Mech of the Week: PTR-* Penetrator

[Alexander Knight]

The trick there is the lack of Overheat.  The stock PTR can do up to 6 damage at Short or Medium range if gets really froggy.  The -4F is stuck at 4 or 5 damage period.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Well, the moratorium period finally ended on Record Sheets: 3150 so that means there's two new variants to talk about, and they're both trying to put a similar spin on the Penetrator.

The PTR-7D showed up in TRO 3150: New Tech New Upgrades all the way back in 2013, but we didn't get the actual record sheet for it until this year, while the PTR-8D appeared in Recognition Guide 27.  Both use Reflective Armor to give themselves an advantage against enemy lasers and PPCs (and plasma and flamers) but diverge from there.

The 7D swaps out the ER Larges for a pair of Snub-Nose PPCs and uses Actuator Enhancement Systems to improve their accuracy.  The six medium pulse lasers in the torso are untouched, and it saves weight with an XL Gyro at the expense of crit vulnerability in the center torso.

The 8D uses Reengineered Large Lasers in the arms for the same accuracy as the AES-enhanced Snub noses, but with more damage at medium and long range and, of course, the ability to punch through Reflective, FL, or Hardened armor on enemy mechs.  It switches the pulses over to standard medium lasers and swaps the AMS for a LAMS, eliminating ammo dependency at the expense of the LAMS's high heat burden.  To help with that, it's got an extra double heatsink (a total of 26 dissipation compared to 24 on the stock or 7D) and a single coolant pod as an emergency cool-down measure.  Durability is improved thanks to mounting more armor than the 7D and having a Compact Gyro instead of an XL.

Me, I'm dubious about putting fragile Reflective Armor on a mech that's slow and only mounts short-to-medium range weaponry.  I think the 8D does it a bit better, but I'd be real nervous about anyone getting into slapping range with it, and most of the things it fights will be close to that by the time it can start shooting.

[Weirdo]

For general combat I'll agree that the 8D looks like the better choice.

To me, the 7D looks like a bodyguard, the kind of machine that hangs back and doesn't do much, but you thanks your lucky stars it was there when that fast strike against your missile lance or force commander just got its guts blown out.

[Wrangler]

Revisiting the rules with Reflective Armor, it functions like normal armor against non-energy attacks except when things get physical or someone is firing Armor-piercing ammo of some kind.  That if Pentrator's tricky gyros goes by by and keels over  and falls down armor plants on the hard pavement.

Funny, in RPG campaign I was in, I took over a player character 's Penetrator, so I drove 4T for realtime years. It was always a tough cookie to wrangle with  oncoming attackers.  I used it as a body guard to my actual character's ride, Thunder Hawk providing fire support.  But it was no way going do well against mugger/close combat machine.

I do wish there had Penetrator C variant make even upgrade of the original model.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I don't recall Reflective Armor ever having any sort of interaction with Armor Piercing munitions.  It's AoE weapons like artillery, mortars (using anti-personnel rounds), and bombs that it dislikes.

[glitterboy2098]

I don't recall Reflective Armor ever having any sort of interaction with Armor Piercing munitions.  It's AoE weapons like artillery, mortars (using anti-personnel rounds), and bombs that it dislikes.

Tactical Operations, p. 281. Armor-Piercing autocannon ammunition, Tandem-Charge missiles, and BattleMech Tasers all have a higher chance to go through the armor and cause crits.
and yes it also takes more damage from AOE attacks and melee hits (including falls)

[SteelRaven]

I do like the swap to standard Medium Lasers and LAMS, it's a real light show now!

[Greatclub]

The next question is, do you really want to get that close to something mounting 6 medium * lasers, reflective armor or not? You can't kick off a leg if you're down yourself.

[Colt Ward]

The next question is, do you really want to get that close to something mounting 6 medium * lasers, reflective armor or not? You can't kick off a leg if you're down yourself.

This is a pretty good point, unlike the Thunderbolt stinker.

I actually used the -7D tonight in a Dominions Divided scenario at the state's con . . . the AES/Snub combo is pretty nice.  We had a Ball-Ref Thug try to flank, so I reversed and swung the arms over at the Drac to add my fire to a Marauder II 10D and Battlemaster to light it up.  Only hit with 1, but the three lightshows put out enough damage to drive that Thug back away from the flank.

And yes, I backed up to keep the No-Dachi on the OTHER flank from getting closer.

[Greatclub]

The thunderbolt stinker also has a boatload of short range firepower - heck, it has small VSPL, the MPL replacement you give to people who "know" how bad the MPL is.

[Vonshroom]

Revisiting the rules with Reflective Armor, it functions like normal armor against non-energy attacks except when things get physical or someone is firing Armor-piercing ammo of some kind.  That if Pentrator's tricky gyros goes by by and keels over  and falls down armor plants on the hard pavement.

