Author Topic: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!  (Read 199716 times)

Lyran Wolf

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While their full demise within the Exiles is not detailed, the Wolf Empire did spin up the 4th Wolf Guards Cluster using the core of a WiE Binary they captured.  So it stands to reason they probably were ground into nothing within the Exiles and that captured Binary lives on in the Wolf Empire Alpha Galaxy.

The 1st Wolf Legion also sold itself to hold the Falcons at bay while everyone else evacuated Wolf City during the fall of Arc-Royal.  They are clearly part of the 3148 offensive into the Falcon OZ so they are brought back up to some strength by then.
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Colt Ward

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While their full demise within the Exiles is not detailed, the Wolf Empire did spin up the 4th Wolf Guards Cluster using the core of a WiE Binary they captured.  So it stands to reason they probably were ground into nothing within the Exiles and that captured Binary lives on in the Wolf Empire Alpha Galaxy.

The 1st Wolf Legion also sold itself to hold the Falcons at bay while everyone else evacuated Wolf City during the fall of Arc-Royal.  They are clearly part of the 3148 offensive into the Falcon OZ so they are brought back up to some strength by then.

Unfortunately that is probably covering Stackpoles just using the same cluster numbers from the invasion.  The 1st Strike Grenadiers were the offensive into the OZ in '47 BEFORE they left the Lyran worlds.
Colt Ward
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Lyran Wolf

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Looks like you are correct.  Just reread that part of Shattered Fortress.

Might need to write the 1st Wolf Legion off.
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Colt Ward

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Yeah . . . the Wardens never called them selves 'in exile' they were just Wolf Clan, AND they had the most remains of the SLDF and Guard clusters . . . never made sense for them to lose those unit histories in FMWC- militaries just do not do that, and the Clans were no exception otherwise they would not have had SLDF clusters.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Wrangler

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Being slightly jaded, i don't think entire IlClan "Empire" will be called the Star League to be honest.  If anything only in name as whole, no trappings of old vestige of SLDF.   Clans aren't anything about "Defense" in their armies.  :D
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Guardian11

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Interestingly the Wolf Empire has two Clusters under the name 4th Wolf Guards. They have the 4th Wolf Guards Cluster in Alpha Galaxy and the 4th Wolf Guards Assault Cluster in Zeta Galaxy. I think the 4th Wolf Guards Assault Cluster is the one built from the captured WiE Binary, and the 4th Wolf Guards Cluster is the 4th Wolf Striker Cluster, who between 3085 and 3145 earned the right to wear the Guards designation.
I always figured and some of the naming in the various sourcebooks seems to back this up, that the Wolves used the Guards designation similar to how the Soviet/Russian military use the Guards designation to note a unit that has distinguished itself in battle and earned greater distinction and favor as a result.

Colt Ward

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No, 4th Wolf Guards is the cluster Ranna led and was part of Phelan's galaxy before the Refusal War.  It got tagged with 'Assault' a few times- FASA fact checking- but none of the members were with Vlad.

Like I said, when they let Stackpole do . . . I think it was Masters of War?  He threw out the old Wolf clusters he was familiar with . . . 4th Wolf Guards, 328th, 341st & 352nd Assault Cluster, and I think the 279th Cluster . . . the latter 3 were all Star League legacy clusters.  They were part of Natasha's force and escaped off Wotan to rejoin Phelan.  Vlad never used those cluster numbers when he reformed the Crusader Touman, probably for very good political reasons, but Stackpole threw them out so TPTB had to put them back in the Crusader line up.  For the same sort of Clan political reasons (and just how militaries operate) Phelan should never have abandoned the 328th, 341st, 352nd, and 279th designations instead of creating 1st & 2nd Legion, 1st & 2nd Strike Grenadiers when he was reforming the Warden touman after Morges and with Wotan survivors.
Colt Ward
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"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

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Guardian11

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I am aware of the 4th Wolf Guards history and that it ended up with the Wardens after the Refusal War split, and that it was Ranna's Cluster up until her death in the Jihad. I was just stating what the sources say about the Wolf Empire having two 4th Wolf Guards Clusters in FM3145. Though I do admit that my explanation for possibly why there were two 4th Wolf Guards Clusters in the Wolf Empire Touman was wrong.

FM3145 specifically lists the Wolf Empire having a 4th Wolf Guards Cluster under Alpha Galaxy and a 4th Wolf Guards Assault Cluster under Zeta Galaxy. Era Report 3145 has a section about Alpha Galaxy's 4th Wolf Guards Cluster that describes their origin as being formed from a captured WiE Binary and a bunch of just graduated Warriors by Khan Elsa Ward in 3099. Then when Zeta Galaxy was formed the 4th Wolf Guards Assault Cluster was apparently created for that formation. That history could have been created due to various authors not tracking the unit histories correctly as you surmise, but it doesn't explain why Zeta Galaxy has a 4th Wolf Guards Assault Cluster, or where it came from.

