Author Topic: Why no Bushman? (Read 2662 times)

1000Foot · « **on:** 08 May 2020, 08:36:35 »

As a kid I built a number of Revell's Robotech model kits, my favorite being the Condar (the Bushman design lifted from Dougram). All of the unseen that appeared in the Robotech line are near to my heart, but I'm curious why some of the designs never appeared as battlemechs.

The Bushman must have been part of the same license as the Blockhead, Roundfacer, etc. Anyone know why FASA never used those designs even before the whole legal entanglements began?

Sartris · « **Reply #1 on:** 08 May 2020, 08:53:35 »

were there any not used besides the bushman or nicholiev?

Cache · « **Reply #2 on:** 08 May 2020, 09:21:37 »

Quote from: Sartris on 08 May 2020, 08:53:35

were there any not used besides the bushman or nicholiev?

Mackerel as well.

Natasha Kerensky · « **Reply #3 on:** 08 May 2020, 10:18:11 »

No idea, but the Bushman looks like it requires an SRM-6 in the head to match the art, which would not fit until Clantech or small cockpits came along later.

The Nicholiev should be workable. Dual peepers or AC/10s in the right torso (ammo elsewhere), trio of medium or small lasers in each “arm”, and an SRM-6 in each leg. It’s like a Battlemaster that did the Banshee-s conversion to a 3/5 engine and went through a washing machine.

The Mackarel is obviously an underwater design and would have to wait for torpedos, UMUs, etc. to match its art.

Luciora · « **Reply #4 on:** 08 May 2020, 10:46:41 »

Moderation when buying licenses for designs probably played a big part. Considering the 80s era, it still costs money for a beer and pretzels skirmish game. I don't think the developers at the time were envisioning the game getting as far as it has, nor thinking they needed to get every single unit into the game at the time.

Also, I'd consider either dual SRM loadouts of the Griffin or Wolverine a nice bit of a callback to the Bushman, given the new place the game is at.

Also, why bring up old specters of licenses past.

1000Foot · « **Reply #5 on:** 08 May 2020, 10:50:20 »

Quote from: Natasha Kerensky on 08 May 2020, 10:18:11

No idea, but the Bushman looks like it requires an SRM-6 in the head to match the art, which would not fit until Clantech or small cockpits came along later.

That's what I was thinking, but with the amount of rework the Wasp and Ostsol / Ostrocs got from the original designs I could see them just moving the SRM6s into side torsos.

carlisimo · « **Reply #6 on:** 08 May 2020, 13:12:16 »

I wasn't familiar with the Bushman, but it looks like it could've inspired the Grasshopper.

Colt Ward · « **Reply #7 on:** 08 May 2020, 13:26:10 »

After checking the image . . . I do not think its too far off the Griffin, the RA weapon looks like some of the old Wolverine guns, and it has bits of TBolt . . . nothing keeps you from using one as a frankenmech or even custom in your own games!

Ghaz · « **Reply #8 on:** 08 May 2020, 14:32:49 »

Quote from: Natasha Kerensky on 08 May 2020, 10:18:11

No idea, but the Bushman looks like it requires an SRM-6 in the head to match the art, which would not fit until Clantech or small cockpits came along later.

Googling the image for the Bushman it looks like it would two SRM-6 launchers in the head...

Giovanni Blasini · « **Reply #9 on:** 08 May 2020, 16:15:41 »

Quote from: Ghaz on 08 May 2020, 14:32:49

Googling the image for the Bushman it looks like it would two SRM-6 launchers in the head...

Alternatively, could've been a missed opportunity to introduce the RL10 decades ahead of when it was.

Deadborder · « **Reply #10 on:** 08 May 2020, 17:44:46 »

It's not like there's exactly a fantastic match between the number of missile tubes in the original of the unseen art versus the number on the 'Mech stats to begin with. The Thunderbolt's LRM-15 is a great example. Giving a hypothetical Bushman a SRM-4 or LRM-5 in the head wouldn't be a stretch at all.

With that being said, the most logical answer for "why no Bushman" (Or Mackerel or Nicholiev for that matter) probably comes down to either a) what kits TCI had purchased and b) what kits FASA in turn were happy to licence.

