BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat
BattleTech Game Systems => General BattleTech Discussion => Topic started by: Garagegamer on 30 March 2024, 21:54:31
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I've been a big fan for many years so I had wondered if there was a plan to make super heavy mechs super heavy assault mechs or super light mechs etc? Quad mechs? ( Doomchaser)
I like the idea where the inner sphere tries out more unique squads due to constraints on production speed. Also from a game play standpoint these mechs don't need to be very overpowered. (Please don't mention the Amaris emperor mech.) I more was wondering due to an idea that they have better tech in the 3150s than the 2800s.
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Minis of the Ares Super Heavy Mech (Possibly usable as the Poseidon as well depending on how the multiconfiguration gimmick it is getting works),
the Ion Sparrow Ultra Light Mech, and a number of different quad mechs where on the list of planned future releases (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=84184.msg1999468#msg1999468) that was revealed at Kerenskykon two weeks ago.
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Roadrunner or celerity is the ultralight, and I don't think it's up for release. Ion sparrow is just a light.
/Pedantic
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The Roadrunner has been out for years as a metal mini. There's no such thing as a "super assault mech," the superheavy mech class refers to mechs that mass from 105-200 tons, not super-powered heavy mechs. And since they barely function at the upper end of that category there's no point in creating anything bigger. As was previously stated, quad mechs have been in the game nearly from the beginning.
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There are quite a few recent quad mechs, super cool ones too
Getting them in plastic is a different thing (Doom Courser is upcoming one but nothing else so far beyond that)
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There are quads in a couple of the upcoming Mercenaries KS ForcePacks:
- Scorpion - Inner Sphere Security Lance
- Goliath - Inner Sphere Assault Lance
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Those two go without saying obviously, they are already on the boat IIRC
I meant other than two OGs the Doom Courser is the only one
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cough - Thunder Fox - cough
when/if this ForcePack in the pipeline comes out
House Steiner II (Q3 2025) - ForcePack
Fafnir (FNR-5), Thunder Fox L8, Rawhide, Zeus X (ZEU-X4), Blitzkrieg (BTZ-3F, Premium)
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by 2025 we'll have a fair shake of the quads out there in plastic (no there aren't very many)
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by 2025 we'll have a fair shake of the quads out there in plastic (no there aren't very many)
We'll have four. I can think of at least 16 quad mechs off the top of my head, plus the quad vees.
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There are 35-40
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I've been a big fan for many years so I had wondered if there was a plan to make super heavy mechs super heavy assault mechs or super light mechs etc? Quad mechs? ( Doomchaser)
I like the idea where the inner sphere tries out more unique squads due to constraints on production speed. Also from a game play standpoint these mechs don't need to be very overpowered. (Please don't mention the Amaris emperor mech.) I more was wondering due to an idea that they have better tech in the 3150s than the 2800s.
I want to Punt on first down on this idea... but i can't. Give me a moment here...
Most of the worlds that holds a sizable human population are worlds that ride the Goldie Locks zone (Good enough air% and air pressure, close enough gravity, good enough to tolerable temperature, etc.) and most equipment (in the game) is designed for those near-earth like conditions...
but what if there was a Nitch where specific units were designed for environmental conditions barely outside Goldie Locks zones? Say low gravity? Low gravity (and higher gravity) tends to be punishing to some mechs (Solaris 7, for example, is very unforgiving for fast moving Lights, at a certain speed). An assault 'mech or Colossus-class Bipedal, Tripod or Quad would feel less imcumbering on a low G world, IF It wasn't pushing the envelope in the first place, yes? (or No(tm).
thoughts?
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There are 35-40
Is that counting the two different iterations of Project Phoenix for the Scorpion and Goliath as separate from the Reseen versions or not?
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No
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I was a bit over. Araña/Tolva are militamech / clan standard sides of the same coin. It also includes quadvees, which is a special class like LAMs
Antlion
Araña
Arion
Balius
Barghest
Bishamon
Blue Flame
Boreas
Celerity
Cyllaros
Doom Courser
Fire Scorpion
Goliath
Great Turtle
Harpagos
Jaguar
Lich
Notos
Revenant
Rhino
Sarath
Scorpion
Sirocco
Snow Fox
Stalking Spider
Stalking Spider II
Tarantula
Thunder Fox
Thunder Stallion
Tolva
Trebaruna
Ursa
White Flame
Xanthos
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Is that counting the two different iterations of Project Phoenix for the Scorpion and Goliath as separate from the Reseen versions or not?
