Author Topic: Preferred VTOL for multiple roles in a Lance.  (Read 4044 times)

Cybertec

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Preferred VTOL for multiple roles in a Lance.
« on: 23 May 2020, 19:39:54 »
Hello all,
I wanted to tap into the BT hive mind to get a recommendation for a VTOL unit to include in a Recon Lance. I want it to cover three roles.
1. Possible gunship. (Death by papercuts. 😜)
2. Spotting targets.
3. Infantry/BA transport.

I know Jack of all trades, master of none, but I want to keep my options available .
Era nonessential . For a Merc unit.
« Last Edit: 23 May 2020, 19:41:48 by Cybertec »
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Re: Preferred VTOL for multiple roles in a Lance.
« Reply #1 on: 23 May 2020, 19:57:27 »
Pinto? The WoB variant has a six ton bay and an MML 5 with plenty of speed

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Daryk

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Re: Preferred VTOL for multiple roles in a Lance.
« Reply #2 on: 23 May 2020, 20:05:09 »
If by "possible", you mean "OK if not a gunship", the Ferret is probably your go to choice.

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Re: Preferred VTOL for multiple roles in a Lance.
« Reply #3 on: 23 May 2020, 20:06:31 »
The ferret falls short in the BA transport requirement unless you’re running one suit squads

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Daryk

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Re: Preferred VTOL for multiple roles in a Lance.
« Reply #4 on: 23 May 2020, 20:08:43 »
Or you use PA(L)...

worktroll

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Re: Preferred VTOL for multiple roles in a Lance.
« Reply #5 on: 23 May 2020, 20:18:41 »
The Warrior H-10 has a 5-ton bay, and a pair of MG. The Cavalry Infantry has a 4-ton bay, and three ERML.

I'd go the Warrior. You don't want them getting delusions of getting into combat. But the Cavalry can get shot down performing fire support :)
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Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Preferred VTOL for multiple roles in a Lance.
« Reply #6 on: 23 May 2020, 20:25:04 »
From 3097 on, Defiance's DI Multipurpose VTOL from TRO 3145 LyrCom takes the cake. LPPC, TAG, Beagle Probe, and 4 ton infantry compartment on a 25 ton VTOL that moves 9/14 and has solid armor (for a VTOL).  There's also a Gunship variant that drops the infantry compartment and electronics for an MML7, but it sounds like you're going to want the infantry space and TAG more.


The earlier (3080) Cavalry Infiltrator from Davion space is pretty good too.  It's from TRO Prototypes, and is the production version of the CADENCE RAIN version from XTRO: Davion.  Only carries a pair of MagShots for armament (they are in a chin turret), but it does have a 4 ton infantry bay, Guardian ECM, a decent coat of stealth armor, and moves 10/15(20) thanks to a Jet Booster.  The Prototype CADENCE RAIN version drops the chin turret for a third MagShot, if you prefer (and can find some somewhere).
« Last Edit: 23 May 2020, 20:34:32 by Arkansas Warrior »
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Cybertec

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Re: Preferred VTOL for multiple roles in a Lance.
« Reply #7 on: 24 May 2020, 08:48:47 »
 :)

Thank you for your input. I have no practical playing experience with VTOLs other then a Karnof transporting BA. (which was shot down after dropping the kids off at the pool/objective )

Fire up the PC and MM! Papa needs to practice !
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StoneRhino

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Re: Preferred VTOL for multiple roles in a Lance.
« Reply #8 on: 25 May 2020, 02:53:40 »
There is a problem with the request since you are asking for just about everything that a VTOL can do, but VTOLs are probably the most limited of vehicles. By that I mean they need to be focused upon a particular role, but you are asking for a vtol that does it all.

If you want a gunship you can go with a Yellowjacket, it has a gauss rifle so there isn't a much bigger gun that it could get. If it could then it's going to lose range, which increases it's chances of being knocked out since it is the slowest VTOL i have seen.

If you want the same range as the Yellow jacket, but want speed, then the Hawkmoth is a good option. It has the range, but only half the damage with its light gauss rifle.

There is another higher tech option in the Warrior HX9 that has stealth armor and a very long range HVAC2. BV wise its rather cheap, its fast and has a booster pushing it's speed up to 20MP.  The armor is lighter then the others, but if you use it right then its not going to be in the range of most weapons and anything that is in range is going to have a hard time hitting it, with a likely 12 to hit without the vtol even moving. Yes, the HVAC has a chance to blow its self up, but for that range its worth the risk if you can poke at high value vehicles before they get into range of your other units.

