Author Topic: Armored Fighting Vehicles version M4 - are we going with that? Sure, man.  (Read 198883 times)

ANS Kamas P81

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They've claimed that since the 1960s with each new SAM that comes out, as well as claims that THE TANK IS DEAD with ATGMs and such.

There is no wonderweapon.  There's improvements, and then there's counters, and the cycle goes on.
Der Hölle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen,
Tod und Verzweiflung flammet um mich her!
Fühlt nicht durch dich Jadefalke Todesschmerzen,
So bist du meine Tochter nimmermehr!

grimlock1

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They've claimed that since the 1960s with each new SAM that comes out, as well as claims that THE TANK IS DEAD with ATGMs and such.

There is no wonderweapon.  There's improvements, and then there's counters, and the cycle goes on.
Don't tell me how fancy your tech is. 

Tell me how dedicated are the people operating it.

Up to a point.
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Apollo's Law- if it needs Clan tech to make it useable, It doesn't deserve those resources in the first place.
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.

Fat Guy

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Let's get some actual pictures back in this thread.   ;)

Every time I look at a K2 Black Panther, I've got to wonder is that turret as cramped as it looks?

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Corky

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Flames of war and team yankee is just napoleonic games where you might as well use a pizza box to move dozens of tanks in one formation, TERRIBLE assault rules as a bonus.
Fist Full Of Tows 3 would do great with force disparity.

Matti

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Uhm... How did we end up talking about war games in this topic? ???
You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

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We didn't. C:-)
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Fat Guy

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The Akrep IIe technology demonstrator, Turkey's first electric armored vehicle:

I have spoken.


CDAT

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The Akrep IIe technology demonstrator, Turkey's first electric armored vehicle:



Looks cool, but with all the windows I am not sure how well it would work as an armored vehicle. Yes you can have ballistic glass but maybe it is just me, I expect an armored vehicle to be able to take at least small arms and frag with out reducing its ability to function. A few small arms rounds into the windows and I am not sure how well you would be able to see with the spider-webbing?

ANS Kamas P81

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Better than you'd think.

While you can't see through the circlular areas directly, there's more than enough visibiity to move your head a little and maintain complete awareness.
Der Hölle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen,
Tod und Verzweiflung flammet um mich her!
Fühlt nicht durch dich Jadefalke Todesschmerzen,
So bist du meine Tochter nimmermehr!

CDAT

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Better than you'd think.

While you can't see through the circlular areas directly, there's more than enough visibiity to move your head a little and maintain complete awareness.

If you are able to move, I am out now, but when I was still in some times depending on the vehicle being able to move any was difficult. For example when I was driving an armored hummer with my vest and all that the steering wheel was rubbing against my magazines on my chest, so I could not bend forward or back to change my point of view I was limited to only as much as I could move my head and with as short of a neck as I have when I was wearing the IBA collar as I was supposed to that was very limited (main reason I almost never did). So that is where my concern comes from, most of these types of vehicles that I have work with in my time in uniform the testing did not look like it was done in combat gear, but more ideal settings. But the vehicle still looks super cool.

ANS Kamas P81

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I'll definitely concede the point on encumbrance and difficulty moving with all the gear, certainly.  But even if you're completely fixed, you can still get a little bit of visibility out the edges or something, unless you've taken a LOT of rounds there.  I'm thinking of things like 'emergency driving if you lose a hood latch at speed' and trying to see either through the gap at the bottom or the vent, and picking a path with limited visibility.

Not to disparage anything as well but it seems like that bulk problem's being considered; is it just me or are a lot of these lighter armored vehicles built roomier?  Looking at how much interior space there is from those windshields, compared to the armored HMMWV.  Then again, a lot of it might be taken up by that turret's hardware, so...maybe not?
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DoctorMonkey

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My guess would be it is mostly intended as an internal security vehicle in which case the appearance of being more like a normal car may be worth the risk of the windows for most operations (also added visability/situational awareness on patrol) but hopefully armoured panels can be added/swapped in if needed (or alternatively the whole vehicle swapped for something more strongly built like an MRAP)
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kato

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My guess would be it is mostly intended as an internal security vehicle
Otokar is positioning the Akrep II as a possible successor for its previous line of Akrep I vehicles. The Akrep I, which did in fact use automotive components from the HMMWV, is more commonly known as the Otokar Cobra and (modernized, rebuilt) Cobra II.