There are 26 quad mechs: Antlion, Arana, Balius, Barghest, Bishamon, Blue Flame, Doom Courser, Fire Scorpion, Goliath, Great Turtle, Jaguar, Rhino, Sarath, Scorpion, Sirocco, Snow Fox, Stalking Spider, Stalking Spider II, Tarantula, Thunder Fox, Thunder Stallion, Tolva, Trebaruna, Ursa, White Flame, and Xanathos.
Then there are 3 Quad drones: Celerity, Lich, and Revenant.
And 5 QuadVees: Arion, Boreas, Cyllaros, Harpagos, and Notos.
And finally the Scorpion LAM.
For a total of 35 quad mech designs.
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QuadVees are an example of a "new" technology which, in game terms, is being evolved "on-screen" - as in, during the time in which Catalyst Game Labs has taken the lead on moving the timeline forward from the Dark Age Era into the IlClan Era.
While there was a throwaway mention of a "QuadVee" somewhere in a MW:DA/AoD product, the first actual rules, Record Sheets, and Unit Cards for these designs emerged in CGL publications. Indeed, the earliest prototypes were "tracked" QuadVees; only later (both in-universe and in game publication terms) did the Notos, the first "wheeled" QuadVee, emerge.
Going forward, I hope that more can be shown in terms of how much farther the QuadVee concept can evolve in terms of unit design; in how well Clan Hell's Horses succeed (or not) in terms of incorporating them into their combined arms doctrine; and, perhaps, in whether or not any of the other known Clans (to include the Scorpion Empire) might one day take a closer look at QuadVee technology for their own uses.
Although, since even the Horses deploy QuadVees two to a Point, it would seem best to compare them to tanks and other combat vehicles, rather than "standard" BattleMechs, in terms of where that place in the Horse touman might end up being.
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Actually, the Horses - as well as their estranged sibkin over in Clan Stone Lion - are noted as investigating other technologies also.
The Machina Domini system was originally designed and intended for use by the Word of Blake Shadow Divisions. However, the Horses have been slowly chopping away at producing a Clan variant, which made use of ProtoMech Enhanced Imaging rather than the Manei Domini's VDNI. No word yet on if or when they might field such a unit, however - or, for that matter, if they coin a term with fewer Blakist connotations for it by then.
Meanwhile, the Nova CEWS system deployed by Society Septs during the Wars of Reaving has been taken on board by the Stone Lions - but (at last reporting) only for testing on ground vehicles, and only for use against non-Clan opponents. Which, post-Reaving, would include the Horses themselves...
Indeed, now that Clan Sea Fox has gained access to Ares superheavy tripod technology as isorla from the Battle of Terra, I could readily imagine the Horses at least considering taking a look at how such units might (or might not) work in the Horse touman.
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Speaking of Clan Sea Fox: they (and, by extension, anyone they are open to selling their wares to) have designed units which make use of certain new technologies on board. Consider the hardened armour used on the Hammerhead, to give one example.
But what they and others have yet to do is to develop a "generational shift" in BattleTechnology, which weaves a broad range of advances into a new "standard" by which past eras' advancements can be measured. Or at least, no-one is known to have created such a thing just yet.
Might this happen at some point between 3152 and 3250?
We'll have to wait and find out...
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i'm personally hoping we'll get Hover quadvees and VTOL quadvees, as those would offer the most battlefield utility as an alternate mode for a Mech. both would allow for very rapid mobility in their vehicle mode, with the VTOL having the added bonus of flight allowing it to reach places that a normal vehicle couldn't.
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There's also the Interface Cockpit system used by the Gestalt and Ryoken III.
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AirMechs! The AirMech mode from LAMs only no transformation; completely dedicated to its WiGE and hover capabilities.
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I want to Punt on first down on this idea... but i can't. Give me a moment here...
Most of the worlds that holds a sizable human population are worlds that ride the Goldie Locks zone (Good enough air% and air pressure, close enough gravity, good enough to tolerable temperature, etc.) and most equipment (in the game) is designed for those near-earth like conditions...
but what if there was a Nitch where specific units were designed for environmental conditions barely outside Goldie Locks zones? Say low gravity? Low gravity (and higher gravity) tends to be punishing to some mechs (Solaris 7, for example, is very unforgiving for fast moving Lights, at a certain speed). An assault 'mech or Colossus-class Bipedal, Tripod or Quad would feel less imcumbering on a low G world, IF It wasn't pushing the envelope in the first place, yes? (or No(tm).
thoughts?
You just described a 'Mech. No, seriously, BattleMechs come with full environmental dealing whilst tanks do not for some reason, 'Mechs are actually better then submarines down to depths equal to what modern millitary attack submarines can dive. About the only environment that 'Mechs don't work well in is pitched fleet battles.
