The Society's ToyBox

[Maingunnery]

This thread is meant as a discussion and collection thread for custom Society tech.

My personal perspective that I will use is a scenario where most of the Society managed to make an orderly retreat to the Inner Sphere and gradually spread their influence in a large number of factions (RA, RotS, CSF, etc). Here they also started developing new units and equipment for the case that they need to intervene again. There are lot of cells, some deeply embedded in various factions and others part of the more industrial independent Inner Circle.

Feel free to post your custom Society tech, be it stuff you feel that was missing from WoR, or hypothetical Dark Age innovations.

[Maingunnery]

BA Fusillade (OS)
The original Fusillade missile launcher was deemed to be a failure, the main problem was the low number of total missiles it could launch for its tonnage. Further research into solving this and other issues was delayed by other priorities and the deaths of the original research team.
After nearly half a century the concept was revisited for a Battle Armor weapon. The end result was an one-shot six-tube ATM launcher. The idea was that the increased range or increased salvo damage would help make the smaller Society BA formations more effective and survivable. The BA Fusillade is able to use all ATM and Improved ATM ammunition. But it sacrifices the advanced integrated guidance system, for a standard guidance system.
Weight: 180 kg
Slots: 2
BV: 11
Cost: 100.000

[Maingunnery]

LRM/SRM Torpedo Ammo
During the scientist rebellion the Society forces had multiple successful underwater engagements. However the requirement to mount torpedo launchers proved to be a severe downside in cases where the Society forces were forced to leave the water. To solve this, they invented the LRM-T and SRM-T Missiles. Based upon multi-purpose missiles, these torpedoes can be launched underwater from a LRM or SRM missile launcher and fully function like torpedoes. This removes the logistical requirement to carry separate torpedo launchers, while reducing the time needed to adapt a 'Mech for underwater combat.



Feral Suicide Implant
With many Society agents in various factions, it became necessary for the Society to provide an efficient means for agents to prevent being captured. The solution is an covert implant that can produce a fatal cocktail of combat drugs. The drugs will force their bodies into extreme physical performance, allow them to ignore fatigue and injury, but killing them within ten minutes. After the user dies, the by-products will create a strong corrosive enzymes, which will destroy the body and any item carried.
Duration: 1D6 min
Notes: Ignore Fatigue; Ignore Injury; modifiers; STR +4; BOD +1; WIL +5; RFL +4; INT –7*; CHA –6*
*To a minimum of 1.

[Maingunnery]

[Society Modularity Advancements]
One of the longest running Society projects had been about improving and expanding the scope of omni-technology. After a leap in Endo-Steel production quality and design, they were able to integrate connectors and other features directly into the structure. This allowed for Endo-Steel weight savings and omni-technology to be applied to a wider range of unit types.


Improved BA Chassis
In recent years the Society made improvements to the old Clan Battle Armor chassis. It was decided to sacrifice any possible weight savings to integrate mounts directly into the chassis and to upgrade the standard Harjel system to a scaled down Harjel II repair system.
With exception to turrets, BA with an improved chassis do not require additional mounts for weapons, equipment, manipulators or auxiliary motive systems (Jump Jets, UMUs, VTOL). If the BA suffers armor damage, it will recover 2 points of armor protection during the following End Phase. The number of armor points restored can never exceed the undamaged armor value of the suit.


ProtoMech Endo-Steel (PES)
The Society's advancements with Endo-Steel and modular connectors have allowed for ProtoMechs to be constructed with OmniTechnology, while reducing the structure weight by half.
When constructed as an Omni-Proto, the unit can modular mount omni-pods and auxiliary motive systems, such as Jump Jets. This does came at the expense of lower space limits in the torso (-1).
Cost: 2,000 x Unit Tonnage
Tech Rating: F


Vehicular Endo-Steel (VES)
The development of Vehicular Endo-Steel was highly welcomed by Society's vehicle forces. It provides Endo-Steel weight saving, at the cost of one equipment slot, both for Combat Vehicles and Super-Heavy Combat Vehicles.
Cost: 100,000 x Structure Tonnage
Tech Rating: F

[truetanker]

What about old SLDF era Genetics?

Something that all clans should have, like the Infantry and Space mods... they should be around.

TT

[Maingunnery]

What about old SLDF era Genetics?

Something that all clans should have, like the Infantry and Space mods... they should be around.

TT

Well, I have been thinking about them using Perfected Mutagenic Virotherapy to internally replace traditional phenotypes, but I am not sure how to tune the RPG parts.
This would also allow the Society to make a higher percentage of their sibkos and personnel combat ready. Current ideas:

Interface MV: Immunity to the negative effects from cybernetics interfaces. The ability to naturally pilot quads (mech, proto & BA).
Piloting MV: Improved reflexes, dexterity, hostile environments mods. Good for aerospace pilots and special forces.
Infantry MV: Basic Elemental package.
Berserker MV: Used on irredeemable criminals to turn them into the biological equivalent of an obedient Tau Zombie.



A nice RPG campaign hook would be for a player character to obtain a injection, like from a misplaced shipment or from a raid on a Clan facility.

[grimlock1]

What about breaking the barrier on LAMs and weight saving equipment?  QuadVees can use XL engines and endo.

An melee-based taser with significantly higher odds of causing a shutdown, but it can only be used after successfully grappling the target mech.

[Maingunnery]

What about breaking the barrier on LAMs and weight saving equipment?  QuadVees can use XL engines and endo.

The ideas that come to mind is either a lateral XL engine (putting all the extra crits into the CT, but this would also require a compact gyro) and/or some kind of improved bi-modal transformation (not having one mode, for reducing the conversion equipment weight down to 5%).

An melee-based taser with significantly higher odds of causing a shutdown, but it can only be used after successfully grappling the target mech.

I would say derive it from the Electric Discharge Armor, make a 'Mech-scale version. Have the shutdown rolls bonuses for the amount of turns between discharges and if the melee attack hits internal structure.

[Xeno426]

I'd like to see something like BA Fire armor, but for protomechs. Same with BA Stealth armor.

For the fire resistant armor, could cost something like 60 kg per point of armor (which matches the relative increase in mass per point of armor in BA), maybe take up a torso slot.

Stealth armor could weigh 70 kg/point, while taking up one (maybe two) torso slots. This matches the relative mass of Stealth (Improved) BA armor versus standard armor.

That should open up some interesting possibilities.

That Berserk MV reminds me of another "Berserker".


And, of course, the pilot within.

[grimlock1]

The ideas that come to mind is either a lateral XL engine (putting all the extra crits into the CT, but this would also require a compact gyro) and/or some kind of improved bi-modal transformation (not having one mode, for reducing the conversion equipment weight down to 5%).

I swear I saw something in an older rule set saying LAMs could use TSM because all the crits would fit in one torso location.  By that logic, Clan ES and FF should be permissible.  So Composite, Endo-Composite and Light Ferro should work too.  Hardened and Reflective armor would also both fit but hardened doesn't exactly save weight, and Reflective would make crash rolls....

[Maingunnery]

I'd like to see something like BA Fire armor, but for protomechs. Same with BA Stealth armor.

For the fire resistant armor, could cost something like 60 kg per point of armor (which matches the relative increase in mass per point of armor in BA), maybe take up a torso slot.

Stealth armor could weigh 70 kg/point, while taking up one (maybe two) torso slots. This matches the relative mass of Stealth (Improved) BA armor versus standard armor.

That should open up some interesting possibilities.

Definitely interesting options, I would love a Minotaur with fire-resistant armor.
But what about using arms slots? This would leave the torso slots for structure and engine options.

I swear I saw something in an older rule set saying LAMs could use TSM because all the crits would fit in one torso location.  By that logic, Clan ES and FF should be permissible.  So Composite, Endo-Composite and Light Ferro should work too.  Hardened and Reflective armor would also both fit but hardened doesn't exactly save weight, and Reflective would make crash rolls....

Yes, the older rules did allow Endo and Ferro, but current rules disallow them because we 'can' put them in multiple locations.

[Xeno426]

LRM/SRM Torpedo Ammo
During the scientist rebellion the Society forces had multiple successful underwater engagements. However the requirement to mount torpedo launchers proved to be a severe downside in cases where the Society forces were forced to leave the water. To solve this, they invented the LRM-T and SRM-T Missiles. Based upon multi-purpose missiles, these torpedoes can be launched underwater from a LRM or SRM missile launcher and fully function like torpedoes. This removes the logistical requirement to carry separate torpedo launchers, while reducing the time needed to adapt a 'Mech for underwater combat.

What about something more like MMLs?

A launcher that can use either LRT or LRM and another that can use either SRT or SRM ammo, but with odd tube sizes.

[Maingunnery]

What about something more like MMLs?

A launcher that can use either LRT or LRM and another that can use either SRT or SRM ammo, but with odd tube sizes.

Why not both?: MTL
Clan Missile/Torpedo Launcher?

[Xeno426]

More of a balance concern; wouldn't want it to completely replace LRMs.

[Maingunnery]

More of a balance concern; wouldn't want it to completely replace LRMs.

I would imagine those launchers to be heavier and bigger then Clan LRMs and not reaching the 20 tube limit.
Example: MTL-5
1.5 tons ?
2 crits ?

[truetanker]

I'd just re-write the fluff on Multi-Purpose Missiles to allow any unit to use them other than the BA launchers. Allowing even Infantry to use them.

TM: 261 and 262. ( Basic is 1/2 amount per ton )

Problem solved.

TT

[idea weenie]

How about Thunderbolt munitions that deliver SRTs?  Enemy Mechs sneaking up from underwater?  Just launch this missile to the hex you think they are in, and the SRTs are dropped off to kill.

Hedgehog launcher - uses the MRM launcher to fire a series of explosives into a hex, that detonate on contact with a solid surface.  Roll 1/2 the tube rating for the MRM launcher if the firing unit has LOS or a spotter with LOS to the target, otherwise roll 1/4 the tube rating (FRD).  Each explosive does 1 pt of damage and is inflicted as though the attack came from above (so Punch table for Mechs).

Shotgun laser: trading off the Pulse laser's targeting bonus in exchange for a boost in damage.

Advanced Smoke launchers: launching a more effective smoke cloud to blind enemy Mechs, this exploits that Clan Mechwarriors prefer to engage 1:1 duels, and allows the Society Mechs/vehs to get into close range without suffering massive damage from closing.  On the turn fired it doubles smoke penalties for 1 hex at 1 level of height, but dissipates into normal smoke after 1 turn.  Requires 2 smoke launchers on firing unit if a Mech, so the enemy Mechwarrior doesn't see them above or below the cloud.  Vehicles only need 1, as they are only 1 level tall.  (Basically the unit advances and drops the smoke in front of itself as it closes, hoping the Clan Mechwarrior doesn't  dodge at the last moment.)

Thermal Insulating Goop: launching a thick insulating paste at the target, the objective is to jam up enemy heat sinks to reduce enemy firepower.  Heat sinks in the affected body part function at 1/2 effectiveness (FRU) until the goop is cleared back at base, or washed off by immersing the affected component in water.  Multi-body part engines treat as 1/4 the heat sink capacity per side torso, and half the heat sink capacity in the center torso.  Clan Mechwarriors would frequently refit a single Gauss Rifle onto their Mechs just in case.

