Campaign Rules: Against the Bot Thread #2

[Snimm]

Kickstarting the campaign thread again.

To lead off from near the end of the last thread, I right-clicked on my Dragoon rating in MekHQ, and it did indeed show me the breakdown.  However, I noted that I actually have 5 Mechs that I would assume are considered level 2 - a Pillager-3Z, Highlander-732, 2 GRF-2N, and a Galahad.  The technology section says I only have two.  Anybody have any idea why only two of my Mechs are considered IS level 2 (I'm using the Taharqa Dragoon rating, by the by)?

[Makinus]

Just securing the 2nd post so i can attach the future updates here.....

2.27 update: see post #365
2.28 update: see post #538
2.29 update: see post #665

[Skyth]

Oh lookee here...New thread to watch :)

[Jayof9s]

I did, only they were mechtechs.  I hired 30 (no extra astechs though) and my support rating went to 100%.  I ran the math and when you include the DropShip it equals 39.22% tech support (prior to hiring all the extras), round all fractions down and that comes to 39%.  Exactly what the MekHQ was showing.  It just should not include DropShips and JumpShips.  And even though it's not specified, it probably should not include warships either.  Vessels tech support is handled by it's crew.

Can you post a bug report on the MekHQ project page? As you said, the rules are pretty clear that large ships technical needs are met (as long as they have a full crew) someone just forgot to exclude them.

[pfarland]

I noted that I actually have 5 Mechs that I would assume are considered level 2 - a Pillager-3Z, Highlander-732, 2 GRF-2N, and a Galahad.  The technology section says I only have two.  Anybody have any idea why only two of my Mechs are considered IS level 2 (I'm using the Taharqa Dragoon rating, by the by)?

I think you have to have a certain percentage to "level up"  ALL my mechs have at least some IS2 tech, though it doesn't count most of them as IS2.  I think I read that somewhere, TacOps maybe?

[Bonepart]

Anyone have any thoughts on how Contract payouts should go, or have the books with the rules for it?

I'm thinking maybe have 25% up front as the advance. Another 25% that is paid out monthly over the length of the contract, and the remaining 50% on success. How does that sound?

[mnmib1]

Can you post a bug report on the MekHQ project page? As you said, the rules are pretty clear that large ships technical needs are met (as long as they have a full crew) someone just forgot to exclude them.

Did this 5 minutes after I posted here.

[mnmib1]

I think you have to have a certain percentage to "level up"  ALL my mechs have at least some IS2 tech, though it doesn't count most of them as IS2.  I think I read that somewhere, TacOps maybe?

Per FMM:R, any technology that is level 2 would make the 'Mech count as level 2.  Your Dragoon's Rating would then increase for every 10% above 30% of level 2 technology.

[mnmib1]

Anyone have any thoughts on how Contract payouts should go, or have the books with the rules for it?

I'm thinking maybe have 25% up front as the advance. Another 25% that is paid out monthly over the length of the contract, and the remaining 50% on success. How does that sound?

Per FMM:R, up to 25% may be taken as an advance, the balance to be paid in monthly installments.

[pfarland]

Sounds like another bug report then.  I have 25 mechs, 17 of which are assigned.  All of which have at least 2 pieces of IS2 tech,  I have 1 vehicle and that has IS2.  One is in the shop, and one on conversion.  It lists me as: "# Clan units: 2 (one solaris mech and the one in conversion, but it doesn't seem to count the conversion in total # of units); # IS2 units: 15 and Total as 23. Something is off here. 

[mnmib1]

Sounds like another bug report then.  I have 25 mechs, 17 of which are assigned.  All of which have at least 2 pieces of IS2 tech,  I have 1 vehicle and that has IS2.  One is in the shop, and one on conversion.  It lists me as: "# Clan units: 2 (one solaris mech and the one in conversion, but it doesn't seem to count the conversion in total # of units); # IS2 units: 15 and Total as 23. Something is off here.

Are you using the Taharqua method, or the FMM:R method.  Keep in mind that they must be in your TO&E to be counted.  I just purchased a Highlander 732, added a pilot, and added it to my TO&E, and my lvl 2. went from 2 to 3.  So make sure by adding and removing them from your TO&E.

[Bonepart]

Per FMM:R, up to 25% may be taken as an advance, the balance to be paid in monthly installments.

That kinda takes the pressure off of worrying about being successful though, doesn't it? Although I guess the current system (the sum paid at completion) used in these AtB rules was born out of necessity.