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For the Quadvee tech I can see it being popular with the FedSuns and Lyrans since they both use RCT and LCT. As for new units if Quadvees become popular outside of fiction I hope we see a Goliath or Scorpion Quadvee.
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Personally I'd like to see the six-legger neck to appear. Just around everything up given that it appeared in a video game associated with battletech/MechWarrior.
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In case anyone was wondering (or cares), here's a list of the current RP/IWM Metal Quads. Granted, 2 on the List are Unseen, and the molds long since destroyed, but there's always "The Secondary Market". :undecided:
Quad 'Mech Minis
Name Model SN Notes
Antlion LK-3D (20-5165)
Arion (BT-304) QuadVee
Barghest BGS-1T (20-644)
Barghest BGS-4T (20-5037)
Bishamon BSN-3K (20-636)
Blue Flame BLF-2 (20-229)
Fire Scorpion (20-655)
Goliath GOL-1H (20-846) Unseen, OOP
Goliath GOL-4S (20-202) Reseen
Goliath GOL-2H (20-316) Reseen
Goliath GOL-5D (20-468) Reseen
Goliath C (20-5196)
Great Turtle GTR-1 (20-405)
Jaguar (20-5154)
Revenant UBM-1A (BT-290) Technically Drones, rather than " 'Mechs"
Revenant UBM-2R (BT-347) Technically Drones, rather than " 'Mechs"
Sarath SRTH-10 Prime(20-5143)
Sarath SRTH-10 A (BT-409)
Sarath SRTH-10 B (BT-410)
Scorpion SCP-1N (20-859) Unseen, OOP
Scorpion SCP-12S (20-216) Reseen
Sirocco SRC-3C (20-647)
Snow Fox (20-651)
Stalking Spider (20-918)
Tarantula ZPH-1A (20-789)
Thunder Fox TFT-A9 (20-5125)
Thunder Stallion (20-656)
Trebaruna TR-XB (BT-406)
Trebaruna TR-XB (TREBLTDJP-16) LE Jumping Variant Mini
White Flame WHF-3B (20-230)
Xanthos Mech Xnt-30 (20-482)
Xanthos Mech Xnt-70 (20-5158)
Then, MF Germany made one several years back, though it's NOT Canon. The Surtur mini came in both a one-piece leg and multi-piece leg versions. Seems like they remade it several years back, I got mine before 2010, so they're the "older" sculpts. Not sure what (if Any) the difference is though, in the newer sculpts.
I've Currently got 151 Quad minis. :rolleyes: That will go up a bit when the Mercs KS arrives! :grin: Eh, only by 2, but still!
As far as Quad Drones go, I'd REALLY LOVE to see a Lich!
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You just described a 'Mech. No, seriously, BattleMechs come with full environmental dealing whilst tanks do not for some reason, 'Mechs are actually better then submarines down to depths equal to what modern millitary attack submarines can dive. About the only environment that 'Mechs don't work well in is pitched fleet battles.
a typical conceit for giant robot settings, to be honest. whatever applied phlebotinum is in use that makes giant piloted robots possible usually doesn't get applied to conventional vehicles at all or to the same extent. since in a realistic setting where the various technologies are applied more uniformly, tracked/wheeled Tanks would usually end up more combat effective than legged vehicles
battletech does a better job than most in disguising the conceit though.
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For the Quadvee tech I can see it being popular with the FedSuns and Lyrans since they both use RCT and LCT. As for new units if Quadvees become popular outside of fiction I hope we see a Goliath or Scorpion Quadvee.
Agreed on QuadVees, those things got potential, I especially like Notos
I don't think we will be getting QuadVee versions of Scorpion and Goliath, those two are way too bulky plus RecGuides already hinted that they are due for Omni treatment
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For the Quadvee tech I can see it being popular with the FedSuns and Lyrans since they both use RCT and LCT. As for new units if Quadvees become popular outside of fiction I hope we see a Goliath or Scorpion Quadvee.
honestly, I doubt it, the main value of tanks over mechs is cost. quadvees kinda eliminiate that.
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More QuadVees with different motive types, hover, screw, VTOL, submarine/boat would be cool.
Piloted AutoMechs, of all types, as an improvement/biped alternative to QuadVees.
Tripod Vehicle Mechs of all types above.
More LAM Types (Clan, Quads, Tripods, Industrial, Bimodal, heavier than 55 tons, OMNI, Battle Armor) with a variety of motive options for different engine types and fewer than 3 jump jets.
