Author Topic: Enter the Fray  (Read 13633 times)

idea weenie

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Re: Enter the Fray
« Reply #120 on: 18 June 2020, 20:18:02 »
If it works at all, it would only be when all three bodies are aligned.  If the planet-moon line is perpendicular to the planet-sun line, there's no cancellation of the stars gravitational field between the planet and moon.

It works, but moves the low-G region closer to the star (and likely towards the moon, so its gravity can offset the star's).  You calculate the low-G point between the planet and moon, then move it towards the star slightly to counteract the star's gravity.  This of it this way: if you drop something on the moon, does it fall into the Sun, or onto the Moon?

Pirate points for planet-star exist in Battletech (Strategic Operations, p133 - the Transit Time chart, right-hand column: Transit to Sol-Planet L1 point).  Even though Terra's jump limit for Sol is ~10 AU, there is a pirate point between Terra and Sol.  That distance is obviously less than 10 AU, and obviously within Sol's jump limit.  That point is still a three-body problem, as Luna provides a small amount of gravity, even at that distance.

By a similar process there is a pirate point between Terra and Luna, so that the Sun's gravity barely changes at that distance, while the angled gravity sources from Terra and Luna can rise sufficiently to reduce the net gravity to be low enough to allow a KF jump to occur.  It is a difficult target (as listed in the rules with a 4 pt penalty to the target number), but it still exists.


A rough example would be imagining a 3-body problem, where there are a pair of twin planets orbiting a common center, and the local star.  If you can pick a point so there is a gross of .01G pulling at a direction of 10 o'clock (from planet A), a gross value of .01G pulling from 2 o'clock (planet B), and a gross of .01G pulling from 6 o'clock (the local star), the three sources of gravity effectively null each other out at that specific spot.  It won't last that long as the two planet rotate about their common center, but for a brief period of time the gravity at that location will be low enough.

Edit - had to change one word
« Last Edit: 06 July 2020, 00:52:07 by idea weenie »

monbvol

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Re: Enter the Fray
« Reply #121 on: 18 June 2020, 21:23:53 »
Though that probably should be all the more we deal with jump points, orbital mechanics, and what not as anything further probably belongs in a rules forum or ask the writers question thread.

But not quite done with science though.  I'm trying to devote more time/research to Colonist's Disease.  I think I have it in a reasonably scientifically plausible state in terms of displayed symptoms.  Which I should relist since it has been a while.

-Altered neural chemistry, which is a big deal for mechwarriors and asf pilots as it is how it interferes with their ability to properly interface with neurohelmets and their vehicle.  This effect is progressive, in other words it isn't completely debilitating at first but left unchecked will render a person completely unable to pilot a mech or asf in combat conditions.  Since fluff does allow techs to move mechs around without neurohelmets such non-combat/extreme operations should still be possible.

-From what I've found for how this change in neural chemistry would manifest this would primarily be in the forms of chronic headaches, an inability to focus, and even potentially personality changes.

-It ends mechwarrior lines and keeps new ones from getting started mostly by fact of the mother passing it to their child and it progressing to the late stages before they can even be trained.

-To achieve the kind of social isolation I need for Galen the infection vector that works best towards this end is air borne.

-In the biosphere of the colony it is about as deadly as the common cold(which does kill people under certain conditions).

Daryk

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Re: Enter the Fray
« Reply #122 on: 19 June 2020, 03:59:05 »
Idea Weenie is on the right track, but I think we're all tired of orbital mechanics.  I'll take it to PM.

Re: Colonists' Disease, airborne works, but there's no reason it has to be the only vector, right?

monbvol

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Re: Enter the Fray
« Reply #123 on: 19 June 2020, 09:55:42 »
Ultimately yeah pirate points, especially planet moon lagrange points, have been a part of the setting for a long time and used quite happily without Jumpships getting stuck in the fiction so the science behind them probably isn't fully meshed with what we know in reality but those sections of Strat Ops were written by cray who knows his stuff pretty well and did his best to make it work.  But yeah it probably needs to go to another thread or other avenue of discussion.

Well I am kind of talking broad terms for transmission vector and certainly there are pretty universal secondary transmission vectors.  Bodily fluids, sneezing it onto a surface, stuff like that.

A lot of the trouble in getting more specific is finding a way where keeping Galen and Heather from dating would be socially accepted, at least in the short term opening of the story phase*, but the disease understood and controlable enough that they could still be allowed out of their family estate but someone screwing up to spread it to Ian and Heather anyway but not Galen.

*Yeah really going to have to think on how to work it so that the colony is okay with Galen and Heather not dating/settling down because despite the enlarged population I am willing to go with there should actually still be those who are saying the risk needs taken anyway so that they are not the last generation of mechwarriors.  Others that would say there is an extreme measure they could take to ensure they are not the last generation of mechwarriors without taking any extra risk.  If you can't figure out what that extreme measure is I will offer the additional hint of think Alaric Ward without iron womb technology or Clan eugenics programs.