With the Wolves already established as having the 4th Striker Cluster in Alpha Galaxy in both Falcon and Wolf and FM3085 a simpler explanation of the 4th Wolf Guards showing up in Alpha Galaxy during the Dark Ages would have been that the 4th Wolf Striker was reflagged as the 4th Wolf Guards or even 4th Wolf Guards Striker Cluster just as the 3rd and 13th Battle Clusters were redesignated as the 3rd and 13th Wolf Guards Battle Clusters. Then the origins of the 4th Wolf Guards Assault Cluster in Zeta Galaxy could be explained as being formed from Warriors just out of training with a core of captured or defected WiE Warriors, especially since that would make sense considering the origins of the rest of Zeta Galaxy, at least the brand new Warriors part. But that's just how I would have handled it, or not even have put a 4th Wolf Guards Assault Cluster in Zeta Galaxy.

I happen to like the designation of the Wolf Guard Clusters with a role name. Especially since even from WCSB each of the 3 original Wolf Guard Clusters could be pegged as each having a different role. The 4th Guards was obviously an Assault Cluster, and the 11th Guards was definitely a Striker Cluster, while the 13th Guards would fit comfortably into the Battle Cluster role.

SteveRestless

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Being slightly jaded, i don't think entire IlClan "Empire" will be called the Star League to be honest.  If anything only in name as whole, no trappings of old vestige of SLDF.   Clans aren't anything about "Defense" in their armies.  :D

Their long stated purpose has been to reform the star league though.

the original SLDF was kindof tongue-in-cheek about the defense themselves, but hey, I welcome our new SLOF if it comes to that.
Шонхорын хурдаар хурцлан давшъя, Чонын зоригоор асан дүрэлзэье, Тэнхээт морьдын туурайгаар нүргэе, Тамгат Чингисийн ухаанаар даръя | Let’s go faster than a falcon, Let’s burn with the wolf’s courage, Let’s roar with the hooves of strong horses, Let’s go with the wisdom of Tamgat Genghis - The Hu, Wolf Totem

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Their long stated purpose has been to reform the star league though.

the original SLDF was kindof tongue-in-cheek about the defense themselves, but hey, I welcome our new SLOF if it comes to that.
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Foxx Ital

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people of the inner sphere unite or i'll shoot!
My favorite battle cry since 1st succession war.
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SteveRestless

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people of the inner sphere unite or i'll shoot!

Mmmh, that's funny and all, but it's probably more like...

"People of the Inner Sphere, Join Our Star League and we will shoot your neighbors. Until/unless they agree to join, and then both of you can resolve your differences through civilized trials"

But that's not good for a laugh :p
Шонхорын хурдаар хурцлан давшъя, Чонын зоригоор асан дүрэлзэье, Тэнхээт морьдын туурайгаар нүргэе, Тамгат Чингисийн ухаанаар даръя | Let’s go faster than a falcon, Let’s burn with the wolf’s courage, Let’s roar with the hooves of strong horses, Let’s go with the wisdom of Tamgat Genghis - The Hu, Wolf Totem

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My favorite battle cry since 1st succession war.
It's probably been the favorite battle cry of the Inner Sphere since the Age of War.

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Mmmh, that's funny and all, but it's probably more like...

"People of the Inner Sphere, Join Our Star League and we will shoot your neighbors. Until/unless they agree to join, and then both of you can resolve your differences through civilized trials"

But that's not good for a laugh :p

this is why clan standup never caught on

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Colt Ward
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Wrangler

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Wasn't there like two 4th Wolf Guard units to begin with? Because they belong to opposing Clan Wolves?  Sort of them trying Claiming the heritage of the past?

When i was helping on Sarna. I noticed there were duplication in names, in the source book it was same thing.  It's older problem than current Field Manuals suggest.  If you type in name of a command in the search bar on Sarna you will see in brackets editors that editors noted which faction they belong to.  4th Wolf Guard (Clan Wolf), 4th Wolf Guard (Wolf in Exile) among the search results.

Some of the WiE commands were renamed, but not the 4th Wolf Guards.
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Colt Ward

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So . . .

