouping weapons of the same type)
- Hit location roles are rolled normally. So a grouping of four medium lasers may score a hit, but each laser's location is rolled individually

This may speed up the game or it may not. If you have a run of bad rolls, you've may have only sped up that specific round of game play rather than the game as a whole. Grouping, I think, also favors elite pilots as those pilots are less likely to miss what becomes an all-or-nothing firing phase.

3rd: See my response above. I recognize it can speed up the game, but with BattleTech's effects in regards to critical hits, I think it is more powerful than recognized. But I just don't think I have seen an effective enough alternative to cluster hits that doesn't end up using its own table.

Vandervecken

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Re: New rules for modifiers
« Reply #81 on: 10 August 2018, 11:10:33 »
Great points re: 1 and 3. I guess the Box of Dice it is.

Re 2: how does MWO balance AC/20 vs 4 Medium Lasers? Maybe there are pointers there. Because I'm pretty sure you can group weapons and have them all hit the same spot.

Fear Factory

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Re: New rules for modifiers
« Reply #82 on: 10 August 2018, 11:43:00 »
You can't group weapons and hit the same spot.  The AC20 has concentrated damage, whereas 4 medium lasers have to each roll to hit then spread to different locations.
The conflict is pure - The truth devised - The future secured - The enemy designed
Maj. Isaac "Litany" Van Houten, Lone Wolves, The Former 66th "Litany Against Fear" Company

abou

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Re: New rules for modifiers
« Reply #83 on: 10 August 2018, 11:53:13 »
Great points re: 1 and 3. I guess the Box of Dice it is.

Re 2: how does MWO balance AC/20 vs 4 Medium Lasers? Maybe there are pointers there. Because I'm pretty sure you can group weapons and have them all hit the same spot.
I actually don't know. I don't play MWO. My guess would be balancing heat and damage differently. I know MWO uses a "ghost heat" mechanic when it comes to laser boats.

Fear Factory

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Re: New rules for modifiers
« Reply #84 on: 10 August 2018, 12:58:53 »
I really don't want to go down the rabbit hole that is MWO game balance (which is pretty damn bad).  BattleTech doesn't suffer from mass energy weapons fire hitting a single location, and any rules that support this would undoubtedly unbalance the game.
The conflict is pure - The truth devised - The future secured - The enemy designed
Maj. Isaac "Litany" Van Houten, Lone Wolves, The Former 66th "Litany Against Fear" Company

Fear Factory

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Re: New rules for modifiers
« Reply #85 on: 18 August 2018, 23:55:02 »
I have an idea for expanding piloting skills a bit. It's inspired from the PC game. A little more to track but it could make things interesting:

Base MechWarrior stats:

IS

Gunnery: 4
Piloting: 5
Guts: 5
Tactics: 4

Clan

Gunnery: 3
Piloting: 4
Guts: 5
Tactics: 5

Here's how it works.

Gunnery

Used for ranged attacks. No changes, except for indirect fire and called shots (see tactics)

Piloting

Used for all piloting rolls and physical attacks. No changes.

Guts

Used for consciousness checks and willpower for shutdown overrides. The charts would look like this:

Hits taken: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
Target Number: -2, +0, +2, +5, +6, dead

If you have a guts rating of 5, your chart would be the normal chart (3, 5, 7, 10, 11, dead). As the number lowers, it is harder to knock out the pilot, but they still take damage normally.

Shutdown overrides: 4+, 6+, 8+, 10+
Target Number: -1, +1, +3, +5

Like consciousness, a guts rating of 5 means you have the normal chart.  The lower the rating, the better the pilot can avoid a shutdown. Again, they still suffer damage normally from heat.

Tactics

This ability assists with called shots and designating targets (indirect fire).

For indirect fire, use the tactics skill as the base to hit.

For called shots, same thing. Base to hit is the tactics skill.
« Last Edit: 19 August 2018, 22:52:54 by Fear Factory »
The conflict is pure - The truth devised - The future secured - The enemy designed
Maj. Isaac "Litany" Van Houten, Lone Wolves, The Former 66th "Litany Against Fear" Company

abou

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Re: New rules for modifiers
« Reply #86 on: 04 November 2018, 19:10:37 »
Been a long while since we last played. Finally broke out the dice again this morning. I had been thinking about our autocannons and Dan agreed with me on this front.