Technically there is a Bushman in a BattleTech product. One appears in a single panel of Spider and the Wolf, courtesy of copied art from DC's Robotech Defenders miniseries.

Luciora · « **Reply #11 on:** 08 May 2020, 17:58:18 »

Interesting what-if. Before XTRO:Boondoggles, the Liberator was still a virtual unknown. What if that was supposed to have been the Liberator?

Liam's Ghost · « **Reply #12 on:** 08 May 2020, 18:35:10 »

Quote from: Natasha Kerensky on 08 May 2020, 10:18:11

No idea, but the Bushman looks like it requires an SRM-6 in the head to match the art, which would not fit until Clantech or small cockpits came along later.

The locations are ambiguously defined, so I could see those SRM launchers being mounted in the side torsos, maybe with the ammo in the head to emphasize how close they are.

Luciora · « **Reply #13 on:** 08 May 2020, 18:38:50 »

A few mechs have arm mounted weapons located on the torso. Here's looking at you Warhawk.

RifleMech · « **Reply #14 on:** 09 May 2020, 01:30:46 »

There were several variants that weren't used that appeared in the series as well as some variations that are outside the series that upgraded the ones in the series or were made for civilians. There were also a lot of vehicles that never made it either.

I've got no clue as to what was actually licensed or not so I don't know if the Bushman was or not. I'd have to guess that the reason it didn't appear with the other Unseen is that they weren't sure what to do with it. It's got elements of the Roundfacer (Griffin), Dougram (Shadow Hawk) and Blockhead (Wolverine). As those three already cover each other pretty well what's the Bushman to do? With all the other mechs they had at the time they probably just dropped it.

As for the 6 shot missile launchers in the head, I wouldn't worry about it. I don't think any of the unseen matched their original stats exactly. Like others have said they could have ended up as an SRM-6 in each side torso. Or LRM-5s or one of each.

With the other missing Dougram Mechs I think the Desert Gunner with 6 legs was probably more complicated than they wanted to go . The Mackerel is super specialized. It would work now though. The Nicholiev I'd guess they didn't know what to do with it or how to make one.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire · « **Reply #15 on:** 11 May 2020, 13:56:36 »

Quote from: Liam's Ghost on 08 May 2020, 18:35:10

The locations are ambiguously defined, so I could see those SRM launchers being mounted in the side torsos, maybe with the ammo in the head to emphasize how close they are.

Like the 3S and 5S models of the Banshee?

Sartris · « **Reply #16 on:** 11 May 2020, 22:26:43 »

Quote from: RifleMech on 09 May 2020, 01:30:46

The Nicholiev I'd guess they didn't know what to do with it or how to make one.

they knew exactly what to do with it: leave that uggo it out ;D

RifleMech · « **Reply #17 on:** 12 May 2020, 02:35:31 »

Quote from: Sartris on 11 May 2020, 22:26:43

they knew exactly what to do with it: leave that uggo it out ;D

I don't know that I'd call it uggo. There's other mechs that are way ugglier.

Sartris · « **Reply #18 on:** 12 May 2020, 15:34:23 »

compared to the others it doesn't fit. ufo with legs.

RifleMech · « **Reply #19 on:** 12 May 2020, 15:46:16 »

Quote from: Sartris on 12 May 2020, 15:34:23

compared to the others it doesn't fit. ufo with legs.

???

We have trashcans with legs and Airplanes with legs. A UFO with legs fits in fine. The clear lack of any arms though...All the other biped Mechs can at least claim to have a kind of minimal arm. Can't do that with the Nicholiev

Sartris · « **Reply #20 on:** 12 May 2020, 15:49:41 »

agree to disagree. it doesn't belong (no one asked for the bad art later, either)

RifleMech · « **Reply #21 on:** 12 May 2020, 16:11:00 »

No problem. :thumbsup:

Deadborder · « **Reply #22 on:** 12 May 2020, 17:34:10 »

Another thing to consider: the TCI Battledroids/Battletech kit line didn't have a Longbow release. It's entirely possible that they didn't have a Bushman kit ti release either.

RifleMech · « **Reply #23 on:** 13 May 2020, 02:45:03 »

It's possible. The Ostroc Mk II did have a model though and it was never seen again.