Author Topic: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted  (Read 1194 times)

Hellraiser

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Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #30 on: 25 May 2024, 12:38:47 »
I only pulled the Spider out because I thought you didn't care for it.

I love the thing, awesome for objectives.  Ostscout-7J is also solid for the same job.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Nikodemius

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Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #31 on: 25 May 2024, 18:15:38 »
I did another thing - i pulled the Cicada out, put in a Mongoose instead, kept the Spider for objective reasons, and upped some Pilot Skill.

The Cics armor is so weak.. i dont know about it.. even the mong has thicker skin (yea no PPC too, but i dont feel very good with a "big" gun in a paper mech without jets when i know how much light strikers are gonna be used by opponents)

Anyway, uve had some great ideas and ill See how it all works out :)

Hellraiser

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Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #32 on: 25 May 2024, 19:05:02 »
The armor is less of an issue than the Maps your using.

I had it in there as a Mobile Sniper at 7/11 & an 18 hex gun, its going to be able to dictate range.

But, the one weakness is it needs room to maneuver into the back field on the flanks.

If the maps are too small then it can get cornered.

With your new set up though, 4 ML mechs moving 6+ speed you should be able to gang up on any stragglers that the enemy doesn't protect well.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Nikodemius

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Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #33 on: 03 June 2024, 10:18:21 »
Im a little bit in doubt about the Raven 3L with narc+tag/ecm/beagle - its just not fast to dodge very good, isnt armored much.. and afaik TAG only is helpfuö to the Raven, making it able to move/or at least shoot without having to stop moving /shooting for the indirect fire mod which is like, the spotter cant move or shoot..

Hmm.. dunno about the Ghost Target rules either yet..

Hellraiser

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Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #34 on: 03 June 2024, 12:18:55 »
The Raven-3L is one of the very few options you have for Standard Tech in the Era your playing in.

The TAG can be used to Spot for Indirect Fire from your Longbow/Catapult w/o having to NOT shoot your other weapons or suffer penalty.

NARC ammo in your LRM mechs will improve accuracy after you put a beacon on a target.

Again, one of the few ways you can get some "Standard" Tech into your game.

Play it safe, guard w/ other strikers, and let it improve the power of those LRM boats in the backrow.

The enemy should distracted by the Awesome/Hopper/Hunchie/Vindi that are your main battle line.

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Nikodemius

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Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #35 on: 03 June 2024, 12:51:34 »
Edit: actual setup below.


Theres one problem for the TAG, cause it Uses semi guided ammo to work efficiently which was released in 3053 so thats not even an Option to use for indirect fire. Narc is way worse than TAG cause it doesnt ignore target movement mods and LOS/Terrain

If i cant use semi guided, im in doubt to even use the longbow + Raven, even tho its good to have at least 1 LRM boat in the comp.

Btw there is no hunch anymore, remember we swapped that out for the Vulcan 5T, which is a good
mobile Bodyguard i think.



Mech/Model   BV   Skill   Mod   Tot BV

Longbow-8C   1,653   2*5   1.4   2314.2
Awesome-8Q   1,605   2*4   1.54   2471.7
Cataphract-1X   1,316   3*4   1.2   1579.2
Grasshopper-5N   1,511   3*4   1.32   1994.52
Catapult-C1   1,399   3*5   1.2   1678.8
Vindicator-1R   1,024   3*4   1.2   1352
Vulcan-5T   942   3*5   1.2   1130.4
Raven-3L   708   3*5   1.1   778.8
Spider-5V 514 4/5 622 BV
Mongoose-67   741   3*5   1.2   889.2
« Last Edit: 03 June 2024, 12:57:50 by Nikodemius »

Hellraiser

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Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #36 on: 03 June 2024, 12:55:56 »
Theres one problem for the TAG, cause it Uses semi guided ammo to work efficiently which was released in 3053 so thats not even an Option to use for indirect fire. Narc is way worse than TAG cause it doesnt ignore target movement mods and LOS/Terrain

If i cant use semi guided, im in doubt to even use the longbow + Raven, even tho its good to have at least 1 LRM boat in the comp.

Btw there is no hunch anymore, remember we swapped that out for the Vulcan 5T, which is a good mobile Bodyguard i think.

It's not about SG being better.  Get SG out of your mind.

Its about TAG & NARC still being useful compared to straight Intro Tech.
Shooting & TAGing for LRMs at the same time is still useful.
NARC bonus to cluster is still better than the enemy will be doing.
NARC'd units then don't even need the TAG to spot anymore since the Beacon allowed for IF w/o a spotter.