[Maingunnery]

Advanced Smoke launchers: launching a more effective smoke cloud to blind enemy Mechs, this exploits that Clan Mechwarriors prefer to engage 1:1 duels, and allows the Society Mechs/vehs to get into close range without suffering massive damage from closing.  On the turn fired it doubles smoke penalties for 1 hex at 1 level of height, but dissipates into normal smoke after 1 turn.  Requires 2 smoke launchers on firing unit if a Mech, so the enemy Mechwarrior doesn't see them above or below the cloud.  Vehicles only need 1, as they are only 1 level tall.  (Basically the unit advances and drops the smoke in front of itself as it closes, hoping the Clan Mechwarrior doesn't  dodge at the last moment.)

Thermal Insulating Goop: launching a thick insulating paste at the target, the objective is to jam up enemy heat sinks to reduce enemy firepower.  Heat sinks in the affected body part function at 1/2 effectiveness (FRU) until the goop is cleared back at base, or washed off by immersing the affected component in water.  Multi-body part engines treat as 1/4 the heat sink capacity per side torso, and half the heat sink capacity in the center torso.  Clan Mchwarriors would frequently refit a single Gauss Rifle onto their Mechs just in case.

What about combining these two?: Insulating Smoke
Blocks LOS like smoke, but it partly covers up the surfaces of DHS of any units going through those smoke hexes (1/2 effectiveness). It has no effect on single heatsinks and can be washed off with any liquid during combat.

[Maingunnery]

Nova Stealth Suite
A stealth system that is as effective as the combination of Null Signature System & Chameleon Light Polarization Shield, from which it has been derived.
It is consists out of modular components (heat baffles, mimetic projectors and other components) and has to be linked to an mounted Nova CEWS.
The Nova Stealth Suite can be mounted on 'Mechs, Vehicles and Aerospace fighters. It takes up 6 crits/slots and requires additional weight.

Based upon WOR p.214. Concerning CLPS and Null-Sig:
"Improved versions using modern electronics seemed plausible, but unfeasible in the short term."

[Dragon Cat]

I have a LAM engine and a LAM Gyro in my AU

Essentially what you came up with all the crits for engine in CT with the Gyro split between left and right torsos

On this thread
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=32328.0

As for additional advances maybe Perfected EI

[idea weenie]

What about combining these two?: Insulating Smoke
Blocks LOS like smoke, but it partly covers up the surfaces of DHS of any units going through those smoke hexes (1/2 effectiveness). It has no effect on single heatsinks and can be washed off with any liquid during combat.

I was thinking the smoke would be needing to cover the entire hex, so not enough would be in one location to affect an enemy Mech.

[grimlock1]

Paul explained in the Osteon's MoTW article that the Scientists  running the Society have a fairly low opinion mech warriors.
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=20031.msg460547#msg460547

If you don't think you can trust your warriors to make smart decisions, do you really trust them to maneuver that multi-million C-Bill mech over harsh ground?

 So what if they riff on AES a bit?  Specifically the leg stuff.  Sure, leg mounted AES grants a -2 on PSR, but I was reading through ATOW:C and saw the Terrain Master SPA.  What about a AES that ties in with the sensors and gyro, such that it allows a mech to move through adverse terrain with reduced penalties?  Say Heavy woods are treated as Light for movement.  Maybe light woods and rough hexes get a 1/2 MP penalty rounded up?  So 2 hexes of rough terrain only costs 3 MP, rather than 4.

[Vehrec]

How about an Arrow V missile system?  Smaller launcher-bigger, smarter, multi-purpose missile that can be used for both AA defense and artillery attack.  The launcher is slightly smaller, only 10 tons, but the missiles themselves are each full-ton monsters, limiting practical use to heavy or superheavy vehicles and fixed emplacements.  But it can hit *anything* in the low-altitude map, has the same 30 mapsheet range as the Long Tom, and has a massively simplified logistics chain because one missile does it all except sub-munition delivery and smoke laying.  Each missile has it's own built in ECCM system as well, so standard ECM density won't cut it, you need to be either the Society or Comstar to have a single unit jam these bad boys.

For extra fun, enable 'Warbook Homing' where the missile flies over the battlefield and scans for designated designs-load up to five designs to hunt and just lob them in the direction of the foe.  Just make sure the enemy force and your force don't have any overlap, or it will lock onto the first 'legal' design it sees that matches its target profile.  Otherwise, it's just your standard inertial homing/TAG guided/terrain following/pop up-look down options, but with bigger sensors and more space for processors, it's probably a bit more accurate about that than a standard LRM or Arrow-IV.

[Alsadius]

If you're going that way, give it a few modes - TAG-based homing, dumbfire, heat-seeking, or drone mode(where it'd work like a drone mech, and a remote pilot would make the attack roll). Maybe even something Wild Weasel-y, where it'll home after ECM systems. Let the shooter choose between them at launch time.

[Vehrec]

If you're going that way, give it a few modes - TAG-based homing, dumbfire, heat-seeking, or drone mode(where it'd work like a drone mech, and a remote pilot would make the attack roll). Maybe even something Wild Weasel-y, where it'll home after ECM systems. Let the shooter choose between them at launch time.

I think we should avoid feature creep here-if we have drone-mode, home-on-laser, and Home-on-jam, do we even need 'dumbfire'?  So right now we're looking at:

• Home On TAG: The standard targeting option for all artillery, we have to include it.
• AA Mode: If this is a dual purpose missile, then this is our second option-clear the skies.
• Home On Jam: You thought Guardian could protect you?  Fool-I can find the center of a circle and dive upon it-simple geometry will suffice.
• Drone-Guidance:  Once enemy jamming is suppressed, you can use this mode to guide a missile direct to it's target-but with terribad society pilots, maybe let a scientist fly the damn missile.  Launcher cannot launch again until missile hits it's target.
• Warbook Homing:  I know what(maximum of five designs) you are driving, and so does my missile.  Gets bonuses for programming specific variants rather than just 'Catapult' or 'Marauder'.(no cheating by looking at your opponents sheets!)  Draw a line across the sheets to represent the flight course of the missile-arm it after one sheet, and then note every mech or vehicle within 20 hexes of the line.  The first one that matches one of the selected designs gets attacked by the missile.
• Heat-seeker:  Arrive at a map sheet and orbit just long enough to find the hotest mech or Vehicle (tally up all fired weapons theoretical heat for vehicles) and attack it.
   WARNING: likely to cause blue-on-blue if you haven't been careful to suppress jamming first.
• Dumbfire:  Pick a hex, and due to advanced inertial guidance, reduced chance of scatter.

That's seven modes-which ones should we cut down?

[Alsadius]

Dumbfire can be thought of as a null warbook - e.g., "I'm going to fire this at hex 0101, homing in on a McKenna". So it doesn't need to be an explicit mode per se. And AA work could easily be done with some of the other homing mechanisms - just say that your warbook can add fighters to the list as easily as Mechs, and heat/Wild Weasel/drone translate naturally as well.

[Vehrec]

Dumbfire can be thought of as a null warbook - e.g., "I'm going to fire this at hex 0101, homing in on a McKenna". So it doesn't need to be an explicit mode per se. And AA work could easily be done with some of the other homing mechanisms - just say that your warbook can add fighters to the list as easily as Mechs, and heat/Wild Weasel/drone translate naturally as well.

AA missiles have very specific flak attack rules, so we can't just use those other modes to represent them.

[grimlock1]

There's one simple bio hack the Society could use that will improve their performance.

Surgically implanted cooling loops. I have to figure that part of the targeting mods as mechs start to overheat come from the pilot's physical distress, as much as the electronics glitching out.

Wrap a some tubing around the Aorta, with ports in the skin.  Plug those tubes into the same port that would be used for the cooling vest.  Be sure to use that non-toxic coolant, cause you know, leaks. This would modulate a person's core temperature very efficiently. If the pilot's core temp stays low, they won't be sweating and dehydrating. They won't be as distracted by the discomfort of cockpit heat.  Consciousness rolls will be pushed a lot higher on the scale.   

[idea weenie]

There's one simple bio hack the Society could use that will improve their performance.

Surgically implanted cooling loops. I have to figure that part of the targeting mods as mechs start to overheat come from the pilot's physical distress, as much as the electronics glitching out.

Wrap a some tubing around the Aorta, with ports in the skin.  Plug those tubes into the same port that would be used for the cooling vest.  Be sure to use that non-toxic coolant, cause you know, leaks. This would modulate a person's core temperature very efficiently. If the pilot's core temp stays low, they won't be sweating and dehydrating. They won't be as distracted by the discomfort of cockpit heat.  Consciousness rolls will be pushed a lot higher on the scale. 

Fancy surgery, and makes the person reliant on the Society scientists to stay healthy?  Sounds about right.


Or a Worker would suggest they go with a cheaper option from Cray:
Essentially an insulated suit and a series of water loops under the suit (i.e. what we can make today).  The water loops attach to a backpack that has a kilo or more of ice in it.  Assuming a person puts out 100W of heat, and we know each kilo of ice needs 334 kiloJoules to melt, that means it will take ~55 minutes for a person to melt 1 kilo of ice using just their body heat.

(I am assuming a person only puts out 100W, since all they are doing is thinking and reacting/twitching, not lifting, carrying, running, or similar energetic motions.)

Of course, the system will be inefficient (some cooling might escape through the links and absorb ambient heat from the Mech), but even if it is only 10% efficient, that is effectively 5 minutes where the Mechwarrior should not have to worry about passing out due to excess heat.  To get the ice initially, it would either be chilled using the Mech's heat sinks (requiring a bit of work in the cockpit plus making sure to isolate the cooling loop when things get warm) or some Worker grabs a pair of ice tongs and the block of ice is loaded into the backpack at the base before the Mechwarrior is sent out (even lower-tech solution).  The Mechwarrior could even accept the higher cockpit temperatures while in non-combat status, but arming weapons would switch the coolant suit to only draw from the ice pack instead of the Mech's coolant systems.

[grimlock1]

Fancy surgery, and makes the person reliant on the Society scientists to stay healthy?  Sounds about right.

It actually not all that fancy and doesn't require much upkeep.  Broviac/Hickman catheters have been a thing since the 70's. The paperwork for implanting one takes longer than the procedure itself.  Bio-occlusive dressings like the Tegaderm in the wiki picture aren't even necessary after a few weeks. There is a fibrous cuff on the tube, just inside the skin.  The skin grows into that fiber and makes for a very strong, and secure bond.
The only "upkeep" is to flush the line with about 3 cc's of saline and another 2-3 cc's of heparine, every few days to prevent a blood clot from plugging up the end.  That's assuming that you don't something spiffy like a self sealing valve that was invented in the '80's.

In our case, risk of infection is even lower because the catheter isn't going into the circulatory system.

