Wolverine II

[SteelRaven]

If you hate the UAC/5 that much, pick a different mech.

[Hellraiser]

Not sure why LB5X & ERML & Snubbie & HPPC & Streak6 etc etc keep getting mentioned when None of them were available when the Wolverine-II was created.

This also wasn't any field refit of the 6R, it was a full new factory production model.

That said, as mentioned, there is literally no room to change the load out much given the lack of crit space on this thing.


They could have used 3 Streaks if they consolidated the ammo into a single CASE location.

They could have kept a standard ML while adding another DHS.

Switching to an Energy weapon for the UA5 is fine, except that you then have tons to spend w/o a lot of crit space.

The mech can handle about 1 ton more armor.

Batteries of ML isn't going to work w/o adding a lot of DHS that it doesn't have room for.



The one thing I think they could have done is give us a mech that could have been what triggered the idea for the LL on the 6K/6M models.

Using an ERLL for the UAC5 while adding another DHS to the engine & arm is about the best option for the tonnage & space available while keeping the feel of the 6 Series in some way.   Maybe fit in another MPL to use up the extra tonnage.

[Colt Ward]

Well, Snubs were a late Star League creation so . . .

But yeah, its why it went from Streak 6 to 3 Streak2s and got into moving the UAC ammo out of the arm.

I guess opinions on the mech come down to opinions on the UAC/5 . . . to me its fine, its a very rugged mobile skirmisher that is good (and can last) for about 15 rounds of combat before Winchester.

[Hellraiser]

Well, Snubs were a late Star League creation so . . . 

Not when the Wolverine came out.
They got prototype'd 14 years AFTER it was in production so at best a variant & not something it could have started with as someone suggested.

I like the fluff of the Clan Wolverine pilot that used one in a volcanic area/hot springs area where the over-sinked nature of it allowed him to be able to fight where other mechs were shutting down when they fired.

[JPArbiter]

The only big change i woukd try to make to the Wolvie II, and this would be to suppliment the mech as it exists rather the. Fix or replace it, is figure out where to find the two tons to get an LB-10X in place of the Ultra 5.

My problem is I like the Medium pulse laser. I considered swapping the SRM 6 for paired streak 2’s but that was a wash in terms of mass. Scrapping the double CASE seems dangerous and I don’t wanna give up jump capability.

Cant win for losing I guess

[Retry]

The only big change i woukd try to make to the Wolvie II, and this would be to suppliment the mech as it exists rather the. Fix or replace it, is figure out where to find the two tons to get an LB-10X in place of the Ultra 5.

My problem is I like the Medium pulse laser. I considered swapping the SRM 6 for paired streak 2’s but that was a wash in terms of mass. Scrapping the double CASE seems dangerous and I don’t wanna give up jump capability.

Cant win for losing I guess

It would work perfectly fine if you're willing to give up the MPL.  "Downgrading" it to a regular medium gives a ton back, and replacing the SRM6 w/ Art IV with 2 SSRM2s gets you a ton and a crit, combining the two has more than enough for that LB-10X.

If you must have the MPL, then it's tougher.  You'll need a big missile downgrade to a SRM-4 to get the crit and tonnage.

[SteelRaven]

... or you can just pilot a Royal Shadow Hawk.

[Luciora]

I always felt the Shadow Hawk needed the ac/10 upgrade, not the Wolverine.  The Griffin already does it's 10 point punch,  Wolverine gets the Ultra/5 so that leaves the Hawk and the LBX.  Maybe it's just me.

[Sartris]

... or you can just pilot a Royal Shadow Hawk.

It can be the SLDF’s version of Marik’s obsession with the LGR. Put LB-10s on EVERYTHING

[Retry]

... or you can just pilot a Royal Shadow Hawk.

Nah, not with a mere 3-hex jump.

[SteelRaven]

Nah, not with a mere 3-hex jump.

... You know, every time I talk about a existing optimize design, someone in this community calls me ether a munchkin or a snow flake but here is a discussion that has been how to fix the under optimize the Wolverine II to be good at everything.

[Retry]

... You know, every time I talk about a existing optimize design, someone in this community calls me ether a munchkin or a snow flake but here is a discussion that has been how to fix the under optimize the Wolverine II to be good at everything.

Err, sorry man.  Idk what to tell you.

(For what little it's worth, losing the UAC5 isn't my first choice.  Fixing the UAC's crutches would be my first choice, but that's a house-rule so it's not relevant in this thread.)

[SteelRaven]

Err, sorry man.  Idk what to tell you.