SG is totally cheesy and OP,  the TAG/NARC bonuses are much more balanced & yet will still give you an edge over a fully Intro Tech force.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Nikodemius

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Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #37 on: 03 June 2024, 13:08:54 »
But wait, what does TAG even do then if u dont use SG?

And doesnt NARC only function if u use narc Supported ammo for LRMs?

I dont have the rules for both to Look up.

Ur Raven is supposed to be a spotter for indirect fire, but standart LRMs dont home in on TAGed targets, do they?


So, Raven NARCs someone, LB hides behind a Mountain / without LOS, uses IF, LRMs Fly to the NARC target using usual modifiers, right?

TAG only removes the spotter-shooting mod for IF, yes?
« Last Edit: 03 June 2024, 13:21:07 by Nikodemius »

Hellraiser

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Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #38 on: 03 June 2024, 14:25:43 »
Someone feel free to correct me since I'm not reading the Rulebook & purely going from memory for these answers.


TAG + Standard LRMs  =  The TAG can be used to "Spot" for Indirect Fire similar to any other unit spotting for IF. 
BUT, you don't suffer the Penalty for Spotting while Moving &/or Having to Choose between Spot or Shoot.

Remove the idea of Homing in the way SG works, this is just normal "Spotting for IF" rules as if it was an Infantry Platoon or a Ferret Vtol doing the spotting for you.
Difference is it's an actual Combat unit, which normally you wouldn't use since you want to SHOOT w/ those, but TAG is allowing you to Spot & Shoot at the same time if you TAG it in the TAG Phase.


NARC on the other hand requires using NARC-LRM (or SRM) ammo, which can follow all the rules for Standard Missiles if the Target has NOT been NARC'd yet by the Beacon.

BUT, ONCE the Target has the NARC Pod attached to it, the LRMs (or SRMs) now get a +2 on the Cluster Roll AND they can use IF w/o any penalty at all since the Pod is acting as the Spotter w/o any Penalties attached.


Neither of these has the power of SG LRMs that are from another Era but they also don't cost you any BV & are still a leg up over basic Intro Tech options.

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Nikodemius

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Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #39 on: 03 June 2024, 15:36:22 »
Target Aquisition Gear
TAG
Extinct: 2835 (Inner Sphere)

Recovered: 3044 (Federated Commonwealth)

Though it built on techniques already centuries old in 2600, Grumman Industries’ Alloran In-Line target acquisition gear became the model for the artillery-spotting laser communications system today known simply by the acronym TAG. More than a simple infrared laser-based target designation system, the TAG system tied into the user’s on-board targeting and tracking systems and used its own integral tight-beam laser communications array to link into the receptive guidance systems of certain friendly artillery warheads and guided bombs.

When initially fielded, the Alloran In-Line worked in tandem with the AIL Arrow IV homing missile (also developed  by Grumman Industries). Lost during the early Succession Wars, this technology was finally recovered in the early 3030s by the Federated Suns, which began fielding the resurrected TAGs to assist in the targeting of laser-guided bombs. By the mid-3040s, the Capellan Confederation had returned the TAG to ‘Mech  use with their enhanced Raven design, which served as a spotter for the more recently recovered Arrow IV guided artillery on their Catapult refits. The Capellans’ decade-long alliance with the Free Worlds League in the 3050s later brought about the advent of the semi-guided missiles that also use TAG as an effective target designator, further expanding the utility of this venerable equipment.

Equipment class: Target Aquisition Gear
Rules
Tech Base: Inner Sphere (TAG only) and Clan (TAG and light TAG)

Unit Restrictions: No restrictions

Game Rules: TAG and light TAG may not be used if the unit is shut down or if its pilot/crew is otherwise prevented from acting.

Construction Rules: TAG and light TAG may be mounted on any applicable unit in accordance with the unit’s standard core construction rules.


 


Targeting acquisition gear designates (or “paints”) an enemy unit to be struck by another unit’s weapons. Instead of making a to-hit roll for TAG during the Weapon Attack Phase, all units needing to make TAG to-hit rolls do so after the end of the Movement Phase (Aerospace), but before the beginning of the Weapon Attack Phase (initiative is still followed, however). To use TAG equipment for target designation, calculate the tohit number as for a standard weapon attack. Unlike spotting for indirect LRM fire (see LRM Indirect Fire, p. 111), a unit can use TAG to

spot and make a weapon attack with no additional to-hit penalty. If the to-hit roll fails (meaning the TAG spotter fails to designate the target), TAG has no further effect. If the to-hit roll is successful, the system designates the target for that turn’s Weapon Attack Phase; the target unit is designated for any number of attacks from any number of units using TAG. A TAG system cannot designate infantry, but can designate any other target, such as a building or other hex and so on (see Target, p. 42 of Playing the Game).