But because game balance, the entry site should be susceptible to nasty infections, the rubber should decompose into a toxin that causes pathological fear of slow lorises, and there is always a risk that the thermo-regulation unit malfunctions and it cools you right into hypothermia!

Or a Worker would suggest they go with a cheaper option from Cray:
Essentially an insulated suit and a series of water loops under the suit (i.e. what we can make today).  The water loops attach to a backpack that has a kilo or more of ice in it.  Assuming a person puts out 100W of heat, and we know each kilo of ice needs 334 kiloJoules to melt, that means it will take ~55 minutes for a person to melt 1 kilo of ice using just their body heat.

(I am assuming a person only puts out 100W, since all they are doing is thinking and reacting/twitching, not lifting, carrying, running, or similar energetic motions.)

Of course, the system will be inefficient (some cooling might escape through the links and absorb ambient heat from the Mech), but even if it is only 10% efficient, that is effectively 5 minutes where the Mechwarrior should not have to worry about passing out due to excess heat.  To get the ice initially, it would either be chilled using the Mech's heat sinks (requiring a bit of work in the cockpit plus making sure to isolate the cooling loop when things get warm) or some Worker grabs a pair of ice tongs and the block of ice is loaded into the backpack at the base before the Mechwarrior is sent out (even lower-tech solution).  The Mechwarrior could even accept the higher cockpit temperatures while in non-combat status, but arming weapons would switch the coolant suit to only draw from the ice pack instead of the Mech's coolant systems.

That is a far safer and smarter way to go about the situation, but less fun, crazy '80's cyberpunk.

[idea weenie]

It actually not all that fancy and doesn't require much upkeep.  Broviac/Hickman catheters have been a thing since the 70's. The paperwork for implanting one takes longer than the procedure itself.  Bio-occlusive dressings like the Tegaderm in the wiki picture aren't even necessary after a few weeks. There is a fibrous cuff on the tube, just inside the skin.  The skin grows into that fiber and makes for a very strong, and secure bond.
The only "upkeep" is to flush the line with about 3 cc's of saline and another 2-3 cc's of heparine, every few days to prevent a blood clot from plugging up the end.  That's assuming that you don't something spiffy like a self sealing valve that was invented in the '80's.

In our case, risk of infection is even lower because the catheter isn't going into the circulatory system.

But because game balance, the entry site should be susceptible to nasty infections, the rubber should decompose into a toxin that causes pathological fear of slow lorises, and there is always a risk that the thermo-regulation unit malfunctions and it cools you right into hypothermia!

Very nice

That is a far safer and smarter way to go about the situation, but less fun, crazy '80's cyberpunk.

Depends on your memory of the 80s and full-body outfits were like   >:D :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da_V5qfCFxE

[Vehrec]

The sane option for a cooling system would be to have a separate coolant/heater hooked up in the cockpit and a nice thick wall of aerogel insulation between the cockpit and any heat sources like sensors or the reactor.  Then you could have your liquid cooled suit or a nice air conditioner operate without constant input from the main weapons heat sinks.

This is the Society though, so we'll never fix that engineering problem if we can do it with crazy implanted tubes under the skin pumping freon around inside our pilots.

[Xeno426]

So, just realized there's no way to use either Null Sig or CLPS on aerospace. How about fixing that?


Aerospace Stealth System
Functions like either the NullSig or Chameleon. Generates 10 heat, requires a slot in each of the aerospace's locations. This system is incompatible with Vehicular Stealth Armor.
The system is incompatible with C3 systems (except the Nova CEWS), but is compatible with Targeting Computers. It is not compatible with Vehicular Stealth Armor.
BV is calculated the same as the Chameleon.
The system can be placed on an omnifighter, but it cannot be placed in an omni pod.

[Maingunnery]

So, just realized there's no way to use either Null Sig or CLPS on aerospace. How about fixing that?


Aerospace Stealth System
Functions like either the NullSig or Chameleon. Generates 10 heat, requires a slot in each of the aerospace's locations. This system is incompatible with Vehicular Stealth Armor.
The system is incompatible with C3 systems (except the Nova CEWS), but is compatible with Targeting Computers.
BV is calculated the same as the Chameleon.

Don't worry Vehicular Stealth can be used in ASF (AF in table on TO 280).

[Xeno426]

Don't worry Vehicular Stealth can be used in ASF (AF in table on TO 280).

Yep, but this requires the use of ECM and uses up the Armor slot.

With this system, you can still equip your aerospace fighter with FA or even FL armor.

[Maingunnery]

Yep, but this requires the use of ECM and uses up the Armor slot.

With this system, you can still equip your aerospace fighter with FA or even FL armor.

It is modular or must it be used as fixed equipment.

I had a similar idea, but it is modular and requires some weight.

Nova Stealth Suite
A stealth system that is as effective as the combination of Null Signature System & Chameleon Light Polarization Shield, from which it has been derived.
It is consists out of modular components (heat baffles, mimetic projectors and other components) and has to be linked to an mounted Nova CEWS.
The Nova Stealth Suite can be mounted on 'Mechs, Vehicles and Aerospace fighters. It takes up 6 crits/slots and requires additional weight.

Based upon WOR p.214. Concerning CLPS and Null-Sig:
"Improved versions using modern electronics seemed plausible, but unfeasible in the short term."

[Xeno426]

It is modular or must it be used as fixed equipment.

I had a similar idea, but it is modular and requires some weight.

Given  that other stealth systems aren't modular, I don't imagine this would be either.

Stealth systems tend to need a fully integrated approach to work, plus concerns for balance.

[Maingunnery]

My current state of equipment for my Society AU:

New Society Equipment
   One of the effects of our rebellion was that a lot of Society technology spread to the Homeworld and the Inner Sphere Clans. But thankfully at the beginning of the 32nd century our Society was sufficiently established to restart wide scale R&D, in an effort to regain the technological edge. Our infiltration of many local Clans, Houses and the Republic of the Sphere has helped to leap our own work forward.
   Many of our new units and weapons have left prototype stage and are now entering mass production. These units have capabilities that haven't been seen before and weapons that should give us the edge in any conflict that we can't avoid.


HEAVY WEAPONS AND EQUIPMENT

Endo-Steel, ProtoMech
Introduced: 3086?
Thanks to advancements in Endo-Steel processing and improvements to structure design, it became possible to implement Endo-Steel structure technology with ProtoMechs and Combat Vehicles.
Construction rules:  ProtoMech Endo-Steel takes up one torso slot in a ProtoMech, in both regular ProtoMechs and Ultraheavy ProtoMechs.

Endo-Steel, Vehicular
Introduced: 3095?
The development of Vehicular Endo-Steel is part of a program to enhance Society vehicle forces. This became only practical after the Society's advancements in Endo-Steel processing and innovations in structure design. However the complications of Vehicular Endo-Steel does make this relatively more expensive then regular Endo-Steel. 
Construction rules:  Takes up one equipment slot, in both for Combat Vehicles and Super-Heavy Combat Vehicles.

Modular Stealth System
Introduced: 3132
During the development of the Cephalus OmniMech the Society wanted to develop new stealth technologies. However nothing was ready for deployment when the Reavings began and the Society was forced to fall back on Null Signature System and Chameleon Light Polarization Shield technology. Further development, based upon various stealth and camouflage systems, was delayed until the 3120s. In comparison to most, the Modular Stealth System can be pod-mounted, it produces less heat and uses less internal space. But these advantages come at the cost of increased weight. Currently this experimental equipment isn't used in any standard variants or configurations, but is only incidentally used in customized units that are designed for special missions.
Game rules: The system provides all the benefits of the Null Signature System and the Chameleon Light Polarization Shield. When active it produces 8 points of heat. Any damage to it or the required CEWS will cause the system to turn off.
Construction rules:  The Modular Stealth System can only be used by 'Mechs, Fighters and Combat Vehicles. The system weights 1.5 tons and it requires the use of a CEWS (Nova or Watchdog) to function. The system take up 6 criticals in 'Mechs (1 per arm, leg and side torso). With Fighters it takes up 1 slot in each wing.  Vehicles must dedicate 1 slot in the front and rear locations to mount the system.
When calculating the BV of a unit equipped with a Modular Stealth System, double and add the long-range to-hit modifier, when calculating the unit’s Defensive Factor. But do not include the 8 points of heat generated by this system in all heat efficiency calculations.

Omni-ProtoMech
Introduced: 3086?
One of the longest running Society projects had been about improving and expanding omni-
technology. After a leap in omni-connector design and structure design, they were able to apply omni-technology to ProtoMechs.
Construction rules:  Omni-pods for Omni-ProtoMechs can contain weapons, equipment, heat sinks and jump jets. Constructing Omni-ProtoMechs follows the same relative rules as with OmniMechs for creating a base configuration and primary or alternate configurations. 


HEAVY WEAPONS AND EQUIPMENT DATA

Weapon/Item	Type	Heat	Damage	Range	Ammo	Intro	Cost	Battle Value	Weight (tons)	Space	Notes
Endo Steel, Vehicular	Structure	NA	NA	NA	NA	3086	3,200xTT	NA	TT : 20	P1
Endo Steel, ProtoMech	Structure	NA	NA	NA	NA	3095	3,200xTT	NA	TT : 20	CV1
Modular Stealth System	E	8	NA	NA	NA	3132	1,800,000	**	1.5	M6*, AF2, CV1	Requires CEWS

BATTLE ARMOR WEAPONS AND EQUIPMENT

Battle Armor Fusillade
Introduced: 3090
The original fusillade was a prototype weapon system used by the Hobgoblin ProtoMech. The poor performance of this system led it to to be regarded as a failure and it was quickly abandoned. The Fusillade missile system main problem was the severe lack of sufficient missile reloads for its considerable weight.
After more then a decade, the underlying technology was reused to develop an one-shot launcher for Battle Armor suits. This one-shot launcher can fire six ATM or iATM missiles of its choice, but without Artemis or Streak level of missile guidance assistance. The expectation is that the increased range or increased salvo damage will help make the sparse Society BA formations more effective and survivable.

Battle Armor Chassis with HarJel Repair System
Introduced: 3140
The wide spread adaption of the Surat BA suit in the Clans sent a clear signal to the Society that the Clan BA chassis was becoming outdated. Seeking to regain a significant advantage the Society began to research ways to improve the basic technology. Eventually improved Endo Steel processing and innovations with HarJel systems, allowed for the replacement of the old integrated HarJel sealing system for a HarJel Repair System. To allow for easy adaptation  of this technology the chassis are designed to be at an equal weight to the old chassis. 
 Although the down-scaled version can match the repair rate of the larger HarJel III system, it can't match its endurance. In an optimal situation it is limited to patching an amount of armor, that is equal, to the maximum amount that the chassis can mount.
Game rules: This chassis provides the same protections against armor breaches and bleeding as a normal Clan BA chassis. In addition to this, each turn a BA with this technology suffers armor damage, the unit will recover 4 points of armor protection during the following End Phase. A unit equipped with this technology automatically receives the Difficult to Maintain Design Quirk (see p. 198, SO).
Construction rules:  The repair system of improved Clan BA chassis is only compatible with Battle Armor that employ standard armor.


