BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat
BattleTech Game Universe => Clan Chatterweb => Topic started by: tassa_kay on 15 June 2018, 11:56:01
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And we’re back!
It still amazes me that, for a Clan that was hardly ever in the fiction and spent the majority of its time pouting ina corner, we’ve had one of the most active fan threads on the Chatterweb.
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As long as were here the Blood Spirits are never done.
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And we’re back!
It still amazes me that, for a Clan that was hardly ever in the fiction and spent the majority of its time pouting ina corner, we’ve had one of the most active fan threads on the Chatterweb.
The Spirits actually got more of a spotlight than some Clans.
"A Tale of Mercy in Defeat" - Chris Hussey
"Tears of Blood" - Randall N. Bills
"The Color of Rage" - Randall N. Bills
"River of Blood" - Uncredited scenario
"'Mechs From Heaven" - Uncredited scenario
The Goliath Scorpions, by comparison, just got "Fragments of History" and the "Under Pressure" scenario, and the Star Adders, despite their martial dominance, actually don't have any fiction from their POV.
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The Star Adders actually do have one story from their POV: “Color of Rage” by Randall Bills, in the 25 Years of Art and Fiction book. :)
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The Spirits actually got more of a spotlight than some Clans.
"A Tale of Mercy in Defeat" - Chris Hussey
"Tears of Blood" - Randall N. Bills
"The Color of Rage" - Randall N. Bills
"River of Blood" - Uncredited scenario Ken' Horner
"'Mechs From Heaven" - Uncredited scenario Ken' Horner
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Thanks. Any idea why BattleCorps left your name off your scenarios?
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No, I'm not sure. Maybe just the format of the day. I did all of them in 2009 and 2010, plus a few others later.
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And I quite enjoyed them both. :)
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You're now properly credited in the Master Fiction Index.
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The Spirits actually got more of a spotlight than some Clans.
"A Tale of Mercy in Defeat" - Chris Hussey
"Tears of Blood" - Randall N. Bills
"The Color of Rage" - Randall N. Bills
"River of Blood" - Uncredited scenario
"'Mechs From Heaven" - Uncredited scenario
Where can I find these?
The Goliath Scorpions, by comparison, just got "Fragments of History" and the "Under Pressure" scenario, and the Star Adders, despite their martial dominance, actually don't have any fiction from their POV.
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BattleCorps, I believe. “Color of Rage” is in the 25 Years of Art and Fiction book.
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We got all the fiction because were more interesting than some other Clans. You can only make the Ghost Bears or Wolves look good for so long before you have to show the other side of the coin.
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Explains why the bears don't seem to really do anything, too busy looking good 8)
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Explains why the bears don't seem to really do anything, too busy looking good 8)
Too busy trying to go back to hibernating after being rudely awakened by the story team throwing them unexpected territorial gains, you mean ;D
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Too busy trying to go back to hibernating after being rudely awakened by the story team throwing them unexpected territorial gains, you mean ;D
Hey it is hard to go back to sleep when you get rudely awaken like that
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Enough about Bears. This thread is about how awmuch some Blood Spirits are...
Speaking of which, Tassa, I believe they were during your interregnum but i did a bunch of Mech of the Week articles on some of our common designs, and more expert input is always appreciated.
Speaking of which I'm going to go review them. It's been a while since I've laid eyes on BattleTech stuff, much less my 7th Blood Drinkers.
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Snow Raven here. Got any more of them
il-Chis Ill-Cheeze? :D
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At GenCon 2011, I played in the Steel Viper vs. Blood Spirit event. To provide the Clan with its trademark espirit de corps, I burst out:
“Who’s got...Blood Speeee-rit? Come on, let’s heeeear it! Yeah!” Pep rally style.
The Commando running the game just stared at me in shock for a minute or two, then admonished me to “never do that again.”
Vipers went down, so...
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I like the thread name!
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whew! saw that global mod post and panicked for a moment.
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At GenCon 2011, I played in the Steel Viper vs. Blood Spirit event. To provide the Clan with its trademark espirit de corps, I burst out:
“Who’s got...Blood Speeee-rit? Come on, let’s heeeear it! Yeah!” Pep rally style.
The Commando running the game just stared at me in shock for a minute or two, then admonished me to “never do that again.”
Vipers went down, so...
That Commando didnt know how to have fun did he?
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Speaking of which, Tassa, I believe they were during your interregnum but i did a bunch of Mech of the Week articles on some of our common designs, and more expert input is always appreciated.
I’d be happy to take a gander and give what little, albeit amateurish, input I can.
Also, congrats on writing these articles, my friend!
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I did articles on the Battle Cobra and Crimson Langur.
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I did articles on the Battle Cobra and Crimson Langur.
That article got me to buy a Crimson Langur.
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That article got me to buy a Crimson Langur.
I already had 7, but after that, I needed to round out to two full Stars.
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Awww, now I'm blushing.
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I always dug the Spirits. I'm re-reading Wars of Reaving, and even as things went to Hell around them, they did their best to remain honorable.
...and, of course, anyone the Star Adders hate so much can't be all bad. :D
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I still wish things had gone differently. I expounded to Paul last week when I had the chance to meet him that I would have had the Spirits go berserk and crush the Burrocks when they split from the Adders, paving the way for ending the feud with the Adders. The Spirits get the revenge they wanted, the Adders don't have to worry about another Clan wanting to rip out their collective throats, and everyone is happy.
Well. Happy-ish.
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I still hold out hope. It springs eternal.
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Yeah, I felt the Spirits’ canon fate to be one of the worst parts of the WoR book. Not because of my love for them, but because it was simply bland, predictable and lackluster. I too felt it would’ve been much more entertaining to see them reach rapprochement with the Adders by destroying (or helping to destroy) the resurgent Burrocks. Yet they were destroyed instead, and the Coyotes were ludicrously allowed to survive betraying the Clans. It’s what put me off BattleTech for a while.
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Finished my Alpha Galaxy Light Star, An Adder, Vixen, Crimson Hawk, Mandrill, and a Piranha. Next is my Heavy/Assault Star. So far from what I have on hand it will be made up of a Blood Kite, Timber Wolf, and a Predator. But now I need two more. I'm thinking from this bunch so I dont duplicate mechs I've already done in Blood Spirit colors. Gargoyle, Naga, Bowman, Nova Cat, Warhammer IIc or a Canis.
What do you all think?
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Canis for sure. I've got one too and it will be painted soonish, and with all those lasers it just screams Blood Spirit to me.
And the Whammy is probably a good pick too. The heavy laser variant is murder on two legs.
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Indeed. Remember the Fallen.
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Yeah, I felt the Spirits’ canon fate to be one of the worst parts of the WoR book. Not because of my love for them, but because it was simply bland, predictable and lackluster. I too felt it would’ve been much more entertaining to see them reach rapprochement with the Adders by destroying (or helping to destroy) the resurgent Burrocks. Yet they were destroyed instead, and the Coyotes were ludicrously allowed to survive betraying the Clans. It’s what put me off BattleTech for a while.
I went into WoR with the assumption that the Spirits were doomed from the start. And then they just kept surviving and I actually held out hope that they would somehow make it, only to see them basically wiped after the fact. It's still a great book, probably one of the top five that I own for BT, but that one part did indeed feel "lackluster" to me.
Of course, in our current campaigns at home, we have the Cloud Cobras and Blood Spirits replacing the Ice Hellions and Hells Horses hitting the Falcons and Wolves respectively. The former to get out of the shadow of the Adders (and using the Babylon Diets as a justification for removing the Falcons from the IS), the latter as it's the only way they can ensure their interpretation of Kerensky's vision (and with almost tacit approval from the Adders as an "easy out" from the quagmire of York, since they need to focus units elsewhere).
Takes a certain amount of "shark jumping" required, but mostly because we have CC and BS forces, whereas we have no IH or HH units put together, and it's hard not to use some beautifully painted 'Mechs if they're available.
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I think the Gargoyle and Nova Cat would look positively devastating in CBS Alpha colors. Though I also agree the Canis would probably be a coveted piece of Isorla too.
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I think Canis and Nova Cat. Lots of firepower with the Blood Kite and Timber Wolf to add LRM fire.
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... I actually held out hope that they would somehow make it ...
(https://i.imgur.com/d5SGoPc.jpg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/d5SGoPc.jpg)
That didn’t necessarily mean they were destroyed. They could have been Abjured and simply left. Just saying.
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I think its more of a comment on the fact that the Blood Spirit icon is still there partially, unlike the icons for the other Clans that have died.
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I see the faded but not totally erased insignia and all I can think of is the strangeness in Blood Avatar
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I see the faded but not totally erased insignia and all I can think of is the strangeness in Blood Avatar
Blood Avatar is the one reason I really have hope the Clan survived in part. That and when Honor and Haven were destroyed the Star Adders destroyed dropships leaving the planet which meant there probably were jumpships in orbit they were trying to reach. What if the Colleen System wasn't the only new colony world the Spirits had founded? What if they had set up another smaller one when there new hidey hole was discovered? That's my theory.
Oh, I decided on a Matador and a Nova Cat to help make up the Alpha Galaxy Star I'm working on. Found out I already have a Canis I've painted. Might as well as get a Matador which I don't have yet.
