Mercenaries Kickstarter Discussion 6: the 1st 3rd Star League conversation

[RazorclawXLS]

I'm extremely confident that you have extra bases somewhere or can easily source extra bases to fix this for yourself, and in the meantime I'm going to be happy that I can get plastic Savannah Masters at all.

So what happened to making playing Battletech as user friendly as possible and as easiest as possible? This has been the mantra whenever someone mentioned force packs with unassembled mechs.

[I am Belch II]

Getting caught on the other side of the Chinese New Year delayed the CI Kickstarter.
Lets hope not this year.

[Maingunnery]

So what happened to making playing Battletech as user friendly as possible and as easiest as possible? This has been the mantra whenever someone mentioned force packs with unassembled mechs.

It has three holes for user friendliness.

But frankly this is clearly an experiment, if the long-term feedback is positive then CGL will have a lot more options for the future.

[Scotty]

So what happened to making playing Battletech as user friendly as possible and as easiest as possible? This has been the mantra whenever someone mentioned force packs with unassembled mechs.

Fortunately, you can also still play them right out of the box as one base = one unit.  I feel like that is both fast and easy.

[Weirdo]

I'm extremely confident that you have extra bases somewhere or can easily source extra bases to fix this for yourself, and in the meantime I'm going to be happy that I can get plastic Savannah Masters at all.

I'm happy we're getting Savannah Masters as well. But I do not believe that the only way for them to exist was with the inclusion of a weird mechanic that is only occasionally supported by the actual gameplay.

[Aotrs Commander]

I mean, like... Use cardboard? If you can't be bothered to get a ruler, just trace around an existing hex base? Like what I have always done until the point I had a 3D printer and got lazy and decided that one hex and an extrude was easier than getting a ruler out. Cereal box cardboard with magnabase stuck to it is more than good enough material to stick models on; I have hundreds of models of various types that just used that Double-especially if you're going to put some basing material.

Bases are so trivial to do I am astonished this could ever be considered a problem either way.

Hell, it's only a concession to BT's hex-based system I even bother putting hex bases on my vehicles at all, as opposed to just enough of a base to stick magnabase to. (And will probably do with my vehicles anyway even when provided the ones in the boxes, because I hazard the bases will be thinner that way.)

(I don't base my 144th stuff at all, except for infantry and bikes.)

[Colt Ward]

2 per base only works if both vees have the same facing at all times AND move identically at all times AND neither one takes any damage or they both take identical damage at all times.

This is no good, and extremely worrisome, along the same vein as their neglecting to actually put vehicle rules in their intro to vehicles box, or their refusal to put out an updated record sheet for their plastic ASF when every other plastic unit has gotten one or more.

I'm seeing writing on the wall, and that writing is obscene.

OR . . .

A) it is to make the value match- people already complain about the Elemental pricing- this especially factors in if you can easily remove them

B) they would be 'generic light veh' stand ins for the simplified veh rules as presented in Tukayyid

[wundergoat]

I wonder if the support card is a pair of Savannah Masters vs just a single.

[Weirdo]

Gods, I hope not. Given how many players are getting their intro to vehicle rules this way, the more differences they push at this point the easier it will be to completely shove the actual vehicle rules off to the side.

[Greatclub]

It's always better to have more than less. Easy fix for two extra bases - objective counters.

Now, getting your hands on 30mm hex bases is rather easy in USA, and other countries where hex based war gaming is a thing. Not some much easy anywhere else. Ordering hex bases online makes sense only for greater quantities or in conjunction with other stuff, but what if you need just 2?

if you want I can show you how to draft a hex, I'm sure most people can procure suitable material and saw/knife

[Centurion03]

This is a serious throwback question... I hope someone can help.

From the Clan Invasion Kickstarter, how was Volume 3 of Founding of the Clans shared? I received keys to redeem Vol 1 and Vol 2 via CrowdOx but for the life of me, I can't seem to find any emails related to Volume 3.

[Hydrofoil Goat]

This is a serious throwback question... I hope someone can help.

From the Clan Invasion Kickstarter, how was Volume 3 of Founding of the Clans shared? I received keys to redeem Vol 1 and Vol 2 via CrowdOx but for the life of me, I can't seem to find any emails related to Volume 3.

I think I had to email the store to get that one. Don't recall ever receiving a key or anything like that.

[B4D]

So I think this may be my second post ever, but. . . I seriously cannot believe people are whining about them giving us an extra 2 free savanna masters without bases alongside the 2 free savanna masters they are giving us, FOR FREE. I hope this isn't too harsh language for this forum, but that reaction to a cool bonus is sickening. And to add to all the obvious comments about cutting or 3d printing bases or not using them for vehicles anyway, I think I have about 8 mechs on their standard ral partha ovals that have been played with happily without hex bases for decades.

[NeonKnight]

2 per base only works if both vees have the same facing at all times AND move identically at all times AND neither one takes any damage or they both take identical damage at all times.

This is no good, and extremely worrisome, along the same vein as their neglecting to actually put vehicle rules in their intro to vehicles box, or their refusal to put out an updated record sheet for their plastic ASF when every other plastic unit has gotten one or more.

