Author Topic: A tough to kill 100 ton IS Mech (Read 3090 times)

bblaney · « **on:** 09 April 2019, 08:32:59 »

Ok, so I am trying to design a hard to kill 100 ton IS mech and can't figure out what way to go.

It is a Capellan design and I am naming it the Shan Long, Iron Dragon.

How would you go about designing this design?

The era is Dark Ages and around the year 3120+

This is what I have so far, I'd love some input and if you want designs that you think may work better.

Thanks!!!!!

Shan Long SNL-1O Mass: 100 tons Tech Base: Inner Sphere Chassis Config: Biped Rules Level: Experimental Tech Era: Dark Ages Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E-A Production Year: 3127 Cost: 19,184,000 C-Bills Battle Value: 1,482 Chassis: Unknown Reinforced Power Plant: Unknown 300 Light Fusion Engine Walking Speed: 32.4 km/h Maximum Speed: 54.0 km/h Jump Jets: None Jump Capacity: 0 meters Armor: Unknown Ferro-Fibrous Armament: None Pod Space: 39 tons Manufacturer: Unknown Primary Factory: Unknown Communications System: Unknown Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown ================================================================================ Equipment Type Rating Mass -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Internal Structure: Reinforced 152 points 20.00 Engine: Light Fusion Engine 300 14.50 Walking MP: 3 Running MP: 5 Jumping MP: 0 Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 12(24) 2.00 Gyro: Compact 4.50 Cockpit: Standard 3.00 Actuators: L: SH+UA R: SH+UA Armor: Ferro-Fibrous AV - 304 17.00 Armor Locations: 3 LT, 3 RT, 2 LA, 2 RA, 2 LL, 2 RL Internal Armor Structure Factor Head 3 9 Center Torso 31 48 Center Torso (rear) 13 L/R Torso 21 31 L/R Torso (rear) 11 L/R Arm 17 33 L/R Leg 21 42

packhntr · « **Reply #1 on:** 09 April 2019, 09:20:49 »

Make it speed of 2/3(2), reinforced internal structure, hardened armor (38.5t), compact engine, compact armored gyro, armored cockpit. Not a lot of tonnage left for weapons, but a total pain to kill.

Caedis Animus · « **Reply #2 on:** 09 April 2019, 18:36:05 »

I'd make that cockpit torso-mounted and make it a quad as well.

Sabelkatten · « **Reply #3 on:** 10 April 2019, 02:28:46 »

Armored torso cockpit on a quad is the way to go, especially with reinforced structure. Incidentally you should only use reinforced structure if it's an omnimech, otherwise ES+hardened armor is a much better deal.

Hptm. Streiger · « **Reply #4 on:** 10 April 2019, 02:57:19 »

Well the issue with this iron dragon is that it will fail by critical hits.
reinforced structure is great when you don't have locations that cannot be critted - reinforced structure on a 100t mech will soak up more damage then your components can keep.
I think a light mech will have more usage of reinforced structure, then a heavier mech.

Also, it's better to not get hit rather than soak up damage - so maybe the average BattleMaster might live longer compared to the Iron Dragon. Of course, you can apply the mentioned sloth/turtle - 2/3(2) is a better option than 3/5.

Maybe you should simulate some fights to know for sure.

Cyk0 · « **Reply #5 on:** 10 April 2019, 06:18:26 »

There are multiple ways of making something survivable, especially in the dark ages.

This is something i a working on currently. It's a slightly older WOB assault but its definetely focused on being hard to kill, maybe it can give you some ideas?

Code: [Select]

Shielded jumper 

Mass: 85 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-F-A
Production Year: 3070
Cost: 20,536,480 C-Bills
Battle Value: 2,545

Chassis: Unknown Standard
Power Plant: Unknown 340 Light Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h (32.4 km/h)
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h (54.0 km/h)
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 180 meters (210 meters)
Armor: Unknown Stealth Armor
Armament:
    1  Large VSPL
    1  Medium Shield
    1  Guardian ECM Suite
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                     130 points                8.50
Engine:             Light Fusion Engine          340                      20.50
    Walking MP: 4 (3)
    Running MP: 6 (5)
    Jumping MP: 6 (7) Improved
    Jump Jet Locations: 2 CT, 2 LT, 2 RT                                  12.00
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             10(23)                    0.00
Gyro:                                                                      0.00
Cockpit:            Interface                                              4.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA    R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor:              Stealth Armor                AV - 263                 16.50
    Armor Locations: 2 LT, 2 RT, 2 LA, 2 RA, 2 LL, 2 RL

                                                      Internal       Armor      
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     27           41        
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  13        
                                           L/R Torso     18           27        
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  9         
                                             L/R Arm     14           28        
                                             L/R Leg     18           36        