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Well, everything that we know about the Blood Spirits is whatever the Diamond Sharks figured out. If you assume that the Diamond Shark intelligence isn't 100% accurate and Omniscient, anything is possible.
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The other option is the other Clans competed for Blood Spirit heritages and formed new bloodhouses in there Clans or the Blood Spirits shared heritages pre-WoR and Blood Avatar featured them on a scouting mission.
I could also see the dezgra Star Adders creating sibkos of pure Spirit warriors but using them for infantry or to fill the watch.
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The other option is the other Clans competed for Blood Spirit heritages and formed new bloodhouses in there Clans or the Blood Spirits shared heritages pre-WoR and Blood Avatar featured them on a scouting mission.
I could also see the dezgra Star Adders creating sibkos of pure Spirit warriors but using them for infantry or to fill the watch.
I wouldn't put making new clans or resurrecting old clans in order to add more puppets into the Clan Council past the Star Adders. Cut off a Galaxy or so of troops, gift them bloodnames, sibkos, a landhold somewhere and voila! Two more puppet votes in the Council.
It would be very Star Adder-y to make a "new" Blood Spirit puppet as a lasting insult (or reminder of what they are capable of) to their foes.
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As interesting as that might be as a means for resurrecting the Clan, I don't think the Adders would do it. The Burrock resurrection probably left a bad taste in their mouth.
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If the Adders decide to reactivate Blood Spirit bloodlines, I believe they would be a great addition to the Star Adder Clan.
Taught the true way of the Clans (AKA Star Adder way ;) ) without the bitterness, driven by the idea to prove the value of their bloodlines again they could be among the most fanatic and loyal future Star Adder warriors (AKA "from Saulus to Paulus" effect).
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And the Cloud Cobras got squat nothing outside of sourcebooks
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If the Adders decide to reactivate Blood Spirit bloodlines, I believe they would be a great addition to the Star Adder Clan.
Taught the true way of the Clans (AKA Star Adder way ;) ) without the bitterness, driven by the idea to prove the value of their bloodlines again they could be among the most fanatic and loyal future Star Adder warriors (AKA "from Saulus to Paulus" effect).
We’ll pass, thanks. :thumbsup:
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We’ll pass, thanks. :thumbsup:
Well said from a Passed Away ;)
So far we do not know what the Homeclans will be up to do. Maybe a new *super* Clan is supposed to arise from the surviving 4.
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Perhaps that’s a conversation best left for another thread.
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If the Adders decide to reactivate Blood Spirit bloodlines, I believe they would be a great addition to the Star Adder Clan.
Highly unlikely for such bitter enemies. The only reason the Burrock resurrection happened was because the absorption was a cooperative one due to Spirit interference and disgraced leadership, and despite being as friendly as possible look how that turned out in the end. Making a galaxy from another clan didn't work with their friends, so there's no way they'd do that with people who want them dead.
Think of how equally unlikely it would be if the situation were reversed. What are the odds of it not ending in an Adder rebellion? The only difference is that unlike the Burrocks the Adder survivors would wait and prepare until they could cripple the Spirits from within to ensure it would succeed.
If it did happen, and the Spirits spin off a new Blood Spirit/Star Adder sub-clan... Blood Spadder? Blood Spatter! The clan symbol would look like a crimson Jackson Pollock painting. :P
TLDR - Absorptions don't work. The only exception being Widowmaker, which was virtually annihilated before being absorbed and didn't have enough of the clan left to cause any problems.
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My money is Blood Avatar showed us a Watch Agent with a Blood Spirit lineage but not one from the Stone Lions or the Coyotes. The Adders probably have little interest in using the lineages themselves but have few issues with the other Clan's trialing for them and using them. The number of Bloodnames after the WoR was quite limited after all and using proven heritages from a Clan that survived the WoR would be seen as not wasting a resource.
Bad news, didn't refight Lovell today. Jeep broke down and while trying to fix it I actually had the muffler fall off. Going to reset the game for later in July and hope to have pics for then.
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Well, not quite. It showed us someone with a name that was an anagram for a Blood Spirit Bloodname. That's really it, unless I missed a big explanation.
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Refought Battle of Lovell yesterday. I fielded three Morrigus, five mediums and lights with two heavys and a Dire Wolf as my only Assault. Fought nine Star Adders in mostly mediums and Heavys and a single Blood Asp. Started out good, knocking one of the Hellbringers off its feet but quickly went downhill as my luck turned. Had a great time as my Dire Wolf swatted a Fire Moth with a single head shot and then it killed the Blood Asp in a single turn. Sadly the Dire Wolf got infernoed and combined with the heat caused ammo explosion checks. Which i promptly all failed.
That point my force was split in two and couldn't support each other and i got destroyed in detail. Ended with a Woodsman facing off with a Summoner and Timber Wolf surrounded by wrecked Morrigu's and a Stooping Hawk on the run when time ran out.
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Had a great time as my Dire Wolf swatted a Fire Moth with a single head shot and then it killed the Blood Asp in a single turn. Sadly the Dire Wolf got infernoed and combined with the heat caused ammo explosion checks. Which i promptly all failed.
That point my force was split in two and couldn't support each other and i got destroyed in detail. Ended with a Woodsman facing off with a Summoner and Timber Wolf surrounded by wrecked Morrigu's and a Stooping Hawk on the run when time ran out.
It's what you get when you knock my elite Gunnery Hellbringer down with no good targets. Reactor flooding your Mongrel with an LBX pellet was a high point though.
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It's what you get when you knock my elite Gunnery Hellbringer down with no good targets. Reactor flooding your Mongrel with an LBX pellet was a high point though.
Poor drowned Blood Spirit Mechwarrior drowning in a Diamond Shark Mech. At least there is Symmetry.
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Hello all,
While re reading the spirit naval reserve entry made me wonder what you all think the two lost ships in the burrock absorption were? One was the flagship and the other was total unknown.
So what do you think? Some have suggested a McKenna, Texas or Farragut as the flagship but what about the 2nd lost ship? Avatar, Essex or another aegis?
Reminder the spirits traded away a good chunk of their fleet so I would think they would have kept the best/most flexible back
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Btw prior to the absorption where was their fleet based?
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Most likely York, though I've never seen anything mentioned with regards to shipyards that they may have.
As for the other, no clue, we don't really have any information, so one guess is as good as another.
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I've always thought the Flagship would gave been either a Cameron-mostly due to the name or a McKenna. Eighteen left with Kerensky but we only have eight or nine named ones among the Spirit Fleet.
As for the second ship I would guess a York or another small warship. Not all there warships would have large ships .
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Right I think the second lost ship would be a congress or a Essex. I am leaning toward the Congress.
I don’t care for the Cameron as it always is depicted as a brick of a ship which underperformed
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It was a McKenna but all the weapons were removed and replaced with ER Large Lasers and LRM-15s.
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It was a McKenna but all the weapons were removed and replaced with ER Large Lasers and LRM-15s.
That would simplify maitnence now wouldnt it?
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It was a McKenna but all the weapons were removed and replaced with ER Large Lasers and LRM-15s.
I'll be in my bunk.
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I am going to go a bit different and have the missing ship be a Kimagure.
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It was a McKenna but all the weapons were removed and replaced with ER Large Lasers and LRM-15s.
funny! ;D
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It was a McKenna but all the weapons were removed and replaced with ER Large Lasers and LRM-15s.
Space Blood Kites were all the rage back then.
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Another Class possibility would be the Sovetskii Soyuz Class. Supposedly around 40 left with the Exodus Fleet but we only have around fifteen or so named. And the Clan's had at least one in mothballs after the Pentagon Wars as the Athena was put there after the Widowmaker Absorption. But who knows if there were more?
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Another Class possibility would be the Sovetskii Soyuz Class. Supposedly around 40 left with the Exodus Fleet but we only have around fifteen or so named. And the Clan's had at least one in mothballs after the Pentagon Wars as the Athena was put there after the Widowmaker Absorption. But who knows if there were more?
Right I picked one up but I think I will roll it into my jag fleet along w the liberator I just bought. I will have the spirits salvage the soyez after they take huntress
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I considered the Liberator as the Clan flagship but the math accounts for the 6 that went on the Exodus.
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I am
Curious why the powers that be are so exacting with numbers of units? As said it is clearly stated that only liberators existed. Why limit the number? Why not say “ 6 avatars were taken out of moth balls it is unknown how many avatars remain unmodifed”
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I am
Curious why the powers that be are so exacting with numbers of units?
LOL
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LOL
Do you know?
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Do you know?
The common lament is that recent publications have gone away from specific numbers (such as the production rates in the House Marik Handbook) to more vague descriptions. I think you'll find yourself in the minority with such a complaint.
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Firm numbers are always great but even I hot to admit they would hamper the game a lot. Particularly in the way of warships. Seriously, could you imagine the reaction if the writers pulled a McKenna out of the Dzvions backyard and just said 'but its always been there!' And warships are pretty big and obvious so exact numbers should be easier to account for rather than how many Atlas mechs were produced throughout the Inner Sphere in 3053.
