Author Topic: A Time of War - Character Advancement and Attributes - Resolved  (Read 1072 times)

Phicksur

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I can see in the rules where it states that a character, during character creation, cannot exceed their phenotype maximum attributes, but after character creation what rules stop them from spending XP to advance beyond their phenotype maximums?

Page 51 says: "The maximum values for a character’s Attributes are defined by their phenotype (see the Phenotype Trait description, p. 121), unless the character also picks up the Exceptional Attribute Trait to increase a maximum by 1 point."
but as this is in the character creation section, it seems to be talking about character attributes during character creation.

Page 95 says: "Attributes, Traits and Skills all have a maximum limit under these rules, though these maximums can vary with the character’s Phenotype and Trait choices. If a character receives more XPs in any Attribute, Trait or Skill than that Attribute, Trait or Skill can support at its maximum level, the excess XPs may be recovered for use elsewhere if the player uses the Optimizing Leftover Points rule (see p. 97). The maximum Attribute score a character may receive is defined by the character’s Phenotype (see pp. 121-122). ... The maximum Skill level any character may have in A Time of War is 10."
While Skill levels are very clearly defined as having a maximum in the game, I can find no such definition for Attributes. This section, talking about Attributes specifically, is talking about character creation using the life modules system. Even the XP cost table on this page does not mention maximum limits, only the lower limit.

Page 121 says: "Each phenotype provides free modifiers to the character’s base Attributes, which are applied after the character has spent XP on these Attributes, but which may not exceed the listed Attribute maximums (shown in parentheses) for that phenotype."
but this seems to imply this sentence is attached to the bonuses to attributes and not exceeding the limit during character creation and not a game limit/maximum.

Page 333, however, says: "Attributes may be purchased at any time by spending 100 XP per Attribute Point. In order for a character to be eligible for this increase, he must have spent an appropriate amount of time practicing or training (see Training, p. 334). The gamemaster must concur that the method of practice, or training, as well as the length of time that the character has practiced or trained, is adequate. It is possible to improve every Attribute a character has, though advancing one Attribute type may be much more time-consuming and difficult than another."
which makes no mention of maximum attribute limits. In fact, under advancement, there are no mentions of limits except under Traits. The only reason one might assign limits to Skills is because it explicitly mentions a limit for the game, not just for character creation, back on page 95.

Have any official rulings or errata come out to clarify this issue?
« Last Edit: 14 September 2023, 13:51:29 by Phicksur »

Daryk

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Re: A Time of War - Character Advancement and Attributes
« Reply #1 on: 12 September 2023, 13:26:35 »
I've always taken the maximum during creation to be the max overall.  As a GM, that's what I'd stick to.

Shark_bone

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Re: A Time of War - Character Advancement and Attributes
« Reply #2 on: 12 September 2023, 16:11:39 »
I don't know of any errata or anything about it, but in the sections you mention where "it seems to be talking about character attributes during character creation," I don't see anything in the quoted sections that would make me believe they are talking strictly about character creation.

It's called a Phenotype maximum, which I take to mean the maximum a character of that type can reach, no matter what. As a GM, I would call that the absolute ceiling for character growth, in character creation or outside of it.

Granted, strange things happen during gameplay. Cybernetic implants, experimental drugs, or who knows what else can create situations where, according to the fiction, a character might seem to exceed these maximums. In those cases, I'd vote for exceeding them.

Daryk

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Re: A Time of War - Character Advancement and Attributes
« Reply #3 on: 12 September 2023, 16:53:15 »
I don't count cybernetics against the limit either.

Horsemen

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Re: A Time of War - Character Advancement and Attributes
« Reply #4 on: 13 September 2023, 02:00:37 »
I've always taken it as the maximum applies even after creation as that was what was in MW3/CBT which AToW is based off of. While they do not directly state it, it is implied on page 35 of the latest printing of AToW under Attribute Increase and Decrease.

"Over time, a character’s Attributes may increase or decrease as a result of game play, experience and age. Increases, which typically occur through spending XPs on such upgrades (see Character Advancement, p. 330), can bring an Attribute as high as the maximum value allowed for the character’s phenotype type."

The key here is that it mentions using experience but still states that it can only go as high as the maximum is allowed by the phenotype. Presuming of course you didn't pick up Exceptional Attribute to increase the maximum for the chosen attribute by one.

Daryk

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Re: A Time of War - Character Advancement and Attributes
« Reply #5 on: 13 September 2023, 08:42:31 »
And it doesn't prevent cybernetics from cranking up an Attribute either.  Thanks for finding the page ref! :)

Horsemen

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Re: A Time of War - Character Advancement and Attributes
« Reply #6 on: 13 September 2023, 14:20:36 »
Yes. We had some pretty brutal Manei Domini as personal foes of various groups in our campaigns in MW3/CBT RPG. There are plans for a few sequels so the one who survived in my campaign will be converted and making a new appearance.

Dahmin_Toran

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Re: A Time of War - Character Advancement and Attributes
« Reply #7 on: 13 September 2023, 18:50:18 »
Is there a Maximum for Skills?

Daryk

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Re: A Time of War - Character Advancement and Attributes
« Reply #8 on: 13 September 2023, 19:08:05 »
10... it was quoted further up this thread.

Phicksur

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Re: A Time of War - Character Advancement and Attributes
« Reply #9 on: 14 September 2023, 13:51:07 »
And it doesn't prevent cybernetics from cranking up an Attribute either.  Thanks for finding the page ref! :)
Ah, thank you, this was what I was looking for. This is far more definitive.

 

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