Customized Vehicles/Mechs...

[CanRay]

OK, we're starting to get the Smoking Guns operational, and am working slowly towards setting up our operational systems...

So, I'd like to ask, for those playing a Merc Game (Or one where a military unit is trying to handle the issues of logistics and all the problems therein), what have you done with your vehicles and 'mechs?

[Maelwys]

Logistics in BT has always seemed like a impossibility, given the fact that everything seems to be different. Or atleast a really big hassle.

Most of the time for customs I go pretty low key. Moving a weapon or two around, nothing too major.

[guardiandashi]

it depends on the level of "detail" nitpicking you are willing to put up with

you can track parts and supplies at lrm 5, 10, 15, 20 launcher, and lrm ammo  or go holly lrm blah doombud lrm 20, holly lrms 2 tons doombud lrm ammo 10 tons etc

personally if you aren't tracking manufacturer level componants then I do not see a reason to track lrm 5 ammo seperately from lrm 20 ammo .... until it goes into the unit aka this mech has 2 lrm 5's and 1 lrm 20 so it has .... lrm ammo

[CanRay]

OK, thanks for your statements.  I've just tried to learn from the old saying, "Amateurs study tactics, professionals study logistics".  That, and trying to figure out how to properly set up an unsupported Merc Company has my head itching.  (I haven't done this for over ten years, and that was in the Star Wars Universe, with a complete small fleet and marine unit!).

In other news, here's my ugly mech, just because:

[Hellraiser]

what have you done with your vehicles and 'mechs?

Back in the L1 days Joe Mechwarrior didn't get to do much.  Senior officers got some customization.
Mostly we'd just look at taking the "best" of the house models.  Pixie-D,  Banshee-S,  Wolvie-M, etc etc.

When it comes to the L2 upgrades I shoot for canon models go the "Refit Kit" route to a canon configuration.  This is especially true if the Refit is Class-D or less & can be done w/o a factory.
If the only canon refit is Class E+ then I look at a Class-D or less customization.

For instance.

In 3050 the Stalker-5M is a great Class-D refit from any earlier model Stalker.

Meanwhile the only new Thunderbolts all involved factory modifications.
So in that case I'd look at something custom.

[Orion]

I generally assume SRM and LRM ammo is the same within manufacturer, but often different between manufacturers.  So, default is that Holly 5 and Holly 10 LRM use the same exact ammo, but that the Doombud LRM ammo is different unless I specifically decide they are manufacturing the same thing.  AC ammo is almost always separated both by damage and manufacturer.  I use a spreadsheet to track the ammo and parts inventory, and include when it was gained, how it was gained, and when it was used.  Yes, it takes effort, but makes the campaign much more enjoyable for me.

Actuators, limbs, cockpits, etc.  are generally specific to the mech type.  A Whitworth and Phoenix Hawk shoulder may weigh and cost the same, but are not interchangeable.  Myomer fibers and armor sheeting interchangeable.  Replacing components and weapons with those from another manufacturer is rare, because the on-board computer has to be reprogrammed, and not everyone can do that.  Just as important, even if the components weigh the same, they might be of different dimensions, and so can't be swapped out without a significant rebuild of the chassis.

I rarely use anything but standard designs.  Real reason - customizing holds little interest to me or the friends I play with.  In-universe reason - their techs are not good enough for major changes, and/or the pilots are happy with the standard design.  If there is a customization, it is virtually always because they can't acquire the proper weapons, and must plug something of lesser value into the hole until they do.  So, if a Cicada 3c loses its PPC, it might run around for a while with a large laser.  And they aren't going to upgrade the armor or something else to maintain weight - it just run a little light, and maybe I'll let them run 2km/hr faster when going all out.  Forget customizing the mech - they just want to get the whole thing in working order!