Just had to clear the air. Everyone has their own preference when it comes to mechs, my choiy just always seems to wrong  for whatever reason ;)

[Hellraiser]

I agree,  ML/MPL and Stk/Art4 for Ultra/LBx would be the way to go to get a Wolvie-LB10

But also as mentioned, you end up with a Shadow Hawk-R.

I still think the ERLL is the way to go with the Wolvie-II,  it gives a reason for the 6K/6M to exist.

Call it the Wolverine-II-7R variant, but lets the Hawk keep the LB10X while using less ammo over all.

Then again I don't care for the SH-R for giving up the LRM-5 & that is the one I'd have really loved to see use an ERLL since it has more ammo than either the Wolvie or Griffin.

[TigerShark]

I still think the ERLL is the way to go with the Wolvie-II,  it gives a reason for the 6K/6M to exist.

It actually leads directly to it, IMO. Kallon Industries of Nanking is the likely manufacturing plant for the WVR-7H, but the plans for the design were in Kallon's corporate control. So it's not a huge leap for the Thermopolis plant to retool to manufacture these in the early stages of the Star League's dissolution. WVR-7H -> WVR-6M sounds like a logical progression, once endo steel became scarce.

[Hellraiser]

Kallon Industries of Nanking is the likely manufacturing plant for the WVR-7H,

Nope.
The Wolverine-II was manufactured from a SLDF facility on New Earth.
But that still works for your theory, because the FWL liberated plans for the Guillotine & Spider from New Earth at the start of the 1st SW.
No reason they might not have gotten those too.

[TigerShark]

Nope.
The Wolverine-II was manufactured from a SLDF facility on New Earth.
But that still works for your theory, because the FWL liberated plans for the Guillotine & Spider from New Earth at the start of the 1st SW.
No reason they might not have gotten those too.

Not saying you're wrong, but do you have the source on that? I have canon factories on my server and want to keep up-to-date. :)

[Sartris]

Operation Klondike pg 167 confirms New Earth. Kallon went on to produce it for the SLDF in the FWL, FC, and FS.

[TigerShark]

Operation Klondike pg 167 confirms New Earth. Kallon went on to produce it for the SLDF in the FWL, FC, and FS.

It says that the prototypes only were produced at the research plant on New Earth. The actual line production occurred on various worlds (probably Thermopolis for the FWL, Wernke-Talon for the FS, and ??? for LC) for the SLDF, since New Earth was obviously part of the Amaris Empire during the coup.

Fewer than twenty Wolverine II prototypes were deployed before the Amaris Coup.
Early results from their field tests (including actual combat on New Vandenburg)
convinced Kallon Industries that they were on the right track, and the design was
put into production at Kallon’s plants in the Free Worlds League, Lyran Commonwealth
and Federated Suns for the SLDF. Following the liberation of Terra, the surviving
examples of the design accompanied the SLDF into the Periphery.

[SteelRaven]

The real world reason we got the Wolverine II was players wanted a new proxy Wolverine pre-classic so let's not read too much into it. The fluff is there to explain why you never heard of it until this point but gives you enough room to argue why a standard Wolverine would look like a Wolverine II.

[Sartris]

It says that the prototypes only were produced at the research plant on New Earth. The actual line production occurred on various worlds (probably Thermopolis for the FWL, Wernke-Talon for the FS, and ??? for LC) for the SLDF, since New Earth was obviously part of the Amaris Empire during the coup.

yeah, i agree. i should have added the caveat of prototypes for new earth - and also why i listed the plants outside of the hegemony. i'd have to go back to LoTII but i'm guessing the facilities on new earth didn't fare well.

[Colt Ward]

The real world reason we got the Wolverine II was players wanted a new proxy Wolverine pre-classic so let's not read too much into it. The fluff is there to explain why you never heard of it until this point but gives you enough room to argue why a standard Wolverine would look like a Wolverine II.

I agree, which is why I said the designer did a great job dropping the Wolverine II between a WVR-6R and WVR-7D.

[Hellraiser]

It says that the prototypes only were produced at the research plant on New Earth. The actual line production occurred on various worlds (probably Thermopolis for the FWL, Wernke-Talon for the FS, and ??? for LC) for the SLDF, since New Earth was obviously part of the Amaris Empire during the coup.

You know, I'm not sure that 20 prototypes &/or the 2770 intro date can be correct.

The intro date for the Wolvie is listed as 2770, but it was used in the Periphery along with the Atlas II in 2765.

1 of only 20 prototypes making it out to the periphery 5 years before the factory went full production?

That seems like a very long prototype testing phase as well as a really long way to go to test it.

Either way, as stated, its Operation Klondike that lists New Earth as the Original Factory.

[SteelRaven]

It's a wonky time in mech production, the BlackjackBJ-1X was deployed and got it's shoddy reputation the following year.