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Firm numbers are always great but even I hot to admit they would hamper the game a lot. Particularly in the way of warships. Seriously, could you imagine the reaction if the writers pulled a McKenna out of the Dzvions backyard and just said 'but its always been there!' And warships are pretty big and obvious so exact numbers should be easier to account for rather than how many Atlas mechs were produced throughout the Inner Sphere in 3053.
87.2. It would've been 88, but Dave fell into the production equipment.
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We told Dave not to wear those Robes near the actuators.
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He never listened
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but to be fair his robe was comfortable, and he would have been fine if not for the belt flapping
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Was the sad part that everyone misses him now or that he destroyed one nice snazzy robe?
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Was the sad part that everyone misses him now or that he destroyed one nice snazzy robe?
Snazzy is an understatement. That was the kind of robe that Archons, First Lords, and ilKhans WISH they had. Really, I have no idea how he got it.
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I heard he found it in a box on the side of the road heading to the Starport, and he would have returned it but just too comfy
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Back to the original crux of the discussion. Unless the Blood Spirits were incompetent they would not have lost a Battleship against a Black Lion. So the Carmine Justice had to have been a cruiser or Battlecruiser. So like I said before it was either a Cameron or possibly another Black Lion. I am thinking it was a Cameron as if two Black Lions had duked it out I doubt the Star Adder Black Lion would have remained in service afterwords
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Back to the original crux of the discussion. Unless the Blood Spirits were incompetent they would not have lost a Battleship against a Black Lion. So the Carmine Justice had to have been a cruiser or Battlecruiser. So like I said before it was either a Cameron or possibly another Black Lion. I am thinking it was a Cameron as if two Black Lions had duked it out I doubt the Star Adder Black Lion would have remained in service afterwords
They still had a black lion after the absorption debacle do you think it was likely that they had two? I agree that a Cameron would be a likely contender but how about a McKenna or Farragut?
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A Texas also would be acceptable!
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A Texas also would be acceptable!
All the Texas Battleships that went with Kerensky can be accounted for in other Clan's fleets. Mckenna or Farragut's are also contenders but I have doubts as the Star Adders wouldn't take a Battleship on with a Black Lion. Its one of the reasons I'm betting on a Cruiser or Battlecruiser for the original Flagship. And with there already existing a Black Lion in the Naval Reserve I doubt they would have had a smaller ship as there Flagship.
Honestly I would love for it to have been a Battleship, but numbers don't lie as all the Farraguts were scrapped or left behind after the War against Amaris and the remaining Monsoon's were not part of the SLDF but the Amaris Fleet or the Star League Member States. We can even account for the remaining Dreadnoughts to a degree.
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What would recommend for a spirit air superiority and air to ground aerofighter?
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Blood Spirits probably didnt have the best Omnifighters and made use of updated SLDF designs primarily. But I would bet they would have a small core of Omnifighters. Gonna say Vandal, Turk, and the Visigoth are all good bets.
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Thanks! What about the gotha?
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I could see the Blood Spirits using the Gotha. Its not like any of the other Clan's would use them so there probably would be many in the Brian Caches. I wonder if other Clan's would even fight for them?
Great, now I want to design a updated Gotha for the Clan's.
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The gotha is a nice looking mini and a very solid design!
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Don't forget the standard Clantech fighters from TRO3067. I've always seen the Tyre as a common Spirit asset: simple, rugged, cheapish.
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Completely forgot about the Tyre. Probably the most common aerospace asset after refitted Star League era fighters in the Blood Spirits Naval Reserve.
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Because the spirits deployed aero forces “ as needed” from the naval reserve I wonder if Prideful ground pounders often did not call for sufficient air cover? Or was that call made higher up at the star colonel or galaxy level?
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So if the blood spirits had made less self destructive choices and eventually were in a position to expand their warship fleet. What warship extinct or current would be a great blood kite in spaaaaaace?
Meaning a heavy hitter with loads of armor and no weak points which was a simple to maintain but brutally effective weapons load?
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More Aegis-class cruisers. You can't sniff at that armor protection.
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More Aegis-class cruisers. You can't sniff at that armor protection.
That would be high on my list and the fact that it is so common speaks for its quality!
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There ties with the Ravens weren't that bad so I could see the Spirits getting them to build a Nightlord for there Fleet. Expensive to maintain yes, but parked over there Capitol and they would have few unwanted visitors.
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There ties with the Ravens weren't that bad so I could see the Spirits getting them to build a Nightlord for there Fleet. Expensive to maintain yes, but parked over there Capitol and they would have few unwanted visitors.
I wish! But in canon the spirits were so strapped for resources the traded away warships to the ravens when things got really tight. The nightlord is a great ship ( I think) but with such a gap between the size of their fleets and the adders wouldn’t making a bunch of congresses or aegis make more sense?
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I might have thought that the Spirits would have introduced the Clan idea of Pocket warships due their sparse resources.
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They never had the resources to innovate like that, though.
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To boost your fleet numbers we also have the example of what the ravens did the scorpions during the wars of reaving. http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Sagitta
Now do we think that this was a sign of the crazy times and or something that a small but elite clan like the mandrills or spirits could have tried?
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Slight topic deviation, but in MWO I'm running a Marauder IIC with four LRM-15s and two ER Large Lasers. Does that qualify as "Blood Spirit" enough?
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Swap one lrm15 for anothe ER large and you're 100% B.S.
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Swap one lrm15 for anothe ER large and you're 100% B.S.
Sadly, I can't mount any more Er Larges
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Sadly, I can't mount any more Er Larges
Good. If you made that swap, you're basically two thirds of the way to a Blood Kite so just run the Blood Kite.
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What do you think of maybe a Block II League warship in the clans?
Medium Naval Gauss and all...
TT
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So here I am looking at the PDF for Dig Defend or Die and its about the Green Ghosts. We have discussed them before and in this PDF it gives a few more details I didn't know. More pilot names and such. No blatant Blood Spirit references other than noting a sub-group operating in the 3080's made up of Clanners that leave no survivors. The Green Ghosts Force Table even includes a few common Royals, common Clan Second Line Mechs, and a few Omnimechs like the Dire Wolf. We do know the sub-group mentioned earlier uses two symbols-a Scorpion and a round disc with a Blood Drop in the middle. Anyone feel this second sub-group is made up of Blood Spirits that may have joined the Green Ghost's after the WoR or possibly a group that may have taken refuge in the Escorpio Imperio and is now working with Goliath Scorpion Seekers?
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As the second heaviest user of vechiles after the horses I am asking for suggestions from other spirit enthusiasts what units you use in an offensive role? Specifically I am looking to add to my alpha galaxy force which is noted for using small probing attacks. Shamash is a no brainer but what other clan or sldf units do folks like for offensive roles?
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Lightnings and Zephyrs can be fun.
Demons can provide a solid block for you to play with (GRs and SRMs!)
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Awwww, I can't talk about the Shamash? Because I love those little bastards.
Honestly though there are not a lot of Clan tanks that are really suited for general combat; they tend to be ridiculously under armored. Maybe the Ares? Just keep your distance.
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Indra points... add some PBI love to it!
TT
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Awwww, I can't talk about the Shamash? Because I love those little bastards.
Honestly though there are not a lot of Clan tanks that are really suited for general combat; they tend to be ridiculously under armored. Maybe the Ares? Just keep your distance.
Right? I should have clarified I am looking for units that have some staying power
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I should have clarified I am looking for units that have some staying power
Morrigu and variants. Homegrown, 13 tons of armor, ECM, and long-ranged/indirect firepower.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Morrigu (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Morrigu)
Basically a Blood Kite with treads.
If the Shamash's lasers weren't so useful on their own, they'd make great spotters for indirect Morrigu LRM fire.
I'd look to the old Bandit-C and/or Badger-C in various configurations for IFV/APC work. Maybe the Maxim-C and/or Svantovit.
The Clans really need a good main battle tank from the Golden Century. But absent that, I'd use the aforementioned Demon (Royal variant) and/or a smattering of Ares, Ishtars, Oros, and the like.
Maybe some Hueys for Arrow IV.
Hope this helps.
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I figured the Morrigu went without saying....
Demons have 10 tons of armor on a 60 ton tank. Unfortunately you're going to run into armor issues no matter what I think. Even the Mars the Spirits have access to only pack in 12 or so tons of armor.
So here I am looking at the PDF for Dig Defend or Die and its about the Green Ghosts. We have discussed them before and in this PDF it gives a few more details I didn't know. More pilot names and such. No blatant Blood Spirit references other than noting a sub-group operating in the 3080's made up of Clanners that leave no survivors. The Green Ghosts Force Table even includes a few common Royals, common Clan Second Line Mechs, and a few Omnimechs like the Dire Wolf. We do know the sub-group mentioned earlier uses two symbols-a Scorpion and a round disc with a Blood Drop in the middle. Anyone feel this second sub-group is made up of Blood Spirits that may have joined the Green Ghost's after the WoR or possibly a group that may have taken refuge in the Escorpio Imperio and is now working with Goliath Scorpion Seekers?
Interesting, I'll have to check it out, though I've heard its just another teaser product rather than filling in concrete info?
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Everything is a teaser these days.
