How much access to information was there in the CC and DC?

[Precentor Scorpio]

While the question of intercepting HPG transmissions is being discussed elsewhere, potential sources of Intel for Wolfnet include: financial reports, libraries, news reports, mercenary activity on Galetea, Solaris VIi intrigue, etc etc.   
So how much information would be available to citizens of the CC and DC from 3005 to 3030?
During 3005,  the Dragoons might concentrate their military analysis on the CC, but concentrate their economic and society analysis on the FS.  When the Dragoons moved onto the CC.  The FWL would be the military Intel target and the CC would now be the economic and society target.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

Since the Great Houses didn't control ComStar, there wasn't much in the way of keeping ComStar propaganda/"news" from being broadcast throughout their realms.

In the case of Liao and Kurita however, they do have castes.  You can't stop the ComStar (or for that matter foreign) broadcasts, but you can make it illegal for your plebes to own a unit able to recieve such broadcasts.  But at best that's limiting consumption of unapproved media to underground and black markets.  It's probably the rare DC or CC world that tries to go full totalitarian mode and control the media.  It's just too much trouble for the partial benefit.

[Fallen_Raven]

For the Combine its very dependent on which planet and which era. They've had everything from pachinko parlors and salarymen to full blown argrarian serfdom. So some places have film censorship boards from the O5P ensuring wholesome content, in some places people can only read a specific version of kanji. And the caste system complicates things as people like undertakers can have some very significant access to medical knowledge well above their station, and the yakuza might have the shipping manifests for LAW for the last 6 years.

[Sir Chaos]

Since the Great Houses didn't control ComStar, there wasn't much in the way of keeping ComStar propaganda/"news" from being broadcast throughout their realms.

In the case of Liao and Kurita however, they do have castes.  You can't stop the ComStar (or for that matter foreign) broadcasts, but you can make it illegal for your plebes to own a unit able to recieve such broadcasts.  But at best that's limiting consumption of unapproved media to underground and black markets.  It's probably the rare DC or CC world that tries to go full totalitarian mode and control the media.  It's just too much trouble for the partial benefit.

ComStar broadcasts? They´re the phone company, not the BBC.

I was under the impression that ComStar sovereignty only covered their HPG compounds. The CC and DC should have been well within their rights to prohibit them from even notifying citizens that they had received a HPG message; they could certainly have pretended any message from leaving (and any citizens from entering) the HPG compounds.

[Garrand]

ISTR that Comstar also had a media empire going as well, so they're more than just the post office.

Damon.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

ComStar broadcasts? They´re the phone company, not the BBC.

I was under the impression that ComStar sovereignty only covered their HPG compounds. The CC and DC should have been well within their rights to prohibit them from even notifying citizens that they had received a HPG message; they could certainly have pretended any message from leaving (and any citizens from entering) the HPG compounds.

They're the Phone Company, AND the BBC, AND the Banking System, AND the UN. 

Anyway the ComStar News Bureau, specifically, is Space BBC.  And it's a branch of ComStar, obviously.  As is INN (Interstellar News Network). 

Some PoliSci 101 states that one of the definitive features of a Totalitarian government is control of the media.  That makes true Totalitarian states impossible following the fall of the Star League.  (however much the real world authors of the 2nd generation House Books might argue otherwise).   And not only can you not stop ComStar from broadcasting anything and everything they want, you really can't stop your rival Houses from broadcasting their propaganda on your worlds either.  Not when it's coming from the ComStar enclave.

[Pat Payne]

ComStar broadcasts? They´re the phone company, not the BBC.

I was under the impression that ComStar sovereignty only covered their HPG compounds. The CC and DC should have been well within their rights to prohibit them from even notifying citizens that they had received a HPG message; they could certainly have pretended any message from leaving (and any citizens from entering) the HPG compounds.

Yeah. Given the fact that they could shut off all interstellar communications in a Successor State (immediately hobbling the affected Successor State in their waging war -- an object example being the ComStar War, where Charles Marik and the FWL was basically bent over by Comstar to be paddled by the Elsies and Cappies till Chuck cried "Uncle" and made reparations for the HPG facility he had destroyed) means they can do WHATEVER THEY FLIPPIN' WANT.

[monbvol]

They're the Phone Company, AND the BBC, AND the Banking System, AND the UN. 

Anyway the ComStar News Bureau, specifically, is Space BBC.  And it's a branch of ComStar, obviously.  As is INN (Interstellar News Network). 