4th Wolf Guards (Cyclops Cluster) were in WCSB under Alpha Galaxy, CO was Star Colonel Jera Carns.  Delta has a 4th Wolf Striker (Red Death), its the one commanded by a Scorpion abthaka and I always confuse it for the 37th b/c they are in the same galaxy.  We get 4th Wolf Guards Assault as a F&W or maybe Objective Raids creation- no previous mention.  In fiction for the Refusal War, its just the 4th Wolf Guards commanded by Star Colonel Ranna of the Kerenskys.  Post-Refusal War we get the two sides rebuilding in FMCC & WC, Vlad only uses a few previous clusters (while also misplacing half the touman) which for the most part are mentioned in the end of F&W IIRC (forgot to get that one digital!) like 103rd Striker or something.  It makes sense for Vlad, because he had to put some distance between him and the Invasion Wolves who stood with Ulric while very likely having very little of the troops who had accompanied Natasha to Wotan.

Phelan (for some reason) also abandons most of the legacy clusters and any that came with them.  The only ones Phelan keeps is the 4th & 16th Wolf Guards along with re-using the Keshik names (Golden & Bronze) . . . he abandoned all the Invasion Wolf clusters when he should have reformed them instead of creating new clusters because he was insisting they were the continuation of the Invasion Wolves.  Unlike Vlad, he had most of the surviving leadership of the 279th, 328th, 341st, 352nd, and IIRC the 37th Striker.

I have not looked at FMU in a while, but even by 3067 Vlad has not reconstituted the Invasion legacy clusters.  The first IRL mention of them after that is in Masters of War where Stackpole trots back out his favorite numbers without seeming to know or care they were gone.  We get mention of them being elite and frontline, but nothing in the novel explains how the Crusaders reconstituted them . . . which gets really interesting considering even as 3132/33 rolled around the Clans as a whole had not recovered to pre-Jihad strength levels b/c they accepted Stone's down-size.  So now Catalyst PTB get handed a reference to the old Invasion clusters and must come up with why the Crusaders re-constituted clusters that were tarnished with the genocide taint . . . though Wars of Reaving make that easier, no GC to care.

Also, the Guards designation is supposed to supersede Regulars/Assault/Striker/Battle whatever- its a unit award for a cluster that did something outstanding or critical for the Clan as a whole.  I cannot remember if we ever actually were told if the 4th was a Assault, Striker, etc but it replaced that and I think had existed for a while- supposed to be one of the prestigious commands right up with the SLDF legacy clusters.  We get the 13th Wolf Guards, but they get the moniker- with a bit of handwaving- from Natasha's role in the Dragoons and testing back out as a Star Colonel.  So by what it means to be 'Guards' the 'Assault' designator should have been lost . . . but when TPTB were needing cluster names, they dusted off the old source to restore one who colors (supposedly) were cased since the Refusal War reshuffling.

Though it is interesting to note, outside of Phelan, Ranna, Marco Hall, or Omega's CO not a single Star Colonel or higher from the Refusal War seems to survive.  Apparently the Galaxy Commander and Star Colonels in the Homeworlds all fell in the shower during the Refusal War too.  Statistically very unlikely, IMO it had to be done for Vlad to assume leadership- if everyone who is left is a Star Captain, then having a Star Captain become Khan will not raise waves.  While I like the story of the Refusal War, its one of the biggest examples of FASA failure in fact checking and sloppiness.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

truetanker

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Looks like the Wolf Empire might needs to be using abstracted units at this time.

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Question: What second line disgraced Galaxy Commander back in the Home Worlds is going to gainsay the man who just freed the clan from a fate worse than annihilation?
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Colt Ward

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Because whoever is left in the Home Worlds is not going to be disgraced.  If you look at who Vlad left in the Home Worlds, he left a arse kicker to look after Wolf interests.  Further, its likely the Wolves left frontline clusters in the Home Worlds during the Invasion.

But the point was- there should not have been a break down of communication that left a Star Captain as the most senior member of the Clan left.  Even if you swallow no Star Colonel survived on Wotan, you still had the Red Keshik's Galaxy Commander John Ward (Delta Galaxy Command), Delta's 4th cluster, Epsilon Galaxy- Green Keshik (Galaxy Commander Anton Fetladral), Star Colonel Jewel (Choyer), Star Colonel Sanal (Dorbeng), Star Colonel Jersano (Gurbeng), Star Colonel Evon (Nega)- who had ristars or oldsters as officers (Evon becomes Evon Ward?), plus other clusters like the 24th Rangers Cluster (frontline, Obj Raids), 9th Wolf Guards (frontline, Pouncer fluff), and whatever Lajos was assigned (last BoK book).  Further you have the rest of the secondline & garrison galaxies besides Tau, Epsilon, and Omega- who never saw action in the Refusal War.