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Glad to see everyone's still here. Hey guys! I've been absent since August, but I did find that someone has made a Frostgrave based set of rules for battlemechs! I'm going to talk my FLGS owner into trying them out. ;)
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Got a game in against a Hell's Horses player this past weekend. I took a Blood Kite, Crimaon Langur Prime, and Hellion B against a Savage Coyote Prime, Hellbringer Prime, and Warhammer IIC. The Warhammer killed the Langur - cored right through the torso, but not before I got some good shots in - and the Hellion tore the Hellbringer apart via ammo explosions. The Hellion then put a hurt on the Warhammer before getting legged, simultaneously to the Kite finally ending the Coyote by coring out its torso. The Warhammer, having been beaten up by heavy lasers, chose hegira over dueling my only lightly-damaged Blood Kite.
Vengeance for Smythe-Jewel!
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Got a game in against a Hell's Horses player this past weekend. I took a Blood Kite, Crimaon Langur Prime, and Hellion B against a Savage Coyote Prime, Hellbringer Prime, and Warhammer IIC. The Warhammer killed the Langur - cored right through the torso, but not before I got some good shots in - and the Hellion tore the Hellbringer apart via ammo explosions. The Hellion then put a hurt on the Warhammer before getting legged, simultaneously to the Kite finally ending the Coyote by coring out its torso. The Warhammer, having been beaten up by heavy lasers, chose hegira over dueling my only lightly-damaged Blood Kite.
Vengeance for Smythe-Jewel!
Very impressive, and against some pretty solid opposition to boot.
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So I just got a Huitzilopochtli. Anyone think it would be a good addition to my Blood Spirits eventually or is it too dezgra?
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If brute force doesn't solve your problem, you're not using enough.
Maybe not the most clan philosophy, but no more playing nice with snakes.
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Well what else do you have that could go with it?
A Mars supporting this makes a great companion, but so does a SLDF Burke...
TT
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Yeah, I felt the Spirits’ canon fate to be one of the worst parts of the WoR book. Not because of my love for them, but because it was simply bland, predictable and lackluster. I too felt it would’ve been much more entertaining to see them reach rapprochement with the Adders by destroying (or helping to destroy) the resurgent Burrocks. Yet they were destroyed instead, and the Coyotes were ludicrously allowed to survive betraying the Clans. It’s what put me off BattleTech for a while.
For what its worth me too
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Well what else do you have that could go with it?
A Mars supporting this makes a great companion, but so does a SLDF Burke...
TT
Funny you mention the Mars. I got one...missing the turret.
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Yeah, I felt the Spirits’ canon fate to be one of the worst parts of the WoR book. Not because of my love for them, but because it was simply bland, predictable and lackluster. I too felt it would’ve been much more entertaining to see them reach rapprochement with the Adders by destroying (or helping to destroy) the resurgent Burrocks. Yet they were destroyed instead, and the Coyotes were ludicrously allowed to survive betraying the Clans. It’s what put me off BattleTech for a while.
For what its worth me too
Agreed. 'Ludicrous' is a good word to describe the survival of the Coyotes in context of the Wars of Reaving, generally, and the demise of the Blood Spirits, specifically. 'Farcical' is another.
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For those with a interest, my year long goal to paint a Trinary of Alpha Galaxy is almost at a end. Only a Blood Kite is left. I would be done already but I ran out of a certain paint i needed.
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For those with a interest, my year long goal to paint a Trinary of Alpha Galaxy is almost at a end. Only a Blood Kite is left. I would be done already but I ran out of a certain paint i needed.
Congrats! Any Picts to share?
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Give me a week or two. I want to finish the Blood Kite first.
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If the spirits had saved their strength and not jumped into the burrock absorption what would have been good targets for them to take and hold during the wars of possession?
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I do not know why, but I just cannot get motivated to paint the Blood Kite. It really needs a better sculpt!
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Jags.
I read something a long while back where I believe one of the PTBs (Bryan Nystul?) was running a tournament, and do to poor showing in the IS the Smoke Jaguars were replaced by the Blood Spirits. That could somehow totally fall into the Great Refusal pt 2.
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Jags.
I read something a long while back where I believe one of the PTBs (Bryan Nystul?) was running a tournament, and do to poor showing in the IS the Smoke Jaguars were replaced by the Blood Spirits. That could somehow totally fall into the Great Refusal pt 2.
Interesting.... can you tell me any more?
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sure I can tell you more ... It might mean burning a few brain cells. Well, not really.
Basically, there was an idea (that didn't pan out, way to difficult to implement) where results from a tournament/convention would influence the game universe.
the Jags went up against the DCMS and did not perform as well any clan thought they should have. When they got pulled, it was the Blood Spirits who replaced them in their section of the invasion corridor. After that I have no details.
[wavy scooby-doo]
... Imagine in that replacement phase the 2nd Star League makes a push into what remains of the SJ territory and makes it to the Homeworlds, hits Huntress, then goes for the Trial of Refusal. Even if stymied again, (being a BS fan ... hah! BS fan, love the pun) I would at least give them a draw. Especially since they now have a slice of pie.
That gives the BS a whole lot of wiggle room and survival opportunities. Harvest Trials and Wars of Reaving take on a whole new narrative. With a limited fleet, perhaps they contract a lot more with Sharks and Ravens. Now, when they have a beef with the Adders, the Adders no longer get to play biggest kid on the block with a serious enough injury to dominate every other clan. Still toss in Society, renegade Burrocks, a weakened but not dead Viper. ... Save some Mandrills (absorbed by our beloved BS-ers).
[/end wavy scooby-doo]
I (kinda) get the need for less clans, but I was a big fan of the many.
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sure I can tell you more ... It might mean burning a few brain cells. Well, not really.
Basically, there was an idea (that didn't pan out, way to difficult to implement) where results from a tournament/convention would influence the game universe.
That sort of worked for the Legend of the Five Rings CCG, but BattleTech's sweeping story arcs and whatnot don't play well against tournament outcomes.
But it would have been nice to see a canon Blood Spirit utilization that amounted to a bit more than... Basically backdrop. Which I suppose is typical of every fan of every faction that doesn't get 90% of the screen time.
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That sort of worked for the Legend of the Five Rings CCG, but BattleTech's sweeping story arcs and whatnot don't play well against tournament outcomes.
But it would have been nice to see a canon Blood Spirit utilization that amounted to a bit more than... Basically backdrop. Which I suppose is typical of every fan of every faction that doesn't get 90% of the screen time.
We got quite a bit of fiction in comparison to some other Clan's on the old official fiction site. Whose name escapes me at this moment.
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We got quite a bit of fiction in comparison to some other Clan's on the old official fiction site. Whose name escapes me at this moment.
Sure, we had some BattleCorps fiction and whatnot, but that's not really what I was talking about. My aforementioned L5R reference - in their tournaments, if a player of Super Evil Faction A were to win a tourney, it would significantly alter where the storyline went, as opposed to a win by Super Good Faction Z. And I believe these tournaments were held a couple of times a year, so the company would leave themselves open story pivots to change direction (sometimes small changes, sometimes large ones) based on these.
So following Wolf72's line of comment, replacing the Jags with the Blood Spirits, even if they were wiped out at some point later, would be a fairly significant change and impact to the universe. Spirits getting a section in two Field Manuals and then annihilated in a sourcebook a few in-universe years later, as a footnote, after not accomplishing much, is back drop. St Ives made more of a splash.
Which is fine - not every single faction introduced into a game can be a mover and a shaker, and it wouldn't have made much sense for the Spirits to have been a huge driving storyline force like the Wolves or the Draconis Combine. Just for me, as a fan, and thinking aloud, I'd have liked to see more done with them. Not written about them (I'm sure the Burrocks, the Widowmakers, and the Mongeese, have had much less word count), but done with them.
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a-annihilated? *What you talkin' bout Willis!*
crap-on-a-stick; at least that's better than the way we went out anyway. I'd like to some sort of survival/heritage out there.
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a-annihilated? *What you talkin' bout Willis!*
crap-on-a-stick; at least that's better than the way we went out anyway. I'd like to some sort of survival/heritage out there.
So would I
The way the Spirits were treated completely turned me off CBT for years, and I've been involved with it to some degree since the 1980s
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I want to preface this question by assuming any responses would be conjecture and that is totally fine.
Re: the big battle of Albion during the Burrock absorption. Did the burrocks and adders bid away the use of warships?
I mean they were clearly in use but did they just transport until the spirits jumped in?
Albion is where the burrocks fought very hard against the adders so assuming Albion has a space defense system why was that not used? That question goes double for when the spirits attacked.
Best
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I want to preface this question by assuming any responses would be conjecture and that is totally fine.
Re: the big battle of Albion during the Burrock absorption. Did the burrocks and adders bid away the use of warships?
I mean they were clearly in use but did they just transport until the spirits jumped in?
Albion is where the burrocks fought very hard against the adders so assuming Albion has a space defense system why was that not used? That question goes double for when the spirits attacked.
Best
Even money was the SDS was probably not manned at that time with Burrock staff turning the station over Star Adder troops. By the time a warrior could take control the Adders wouldnt have had time to intercept properly. That and by that point the orbital defences might have been destroyed by Blood Spirit Aerospace assets. Its also possible the Blood Spirits jumped in away from Burrock/Star Adder warships at a Pirate Point and dropped there dropships then moved away to intercept and/or evade the Burrock/Star Adder warships.