@Makinus
I would like to see what your take on this issue is. Given the ability, would you prefer to stick to the payout rules in FMM:R with your rules for figuring the contract fee, or go with a slightly modified version of the current system?

[mnmib1]

That kinda takes the pressure off of worrying about being successful though, doesn't it? Although I guess the current system (the sum paid at completion) used in these AtB rules was born out of necessity.

The contract payments for FMM:R are much lower.  What he's doing is giving a bonus (usually 1,000,000 C-Bills/monthe or more) at the end of the contract in addition to the standard payment.

[pfarland]

@ Mnmib1 - Using Taharqua's but it doesn't change when I switch it over.  Most of those are in my TO&E but the crazy thing is out of my 2 "clan" units the one is still in the shop!  It counts that but doesn't count others that are perfectly fine. I think I just realized what it is!  A lot of my units are custom (I pretty much keep at least one in the shop getting "souped up")  Some of which started out as IS2 but some were IS1 before I upgraded them.  I bet it's not looking at the upgrades, it's looking at the "Base Model" to tell whether it's IS1 or IS2!

[mnmib1]

@ Mnmib1 - Using Taharqua's but it doesn't change when I switch it over.  Most of those are in my TO&E but the crazy thing is out of my 2 "clan" units the one is still in the shop!  It counts that but doesn't count others that are perfectly fine. I think I just realized what it is!  A lot of my units are custom (I pretty much keep at least one in the shop getting "souped up")  Some of which started out as IS2 but some were IS1 before I upgraded them.  I bet it's not looking at the upgrades, it's looking at the "Base Model" to tell whether it's IS1 or IS2!

You should use the FMM:R method.  Taharqua's does not count tech, medical, or admin. support.  Also, check you .MTF files and see if they say rules lvl. 1 or 2.  If they are lvl. 2 tech they should be set to rules level 2.

[Bonepart]

The contract payments for FMM:R are much lower.  What he's doing is giving a bonus (usually 1,000,000 C-Bills/monthe or more) at the end of the contract in addition to the standard payment.

Well, yes. He is giving the bonus because you can't change the contract payouts in MekHQ currently. It's the only way to get your pay for the higher contract fees the AtB Rules use.

I can change that

I'd just like to know if he would prefer to keep the majority of the pay at the end of the contract or pay it out per the FMM:R rules.

[Jayof9s]

Anyone have any thoughts on how Contract payouts should go, or have the books with the rules for it?

MekHQ uses the rules from FM:Mercs revised for the basis of the campaign options available, including payment. The by the book payments are much lower than what is found in the AtB campaign. Personally I've always been pretty happy with the payments from the official rules since only one of the many units I've ever GM'd for ever had money issues and that was mostly due to a lot of mission failures / unit losses (and poor financial management) vs the campaigns fault really.

Almost everything in MekHQ follows the published rules for mercenary contracts / managing a unit. AtB is, to my understanding, loosely based off all that.

[Makinus]

As other already said, AtB rules use a different system than the one in FMM:R that is much higher... there are 2 main reasons for that: first. i find the FMM:R values too unrealistic on account of the cost of the equipment the Mercs expose to the risk of a contract - if i will put at risk my multimillion mech i want to be paid accordingly - and the 2nd reason is because of a exploit that the FMM:R rules allo: if you have a lot of infantry in your company the FMM:R will pay much more than if you had a bigger number of mechs.

As mnmib1 pointed out, the payout at the end of the contract is so we can work around the FMM:R method that MekHQ use, but if we can divide the value monthly (even allowing a 25% advance) i see it as a better method.

[Bonepart]

As other already said, AtB rules use a different system than the one in FMM:R that is much higher... there are 2 main reasons for that: first. i find the FMM:R values too unrealistic on account of the cost of the equipment the Mercs expose to the risk of a contract - if i will put at risk my multimillion mech i want to be paid accordingly - and the 2nd reason is because of a exploit that the FMM:R rules allo: if you have a lot of infantry in your company the FMM:R will pay much more than if you had a bigger number of mechs.

As mnmib1 pointed out, the payout at the end of the contract is so we can work around the FMM:R method that MekHQ use, but if we can divide the value monthly (even allowing a 25% advance) i see it as a better method.

Thanks! That is the method I'll go with once I get to that part.

Is there is list of Faction capitols around, or is it safe to assume that the starting planet MegaMek lists for a Faction is the capitol?

