Armored Fighting Vehicles version M4 - are we going with that? Sure, man.

[Weirdo]

That's fair. I recently faced a problem, and my initial proposed solution was to reverse gravity in a small area.

[ANS Kamas P81]

Simple. Change the gravitational constant of the universe.

[Sharpnel]

Not an AFV, but if you want sexy + lasers, go look up the USS Portland.

LPDs are not sexy ... ever

[Cannonshop]

Not an AFV, but if you want sexy + lasers, go look up the USS Portland.

waaaait...are you saying it's not armored, that it doesn't fight, or that it's not a vehicle?

[Weirdo]

I know Burkes have a later of Kevlar armor around vital systems, but I cannot say if San Antonios do.

And even if it does, I'm fairly certain every poster in this thread knows what common parlance refers to when we speak of Armored Fighting Vehicles. :)

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I just want to slap a "Keep Portland Weird" sticker on the side of that laser.

[gyedid]

Hi folks,

I normally don't have much interest in the topic of this thread, but I came across this on BBC Future and thought the regular threadizens might find it interesting.
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20180531-the-wwi-tank-that-helped-change-warfare-forever

Be sure to watch the video of the restored unit in operation.

Cheers, Gabe

[HobbesHurlbut]

Hi folks,

I normally don't have much interest in the topic of this thread, but I came across this on BBC Future and thought the regular threadizens might find it interesting.
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20180531-the-wwi-tank-that-helped-change-warfare-forever

Be sure to watch the video of the restored unit in operation.

Cheers, Gabe

Vid: Awww look at that little tank puttering.


I noticed this part in the article:
"The FT had a long life. It was still a front-line tank more than 20 years later at the start of World War Two in both the Polish and French armies. By this time, however, it was considered slow and offered poor protection from anti-tank weapons.

Nonetheless, hundreds of FTs were committed to battle when the Germans invaded France in May 1940. Even afterwards, the Germans found use for them. They patrolled occupied Europe, protecting supplies, guarding airfields and supporting police.

When the Allies invaded Normandy in June 1944, they encountered FTs in German markings, thrown into the frontline in desperation. The last examples used in combat were in the Arab-Israeli War of 1948."
Wow, that remind me of the Age of War 'Mechs in 31st Century.

[DoctorMonkey]

Vid: Awww look at that little tank puttering.


I noticed this part in the article:
"The FT had a long life. It was still a front-line tank more than 20 years later at the start of World War Two in both the Polish and French armies. By this time, however, it was considered slow and offered poor protection from anti-tank weapons.

Nonetheless, hundreds of FTs were committed to battle when the Germans invaded France in May 1940. Even afterwards, the Germans found use for them. They patrolled occupied Europe, protecting supplies, guarding airfields and supporting police.

When the Allies invaded Normandy in June 1944, they encountered FTs in German markings, thrown into the frontline in desperation. The last examples used in combat were in the Arab-Israeli War of 1948."
Wow, that remind me of the Age of War 'Mechs in 31st Century.

it sounds a bit like the clip clop of a horse or horses, perhaps to help the mechanised cavalry feel less bad?


I wouldn't be surprised to find some FTs being thrown into the fight in the late 30th century!

[kato]

Nonetheless, hundreds of FTs were committed to battle when the Germans invaded France in May 1940.

About 500 units in nine battalions, with newly-formed tank battalions drawing from the about 1200 kept in reserve.

Wow, that remind me of the Age of War 'Mechs in 31st Century.

I tend to use the Thyssen-Henschel UR-416 APC as an "example" for BT-Style Military Equipment. Even production facilities for them crop up in the strangest places, they tend to turn up even with small resistance groups, some places use them in numbers where you wonder why they're even keeping them active.

It also features a pretty damn utilitarian design.

[Matti]

I tend to use the Thyssen-Henschel UR-416 APC as an "example" for BT-Style Military Equipment. Even production facilities for them crop up in the strangest places, they tend to turn up even with small resistance groups, some places use them in numbers where you wonder why they're even keeping them active.

It also features a pretty damn utilitarian design.

APC (Wheeled)

[gyedid]

it sounds a bit like the clip clop of a horse or horses, perhaps to help the mechanised cavalry feel less bad?


I wouldn't be surprised to find some FTs being thrown into the fight in the late 30th century!

I can't recall...was it included in XTRO:1945?  If not, somebody should whip up some 1945-style stats for it.
It seems to be the first true infantry support tank...so I don't think the turret gun would even end up translating as a light rifle cannon.  Maybe a light machine gun?

The article said it had a crew of 2, but the video showed only the one driver.  I look at how the FT was accessed and how little space the driver has...and I'm thinking this is the conceptual forerunner not just of modern tanks, but of things like...the Sloth and Fenrir battle armours, Protomechs, Gears, and ATs  ;D

cheers,

Gabe

[glitterboy2098]

I can't recall...was it included in XTRO:1945?  If not, somebody should whip up some 1945-style stats for it.
It seems to be the first true infantry support tank...so I don't think the turret gun would even end up translating as a light rifle cannon.  Maybe a light machine gun?

The article said it had a crew of 2, but the video showed only the one driver.  I look at how the FT was accessed and how little space the driver has...and I'm thinking this is the conceptual forerunner not just of modern tanks, but of things like...the Sloth and Fenrir battle armours, Protomechs, Gears, and ATs  ;D

cheers,

Gabe

definitely two crew on the Renault FT's and their clones. it was just really tight confines and less than ideal crew space layout




and the Germans were still using a few hundred of them as late as 1944, mainly for patrols and stuff like airfield defense.