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guardian ECM Suite                           CT        0         2         1.50
Partial Wing                                 LT/RT     -         4/4       6.00
Medium Shield                                RA        -         5         4.00
Large VSPL                                   LA        10        4         9.00
Targeting Computer                           LA        -         3         3.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 1

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      9    Points: 25
3/7j       2       1       0       0      4     0   Structure:  5
Special Abilities: ECM, STL, MEL, SHLD, ENE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

Sabelkatten · « **Reply #6 on:** 10 April 2019, 07:09:26 »

I did make a reinforced max-hardened 100-tonner with modular armor and two large shields once... Moved 1/1 with TSM active... ;D

EDIT: Found the thread. :D

Cyk0 · « **Reply #7 on:** 10 April 2019, 08:02:35 »

I have always wondered how the rules would work for two shields on the areas where they overlap on in active mode (maybe only one can be active per turn to avoid double shielding the center torso and head)

Tai Dai Cultist · « **Reply #8 on:** 10 April 2019, 08:46:23 »

The Shiro and the Stalker II are canonical examples of "tough to kill" that illustrate the inherent downsides of employing the design strategy.

Namely, it's easy enough to make an obnoxiously difficult mech to kill. But unless it has the offensive threat to force people to shoot at it, the point of diminishing returns on defensive tech is rather low. And of course going "all in" beyond that point of diminishing returns is very ineffective.

grimlock1 · « **Reply #9 on:** 10 April 2019, 08:53:00 »

Modular armor will certainly thicken up your hide, past normal maximums. Is ferro-lam available by 3120?

Armoring the hip and shoulder crits will prevent lucky dismemberment, and armoring everything in the legs will keep you mobile.

Cyk0 also has a point that mobility is very handy. Jumping 7 hexes will give you a consistent +4 TMM. Paired with decent armor, that will be a tough egg to crack.

Where are you heading with this? A boss mech for a campaign? Thought exercise?

Quote from: Sabelkatten on 10 April 2019, 07:09:26

I did make a reinforced max-hardened 100-tonner with modular armor and two large shields once... Moved 1/1 with TSM active... ;D

EDIT: Found the thread. :D

I did an Archangel config with 2 large shields, and as many plates of modular armor as I could fit. Add some chaff pods, double LAMS, some heat sinks, oh and about as much firepower as a WLF-1. I called it the Iron Zombie. >:D

Quote from: Cyk0 on 10 April 2019, 08:02:35

I have always wondered how the rules would work for two shields on the areas where they overlap on in active mode (maybe only one can be active per turn to avoid double shielding the center torso and head)

Someone asked that question the Rules forum a while back.

packhntr · « **Reply #10 on:** 10 April 2019, 10:12:49 »

Quote from: grimlock1 on 10 April 2019, 08:53:00

Cyk0 also has a point that mobility is very handy. Jumping 7 hexes will give you a consistent +4 TMM. Paired with decent armor, that will be a tough egg to crack.
Rules forum a while back.

Motto of Light mech.....SPEED is armor. If the TMM is high enough, combined with range, you'll never hit. Of course, chances are, you'll not be able to do much damage as well. Tradeoffs.

Cyk0 · « **Reply #11 on:** 10 April 2019, 10:49:51 »

Quote from: packhntr on 10 April 2019, 10:12:49

Motto of Light mech.....SPEED is armor. If the TMM is high enough, combined with range, you'll never hit. Of course, chances are, you'll not be able to do much damage as well. Tradeoffs.

And if you are a assault with 7 jump far away with Chameleon LPS and Null sig the TTM is high... And if you do get hit you are still and assault with 26 tones of hardned armor. And you will still be replying with two heat neutral ERLL aided by aNova CEWS, just so you can do some spotting or ignore some range modifiers while jumping around...

Illustrated here by some random society monstrosity that I would hate to fight against

Code: [Select]

Society jumping spotter 

Mass: 85 tons
Tech Base: Mixed
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: Dark Ages
Tech Rating/Era Availability: X/X-X-X-A
Production Year: 3132
Cost: 28,582,808 C-Bills
Battle Value: 4,068

Chassis: Unknown Composite Structure
Power Plant: Unknown 340 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h (54.0 km/h)
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 180 meters (210 meters)
Armor: Unknown Hardened
Armament:
    2  (CL) ER Large Lasers
    1  Nova CEWS
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Composite Structure          130 points                4.50
Engine:             XL Engine                    340                      13.50
    Walking MP: 4
    Running MP: 6 (5)
    Jumping MP: 6 (7) Improved
    Jump Jet Locations: 2 CT, 2 LT, 2 RT                                  12.00
Heat Sinks:         (CL) Double Heat Sink        21(45)                   11.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 4 LA, 4 RA
Gyro:                                                                      0.00
Cockpit:            Interface                                              4.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA
Armor:              Hardened                     AV - 208                 26.00

