VotW: Scorpion

[nerd]

For what it's worth, the Scorpion is the same weight as a Panver IV, but has an off road max speed much faster than that old tin can.

It's also heavier than the more modern Stingray Light Tank, which only weighs about 23 tonnes.

It's quite possibly one of the few attrition units that explicitly exist. Slow, easy to die in, but has enough firepower where the hits add up.

[mbear]

Also, you know how much I like MML's, JHB, and given the existence of the LRM, MRM, and SRM variants, there almost seems to be a need to create a MML Variant. If you take out the LRM Launchers and Ammo, I believe you can put in either 2 MML-5's or 4 MML-3's with three tons of ammo and the flexibility that goes with it.

You could also do a version with twin Thunderbolt-5 missile launchers. Same range, same damage, indirect fire.

Edit: Actually more damage if both missiles hit.

[Empyrus]

You could also do a version with twin Thunderbolt-5 missile launchers. Same range, same damage, indirect fire.

Edit: Actually more damage if both missiles hit.

I did that, in the customs forum.
It is a beast really. Double damage, good endurance. Park behind a hill, lob missiles over it.
I don't think T-bolts very good weapons usually but this is one case where they're excellent.

[Charlie Tango]

For old-school tactics, park a lance or even a pair of the SRM Scorpion variant back as the bodyguards for a fire-support lance.  You can even park them under the feet of the big missile boys to help provide 360-degree short-range defense, and at least give any harassing scout units or striker-types that get in among the missile boats something else to think about..

Another fun old-school tactic with the SRM Scorpion is to pair it with a Hunchback 4G.  Same movement profile and being able to traverse most of the same terrain means you can have the can-opener and the crit-seeker stay right together.

[JadeHellbringer]

SRMcorpions and Hunters are a great combo in the same regard CT is talking about- dirt cheap for both overall, but a whole mess of long range missiles downrange, with some 'pick another place to be' power from the little ones to boot. It's a tough combo to really beat on, and even if you beat them soundly the enemy probably lost less in terms of BV or C-bill cost than you spent on losses dealing with it.

[Moonsword]

A nice article covering one of those basic vehicles of the game.

Don't forget the possibility of flak ammo.  A five point hit is a fairly serious problem to a lot of thinly-armored VTOLs (which would is most of them in the Succession Wars) or your average conventional fighter.  If you don't have Partisans handy - and a lot of militias either don't own them or won't have enough to deploy them too widely - a Scorpion or Vedette battery may do in a pinch.  Two point hits are still slightly annoying if you blunder into 'Mechs or armor but won't inspire the enemy to put as much attention on the tanks if they're supporting something heavier.

The natural comparison for me on the Scorpion has always been the Vedette, which has the same armament but a higher speed and 50% more armor on twice the tonnage (which illustrates the inefficiency of the ICE nicely).  Vedettes are cheap cavalry tanks, Scorpions are garrison and infantry support units.  If you've got infantry mounted in APCs (especially the heavy tracked variety which is also 5/8), Vedettes are an excellent companion but Scorpions make good, cheap companions to mechanized or motorized infantry.

Looking to other "budget" hardware, Scorpions can also accompany Hetzers, Goblins, or Bulldogs to provide either ranged firepower (AC, LRM) or extra close-in crit-seeking (SRM) depending on what you're after.  Better yet, all three of those units are widespread and make great generic militia opponents if you paint your minis in camo instead of parade colors.

You could also do a version with twin Thunderbolt-5 missile launchers. Same range, same damage, indirect fire.

Edit: Actually more damage if both missiles hit.

Actually the range on a Thunderbolt is 6/12/18 with a minimum of 5 and notably Thunderbolts are at half damage inside their minimum.  MMLs have SRMs to address that problem.  Thunderbolts have a tactical niche but it's a very different role than the "jack of all trades" capability MMLs bring to the table.

[Scotty]

I would honestly say that against most things, running just Scorpions and some Mechanized/Motorized Infantry with field guns of the AC/2 and AC/5 variety would be as fluffy as it gets while also being brutally effective for cost.  It's as simple and as cheap a force as money can buy, can be maintained by the greenest techs ever trained, and can handle most terrain any vehicle will have to come across.

Sure, it's slow, but when you're assaulting through a city or some other static objective, there's no real way to prevent that kind of force from taking it short of closing and destroying enough of them to break the attack.  Given how many of them you can field for cheap, that's a lot of stuff to blow up.

[Liam's Ghost]

I would honestly say that against most things, running just Scorpions and some Mechanized/Motorized Infantry with field guns of the AC/2 and AC/5 variety would be as fluffy as it gets while also being brutally effective for cost.  It's as simple and as cheap a force as money can buy, can be maintained by the greenest techs ever trained, and can handle most terrain any vehicle will have to come across.

Sure, it's slow, but when you're assaulting through a city or some other static objective, there's no real way to prevent that kind of force from taking it short of closing and destroying enough of them to break the attack.  Given how many of them you can field for cheap, that's a lot of stuff to blow up.

[glitterboy2098]

honestly i'm surprised we never got an IFV version of the Scorpion, reducing the weapons load slightly to fit a 3 ton infantry bay.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Doesn't Quiksell already produce an IFV?

[Liam's Ghost]

honestly i'm surprised we never got an IFV version of the Scorpion, reducing the weapons load slightly to fit a 3 ton infantry bay.

There is a variant with a one ton cargo bay, enough for a squad.

