Are NARC Beacons obsolete or do they still have their niche uses?

[TigerShark]

I don't know. Maybe i'm just a weird player in that i don't like the Artemis IV.

You're not alone. Artemis IV (not V.... IV) sucks. Especially in the early era, where the SLDF thought 1 Artemis FCS = 1 ton of ammo. So you have a lot of launchers that are underfed (see the Rhino) to the point of making the design nearly useless when balancing by BV. I'd rather have an extra ton of ammo, more than any Artemis IV FCS.

[Hellraiser]

The problem with getting a NARC on any sort of fast platform is the size of the NARC itself.

I mean, honestly, a minimum of 4 tons on something that only has 6 tons for Guns total is quite the investment.

I'd still love to see it on more platforms regardless.


Obvious platforms where it would shine some.

SLDF Era or Later
Javelin, Jenner, Assassin, Phoenix Hawk, Wolverine, Crusader, Titan
Cyrano, Pegasus, Maxim


Clan Invasion or Later
Raptor-O, Strider-O, Firestarter-O, Menshen-O, BlackHawk-KU-O,
Harasser, Cavalry, Plainsman, Saracen, Drillson, Bandit-O, JES-I, Manteuffel-O


Its not much, less than 2 dozen platforms, but I think if even 1/2 of them were given a solid NARC variant it would drastically improve the selection of NARC options out there.

[grimlock1]

BA NARC offers a lot of potential nasty.

[Empyrus]

The problem with getting a NARC on any sort of fast platform is the size of the NARC itself.

I mean, honestly, a minimum of 4 tons on something that only has 6 tons for Guns total is quite the investment.

Only if you want to sneak behind enemies and tag them so.
While i am a Capellan who appreciates such tactics, i'm too much of a Star Leaguer (or a Lyran or FWL admirer subconsciously) and i'm inclined to use wall of steel tactics... My Raven will walk along side my slower 'Mechs and tag enemies who come too close.

You're right in that the game could use fast (8/12 speed or so)'Mechs with Narc beacons though. If for nothing else than offering that option.

[Sartris]

BA NARC offers a lot of potential nasty.

I've always eyed the NARC BA with interest but I've never been in a situation where I got to try them

[Empyrus]

A problem with BA Narc is that only few types of BAs come with it.
Two of them are Blakist suits, the Purifier and Nephilim, though the Purifier does get use by the Republic of the Sphere.
The others are the Oni (Drac exclusive) but it trades its attack capability for Narc, and the Grenadier that is FedSuns exclusive.

For Blakists, i can see myself using Purifier. Otherwise... eh...
Wish there were other options, preferably something that isn't an assault-class suit and something that also mounts some weapons along with the BA Narc.

[garhkal]

Losing benefit's from ton's worth of equipment. Multiple tons, usually, if firing multiple launchers.
Also figure that Artemis kinda discourages use of alternate munitions more so than Narc beacons do, again because of the Artemis benefit being tied to that module and launcher.
I don't feel bad about using Narc-equipped ammo shots against non-Narced targets, because my 'Mechs didn't pay any extra for the Narc launcher.

I don't know. Maybe i'm just a weird player in that i don't like the Artemis IV.
The Narc i like because it offers that no-spotter option, and my Star League and Capellan forces both have Narc carriers anyway (the Kintaro and Raven). Heck, my FedCom unit might have one too, think i assigned a Raven to them as well.

If one or two units in a group are LRM boats, with say 2-3 LRM 20s or 15s each, I personally prefer artemis on both mechs..  Now if say 5+ mechs are LRM boats, then yes having 1-2 narc units is a lot better..

The problem with getting a NARC on any sort of fast platform is the size of the NARC itself.

Plus with Narc you have to HIT with it, and need 1-2 other units sporting the launcher in your team.  If they get taken out, you've wasted the funds for the 'narc capable' ammo..

[Luciora]

Maybe the NARC should have been the tonnage of the SRM-4 and maybe 8 shots instead?

[Charistoph]

If one or two units in a group are LRM boats, with say 2-3 LRM 20s or 15s each, I personally prefer artemis on both mechs..  Now if say 5+ mechs are LRM boats, then yes having 1-2 narc units is a lot better..

Or a few LRM Carriers?

[Empyrus]

Amusing side thing: i was reading TRO 2750 and noticed that the original Narc worked a bit differently. The Narc bonus applied only to 'Mechs with the Narc beacon.