[CanRay]

Logistics headaches are all the more reason to enjoy Lasers.   ;D

[Frabby]

As GM, I created a quite elaborate system for custom modifications. I don't have the documents anymore, but it was something along the lines of requiring two rolls:
One for planning/designing the refit; difficulty was determined by the kind of change. Exchanging one 1-crit energy weapon for another 1-crit energy weapon was almost trivial, changing the reactor (engine rating) was almost impossible. A failed roll would result in a suboptimal refit that would result in unallocated tonnage if carried out; a botched roll meant the tech had no clue how to make the desired modification work. Sometimes, existing plans for field refits could be bought to save the group this roll.
The second roll was the actual welding, plumbing and general screwing. Depending on the difficulty of the modification as defined by its extent and the first roll result, it could result in all kinds of quirks and damage (weapons prone to jamming or with to-hit modifier, extra heat, spare parts/components damaged during installation, permanent loss of internal structure points, etc.).

We had exactly one customized 'Mech that didn't suffer from any quirks - a PXH-1 that had its MGs exchanged for flamers. All other field modifications or repairs using "wrong" spares (2 LRM-5 instead of 1 LRM-10) had some sort of drawback.

[Hellraiser]

Logistics headaches are all the more reason to enjoy Lasers.   ;D

Meh, in that case this Magna-II will not replace your Martell Medium Laser when its destroyed.
Logistics gets everyone.  Forget ammo, mechs need lubricant just to keep moving even with that lovely fusion engine.  People need to eat.  There will always be Logistics around.  Best to just simplify things w/o getting too specific & accept that your going to have a big supply train even in the best of circumstances.

[BirdofPrey]

I think that sort of detail is going a bit overboard, but even in that case, I would say that the techs could machine a couple brackets to make the weapon fit in somewhere.

When it comes to modifications, bear in mind that in addition to requiring access to a factory, class E and F would entail major structural changes that would necessitate a team of engineers actually partially redesigning the mech.  Complete loadout replacements would probably also require some technical oversight to make sure the design is still sound.  CASE might be an exception.  That puts those out of reach of most mercenary groups. 

For everyone else, you are going to be limited to equipment swaps  Swapping equipment in a maintenance bay as needed while hopefully retaining the center of gravity of the mech lets you do plenty of things, and would still be well inside the capabilities of any merc command with access to mech gantries.  That covers nearly every command since most contracts will find you based out of a dropship or a dedicated mech hangar.

As far as what I do, it usually amounts to swapping laser type and trading some ACs out for LACs and LBX ACs (class A) and installing certain electronics.


If its the individual players, they should probably be able to justify any changes (eg. our unit had a ton of spare large lasers, so we swapped the broken AC-2s for large lasers and added a couple of heat sinks).


THhis is all assuming its an RP campaign.  If it's not an RP campaign, then I'd say anything goes, though you might still penalize factory level refits.

[guardiandashi]

well I will say I do like the new refit rules in most cases, aka the increased granularity of "levels" of refits.

what I don't necesarally like is the removal of the "refit kits" option that was in mercs handbook 3055 implied by the new rules.

I will give an example of what I mean lets say you have a pxh-1 phoenix hawk and you want to refit it into a pxh-3M aka the one in the 3050 tro changes are std to endosteel frame, xl engine, massive weapons changes ... etc

the mercs handbook explicitly said you could order a factory refit kit that included EVERYTHING needed to do the refit parts, manuals, replacement chips, and or program updates etc.

the only things that weren't included per say would be the tool kits a lift platform etc but if you paid extra you could hire a factory rep team to DO the work also.

see the new refit rules if taken at face value essentually say you CAN'T do what the older book explicitly said was done.

[Hellraiser]

Sure you can,  it even mentions the difference between a Refit Kit & a Customization.

The only difference is that before the levels were based on how many repair gantries were needed (1-2-3) v/s now its if you need a single truck, a bay, or a factory.

You can still order that Pixie-3M upgrade, you just have 2 options, do it in their factory or do it in another mech factory with parts from the 3M kit.

For Example:
I can order Vulcan-5M refit kits (assuming FWL sells them) to upgrade my Vulcan-5T, and do them while I'm on garrison on Oliver at the Crusader Factory that I'm under contract to protect.