But back to your problem, you're better off splitting up the roles and getting different vtols. You can't really gunship and paper cut things to death if you're being blown out of the sky. This means that you need to stay out of the range of as many weapons as possible. That forces a choice between being a gunship and a troop transport since you will need to close with opposing units to drop them off in most cases. For me, a transport needs to be able to move since I'm dropping the infantry on top of the target so that it can perform an anti-mech attack next turn. If you are using infantry in a far less aggressive role and the opposing player has little to no presence in the area you are dropping the infantry then you can still gunship. However, its not something you should count on unless you are willing to forgo using the infantry if there is no big opening on the other players side of the map. Also, keep in mind that your gunship needs tonnage for the gun, armor, engine, and the infantry bay. That is asking a lot from a vehicle that has a 30 ton maximum.

If you are going to use the VTOL for spotting then its best to use one that is not flanking. If you can get away with sitting still then that would be best. The problem you will have is the modifier for spotting while also firing. This reduces the effectiveness of your gunship. Something like a dirt cheap Ferret would perform the role without reducing the gunship's effectiveness. BV and cbill wise it is cheap as can be.

Your request is basically on par with asking for a mech that has the most armor possible, the best ranged weapons, and high mobility. You're better off with a fast transport that is able to focus on getting to the destination while another vtol focuses upon shooting stuff and avoiding return fire. If one is shot down then at last you have the other still going.

Colt Ward

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Re: Preferred VTOL for multiple roles in a Lance.
« Reply #9 on: 26 May 2020, 10:13:06 »
You could use the Taurian's Hind- er, Lamprey! VTOL . . .


Available in 3100 with two SRM4, MG, and 4t cargo bay that moves . . . 9/14 or 10/15?  I cannot remember which speed it covers.  With 5.5t of (std?) armor, SFE, and a rugged design its supposed to be decently priced, logistically flexible, and easy to fly that had the TC exporting a lot.  I would like to see either a refit kit or new model with a better armor and MMLs.

I prefer the DA art, its one of the few times I think Plog missed the mark . . . While originally it looked like the hind, his art looks more like Vietnam era Jolly Green mixed with a design that extends the blades away from the craft's body.  I have at least a lance of these in Steel Wolves colors, one sits on my shelf.  I think this one is a Highlander?  Maybe Capellan machine.

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Daryk

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Re: Preferred VTOL for multiple roles in a Lance.
« Reply #10 on: 26 May 2020, 16:56:06 »
My first thought looking at Plog's version was "H-3"?? Nah...  ::)

Seriously, given the excellent work he's done for me, I blame whoever was giving him art direction for that one...

worktroll

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Re: Preferred VTOL for multiple roles in a Lance.
« Reply #11 on: 26 May 2020, 17:23:21 »
The direction may well have been "Don't make it so blatantly a Hind ripoff ..."
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Re: Preferred VTOL for multiple roles in a Lance.
« Reply #12 on: 26 May 2020, 17:30:07 »
I think he would have done better with that level of direction, honestly.  Seriously, he's done REALLY good stuff for me.

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Re: Preferred VTOL for multiple roles in a Lance.
« Reply #13 on: 26 May 2020, 20:20:16 »
After comparing, I also prefer the Balac's MWDA art- it was in a number of their wallpapers- than what CGL did . . . though both versions look good, I think the MWDA looks meaner and is unlike some of what exists IRL.
Colt Ward
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Wolf72

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Re: Preferred VTOL for multiple roles in a Lance.
« Reply #14 on: 26 May 2020, 20:22:27 »
initially I really liked the range of HVACs.

made a few cheap designs meant to get pot shots in here and there, then read some critiques of the weapon.

I did 3 different rolling sessions, the farthest I got was 9 rolls before an ammo explosion.  So now they're just an awesome infantry field gun.

It's hard to get up to Gauss Rifle damage level, but you could go ER PPC, meh NM only like 4-5 tons less (7+5 HS=12) ... enough to get a solid BA compartment in there. (Clan ER LL ftw!)
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Re: Preferred VTOL for multiple roles in a Lance.
« Reply #15 on: 26 May 2020, 20:27:41 »
I second the Hind.... er... Lamprey. Comes as close as you can get to fulfilling OP’s requests.
I actually really like the TRO art that gives it a bit of a Jolly Green Giant look, it actually looks like it can carry a infantry unit.


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Re: Preferred VTOL for multiple roles in a Lance.
« Reply #16 on: 26 May 2020, 20:36:56 »
I second the Hind.... er... Lamprey. Comes as close as you can get to fulfilling OP’s requests.
I actually really like the TRO art that gives it a bit of a Jolly Green Giant look, it actually looks like it can carry a infantry unit.