BATTLE ARMOR WEAPONS AND EQUIPMENT DATA

Weapon/Item	Type	Damage	Range	Modifier	Intro	Cost	Battle Value	WT (kg)	Slots	Notes
BA Fusillade	M	*	*	0	3090	100,000	11	180	2	Fires 6 ATM / iATM missiles
BA Chassis, HRS	Structure	NA	NA	NA	3140	x1.2	x1.2*	x1	x1

HEAVY WEAPONS AMMUNITION
Over the years the Society has put a lot of effort into reverse engineering Inner Sphere special ammunitions to make them available for Clan-grade weapons. These new munitions are more expensive then regular ammunition, but they allow for more tactical options without having to develop new weapons or new combat units. The engineering work on new ammunition also stimulated innovation for the development of completely new munitions, such as Arrow IV Torpedoes and chemical laser based ammo for Rotary ACs.
 
Arrow IV Torpedo
Underwater combat can be extremely hazardous, victory can easily be gained by firing first, which motivated the development of the Arrow IV Torpedo. Most of the new torpedo is identical to normal Clan Arrow artillery missiles and it can use the same launcher while underwater. The special feature is that it is equipped with an advanced supercavitation propulsion system, so that it can move at the same speed as normal artillery missiles.
Game Rules: Arrow IV Torpedoes may only be fired from or into a water hex of Depth 1 or greater, and  the attacker must trace LOS through water hexes (or maps) of Depth 1 or greater.

HAG (Dart)
The large number of small projectiles that a HAG fires allow them to be effective Flak weapons, but many users complain about the lack of stopping power. To address this the Society invented HAG Dart ammunition, these fire fewer but larger projectiles to focus damage, but at the expense of losing their flak advantage. Depending upon the size class of the Hyper Assault Gauss they will fire, two, three or four, large darts at hyper sonic speeds.
Game Rules: With Dart ammunition a HAG will divide its possible damage in 10 point damage projectiles. This means that a HAG-40 will have to roll on the weapon size 4 column of the cluster hit table.

iATM ER-Fusion missiles
The loss of many of their Combat WarShips has forced the Society to invest in nuclear weaponry. Their solution is to resort to nuclear fusion tipped iATM ER ammunition, this combines an extra range propulsion section with an advanced 0.05 Kiloton yield fusion warhead. These were specifically designed to be used in anti-ship strikes and for preventing capture of Society assets. These missiles are usually stored in high security vaults and are regarded as means of last resort. Each missile has an integrated security system, that will wreck the warhead if tampering or unauthorized use is detected.
Game Rules: Each hit of an iATM ER-Fusion missile is resolved as an 0.05 Kiloton nuclear detonation (IO, p.169).

ROTARY LASER AMMO
Rotary Laser ammunition consists out of delicate laser components and improved chemical laser fuel. Pioneered as a way to increase combat endurance for rotary autocannons, it is lighter and smaller then regular rounds. This allows a doubling of the number of rounds in an ammo bin, while also allowing for flawless rapid loading. However this moved the source of possible jamming to the exhaust, which consist out of the vaporized laser components and other toxic compounds, which take longer to leave the barrel.
Game Rules: The jamming modifier for rapid fire (TW, 114) is used in the turn after the weapon has been fired. The player has to choice between not using the weapon for a turn, or to fire the weapon with a risk of jamming. If the player decides to use other type of rotary ammunition in the subsequent turn, then the player must use the sum of both jamming modifiers.


HEAVY WEAPONS AMMUNITION DATA

Weapon/Item	Used By	Dmg Type	Damage	Ammo	To-Hit Mod	Intro	Cost	Ref	Notes
Arrow IV (Torpedo)	AIV	AE, M	**	x1	NA	3095	x1	TM 230
HAG (Dart)	HAG	C10, DB	**	x1	NA	3100	x1.5
HAG (MC)	HAG	AE, DB	**	x1	NA	3100	x4	TO 370	Mine-Clearance
IATM-ER (Fusion)	IATM, BAF	*	10/msl*	x1	NA	3090	x10	IO 170	Shame on you
RAC (Laser)	RAC	DE, R/C	**	x2	NA	3105	x5
RAC (Flak)	RAC	DB, F, R/C	**	x1	*	3105	x1.5	TO 352
RAC (Precision)	RAC	DB, R/C	**	x0.5	*	3105	x6	TM 208

** as weapon
* see rules

[Xeno426]

My current state of equipment for my Society AU:

Endo-Steel, ProtoMech
Introduced: 3086?
Thanks to advancements in Endo-Steel processing and improvements to structure design, it became possible to implement Endo-Steel structure technology with ProtoMechs and Combat Vehicles.
Construction rules:  ProtoMech Endo-Steel takes up one torso slot in a ProtoMech, in both regular ProtoMechs and Ultraheavy ProtoMechs.

Endo-Steel, Vehicular
Introduced: 3095?
The development of Vehicular Endo-Steel is part of a program to enhance Society vehicle forces. This became only practical after the Society's advancements in Endo-Steel processing and innovations in structure design. However the complications of Vehicular Endo-Steel does make this relatively more expensive then regular Endo-Steel. 
Construction rules:  Takes up one equipment slot, in both for Combat Vehicles and Super-Heavy Combat Vehicles.

Given how much stronger this makes vehicles, and how much of a boost it is over vehicles anyone else can field, I would suggest increasing the number of slots it takes up. Vehicles naturally have many slots, so increasing the slots vehicular endo steel makes it less of a no-brainer the way ferro fibrous is (especially for Clan FF).

Modular Stealth System
Introduced: 3132
During the development of the Cephalus OmniMech the Society wanted to develop new stealth technologies. However nothing was ready for deployment when the Reavings began and the Society was forced to fall back on Null Signature System and Chameleon Light Polarization Shield technology. Further development, based upon various stealth and camouflage systems, was delayed until the 3120s. In comparison to most, the Modular Stealth System can be pod-mounted, it produces less heat and uses less internal space. But these advantages come at the cost of increased weight. Currently this experimental equipment isn't used in any standard variants or configurations, but is only incidentally used in customized units that are designed for special missions.
Game rules: The system provides all the benefits of the Null Signature System and the Chameleon Light Polarization Shield. When active it produces 8 points of heat. Any damage to it or the required CEWS will cause the system to turn off.
Construction rules:  The Modular Stealth System can only be used by 'Mechs, Fighters and Combat Vehicles. The system weights 1.5 tons and it requires the use of a CEWS (Nova or Watchdog) to function. The system take up 6 criticals in 'Mechs (1 per arm, leg and side torso). With Fighters it takes up 1 slot in each wing.  Vehicles must dedicate 1 slot in the front and rear locations to mount the system.
When calculating the BV of a unit equipped with a Modular Stealth System, double and add the long-range to-hit modifier, when calculating the unit’s Defensive Factor. But do not include the 8 points of heat generated by this system in all heat efficiency calculations.

The problem with making stealth modular is that it removes design space for stealth mechs and units. If it can be slapped on any omni unit, that removes the special place a dedicated stealth unit would have. On a more biased note, I like the idea of stealth needing to be something that has to be integrated into a design, as this matches up with historical examples of stealth.

Omni-ProtoMech
Introduced: 3086?
One of the longest running Society projects had been about improving and expanding omni-
technology. After a leap in omni-connector design and structure design, they were able to apply omni-technology to ProtoMechs.
Construction rules:  Omni-pods for Omni-ProtoMechs can contain weapons, equipment, heat sinks and jump jets. Constructing Omni-ProtoMechs follows the same relative rules as with OmniMechs for creating a base configuration and primary or alternate configurations.

I definitely like this idea. Granted, I can see it reducing the overall number of possible protomech configurations by a wide margine, since there aren't a lot in the first place.

Battle Armor Fusillade
Introduced: 3090
The original fusillade was a prototype weapon system used by the Hobgoblin ProtoMech. The poor performance of this system led it to to be regarded as a failure and it was quickly abandoned. The Fusillade missile system main problem was the severe lack of sufficient missile reloads for its considerable weight.
After more then a decade, the underlying technology was reused to develop an one-shot launcher for Battle Armor suits. This one-shot launcher can fire six ATM or iATM missiles of its choice, but without Artemis or Streak level of missile guidance assistance. The expectation is that the increased range or increased salvo damage will help make the sparse Society BA formations more effective and survivable.

Given its rather light weight and low slots for such a powerful weapon (though one-shot) compared to contemporary one-shot weapons (Advanced SRM-6 or LRM-5), I would suggest increasing the slot and weight requirement and partially restoring the Artemis functionality (making it similar to the Advanced SRM). I mean, it's got only one shot, so best make it count.

Battle Armor Chassis with HarJel Repair System
Introduced: 3140
The wide spread adaption of the Surat BA suit in the Clans sent a clear signal to the Society that the Clan BA chassis was becoming outdated. Seeking to regain a significant advantage the Society began to research ways to improve the basic technology. Eventually improved Endo Steel processing and innovations with HarJel systems, allowed for the replacement of the old integrated HarJel sealing system for a HarJel Repair System. To allow for easy adaptation  of this technology the chassis are designed to be at an equal weight to the old chassis. 
 Although the down-scaled version can match the repair rate of the larger HarJel III system, it can't match its endurance. In an optimal situation it is limited to patching an amount of armor, that is equal, to the maximum amount that the chassis can mount.
Game rules: This chassis provides the same protections against armor breaches and bleeding as a normal Clan BA chassis. In addition to this, each turn a BA with this technology suffers armor damage, the unit will recover 4 points of armor protection during the following End Phase. A unit equipped with this technology automatically receives the Difficult to Maintain Design Quirk (see p. 198, SO).
Construction rules:  The repair system of improved Clan BA chassis is only compatible with Battle Armor that employ standard armor.

Like the idea, but recovering four points in the end phase seems quite excessive given that Harjel III only recovers two points. Consider toning it down.

Arrow IV Torpedo
Underwater combat can be extremely hazardous, victory can easily be gained by firing first, which motivated the development of the Arrow IV Torpedo. Most of the new torpedo is identical to normal Clan Arrow artillery missiles and it can use the same launcher while underwater. The special feature is that it is equipped with an advanced supercavitation propulsion system, so that it can move at the same speed as normal artillery missiles.
Game Rules: Arrow IV Torpedoes may only be fired from or into a water hex of Depth 1 or greater, and  the attacker must trace LOS through water hexes (or maps) of Depth 1 or greater.

I only suggest changing the name to "Arrow IV SCT" (for Supercavitating Torpedo). Supercavitation would allow the system to travel the necessary distance underwater.

HAG (Dart)
The large number of small projectiles that a HAG fires allow them to be effective Flak weapons, but many users complain about the lack of stopping power. To address this the Society invented HAG Dart ammunition, these fire fewer but larger projectiles to focus damage, but at the expense of losing their flak advantage. Depending upon the size class of the Hyper Assault Gauss they will fire, two, three or four, large darts at hyper sonic speeds.
Game Rules: With Dart ammunition a HAG will divide its possible damage in 10 point damage projectiles. This means that a HAG-40 will have to roll on the weapon size 4 column of the cluster hit table.

