Help with early 3050s Second-line 'Mechs

[ocherstone]

I'm trying to put together a plug and play OpFor with an IS Clan force, and wanted some input.  The parenthesis are more exclusive (but by no means completely exclusive), and can be traded out for non-exclusives, along with Omnis that they may or may not have.  Any thoughts on other secondline that would fit the loadouts and/or speed?  Is my organization completely out of whack? Anything you absolutely would or wouldn't do?

Provisional Garrison Cluster / Reserve Cluster / Solhama
Alpha Trinary
Kingfisher 4/6/0 - Kodiak 4/6/0 (CGB) - Glass Spider 2 4/6/0 (CW)
Hunchback IIC 4/6/4 - Grizzly 4/6/4 (CGB) - Fire Scorpion 4/6/0 (CJF)
Glass Spider 4/6/0
Warhammer IIC 2 4/6/0 – Mandrill 4/6/4 (CSJ)
Warhammer IIC 2 4/6/0

Atlas C 3/5/0 - Supernova (CNC) 3/5/3
Annihilator C 3/5/0 - Supernova (CNC) 3/5/3
Imp C 3/5/0 – UrbanMech IIC 3/5/3
Rifleman IIC 3/5/3
Highlander IIC 3/5/3

Rifleman IIC 2 4/6/4 - Marauder IIC 4/6/0 - Matador 4/6/4 (CJF/CSV)
Guillotine IIC 2 4/6/4 - Stone Rhino 6 4/6/2 (CSJ)
Guillotine IIC 2 4/6/4
Wyvern IIC 4/6/4 - Corvis 4/6/4 (CGB/CDS)
Wyvern IIC 4/6/4

Bravo Trinary
Summoner 5/8/5 – Lupus A/B 5/8/0 - Black Python 5/8/5 (CSV)
Nova D 5/8/5 – Great Wyrm 5/8/0 - Huntsman Prime/A/C 5/8/5 (CNC)
Thresher 5/8(10)/5
Champion C 5/8/5
Firefly C 5/8/4

Shadow Cat A 6/9(12)/6 – Pouncer D 6/9/5 (CW) - Vapor Eagle 6/9/6 (CSV) – Kit Fox S 6/9/6 (CJF)
Conjurer 6/9/6
Conjurer 6/9/6
Shadow Hawk IIC 6/9/6
Clint IIC 6/9/6

Phoenix Hawk IIC 2 5/8/5
Phoenix Hawk IIC 2 5/8/5
Griffin IIC 6/9/6
Horned Owl 2 6/9/6
Horned Owl 2 6/9/6


Charlie Trinary
Fire Moth A/D 10/15(20)/0 – Ice Ferret Prime/D 8/12/0 - Piranha 9/14/0 (CDS)
Snow Fox 8/12(16)/0 - Incubus 2 9/14/0
Incubus 2 9/14/0
Locust IIC 8/12/0
Locust IIC 8/12/0

Arctic Cheetah 8/12/6 (CSJ) - Incubus 9/14/0
Icestorm 12/18/0 (CW) - Jenner IIC 9/14/7
Jenner IIC 9/14/7
Jenner IIC 9/14/7
Incubus 9/14/0

Mongrel A 7/11/7 (CDS) - Coyotl Prime 7/11/0
Mist Lynx Prime 7/11/6 - Howler 7/11/0
Howler 7/11/0
Howler 7/11/0
Howler 7/11/0

Updated a little.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Aren't the Snow Fox and Ice Storm pretty exclusive to the Hellions?

[ocherstone]

Icestorm has Wolf on the MUL, so I'm confident there.

You are correct on the Snow Fox. Have a replacement? Specifically near the same speed, loadout, and more Nova Cat friendly?

[snewsom2997]

Jenner IIC, Fire Falcon is also an option, Stalking Spider is an option in 3059.

[ocherstone]

I have a few Jenners, but that's certainly doable.  3059 is a bit late for that Stalking Spider.  How would a Fire Falcon and Black Lanner feel at Tukayyid in a Secondline Cluster?

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

It would be highly unusual to see brand-new omnimechs in a second line cluster.

[snewsom2997]

I have a few Jenners, but that's certainly doable.  3059 is a bit late for that Stalking Spider.  How would a Fire Falcon and Black Lanner feel at Tukayyid in a Secondline Cluster?

How about this, A Coyotl Omni.

[ocherstone]

I like a Coyotl.  What would the thoughts be on a Pulverizer, Stag, or Mercury II?

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

No Clan would ever retain such tainted mechs.

[Xiwo Xerase]

The issues I see with the Pulverizer et al are:

• The Pulverizer is barely better than Star League tech.  The other Wolverine 'Mechs are Star League tech.
• The Pulverizer likely to be a rare 'Mech.  It was state of the art when it came out in 2823, by 2840, many of the standard Clan BattleMechs, with Clan weapon technology, are being built and these outclass the Pulverizer.  Most of the Pulverizers built were likely either destroyed during the Clan Wolverine Annihilation or during Trials afterwards.  (TechManual claims Clan Snow Raven's first built BattleMech was the Pulverizer, so there may have been non-Wolverine Pulverizers.)
• The Mercury II and Stag are likely to be even rarer since they may not have been built outside of Clan Wolverine.