@Jayof9s
I should have been little more clear with my post. How MekHQ handles things is fine in general, and following the published rules is expected. I was asking more in the context of the AtB rules, given the ability to modify the defaults that MekHQ uses :)

[Davout73]

Is there is list of Faction capitols around, or is it safe to assume that the starting planet MegaMek lists for a Faction is the capitol?

Do you mean National capital, or regional capitals?

Dav

[Bonepart]

Do you mean National capital, or regional capitals?

Dav

National maybe? Which ever it means under the Contract Location Modifiers table, Faction Capital. For ensuring you get at least one contract offered from that faction.

[Jayof9s]

Is there is list of Faction capitols around, or is it safe to assume that the starting planet MegaMek lists for a Faction is the capitol?

MekHQ will start you at the faction capital for all the factions that you can choose to start as.

[pfarland]

You should use the FMM:R method.  Taharqua's does not count tech, medical, or admin. support.  Also, check you .MTF files and see if they say rules lvl. 1 or 2.  If they are lvl. 2 tech they should be set to rules level 2.

Might do that.  It does boost my rating up 9 points to B(93).  I'll check the MTF's when I get back home, but they wouldn't work if they have level 2 equipment and listed as level 1 right?

[mnmib1]

Might do that.  It does boost my rating up 9 points to B(93).  I'll check the MTF's when I get back home, but they wouldn't work if they have level 2 equipment and listed as level 1 right?

I think that they would still work, just the DR would not recognize them as l2.

[Bonepart]

MekHQ will start you at the faction capital for all the factions that you can choose to start as.

Thanks! I kinda figured that was what the starting planets were, but figured I better make sure

[Felime]

The rules reference map generation files coming with them, but I can't find them for the life of me. Would anyone happen to know where they are? The same question about the company template I've seen Makinus reference.

(any clues on why the .32 version of megamek bundled with the .17 mekHq refuses to let me give random armies to the bot would be awesome too. It also only works at all intermittently, but that's probably something on my end.)

[mnmib1]

The rules reference map generation files coming with them, but I can't find them for the life of me. Would anyone happen to know where they are? The same question about the company template I've seen Makinus reference.

(any clues on why the .32 version of megamek bundled with the .17 mekHq refuses to let me give random armies to the bot would be awesome too. It also only works at all intermittently, but that's probably something on my end.)

The map generation files are in the .zip.  After you unzip/unrar, you would take the files and place them in the MekHQ/data/boards folder.  When you start MM, go to the select map tab, generated map button, load, all files, the folder you saved the maps in, and select the appropriate .xml file. 

If by company template, you mean the company generation rules, they are on the 1st page of the spreadsheet.

As to why MegaMek won't allow the creation of random armies, you should ask in the MekHQ thread, and post a bug report.

[Felime]

The map generation files are in the .zip.  After you unzip/unrar, you would take the files and place them in the MekHQ/data/boards folder.  When you start MM, go to the select map tab, generated map button, load, all files, the folder you saved the maps in, and select the appropriate .xml file. 

If by company template, you mean the company generation rules, they are on the 1st page of the spreadsheet.

Found the maps, they're not in the current rules zip file, didn't realize they were in the .24 zip.

By template I mean:

Snimm:

- I just checked now and your settings for expreience/skills are not set for teh AtB rules.... i thought you used the blank company attached on the first thread of the rules thread and did not checked it before...., now i set it for the correct values (including the rule for the next update that gives 1xp for every 25 sucessfull task of the techs), the only change for your advancing pilot is that she spent 5 instead of 4 xp points to advance piloting from 6 to 5 (already set it for you).

I can't seem to find it anywhere in the old thread.

As for the technical issues, now that I'm less sick and more awake, I think they're probably a memory issue with java. I'll tinker with that first.

[mnmib1]

Found the maps, they're not in the current rules zip file, didn't realize they were in the .24 zip.

By template I mean:

I can't seem to find it anywhere in the old thread.

As for the technical issues, now that I'm less sick and more awake, I think they're probably a memory issue with java. I'll tinker with that first.

Those are the settings for experience on the MekHQ tab.  The proper settings are listed in the rules on the campaign tab, about halfway down.

[Jayof9s]

(any clues on why the .32 version of megamek bundled with the .17 mekHq refuses to let me give random armies to the bot would be awesome too. It also only works at all intermittently, but that's probably something on my end.)

I'm not sure why Create Random Armies is not letting you add forces for the bot suddenly but I can confirm it isn't working. Can you post a bug report on the megamek project page for that: Report a bug