Some PoliSci 101 states that one of the definitive features of a Totalitarian government is control of the media.  That makes true Totalitarian states impossible following the fall of the Star League.  (however much the real world authors of the 2nd generation House Books might argue otherwise).   And not only can you not stop ComStar from broadcasting anything and everything they want, you really can't stop your rival Houses from broadcasting their propaganda on your worlds either.  Not when it's coming from the ComStar enclave.

Except Comstar relied very heavily on being a 'neutral' power for most of it's existence.  So it is very likely the DC and CC could have some say in what Comstar was allowed to broadcast from their compounds and Comstar most certainly wouldn't broadcast another nation's propaganda as that would be clearly taking sides.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

Except Comstar relied very heavily on being a 'neutral' power for most of it's existence.  So it is very likely the DC and CC could have some say in what Comstar was allowed to broadcast from their compounds and Comstar most certainly wouldn't broadcast another nation's propaganda as that would be clearly taking sides.

ComStar lets "them" broadcast propaganda on my worlds; ComStar lets me broadcast my propaganda on their worlds.  That's as neutral as it gets.

Besides don't dismiss the "Phone Company" moniker as meaning ComStar is merely a filter through which interstellar traffic passes.  Control of the HPG network means you have effective control of interstellar communications.  Noone delivers periodicals via the JumpShip Pony Express.  And ComStar is answerable to noone when it comes to what it broadcast from their sovereign compounds.

Yes states can very much control who has physical access TO the onworld ComStar facilities, but less so as to who's able to read the transmissions coming from them.  The faux totalitarian states like the Combine and Confederation don't have the leverage to keep ComStar from broadcasting their own or rival House-sponsored information.  What they do have is the Voice of the Dragon and the Mask's analogous propaganda branch to provide "approved" information.  Both for domestic consumption and for broadcast inside their rivals' borders.  And never forget the irony: all propaganda, even the propaganda that isn't made by ComStar, goes through ComStar.  You start telling ComStar what they may or may not broadcast inside your realm, and they've got the easy come-back of not broadcasting your domestic propaganda for you, either.

[monbvol]

The trouble with that trying to balance propaganda like that is that it is far too likely to backfire and destroy Comstar's credibility as a neutral power and get people to start paying more attention to Comstar.

Comstar has their own agenda and a lot of it for a rather long period of time relied heavily on not drawing that kind of scrutiny.

But that isn't to say there was no propaganda coming out of Comstar compounds/services, just that what came out of their compounds/services was in line with their own agendas and thus likely of their own making.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

The trouble with that trying to balance propaganda like that is that it is far too likely to backfire and destroy Comstar's credibility as a neutral power and get people to start paying more attention to Comstar.

Comstar has their own agenda and a lot of it for a rather long period of time relied heavily on not drawing that kind of scrutiny.

But that isn't to say there was no propaganda coming out of Comstar compounds/services, just that what came out of their compounds/services was in line with their own agendas and thus likely of their own making.

Well the thing is what one person calls news another person calls propaganda.  Either a Great House dictates what ComStar is allowed to broadcast, or it doesn't.  And I don't see how anyone successfully forces ComStar to limit what they broadcast/deliver.  (Pre-SCORPION, at any rate)

Interstellar Social media isn't a thing (Chatterweb comes close though) so there's no Kuritan Trolls on Davion Facebook.  But you do have Lyran holovid series glamorizing the consumer economy broadcast on Kurita worlds.  If the Lyran media company paid ComStar to have it broadcast throughout the Rasalhague District, it doesn't matter if the media company is a LIC front and the broadcasts are actually meant to instill insurrection on former Steiner worlds.  ComStar has no incentive to entertain Kurita's desires that the broadcasts stop. 

And again it goes back to the neutrality.  Don't like the media being broadcast and consider it propaganda?  Counter it with your own.  I'm sure ComStar is happy to offer attractive rates.  They'll let you do it back to them on their worlds with your own propaganda.  Nothing's more neutral than giving all the Houses the same opportunities, afterall.  Hell encouraging this kind of back and forth is exactly the sort of thing that plays into the ComStar master plan of stirring the pot so wars keep going on.

[glitterboy2098]

given that the TRO series is presented as Comstar produced literature for public use, i have no doubt that Comstar has a media empire. however i suspect that it is an empire operate at 2 or 3 degrees of seperation.. Comstar owning and/or funding the media producers, rather than producing it directly. presumably the products would be filled with comstar propaganda.. nothing too overt though, just showing comstar in a positive light inside whatever storylines and news presented.