A second-line force in 3052 may have Star League BattleMechs, e.g. the Mongoose or Mercury.  For pure Clan options, how about the Mist Lynx or Ice Ferret?

[ocherstone]

I see the point.  I did like the thought of a Snow Raven Pulverizer, but that may be a post-Tukayyid thing.  Along with scraping the bottom of the barrel for mothballed SL-tech.

I do like the Mist Lynx and Ice Ferret, added them as alternates.  Any second-line worthy 'Mechs I'm missing?  Any issues with the groupings?  I feel the Black Lanner and Fire Falcon are too new, but would the Sharks throw a Mongrel to a well-connected Star Captain at Tukayyid?

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

If you were still that well connected, would you be in a second-line unit?

[deathfrombeyond]

I’m a bit confused by the Clan abbreviations after some of these Mechs. CW, CSJ and the like. Are all these stars supposed to belong to the same clan, or....

[ocherstone]

They're exclusive or associated with that Clan.

Bravo Trinary
Summoner 5/8/5 – Thresher 5/8(10)/5 - Black Python 5/8/5 (CSV)
Nova D 5/8/5 – Great Wyrm 5/8/0 - Huntsman Prime/A/C 5/8/5 (CNC)
Thresher 5/8(10)/5
Champion C 5/8/5
Firefly C 5/8/4

Summoner is an option, but maybe you don't like omnis in your second line. So you take the Thresher. You're not a Steel Viper, you you don't take Black Python. Or you do, all optional.

Let's say you are a Nova Cat, so we have the choice between Nova, Great Wyrm, and Huntsman. We already took an Omni 2 omnis seems like a lot for second line, so Great Wyrm.

The others are all generic enough that they should be fine for any Clan. The Star is Summoner, Great Wyrm, Thresher, Champion, Firefly.

Hope that makes sense.

edit: also, I realize some may not be to that Clan (Mandrill with Smoke Jags), but that Clan either shares some planet with the original Clan, fought just before REVIVAL with them, or I really needed a third for that Clan and it was my best option.  It's why I made this post to see how badly it offended others.

[deathfrombeyond]

It's why I made this post to see how badly it offended others.

:: shrugs ::

I think if people get offended with others mixing fictional kit, they’ve got way too much free time.

I think you might want to put in a Star or so of star league era fighters.

[Hellraiser]

Stone Rhino 6 in the early 3050's?

That doesn't seem right.

[ocherstone]

Stone Rhino 6 in the early 3050's?

That doesn't seem right.

MUL says 2999...  The 4 and 5 are even earlier.

Earlier than the 2 or 3.  What can you do?

[Hellraiser]

I think that is a misprint/typo/error in the MUL.

The 5 is based off stats for a SLDF model, but it wasn't actually made by them or w/ SLDF tech, its a clan tech machine afaik.

I'm thinking that date has to be a century too early.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

No, the Behemoth variants that were added in Record Sheets: 3055 Upgrade Unabridged are apparently supposed to have debuted at the time listed in the MUL.  I asked about that when they first appeared.

[Hellraiser]

That makes total sense then to call them the 4-5-6, lol.

Ok, w/e works.

I like the MAC variant one w/ LB5X & ERML.



On a different note.

No Clan would ever retain such tainted mechs.

IDK Ogre,   the Ravens were clearly building it.

Methinks they captured the stats from the Wolverines & put it into production.

But that's just a guess on my part based on it being the Raven's first new mech.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

That makes total sense then to call them the 4-5-6, lol.

Ok, w/e works.

I like the MAC variant one w/ LB5X & ERML.

I believe that the explanation was that those were the Inner Sphere designations.

[nckestrel]

I believe that the explanation was that those were the Inner Sphere designations.

Bingo. 
No idea what the Clans call them, if anything.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

The only canon example I can think of was in Path of Glory, when a Jenner IIC 3 was simply called a Jenner by its pilot.

[ocherstone]

The only canon example I can think of was in Path of Glory, when a Jenner IIC 3 was simply called a Jenner by its pilot.

I can't imagine a pilot spouting off the model of their machine. Maybe they're listed by the main weapon, or if it's an old SLDF make. "I pilot an original machine brought by the Kerenskys while you pilot a patchwork of wires!"

But I always imagine someone walking up to a 'Mech "look at that Marauder!" Not MAD-5S. I agree that I don't think they care about the IIC 6.

Back to the point, how much priority would Clans put on the weapons systems matching? Am I too clean with the differentiations?

[DOC_Agren]

But I always imagine someone walking up to a 'Mech "look at that Marauder!" Not MAD-5S. I agree that I don't think they care about the IIC 6.

only those weapon system "geeks", we have 1 in our local gaming group who can spot the variant when he see them