The only problem is that loading up a bigger round in the HAG would require a bigger barrel, which means a totally different weapon.

iATM ER-Fusion missiles
The loss of many of their Combat WarShips has forced the Society to invest in nuclear weaponry. Their solution is to resort to nuclear fusion tipped iATM ER ammunition, this combines an extra range propulsion section with an advanced 0.05 Kiloton yield fusion warhead. These were specifically designed to be used in anti-ship strikes and for preventing capture of Society assets. These missiles are usually stored in high security vaults and are regarded as means of last resort. Each missile has an integrated security system, that will wreck the warhead if tampering or unauthorized use is detected.
Game Rules: Each hit of an iATM ER-Fusion missile is resolved as an 0.05 Kiloton nuclear detonation (IO, p.169).

I'd suggest giving this round a penalty for hitting targets smaller than a certain size (e.g. less than 200 tonnes) to emphasis the idea that its use against ships. It can be fluffed as the need to sacrifice some of the guidance system to fit in the warhead. Otherwise you're making this weapon a flat upgrade of the regular ER round for all purposes, and there'd never be a reason to take any other round type except HE.

ROTARY LASER AMMO
Rotary Laser ammunition consists out of delicate laser components and improved chemical laser fuel. Pioneered as a way to increase combat endurance for rotary autocannons, it is lighter and smaller then regular rounds. This allows a doubling of the number of rounds in an ammo bin, while also allowing for flawless rapid loading. However this moved the source of possible jamming to the exhaust, which consist out of the vaporized laser components and other toxic compounds, which take longer to leave the barrel.
Game Rules: The jamming modifier for rapid fire (TW, 114) is used in the turn after the weapon has been fired. The player has to choice between not using the weapon for a turn, or to fire the weapon with a risk of jamming. If the player decides to use other type of rotary ammunition in the subsequent turn, then the player must use the sum of both jamming modifiers.

This... makes no sense. Even for the Society. Lasers require fundamentally different systems for use, even chemical lasers.


I've a few ideas to suggest of my own.

Fire Resistant Armor, Protomech
Prototype: 3110
Introduced: 3124
Protomechs are notoriously endangered by inferno rounds on the battlefield, something the Society learned during Uprising when facing less scrupulous Clans. To provide a potential solution, the Society's scientists looked to the systems already developed for their Salamander battle armor. The goal was to scale up the system used on Clan battle armor, and after years of research they succeeded.
Game Rules: Protomech Fire Resistant Armor functions like its BA equivalent, ignoring the damage of heat-causing weapons.
Construction Rules: Protomech Fire Resistant Armor weighs 65kg per point of armor and takes up a single slot in the protomech's Torso location.

Stealth Armor, Protomech
Introduced: 3131
Running originally in parallel to Fire Resistant Armor development, Protomech Stealth Armor was also based on a standard already found on Battle Armor. Scaling up the systems proved to be far more difficult than originally anticipated, and required a great deal of the protomech's internal systems to be used for the necessary cooling and countermeasure systems. However, the larger size of protomechs compared to battle armor meant that masking their signature completely from active probes proved impossible.
Game Rules: Protomech Stealth Armor functions equivalent to Battle Armor Stealth (Improved) armor (Range modifiers +1/+2/+3) with the caveat that it only cuts Active Probe detection range in half (round up).
Construction Rules: Stealth Armor weighs 70kg per point of armor and requires the use of one slot in each arm and the Torso.

[Maingunnery]

Given how much stronger this makes vehicles, and how much of a boost it is over vehicles anyone else can field, I would suggest increasing the number of slots it takes up. Vehicles naturally have many slots, so increasing the slots vehicular endo steel makes it less of a no-brainer the way ferro fibrous is (especially for Clan FF).

I would have to redesign some units, but it is no problem.
3 slots?

Given its rather light weight and low slots for such a powerful weapon (though one-shot) compared to contemporary one-shot weapons (Advanced SRM-6 or LRM-5), I would suggest increasing the slot and weight requirement and partially restoring the Artemis functionality (making it similar to the Advanced SRM). I mean, it's got only one shot, so best make it count.

I will check on how much weight/slot leeway I have and increase it.

Like the idea, but recovering four points in the end phase seems quite excessive given that Harjel III only recovers two points. Consider toning it down.

HRS II recovers 2 points and HRS III recovers 4. But I did do some playtesting based upon the II and in practice that didn't actually extend the longevity of BA under fire. I am open on alternative ways of functioning, as long as its allows for an extra turn of survival.
What about making it a manually operated single use system? "During the end turn a BA with HRS may trigger it to functionally restore destroyed armor. This system can only be used one time during battle, and its usage make the BA difficult to repair"

I only suggest changing the name to "Arrow IV SCT" (for Supercavitating Torpedo). Supercavitation would allow the system to travel the necessary distance underwater.

That is a better abbreviation.

The only problem is that loading up a bigger round in the HAG would require a bigger barrel, which means a totally different weapon.

Same diameter, but a dart instead of a sphere shaped projectile. This assumes that the Society had prepared some hidden leeway in the loader mechanism of HAG technology.

I'd suggest giving this round a penalty for hitting targets smaller than a certain size (e.g. less than 200 tonnes) to emphasis the idea that its use against ships. It can be fluffed as the need to sacrifice some of the guidance system to fit in the warhead. Otherwise you're making this weapon a flat upgrade of the regular ER round for all purposes, and there'd never be a reason to take any other round type except HE.

Good idea, definitely something that I should use.

This... makes no sense. Even for the Society. Lasers require fundamentally different systems for use, even chemical lasers.

I have looked into making different weapon systems, but in practice it is a massive headache. So I came up with the idea of having then entire lasering system be in the round (the RAC takes care of aiming, loading, venting and cooling). The required weight and space saving achieved through the use of, membrane thick, single use laser components.

I've a few ideas to suggest of my own.

Fire Resistant Armor, Protomech
Prototype: 3110
Introduced: 3124
Protomechs are notoriously endangered by inferno rounds on the battlefield, something the Society learned during Uprising when facing less scrupulous Clans. To provide a potential solution, the Society's scientists looked to the systems already developed for their Salamander battle armor. The goal was to scale up the system used on Clan battle armor, and after years of research they succeeded.
Game Rules: Protomech Fire Resistant Armor functions like its BA equivalent, ignoring the damage of heat-causing weapons.
Construction Rules: Protomech Fire Resistant Armor weighs 65kg per point of armor and takes up a single slot in the protomech's Torso location.

That should work well in combination with magnetic clamp protos, such as a Minotaur. 

Stealth Armor, Protomech
Introduced: 3131
Running originally in parallel to Fire Resistant Armor development, Protomech Stealth Armor was also based on a standard already found on Battle Armor. Scaling up the systems proved to be far more difficult than originally anticipated, and required a great deal of the protomech's internal systems to be used for the necessary cooling and countermeasure systems. However, the larger size of protomechs compared to battle armor meant that masking their signature completely from active probes proved impossible.
Game Rules: Protomech Stealth Armor functions equivalent to Battle Armor Stealth (Improved) armor (Range modifiers +1/+2/+3) with the caveat that it only cuts Active Probe detection range in half (round up).
Construction Rules: Stealth Armor weighs 70kg per point of armor and requires the use of one slot in each arm and the Torso.

That quite a lot of slot space, this would restrict its usage to quads and maingun using designs.

[Xeno426]

3 slots?

Yeah, I was thinking something like three slots would be good.

HRS II recovers 2 points and HRS III recovers 4. But I did do some playtesting based upon the II and in practice that didn't actually extend the longevity of BA under fire. I am open on alternative ways of functioning, as long as its allows for an extra turn of survival.

Hmm, according to Int Ops, page 201, BHJ2 repairs 1 per turn and BHJ3 recovers 2.
Making it a one-time use could still be workable, though. Even from an in-universe aspect this would greatly improve the lifespan of BA.

Same diameter, but a dart instead of a sphere shaped projectile. This assumes that the Society had prepared some hidden leeway in the loader mechanism of HAG technology.

The slugs for Gauss Rifles and HAG are already bullet shaped, not spherical. Dart shapes would make them thinner and longer, which make for good armor penetrators in today's military but not so much against BattleMech armor.

I have looked into making different weapon systems, but in practice it is a massive headache. So I came up with the idea of having then entire lasering system be in the round (the RAC takes care of aiming, loading, venting and cooling). The required weight and space saving achieved through the use of, membrane thick, single use laser components.

The entirety of the necessary components for a laser beam, including the chemical reaction and focusing unit, won't be contained in something the size of a ballistic round.
I mean, why not have laser UAC ammo, for that matter?

That quite a lot of slot space, this would restrict its usage to quads and maingun using designs.

Yeah, that's the idea. A protomech using the stealth armor needs to make some real sacrifices in terms of armament. The note about quads brings up a point I hadn't properly considered; what would be the slot restrictions on a quad protomech, since they don't have arms? I'd probably go with two Torso slots.

[Maingunnery]

Hmm, according to Int Ops, page 201, BHJ2 repairs 1 per turn and BHJ3 recovers 2.

That is the Battleforce section. On page 88, you see: "each turn a location protected by a HarJel repair system suffers armor damage, the unit will recover 2 points of armor protection in that location (4 for HarJel III) during the following End Phase."

Making it a one-time use could still be workable, though. Even from an in-universe aspect this would greatly improve the lifespan of BA.

Yep, making it a single use equipment, it will present an actual player dilemma of possible too soon or too late. :) 

The slugs for Gauss Rifles and HAG are already bullet shaped, not spherical. Dart shapes would make them thinner and longer, which make for good armor penetrators in today's military but not so much against BattleMech armor.

The HAG fires multiple projectiles of far lighter caliber from a canister see picture (TM, p223).
Compared to the other gauss weapons it has a very big inner diameter, this should allow it to load that canister at the base of the barrel and then allow the magnetic fields to pull the sub-munitions out into a wide hyper-sonic spray. The core concept of the dart was to have less but larger sub-munitions, I am willing to adjust the fluffed shapes.
 http://www.sarna.net/wiki/File:Hyper-assault_Gauss_Rifle.jpg

The entirety of the necessary components for a laser beam, including the chemical reaction and focusing unit, won't be contained in something the size of a ballistic round.

I am relying on having some functions being done by the RAC (cooling/aiming/loading/venting), size/mass reductions through expensive single use components and having the pressurized fuel section also function as optical cavity, this will of course explode after the laser beam exits the round.

I mean, why not have laser UAC ammo, for that matter?

Because the jamming of the UAC system doesn't originate from from its loading system, like with the RAC. I have thought about porting it to other AC systems but they don't need it was much as the RAC.

Yeah, that's the idea. A protomech using the stealth armor needs to make some real sacrifices in terms of armament. The note about quads brings up a point I hadn't properly considered; what would be the slot restrictions on a quad protomech, since they don't have arms? I'd probably go with two Torso slots.