Interstellar Social media isn't a thing (Chatterweb comes close though) so there's no Kuritan Trolls on Davion Facebook.  But you do have Lyran holovid series glamorizing the consumer economy broadcast on Kurita worlds.  If the Lyran media company paid ComStar to have it broadcast throughout the Rasalhague District, it doesn't matter if the media company is a LIC front and the broadcasts are actually meant to instill insurrection on former Steiner worlds.  ComStar has no incentive to entertain Kurita's desires that the broadcasts stop. 

actually IIRC it was a Lyran (turned fedcom) program shown on Larsha in the CapCon. though it might have reappeared in one of the later books in the series on a combine world i suppose.

[JadedFalcon]

Is there much clarity to the capabilities of Comstar broadcasting at the local level? We know about them disseminating information like the Kentares massace, but is this part of Comstar bundles news packages passed to local agencies, or as something like the Blake Channel, All Blake All The Time (with Blake-approved ads and product placement)?

Totalitarian governments do seem to exist in some form in the successor states (remember that you get them on certain FWL worlds, and the feudal system may create a few in the FedSuns and Lyran areas) and they can always control how people receive their information. Regulations and state-approved equipment would not only ensure that the populace receives approved content, but also label anyone carrying non-approved receivers and media devices as a potential enemy of the state (unless they have the correct permits). And by focusing at the planetary level, it becomes easier to tailor the control of information to each particular world.

And then there is the win-win when CapCon allows FedCom soaps to be play on their media outlets. Not only does it help to keep the masses distracted, but it reinforces the gratuitously materialistic and morally bankrupt appearance of the neighboring realm that the Maskirovka likes to portray.

[R.Tempest]

 ;D Welcome to PBS - the Public Blake Service. We provide Historical dramas (set in the semi-mythical Star League era). Historical documentaries, like the award winning 125 part series `The First Succession War (a film by Ken Burns). Nature shows like `Safari - Inner Sphere', looking at wildlife on various planets (and hunting some of them).
 Also `Science' programs that explain the dangers of uncontrolled research.
 All available free from  Comstar - contact a Service Acolyte now at 2.12.1.11.5 or go by your local Comstar office. ;D

[JadedFalcon]

;D Welcome to PBS - the Public Blake Service. We provide Historical dramas (set in the semi-mythical Star League era). Historical documentaries, like the award winning 125 part series `The First Succession War (a film by Ken Burns). Nature shows like `Safari - Inner Sphere', looking at wildlife on various planets (and hunting some of them).
 Also `Science' programs that explain the dangers of uncontrolled research.
 All available free from  Comstar - contact a Service Acolyte now at 2.12.1.11.5 or go by your local Comstar office. ;D

Join now and receive a canonized copy of Blake's Brightest Bites, a selection of sanctified recipes for use with your toaster.

[Robroy]

Join now and receive a canonized copy of Blake's Brightest Bites, a selection of sanctified recipes for use with your toaster.

Included is a prayer to say so it works.

[Cyc]

Second Succession War page 14 has a little side bar on the ComStar News Bureau which is the most modern info on it (including a mention of "fake news") which repeats what we know from earlier sources - censoring CNB broadcasts (CC and DC specifically cited) and trying to unduly inhibit CNB reporters (FC during War of 3039) will result in ComStar threatening interdictions, and that the CNB "rarely" lied but that it did manipulate and massage news stories as needed, even tailoring them for an individual world if needed.

[Kit deSummersville]

ComStar lets "them" broadcast propaganda on my worlds; ComStar lets me broadcast my propaganda on their worlds. 

I highly doubt that ComStar let anyone set-up shop in their compounds. I'd love to see a reference to that in canon.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

I highly doubt that ComStar let anyone set-up shop in their compounds. I'd love to see a reference to that in canon.

You don't have to set up shop in a ComStar compound to pay ComStar to transmit your media to the target world.

[Kit deSummersville]

You don't have to set up shop in a ComStar compound to pay ComStar to transmit your media to the target world.

I'd love to see a reference to ComStar transmitting non-ComStar media in canon.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

I'd love to see a reference to ComStar transmitting non-ComStar media in canon.

Solaris duels?  ISF's Voice of the Dragon propaganda?

