Author Topic: Aviation Pictures: A-Seven-th Thread--CorsAirin' Through Time and Airspace  (Read 33717 times)

chanman

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The Airbus A380 is also not in production. Many government official aircraft are A350 or 777 which are both twins.

Hence my comment. The A340, A380, and now 747 are all OOP and Falcon is only exec-jet sized. Looks like except for the odd 747, most world leaders use twinjets, but Air Force One has some additional duties that other head of states transports don't.

Cannonshop

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Hence my comment. The A340, A380, and now 747 are all OOP and Falcon is only exec-jet sized. Looks like except for the odd 747, most world leaders use twinjets, but Air Force One has some additional duties that other head of states transports don't.

and those duties will be done by something else, probably made in Europe or China, when they run out of spares to keep the current Airforce One functional.

But y'know what? the guys who made the decision on Boeing's side? they're still going to get their bonuses, even though they screwed up and lost the chance to BID on that contract.

THAT is the kind of mess that SHOULD be getting executives shown the door, with a boot to the ass to make sure they leave.

The current mess w/rt the 737 Max has a lot to do with execs focusing more on irrelevancies than on the core business, and passing that shifted priority down through the layers of bureaucratic management to the shop floor, because that mess? it's multilayered and multileveled. 

Tag gets written, TAg turns into NCR, Mechanic starts working the NCR, Mechanic gets interrupted, QA buys off some of the work, but not all of it, because it ain't all finished.

Plane moves a position, nobody followed up.  Now, the Mechanic didn't because it's factory work and if it's important, someone on the next shift or past that usually gets assigned to finish it.  The QA doesn't for the same reason, but the guys in the next position? the ones getting an OK to close in that area? they didn't even CHECK, and neither did the QA in that area, or the Customer Representative, so this open paper saying "Hey y'all the envelope's compromised" gets forgotten about through Interiors, paint shop, Delivery center, and the FAA guy who's supposed to review the paperwork before the airplane gets its registry number and is legal to fly.

Because that's the procedure that's existed since the 1930s, Final delivery gets a paperwork review from both the Customer, and the FAA, before the plane can be delivered to load passengers.

so how many failures is that? It's a LOT of failures.

as reported in the news weeks ago, they figured out the cause because the rework document was still incomplete.

That means Alaska Airlines's rep didn't review the paper on the plane, neither did the FAA guy whose job is to issue the registry certification, but those guys shouldn't HAVE TO, and that's where you get into the internal problems with optimistic scheduling and overlooking details to 'make delivery'.

What was driving that? remember a couple planes going all nose-down and crash with full passenger loads because someone in the executive suite decided to make having three sensors instead of one an expensive option on a software that requires two-to-one comparison parity?

iirc, one of those was Lion Air?

Grounded the Max fleet for a couple years right during Covid?

yeah. 

The people who made that call, got their bonuses despite making a choice that killed people.  They're not the shareholders, they get their bonuses from their peers at corporate HQ.

where do THOSE guys get it? from a Board of Directors that doesn't include a single engineer or aviation professional, but does include several hedge-fund managers and lobbyists.

You know, people who know 'Tech is money' but don't know how or why it works.

They make us take an annual ethics course that mostly focuses on actions none of hte people I work with, will ever be in a position to do.  Nobody is ever going to bribe a guy who beats metal into airplane parts (or shapes) over a procurement contract, I'm never going to be at risk of overcharging the company on a business trip.  (not even if I get into AOG), I will never have the ability to hire a relative who is unqualified, because I don't have access to that level.

Why do we have those classes? because executives have been caught doing all those things.  They act unethically, we get to take a class telling us why it's wrong.

OTOH, falsifying a rework document, doing unauthorized rework or modifications, claiming to have done a process and not doing it? those come with ACTUAL LEGAL CONSEQUENCES.  Not just 'fired' but "Hello mister federal marshall please don't break my wrists as you arrest me".

See, that production paperwork? and the rework documents? those are LEGAL documents.  You put your stamp on it and it wasn't done, they can toss your ass in LEAVENWORTH.

The prison, in Kansas, not the charming german-theme tourist town with the cool Octoberfest in Washington.

so, y'know, multiple failures and there's a good chance that if DoJ wanted to, people would be under arrest, under indictment, and facing a judge over this, but it won't be the guy who didn't claim the work was finished, at least, if anything happens at all beyond some fines and embarrassment.