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Even money was the SDS was probably not manned at that time with Burrock staff turning the station over Star Adder troops. By the time a warrior could take control the Adders wouldnt have had time to intercept properly. That and by that point the orbital defences might have been destroyed by Blood Spirit Aerospace assets. Its also possible the Blood Spirits jumped in away from Burrock/Star Adder warships at a Pirate Point and dropped there dropships then moved away to intercept and/or evade the Burrock/Star Adder warships.
I would think they would have used a pirate point and I would also think their aero arm was mauled as badly as their ground arm.
Albion should have been the largest naval battle of the absorption right?
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I would think they would have used a pirate point and I would also think their aero arm was mauled as badly as their ground arm.
Albion should have been the largest naval battle of the absorption right?
I believe so.
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So I've been working on a timeline of events for the Blood Spirits via the Wars of Reaving and just finished off the book, anyone care to see what I've got?
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Please do. As much as I love WoR, its lack of an overall timeline is frustrating
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Seconded.
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3062
September - Blood Spirits support Cobra side of Diet debate
3063
Clan Star Adder authorizes raids on York
3064
August - Clan Star Adder invades York
3066
Spirits gain a foothold on Arcadia
3067
Blood Spirits discover the Colleen System
Spirit WarShips sortie and destroy Adder WarShip Vritra
Iota Galaxy, with help from Fire Mandrills, attacks Adders on Tathis
ilChi Jas Keller manipulates the Fire Mandrills to create Kindraa Mick-Kreese-Kline
December - saKhan Troy Boques nominates Khan Garrett Sainze (Fire Mandrills) to the post of ilKhan
Blood Spirits vote in Grand Council to invade the IS after evidence of nuclear assault on Tharkad provided by Snow Ravens
3068
January - small Chrysaor factory comes online on Honor
Genetic repository built on Honor
Bood Spirits lose Elemental Facility 4 on York (their last Battle Armor Factory)
saKhan Boques bargains for and wins the Snow Raven's entire Zeta Galaxy, and a sibko of Aerospace pilots
September - Blood Spirits put Zeta to use and retakes Elemental Facility 4.
3069
Blood Spirits lose the Crimson Hawk and the scientific team building it to the Diamond Sharks in a Trial
Khan Karianna Schmitt leads Blood Guard Keshi to Arcadia, joinign Omicron Galaxy and captures several industrial Complexes. Material is distributed among York, Haven and Honor.
Blood Spirits push all of the Adders off of York except for a single enclave. The CSA Stellar Serpent remains in geosynchronous orbit
Khan Karianna Schmitt leads Alpha and Iota Galaxies to Albion and take 40% of the planet, including the Chrysaor factory
Khan Schmitt takes Alpha Galaxy to Arcadia and Trials for and wins the Steel Vipers' Roc factory.
5 November 3069 - Blood Spirits vote for the Steel Vipers' proposal that the Jade Falcons should be expelled from the Homeworlds
3070
March - Blood Spirits vote against the Vote of No Confidence in Grand Council.
Blood Spirits gain an enclave on Brim due to an arrangement with CSR
Blood Spirits lose an enclave on Brim to CSA.
April - Blood Spirits and Kindraa Sainze forces attack CSA Forces on Albion.
CCC's Delta Galaxy attacks and seizes CBS's ProtoMech factory on Arcadia, looting it before retreating
August - saKhan Boques and Loremaster Campbell go to Barcella with Omega Galaxy. Loremaster Campbell is killed in fighting against the Ice Hellions.
Star Colonel Constans Cluff is elected as Blood Spirit Loremaster
Blood Spirits gain several Raven enclaves on Circe, as well as thousands of lower castemen.
Blood Spirit forces gather on Albion
Star Adders attack Circe, with Blood Spirits defending with Omega, Sigma and Zeta Galaxies.
3071
January - Interference by Kindraa Mick-Kline-Kreese in the fighting between CSA and CSR on Circe causes CSA to declare the trial between CBS and CSA broken, and revokes Zellbringen, catching Spirit forces off guard. Blood Spirits lose nearly 2 Galaxies of troops. Hegira is requested, but not allowed.
Khan Schmitt rebukes SaKhan Kline and prepares to bring CSA's actions to the Grand Council.
February - Garrett Sainze elected ilKhan
4 March - New Grand Council meeting to elect new ilKhan
10 April - Blood Spirit Warriors are killed by Steel Viper Star Captain Dale Hoskins after objecting to him not declaring a proper Trial of Annihilation before killing Wolf Scientists in empty Wolf Blood chapels
May - Blood Spirits' 42nd Crimson Vanguard Cluster arrives on Dagda to lay claim to W-9 Complex. Three-way fighting between CW and CCC and CBS forces results in an explosion, destroying the Blood Spirit and Wolf forces
CBS' 66th Blood Hussars arrive on Eden, destroying the Wolf Forces on planet, losing a ProtoMech Star
Blood Spirit forces attack and fail to destroy Wolf forces on Tranquil
1 December - Blood Spirits vote in the affirmative to refute the Great Refusal
Blood Spirits vote to elect Khan Brett Andrews of the Steel Vipers to ilKhan
4 December 3071 - Star Captain Ross Boques duels Akule Wolf in Svoboda Zemylya, Strana Mechty
December - Adder enclave on Strana Mechty is assaulted by Blood Spirit forces, killing saKhan Dante Truscott
20 December - Blood Spirits' Scarlet Guards land on Paxon and declare a batchall for the Coyote (former Wolf) enclave. Blood Spirits push the Coyotes back, but stumble into a CDS civilian encampment, killing some of the civilians. CDS attacks the Blood Spirit forces, and the attack devolves into a three way. CBS destroys several CDS DropShips that are retreating, but loses to the Coyotes, leaving the Scarlet Guards with a Star of ProtoMechs.
3072
Early January - CBS Khan Karianna Schmitt arrives at Arcadia with Alpha Galaxy, CBS Stooping Hawk and CBS Rocinante to negotiate with the Ghost Bears for the Arcadia enclave. They are rebuffed, and fire a warning shot. In an attempt to prevent Ghost Bear ships from jumping out, the CBS Stooping Hawk movs close to the Alshain Sunset, a fully-loaded Star Lord. The Sunset refuses to stand down, and attempts to jump out. The Stooping Hawk destroys the Sunset. The Rocinante is swamped and severely damaged as the Ghost Bears launch everything. Khan Schmitt is critically wounded, her back broken.
Karianna Schmitt loses Khanship due to injuries, reduced to Star Colonel
Khan Boques and saKhan Constans Cluff in charge
Blood Spirits take advantage of the relative calm and move more civilians and material to Honor and Haven
Mid January - First open strike by the Society is on Ironhold
Blood Spirit holdings on Albion come under several attacks, but remain under Spirit control
End of February - spirit enclaves on Arcadia are cut off from York.
March - Spirit merchant caste vessel reports both enclaves on Arcadia are destroyed
Uknown - Blood Spirit Merchant convoy barely escapes an ambush at the Zenith point of Arcadia, losing 2 out of three vessels in their victory.
Late May - New Volga on Hallgate and its 4 million civilians are handed over to the Blood Spirits from the Snow Ravens
July-September - Dagdan brain fever spreads through the Homeworlds, targeting the Morales, Beckett and Eaker genetic lines and killing 8000 civilians on Homer in the city of Troy.
3 August 3072 - Star Adder fleet arrives and engages the Exsanguine and a recharge station. Star Adders leave the Exsanguine behind once its crippled.
Blood Spirits throw everything at the invading Naval force, incuding civilian ships. 3 Merchant Unions hit the Tehuantepec, destroying it.
6 August - Star Adders begin a 22 day bombardment of York, killing 90% of the world's industry and 75% of the population. Only the 66th Blood Hussars and the 181st Crimson Guards maintain enough unit cohesion to survive.
Late September/Early October - Blood Spirit forces seize 3 out of 4 Ice Hellion enclaves on Barcella in a series of wrestling matches. Fire mandrill attack the 79th Blood Hussars at the recently taken Reston. During the fighting, several storage tanks explode. Both sides blame the otherr, and the two groups violently fight each other. Blood Spirits win, but at the loss of a Trinary of troops.
Late October - Bandit Caste forces arrrive on Barcella, and over a week of fighting, manage to take all enclaves, other than the Steel Viper one, where a stalemate is achieved.
Late in year - Hellgate has fallen into turmoil with no Warrior Caste to rule the remaining civilians. The Society has taken over and attacks the Steel Vipers, who respond by orbitally bombarding the planet, leaving 50,000 alive. No mention of Blood Spirits.
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3073
Early 3073 - CBS redploys 4 of Omicron Galaxy's ProtoMech Clusters to Eden, overwhelming CSA and CHH enclaves.
Omicron moves on to Arcadia joining saKhan Cluff and the remnants of Omeega Galaxy. CBS forces find that none of the Clan holdings had any survivors, and most of the factories and warehouses were stripped of material. Civilians had been left to die of exposure and starvation, while the few survivors were found to be insane (perhaps from Society testing).