[Giovanni Blasini]

That's the Scorpion ML, right?

[Liam's Ghost]

Yep.

[Baldur Mekorig]

How much free weight gains this vee with a Fuel Cell instead of the ICE?

[Empyrus]

How much free weight gains this vee with a Fuel Cell instead of the ICE?

2 tons.

[JadeHellbringer]

What does that do to the cost? I suspect it's not a massive increase, but if a pirate king can buy three ICE Scorpions for the price of two fuel cell Scorpions, he'll go with the better bargain. (House lords may not mind the added costs, but they also likely don't really care about better Scorpions either.)

[Empyrus]

ICE Scorpion cost: 320 833 C-bills.
FC Scorpion cost:  417 083 C-bills. No other modifications so 2 tons underweight.

Per Solaris Armor Werks.

So the ratio is about 3 FCs per 4 ICEs.

EDIT Adding a SRM-2 and a ton of ammo would increase cost to 429 583 C-bills.

EDIT OK What the hell, SRM-2 costs 10k, the ammo 27k... And for comparison, SRM-4 is 60k... (ammo doesn't change).

[JadeHellbringer]

Ehhhh... guess it depends on what you do with those two tons then to make it worthwhile. An SRM-2 and ammo might be nice, or if it's a late enough era a wad of rocket launchers for a bit of extra one-time 'oomph' might be interesting.

[Empyrus]

Added SRM cost above.

Adding four RL-10s (3 turret, 1 front due to weight) would cost 75k or so more. Impressive alpha strike for its size.

[JadeHellbringer]

I'd use it. Sounds like a fun little contraption to put a few of in a far-flung periphery garrison- let off AC shots at pirates at range, dump lunch at them if they keep advancing, chase them off with more autocannon if any pirates survive the rockets. Supported with infantry and maybe a couple of cheap LRM carrying vehicles, this could be a lot of fun.

[Iron Mongoose]

RLs definitely seem to suit the Scorpion.  They don't last long, it doesn't necessarily last long, but one extra massive kick may just keep it alive for ten or twenty extra seconds.

On a periphery backwater with lots of infantry or even irregulars, the other thing I'd consider would be two or three MGs or LMGs or something like that.  Granted, normally you can just count on infantry to keep infantry off, but a bit of extra suppression doesn't always go a miss.

[Empyrus]

How about pulling the AC/5 instead and equipping the turret with 9 RL-15s?
Would be interesting field refit/repair in case one doesn't have extra AC/5s left.

[JadeHellbringer]

How about pulling the AC/5 instead and equipping the turret with 9 RL-15s?
Would be interesting field refit/repair in case one doesn't have extra AC/5s left.

Katyusha! I dig it! And it keeps the MG even!

[Weirdo]

I'd use it. Sounds like a fun little contraption to put a few of in a far-flung periphery garrison- let off AC shots at pirates at range, dump lunch at them if they keep advancing, chase them off with more autocannon if any pirates survive the rockets. Supported with infantry and maybe a couple of cheap LRM carrying vehicles, this could be a lot of fun.

...that sounds like my idea of the perfect Marian militia unit.

[Scotty]

With two extra tons I would genuinely and honestly use it to field an Ultra AC/5 and extra ton of ammo.

[Empyrus]

While i did replace the gun with twin T-bolt 5s to a custom Scorpion, i'm not sure such a cheap tank really deserves even an Ultra AC (let alone my T-bolt 5 mod). I mean, it is a good upgrade but not really worth the expense of buying the gun, transporting it, and installing it.

The fuel cell engine itself is less problematic since it can be adapted from civilian sources.
Though i cannot really think of any way to justify the fuel cell engine either. Requires too much time and work.

[Scotty]

The difference in cost between an AC/5 and ton of ammo and a UAC/5 and two tons of ammo is less than 90k.  The increase in range is more than enough to offset that cost.  If we're determined to add a Fuel Cell already, at least.  I'd absolutely take a pair of Ultra/5 Scorpions up against a trio of standard AC/5 Scorpions and expect something akin to a fair fight.

[Empyrus]

Sure, if you start upgrading a tank, you might as well do a bit more at once then. But i'm not sure it is really worth upgrading a Scorpion in anyway.
BTW, you could just remove the MG and its ammo and swap the main gun to an UAC/5 with one ton of ammo. Wouldn't require an engine swap. Could work as pure anti-armor unit, if supported by infantry.

[mbear]

The difference in cost between an AC/5 and ton of ammo and a UAC/5 and two tons of ammo is less than 90k.  The increase in range is more than enough to offset that cost.  If we're determined to add a Fuel Cell already, at least.  I'd absolutely take a pair of Ultra/5 Scorpions up against a trio of standard AC/5 Scorpions and expect something akin to a fair fight.

So then you'd have no problem slapping on some sort of Ferro-Fibrous armor either?

[mbear]

Somewhat less effective (but still plenty handy) is a version packing two medium lasers in the turret. This required heat sinks and power converters, and increases costs as a result. The lasers each hit as hard as the old AC, but with drastically reduced range- if that's okay for your uses, such as in an urban area, this may not be a bad idea. The nose-mounted MG remains here, and a one-ton cargo bay allows you to bring a lunch. It's a toss-up between range and power on whether or not this is more useful to your style of play over the standard model.

I wonder if the Draconis Combine might use the ML version as the basis for a Light PPC armed variant. That would give the same range and damage profile as the original AC/5 model, and require one less heat sink. Additional machine gun maybe?