"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Giovanni Blasini

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The exact particulars differ of course, but that post definitely reminded me of all the joy and happiness that comes from working in an industry where mistakes kill people, Cannonshop.
"Does anyone know where the love of God goes / When the waves turn the minutes to hours?"
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Cannonshop

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The exact particulars differ of course, but that post definitely reminded me of all the joy and happiness that comes from working in an industry where mistakes kill people, Cannonshop.

Sadly, people forget that this stuff doesn't happen by some unconscious magic, and that you can't apply methods developed for disposable consumer goods to something like aircraft.
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Daryk

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Building a reputation for quality work is more expensive than squeezing that reputation for more profit.

Cannonshop

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Building a reputation for quality work is more expensive than squeezing that reputation for more profit.

It's not so much that it's 'more expensive'-quality work tends to be less expensive than 'cheap' work, but only if you look past the immediate moment.  It's not that it's less expensive, it's that it's less DIFFICULT to wring the reputation, than it is to maintain it.  (after all, it's really EASY to lose your reputation, but somehow, that's not what gets taught at Harvard Business Schools.)

the problem, is that Business Majors have been taught a three month horizon, beyond that point, they don't consider anything.  (Or at least, that's the behavior when they graduate business school to go run a manufacturing firm)

Why? because companies have to pay taxes on a quarterly basis-so earnings and everything else fall in line, and you can make bank if you can show a 'positive return' in an 'important quarter'.

even if you're LOSING money two months out of three.

Thus the pernicious influence of economists like Keynes telling people that the long term doesn't matter.

boy this is going WAY off topic...



Here's an airplane with a historical significance.
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Daryk

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I've seen that one in person!  Nice close up! :)

Sabelkatten

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IIRC there was talk about reopening the A380 line. Anyone who knows if there is anything to that?

glitterboy2098

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and those duties will be done by something else, probably made in Europe or China, when they run out of spares to keep the current Airforce One functional.
legally they can't. by the military regulations it has to be produced in the USA. so if airbus does end up with the contract, they'd have to build a factory for their A380 in the states.
and a chinese company is going to be a no-go due to current geopolitics, even if they did offer to build a factory in the states for it.

and the latest version of the VC-25, the VC-25B, are being delivered later this year. (they're derived from the 747-8I)
no doubt the USAF will be going over them with a fine toothed comb to make sure Boeing didn't screw anything up, and will fix anything they find.
as for spare parts.. the avionics and engines on the new VC-25B's are the same ones used on the 787, with the avionics augmented with the current USAF hardware. so as long as they don't take any major structural damage, they'll be able to keep it flying for decades due to the commonality.


i honestly wouldn't be surprised if we don't see users of the 747 upgrading their aircraft to similar set ups using the 787's engines and avionics in order to keep them flying longer.

I am Belch II

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The 747 freighter is going to stay around for a little while longer. The big selling point is that the nose can open up all the other freighters can’t.
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PsihoKekec

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IIRC there was talk about reopening the A380 line. Anyone who knows if there is anything to that?

There are couple of interested parties, but not enough to justify the costs, especially since the whole program was a net loss to Airbus.
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chanman

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Image I saw of various 4th gen fighters showing 3 main groupings:

1) Tailless delta with single tail. Both with and without canards
Mirage 4000, F-16XL, Typhoon, Rafale, J-10, Gripen, Lavi, Mirage 2000, Tejas

2) Cropped tailed delta with single fin (and single engine aside from the F-CK-1)
F-2, F-16, F-CK-1, JF-17, F-20, FA-50

3) Twin engine, twin tail
Su-27, F-15, F-14, F/A-18E, MiG-29, F/A-18A/C

« Last Edit: 25 March 2024, 16:57:26 by chanman »

I am Belch II

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The Su-27 is such a big plane.
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Daryk

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So is the F-14...

I am Belch II

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With the wings out for the Tomcat, yes its a big plane.
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chanman

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The Su-27 is such a big plane.

Different aerodynamics than the Eagle. Benefit of an additional decade or so of research, but also, the Eagle is aerodynamically conservative even for the F-X contest. The North American proposal (NA-335) has more pronounced wing-body blending and an underslung intake, foreshadowing the F-16, but also the complex shaping and wing planform has some resemblance to the Su-27

McDonnell Douglas was picked as the winner of the F-X competition in 1969 and the Eagle prototype first flight is in 1972, so it's based on mid-late 1960s aerodynamics and materials.