In any following Combat Phase, any successful missile attacks by a Narc-equipped unit...

Additionally, the cost of missiles for a Narc-equipped unit is doubled...

It is possible the intent was the thing would work like it does now but if so, they certainly didn't write the rules carefully. RAW, as i understand them, do not refer to Narc-compatible missiles like things nowadays do.
Of course, there are other differences in the tech rules as presented in the book. The Gauss Rifle functions normally, with no mentions about the weapon being explosive. XL engines can't be used for ASFs or vehicles. And some other things

[Alsadius]

If Narcs only worked for Narc-equipped units, they're worse than Artemis in basically every way - short range, no coordination with allies, and it's heavier. Outside of maybe a SRM carrier, it'd be madness to use one. That was good errata.

[Empyrus]

Indeed. I suspect the intent was what it would be later on, that anyone with Narc-equipped missiles getting the bonus, its just that writing wasn't particularly careful.
Original BT rules have some other weirdness too, such as jump jets not caring about height of objects you'd be about to go over unlike nowadays (mostly a logical issue rather than a gameplay one). Don't think FASA was ever particularly careful about this stuff.

[Sir Chaos]

For SRMs, Artemis IV is better because it enhances them without removing anything but once Streaks are around... well, Streaks are a better option overall, and immune to non-Angel ECM as well unlike Artemis.

"Once Streaks are around"? Are they ever not around when Artemis IV is?

IMHO, Artemis IV on SRM is pointless; the extra mass is better invested in larger/more launchers (which have the benefit of cheaper, more readily available ammo) or conversion to Streak SRM (which has the benefit of lower ammo cost because fewer shots are used). And neither of these alternatives are in any way affected by ECM, unlike Artemis IV.

[Empyrus]

"Once Streaks are around"? Are they ever not around when Artemis IV is?

IMHO, Artemis IV on SRM is pointless; the extra mass is better invested in larger/more launchers (which have the benefit of cheaper, more readily available ammo) or conversion to Streak SRM (which has the benefit of lower ammo cost because fewer shots are used). And neither of these alternatives are in any way affected by ECM, unlike Artemis IV.

Once larger Streaks are around*.
Strictly speaking 3xSSRM-2 is better than single SSRM-6 because you can probably hit with some missiles at least. It is just annoying to build 'Mechs with small Streaks, they take a bit more space (a problem when all weight saving techs are used). Plus canon designs tend to use SSRM-2s with too much ammo, while designs mounting an SRM-6 with Artemis or Streak SRM-6 tend to be properly supplied.

Lets put it this way. If my 'Mech options have SSRM-2s, SRM-6 with AIV, or LRM with AIV, i'm inclined to pick SRM-6 with AIV of those.
If you throw in LRMs without AIV, i'll take that, especially if i can get a Narc beacon from somewhere as well.
Obviously 2xSRM-4 is better option than SRM-6 with AIV.

[garhkal]

Maybe the NARC should have been the tonnage of the SRM-4 and maybe 8 shots instead?

I'd be down with shunting a Narc launcher to being akin to an SRM 4 with special ammo (so 12 shots a ton vice 25)..

[Iceweb]

(Also, why do Clanners get Narc? It's totally out of place - it's a very IS sort of weapon.)

If my memory is correct, Aidan Pryde did just fine in a duel (I think) for his bloodname in a Summoner with LRMs and Narc. 
He used jets to close quickly tagging the other guy with a pod, and then jumped out to pelt his opponent with LRM salvos. 
Given the lighter weight of clan LRMs it might have made sense to use the narc instead. 

But really the fluff ability of Narc to guide in every single homing warhead to the target is so much better than the in game effect. 

Also if you are willing to custom you can make a nice VTOL with 2 srm6 launchers and a narc in 3055 to do your podding. 
I am shocked that such a vehicle was never made in the cannon books for common use.

[Empyrus]

The Clans aren't big on Narcs. They can use them... but their use in duels is limited, used as Aidan Pryde did, and elsewhere it is a bit lowly job, to tag enemies and let others to finish them off.

A bit weird they actually bother maintaining those really. For some reason cloaking systems like Chameleon LPS are big no no, but team-work oriented equipment are ultimately used to an extent. Guess the pragmatic voices were strong enough to let them keep this stuff.

[Kit deSummersville]

Well, remember that winning without honor is better than losing with honor.

[Empyrus]

Indeed, hence i wonder why not just use CLPS and Null Sig systems. If the enemy can't see me, it is their fault they're genetically inferior and blind...