Late April - Omicron and Omega Galaxies arrive at Albion, and defeat the Cobras in a Star on Star duel to allow safe passage.
Omicron Galaxy drops ontop the Adder enclave of Indicass Beta, securing storage warehouses full of foodstuffs, parts and other resources, which they load onto the DropShips.
Omicron attacks Indicass Alpha. Star Adders use armed civilians in their defense, and booby trap the city, killing 7000 Adder civilians. Blood Spirit forces withdraw, and the Exsanguine orbitally bombard both Indicass Alpha and Indicass Beta.
Mid 3073 - Khan Boques and Alpha Galaxy arrive at Niles and land. Coyote forces on planet refuse to respond to batchalls. Galaxy Commander John Church is killed and the Khan is injured in a midnight assault by the Coyote forces. Blood Spirits seize Site Facility 3-C and the city of Raptis. Spirits secure an alliance with CHH and Kindraa Mattila-Carrol forces on planet and seize industrial facilities from the Coyotes. CHH and CFM forces are absorbed into CBS and added to Zeta Galaxy.
Late August - CDS Titanic and Swift Strike arrive at York to deliver supplies to the Blood Spirits, but are stopped by CSA. Half of the Titanic's DropShips make it to York.
October 3073 - Zeta Galaxy travels to Vinton, making contact with the lone surviving Shark facility. CBS renders aid and transport the survivors and Shark Merchant Factor Lorenzo to Haven. Lorenzo and Spirit Factor Yasia make a deal, with Lorenzo winning transportation to Albion.
3074
15 January 3074 - CSA Loremaster recommends orbital bombardment to kill any Blood Spirit lower caste isorla
Late 3074 - Blood Spirit Zeta Galazy arrives at Atrues, finding all Steel Vipers dead, several thousand live civilians and less thatn two Clusters of Kindraa Faraday-Tanaga froces. Blood Spirits absorb the Kindraa forces and by October had finished clearing out the enclaves.
Late September - CBS are bargaining for Horse and Scorpion holdings on Tokasha when the Steel Vipers arrive at and issue a Trial of Possession for the entire planet. CBS agrees and bids Omicron, Omega and Zeta Galaxies. Vipers bid 4 Galaxies (Alpha, Beta, Nu, ??) and give little honor and break Zellbringen at any offense, real or imagined. Khan Boques fights the Viper ilKhan in a duel and loses. Most Blood Spirit warriors choose death over becoming Steel Viper laborers.
3075
February - Blood Spirits (along with every other HW Clan) vote in Grand Council that the IS Clans are abjured and Bloodnamed are Tainted and subject to Trial of Reaving.
spirits provide evidence of Coyote involvement in the caste revolts and Dark Caste actions. CBS put forth motions to find some sort of resolution, including the Annhiliation of the entire scientist caste of Clan Coyote as well as some resolution about which warriors coluuded with the underground movements.
Blood spirits object to the measure to only abjure the Horses in the IS, rather than all Horses.
The Trials of Cleansing are done by the middle of April, while the Trial of Annhiliation was completed by 30 April.
29 July 3075 - Blood Spirits vote against the Trial of Reaving of the Steel Vipers
"2 months later" - CBS votes against CSA motion that the Viper Annihilation should be open to all Clans
30 October - Multi-Clan fleet arives at Circe
CBS loses nearly half their landing forces to ground battery fire.
Alpha Galaxy drops on one of the batteries, then moves north with CCS forces, before being overrun by the Viper's Beta Galaxy
Spirit forces catch Viper saKhan George Merver in the open and kill him.
Mid-December - Clan forces arrive at New Kent
CBS Beta Galaxy, comprised of 2 Clusters, lead the way to the ground assault, but ground batteries kill saKhan Schmitt and a large portion of 258th Crimson Guards.
CBS Khan Forrest Campbell leads Spirit and Lion forces to seize lightly-defended ground batteries.
3076
10 February 3076 - ilKhan declares the Trial of Annihilation of Clan Steel Viper complete.
Post Wars of Reaving
Bryce Schmitt elected to saKhan.
CBS decides to take what it can from its holdings in the Kerensky Cluster and withdraw to Colleen
Only the Spirit enclave on Strana Mechty remains in contact with the other Clans
3080 York becomes untenable
3082 - Stone Lion scout vessel arrives at Colleen's nadir point
Cloud Cobras Trial for 2 enclaves on Honor's southern continent
3083
clan Council extends ban on using the Boques, Campbell, Church and Johns Legacies
Cobras have 2 "bustling" colonies on Honor.
19 March - Several 9.0+ earthquakes hit Honor. Heavy volcanic activity and tidal waves damage most Clan holdings and detroy the two Cobra enclaves and the Spirit's largest city.
Fewer than 15,000 survive and are evacuated.
April - Stone Lion and Coyote forces arrive at Haven, trialing for most of the holdings.
End of June - 2 Spirit holdings remain, Kan Boques is dead.
CBS Exsanguine is destroyed by the Coyotes Spirit in the Sky
Coyotes and Stone Lions have trouble integrating Blood Spirit civilians.
August - Khan Schmitt attacks Coyote holdings using armed civilians. Stone Lions order the civilian populations to stand down, executing those civilians found with weapons.
Khan Koga calls for a Grand Council and cite evidence of Spirit's "unclanlike way of arming civilians."
Grand Council calls for a measure to Abjure the Spirits
Adders try to call for an Annihilation of the spirits, but fail, eventually calling for a Trial of Absorption. Adders win the right to absorb the Blood Spirits.
Blood Spirit enclave on Strana Mechty is wiped out; Adders execute those who survive.
spirit survivors and equipment on Honor are transported to Haven by the Cobras, including Beta Galaxy
5 October 3084 Adders arrive; Blood spirits have 3 Clusters of Warriors and around 5 full Clusters of armed civilians, Adders arrive with Gamma, Epsilon and Xi Galaxies.
Alpha Galaxy is wiped out.
Adders load up supplies and pull back
End of November - Adders begin to orbitally bombard Haven
Mid-December - All Spirit holdings on Haven are destroyed or burning or crippled.
Adder task force moves to Honor and continues their actions
Seventeenth Crimson Guards are wiped out.
CSA leaves Sovereign Right in the system to guard the system, which destroys some DropShips a month later
July 3085 - Honor has gone "dark" a few months ago, while Haven shows only minimal signs of life.
October 3085 - Adders target the side of Mount Schmitt near Glasgow and bury the Spirits genetic repository under rock and ice
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That's it. Went into a bit more detail at the end than I did the beginning, its been a long off and on again project.
And I just noticed I forgot to delete the wrong reference to the Exsanguine being destroyed...
Obviously some of the timing is questionable at times. Or pretty generic.
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That's OK. WoR was intentionally vague and contradictory. Nice timeline.
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Good stuff, Maelwys.
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Thanks.
I put the destruction of the Exsanguine at 3083 rather than the 3082 that the book explicitly states because the book says that the Exsanguine was destroyed by a specific Coyote WarShip, and they didn't attack until 3083, so that's why that's there.
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There ties with the Ravens weren't that bad so I could see the Spirits getting them to build a Nightlord for there Fleet. Expensive to maintain yes, but parked over there Capitol and they would have few unwanted visitors.
What could the spirits have bought warships with? Proto designs and protocols? Any night lords would have to a new build but what about the aegis? Were their cached ones to be had circa 3060
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The Blood Spirits resources for new built warships was tiny and better used to support there ground forces. And they traded away there fleet long before for old and second line mechs.
Instead they should have done what the Jaguars said over Huntress. A Reagan SDS in orbit and on the ground to intercept dropships and cover the jump points. That should have been well within there reach.
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The Blood Spirits resources for new built warships was tiny and better used to support there ground forces. And they traded away there fleet long before for old and second line mechs.
Instead they should have done what the Jaguars said over Huntress. A Reagan SDS in orbit and on the ground to intercept dropships and cover the jump points. That should have been well within there reach.
All true but what was also true is that the spirits naval commander blamed the absorption war failure on their small navy. Also in order to protect any new colonies and trade convoys they need a large navy when they ended their isolation. So how could they have expanded their fleet?
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All true but what was also true is that the spirits naval commander blamed the absorption war failure on their small navy. Also in order to protect any new colonies and trade convoys they need a large navy when they ended their isolation. So how could they have expanded their fleet?
Honestly they were hampered by the lack of warships available and there sticking with Kerensky's vision. But, this is the big one, they could have invested in Dropship CV's and used there jumpship fleet for a carrier force. This would have required a heavy investment in converting dropships to a CV configuration but also in getting more Aerospace pilots trained and more aerospace fighters deployed. And would have required that the ground forces play second fiddle for a while in getting those rescources.
The other option and not a good one would have been to send out techs to various battlefields and start salvaging badly damaged dropships and jumpships and maybe even take a look at quietly stealing mothballed warships belonging to other Clans.
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I always enjoyed the mandrill and spirit relationships but in some later source books phrases like “ the spirits expertly manipulated the mandrill kindraa” gave me pause. Were the spirts using the mandrills in bad faith?
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Not as such. I believe the Spirits usually acted in good faith to terms of a deal but were not adverse to taking advantage of a bad deal in there favor. And by that point the Mandrils were actually weaker than the Spirits.