                                                      Internal       Armor      
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     27           31        
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  8         
                                           L/R Torso     18           28        
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  7         
                                             L/R Arm     14           20        
                                             L/R Leg     18           25        

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nova CEWS                                    CT        2         1         1.50
(CL) ER Large Laser                          RT        12        1         4.00
(CL) ER Large Laser                          LT        12        1         4.00
(CL) Partial Wing                            LT/RT     -         3/3       4.50
Null Signature System                        *         10        7         0.00
Chameleon LPS                                *         6         6         0.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 0

* The Null Signature System occupies 1 slot in every location except the HD.
* The Chameleon LPS occupies 1 slot in every location except the HD and CT.

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:     14    Points: 41
4/7j       2       2       2       0      4     0   Structure:  2
Special Abilities: ECM, STL, ENE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

grimlock1 · « **Reply #12 on:** 11 April 2019, 10:02:29 »

Quote from: Cyk0 on 10 April 2019, 10:49:51

And if you are a assault with 7 jump far away with Chameleon LPS and Null sig the TTM is high... And if you do get hit you are still and assault with 26 tones of hardned armor. And you will still be replying with two heat neutral ERLL aided by aNova CEWS, just so you can do some spotting or ignore some range modifiers while jumping around...

Illustrated here by some random society monstrosity that I would hate to fight against
Code: [Select]
Society jumping spotter Mass: 85 tons Tech Base: Mixed Chassis Config: Biped Rules Level: Experimental Tech Era: Dark Ages Tech Rating/Era Availability: X/X-X-X-A Production Year: 3132 Cost: 28,582,808 C-Bills Battle Value: 4,068 Chassis: Unknown Composite Structure Power Plant: Unknown 340 Fusion XL Engine Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h (54.0 km/h) Jump Jets: Unknown Jump Capacity: 180 meters (210 meters) Armor: Unknown Hardened Armament: 2 (CL) ER Large Lasers 1 Nova CEWS Manufacturer: Unknown Primary Factory: Unknown Communications System: Unknown Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown ================================================================================ Equipment Type Rating Mass -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Internal Structure: Composite Structure 130 points 4.50 Engine: XL Engine 340 13.50 Walking MP: 4 Running MP: 6 (5) Jumping MP: 6 (7) Improved Jump Jet Locations: 2 CT, 2 LT, 2 RT 12.00 Heat Sinks: (CL) Double Heat Sink 21(45) 11.00 Heat Sink Locations: 4 LA, 4 RA Gyro: 0.00 Cockpit: Interface 4.00 Actuators: L: SH+UA R: SH+UA Armor: Hardened AV - 208 26.00 Internal Armor Structure Factor Head 3 9 Center Torso 27 31 Center Torso (rear) 8 L/R Torso 18 28 L/R Torso (rear) 7 L/R Arm 14 20 L/R Leg 18 25 ================================================================================ Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nova CEWS CT 2 1 1.50 (CL) ER Large Laser RT 12 1 4.00 (CL) ER Large Laser LT 12 1 4.00 (CL) Partial Wing LT/RT - 3/3 4.50 Null Signature System * 10 7 0.00 Chameleon LPS * 6 6 0.00 Free Critical Slots: 0 * The Null Signature System occupies 1 slot in every location except the HD. * The Chameleon LPS occupies 1 slot in every location except the HD and CT. BattleForce Statistics MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 14 Points: 41 4/7j 2 2 2 0 4 0 Structure: 2 Special Abilities: ECM, STL, ENE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

Between CLPS, Null Sig, long range, and jumping 7, that +12 TH. The only person whose got a chance to hit that thing is a Machina Domini(VDNI, not EI), with a pulse laser, targeting computer, and a gun skill of 1!

Cyk0 · « **Reply #13 on:** 11 April 2019, 13:59:05 »

Quote from: grimlock1 on 11 April 2019, 10:02:29

Between CLPS, Null Sig, long range, and jumping 7, that +12 TH. The only person whose got a chance to hit that thing is a Machina Domini(VDNI, not EI), with a pulse laser, targeting computer, and a gun skill of 1!

Well this was supposed to be hat to kill mechs. 8)
That being said I have better balanced versions of the same concept with with less all out survivability (as you point out its quite hard to get rid of already so the 26 tones of hardened is laying it on thick.)
Large pulse lasers are a weapon that better complements its playstyle (and the lower heat means you save crit space)

Caedis Animus · « **Reply #14 on:** 12 April 2019, 16:44:03 »

Quote from: Tai Dai Cultist on 10 April 2019, 08:46:23

The Shiro and the Stalker II are canonical examples of "tough to kill" that illustrate the inherent downsides of employing the design strategy.