(Seriously, i suspect the thing is that the Clans saw those systems way too complex to be resource effective. And perhaps their leaders were afraid...)


Interestingly, it seems the Inner Sphere has exactly twice as many 'Mechs with Narc as the Clans: 22 vs 11 (33 total).

[RoundTop]

NARC units (Note: not iNARC, multiple variants listed separately):

IS: 22 mechs (11 different), 5 vehicles
Clan: 11 mechs (10 different), 1 vehicle

Of special note, the Strider 0A mounts 2 NARC launchers. The only unit to mount 2.

[Sartris]

I'm surprised there was never a VTOL variant royal or otherwise that employed a NARC launcher

[garhkal]

I'm surprised there was never a VTOL variant royal or otherwise that employed a NARC launcher

How's about this!
Edited out fan made design.

Check this thread
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=60965.0

[Weirdo]

Fan designs belong in which forum again? C:-)

[Kit deSummersville]

Fan designs belong in which forum again? C:-)

Reddit!

[Weirdo]

Well, you're not wrong... :)

[glitterboy2098]

I question the validity of the conventional fan wisdom that Narc should be on fast movers.. in my experience, fast movers are far too fragile to use as a Narc'er. the existance of the Narc system on one makes it a fire magnet, no matter how much it evades or is screened by non-Narc'ing units. given the limited range of the Narc system, that makes trying to pull off narcing with a fast mover a suicide mission.

i've had the most success with the Narc toting unit being slower moving line of battle heavies, where they can weather incoming fire long enough to narc more than one or two units. just stick the Narc'ers with your battle lance, and then have an LRM heavy fire support lance advancing behind taking advantage of the Narc bonuses to lay down the damage.

[TigerShark]

I question the validity of the conventional fan wisdom that Narc should be on fast movers.. in my experience, fast movers are far too fragile to use as a Narc'er. the existance of the Narc system on one makes it a fire magnet, no matter how much it evades or is screened by non-Narc'ing units. given the limited range of the Narc system, that makes trying to pull off narcing with a fast mover a suicide mission.

i've had the most success with the Narc toting unit being slower moving line of battle heavies, where they can weather incoming fire long enough to narc more than one or two units. just stick the Narc'ers with your battle lance, and then have an LRM heavy fire support lance advancing behind taking advantage of the Narc bonuses to lay down the damage.

So a 4/6 being a fire magnet survives longer than a 12/18 speed VTOL? Maybe on your table. :)

Depends on the size of the playing field and the terrain, as well. But I can't imagine a scenario where a 4/6 is far enough ahead of other 4/6 and 3/5 units that it can NARC something and benefit an entire Lance behind it. Especially in a case where IDF is the preferred tactic.

Assuming your illustrative army is facing an equal-BV force, that's 2 opposing Lances firing into 1 Lance of line 'Mechs as they move into short range to tag something with a NARC pod. With fire support straggling behind in Medium or Long range?

I'd take that scenario any day of the week. That NARC unit would be dust before it did very much.

[Iceweb]

To add to what TigerShark said, there is nothing wrong with a cheap disposable fast Narcer with good ejection seats. 
Since it is cheap you take a lance of them instead of just a single one. 
You might be able to throw up enough anti air to stop a single VTOL or hover with a launcher but can you stop 4 of them before I can tag a few targets? 
If you have enough anti air to do so I am not so worried about your capability to take out my launcher meks, and the occasional Narc equipped Stalker or Kintaro can pod what is needed. 

Narc is a force multiplier so make sure you have enough forces to use it properly. 

[Luciora]

I'm surprised that NARC wasn't a straight field swap for many SRM-6 toting mechs in universe considering most of them would be in well supported lances or units that could take advantage of the compatible warheads, like a Javelin, Commando, Whitworth, (Trebuchet has a NARC loadout already) Hunchback, to name a few.

[Hellraiser]

I'm surprised there was never a VTOL variant royal or otherwise that employed a NARC launcher

Agreed, or even a Warrior or Cavalry variant in later years.

I'm surprised that NARC wasn't a straight field swap for many SRM-6 toting mechs in universe considering most of them would be in well supported lances or units that could take advantage of the compatible warheads, like a Javelin, Commando, Whitworth, (Trebuchet has a NARC loadout already) Hunchback, to name a few.

This is what I was talking about above.
What the Treb really needs is an upgrade of the 5S/7M = 7S where you use SRMs & NARC.