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I wonder if we helped goad them into fights or arguments we were involved in as well, possibly in an attempt to rally support with peer pressure thrown in.
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I wonder if we helped goad them into fights or arguments we were involved in as well, possibly in an attempt to rally support with peer pressure thrown in.
I can see that
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"If we all stand together, we can knock out the Adders!"
Of course that may have several trials included.
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Dont forget the factionalism of the Mandrills allowed the Spirits to make deals with some Kindraa while freezing out others. Generally though the fact the Spirits needed goodwill kept things honorable and fair.
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So I have finally turned my sights on painting Blood Spirits. And what I'm working on is the last Alpha Galaxy Mech for my Trinary-a Blood Kite and the last five Protomechs of twenty five for my Tau Galaxy Protomechs Star. Basilisk to be exact. Figure about two weeks to finish them all and then on to something new. When finished this will be the second largest force I've ever painted for any canon group. The largest of course being my 1st FedSun Lancers.
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Does anyone know the color scheme for Beta Galaxy? Sarna and Camospecs are blank on the subject.
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Does anyone know the color scheme for Beta Galaxy? Sarna and Camospecs are blank on the subject.
Nothing cannon I believe I was also curious as I tend to like the various Beta Galaxies better than the alphas. They always seem to have more character to me.
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Yeah, it's a shame no one really updates Camospecs anymore. I would do so, but my ability are far below par in comparison to the artists who normally do so.
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The Blood Spirits resources for new built warships was tiny and better used to support there ground forces. And they traded away there fleet long before for old and second line mechs.
Instead they should have done what the Jaguars said over Huntress. A Reagan SDS in orbit and on the ground to intercept dropships and cover the jump points. That should have been well within there reach.
How could the spirits have dealt the adders a Case White level defeat and stayed within clan custom?
I mean they should expected the adder warship assisted reprisal against York from the moment the absorption war ended.
If they had been able to decisively defeat the first adder invasion force before it grounded perhaps it would have given them more room to recover and make allies.
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Honestly they just didnt have the rescources after the WoR. I always believed that they shouldn't have stopped with Honor and Haven but settled more worlds. Built up everywhere they could. And yes, abandonded York. It was a fixed targets and one the Adders always knew where it was. I could even see the Spirits allying themselves with the Scorpions or the Ravens and moving out of the Kerensky Cluster entirely. They couldnt win against the Adders and debatable against the Stone Lions. The next weakest Clan to the Spirits.
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Honestly they just didnt have the rescources after the WoR. I always believed that they shouldn't have stopped with Honor and Haven but settled more worlds. Built up everywhere they could. And yes, abandonded York. It was a fixed targets and one the Adders always knew where it was. I could even see the Spirits allying themselves with the Scorpions or the Ravens and moving out of the Kerensky Cluster entirely. They couldnt win against the Adders and debatable against the Stone Lions. The next weakest Clan to the Spirits.
All true but I was referring to the time after the burrock absorption and the WOR
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How could the spirits have dealt the adders a Case White level defeat and stayed within clan custom?
Case White’s defeat was made possible by Blakist deep agents and/or ComStar defectors who sabotaged the incoming ComGuard warships. Obviously not consistent with the rules of Clan warfare and trials. And probably impossible for the Spirits anyway, given their isolation and the general Clan disdain for intel.
The defeat of Task Force Vengeance, where the Blakists stopped the Dragoon assault on Mars using Dragau drones, is probably a better model for the Spirits. But that would require the Spirits to funnel their limited resources into some novel orbital defense, rather then protomechs and the like. Maybe dozens of small craft modified with large/fast fusion engines, thick armor/ECM/AMS, Booby Trap self-destruct devices, suicidal crews or basic drone equipment, and little else would do the trick.
At least once. The fundamental problem faced by the Spirits is how vastly outnumbered and outresourced they are. Even if the Spirits cripple the Adder warship fleet and a few Adder galaxies at the cost of some modified small craft, the Adders can just come back with jumpships and more galaxies.
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[quote author=Natasha Kerensky link=topic=61902.msg1549967#msg1549967
The fundamental problem faced by the Spirits is how vastly outnumbered and outresourced they are. Even if the Spirits cripple the Adder warship fleet and a few Adder galaxies at the cost of some modified small craft, the Adders can just come back with jumpships and more galaxies.
[/quote]
This is fact
Which is what made the plucky ( or crazy) spirits so compelling. They were so fundamentally outclassed in terms of resource from3060 on...
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With the canon resources and alliances they had in the 3060”s here are the only options I see to defeat an adder naval task force:
1) go all in on the kindraa mick kreese alliance and get their Potemkin with all the assault droppers and aero fighters they have to bolster York’s defense. The spirits have to offer very generous salvage and future political support.
2) request raven naval support to bolster York but I see that as a harder sell
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It's like rooting for the Belgians in any given World War. No matter what happens they can't stop the Germans or the French.
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It's like rooting for the Belgians in any given World War. No matter what happens they can't stop the Germans or the French.
Ha! I doubt they would like the comparison but that’s pretty spot on
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Honestly another option for the Spirits would have been to offer there services to one of the Inner Sphere Clans to garrison worlds. Or go along with a Clans that left later that they had good relations with like the Ravens or the Sharks. The option of relocating wholesale from the Homeworlds to the Inner Sphere should have been a option. But in the end Khan Schmitt made so many mistakes that any option was z bad one. I wonder if without her the Clan may even have been able to make peace with the Adders.
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Ok, bit of a update. Now painted up, fifteen Blood Guard Keshik Mechs with five tanks. Also fifteen Alpha Galaxy mechs painted up as well. And the last project I have twenty five Protomechs in Tau Galaxy Colors with two more mechs painted up and two more just getting started. The plan for Tau is a Star of Proto's, a combat star of Battlemechs, and a mixed scout star I need to plan.
When finished it will be the largest 'force' I will have done in years.
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Ok, bit of a update. Now painted up, fifteen Blood Guard Keshik Mechs with five tanks. Also fifteen Alpha Galaxy mechs painted up as well. And the last project I have twenty five Protomechs in Tau Galaxy Colors with two more mechs painted up and two more just getting started. The plan for Tau is a Star of Proto's, a combat star of Battlemechs, and a mixed scout star I need to plan.
When finished it will be the largest 'force' I will have done in years.
:thumbsup:
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Why not have the Spirits build up an armada of Aquarius and Lyonesse-class escorts with Clan tech? They have the spare pilots. Fully decked out, they are still quite cheap, have armor matching some dropships, match the speed of heavy to medium fighters, and have the ability to mount enough weapons to damage a warship en masse. I worked out the upgrade of the 200-ton on HM Aero.
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Why not have the Spirits build up an armada of Aquarius and Lyonesse-class escorts with Clan tech? They have the spare pilots. Fully decked out, they are still quite cheap, have armor matching some dropships, match the speed of heavy to medium fighters, and have the ability to mount enough weapons to damage a warship en masse. I worked out the upgrade of the 200-ton on HM Aero.
They did have neither the resources to build nor the imagination to do this.
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They did have neither the resources to build nor the imagination to do this.
Also a serious case of 'Not developed here' and 'Inner Sphere Dezgra Design'.
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Also a serious case of 'Not developed here' and 'Inner Sphere Dezgra Design'.
I feel like BS spent a lot of their early time trying to get the Clans to act as one big team so they all could win. Other clans said "You Crazy, Spirits" and took advantage of or simply ignored them.
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That is true. But things were set up that way. The Spirits had no chance. They were the only clan that stressed cooperation over competition. The writers knew what they were doing. The Blood Spirits were set up to fail by Kerensky.
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That is true. But things were set up that way. The Spirits had no chance. They were the only clan that stressed cooperation over competition. The writers knew what they were doing. The Blood Spirits were set up to fail by Kerensky.
And now we are calling heresy on Kerensky! ... no wonder we're insane.
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Haha... I forgot. There is one other Clan that stressed cooperation. And the Blood Spirits ironically hate them for encompassing their doom.
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Haha... I forgot. There is one other Clan that stressed cooperation. And the Blood Spirits ironically hate them for encompassing their doom.
Hell's Horses?
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That is true. But things were set up that way. The Spirits had no chance. They were the only clan that stressed cooperation over competition. The writers knew what they were doing. The Blood Spirits were set up to fail by Kerensky.
I am curious about this kerensky set them up to fail notion. While it is cannon or cannonish that he did that to the wolverines why would he do so with the other clans? To seed his society with future bogeymen?
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Hell's Horses?
Them too. The Horses drive for cooperation is infectious.
But they pick and choose who they will cooperate with.
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I am curious about this kerensky set them up to fail notion. While it is cannon or cannonish that he did that to the wolverines why would he do so with the other clans? To seed his society with future bogeymen?
When the Clans were first getting set up by Kerensky, Khan Schmitt ran her vision of the Blood Spirits and Clan society by Nicky and he was fine with it.
But later, as "Clan history" moved along, Nicky rebuked her and the Spirits in the Grand Council for being unClanlike.
I think the Blood Spirits were originally being set up for failure by Nicky K himself. He needed an example of how the Clans were meant work, and the Blood Spirits were going to be it.