Namely, it's easy enough to make an obnoxiously difficult mech to kill. But unless it has the offensive threat to force people to shoot at it, the point of diminishing returns on defensive tech is rather low. And of course going "all in" beyond that point of diminishing returns is very ineffective.

I recommend taking a look at the Viking IIC and Osteon Prime for successful examples. Because Osteons hit really freaking hard for something that durable.

As for that Society'd jumper, I recommend something with lots of Artillery. And landmines.

grimlock1 · « **Reply #15 on:** 13 April 2019, 19:19:10 »

What about Harjel II/III? Armor that grows back

Feign · « **Reply #16 on:** 14 April 2019, 20:59:54 »

Quote from: grimlock1 on 11 April 2019, 10:02:29

Between CLPS, Null Sig, long range, and jumping 7, that +12 TH. The only person whose got a chance to hit that thing is a Machina Domini(VDNI, not EI), with a pulse laser, targeting computer, and a gun skill of 1!

Or mines, bombing runs, on-board artillery, or artillery cannons targeting the hex.
Live by the advanced rules, die by the advanced rules. ^-^

Alsadius · « **Reply #17 on:** 15 April 2019, 04:12:04 »

Quote from: grimlock1 on 11 April 2019, 10:02:29

Between CLPS, Null Sig, long range, and jumping 7, that +12 TH. The only person whose got a chance to hit that thing is a Machina Domini(VDNI, not EI), with a pulse laser, targeting computer, and a gun skill of 1!

On top of what Feign said, you're getting +8 of that from being at long range (+4 base, +2 Chameleon, +2 Null-Sig). Anything that gets in close is only shooting at a +4, which is quite hittable. That could mean a Spider, but it could also mean a C3 spotter. Non-canon, but you can do a 30-tonner 10/20/10(w/MASC) with a C3 slave and a TAG on an IS tech base(XLFE, XL Gyro, no lower arms/hands, ES, and FF to make it all fit) - it's even got near-max armour. Use that TAG to spot for semi-guided LRMs, and the attackers are effectively shooting at close range with no movement mods, so it's actually a +0 to hit with your missile boats, not +12. The advanced rules giveth, and the advanced rules taketh away.

Sabelkatten · « **Reply #18 on:** 15 April 2019, 07:19:45 »

Just for fun, the jump 7, stealthed, hardened armor, IS assault. Arguably not the most impressive mech ever... ::)

Code: [Select]

Knockoff NECT

Mass: 85 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: Dark Ages
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-X-A
Production Year: 3132
Cost: 28,061,293 C-Bills
Battle Value: 2,536

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Composite
Power Plant: Unknown 340 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h (54.0 km/h)
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 180 meters (210 meters)
Armor: Unknown Hardened
Armament:
    2  ER Large Lasers
    1  Medium X-Pulse Laser
    1  Angel ECM
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Composite               130 points                6.50
    Internal Locations: 2 LA, 3 RA, 1 LL, 1 RL
Engine:             XL Fusion Engine             340                      13.50
    Walking MP: 4
    Running MP: 6 (5)
    Jumping MP: 6 (7) Improved
    Jump Jet Locations: 2 CT, 2 LT, 2 RT                                  12.00
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             11(25)                    1.00
Gyro:               Compact                                                6.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor:              Hardened                     AV - 160                 20.00

                                                      Internal       Armor      
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     27           24        
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  5         
                                           L/R Torso     18           20        
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  5         
                                             L/R Arm     14           16        
                                             L/R Leg     18           20        

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Medium X-Pulse Laser                         HD        6         1         2.00
Partial Wing                                 LT/RT     -         4/4       6.00
Angel ECM                                    RA        0         2         2.00
ER Large Laser                               RA        12        2         5.00
ER Large Laser                               LA        12        2         5.00
Targeting Computer                           LA        -         3         3.00
Chameleon LPS                                *         6         6         0.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 0

* The Chameleon LPS occupies 1 slot in every location except the HD and CT.

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:     11    Points: 25
4/7j       3       3       2       0      4     0   Structure:  2
Special Abilities: ECM, STL, AECM, ENE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

And my old design based on mostly the same idea as the OP. On an omnimech reinforced structure is a lot more important since you can't use hardened armor!