Funny, in RPG campaign I was in, I took over a player character 's Penetrator, so I drove 4T for realtime years. It was always a tough cookie to wrangle with  oncoming attackers.  I used it as a body guard to my actual character's ride, Thunder Hawk providing fire support.  But it was no way going do well against mugget/close combat machine.

I do wish there had Penetrator C variant make even upgrade of the original model.

The 4D is just such a solid mech, with the heavy armor, flashbulb armament and std engine its a tough nut to crack. As you said they have trouble with some attackers but whatever goes up against a Penetrator is going to get hurt. The new ones don't do it for me. The loss of the punch of the ERLLasers for snubbies make the 7D a bit of a dud in my opinion and I don't like reflective armor. Especially on a jumper if you flunk a PSR it really hurts. The 8D is more of the same but the Re Engineered LLasers don't offer the same range as the old school ERLLaser did and you are stuck with more reflective armor on a bad chassis to mount reflective armor on. The LAMS is a nice addition but ultimately I would rather have an old 4D versus any of the new variants, some of that may just be my experience with them.

[Colt Ward]

The 4D is just such a solid mech, with the heavy armor, flashbulb armament and std engine its a tough nut to crack. As you said they have trouble with some attackers but whatever goes up against a Penetrator is going to get hurt. The new ones don't do it for me. The loss of the punch of the ERLLasers for snubbies make the 7D a bit of a dud in my opinion and I don't like reflective armor. Especially on a jumper if you flunk a PSR it really hurts. The 8D is more of the same but the Re Engineered LLasers don't offer the same range as the old school ERLLaser did and you are stuck with more reflective armor on a bad chassis to mount reflective armor on. The LAMS is a nice addition but ultimately I would rather have an old 4D versus any of the new variants, some of that may just be my experience with them.

Huh?  The -7D loses 3 hex of range and a bit of damage in the med/long ranges . . . but their short range is 9 hexes, where they do 2 more points of damage for 'punch' than your ERLL which has a short range of 2 hexes less than the Snubs.  The -8D's RELs lose 3 hexes as well, but does 1 point more of damage against non-special armor and gets a -1 TH bonus.  Both are also better on heat management, 2 & 3 heat points respectively, more important with the REL since the -8D has that LAMS.

[MarauderD]

Me, I'm dubious about putting fragile Reflective Armor on a mech that's slow and only mounts short-to-medium range weaponry.  I think the 8D does it a bit better, but I'd be real nervous about anyone getting into slapping range with it, and most of the things it fights will be close to that by the time it can start shooting.

I'm definitely painting one up, but having played a couple games of classic this past year, falling down is definitely a thing that happens.  I'd be hesitant to put anything less than a skill 3 pilot in this, because failing a PSR is going to really hurt.  I don't love the move towards reflective.  If anything, it makes the old 4D more compelling.

[Colt Ward]

I'm definitely painting one up, but having played a couple games of classic this past year, falling down is definitely a thing that happens.  I'd be hesitant to put anything less than a skill 3 pilot in this, because failing a PSR is going to really hurt.  I don't love the move towards reflective.  If anything, it makes the old 4D more compelling.

Should the Davions duplicate the Hammerhead but with Reflec?

[SteelRaven]

https://www.sarna.net/wiki/File:Measure_of_a_Hero.jpg

https://www.sarna.net/wiki/File:Call_of_Duty.jpg

https://www.sarna.net/wiki/File:Operation_Audacity.jpg

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Was that intended as a reply to someone?

[MarauderD]

Should the Davions duplicate the Hammerhead but with Reflec?

Maybe AES in the legs would help on a Reflec mech, because 15 point falls are ridiculous.  Although, I'd just as soon go the other way and use standard armor and not worry about it. 

[smdvogrin]

Should the Davions duplicate the Hammerhead but with Reflec?

Maybe AES in the legs would help on a Reflec mech, because 15 point falls are ridiculous.  Although, I'd just as soon go the other way and use standard armor and not worry about it.

Except you can't get AES in the legs on a Penetrator, because it takes up 3 crit slots for heavy mechs.  Mediums/Lights are the only place you can do the Hammerhead trick.

[SteelRaven]

Was that intended as a reply to someone?

My mistake, I must have been more tired than I thought and responded to a question on the first page 

[Colt Ward]

Except you can't get AES in the legs on a Penetrator, because it takes up 3 crit slots for heavy mechs.  Mediums/Lights are the only place you can do the Hammerhead trick.

Which is why I said the Hammerhead . . . doesn't a Legionnaire use Reflec?  Give a speedster Reflec and send it after Drac energy boats in the lines of battle.