[kato]

The "airfield defense" FTs were basically pillboxes. FTs towed into position and turned into a one-man bunker. The concept was later optimized for fortifications with Tobruk type bunkers getting at least three standardized variants with turret rings specifically for FT-17 turrets.

[gyedid]

That cutaway diagram sure makes the FT look like it's just one step above a "technical".  (Indeed, many modern jeeps and pickups could probably outmaneuver it).

For translating into XTRO:1945 stats, there were two major variants during WWI:  a machine gun variant, and a cannon variant.  The latter was equipped with this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puteaux_SA_18

Would this actually qualify as a light rifle cannon in BT terms?  Or is it more akin to something like the Zeus heavy rifle?

cheers,

Gabe

[kato]

Would this actually qualify as a light rifle cannon in BT terms?  Or is it more akin to something like the Zeus heavy rifle?

The gun is included in XTRO:1945 itself since it's the same one as mounted on the Renault R-35. At 37mm it's a medium recoilless rifle equivalent.

[glitterboy2098]

The gun is included in XTRO:1945 itself since it's the same one as mounted on the Renault R-35. At 37mm it's a medium recoilless rifle equivalent.

talk about being over generous to make them useable in BT.

[HobbesHurlbut]

talk about being over generous to make them useable in BT.

It's not a direct translation. At very least the vehicles in the XTRO are to be used against each other. Or you can plop them down on a world on Pheriphary that is cut off from rest of the Inner Sphere.

[glitterboy2098]

just meant that as a low velocity 37mm, it would be more like a grenade launcher IRL, so at a light rifle would seem more fitting, given the lack of any sort of mech scale multi-use grenade launcher system.

[Matti]

It's not a direct translation. At very least the vehicles in the XTRO are to be used against each other. Or you can plop them down on a world on Pheriphary that is cut off from rest of the Inner Sphere.

If you're looking for some low-tech crap for low-tech crapsack world, I've got an offer for you 8)

[kato]

600m/s for 37mm (M1935 APCR ammunition) isn't really low-velocity. The postwar 30mm DEFA/ADEN caliber, which is still used e.g. on the Apache, delivers about the same effective impact energy on target per shot.

The medium recoilless rifle comparison is actually a good one in my opinion - there was the 37mm Canon d'Infanterie de 37 modele 1916 TRP, which filled exactly the medium recoilless rifle position operationally, was used by about everyone in WW2 up to 1945 and used the exact same ammunition and virtually the same, slightly lower-weight gun (breech block wasn't the same).

[ANS Kamas P81]

Guys, remember - it's not a light or medium rifle, like the vehicle scale weapon, it's the infantry-scale Recoilless Rifle.  So it's barely doing anything to 'Mech armor.

[gyedid]

Guys, remember - it's not a light or medium rifle, like the vehicle scale weapon, it's the infantry-scale Recoilless Rifle.  So it's barely doing anything to 'Mech armor.

Well, the Wikipedia article did note the Puteaux's poor anti-armour capability even in its own day, so...

Cheers, Gabe

[Kidd]

And on the other end of the scale... the sole prototype Leclerc with a 140mm gun, and one of the reasons it remains experimental

[kato]

the sole prototype Leclerc with a 140mm gun

It's actually recently cobbled together, around 2015. The turret was built in 1996, and only used to test the gun and autoloader from a stand (there was no chassis underneath). To prevent its scrapping some maintenance guys in the Army got the idea that they had a first-generation Leclerc around that had been declawed as a Leclerc MARS* - so they mounted it on that and call the whole thing a "technology demonstrator".

* (removing gun, autoloader and sights from turret but leaving it in place, used as recovery vehicle after orders for dedicated stretched Leclerc DCL/DNG ARVs were cut)

[DoctorMonkey]

fixed, one piece ammunition really starts to get big and splitting them (as per the L30 CHARM) starts to look more and more sensible to me

[glitterboy2098]

given the 125mm's on the T-64, T-72, T-80, and T-90 use two piece ammo to allow autoloading, i'm surprised no one went that with the 140mm..

[VhenRa]

given the 125mm's on the T-64, T-72, T-80, and T-90 use two piece ammo to allow autoloading, i'm surprised no one went that with the 140mm..

Of course, that ammunition layout on the T-64/72/80/90 makes the tank much much more dangerous to be in compared to designs like an Abrams or Leopard 2.

That right there is the cause of all those catastrophic ammo explosions you saw from the Gulf Wars and stuff like Syria. Its the cause of all those jack-in-the-box turret flying off.

[DoctorMonkey]

That's an auto-loader issue rather than an ammunition issue isn't it?


The separate ammunition allows it to be fitted into different "safe" stores and the changes needed to the ammunition handling and storage are one of the main reasons given for not changing the Challenger 2 to a smoothbore 120mm gun


I have certainly not heard anything about the two piece ammunition being a reason for the British tanks having a slower rate of fire than the Leopard 2 or M1s


What I don't know (at all) is how "safe" the French LeClerc's auto-loader is compared with the Russian-style designs in your animation in terms of the ammunition storage, handling etc

[Sabelkatten]

As I understand it the ammo storage in the LeClerk is quite similar to the M1, so it should be about as safe?