[code]Big Bull BB-1XO

Mass: 100 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Quad Omnimech
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-F-A
Production Year: 3070
Cost: 13,323,750 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,774

Chassis: Unknown Reinforced
Power Plant: Unknown 300 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 32.4 km/h
Maximum Speed: 54.0 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Light Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
32.5 tons of pod space.
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Reinforced 160 points 20.00
Engine: Fusion Engine 300 19.00
Walking MP: 3
Running MP: 5
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 12(24) 2.00
Gyro: Standard 3.00
Cockpit: (A) Torso-Mounted 5.00
Actuators: L: H+UL+LL+F R: H+UL+LL+F
Armor: Light Ferro-Fibrous AV - 313 18.50
Armor Locations: 2 FLL, 2 FRL, 2 RLL, 1 RRL

Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 31 47
Center Torso (rear) 15
L/R Torso 21 32
L/R Torso (rear) 10
L/R Front Leg 21 40
L/R Rear Leg 21 39

================================================================================
Loadout Name: base Cost: 13,323,750
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-F-A BV2: 1,774

Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actuators: L: H+UL+LL+F R: H+UL+LL+F

Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

================================================================================
Loadout Name: Prime Cost: 15,992,500
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-F-A BV2: 2,294

Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actuators: L: H+UL+LL+F R: H+UL+LL+F

Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(T) LB 10-X AC RT 2 6 11.00
2 (T) Medium X-Pulse Lasers RT 12 2 4.00
MML-3 RT 2 2 1.50
ER PPC LT 15 3 7.00
Medium Laser LT 3 1 1.00
MML-3 LT 2 2 1.50
B-Pod RRL 0 1 1.00
@LB 10-X (Cluster) (10) HD - 1 1.00
@LB 10-X (Slug) (10) HD - 1 1.00
@MML-3 (LRM) (40) HD - 1 1.00
@MML-3 (SRM) (33) HD - 1 1.00
Quad Mech Turret RT - 1 1.50
Free Critical Slots: 5

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 10 Points: 23
3 3 3 2 0 4 2 Structure: 16
Special Abilities: OMNI, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA, FLK 1/1/1

================================================================================
Loadout Name: HPPC Cost: 17,196,250
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-F-A BV2: 2,613

Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 16(32) 4.00
Heat Sink Locations: 3 LT, 1 RT
Actuators: L: H+UL+LL+F R: H+UL+LL+F

Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heavy PPC HD 15 4 10.00
(T) Heavy PPC RT 15 4 10.00
2 (T) Medium X-Pulse Lasers RT 12 2 4.00
(T) Medium Laser RT 3 1 1.00
Angel ECM LT 0 2 2.00
Quad Mech Turret RT - 1 1.50
Free Critical Slots: 1

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 10 Points: 26
3 4 4 3 0 4 1 Structure: 16
Special Abilities: OMNI, AECM, ENE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

================================================================================
Loadout Name: PPP Cost: 15,771,250
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-F-A BV2: 2,571

Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 16(32) 4.00
Heat Sink Locations: 1 HD, 2 LT, 1 RT
Actuators: L: H+UL+LL+F R: H+UL+LL+F

Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(T) ER Medium Laser RT 5 1 1.00
(T) ER PPC RT 15 3 7.00
(T) Plasma Rifle RT 10 2 6.00
TAG RT 0 1 1.00
Heavy PPC LT 15 4 10.00
@Plasma Rifle (10) HD - 1 1.00
@Plasma Rifle (10) RRL - 1 1.00
Quad Mech Turret RT - 1 1.50
Free Critical Slots: 1

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 10 Points: 26
3 3 3 2 0 4 1 Structure: 16
Special Abilities: OMNI, TAG, ENE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

================================================================================
Loadout Name: GR Cost: 16,176,250
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-F-A BV2: 2,501

Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 13(26) 1.00
Heat Sink Locations: 1 RT
CASE II Locations: 1 LT 1.00
Actuators: L: H+UL+LL+F R: H+UL+LL+F

Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C3 Computer (Slave) HD 0 1 1.00
2 (T) ER Large Lasers RT 24 4 10.00
Gauss Rifle LT 1 7 15.00
@Gauss Rifle (24) LT - 3 3.00
Quad Mech Turret RT - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 7

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 10 Points: 25
3 3 4 4 0 4 0 Structure: 16
Special Abilities: OMNI, C3S, CASEII, MHQ1, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

================================================================================
Loadout Name: Spotter Cost: 17,956,250
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-F-A BV2: 2,435

Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jumping MP: 3 (Standard)
Jump Jet Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT, 1 RRL 6.00
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 15(30) 3.00
Heat Sink Locations: 3 LT
Actuators: L: H+UL+LL+F R: H+UL+LL+F

Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Angel ECM HD 0 2 2.00
C3 Computer (Slave) HD 0 1 1.00
2 (T) Large X-Pulse Lasers RT 28 4 14.00
Targeting Computer RT - 4 4.00
TAG LT 0 1 1.00
Quad Mech Turret RT - 1 1.50
Free Critical Slots: 2

