Close combat, is this where most mech fights end up?

[Fnord]

In my group we are seeing a lot of close combat, in fact, in almost every game we play there will at least be a bit of kicking. Close combat seem to be deal quite a respectable amount of damage, in particular if you can get in behind the enemy mech, so that it can't hit you back. Kicking in particular seem to be quite powerful, as it is rather easy to hit, and standing bellow a hill seem to be an invitation for a "kick in the face" (which quite often is fatal). Is this a sign of my groups inexperience with the game, or is it how games usually end up?

[mutantmagnet]

It's how battletech games remain a social experience. Playing the long range game is frowned upon because it eats up time and patience.

Until you effectively learn how to use certain spotting equipment like C3 and TAG you'll be fighting at close ranges for awhile.

Map choices also influence typical engagement ranges.

[House Davie Merc]

3025 era -Most of our games wind up there sooner or later .
Especially if random tables are used and someone gets a mech
with poor firepower .

3050 +   -Tends to be the opposite for most of the games
I've been in .Only specialists like Axe wielders or 3Xmyomer users
try to close .To many long range weapons that cause fatal
damage are floating around .
The exceptions being those that are using level 1 /3025 tech against
the Clanners  and when the terrain limits range . (Like cities )

[Wanderer]

People always asked me in 3025-era games why I'd love Archers, with their low amount of close-in firepower.

I always found a 70-tonner boot to the leg was more than enough to keep people respectable, since I usually out-armored most opponents in my weight class anyway. Plus, it was frequently enough to knock them down, which meant I could back up and resume hosing them with LRMs if so desired, or kick em while they're down!

Physical attacks are part and parcel of a 'Mech, and a reason why any pilot should be cautious about getting too close. Most 'Mechs lose their last "big gun" only when they can't kick or punch, and the DFA/charge is often the final resort of a machine that's about to die.

[Ian Sharpe]

The kick is a fantastic weapon, since a successful one means a PSR regardless of the amount of damage.  But in 3025 things go to close range because many mechs don't have a lot of ammo for large LRM racks, and ML batteries can come into play, along with SRMs for crits and infernoes.  In later eras, pulse weapons, ER weapons, LBX and other options mean that closing range isn't always as necessary. 

[Atlas3060]

Mostly the lighter 'mechs seem to kick in our group, just to see if they can make the big boys wobble before running away.

[Stormfury]

In the 3025 era, the short ranges on most weapons and generally high to-hit numbers caused by those range brackets encourage you to close in unless you have Elite 'MechWarriors. Once you're in the 3-5 hex range, you might as well go all out, try to circle around behind your opponent, tuck in close, and so on.

In the 3050+ era, weapons ranges are longer and you can fit more of them (or use more of them) due to mass-lightening gear such as Endo Steel, Ferro-Fibrous, and Double Heat Sinks. This encourages you to stay at range, especially if you have Clan or more skilled pilots.

[Lyran Archer]

People always asked me in 3025-era games why I'd love Archers, with their low amount of close-in firepower.

I always found a 70-tonner boot to the leg was more than enough to keep people respectable, since I usually out-armored most opponents in my weight class anyway. Plus, it was frequently enough to knock them down, which meant I could back up and resume hosing them with LRMs if so desired, or kick em while they're down!

Physical attacks are part and parcel of a 'Mech, and a reason why any pilot should be cautious about getting too close.

Yeah, a fellow Archer lover! Oh yeah, I like to keep my enemies at long range but when they do get under my LRM minimum range my Archers attack kicking and screaming. The 14-damage kick helps to make up for the poorer short-range firepower of most Archers.

[I am Belch II]

I would like to keep it the further the better. But sometimes you get mad becuase your to hit rolls are in the double digits.

[LastChanceCav]

If your only playing on a couple of map boards the game will invariably devolve into close combat as there really isn't room to maneuver. Only when you use a bigger playing field can mobility and long range guns be used to their potential.

Cheers,
LCC

[Fnord]

We're mainly using <3039 mechs in our games, so that might be the cause, along with only using two maps. It will be interesting to see how my group reacts to larger maps, more mechs & better tech (if they still try to get up close and personal, even when things change).
 The reason why I created this thread was because games got a bit on the predictable side (although hitting someone with a death from above with a 70 ton grasshopper is quite satisfying).