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Colt Ward

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Re: Preferred VTOL for multiple roles in a Lance.
« Reply #17 on: 26 May 2020, 20:42:19 »
Its hard to see in the mini I posted, but the 4 windows?  Its part of the MWDA design already . . . its a no joke elongated Hind.
Colt Ward
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Cybertec

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Re: Preferred VTOL for multiple roles in a Lance.
« Reply #18 on: 27 May 2020, 11:49:41 »
Still testing out various VTOLs on Megamek. Out of six playthroughs, only four were viable.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Preferred VTOL for multiple roles in a Lance.
« Reply #19 on: 27 May 2020, 12:50:03 »
You should also keep in mind that you can mount RL pods externally on your VTOLs . . . so its not restricted to just their on board armament for the gunship role.  I do not recall what ends up as the load, but that is a big LZ clearing punch you can throw in one salvo.

Honestly, having ridden in several helicopters- Blackhawks (oh dear God, over Lake Ponchatrain- stop remembering all the helo failure stories!) and a Chinook . . . its not the width or the depth that would cause problems carrying BA, its the height of the suit.  A Chinook can carry . . . 50? combat loaded troops uncomfortably, there is a technique for it lol.  The Karnov/Anhur is more like the Osprey which can carry even more . . . but its the height of some models that would pose problems- and its more about quickly egressing.
Colt Ward
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"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

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Re: Preferred VTOL for multiple roles in a Lance.
« Reply #20 on: 27 May 2020, 17:29:26 »
BA at least have the option of egressing through the skin of the ship...  ^-^

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Re: Preferred VTOL for multiple roles in a Lance.
« Reply #21 on: 27 May 2020, 18:00:36 »
You should also keep in mind that you can mount RL pods externally on your VTOLs . . . so its not restricted to just their on board armament for the gunship role.  I do not recall what ends up as the load, but that is a big LZ clearing punch you can throw in one salvo.
Losing 1 MP per pod is pretty painful, though.

worktroll

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Re: Preferred VTOL for multiple roles in a Lance.
« Reply #22 on: 27 May 2020, 18:09:45 »
Still testing out various VTOLs on Megamek. Out of six playthroughs, only four were viable.
Quick! To the Batcave! There's detective work to be done! 😆

So which ones have you tested, and which ones have failed so far?
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Re: Preferred VTOL for multiple roles in a Lance.
« Reply #23 on: 27 May 2020, 18:15:33 »
1. Possible gunship. (Death by papercuts. 😜)
2. Spotting targets.
3. Infantry/BA transport.


http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/503/cavalry-attack-helicopter-infantry

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Colt Ward

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Re: Preferred VTOL for multiple roles in a Lance.
« Reply #24 on: 27 May 2020, 19:13:00 »
Losing 1 MP per pod is pretty painful, though.

For a 13/20 design?  Never looked at it closely, they use something like the old AT bomb rules where thrust determined load?
Colt Ward
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"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Wolf72

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Re: Preferred VTOL for multiple roles in a Lance.
« Reply #25 on: 27 May 2020, 19:21:02 »
so my craptacular 400 BV (400.1 actually, I don't want to round up!  :( ) Primitive votl moving 5/8 would not be a good candidate for any pods.  (I got a H.rifle and 2 MGs on it at least).
« Last Edit: 27 May 2020, 21:44:50 by Wolf72 »
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Re: Preferred VTOL for multiple roles in a Lance.
« Reply #26 on: 27 May 2020, 19:34:45 »
For a 13/20 design?  Never looked at it closely, they use something like the old AT bomb rules where thrust determined load?
It's not too bad on a 13/20 if you're only packing one thing like a TAG, I was thinking more of the "normal" sized choppers like Warriors (9/14) and Cavalries (10/15).  Losing even 1 MP is a big penalty for those, even if it's just temporary.  Put a full payload and you lose half your speed.

I don't know what the old AT bomb rules are, but current VTOL rules, you lose 1 MP per bomb or equivalent on the VTOL.

Colt Ward

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Re: Preferred VTOL for multiple roles in a Lance.
« Reply #27 on: 27 May 2020, 20:57:07 »
Like I said, its a one strike weapon . . . sort of the same deal as the Longinus SRMs . . . but I would use it in a situation on MM more likely, where I have DB and can use NoE to hide a slower chopper until it can dump the RLs into a target.  But for something like the Lamprey which is either 9/14 or 10/15 moving the troops to the drop at 8/12 or 7/11 to be able to hit something with 20 missiles on top of SRMs is not a bad situation.
Colt Ward
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"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

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Re: Preferred VTOL for multiple roles in a Lance.
« Reply #28 on: 28 May 2020, 12:33:51 »
Is Pod Mounting a TAG an option for -1 MP ?

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Colt Ward

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Re: Preferred VTOL for multiple roles in a Lance.
« Reply #29 on: 28 May 2020, 13:00:04 »
Well . . . by fiction, it can be mounted on ASF IIRC . . . so I would expect yes?
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."