The Flanker first flight is only 5 years later (1977), but you can see the prolonged tweaking of aerodynamics (and capabilities in response to learning more about the F-15) between then and actual entry into service in the mid-80s (and the troubled development period with several fatal crashes and requirement for FBW that the MiG-29 didn't have).





truetanker

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Can anyone explain me the nature of this pic?



Because I want to say, they made an Air Force One for G.I. Joe...

Where's Cobra version?

TT
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worktroll

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Where's the 'motorised wench' ??
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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It's obviously some sort of fan work.  The GI Joe Mobile Command Center was a giant brick of a ground vehicle who's gimmick was to unfold into a three-level structure with a service bay for smaller vehicles and multiple consoles to place action figures at.  It was not a knock-off of Air Force One.

https://www.yojoe.com/vehicles/87/mobilecommandcenter/
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Istal_Devalis

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Because I want to say, they made an Air Force One for G.I. Joe...

Where's Cobra version?
Early Cobra stuff tended to be easy to tote around and hide, cause they werent a match in a stand up fight. Like you could fit two FANGs or a HISS in the trailer of a semi. But they had this thing in the cartoon.



Also a helicarrier, but that more their equivalent to the USS Flagg.

Garrand

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For a terrorist organization waging a secret war against the world, subtlety apparently was not really their thing...

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truetanker

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Thank you Grognards of Olde'!

With well aged and bodied minds, our younger selves relive the battles of yore...

*cough-cough-wheeze*

Eh? Where was I? Befuddles me mind me has... *struggles to remember, gives up, scratches his metaled butt before going off to sleep in a big comfy chair...*

*starts to snore*

But yeah, it was strange the stuff they came up with and the backstories, we ate it up, didn't we? Couldn't wait to see the next episode, damnable chores and homework lingering, threating "our" Joe/Cobra time.

TT
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That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

I am Belch II

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You know its a bad day, when the Tug for the aircraft comes with 20mm guns.
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truetanker

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You know its a bad day, when the Tug for the aircraft comes with 20mm guns.

That fires *Blue* when in use...

TT
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Daryk

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Where's the 'motorised wench' ??
This is also my question... ;D

Istal_Devalis

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For a terrorist organization waging a secret war against the world, subtlety apparently was not really their thing
They had their own island nation as time went on. When you're a military state/cult you're expected to have your logo everywhere. But yeah, the cartoon tended to go for spectacle over the comics version of Cobra, which was a lot less 'Saturday Morning Villain' in competency.

Ruger

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They had their own island nation as time went on. When you're a military state/cult you're expected to have your logo everywhere. But yeah, the cartoon tended to go for spectacle over the comics version of Cobra, which was a lot less 'Saturday Morning Villain' in competency.

Of course, to get the island, they didn’t do it the old fashioned way (buying it). Instead, at least in the comics, they had the Joes create it for them, just outside all territorial waters, so they could have their own UN approved legal rights to it.

Ruger
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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I don't believe the cartoon ever dealt with issues of how Cobra got any of its stuff, aside from Destro being rich thanks to his businesses.
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truetanker

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I don't believe the cartoon ever dealt with issues of how Cobra got any of its stuff, aside from Destro being rich thanks to his businesses.

Ahem.

Extensive Enterprises

Owned and operated by Tomax & Xamot Paoli, the Crimson Twins, leaders of the Crimson Guards, an Elite Cobra Viper group with a degree in either Law or Financing.

Advat Cobra-ling here... I have almost 30 SW Stormtrooper Corps Vipers in my collection. Hail Emperor Serpentor Palpatine, Sith Master! (Yes, I went there...)

TT
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Istal_Devalis

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I think we can assume that Cartoon Cobra got it's money the same way Comics Cobra did...
Pyramid schemes, money laundering, Con jobs, and bank robbery. It's just usually those arent flashy so why bother putting it on screen? We do see a few big money schemes.

Later we have Extensive Enterprises which is a 'totally legit' business, although the cartoon doesnt really go into details about what they actually do. Whatever plot demands usually. But probably finance, legal, and merchandising.

Destro isnt TECHNICALLY Cobra, although the cartoon kinda glosses over that. He's the owner of MARS Industries, which is an independant weapons manufacture. IE, he's who Cobra is handing over all their money too.