Bondsmen of bondsmen (ad infinitum)

[epic]

A question piqued my interest today.

What happens to the bondsmen of a bondsman? 

Example:  Warrior Ralph of Clan Hell's Horses is captured and claimed as a bondsman for Clan Wolf by Warrior Joe. 

However, 2 months later, Warrior Joe is captured by Warrior Evan of Clan Ghost Bear during a Trial of Possession.  For the sake of simplicity, some of Joe's stuff is also captured for isorla, including Bondsman Ralph.

Would Clan Ghost Bear allow Joe to keep Ralph?  Would Ralph perhaps be Ransom'd back to their original Clan?  Would Warrior Evan have 2 bondsmen now? 

[Elmoth]

the slave of my slave is my slave? So 2 bondsmen for Evan?

[Colt Ward]

Part of what prevents this is bondsmen are not taken willy-nilly (except Harvest Trials).  You have to do something outstanding in the fight . . . like taking a Kit Fox Prime and nearly beating a Dire Wolf in a long range sniping duel.

1st you are given credit for balls- likely the Dire Wolf would refuse that duel since it could be a insulting match.  If it was like a Kit Fox, Nova and Hellbringer, and the other two dropped like chumps but the Kit Fox fought smartly and was a single hit from victory, its still a accomplishment for the Kit Fox pilot.

2nd to even have a chance to pull that off you have to be good (G/P skills, SPA, edge whatever) . . . though I will grant edge (reroll that Gauss hit location!) could make things interesting.

3rd the Clan/warrior has to be in the mood/mindset to take a bondsmen.  Jaguars (after BoK) might take a freebirth bondsman (see Horse) but will not let them become a warrior.  Vipers (after BoK) do not seem inclined to take one, superiority complex.  Dirk Radick, and to a lesser extent his cluster, were killing freebirths when facing other Clans or even in the Wolf touman.  Warden Wolves will take Falcon & Jaguar bondsmen, but its questionable if the Falcons would.  I am not sure the Crusader Wolves would take a Warden Wolf bondsmen or vice versa- which does not even get into the later bloodname/house problems.

[epic]

Yup, agreed that they aren't willy-nilly.  The point still stands though that what happens should all parties distinguish themselves?  Sure, Joe distinguished himself against Evan, but Ralph didn't even get a chance to show his worth (other than his Codex) as he was already a bondsman.

Assuming we leave aside Clan differences (make all Clan names generic) and that all parties are Trueborn, still wondering what happens to Ralph in this situation. 

[Frabby]

Agree. Evan has taken both Joe and Ralph as isorla, and may keep either or both as bondsman. Bondsman is just a special status for isorla personnel. Your pet doesn't get to keep its pet for himself.
I reckon Evan could technically even allow Joe to keep Ralph as a bondsman. But as I see it Joe has no say in the matter.

[Colt Ward]

I think the bondsmen revert to the Clan.  If you look a few of the times we hear for a capture of a warrior to make him a bondsmen, its done 'for the Clan' as an act that strengthens its abilities.  Also, since the Khan can ultimately (as in Phelan/Ulric) lay claim to a bondsmen, then I would think he becomes the responsibility of Warrior Joe's boss.

[RifleMech]

Why would a mechwarrior's bondsman be in combat to be taken as Isorla? Also if one is taken as isorla one no longer owns anything so how could one still have a bondsman? 

I think the bondsman would revert to the clan.  It's not like his personal possessions will be shipped to his new "owner". Only he was captured not his belongings.

[epic]

If the world or enclave is taken in a Trial of Possession, it would mean that whatever is left in the enclave could be isorla... which would be where the bondsman would be, most likely.

[Kit deSummersville]

Bondsmen don't get to keep anything, so Joe loses his bondsman. Ralph's the same as any lower caste citizen if he's captured or is just part of Clan Hells Horses if he's not captured.

[RifleMech]

If the world or enclave is taken in a Trial of Possession, it would mean that whatever is left in the enclave could be isorla... which would be where the bondsman would 4be, most likely.

In that case the bondsman would be part of the prize.  They still wouldn't be out in combat with their owner to be taken as isorla.

[Kit deSummersville]

Vlad took Phelan as his Bondsman but Phelan's stuff, mainly what was left of Grinner, wasn't Vlad's, it was Clan Wolf's.

[Colt Ward]

Not quite . . . Vlad kept the buckle.

But its something that was on him at the time he was taken.