I would keep the number of slots used the same between quads and bipeds.

[Vehrec]

Here's something that might be right up the Society's alley given their huge supply of Complete Newb Pilots.  Ripped from Poptarts Ninja's SA thread rebalance of the rules of the game in general, let's have some Targeting Computers Advanced Diagnostic Interpretation Computers!

Basic Targeting Computers Advanced Diagnostic Interpretation Computers set the user's gunnery to 3 unless it's better (and lets you shoot and make a melee attack without penalty, auto-pass running on concrete if you're not under fire, etc). They weigh 1 ton per weight class (1 ton for light 'Mechs, 4 tons for Assaults) which most weight classes can manage. Clanners tend to eschew them.

Advanced Targeting Computers Perfected Diagnostic Interpretation Computers do everything the basic computers do but also cap the enemy's max move mod at 2 (jumping still adds +1 to this). They weigh one ton more than the basic variety which is actually surprisingly difficult for a lot of weight classes to spring for when medium lasers weigh 2.5 tons and heat sinks are all singles.

Mediums have the easiest time picking up an advanced TarComp and get good benefit out of them since they can typically spare 3 tons and can probably expect to be light hunting at least some of the time, where an assault might not be willing to give up 5 tons when they can spend 3 on a Command Console/Dual Cockpit instead.

[Maingunnery]

Here's something that might be right up the Society's alley given their huge supply of Complete Newb Pilots.  Ripped from Poptarts Ninja's SA thread rebalance of the rules of the game in general, let's have some Targeting Computers Advanced Diagnostic Interpretation Computers!

Basic Targeting Computers Advanced Diagnostic Interpretation Computers set the user's gunnery to 3 unless it's better (and lets you shoot and make a melee attack without penalty, auto-pass running on concrete if you're not under fire, etc). They weigh 1 ton per weight class (1 ton for light 'Mechs, 4 tons for Assaults) which most weight classes can manage. Clanners tend to eschew them.

Advanced Targeting Computers Perfected Diagnostic Interpretation Computers do everything the basic computers do but also cap the enemy's max move mod at 2 (jumping still adds +1 to this). They weigh one ton more than the basic variety which is actually surprisingly difficult for a lot of weight classes to spring for when medium lasers weigh 2.5 tons and heat sinks are all singles.

Mediums have the easiest time picking up an advanced TarComp and get good benefit out of them since they can typically spare 3 tons and can probably expect to be light hunting at least some of the time, where an assault might not be willing to give up 5 tons when they can spend 3 on a Command Console/Dual Cockpit instead.

Is it some kind of podable drone-brain?

[Vehrec]

That's a no on 'podable', you need to build this into the Mech from the start-it's just too deeply integrated into too many systems to pop it in and out, like MASC or a Small Cockpit.

'Drone brain' is more debateable-it's an expert system, yes, but it's also one that needs a pilot, not a pure remote control system.  You can probably tell it to walk across the base, but not to unsafe the weapons and target whoever it detects when it gets there.  It's not a pilot replacement system, it's a pilot augmentation system, but once you hit the skill ceiling you don't need it anymore (unless you're hunting hovercraft or something)

[Maingunnery]

That's a no on 'podable', you need to build this into the Mech from the start-it's just too deeply integrated into too many systems to pop it in and out, like MASC or a Small Cockpit.

'Drone brain' is more debateable-it's an expert system, yes, but it's also one that needs a pilot, not a pure remote control system.  You can probably tell it to walk across the base, but not to unsafe the weapons and target whoever it detects when it gets there.  It's not a pilot replacement system, it's a pilot augmentation system, but once you hit the skill ceiling you don't need it anymore (unless you're hunting hovercraft or something)

I was thinking more about robotic drone brain then a remote drone.
As you describe it it would provide a minimum skill level for a lacking Mechwarrior, while having no control over the firing buttons.
In such a case I imagine that it would have to be configured for each pilot. 

[Retry]

Lots of neat ideas here.  Some are straightfoward but interesting nonetheless.

The Protomech and Vehicle Endo-steel and omni-protos are pretty straightfoward.  A modular stealth suite doesn't make much sense to me as I'd think a vehicle would have to be designed from the ground up to incorporate stealth technology to really make use out of it.

I don't agree with penalizing Vee ES just because it's generally better than FF from a tactical perspective.  Strategic repair, acquisition, maintenance, and cost concerns should be factored in, and ES needs to be made in orbital factories while FF does not.  Which doesn't matter much in a pick-up game of Smash-em-up but from a strategic perspective, if you play in that, can be significant considerations.  From the fluff, it also sounds like your iteration of Vee Endo-Steel is not compatible with Battlemech endo-steel, but the same would not be true with FF on vehicles and 'Mechs.  Giving it 3 crits instead of 1 crit mostly just penalizes lighter-end vehicles while doing little against heavier-end vehicles since the heavier stuff is swimming in crits, and they'll probably just solve the crit issue by consolidating their tonnage into heavier versions of weapons (going with a SRM-6 instead of a battery of SRM-2s, or an ATM-12 instead of a battery of ATM-3s, etc).  I'd like to see vehicle ES becoming a more general construction option than a Society exclusive, but that's just a personal preference.

BA fusillades & HarJel Repair: I would suggest modeling the HarJel Repair system after the II instead of the III, at least for the first version.  4 points of damage repair in one turn is more than half of a light BA's protection, for example.  The Fusillade is interesting, I've done something similar but went a different direction and made it a more general piece of equipment.

Arrow IV Torpedo: I like it.  I've done something similar to this too, albeit with slower torpedos.  The other guy's super-cavitating torpedo idea is interesting too, I might consider implementing that in some form in one of my own equipment packs.

HAG darts:I do believe the HAG is already fluffed to fire dart-like ammunition.

Fusion-ER missiles:Can't comment, never messed with them myself.

Rotary Laser Ammo:Can't wrap my head around it, just doesn't make sense to me.
An alternative way of going about improving RACs, if that's your goal, is to create a new weapon, the iRAC.  It could have improved stats of some sort and also ease the jamming problem by 1.Having a "grace" period of 1 or 2 turns where the iRAC doesn't jam regardless of firing rate, which it can return to by either withholding firing for 1 turn or lowering its fire rate, or 2.reducing the numbers to roll for a jam by 1 (so no jam on double-taps, jams on 2 for quad-taps, jams on 3 for six-taps), or a combination of the two.

------------------------------------------------------

Fire-resistant and stealth armor for Protomechs: Interesting ideas, space for the stealth armor seems excessive though, the builder will probably just compact their weapons into 1 "big" weapon and 1 small secondary like an ER Medium or big LRM launchers, instead of multiple small weapons to get around the crit space issue.

The targeting computers seem absurdly powerful, especially the 2nd one.

[idea weenie]

Here's something that might be right up the Society's alley given their huge supply of Complete Newb Pilots.  Ripped from Poptarts Ninja's SA thread rebalance of the rules of the game in general, let's have some Targeting Computers Advanced Diagnostic Interpretation Computers!

Basic Targeting Computers Advanced Diagnostic Interpretation Computers set the user's gunnery to 3 unless it's better (and lets you shoot and make a melee attack without penalty, auto-pass running on concrete if you're not under fire, etc). They weigh 1 ton per weight class (1 ton for light 'Mechs, 4 tons for Assaults) which most weight classes can manage. Clanners tend to eschew them.

Advanced Targeting Computers Perfected Diagnostic Interpretation Computers do everything the basic computers do but also cap the enemy's max move mod at 2 (jumping still adds +1 to this). They weigh one ton more than the basic variety which is actually surprisingly difficult for a lot of weight classes to spring for when medium lasers weigh 2.5 tons and heat sinks are all singles.

Mediums have the easiest time picking up an advanced TarComp and get good benefit out of them since they can typically spare 3 tons and can probably expect to be light hunting at least some of the time, where an assault might not be willing to give up 5 tons when they can spend 3 on a Command Console/Dual Cockpit instead.

Sounds a bit like the computers from "A Boy and his Tank".  Essentially the human operator of a tank did not drive or aim the guns, but instead was able to identify if a target was hostile.  Since the weapons are one-hit kills, firing your gun at the wrong target gives your position away, and an enemy tank can kill you.  The Society would put noob pilots in these Mechs and tell the Noobs not to press any of the other buttons, just the ones labeled as 'enemy' or 'next' depending on what the current image contained.

The drone brain would decide what weapons to fire depending on the target's range, current heat level, ammo capacity, likelihood of hitting, aso.  All the number crunching stuff is done by the drone brain, the clever stuff is done by the operator.

[Maingunnery]

I will check on how much weight/slot leeway I have and increase it.

For the BA fusillade, I managed to find enough room in my designs for 200 kg and 3 slots.


As for the Modular Stealth, would a combination of the following penalties make it acceptable?
- Further increase weight (from 1.5 tons to ??)
- Movement penalty (running or jumping disrupts the system)
- Sensitivity to enemy ECM (piloting rolls for stealth when in enemy ECM field)


As for the Laser ammo idea, I don't think I have explained the concept well.
Let me try again, see attached rough picture (normal round vs laser ammo cross section) for clarity.
  Red: Source of initial EM wave or field that triggers the chemicals to emit coherent light.   
  Green: Laser cavity filled with liquid laser chemicals. This will explode from overpressure after the chemicals have reacted.
  Blue: Fragile & minimalist lensing, that will survive just long enough to let one laser burst pass.

[Xeno426]

That is the Battleforce section. On page 88, you see: "each turn a location protected by a HarJel repair system suffers armor damage, the unit will recover 2 points of armor protection in that location (4 for HarJel III) during the following End Phase."
Yep, making it a single use equipment, it will present an actual player dilemma of possible too soon or too late. :) 

Woops, I was looking at the wrong spot.

The HAG fires multiple projectiles of far lighter caliber from a canister see picture (TM, p223).
Compared to the other gauss weapons it has a very big inner diameter, this should allow it to load that canister at the base of the barrel and then allow the magnetic fields to pull the sub-munitions out into a wide hyper-sonic spray. The core concept of the dart was to have less but larger sub-munitions, I am willing to adjust the fluffed shapes.
 http://www.sarna.net/wiki/File:Hyper-assault_Gauss_Rifle.jpg

Yeah, but notice that all gauss rounds are small than the barrel; such projectiles don't want to touch anything because that reduces round velocity and wears out the housing. Making the round much bigger means you're putting the gun at greater risk of the round itself impacting the walls of the barrel.
Increasing size would definitely have some notable drawbacks, probably similar to HVAC rules or vanilla UAC rules.

I am relying on having some functions being done by the RAC (cooling/aiming/loading/venting), size/mass reductions through expensive single use components and having the pressurized fuel section also function as optical cavity, this will of course explode after the laser beam exits the round.
Because the jamming of the UAC system doesn't originate from from its loading system, like with the RAC. I have thought about porting it to other AC systems but they don't need it was much as the RAC.