My goal with ACs is to not make them super powerful, but to make them viable. So the question is how do you make them effective in regards to their nearest competitors. To that end, we upped the damage of the class 2 and 5 again.

So now an AC/2 does 4 damage, which gives them more consistent output compared to the LRM-5. Now with longer range and our range brackets I think they are serious threats to lighter mechs at distance. Even more so with SPAs like range master. I would also give them a -1 bonus for flying targets. I recognize though that compared to the LRM-10 it is a bit if a wash, but it is more heat efficient.

For the AC/5, we would bump it another point to 8. So now it has this spot between the large laser and PPC. In fact, once you get past the 10 base engine heat sinks, it is less tonnage to mount an AC/5 than a large laser factoring in additional heat sinks.

We put these ideas to the test in a new scenario that pitted an elite Jagermech pilot on a mountain against three light mechs. It was certainly an interesting fight. I think in a stand-up battle with proper screening elements, the Blackjack, Jagermech, and Rifleman would now be very effective snipers. The Blackjack in particular would probably fare well against 'mechs of comparable or less weight being able to fire multiple times while the opponent closed. In fact, there would be little reason to not fire as long as there was line of sight due to the amount of ammunition.

Fear Factory

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Re: New rules for modifiers
« Reply #87 on: 11 November 2018, 15:50:48 »
Repeating a bit of what Abou said, here...

I know that there has been a lot of threads talking about Autocannons. After increasing their damage and play testing it, I'd say that it is necessary. When we play it just feels right. I know in MegaMek there is even an option to increase damage for class 2 and 5 cannons.

Autocannon 2 - Increase damage to 4
Autocannon 5 - Increase damage to 8
Autocannon 10 - Increase damage to 12
Autocannon 20 - Increase damage to 24

The only exception to this damage increase would be for LB-X cannons. Standard ammo would get the increase, but cluster rounds would do damage equal to the class.

Autocannons really, really, deserve this. Even when you get into Clan designs, those light Autocannon carriers start to make some sense. All of a sudden that Mist Lynx with the Ultra Autocannon 2 is a threat.

These are also rules I would say we're both comfortable with:

- Flat weapon ranges, like that of Aerotech 2.
- Alpha Strike inspired movement. However, the ONLY thing I have been considering is keeping movement like that of Classic, where you still have to count all hexes and account for facing changes, but you get he full TMM for the movement mode. So you can still walk/run/jump and fire, and physicals like Charging won't get a boost.
- Changing the 7 result on the 2 cluster chart to 2 missiles instead of 1.
- Adding rear torso location hits on the right/left arcs.

I think we got a lot of the 'Mech stuff figured out. Vehicles and Infantry are still a toss up. I'm still a fan of the older rules because of how less complicated they were. I still think removing multi turn effects and making them more squishy is a good idea, but we'll see.
« Last Edit: 12 November 2018, 10:55:56 by Fear Factory »
The conflict is pure - The truth devised - The future secured - The enemy designed
Maj. Isaac "Litany" Van Houten, Lone Wolves, The Former 66th "Litany Against Fear" Company

Fear Factory

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Re: New rules for modifiers
« Reply #88 on: 14 December 2018, 09:24:13 »
Removing skidding from the game means that the Driving Skill for Vehicles does nothing... I've revisited some of my old ideas regarding how vehicles are handled.

I've attached a PDF of some modified hit charts. My goal here is to remove multi-turn effects that you have to track, which in my experience, over-complicates the game. This allowed me to combine all critical hits on ONE table and essentially make vehicles much easier/faster to handle. I have also removed the table for motive hits and made them static on the hit table, meaning (for example) if you roll a 6 in the side arc, your hovercraft is going to suffer a motive hit. With the removal of a motive hit chart, and simplification of the critical hit tables, I also added a consciousness table to vehicles. This makes them work just like the other ground units in the game which makes them much easier to use. If you take a crew hit you mark it off and roll to avoid going unconsciousness, just like 'Mechs and Fighters. Each hit also applies a modifier to fire which is there to replace other vehicle effects like fire control or stabilizer hits that just complicate the game.