Mechs with other engine types (Battery + Steam)
Pure AirMechs
Pure VeeMechs
Super Light Mechs: The IS's answer to Protos.
Mechs, of all types, having cockpits in multiple locations and Mechs with the old Dual Cockpits.
APC Mechs
Six-eight Legged Mechs.
Centaur Mechs.
Crablike Mechs (4+ legs, 2 arms, no torso twist)
RV Mechs (The fluff for the Marco gives it a 2 man cabin.)
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A super heavy mech that makes sense, aka 4 or 6 legged mech not the crazy tripod design.
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Even if we get a Goliath IIC mech I would like to see an Assault Quadvee. If there is one please disregard the post.
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Goliath C is an actual thing. See recguide 1
and in general quads with turrets are an entire different species than OG rules quads.
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I don't think we will be getting QuadVee versions of Scorpion and Goliath, those two are way too bulky plus RecGuides already hinted that they are due for Omni treatment
The Goliath is too big, but there are QuadVees heavier than the Scorpion.
I believe that current Design rules limit QuadVees to under the Assault weight (or just barely in the Assault weight class).
Still, that's getting in to Fan Design territory.
Would like to see models of more current QuadVees than the Arion, though.
honestly, I doubt it, the main value of tanks over mechs is cost. quadvees kinda eliminiate that.
True, however, they are more survivable than tanks, and have some fun shenanigans they can pull, as well as being more easily transportable, with the lighter ones able to use Light Vehicle Bays.
And I wouldn't limit them to just Davion and Steiner. There isn't a House, Great or Periphery, that wouldn't like to try them out. The capacity to develop them is a different story. Most of the ones that are capable, just aren't close enough or have any experience with them.
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but what if there was a Nitch where specific units were designed for environmental conditions barely outside Goldie Locks zones? Say low gravity? Low gravity (and higher gravity) tends to be punishing to some mechs (Solaris 7, for example, is very unforgiving for fast moving Lights, at a certain speed). An assault 'mech or Colossus-class Bipedal, Tripod or Quad would feel less imcumbering on a low G world, IF It wasn't pushing the envelope in the first place, yes? (or No(tm).
thoughts?
What would they be guarding there though, to justify using mechs?
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What would they be guarding there though, to justify using mechs?
And more importantly, to justify the use of such highly specialized mechs? There are already mechs with variants that are specially configured for use in low G or zero G conditions. If a mech was really necessary someone could just use one of them rather than going to the expense of designing a whole new chassis.
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QuadVees can weigh up to 100 tons.
IO:AE pg 128
Weight Limits
QuadVees may only be constructed within the weight limits
of standard BattleMechs. They cannot be constructed as superheavy ’Mechs
A 200 ton QuadVee would be interesting though.
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QuadVees can weigh up to 100 tons.
IO:AE pg 128
Weight Limits
QuadVees may only be constructed within the weight limits
of standard BattleMechs. They cannot be constructed as superheavy ’Mechs
A 200 ton QuadVee would be interesting though.
Thanks for the clarification. According to sarna.net the heaviest was 75 tons so I assumed there was a rule against having Quadvee Assaults.
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No, there's just only a handful of quadvees that have been released.
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QuadVees can weigh up to 100 tons.
IO:AE pg 128
Weight Limits
QuadVees may only be constructed within the weight limits
of standard BattleMechs. They cannot be constructed as superheavy ’Mechs
A 200 ton QuadVee would be interesting though.
Hunh, interesting. I thought I read in FM:3145 that it was much lighter. It's been a while, though. Though, there should be a weight limit for the wheel-based ones (which may be what I was reading), since Wheeled Vehicles have a lighter upper limit without going Super-Heavy themselves.
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No, there's just only a handful of quadvees that have been released.
Sadly, only the one mini though. :cry:
QuadVees can weigh up to 100 tons.
IO:AE pg 128
Weight Limits
QuadVees may only be constructed within the weight limits
of standard BattleMechs. They cannot be constructed as superheavy ’Mechs
A 200 ton QuadVee would be interesting though.
If by Interesting you mean TERRIFYING!! :evil:
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Would it really be that terrifying? Quadvees are already quite crit-intensive, even with the superheavy effectively doubling their slots, and they suffer from extreme lack of mobility.
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The Hurbie Quadveesheet I made up to match the mini is entirely critpacked but actually has decent speed, on roads with the +1 on pavement with wheels bonus. Something like 3(4)/5(6)
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Mechs (Battle and Omnis) with four arms.
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....
If by Interesting you mean TERRIFYING!! :evil:
Rattler QuadVee
Wanna get nuts? Let's get nuts!!!