ProtoMechs: The five ProtoMechs of a ProtoMech Point may  declare different targets for any mounted TAGs. For example, if all the ProtoMechs in a ProtoMech Point mounted a TAG, they could declare up to five different targets with TAG in the same turn.





Soooo thats what MechFactory (?) app says.


Do i read that right?

A target is designated for any number of attacks by units using TAG

This doesnt mean, a longbow needs to have TAG itself aswell, but just "uses" the TAG provided by the Raven, right?
« Last Edit: 03 June 2024, 15:39:43 by Nikodemius »

Hellraiser

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Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #40 on: 03 June 2024, 16:02:59 »
No.

It's bad wording, it means any # of units can target it BY using that TAGs designator.

IE, It's not limited to just 1 unit.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Nikodemius

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Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #41 on: 03 June 2024, 16:41:14 »
Sooo.. do u think the Raven is worth the try to combine with the LB?

Ill try and See what it can do with such limited Mobility/armor

Hellraiser

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Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #42 on: 03 June 2024, 18:50:07 »
You have more than the Longbow, you also have the Catapult.

Between them that is 80 LRMs coming in every turn.

A boost to IF & cluster rolls is nothing to sneeze at.

But you will want to protect it.

Raven isn't a speedster nor is it an armored striker, its your Recon/Support unit.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Nikodemius

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Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #43 on: 04 June 2024, 01:15:31 »
Yeah, but u only get to field 4 mechs at a scenario, so i wonder how that would be like utilizing the Raven the most.. like.. LB, (any Bodyguard/mid range brawler), Cat + Raven

Or just one LRM boat and be like..

If u dont field LB, u put Awesome there,
Then
U go Cat for LRMs
+ Raven + anything else to Bodyguard/brawl

Tricky xD

Hellraiser

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Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #44 on: 04 June 2024, 14:02:30 »
Yeah, but u only get to field 4 mechs at a scenario
Ah, I see, this is the first I'm reading for this.

Are they always the same BV for every scenario?

Or are some clearly designed as High BV heavy brawling & others a low BV Scouting?

If its the same BV then yeah, I'd use the Raven paired w/ Longbow & then a fast escort for the Raven & a mid ranged brawler like the Hopper/Vindi

If on the other had the BV varies then your even better off because the Raven electronics might be able to do things a simple Locust can't do & I'd include it in a Recon Group.

Meanwhile if you have a mission where the goal is to destroy some building or other objective then you might even consider pairing it with both the Longbow & Catapult & have the 2 of them barely get on the board & take out the target w/o ever seeing it through massed LRMs from 21 hexes or w/ IF by NARCing the Target first.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Nikodemius

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Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #45 on: 05 June 2024, 04:31:19 »
https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/dfa-wargaming.appspot.com/o/public_files%2FDFA%20Missions%20v6.0.pdf?alt=media&token=305edd1a-9858-425f-a97e-13fdd9be94b1

These are the possible Missions, we are gonna play 6 put of those by rng I think. I dunno about Terrain yet or if its pre-set by scenario.

I dont think a scenario Limits BV in an way.



Nikodemius

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Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #46 on: 05 June 2024, 04:36:32 »
All i know of the other 3 players is the DC players setup:

Pretty scary if u ask me / opted for killing stuff.


Im curious about the other 2, one is Steiner.. so he might fill the 15k BV with as much Atlas' he can, lol.
« Last Edit: 05 June 2024, 04:39:41 by Nikodemius »

Hellraiser

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Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #47 on: 05 June 2024, 14:43:25 »
All i know of the other 3 players is the DC players setup:

Pretty scary if u ask me / opted for killing stuff.
I can't see the 5th mech, but nothing there is too scary.
A mix of Heavy/Assault up top that is quite diverse w/ the Charger in there.
And the bottom is a solid 5 options to make up Striker/Recon forces.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Nikodemius

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Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #48 on: 05 June 2024, 15:48:23 »
The 5th is Thunderbolt 5S at 3/4

He runs some PPCs and his mid range is scary

Hatamoto even runs med pulses, so ill keep the lights away from that thing.. it runs hot tho with just 19 sinkt i guess.

Imma Utilize IF as long as the raven lives and if its killed i just swap to direct LRM fire.

Depending on Terrain/Situation tho. Id like the +2 to Clusters.

I wonder how good IF might be at long LRM Range

Thinking about either Putting the LB next to mid-LRM range in Cover next to an objetive if there is only one

Or just Start raining from long range,even tho the first shot usually misses