My main reason for revisiting the simplification of Vehicle rules was because of an idea Abou tossed out regarding motive hits/turret locks. Instead of using the driving skill for skidding, a modified Driving Skill roll is used to attempt to override the effect. In this case, everything under motive damage effects. The modifier for the roll is the opposite of the modifier of the effect. So if you suffer a -2 MP hit, it would be driving skill +2 to avoid it. If you beat it you override the hit. If you fail, the hit is permanent. The easiest one to avoid would be turret locked which would be a +0 mod.

Another reason I've revisited this was because I wanted to make vehicles a little more squishy... but not to a point where it is unfair or unfun to play them. So I made Vehicles more vulnerable depending on what arc you attack them in. The front arc has a -1 mod for critical hit rolls meaning you can't insta-kill them, and it's a lot harder to get motive hits. The side arcs are more vulnerable to motive hits, more so for hovercraft, and more vulnerable to critical hits. The rear arc is more vulnerable to critical hits than all the arcs, but the same for MP hits as the front. With arcs handled like this, maneuvering is key to their survival. I think this system is a lot easier, and is a happy alternative to the current rule set for people who want to have vehicles supplement their games without having to track a bunch of multi-turn effects.

It's a lot to explain and I know I'm not good at explaining things, but if you look at the charts you can see how it's all in one place and seems to flow a lot better than the current system. I plan on play testing this, so this may or may not be changed.

EDIT: I notice I screwed up on the VTOL table... changed the file.
« Last Edit: 15 December 2018, 12:29:59 by Fear Factory »
The conflict is pure - The truth devised - The future secured - The enemy designed
Maj. Isaac "Litany" Van Houten, Lone Wolves, The Former 66th "Litany Against Fear" Company

idea weenie

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Re: New rules for modifiers
« Reply #89 on: 15 December 2018, 15:18:24 »
I know that there has been a lot of threads talking about Autocannons. After increasing their damage and play testing it, I'd say that it is necessary. When we play it just feels right. I know in MegaMek there is even an option to increase damage for class 2 and 5 cannons.

Autocannon 2 - Increase damage to 4
Autocannon 5 - Increase damage to 8
Autocannon 10 - Increase damage to 12
Autocannon 20 - Increase damage to 24

How about using Solaris 7 rules that allow for firing AC faster, but for the battlefield you roll on the cluster chart.  So an AC/2 can fire up to 4 times per turn, and the player chooses to fire all 4.  The player rolls on the '4' column of the cluster chart, to see how many hit (4 rounds of ammo are used up).  The AC/5 can fire up to 2 (or 3?) times per turn, and the player chooses to fire only 2 times.  The player marks off 2 shots of AC/5 ammo, and rolls on the '2' column.

Rolling above the to-hit would give a bonus on the cluster chart (half?).  Would allowing for harder to-hits for guaranteed damage be a good idea (i.e. the to-hit is '2', and the player takes a 1 pt penalty (increasing the to-hit to '2') for a guarantee that one of the shots will hit.  The Mech is firing an AC/2 at max rate (4 shots per turn), so with 1 shot already a guaranteed hit, they would roll on the '3' column (4 total shots minus 1 guaranteed hit = '3' on the cluster chart).  But the player instead rolls a '2', meaning none of the shots hit, and the autocannon jams.  (I got this idea from Legend of the Five Rings, where you can choose to make your to-hit harder in exchange for a better result.  But if you miss the harder to-hit you miss completely, instead of being safe at the lower original to-hit)

Ultra weaponry would merely give a bonus on the cluster chart, to reflect that it is designed to reliably fire faster to begin with.

RAC would allow for much faster firing, effectively landing 2 shots instead of 1 (and using up 2 round of ammo).  So a RAC/5 firing at full rate would use the '3' column, but the number of hits listed is doubled.  It doesn't get the Ultra cluster benefit, as it is designed for more shells, rather than more accurate shells.

So yes, RAC/2 could have up to 8 shots landing on a target.  (If it fires at max rate, the controller marks off 8 shots from its ammo, and rolls to-hit.  If it hits, it rolls on the '4' column of the cluster chart, and if all 4 hit, the target has a total of 8 hits of 2 dmg each).  If spreading the damage, each location takes 2 hits of 2 damage each.

All autocannons can jam, but all would use the RAC rules for unjamming.