Unless you're going to argue that all media consumed on world is produced on that same world without interstellar input... everything goes over the HPG network.  That is, everything is transmitted by ComStar.

[Pat Payne]

And then there is the win-win when CapCon allows FedCom soaps to be play on their media outlets. Not only does it help to keep the masses distracted, but it reinforces the gratuitously materialistic and morally bankrupt appearance of the neighboring realm that the Maskirovka likes to portray.

That can backfire though. In the late '80s, the USSR allowed Oliver Stone's "Wall Street" to play in theaters, naively assuming that the Soviet public would take the intended message for the film (that Wall Street types were amoral creeps who were wrecking the world). Instead, to their shock and dismay, audiences cheered on Gordon Gekko as a hero and role model. 

[Kit deSummersville]

Solaris duels?  ISF's Voice of the Dragon propaganda?

Unless you're going to argue that all media consumed on world is produced on that same world without interstellar input... everything goes over the HPG network.  That is, everything is transmitted by ComStar.

Only if you assume that all media is transmitted over HPG and none delivered via ship. And that ComStar broadcasts all media from its compounds for all to receive. Neither of which has been shown, though we do have accounts of having to wait months or even a year to get the latest episode of the Steinhearts.

On the other hand, we do have accounts of propaganda being spread on worlds via covert combat vehicles. Seems rather expensive when one could just send it via ComStar....

[Tai Dai Cultist]

Only if you assume that all media is transmitted over HPG and none delivered via ship. And that ComStar broadcasts all media from its compounds for all to receive. Neither of which has been shown, though we do have accounts of having to wait months or even a year to get the latest episode of the Steinhearts.

I think I see why you're questioning what I was saying. 

Granted:  It may not be commonplace (or even ever mentioned in canon) that ComStar compounds are where all of a given planet's trideo broadcast towers are.

But that's besides the point.  What IS being broadcast on the airwaves, whether from inside the ComStar compound or not, originally passed through the HPG network and was at some point transmitted from the ComStar HPG compound to whomever operates the broadcast tower(s) on the world in question.   Unless of course the media in question was produced locally without any impact whatsoever from the interstellar economy.  And no that's not snark.  Surely some portion of the local media is 100% local.  But any interstellar commercial enterprise, mass media included, requires ComStar.  If not for the HPG transmission itself, then at least for use of the interstellar financial system.

On the other hand, we do have accounts of propaganda being spread on worlds via covert combat vehicles. Seems rather expensive when one could just send it via ComStar....

What the government does and what's commercially viable are not necessarily the same thing.  An organization like the ISF or MIIO can afford such extravagances, esp when keeping ROM out of the loop happens to be a priority.  Besides sometimes the propaganda in question isn't of a format that is compatable with HPG transmission.  Enemy troops dug in defending a city are unlikely to be calling or visiting the onworld HPG for personal messages but they can't help but see leaflets airdropped on top of them.

OTOH commercial media enterprises that need to turn a profit can't afford to use distribution methods ridiculously slower and more expensive than HPG transmissions.  The AFFS can afford to ship highly classified and non-perishable orders to units via JumpShip Pony Express, but the New Avalon Herald isn't going to ship its newspaper across the Inner Sphere in this way... news is perishable and it's just too much cheaper to go over the HPG net.   And hypothetically if they pay ComStar to make its product available at every HPG compound across the Inner Sphere, then the only way the ISF or Maskirovka can keep its subversive influences away from their eta and servitors is to physically keep those plebes away from ComStar's HPG compound.  Both physically AND remotely via whatever communications network technology the given planetary comms grid may have.

EDIT:  In the case of something like trying to keep the New Avalon Herald from being picked up by an eta on the planet Annapolis:  Rather than trying to tell ComStar what may or may not be broadcast into the Combine, they probably would find it most in their interest to enact a tax or tariff on such things.  Price them out of what anyone but an elite can afford, and you can generally trust your elites.  Or at the very least there's few enough elites you can watch them much more efficiently for signs of subversion.  Besides, putting such tariffs can make it not in the New Avalon Herald's interests of profit to even ask ComStar in the first place to broadcast it to HPG stations inside the Combine, making House vs ComStar sex organ measuring contests moot.

[Pat Payne]

Besides, putting such tariffs can make it not in the New Avalon Herald's interests of profit to even ask ComStar in the first place to broadcast it to HPG stations inside the Combine, making House vs ComStar sex organ measuring contests moot.