You're still talking about compressing all the components of a chemical laser into something that weighs less than 50 kg. Compared to a small chem laser, you're trying to compress 516 kg of stuff into 50kg of space, and none of the components of the RAC itself can be of much assistance in this because the fundamental system for firing is different. The firing mechanism, the barrel, the ejection system, none of that helps a chemical laser; everything the laser needs to fire needs to fit into a component 50kg big. At the very least, you're not getting range greater than that of a small chemical laser because there's not enough energy or focal length to support better range.

I would keep the number of slots used the same between quads and bipeds.

Good point.

Cargo train with hidden VTOL platforms
Oil-tanker with internal yard
Permanently air-borne fixed-wing base

So basically, Bond villain bases?
Shouldn't there be a factory in a volcano?  ;D

I'd like to see vehicle ES becoming a more general construction option than a Society exclusive, but that's just a personal preference.

I can see that eventually happening. I mean, Society remnants fleeing the Homeworlds are likely willing to make some powerful trades for protection, land and resources.

Arrow IV Torpedo: I like it.  I've done something similar to this too, albeit with slower torpedos.  The other guy's super-cavitating torpedo idea is interesting too, I might consider implementing that in some form in one of my own equipment packs.

I'm more than just "other guy". :(

Fire-resistant and stealth armor for Protomechs: Interesting ideas, space for the stealth armor seems excessive though, the builder will probably just compact their weapons into 1 "big" weapon and 1 small secondary like an ER Medium or big LRM launchers, instead of multiple small weapons to get around the crit space issue.

Yeah, it's a heavy penalty, but the bonus provided by BA Stealth Armor (Improved) is better than Chameleon LPS or NullSig (+1/+2/+3 rather than +0/+1/+2), plus I tend to err a bit more on the conservative side for custom rules. I imagine that if someone used the proto-ES as well, they could still make little murder machines. Imagine Boggart 2s with more jump jets and stealth.
I'd be open to ideas that reduce the number of slots used, but I don't think it should be less than two.

[Maingunnery]

Yeah, but notice that all gauss rounds are small than the barrel; such projectiles don't want to touch anything because that reduces round velocity and wears out the housing. Making the round much bigger means you're putting the gun at greater risk of the round itself impacting the walls of the barrel.
Increasing size would definitely have some notable drawbacks, probably similar to HVAC rules or vanilla UAC rules.

Anything that fits in that HAG loading canister isn't going to exceed the diameter ratio (projectile vs inner barrel) of the other gauss rifles. Also the magnetic fields should have a correcting influence.

You're still talking about compressing all the components of a chemical laser into something that weighs less than 50 kg. Compared to a small chem laser, you're trying to compress 516 kg of stuff into 50kg of space, and none of the components of the RAC itself can be of much assistance in this because the fundamental system for firing is different. The firing mechanism, the barrel, the ejection system, none of that helps a chemical laser; everything the laser needs to fire needs to fit into a component 50kg big. At the very least, you're not getting range greater than that of a small chemical laser because there's not enough energy or focal length to support better range.

But I don't need all the components.
Durability mass for repeated use -> not needed
Lenses and actuators for angular corrections -> not needed
Refueling mechanism -> Not needed
Venting mechanism -> I will allow it to explode
Heatsink mass to keep the components from overheating -> Not needed, is single use.

But I don't mind reducing the range of this ammo.
It would force the player to get in close to use it.

So basically, Bond villain bases?
Shouldn't there be a factory in a volcano?  ;D

What about a volcano factory? A mobile factory that makes volcano's, through producing & sending fusion powered drills into the planet's molten core.

[grimlock1]

Anything that fits in that HAG loading canister isn't going to exceed the diameter ratio (projectile vs inner barrel) of the other gauss rifles. Also the magnetic fields should have a correcting influence.

A gauss cannon uses a series of solenoids that alternately pull and push the projectile along.  If the projectile veers to one side, the coil in front of it would be inclined to pull it further off center.

As to canister shot, a the field of the solenoids is greatest closer to the coils, ie, the edges of the barrel. Small, free to move projectiles could pick up a radial velocity component and crash into the walls or later coils.  At the risk of retreading, the SB Gauss's cluster that separates near the target is a better bet at anything beyond 30-60 meters. 

I say that because I've always figured that LB-x "Cluster" ammo behaves more like flak.  A burst of projectiles that release their submunitions just before impact. That explains the same spread at 30 meters as at 300.

[Maingunnery]

A gauss cannon uses a series of solenoids that alternately pull and push the projectile along.  If the projectile veers to one side, the coil in front of it would be inclined to pull it further off center.

As to canister shot, a the field of the solenoids is greatest closer to the coils, ie, the edges of the barrel. Small, free to move projectiles could pick up a radial velocity component and crash into the walls or later coils.  At the risk of retreading, the SB Gauss's cluster that separates near the target is a better bet at anything beyond 30-60 meters. 

I say that because I've always figured that LB-x "Cluster" ammo behaves more like flak.  A burst of projectiles that release their submunitions just before impact. That explains the same spread at 30 meters as at 300.

Good point, I should assume that the HAGs just fire the entire canister, which then opens later with submunitions.

[Caedis Animus]

I feel like that whole "Laser ammo" for the RAC is a pretty stupid idea, frankly. A rotary Chemical Laser would be far better.

Firstly, you run into far less stumbling blocks than making an entirely new-radical, fundamentally flawed, form of ammunition that doesn't completely ignore all of the basic functions of an explicitly ballistic, casing-based weapon. The Society may have been resplendent with 'Mad Science', but even the most 'insane' of Society tech was not only viable, it was a logical extension of a preexisting technology.

I counter-propose a true rotary energy weapon; The Rotary Chemlaser, coming in small, medium, and heavy calibers, sharing range and damage profiles of the original Chemical Lasers with added tonnage and size.

Small Rotary Chemical Laser
Damage: 3/shot (Up to 6 shots)
Range (Min/Short/Medium/Long): 0/1/2/3
Heat: 1/shot (Up to 6 Shots)
Ammo Per Ton: 60
Critical Slots: 2
Tonnage: 2

Medium Rotary Chemical Laser
Damage: 5/shot (Up to 6 Shots)
Range (Min/Short/Medium/Long): 0/3/6/9)
Heat: 2/shot (Up to 6 shots)
Ammo Per Ton: 30
Critical Slots: 4
Tonnage: 6

Large Rotary Chemical Laser
Damage: 8/shot (Up to 6 shots)
Range (Min/Short/Medium/Long): 0/5/10/15
Heat: 6/shot (Up to 6 shots)
Ammo Per Ton: 12
Critical Slots: 6
Tonnage: 8

Now, the fluff reason for why the Medium and Large RCL's would have lower heat per shot than standard models would be due to a large air-cooling radiator system integral to the weapon, built into the 'barrels' of the RCLs. Small RCL's would lack these cooling systems strictly because it didn't benefit nearly as much as the Medium and large versions did. As for the ammo, the RCL ammo uses the same rules as standard chemical lasers-with the caveat of jamming on snake eyes.

[Maingunnery]

I feel like that whole "Laser ammo" for the RAC is a pretty stupid idea, frankly. A rotary Chemical Laser would be far better.

It is quite clear that it has no traction, so I am going to throw the Laser Ammo idea in the dustbin.

SRCL
Likely a decent point-defense weapon.

MRCL
Limited advantages, mostly reduced space requirements and reduced heat (Mechs).

LRCL
This is the good stuff, and I think that it would need about 5 tons of ammo per weapon. A bit much, but with these crits and tons, this would allow for an easy switch between it and a clan RAC/5. A trade between range and damage. Ontos IIC anyone? That would be just vicious.

[Xeno426]

Good point, I should assume that the HAGs just fire the entire canister, which then opens later with submunitions.

My thought was that the HAG fires individual small rounds rather than a single one (thus each "shot" includes a whole hell of a lot of iron going downrange), which is why the clusters are more favorable at close range than at far. It's basically a gauss rifle minigun.

This would be in contrast to the LBX or SB Gauss weapons, which fire a "flak" shell that explodes in a hemisphere right before striking the target (there are artillery rounds that do this today using a radio fuse to detect when they are close to the ground). This accounts for those weapon's cluster tables being completely unaffected by distance.

[Maingunnery]

My thought was that the HAG fires individual small rounds rather than a single one (thus each "shot" includes a whole hell of a lot of iron going downrange), which is why the clusters are more favorable at close range than at far. It's basically a gauss rifle minigun.

This would be in contrast to the LBX or SB Gauss weapons, which fire a "flak" shell that explodes in a hemisphere right before striking the target (there are artillery rounds that do this today using a radio fuse to detect when they are close to the ground). This accounts for those weapon's cluster tables being completely unaffected by distance.

The same result can likely be achieved if the canister opens after it leaves the barrel, while being much more mechanically simpler then the alternative.
So if normal HAG use birdshot, then I would need some buckshot now and then.

[Vehrec]

Here's more stolen tech from the SA thread, modified slightly.

Heat Resistant Armor  A derivative of Ferro-Lamellor armor and experiments with stealth armor, this odd-ball protective layer has 88% the protection of standard armor without the additional benefits of standard Ferro-lamellor-but it has large enough channels in it's material to allow coolant to circulate through the armor and to include a backing layer of aerogel.  This combines to not only give an additional 5 heat sink capacity (single) but is also immune to Flamers and plasma weapons heat-gain.  In addition, heat Resistant mechs are constantly dumping huge amounts of infrared energy into the environment, and deal damage to any infantry unit in the same hex equal to half it's heat (rounded down) starting at 5 heat, and in adjacent hexes starting at 15 heat, and can start fires if the hex it is standing in is flammable.

[grimlock1]

My thought was that the HAG fires individual small rounds rather than a single one (thus each "shot" includes a whole hell of a lot of iron going downrange), which is why the clusters are more favorable at close range than at far. It's basically a gauss rifle minigun.

This would be in contrast to the LBX or SB Gauss weapons, which fire a "flak" shell that explodes in a hemisphere right before striking the target (there are artillery rounds that do this today using a radio fuse to detect when they are close to the ground). This accounts for those weapon's cluster tables being completely unaffected by distance.

I don't have TM handy but the fluff on Sarna and in TW talks about the HAG being a smaller caliber, and rapid fire.  One explanation for the spread could simply be recoil. A HAG 20 has the same theoretical effect as an AC/20, but consumes 34 fewer kilos of ammo to do it.  Autocannons are fluffed has being packed with explosives, while gauss of any stripe are pure kinetic energy weapons.  Also, while a Hunchback gets 200 kilos lighter ever time it fires the big gun, how much of that is shell casings and propellant, and how much is projectile? 

Where I'm going is that I would expect a pure KE weapon like a gauss or rail gun to have muzzle speeds somewhere in the upper hypersonic range, mach 8-10, while a big autocannon might just be mach 4-5.  My point is that while the slugs for a HAG might be relatively small and light, they will have an obscene muzzle velocity, which translates into oodles of momentum, and thus recoil.