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Mechs (Battle and Omnis) with four arms.
Prince Gorog would like a word.
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Rattler QuadVee
Wanna get nuts? Let's get nuts!!!
Why am I getting C&C4 vibes?...
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Thanks for the clarification. According to sarna.net the heaviest was 75 tons so I assumed there was a rule against having Quadvee Assaults.
You're welcome.
Hunh, interesting. I thought I read in FM:3145 that it was much lighter. It's been a while, though. Though, there should be a weight limit for the wheel-based ones (which may be what I was reading), since Wheeled Vehicles have a lighter upper limit without going Super-Heavy themselves.
Maybe? I don't remember. I was looking in Interstellar Ops. It doesn't give a weight limit for wheeled QuadVees either. Just the 100 ton limit. Maybe that's why wheels weigh more?
If by Interesting you mean TERRIFYING!! :evil:
:evil:
Rattler QuadVee
Wanna get nuts? Let's get nuts!!!
:evil: :drinking01:
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I want to Punt on first down on this idea... but i can't. Give me a moment here...
Most of the worlds that holds a sizable human population are worlds that ride the Goldie Locks zone (Good enough air% and air pressure, close enough gravity, good enough to tolerable temperature, etc.) and most equipment (in the game) is designed for those near-earth like conditions...
but what if there was a Nitch where specific units were designed for environmental conditions barely outside Goldie Locks zones? Say low gravity? Low gravity (and higher gravity) tends to be punishing to some mechs (Solaris 7, for example, is very unforgiving for fast moving Lights, at a certain speed). An assault 'mech or Colossus-class Bipedal, Tripod or Quad would feel less imcumbering on a low G world, IF It wasn't pushing the envelope in the first place, yes? (or No(tm).
thoughts?
Variants of these mechs already exists. It's just you gotta search for them. They are called zero G mechs and they usually are weaker than other variants.
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The faction I can think of with the most divergent "home" environment might be the Belters of the Sol system. However, they are already renowned for their aerospace capabilities, not so much for the use of "ground" units.
Still, I could picture the ilClan offering to provide supplies of low-gravity Elemental variants - along with the HarJel needed to make the most of such battlesuit types - in exchange for the Belters' support of, say... a new SLDF Regular Army (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=83429.0). or rather, to serve as aerospace pilots in support of these regiments.
Well, it is possible that the Republic had already made low-gravity battlesuits available to the Belters. But unless Clan Sea Fox was willing to export HarJel for use in the RAF, such suits might not be quite as effective in the Belters' home environments as those a Sea Fox-backed ilClan can now offer.
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I can see specialized mechs for one off scenarios for fun. A low grave Super Heavy on a moon map would be a fun boss like encounter. Quad mechs modified for a beach landing as those four legged machines would be less likely to get stuck in the muck as they crawled onto the beach (wait, aquatic Great Turtle design! ) Ultra Light designed for anti infantry work inside the a underground complex (more survivable than BA alone anyway) Those designs would only really thrive in that one scenario but it would make the scenario itself more memorable. I modified the Necromo Nightmare scenario to feature primarily the Drone Battlemechs, gave it more of a Terminator feel with the city streets covered with dead bodies as the drones just stomping on the dead as they targeted anything still moving (namely the other players) While the drones themselves where not that remarkable, the set up and the setting made them a more memorable.
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The Thunder Fox ngl is pretty sweet. Imagine a marauder with four legs.
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Variants of these mechs already exists. It's just you gotta search for them. They are called zero G mechs and they usually are weaker than other variants.
*nods* Those 'mechs are specific to Zero-G (as if they were deployed on the hulls of Snow Raven or Sea Fox warships)?
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*nods* Those 'mechs are specific to Zero-G (as if they were deployed on the hulls of Snow Raven or Sea Fox warships)?
More likely on the hulls of space stations, or on airless mining colonies.
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I heard they are gonna release the fox mercs and the celestials!
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We'll have four of them. I can recall at least 16 quad mechs right off the bat, not to mention the quad vehicles.
4 plastic quads means that 11% of all canon quad mechs are out in plastic. Which looked like a decent number at first, then I checked and if the current release plan holds we will be at ~36% of all mechs having been released in plastic at the end of the public schedule. We will also be at 67% of all tripods available in plastic (assuming the Ares pack does the listed variants by having swappable arms). Clearly we need 2 force packs of nothing but quads to get the ratio in line with all other mechs.
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That was just a bot that had copy-pasted a comment I'd made two weeks ago to insert a link to a suspicious website.