Turkey, Nigeria, Pakistan and Bangladesh as the main users of the Cobra all use them for internal security for the most part. The only somewhat symmetric uses were in the South Ossetia War by Georgia and in its invasion of Syria by Turkey, usually in recon or heavy infantry weapon carrier roles. There are videos from such operations showing them surviving RPG hits, though realistically they're about comparable in performance in that regard to e.g. French VBLs or German/Dutch Fenneks (which also have comparable large-sized windows btw).

is it just me or are a lot of these lighter armored vehicles built roomier?  Looking at how much interior space there is from those windshields, compared to the armored HMMWV.  Then again, a lot of it might be taken up by that turret's hardware, so...maybe not?
Interior of the Akrep II mockup, a bit too clean of course:



Turret is presumably meant to be self-contained and remote-controlled, it's not like it'd really sell otherwise. Outer frame of the vehicle is rather comparable in size to a Cobra II.

The rather more realistic actual Cobra II is rather roomy for its purpose too (... it also weighs twice as much as a uparmored M1114 HMMWV). This is the infantry mobility version - two canvas seats for driver and commander to the right, center seat for gunner flipped forward to stand on, two benches in the back for three people sitting on each side:

« Last Edit: 03 May 2019, 13:17:55 by kato »

grimlock1

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Is it an artifact or does the driver's station in that mockup look to be in the center line of the vehicle?

Wasn't someone messing with that in the early days of JLTV? 
I'm rarely right... Except when I am.  ---  Idle question.  What is the BV2 of dread?
Apollo's Law- if it needs Clan tech to make it useable, It doesn't deserve those resources in the first place.
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.

kato

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Yeah, the driver sits centerline.

Fat Guy

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Want a temporary winter camouflage quickly and cheaply? These Russian BMPs are using newspaper!

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CDAT

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Want a temporary winter camouflage quickly and cheaply? These Russian BMPs are using newspaper!



This is one of the coolest things that I have seen in sometime. I would love to have a unit or two painted up to look like this, but not sure if it would work at 6mm.

Orin J.

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This is one of the coolest things that I have seen in sometime. I would love to have a unit or two painted up to look like this, but not sure if it would work at 6mm.
...maybe there's someone that makes custom water transfers?  :-\
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Feenix74

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Paper mache - the ultimate in digicam (noting that most newspapers are now digitally produced).
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Van Gogh

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And thanks to page 3 (at least in the  UK), this camouflage comes with built-in nose "art"  ;D

DoctorMonkey

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This is a colourised photo taken from
http://www.womensystems.com/2018/04/50-breathtaking-wwii-colorized-photos.html and I think it neatly shows the British response to adversity - tank overturned but you all survived? get a quick brew on while waiting for REME[/size][/color]
The crew of an up-ended (M4A1) Sherman tank of the 7th Armoured Brigade enjoy a ‘brew’ beside their vehicle while waiting for a recovery team, on the 'Gothic Line' in Italy, 13th of September 1944. Their tank overturned after slipping off a narrow road in the dark. (Source - IWM NA 18551 - Dawson (Sgt), No 2 Army Film & Photographic Unit. Colourised by Royston Leonard UK)
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ANS Kamas P81

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At least they've got the excuse of broken terrain, what about these poor guys?
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Fühlt nicht durch dich Jadefalke Todesschmerzen,
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HobbesHurlbut

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Flipped during a sharp turn at high speed, my guess.
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DoctorMonkey

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a bug got into the driver's compartment and he panicked?
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ANS Kamas P81

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Flipped during a sharp turn at high speed, my guess.
Same, you can see some dirt and small rock debris on the far side of the turret, but that's still impressive it didn't throw a track or something.  I feel sorry for the turret crew; there's no belly escape hatch on the T-72 series is there?  Things are uncomfortable enough as it is; stuck inside there upside down...
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Fühlt nicht durch dich Jadefalke Todesschmerzen,
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Sharpnel

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Driver probably didn't get out either as the gun looks like it blocking the hatch.
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Ivan needs to lay off the vodka...

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Daryk

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 :o

That takes work... how on earth did they manage that "accidentally"??

kato

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there's no belly escape hatch on the T-72 series is there?
It's right behind the driver's seat.