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 10 Points: 24
3j 3 3 0 0 4 0 Structure: 16
Special Abilities: OMNI, AECM, C3S, TAG, ENE, MHQ1, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

================================================================================
Loadout Name: B Spotter Cost: 18,861,250
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-F-A BV2: 2,457

Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jumping MP: 3 (Standard)
Jump Jet Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT, 1 RRL 6.00
Actuators: L: H+UL+LL+F R: H+UL+LL+F

Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C3 Boosted Computer (Slave) HD 0 2 3.00
Streak SRM-4 HD 3 1 3.00
2 (T) Snub-Nose PPCs RT 20 4 12.00
Targeting Computer RT - 3 3.00
TAG LT 0 1 1.00
Angel ECM LT 0 2 2.00
@Streak SRM-4 (25) HD - 1 1.00
Quad Mech Turret RT - 1 1.50
Free Critical Slots: 9

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 10 Points: 25
3j 4 3 0 0 4 0 Structure: 16
Special Abilities: OMNI, TAG, C3BSS, AECM, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

================================================================================
Loadout Name: SuperSpotter Cost: 20,536,250
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-F-A BV2: 2,476

Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jumping MP: 5 (Improved)
Jump Jet Locations: 3 LT, 2 RT 20.00
Actuators: L: H+UL+LL+F R: H+UL+LL+F

Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Angel ECM HD 0 2 2.00
C3 Boosted Computer (Slave) HD 0 2 3.00
4 (T) ER Medium Lasers RT 20 4 4.00
TAG LT 0 1 1.00
Targeting Computer RRL - 1 1.00
Quad Mech Turret RT - 1 0.50
Free Critical Slots: 6

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 10 Points: 25
3/5j 3 3 0 0 4 0 Structure: 16
Special Abilities: OMNI, AECM, C3BSS, TAG, ENE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

================================================================================
Loadout Name: UAC Cost: 15,961,250
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-F-A BV2: 2,346

Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CASE II Locations: 1 LT 1.00
Actuators: L: H+UL+LL+F R: H+UL+LL+F

Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Streak SRM-4 HD 3 1 3.00
Ultra AC/20 RT 8 10 15.00
ER Large Laser LT 12 2 5.00
Medium X-Pulse Laser LT 6 1 2.00
@Ultra AC/20 (10) HD - 2 2.00
@Streak SRM-4 (25) HD - 1 1.00
@Ultra AC/20 (10) LT - 2 2.00
Quad Mech Turret RT - 1 0.00
Free Critical Slots: 6

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 10 Points: 23
3 4 4 1 0 4 2 Structure: 16
Special Abilities: OMNI, CASEII, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

================================================================================
Loadout Name: Missile Cost: 15,151,875
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-F-A BV2: 2,264

Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CASE II Locations: 1 LT 1.00
Actuators: L: H+UL+LL+F R: H+UL+LL+F

Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(T) LRM-5 RT 2 1 2.00
3 (T) MML-3s RT 6 6 4.50
2 (T) ER Medium Lasers RT 10 2 2.00
(T) ER Small Laser RT 2 1 0.50
7 LRM-5s LT 14 7 14.00
@LRM-5 (48) HD - 2 2.00
@MML-3 (LRM) (40) HD - 1 1.00
@MML-3 (SRM) (33) HD - 1 1.00
@LRM-5 (72) LT - 3 3.00
Quad Mech Turret RT - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 1

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 10 Points: 23
3 3 4 3 0 4 0 Structure: 16
Special Abilities: OMNI, CASEII, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA, LRM 1/2/2, IF 2

================================================================================
Loadout Name: C3M Cost: 21,088,750
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-F-A BV2: 2,425

Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 13(26) 1.00
Heat Sink Locations: 1 RT
Actuators: L: H+UL+LL+F R: H+UL+LL+F

Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER Medium Laser HD 5 1 1.00
(T) ER PPC RT 15 3 7.00
Laser Anti-Missile System RT 7 2 1.50
Targeting Computer RT - 2 2.00
Extended LRM-10 LT 6 4 8.00
Angel ECM LT 0 2 2.00
C3 Computer (Master) LT 0 5 5.00
Rocket Launcher 10 RRL 3 1 0.50
@ELRM-10 (27) HD - 3 3.00
Quad Mech Turret RT - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 0

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 10 Points: 24
3 3 3 2 0 4 0 Structure: 16
Special Abilities: OMNI, AECM, AMS, C3M, TAG, MHQ5, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA, IF 1

================================================================================
Loadout Name: Company C3 Cost: 25,323,750
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-F-A BV2: 2,449

Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jumping MP: 3 (Standard)
Jump Jet Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT, 1 RRL 6.00
Actuators: L: H+UL+LL+F R: H+UL+LL+F

Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Angel ECM HD 0 2 2.00
Laser Anti-Missile System HD 7 2 1.50
Laser Anti-Missile System RT 7 2 1.50
(T) ER Large Laser RT 12 2 5.00
(T) ER Medium Laser RT 5 1 1.00
(T) Medium X-Pulse Laser RT 6 1 2.00
Targeting Computer RT - 2 2.00
2 C3 Computer (Master)s LT 0 10 10.00
Quad Mech Turret RT - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 1

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 10 Points: 24
3j 3 3 1 0 4 0 Structure: 16
Special Abilities: OMNI, AECM, AMS, C3M, TAG, ENE, MHQ10, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

================================================================================
Loadout Name: MML Cost: 18,123,750
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-F-A BV2: 2,458

Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actuators: L: H+UL+LL+F R: H+UL+LL+F

Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C3 Computer (Slave) HD 0 1 1.00
(T) MML-9 RT 5 5 6.00
Artemis IV FCS RT - 1 1.00
2 (T) Medium X-Pulse Lasers RT 12 2 4.00
(T) Medium Laser RT 3 1 1.00
(T) Streak SRM-4 RT 3 1 3.00
ER PPC LT 15 3 7.00
Angel ECM LT 0 2 2.00
Targeting Computer LT - 3 3.00
@MML-9 (LRM Art-IV) (13) HD - 1 1.00
@MML-9 (SRM Art-IV) (11) HD - 1 1.00
@Streak SRM-4 (25) HD - 1 1.00
Quad Mech Turret RT - 1 1.50
Free Critical Slots: 4

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 10 Points: 25
3 4 4 2 0 4 2 Structure: 16
Special Abilities: OMNI, AECM, C3S, MHQ1, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA, IF 1

================================================================================
Loadout Name: Plasma Cost: 15,348,750
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-F-A BV2: 2,420

Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 13(26) 1.00
Heat Sink Locations: 1 LT
Actuators: L: H+UL+LL+F R: H+UL+LL+F

Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Coolant Pod HD 0 1 1.00
2 (T) Plasma Rifles RT 20 4 12.00
2 (T) MML-3s RT 4 4 3.00
MML-3 LT 2 2 1.50
M-Pod LT 0 1 1.00
Targeting Computer LT - 3 3.00
(R) SRM-4 (iOS) RRL 3 1 1.50
@MML-3 (LRM) (40) HD - 1 1.00
@MML-3 (SRM Inferno) (33) HD - 1 1.00
@MML-3 (SRM) (33) HD - 1 1.00
@Plasma Rifle (20) RT - 2 2.00
@Plasma Rifle (20) LT - 2 2.00
Quad Mech Turret RT - 1 1.50
Free Critical Slots: 0

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 10 Points: 24
3 4 4 1 0 4 0 Structure: 16
Special Abilities: OMNI, HT1, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA, IF 1

================================================================================
Loadout Name: Mortar Cost: 14,548,750
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-F-A BV2: 1,964

Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CASE II Locations: 1 LT 1.00
Actuators: L: H+UL+LL+F R: H+UL+LL+F

Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(T) Mech Mortar 8 RT 10 5

grimlock1 · « **Reply #19 on:** 15 April 2019, 14:17:04 »

Quote from: Feign on 14 April 2019, 20:59:54

Live by the advanced rules, die by the advanced rules. ^-^

I'm gonna steal that. :-)

Cyk0 · « **Reply #20 on:** 16 April 2019, 05:32:48 »

Quote from: Alsadius on 15 April 2019, 04:12:04

On top of what Feign said, you're getting +8 of that from being at long range (+4 base, +2 Chameleon, +2 Null-Sig). Anything that gets in close is only shooting at a +4, which is quite hittable. That could mean a Spider, but it could also mean a C3 spotter. Non-canon, but you can do a 30-tonner 10/20/10(w/MASC) with a C3 slave and a TAG on an IS tech base(XLFE, XL Gyro, no lower arms/hands, ES, and FF to make it all fit) - it's even got near-max armour. Use that TAG to spot for semi-guided LRMs, and the attackers are effectively shooting at close range with no movement mods, so it's actually a +0 to hit with your missile boats, not +12. The advanced rules giveth, and the advanced rules taketh away.

I'm not sure I would say they taketh away to a great extent though. We are still talking about something with 26 tones of hardened armour making an atlas feel underarmored... It did not bet everything on the hitmodifier (the stealth is weightless, though ofc with an associated heat and space opportunity cost.)
It can certainly be killed, but it can also position itself relatively well on the battlefield with its 7 jump range (it might even want to get close by itself in order to provide spotting for other units) And sure, it can be brought down by mines and hex arty as well which can be said of most mechs, and tbh 7 jump makes it less exposed to those methosds and it still has plenty of armour if it does get hit.