That's a good point. Another thing though to mention is that, yes, the more totalitarian-leaning governments can't physically forbid access to HPGs (at least not without cutting their own noses off to spite their face), but they can levy harsh penalties on anyone known or suspected of reading, viewing or listening to said enemy media. It's a very common practice in the less human-rights-abiding parts of the globe, especially when it is impractable or technically unfeasable to block broadcasts, to impose long prison sentences on those who watch "enemy" TV or listen to "enemy" radio. So who's to say that in the CC, they don't have Maskirovka stationed outside the HPG's extraterritorial zone interrogating servitors as to what they were doing there, or that they don't have some sort of Orwellian monitoring of Trivid screens and radio and haul away anyone watching the latest episode of "Wings of the Eagle" to the Hoosegow? Or even that they have it to where recievers can only pick up certain approved broadcasts (such as having a special signal on state media that the screens need to unscramble the program, rendering everything else so much gibberish)?

[monbvol]

Who says media can't be brought in via jumpship instead?  Especially when we have plenty of references to people having to wait longer than what would be reasonable if it were delivered by HPG and references to jumpships trading media libraries with each others and planets they visit.

[Kit deSummersville]

What IS being broadcast on the airwaves, whether from inside the ComStar compound or not, originally passed through the HPG network and was at some point transmitted from the ComStar HPG compound to whomever operates the broadcast tower(s) on the world in question.

Again, where is that all stated? How do we know it's being sent via HPG? And even if so, how do we know they broadcast it across the airwaves on planet?

OTOH commercial media enterprises that need to turn a profit can't afford to use distribution methods ridiculously slower and more expensive than HPG transmissions. 

Prove it. How much more expensive is it to send an episode of The Steinhearts from Donegal to New Syrtis via HPG than using commercial JumpShips?

[monbvol]

*nod*

I'm still unconvinced Comstar would actually allow someone else's propaganda on their broadcast services.  Just seems like it is far too likely to draw the wrong kind of attention that Comstar actively avoided for most of it's existence.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

Again, where is that all stated? How do we know it's being sent via HPG? And even if so, how do we know they broadcast it across the airwaves on planet?

Prove it. How much more expensive is it to send an episode of The Steinhearts from Donegal to New Syrtis via HPG than using commercial JumpShips?

Well there's not enough Catgirls in all of imaginationland to work out how the FASAnomics of the Inner Sphere works.  But for starters, we'd have to agree upon whether 1 C-Bill is equal to 1 second of HPG time or 1 millisecond of HPG time even before trying to agree upon how much time it takes to broadcast a newspaper or holovid episode.  And as a measure of comparison, do we even have data newer than JS/DS detailing what it costs for a DropShip to ride a Jumpship docking collar for one jump?*  And assuming we do have a way to figure a canonical market rate for passage thru a jump, I don't know how we'd ever have a way to figure out how much of that cost an individual shipper is paying to ship one's goods.

But let's look at it in an abstract manner.  What's easier: shipping a physical object (be it a newspaper on a chip, or an actual printed on paper newspaper) across the JumpShip travel routes, where the timetables are measured in 30LY jumps with numerous days of recharge time in between them... or broadcasting that same information via HPG traffic across 60LY jumps and without X amount of days between each jump?  Efficiency breeds savings; it's cheaper to ship via rail than via 18wheeler for all the same kinds of reasons.  We don't need to successfully define FASAnomics to know that there's no logical way it's cheaper to broadcast information via JumpShip than HPG, and it's utter ridiculousness to try to compare them when trying to simultaneously broadcast copies of the same data to multiple destinations.

Pardon my incredulence Kit but it very much sounds like you're questioning that it's cheaper to email 100 people a letter than to send those same 100 people a physical version of that letter through a postal service.

*Edit=Looks like we do have newer data.  And since it's based on the mass of the DropShip in question, unless you own your own DropShip fleet your costs for interstellar shipping will be highly variable.  Cost stability is yet another advantage for HPG transmission, since the same amount of data should theoretically always take the same amount of time to transmit.

[monbvol]

Except it isn't mailing people letters.  A more apt comparison would be downloading PDFs or mp4s from a media server.

There is simply no way an HPG could actually compete with the kind of data storage and transmission that even one Dropship visiting a planet once a year can manage.  Especially when it is explicitly stated that Dropships, Jumpships, and planets after a fashion are routinely swapping this sort of stuff without charging C-Bills of each other.