I'm seeing writing on the wall, and that writing is obscene.

They could be 2 per base to support the upcoming new Vehicle Based Support Rules/Cards. I cannot remember if the Savannah's were balanced to be 2 units. But again, something I do not know.

[JadeHellbringer]

That Firestarter image had me riding a nostalgia wave this morning.

In summer of 1992, a group of high-school age friends in the northwestern Denver suburbs got their hands on some of the early Clan books to add to their existing Battletech campaign. But they needed players for the Clan factions- and not just any players, but rubes that they could teach the basics of the game to, then wallop on a twice-a-week basis. There was no effort to really play by actual rules- just make it up as you go, the newbies won't know the difference. (Example- line of sight means being on the same row of hexes as your opponent! And an AMS? Whatever, we don't know how it works so it doesn't do anything. Ignore it.)

The result was bringing in one of the players' younger brother, age 12, and a few of his friends around the same age. As they got recruited to learn the game, they got to pick what Clan they played as. With the second pick (Wolf had been taken first), a 12-year-old, tall, gawky little blond kid picked Clan Jade Falcon- partly because it sounded cool, partly because his mom owned a green parrot that he hated.

The Mech issued as his first Mech as a Jade Falcon warrior? A Firestarter, the 3050 upgrade. Yeeeeeah. I know. Again, this was not a fair and balanced game. (Side note, the Davion player was at this point rolling Daishis. We found this odd, but didn't think anything of it at first.) We played a couple of months, never winning games, always just getting beat on by the House players, slowly realizing that the games were very rigged and the rulebooks weren't being made available for good reason to us...

So even as bad as it is, even as lopsided as my fights were, even as that Mech died due to its AMS ammo being blown up (the system doesn't work, but the ammo sure does!), even as our younger group left en masse and pooled resources on the way home to buy our own box sets and TROs so we could learn the game ourselves the right way (mostly)... I've kept a warm spot in my heart, pun intended, for the Firestarter ever since. That was Genesis, that's where my Battletech career began. Getting a new miniature of it after all these years- particularly one that looks that nice- it means more to me than it really normally should.

[RazorclawXLS]

if you want I can show you how to draft a hex, I'm sure most people can procure suitable material and saw/knife

Thank you for the offered help, mate, I was able to sort myself out with some small round balsa wood pieces and a box cutter. It sounds easier than it was, as I the proper material for the base was not that easy to find. I just stumbled upon it by chance. Had an epiphany when I saw those balsa wood pieces.

My post, that you responded to, was mostly to bring notice to the fact that what is easy for certain forum members to get or do is not that easy or available for other people to do.

[RazorclawXLS]

I wonder how much the Savannah Master salvage box is going to cost in retail. Getting a box or a couple for free in your kickstarter box is very nice, but this is also going to be available in retail if I am not mistaken.

It will depend on the price in the end, but my money is on that it will be a Salvage Box with the least number of sales, the same as the Elemental force pack.

[Aresneo]

I wonder how much the Savannah Master salvage box is going to cost in retail. Getting a box or a couple for free in your kickstarter box is very nice, but this is also going to be available in retail if I am not mistaken.

It will depend on the price in the end, but my money is on that it will be a Salvage Box with the least number of sales, the same as the Elemental force pack.

Its more likely to be the $8 like most other Salvage boxes, if its the $12 of the other vehicle salvage boxes then they are almost double the price of buying metal Savannah Masters from IWM.

[Charistoph]

It's always better to have more than less. Easy fix for two extra bases - objective counters.

Now, getting your hands on 30mm hex bases is rather easy in USA, and other countries where hex based war gaming is a thing. Not some much easy anywhere else. Ordering hex bases online makes sense only for greater quantities or in conjunction with other stuff, but what if you need just 2?

There is another alternative.  The IWM Battleforce Hex bases are 3/4", and will fit those Savannah Masters quite easily.  They are the same size as the bases that come with Protomechs, too.  I purchased a few from Aries Miniatures, and put some small CVs (like Badgers) on them and they work quite well.  Haven't taken pictures of them yet that I can show here, yet.

[Weirdo]

So I think this may be my second post ever, but. . . I seriously cannot believe people are whining about them giving us an extra 2 free savanna masters without bases alongside the 2 free savanna masters they are giving us, FOR FREE. I hope this isn't too harsh language for this forum, but that reaction to a cool bonus is sickening. And to add to all the obvious comments about cutting or 3d printing bases or not using them for vehicles anyway, I think I have about 8 mechs on their standard ral partha ovals that have been played with happily without hex bases for decades.

I must have missed something. The Savannah Masters box is going to be free? If so, I'm okay with this. If not, then shipping something people paid for without half the bases is seriously uncool.

[butchbird]

Something I've always wondered and now is as good a time as any to ask around since bases are the hot topic...

Considering the stacking rules for infantry with vehicles, how does one deal with that efficiently?