All that being said mobility does not have to be a full all or nothing either. You can try to balance out a tough to kill mech in general.Try to make something that can move more than expected, is hard to hit at its preferred combat range, is protected by 30t of hardened armor against the things that can hit and that still has an accurate heat neutral long range armament that is unwise to ignore.

Code: [Select]

Society tri pulse jump 

Mass: 85 tons
Tech Base: Mixed
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: All Eras (non-canon)
Tech Rating/Era Availability: X/X-X-X-A
Production Year: 0
Cost: 21,325,875 C-Bills
Battle Value: 4,215

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 255 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 32.4 km/h
Maximum Speed: 54.0 km/h (43.2 km/h)
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 150 meters
Armor: Unknown Hardened
Armament:
    3  (CL) Large Pulse Lasers
    1  Nova CEWS
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel                   130 points                4.50
    Internal Locations: 1 CT, 1 LT, 1 RT, 1 LA, 1 RA, 1 LL, 1 RL
Engine:             XL Engine                    255                       6.50
    Walking MP: 3
    Running MP: 5 (4)
    Jumping MP: 5 Improved
    Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 2 LT, 2 RT                                  10.00
Heat Sinks:         (CL) Double Heat Sink        20(40)                   10.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT, 4 LA, 4 RA
Gyro:                                                                      0.00
Cockpit:            Interface                                              4.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA
Armor:              Hardened                     AV - 244                 30.50

                                                      Internal       Armor      
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     27           36        
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  15        
                                           L/R Torso     18           25        
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  11        
                                             L/R Arm     14           20        
                                             L/R Leg     18           36        

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(CL) Large Pulse Laser                       CT        10        2         6.00
Nova CEWS                                    CT        2         1         1.50
(CL) Large Pulse Laser                       RT        10        2         6.00
(CL) Large Pulse Laser                       LT        10        2         6.00
Chameleon LPS                                *         6         6         0.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 0

* The Chameleon LPS occupies 1 slot in every location except the HD and CT.

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:     16    Points: 42
3/5j       4       4       4       0      4     0   Structure:  5
Special Abilities: ECM, STL, ENE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

packhntr · « **Reply #21 on:** 19 April 2019, 14:57:06 »

Finally had time to put together my version. Wanted to get armored components, but not allowed with Hardened armor. Oh well.

BattleMech Technical Readout
Custom* Weapons

Type/Model: Wall WL-01
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3132
Config: Biped BattleMech
Rules: Level 3, Standard design

Mass: 100 tons
Chassis: Reinforced
Power Plant: 200 Compact Fusion
Walking Speed: 21.6 km/h
Maximum Speed: 21.6 [43.2] km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor Type: Hardened
Armament:
1 Medium Pulse Laser
4 ER Medium Lasers
1 HPPC Capacitor*
1 Heavy PPC*
2 Small X-Pulse Lasers
1 Angel ECM Suite
Manufacturer: (Unknown)
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System: (Unknown)

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Wall WL-01
Mass: 100 tons

Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 152 pts Reinforced 0 20.00
Engine: 200 Compact Fusion 3 13.00
Walking MP: 2 [3]
Running MP: 2 [4]
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: 11 Double [22] 9 1.00
(Heat Sink Loc: 1 LT, 2 RT)
Compact Gyro: 2 3.00
Torso-Mounted Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 6 4.00
Triple Strength Myomer: 6 .00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA+H R: Sh+UA+LA+H 16 .00
Armor Factor: 304 pts Hardened 0 38.00

Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 31 44
Center Torso (Rear): 15
L/R Side Torso: 21 32/32
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 10/10
L/R Arm: 17 34/34
L/R Leg: 21 42/42

Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 Medium Pulse Laser RT 4 1 2.00
4 ER Medium Lasers LT 20 4 4.00
1 HPPC Capacitor* CT 5 1 1.00
1 Heavy PPC* CT 15 4 10.00
2 Small X-Pulse Lasers HD 6 2 2.00
1 Angel ECM Suite HD 0 2 2.00
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 50 56 100.00
Crits & Tons Left: 22 .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 18,901,334 C-Bills
Battle Value 2: 2,819 (old BV = 2,151)
Cost per BV2: 6,704.98
Weapon Value: 3,588 / 3,588 (Ratio = 1.27 / 1.27)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 23; MRDmg = 11; LRDmg = 4
BattleForce2: MP: 2, Armor/Structure: 8/8
Damage PB/M/L: 3/2/1, Overheat: 4
Class: MA; Point Value: 28
Specials: ecm