On the other hand, despite the art not quite matching up, if you picture a HAG as some descendant of a Gatling gun, they the spread can be explained by skewing the barrels slightly.  So barrel 1 fires straight, 2 fires a tad high, 3 shoots low, 4 aims straight again, 5 goes left and 6 goes right.  I think Phalanx CWIS does something like this. It makes sense for a surface to air system but not much for a surface to surface weapon.

[Xeno426]

So, my opinion on that alternate HAG round has moved to be rather desicively against it on balance grounds. 10 point clusters on a Flak weapon absolutely murders all but the heaviest aerospace fighters to such a degree it's not even funny. You're looking at a weapon that shoots flying targets at -3 (-4 if a TC is involed) that will Threshold just about anything shy of an 80 tonner. As an alternate ammo.

[Maingunnery]

So, my opinion on that alternate HAG round has moved to be rather desicively against it on balance grounds. 10 point clusters on a Flak weapon absolutely murders all but the heaviest aerospace fighters to such a degree it's not even funny. You're looking at a weapon that shoots flyinh targets ar -3 (-4 if a TC is involed) that will Threshold just about anything shy of an 80 tonner. As an alternate ammo.

Flak? No, it lost that aspect.

[grimlock1]

So, my opinion on that alternate HAG round has moved to be rather desicively against it on balance grounds. 10 point clusters on a Flak weapon absolutely murders all but the heaviest aerospace fighters to such a degree it's not even funny. You're looking at a weapon that shoots flyinh targets ar -3 (-4 if a TC is involed) that will Threshold just about anything shy of an 80 tonner. As an alternate ammo.

What about a cousin to precision ammo? 
HAG-20 becomes HAG-15, but long and medium ranges get a 1 point buff to the cluster roll?

[Caedis Animus]

What about a cousin to precision ammo? 
HAG-20 becomes HAG-15, but long and medium ranges get a 1 point buff to the cluster roll?

On a side note, that rather humorously reminds me of Titan Legion's (Titanfall 2) Precision ability, which reduces the amount of ammo per belt to be fired but drastically increases accuracy.

[Maingunnery]

Some RPG ideas, but my lack of AtoW experience shows....  :-\


FERAL SUICIDE PILL
The Feral Suicide Pill is a very potent but fatal cocktail of performance-enhancing drugs. Undercover agents can use these pills (or dental implants) to prevent capture or to allow the agent to achieve a critical objective. The pill forces an extreme boost to an users physical performance, but this reaction is so extremely destructive that it will kill them minutes after use. The chemical reaction will alter after the agent dies, quickly turning the bodily fluids into powerful acids and enzymes. This process will rapidly destroy the body, including the bones and any degradable items on their body.
Game Rules: Duration: 2D6 minutes (1 RPG turn = 5 seconds), followed by death. 
Notes: Ignore Fatigue; Ignore Injury modifiers; STR +5; WIL +5; RFL +5; INT –6*; CHA –6* (*To a minimum of 1).


PERFECTED MUTAGENIC VIROTHERAPY
The Society had to flee the Homeworlds in defeat, but much was learned from the conflict. The data and survivors from the rebellion were enough for the Society to perfect Mutagenic Virotherapy. This allowed the Society to stop the usage of traditional Phenotypes and, at least internally, abolish the Warrior Caste. Currently all Society personnel are tested to find their specific combat aptitudes and are offered compatible perfected mutagenic virotherapies, called Mutatypes. Only one Mutatype can be selected for implementation and they can't be passed down to offspring.

Berserker Mutatype
Users of the Berserker Mutatype are often nicknamed Hyper-Elementals. On the outside they look like regular Elementals, but on the inside their bodies aren't fully human, but use biological adaptations from all over known space. This allows them to match the performance of Pain Shunt, Full-Body Dermal Armor and Triple-Strength Myomer Implants. But with the side-effect of permanent sterility.
Notes: Equal to Pain Shunt, Full-Body Dermal Armor and Triple-Strength Myomer Implants. Toughness, Sterility

Gunslinger Mutatype
The Society sees the Gunslinger mutatype as a generalist option. It improves reflexes, general senses, dexterity, multi-tasking. However there is a significant downside to having the muscles and nerves optimized for speed and accuracy, as these adaptations will reduce the maximum amount of physical muscle strength that the user's body can produce.
Notes: RFL +2; DEX +2; STR -1; Traits: Good Vision, Good Hearing

Interface Mutatype
This mutatype enhances neural tissues to improved compatibility with neural implants, while also preventing deterioration of mental health, feedback damage and the negative side-effects of Feralize drugs. It is used by all Society ProtoMech pilots and most Mechwarriors. However researchers have noted an increased risk of interface addiction, in where users don't want to disconnect.
Notes: Immune to neural feedback and side-effects of feralize drugs; Traits:  Poison Resistance, Pain Resistance

Spacer Mutatype
Fully organic but based upon Belter adaptations, this Mutatype goes one step further in making people more compatible with the environment of space. It is mostly focused upon improving low-G, high-G tolerance, oxygen consumption control and temperature regulation. The notable side-effect of these adaptations is full body hair-loss, also known as Alopecia Universalis.
Notes: Trait: G-Tolerance,  Thick-Skinned, vacuum exposure protection (1hour).

[grimlock1]

Are rules for the Society's genetic tinkering covered anywhere but WoR?

[Xeno426]

Are rules for the Society's genetic tinkering covered anywhere but WoR?

Pretty sure virotherapies are in IO, maybe some stuff (or at least some similar stuff) is in the AtoW Supplement.

[grimlock1]

Pretty sure virotherapies are in IO, maybe some stuff (or at least some similar stuff) is in the AtoW Supplement.

No mention of mutation or virotherapy in IO. AToW Companion has a quick bit about gene manipulation, and a separate, more detailed section on mutations, but nothing specific to the Society.

Looks like I need to buy WoR...

[RevenVrake]

I had an idea hit me while building a society toy today.

What if the Society decided to try building their own version of a 'light' engine, but decided to radically change how it works...or rather, where it went.

Now, normally a larger than standard fusion engine pushes into the side torso. So the Society instead splits the engine into three parts and still manage to somehow make it work. It weighs 75% of a normal fusion engine, but the extra four crits are instead placed in the legs, rather than the side torsos.

This is a Clan take on the "Light" Engine, but more focused on survivability.

Thoughts?

[Dragon Cat]

No mention of mutation or virotherapy in IO. AToW Companion has a quick bit about gene manipulation, and a separate, more detailed section on mutations, but nothing specific to the Society.

Looks like I need to buy WoR...

You do it's a great book the supplement has more rules in it as well

[Maingunnery]

I had an idea hit me while building a society toy today.

What if the Society decided to try building their own version of a 'light' engine, but decided to radically change how it works...or rather, where it went.

Now, normally a larger than standard fusion engine pushes into the side torso. So the Society instead splits the engine into three parts and still manage to somehow make it work. It weighs 75% of a normal fusion engine, but the extra four crits are instead placed in the legs, rather than the side torsos.

This is a Clan take on the "Light" Engine, but more focused on survivability.

Thoughts?

What part of the engine would be in the legs.

I can imagine having small separate fusion engine in each leg, like a twisted version of a compact engine that only uses leg criticals.

[Xeno426]

Given how much more use the Society makes out of the Ultraheavy protomech designs, there should be a "Light Mech Bay" to compliment them.

Otherwise the Ultraheavy protomechs have to use regular mech bays, which is quite wasteful of the space.

[Retry]

I'd have thought a "Clan Light Fusion Engine" would be like an IS light engine but with only 1 crit per side torso.

[grimlock1]

One thing to remember about the Society is that they don't take input from their end users.  I keep thinking back to the "experts" in the 50's and 60's saying the "age of the dogfight is over.  From now on it's all missiles, all the time."  Then F-4 drivers got to meet the MiG-21 and they really missed having a gun.   On the other hand, these are some of the same experts who looked at the statistics from WWII and noticed that 90% of infantry combat was at less than 300 yards, and 95% or more was under 200. So does every soldier need a rifle that is effective out to 600 yards?  And through a long, twisted tale, this became the M-16.

My point is that new Society toys should be a mix of actually good and "sounds good on paper, so long as you've never carried a rifle."

[Xeno426]

One thing to remember about the Society is that they don't take input from their end users.  I keep thinking back to the "experts" in the 50's and 60's saying the "age of the dogfight is over.  From now on it's all missiles, all the time."  Then F-4 drivers got to meet the MiG-21 and they really missed having a gun.   On the other hand, these are some of the same experts who looked at the statistics from WWII and noticed that 90% of infantry combat was at less than 300 yards, and 95% or more was under 200. So does every soldier need a rifle that is effective out to 600 yards?  And through a long, twisted tale, this became the M-16.

My point is that new Society toys should be a mix of actually good and "sounds good on paper, so long as you've never carried a rifle."

Probably not the best example. The USN and USAF quickly moved to fix the issue, first with training (Red Flag and Top Gun), and then with internal guns on later aircraft (USAF got the F-4E in 1972, the USN got the F-14A in 1974).

Further, the MiG-21S family of aircraft (some of the first upgrades after the MiG-21F) also lacked guns, as did some of the late 50's MiG-19 variants. The idea of "missiles will replace the need for guns" was hardly a U.S. thing. The original Lightening had internal cannons, but were often faired over to reduce drag, and were completely removed in the F.3 variant.

And the M16 was actually a good rifle, it suffered in Vietnam due to a combination of no chrome coating in the receiver, a recent switch to a different (more corrosive) powder for the 5.56 ammunition, and a lack of proper gun maintenance on behalf of the troops.

Basically, everyone quickly took notice of actual combat experience and made moves to correct the issue, both by changing how crews were trained and in changing requirements for future aircraft.

[grimlock1]

Probably not the best example. The USN and USAF quickly moved to fix the issue, first with training (Red Flag and Top Gun), and then with internal guns on later aircraft (USAF got the F-4E in 1972, the USN got the F-14A in 1974).

Further, the MiG-21S family of aircraft (some of the first upgrades after the MiG-21F) also lacked guns, as did some of the late 50's MiG-19 variants. The idea of "missiles will replace the need for guns" was hardly a U.S. thing. The original Lightening had internal cannons, but were often faired over to reduce drag, and were completely removed in the F.3 variant.

Those are cases where the end user's feedback was received and acted upon. In the Society, there would be an awful lot of "You just aren't using the system properly," to overcome before the scientists listened.

And the M16 was actually a good rifle, it suffered in Vietnam due to a combination of no chrome coating in the receiver, a recent switch to a different (more corrosive) powder for the 5.56 ammunition, and a lack of proper gun maintenance on behalf of the troops.

I'm not sure if it was specifically that the WC ball powder was more corrosive or more prone to fouling than the IMR stick powder.  The change was made because the Army wanted better terminal ballistics, which meant higher muzzle velocity, which meant a different powder.  They could have gotten even better terminal ballistics if they stayed with the same powder and made some subtle changes to the actual bullet, but they didn't because reasons. At least according to the book I'm reading.

[Xeno426]

Those are cases where the end user's feedback was received and acted

Which is why I don't think it's the best comparison.

I see it more like Gladeon M. Barnes, but without an Armor Board to act as a sanity check.