Now I haven't managed to get to use vees and infantry for many years and back in those days I simply used axis&allies(the real one, not the miniature game) "minis" as proxys for vees and a handfull of mishmashed and loaded off wh40k minis for infantry (and of course bipedal mechs allow a fair measure of space i the hex, even with a base themselves), so everything could still fit in an hex, but what is it people do to manage the space with a base full of elementals that you have to stack with a 'mech? And of course, the idea of a friggin' ontos taking up the whole hex is even more daunting then bipedal 'mechs in this stackable world.

So yeah, how does one efficiently stack units?

[Aresneo]

I must have missed something. The Savannah Masters box is going to be free? If so, I'm okay with this. If not, then shipping something people paid for without half the bases is seriously uncool.

In the unboxing video Randall talked about how they were supposed to be a free surprise for backers, we only got the unboxing video because Liya international accidentally posted a packing video of the Savannah Masters Salvage Box onto their Youtube channel. They will later get a retail release like all of the other salvage boxes from the campaign.

[Ghaz]

I must have missed something. The Savannah Masters box is going to be free? If so, I'm okay with this. If not, then shipping something people paid for without half the bases is seriously uncool.

Randall mentions the great joy of dropping the Shilone into everybody's box and trying to recapture that feeling with a new secret Salvage Box but ComStar got in the way, so he's going to be showing us what's being tossed into everybody's box as an extra cool, wonderful thank you. (audio on the video sucks, but closed captioning works fine).

[glitterboy2098]

Randall mentions the great joy of dropping the Shilone into everybody's box and trying to recapture that feeling with a new secret Salvage Box but ComStar got in the way, so he's going to be showing us what's being tossed into everybody's box as an extra cool, wonderful thank you. (audio on the video sucks, but closed captioning works fine).

makes me wonder if they're going to try and sneak some other item in as an actual surprise gift. say an extra poster print or something that would be easy for them to set up.

[Colt Ward]

So yeah, how does one efficiently stack units?

My vehicles & BA are not on hexes . . . Protos come on those, but they are smaller.

[Charistoph]

Now I haven't managed to get to use vees and infantry for many years and back in those days I simply used axis&allies(the real one, not the miniature game) "minis" as proxys for vees and a handfull of mishmashed and loaded off wh40k minis for infantry (and of course bipedal mechs allow a fair measure of space i the hex, even with a base themselves), so everything could still fit in an hex, but what is it people do to manage the space with a base full of elementals that you have to stack with a 'mech? And of course, the idea of a friggin' ontos taking up the whole hex is even more daunting then bipedal 'mechs in this stackable world.

So yeah, how does one efficiently stack units?

For me, it's using 3/4" bases, much like I referenced up above.  The older Protomechs already come with them, so it makes sense.

I traded the Elementals that came with my Clan Invasion box for another Raven after the dog obliterated it better than Long Toms doing the 1812 Overture, and then went with metal ones from IWM.  I put the infantry on 3/4" Fender Washers or steel discs used for jewelry stamping, and they work quite well.

Vehicles are a different story.  Many are too big to manage, but smaller ones like the J. Edgar or Badger, are small enough for the 3/4" Battleforce hexes.  Odds are, they will only be Stacking with each other or with Infantry, so minimal problems there.  For the big boys like the Ontos, just don't ever plan on Stacking them with your own units, so Stacking needs are minimal.

On the table top, it usually involves scooting them a little bit over here and there to indicate that they are both in the hex.  Works with Infantry, Protomechs, and Combat Vehicles that are on 3/4" bases, but not so much for units with the full 30mm bases.  I'll try and get some pictures for perspective with a hex map to demonstrate.

[shivanwurm]

This is the Somerset Strikers Bushwacker apparently. It was said to come with the Vulture parts by the person who looked into it and pointed it out.

[worktroll]

While those resemble Vulture legs, they're not genuine Vulture legs. As the B'wacker was based on Vulture schematics & parts, the similarity is perhaps not surprising.

[Lorcan Nagle]

Something I've always wondered and now is as good a time as any to ask around since bases are the hot topic...

Considering the stacking rules for infantry with vehicles, how does one deal with that efficiently?

Now I haven't managed to get to use vees and infantry for many years and back in those days I simply used axis&allies(the real one, not the miniature game) "minis" as proxys for vees and a handfull of mishmashed and loaded off wh40k minis for infantry (and of course bipedal mechs allow a fair measure of space i the hex, even with a base themselves), so everything could still fit in an hex, but what is it people do to manage the space with a base full of elementals that you have to stack with a 'mech? And of course, the idea of a friggin' ontos taking up the whole hex is even more daunting then bipedal 'mechs in this stackable world.

So yeah, how does one efficiently stack units?

I never mounted vees on hex bases before and most of them can fit two in a hex base, or will only have a little overlap into adjacent ones (with notable exceptions like the Mars).  But even if you were to pop the new plastics off their bases they're bigger than the plastics in many cases so lining them up in a hex might not work. The Mercenaries box is coming with a counter sheet and according to one of the Adepticon streams part of that is so you can replace a mini with a counter if you need to stack them.

[Jal Phoenix]

While those resemble Vulture legs, they're not genuine Vulture legs. As the B'wacker was based on Vulture schematics & parts, the similarity is perhaps not surprising.

What's that he's standing on, though?