Daryk

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Re: Enter the Fray
« Reply #124 on: 19 June 2020, 15:46:56 »
Maybe since they're part of the "ruling" family, they're too closely related to anyone of similar age?

monbvol

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Re: Enter the Fray
« Reply #125 on: 19 June 2020, 16:45:36 »
The tough part is the ability to pilot a mech is clearly inheritable but it also does not take both parents to have the ability themselves for that to happen.  It is not clear in the larger Battletech setting if it can randomly appear or is a case of previously undiscovered talent when someone with no known relatives able to pilot mechs.

So without Colonist Disease 12 mechwarriors should be able to have plenty of genetic diversity for that to not be a problem.

The risk in this case would be more of the sense of Galen and Heather being more likely exposed to Colonist Disease by dating/settling down than inbreeding.  Which ironically is what would lead some to suggest inbreeding would then be the answer to ensure a new generation without increased exposure to Colonist's Disease.

Which is something I would rather steer away from but still cannot deny that with the constraints I have setup for my story is a plausible response to the situation the colony finds itself in.  At least for some of the more Hawkish members.  For the Doves they'd probably be asking if the militia is even needed anymore until the initial pirate raid and the arrival of the Clans.

Daryk

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Re: Enter the Fray
« Reply #126 on: 19 June 2020, 16:47:58 »
They SHOULD be able to have sufficient diversity yes, but say the age groupings just don't work out for the moment...

monbvol

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Re: Enter the Fray
« Reply #127 on: 19 June 2020, 17:03:23 »
The debates that would go on about which moral standard to break would be quite insane I imagine.

Daryk

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Re: Enter the Fray
« Reply #128 on: 19 June 2020, 17:16:57 »
Heh, the debates alone would prevent the dating, I think...

monbvol

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Re: Enter the Fray
« Reply #129 on: 22 June 2020, 17:09:22 »
Kind of realized something.

As much as it is caused by a disease there is an entire medical discipline and drug industry that deals with neural chemical imbalances.

The psychological disciplines and the associated drugs.

The trouble is without knowing what neural chemicals are most desirable for making a proper interface* with a neuro helmet I can not even begin to scratch the surface of which of these drugs would be most effective in retaining this ability or what kind of mood/personality swings would happen as a result of these shifting imbalances and the application of various drugs.

But the psychologists in story would know and would thus at least be able to figure out how to treat some of the symptoms but not be able to do anything about the root cause since it is a genetic aberration brought on by an infectious disease.

Which brings me back to my vaccine and cure.  Both of which I still have no where near enough information to do anything but handwave as they work and would like to make imperfect via side effects as that seems reasonable given the limited resources of the colony but again not enough information available to even begin to figure out anything better than to handwave them as being acceptable limitations/side effects to outsiders so people can be allowed to travel to and from the colony.

*The Clan breeding programs fluff even call out that they do engineer in neural chemical changes to make their Mechwarrior phenotype more able to interface with neuro helmets.  So there is clearly specific neural chemicals that are more desirable for such a purpose.

Daryk

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Re: Enter the Fray
« Reply #130 on: 22 June 2020, 17:40:15 »
I wouldn't worry about the hand waving... TPTB never did...

monbvol

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Re: Enter the Fray
« Reply #131 on: 22 June 2020, 18:07:28 »
*nod*

It is just that sometimes I think I might be better off coming up with a different explanation that keeps Heather and Galen from dating but still allowed to leave the family complex to work as Astechs in the mechbay, still results in Galen being the only available mechwarrior to defend the colony when Naomi shows up, but I can still conceivably reverse without much issue.

Dave Talley

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Re: Enter the Fray
« Reply #132 on: 22 June 2020, 21:30:21 »
find a star trek/SF random doohickey name generator and dont worry about it
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monbvol

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Re: Enter the Fray
« Reply #133 on: 22 June 2020, 21:40:47 »
Ultimately I'll almost certainly keep with Colonist's Disease because I am lazy and it does seem to need the least handwaving.

Daryk

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Re: Enter the Fray
« Reply #134 on: 23 June 2020, 03:40:04 »
You could also just shorten it to "CD"...

monbvol

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Re: Enter the Fray
« Reply #135 on: 23 June 2020, 11:48:23 »
Hmm yeah the colonist's probably would have a shorthand term for it and as long as I was consistent in using it there should be no problems for my readers to keep it straight for what I am referring to.

idea weenie

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Re: Enter the Fray
« Reply #136 on: 23 June 2020, 22:38:11 »
  Ultimately I'll almost certainly keep with Colonist's Disease because I am lazy and it does seem to need the least handwaving. 

ColDis-##, where ## is the year that strain of it was identified?   ;D

monbvol

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Re: Enter the Fray
« Reply #137 on: 23 June 2020, 23:44:28 »
Might be a bit much.  :P

 

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