Author Topic: Paint Chipping and Matte Spray Layers  (Read 2122 times)

jwt708

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Paint Chipping and Matte Spray Layers
« on: 25 May 2020, 09:11:46 »
Hello everyone!

I want to try something new based on some replies I got earlier. So being new to working with metal, first thing I found was that paint chips very easily! Like, I looked at a coupe minis wrong and the paint came off!!! >:(  Well, I'm exaggerating a little...

Anyway, I've got a couple primed, and I was thinking about putting a layer of Testors Dullcote on top of the primer, then painting over that. Once the first base layer is down maybe go over that with the dullcote, and repeat after every major layer?

Is this too much? Should I only spray after the primer then once the miniature is complete?

Last, do I really need to wait 24 hrs after the first coat of Dullcote? Because in my mind that would be a 24 hour wait after every layer, making a paint job take days and I would like to avoid that.

Any input is appreciated!

NeonKnight

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Re: Paint Chipping and Matte Spray Layers
« Reply #1 on: 25 May 2020, 09:33:32 »
primer
paint
2-3 Layers of a Gloss/Semi Gloss Coat
1 Layer of Dullcoat

Gloss/semi gloss tend to be thicker/hard than dullcoats, Dullcoats just take the shine away.
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dgorsman

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Re: Paint Chipping and Matte Spray Layers
« Reply #2 on: 25 May 2020, 15:44:43 »
Never had paint flake off a metal mini.  As with NeonNight above, I (spray) prime, paint, then (spray) clear coat.  Although I just go with one coat of dull, and sometimes hand-apply some high gloss to the canopy.
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Nomad

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Re: Paint Chipping and Matte Spray Layers
« Reply #3 on: 25 May 2020, 16:26:21 »
Your mini might have had some residues left over after manufacture - that's what I suspect caused the paint flaking. I know it's common in plastics to use a mold release agent that is somewhat oily, so primers will sometimes fail to stick if the mini isn't washed with soap and water first. I usually wash all mini parts with soap and water after cleaning mold lines and flash. Assemble and prime afterwards. For metals I'd stick with an oil/lacquer based primer - the typical auto primers other people generally suggest. I tend to go with more expensive model primers (Tamiya makes really nice ones), but it isn't a requirement. Vallejo makes a polyurethane primer as well that's non-toxic and can be brushed or airbrushed on (but you have to let it cure for at least 12 hours). My other suspect would be possibly painting the mini before the primer had enough time to completely cure - auto primers usually cure pretty quick, but if it's humid where you live, that might affect times.

As NK said, 1)primer, 2)paint, 3)gloss coat, 4) dull coat. Dull coats should not have to cure for 24 hours - these are usually lacquer-based and dry in about 10-20 minutes, depending on conditions. I'd wait about an hour between coats, but again, you won't need many. Oh, and wear a mask when you're handing that stuff - really nasty!

jwt708

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Re: Paint Chipping and Matte Spray Layers
« Reply #4 on: 25 May 2020, 19:39:05 »
Thanks everyone.

I washed and scrubbed them before painting, I probably didn't get a good primer coat on the areas. I went back, did some touch-ups and sprayed. Hopefully this alleviates future issues.

worktroll

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Re: Paint Chipping and Matte Spray Layers
« Reply #5 on: 25 May 2020, 19:44:37 »
Some paints are thinner than others. I love using Lifecolor paints, but they're very thin, with excellent colour coverage. It does mean that they make poor primes, and even bases will sometime rub off edges if you handle them. For prime, you want something maybe a little thicker, which dries nice and hard.
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jwt708

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Re: Paint Chipping and Matte Spray Layers
« Reply #6 on: 27 May 2020, 05:12:44 »
Thank you worktroll! I need to post my results.

Mohammed As`Zaman Bey

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Re: Paint Chipping and Matte Spray Layers
« Reply #7 on: 15 July 2020, 18:16:02 »
  Some people mistake priming as a base coat for their paints. That's wrong. The purpose of a decent primer is adhesion. A primer acts as a medium that allows the later layers of paint to cling to the surface being painted, which is why metal primers are optimized for metal surfaces and plastic primers are formulated for plastic surfaces.
 
  Different types of paints have different curing times -the time needed for the paint to properly dry before the next coat, which is why some paints come with instructions on use and every brand has its own characteristics. Some brands of acrylics remain flexible after curing while others may crack and chip while being handled. The paints for display minis might not endure constant handling. A good layer or two of clear helps with durability.


Two Guns Blazing

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Re: Paint Chipping and Matte Spray Layers
« Reply #8 on: 15 July 2020, 23:21:06 »
Testor's Dullcote is awesome because it has a very matt finish and it very rarely has any problems during application, I use it all the time as a last layer on miniatures, but due to its expense, for things like terrain I use other matt varnishes.

You absolutely do not need to wait 24 hours between applications of Testor's Dullcote...I have been using this stuff for years and years and on a good day, you can put a second coat on after 30 minutes, no problems...if it is cold and humid, I'd wait a few hours though. Make your coats light too, don't layer it on thick. Better to do 2 x light coats than 1 x thick coat.

For protection, Testor's Dullcote is only average, it certainly does not offer the best protection out of all the varnishes you could use.

For metal miniatures, you need to have a really good primer/undercoat...I always use a non-hobby orientated primer for metal, something that you use for automotive painting is good, I find they give a good solid prime on metal miniatures...paint as normal, then choose a really good gloss varnish. Gloss dries harder and is more durable than satin or matt...once the gloss varnish is dried, give it a couple of very light coats of Testor's Dullcote to remove the shine...and if you miss any parts like under arms where the spray didn't reach, cover that with a brush and matt varnish.

The Army Painter dips give an excellent finish in terms of durability for metal miniatures...if you found a suitable product that is similar, but in clear, it would make an excellent finish to prevent chipping and rubbing off of paint on metal miniatures...follow it by light coats of Testor's Dullcote to remove the shine.

pixelgeek

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Re: Paint Chipping and Matte Spray Layers
« Reply #9 on: 16 July 2020, 09:37:01 »
  Some people mistake priming as a base coat for their paints. That's wrong.

No, that is an opinion. I've been doing that for years and not had a problem.

Painted figures need to have protective varnish on them. NeonKnight's steps are an excellent way to protect figures. And, as noted, Dullcoat doesn't protect minis.

pixelgeek

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Re: Paint Chipping and Matte Spray Layers
« Reply #10 on: 16 July 2020, 09:38:53 »
For protection, Testor's Dullcote is only average, it certainly does not offer the best protection out of all the varnishes you could use.

I wouldn't ever rate it as average. Any protection you experience with it is accidental. It isn't intended as a varnish at all.

pixelgeek

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Re: Paint Chipping and Matte Spray Layers
« Reply #11 on: 16 July 2020, 09:40:28 »
Some paints are thinner than others. I love using Lifecolor paints, but they're very thin, with excellent colour coverage. It does mean that they make poor primes, and even bases will sometime rub off edges if you handle them. For prime, you want something maybe a little thicker, which dries nice and hard.

If it doesn't say that it is a primer on the bottle/can then don't use it as such. The composition of the two is quite different.