[Fat Guy]

Playing on only two maps, even 'Mechs with 3/5 movement will be in physical combat before you know it. Heck, the opposing Urbies will be trading kicks fairly early!

[black magic battalion]

Mostly the lighter 'mechs seem to kick in our group, just to see if they can make the big boys wobble before running away.

when i play i dont kick with my light Mechs anymore because there is nothing more frustrating than having a light Mech miss its kick, Fall over and the turn after being at the mercy of its intended, and now angry, target

[mensa12345]

Most fights devolve into close range slugfests mostly because battletech is a game, not a simulation.  When you're playing it more as a campaign (with repair rules and something like a real scarcity of parts and replacements), you get a lot less jumpy about close range fighting. 

[RGCavScout]

Campaign-style play are a definite game-changer; but I have to say that the size of the battlefield is also a huge factor.  Another way to keep some fights from degenerating to a melee is to use scenarios with objetives beyond simply pounding one another to scrap metal with some squishy bits. 

[StCptMara]

Most fights devolve into close range slugfests mostly because battletech is a game, not a simulation.  When you're playing it more as a campaign (with repair rules and something like a real scarcity of parts and replacements), you get a lot less jumpy about close range fighting.

See..this has never been my experience. I have always seen my players go MORE aggressive in Campaign play, to finish the fights
quickly, so they do not have to have as much repairs, and, if they can take out that enemy mech with more of it
intact, then salvage is a bonus.

[markhall]

Generally people close because the shoots are easier at shorter range. And it makes sense to go for the easy shots unless you are an ac 2 carrier.

And its a good way to use fast lights and mediums. Getting a little extra damage and the chance of a fall over roll with a kick.
Or a headslap with a punch is always welcome.
It can turn smaller mechs with two arms into very credible threats


Here you can see 3 Panthers mug a T-bolt while firing at the Enforcer. 
What's not to like about the extra 21 pionts of damage being dished out.

[Challenger]

I tend to dive into close combat (if I feel I have the advantage) because its decisive and quick.  If I want someone off an objective, getting right in their face is the only way to do it promptly.  Left to my own devices my mechs would indeed have bayonets fitted.   }:)

Skirmishing at range has its uses, but its sloooooow and can quite easily achieve nothing. 

Challenger

[I am Belch II]

A lot of the newer player just believe in the "Charge" fight, get as close, and Alpha Strike everything. A lot of tatics and strategy is not really there. In a open field, or terrain like that, no battle should be like that.

[Atlas3060]

when i play i dont kick with my light Mechs anymore because there is nothing more frustrating than having a light Mech miss its kick, Fall over and the turn after being at the mercy of its intended, and now angry, target

Light Mechs have the MP to get up and put distance/movement mods on them.  If I drop my chunky Atlas rear on the ground the best I can do is get up and scream "Come at me bro".  A Locust could fall, get up, and run away screaming "You remember nothing!"

[StCptMara]

A lot of the newer player just believe in the "Charge" fight, get as close, and Alpha Strike everything. A lot of tatics and strategy is not really there. In a open field, or terrain like that, no battle should be like that.

They tend to get broken of that when the vet players use terrain, and damage arcs to their advantage. You would be amazed
how many times I have seen a newer player look confused when I present one side or the other a 'mech to them so they are
hitting on fresher armour, or when I use partial cover, so about half the hits actually hit nothing.

[Fear Factory]

In my group we are seeing a lot of close combat, in fact, in almost every game we play there will at least be a bit of kicking. Close combat seem to be deal quite a respectable amount of damage, in particular if you can get in behind the enemy mech, so that it can't hit you back. Kicking in particular seem to be quite powerful, as it is rather easy to hit, and standing bellow a hill seem to be an invitation for a "kick in the face" (which quite often is fatal). Is this a sign of my groups inexperience with the game, or is it how games usually end up?

It's one of the many reasons I liked the old base-to-hit physical attack system.  It understood that a kick or a punch is basically a free attack and is pretty powerful plus there was more risk behind the kick.  Kicks do high damage and can knock the enemy on the ground while punches can tenderize the inside of a 'Mech's cockpit.  Long before TW, my gaming group and I made a house rule that took the difference in piloting and added that to the base to hit.  So if you're a 2 pilot against a 5 pilot, calculate a kick normally, then apply a -3 modifier.