Command on Wotan should not have broken down- the odds of all Star Colonels dying at once while in combat is laughable.  None of the Tau (6), Delta (2), or Gamma (2 + Bronze Keshik) officers survived to maintain command.  The only Star Colonel we know that survived on Wotan was Star Colonel Marco Hall, who retreated off planet with the remains of the clusters of Natasha's spearhead (3rd Battle, 13th, 341st, 352nd) along with some who were in Ulric's spearhead (Bronze Keshik, 37th, 11th Guards, plus individuals).  Some like the 11th Battle ended up Wardens trapped on Wotan, who were bled out by Vlad.  In the Clans, the next warrior is always ready to leap into the still warm shoes of a superior officer.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Guardian11

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It definitely seems like the writers missed an opportunity to have Vlad as at least a Star Colonel filling the shoes of Garth Radick and Conal Ward as the head of the Crusader movement among the Wolves, or since he wasn't Bloodnamed yet, the power behind the throne for whatever Bloodnamed Warrior was the face of the Wolves' Crusaders. That would have made his rise to Khan a bit more believable, and Vlad could very well have been given command of one of Tau Galaxy's Clusters in order to better set up his rise to Khan in the aftermath of the Refusal War.

Colt Ward

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Star Captains and even Star Commanders have jumped to being the Khan, so his doing that makes sense . . . it just goes back to the writers & FASA at the time dumped 2/3 of the Clan in a black hole and of the remaining third gave Phelan a quarter of that . . . outside of warships- that was a pretty even firepower split, though Vlad got the flagship for some reason.

Anyway, Vlad is not as much the stretch- he was a political character and magnet for Crusaders who believed he was held back by Ulric/Natasha/Phelan (and somewhat true).  Vlad has a version of the hero's journey myth . . . its Marialle being saKhan rather than one of the surviving Galaxy Commanders or Star Colonels who sat in the OZ or Home Worlds . . . or even Dalk Carns, the Loremaster of the time who probably died offscreen but is not confirmed.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

SteveRestless

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Encouraging that we can add the Adder to the list of what CWX is producing on Donegal, with the Jaguar, Linebacker and the Soujourner.
Шонхорын хурдаар хурцлан давшъя, Чонын зоригоор асан дүрэлзэье, Тэнхээт морьдын туурайгаар нүргэе, Тамгат Чингисийн ухаанаар даръя | Let’s go faster than a falcon, Let’s burn with the wolf’s courage, Let’s roar with the hooves of strong horses, Let’s go with the wisdom of Tamgat Genghis - The Hu, Wolf Totem

Colt Ward

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The question is, did the Wardens take everything when they left?
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

SteveRestless

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I think the question goes deeper than that.

Last I had looked, I thought the Exile Adder line took a Blakist plane to the face and went offline along with their Timber Wolf production. Or was that the Ice Ferret that took the crash?

Point being, I didn't know there was something to take. Given the phrasing in the RG, I think, the Linebacker and the Adder, and whatever else they're building ontop of the Jaguar, is fresh production.
Шонхорын хурдаар хурцлан давшъя, Чонын зоригоор асан дүрэлзэье, Тэнхээт морьдын туурайгаар нүргэе, Тамгат Чингисийн ухаанаар даръя | Let’s go faster than a falcon, Let’s burn with the wolf’s courage, Let’s roar with the hooves of strong horses, Let’s go with the wisdom of Tamgat Genghis - The Hu, Wolf Totem

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I think the question goes deeper than that.

Last I had looked, I thought the Exile Adder line took a Blakist plane to the face and went offline along with their Timber Wolf production. Or was that the Ice Ferret that took the crash?

Point being, I didn't know there was something to take. Given the phrasing in the RG, I think, the Linebacker and the Adder, and whatever else they're building ontop of the Jaguar, is fresh production.

It was both. By the end of the Jihad, the Exiles had no Omni production at all

It does seem that the Linebacker and Puma lines are new as of their retreat to Donegal.
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Mecha82

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The question is, did the Wardens take everything when they left?

What I wonder is how they took things with them without anyone noticing.
Star Captain John Malthus, Kappa Galaxy, Clan Jade Falcon 
Star Captain Johannes Bekker, Delta Galaxy, Clan Ghost Bear 
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SteveRestless

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It was both. By the end of the Jihad, the Exiles had no Omni production at all

Well, they reestablished the Arctic Wolf II pretty quick, didn't they?

Шонхорын хурдаар хурцлан давшъя, Чонын зоригоор асан дүрэлзэье, Тэнхээт морьдын туурайгаар нүргэе, Тамгат Чингисийн ухаанаар даръя | Let’s go faster than a falcon, Let’s burn with the wolf’s courage, Let’s roar with the hooves of strong horses, Let’s go with the wisdom of Tamgat Genghis - The Hu, Wolf Totem

Deadborder

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Well, they reestablished the Arctic Wolf II pretty quick, didn't they?

The Arctic Wolf II was developed during the Jihad, but didn't enter production until 3085. Even then they needed Lyran help to get the line up and running
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