Although, with either system, I actually prefer playing the range game.  What I mean is, if I have LRM's and my enemy has a Large Laser, you will find me in the magic 7 hex outside of the large's arc.  When it's a good opportunity I'll close in and do a kick or punch...  usually a punch to knock a pilot out.

[StCptMara]

"Always take the high ground! That way you can kick their heads off!"

[Fnord]

That is a nice picture. How did the poor T-bolt fare? Also, I'm seeing a lot of infantry & tanks in that picture. It is nice to see people use those unsung heroes (they never seem to get any credit when I read about how people play B-tech)

They tend to get broken of that when the vet players use terrain, and damage arcs to their advantage. You would be amazed
how many times I have seen a newer player look confused when I present one side or the other a 'mech to them so they are
hitting on fresher armour, or when I use partial cover, so about half the hits actually hit nothing.

My group is quite fond of partial cover, which might be one of the reasons why it often ends in close combat. It is quite frustrating to see all those "hits" do nothing, in particular against quad mechs, so people will just run up and kick a mech after a while. Using hit archs properly might be something that we have to work on though.

[Challenger]

A lot of the newer player just believe in the "Charge" fight, get as close, and Alpha Strike everything. A lot of tatics and strategy is not really there. In a open field, or terrain like that, no battle should be like that.

I believe there is a place for it even in the open field.  But your right that not every battle should devolve into a Melee.  If your going to charge you need to pick your moment.

I kinda like the 'official' DC approach of maneuver and skirmish until you have the enemy where you want them, then finish them with an all out charge.  (In contrast to the unofficial DC approach of simply launching an all out charge at the drop of a hat)

Challenger

[Beukeboom Fan]

See..this has never been my experience. I have always seen my players go MORE aggressive in Campaign play, to finish the fights
quickly, so they do not have to have as much repairs, and, if they can take out that enemy mech with more of it
intact, then salvage is a bonus.

Also, it's been my experience that the best way to get useful salvage is to destroy a leg on a mech.  One really good way to do that is to connect on kick.

[deathfrombeyond]

Close range combat is fairly typical of 'Mech engagements because of how atrocious to hit rolls are in the game. Long range damage doesn't mean a lick if it isn't hitting the opposition with any sort of reliability. Weapon attacks made at close range and physical attacks connect significantly more often than weapon attacks made at long range. Additionally, weapons optimized for close range attacks tend to deliver more damage per ton and per heat point than weapons optimized for long range attacks.

Seems like a no brainer to me.

[DireBunny]

In BV-based games, betting on close combat is often more cost-effective. A BV-cheap poorly armed mechs that have good enough armor still can kick (and are often viewed as "kick delivery vehicles"). Also, there's a plenty of good cheap close range brawlers, but not so much cheap long-range platforms, especially if you are playing with additional limitations that discourage Clan LPL spamming.

Also, bad things sometimes happen - for example, you can loose initiative for several turns in a row. For an LRM platform like an Archer which tries to keep enemies at range this can be a difference between life and death. For a close-range brawler - not that much, you are prepared for those close-ups.

Don't get me wrong. I'm a long time Hellbringer fan myself, and I do like the extreme of using range/terrain/mobility as an armor. But it's much safer to use a hulking close range brawler =).

[Demon55]

I will often have my above average skilled pilots in mechs with longer ranged weapons supporting their less skilled comrades in mechs with medium and close ranged weapons.  Although I do prefer shy away from slow mechs that only have close ranged weapons like the Hunchback, unless I do not have a choice.  I will accept a mech with close ranged weapons if it can rapidly close with the enemy.

[Legion]

Battles should be ended by your artillery.  8)  If you don't have that, use your rifles to make the enemy keep their heads down while you flank, or close with a grenade. 

The way I see it, the range weapons in BTech are for controlling the fire lanes while the Hunchback, SRM carrier etc.  close with the deathdealing weapons.  Use long range snipers to keep the enemy where you want him, because the knockout punch (figuratively or literally) will come from up close more often than not.

Also, I agree with what's already been said, average damage output generally rises the closer you get to your target, hence the tendency to close.