Then unforseen, the Wolverine Crisis happened and the Clans got to witness an Annihilation. Kerensky had his example, so he only needed to rebuke the Blood Spirits, instead of ordering their Annihilation or Absorption.. He didn't want his still fledgling clans to weaken themselves too much.
It's just my observation and opinions will vary..
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Them too. The Horses drive for cooperation is infectious.
One of the reasons I am a big fan. They seem to be a pretty cool bunch
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I do not think he set them up to fail but as one of the Clsns that supported the Wolverines they set themselves up as targets for the other Clans that didnt get to fight the Wolverines and gain there assets for themselves. Sadly they failed to make a strong early defence against that early predations by the other Clans and soon became a early target for the Burrocks who kept there strength low.
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I just pick my point because Nicky was at first for them, then later was not them.
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I just pick my point because Nicky was at first for them, then later was not them.
Think that had more to do with pressure from the more powerful Clans. Nicky's entire philosophy was 'to the strongest' after all and if the Spirits were weak they must be doing something wrong.
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I am curious about this kerensky set them up to fail notion. While it is cannon or cannonish that he did that to the wolverines why would he do so with the other clans?
I don't he intentionally set them up to fail, he just didn't see how the constant competitive nature of the Clans would invalidate much of the Spirits' raison d'etre.
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It just occurred to me that it's interesting that the closest thing the Spirits had to an ally was Clan Fire Mandrill, who were kinda their philosophical opposites, not to mention a microcosm of the Clans as a whole.
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Irony had a sinister love for the Blood Spirits.
The Clan the Spirits were philosophically most alike (the Adders) became their arch enemy and eventually destroyed the Blood Spirits.
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Irony had a sinister love for the Blood Spirits.
The Clan the Spirits were philosophically most alike (the Adders) became their arch enemy and eventually destroyed the Blood Spirits.
Any chance of mending fences after the Burrock absorption died any time Karianna Karianna Schmidt walked into a room. I blame her entirely for the Spirits bad fortune after that.
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It was not only Khan Schmitt. Other memberass of the Spirit leadership werde the Same. Having external adverseries keep your people busy and certain questions (as to competence and performance) will not be asked.
I have the hope that the Adders might reactivate some of the Spirit bloodlines.
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I always wondered why the Spirits did not wait in force at the individual Burrock absorption sites and trial for parts of the Burrocks instead of blundering into the two clans. If they had done so, I would think they could have made minor gains benefitting both the Adders and the Spirits. With fewer Burrock troops to assimilate, the Adder absorption would have been easier and more complete. The Spirits might have even been able to garner more fleet units and enclaves to help support them.
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I always wondered why the Spirits did not wait in force at the individual Burrock absorption sites and trial for parts of the Burrocks instead of blundering into the two clans. If they had done so, I would think they could have made minor gains benefitting both the Adders and the Spirits. With fewer Burrock troops to assimilate, the Adder absorption would have been easier and more complete. The Spirits might have even been able to garner more fleet units and enclaves to help support them.
Because it's a Clan Council sanctioned Trial. The Spirits could have trialed for Burrock assets afterwords but not during. The fact that the Spirits interfered was considered flouting tradition heavily and was dishonorable. The Burrocks theoretically could have actually won the Trial of Absorbtion by defeating the Adders and thus make there actions right by force of arms.
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We could have done a many other simple strategic (tactical?) changes instead of running screaming into the middle of their football game.
Oh, well.
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We could have done a many other simple strategic (tactical?) changes instead of running screaming into the middle of their football game.
In this it was a very Hellion-like action.
Hoever, other, later actions did show that the Spirits could not play a Great Game.
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In this it was a very Hellion-like action.
Hoever, other, later actions did show that the Spirits could not play a Great Game.
Ok, lets all get off of the 'we failed at the game of thrones!' theme here. lol
Not sure what else we'd talk about ... oooh who's got some good mini's or alt-universe going on?
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Because it's a Clan Council sanctioned Trial. The Spirits could have trialed for Burrock assets afterwords but not during. The fact that the Spirits interfered was considered flouting tradition heavily and was dishonorable. The Burrocks theoretically could have actually won the Trial of Absorption by defeating the Adders and thus make there actions right by force of arms.
I do not think I expressed myself properly. My thoughts were for the Spirits to wait until the trial was over and then trial for some of the Burrock's holdings and/or troops. The Adders probably did not want the bulk of the Burrock warriors; tainted as they were by the past. The Adders would want their resources. The Spirits, properly led, could have trialed for parts of former Buurock holdings and maybe troops. Doing so might have benefitted the Adders, as well as giving the Spirits their revenge.
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agreed,
IF we had waited and trialed against former Burrock units we could have helped the Adders get rid of their new problem children. Also, we may have stymied or redirected the Society as the Adders would have to properly (or more so than they did) garrison the Tanite worlds ... denying the Society a major strongpoint.
Oh, and not making it a point of honor to be the vanguard of quite a few battles ... "Hey we're the total underdogs, Can we go first?"
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But waiting until the Burrocks were absorbed sort of defeats the point, at that point they are gone. They didn't interrupt the Trial of Absorption to get stuff, they did so for honor and pride.
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But waiting until the Burrocks were absorbed sort of defeats the point, at that point they are gone. They didn't interrupt the Trial of Absorption to get stuff, they did so for honor and pride.
Exactly! Pride before the fall.
Now back to my AU Blood Spirit pirate campaign. I wonder how easy it is to steal the Mckennas Pride?
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Exactly! Pride before the fall.
Now back to my AU Blood Spirit pirate campaign. I wonder how easy it is to steal the Mckennas Pride?
For who? A force of Clan warriors could probably board without much fuss and take it, but the fallout would be brutal. No chance they'd let dark caste folks anywhere near it.
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For who? A force of Clan warriors could probably board without much fuss and take it, but the fallout would be brutal. No chance they'd let dark caste folks anywhere near it.
Honestly I was thinking of a bunch of warriors and techs killing/replacing and the caretaker crew before a switch over then try to pass themselves off as a new caretaker crew. I know each Clan swaps crew out every month I think? Rather than trying to steal it by force they just replace the crew as the next one then just jump the ship when the old crew us clear.
It was that or try to salvage the Prinz Eugen.
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It was that or try to salage the Prinz Eugen.
Probably be easier to build a whole new warship.
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Ok, lets all get off of the 'we failed at the game of thrones!' theme here. lol
Not sure what else we'd talk about ... oooh who's got some good mini's or alt-universe going on?
Here's two alt-universe ideas for everyone to discuss:
1. Following the Annihilation of the Not Named Clan, Clan Blood Spirit expects to be next since the Khans spoke up for the Not Named Clan. Preparations are immediately begun to pack up the entire Clan and depart Clan Space.
2. Karianna Schmitt is killed in 3059.
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Here's two alt-universe ideas for everyone to discuss:
1. Following the Annihilation of the Not Named Clan, Clan Blood Spirit expects to be next since the Khans spoke up for the Not Named Clan. Preparations are immediately begun to pack up the entire Clan and depart Clan Space.
2. Karianna Schmitt is killed in 3059.
hmmm ... would love to comment, my 10 year old PITA, I mean lovely daughter is bugging me though. Plus, just got home from school and trying to prep dinner ... probably not best at making coherent statements.
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Here's two alt-universe ideas for everyone to discuss:
1. Following the Annihilation of the Not Named Clan, Clan Blood Spirit expects to be next since the Khans spoke up for the Not Named Clan. Preparations are immediately begun to pack up the entire Clan and depart Clan Space.
Such an action probably triggers their Annihilation. Considering how intertwined the Clans were in the early years, hiding such an action would probably be impossible (especially considering the Clans would be on the lookout for it after the Wolverines tried to pull it off).
2. Karianna Schmitt is killed in 3059.
This is an interesting one. Things do seem to get better for the Blood Spirits during the Wars of Reaving when someone else is in charge. You might get a little restraint and some craftiness rather than the blunt force that is their Khan.
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Here's two alt-universe ideas for everyone to discuss:
1. Following the Annihilation of the Not Named Clan, Clan Blood Spirit expects to be next since the Khans spoke up for the Not Named Clan. Preparations are immediately begun to pack up the entire Clan and depart Clan Space.
2. Karianna Schmitt is killed in 3059.
1. Depends on what resources the Clan has at this point, but the Wolverines had (not nearly enough) at least time to prepare/a plan in motion for when things turned against them per BoI. So it'd either go better or much, much worse, for the Spirits depending. Yeah, the other Clans (and Nicky K) would be more on alert for dissension, but also, who would expect a second Clan to go rogue after the Annihilation? Of course, wait a couple years for Nicky to die during the Widowmaker Trial and maybe your escape would be easier...
2. So much this. Much as I love Khan Schmitt as a character, CBS may have been better off had she bought it earlier in the storyline. Of course, the Spirits were never meant to succeed as a Clan long term (barring heavy Deus Ex writing, they were destined to be a footnote in Clan history since FM: CC, though I'll always appreciate that WoR let them survive for that long) but Troy Boques and Constans Cluff did their best to keep the ship afloat.
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Honestly the smartest thing the Spirits did was send out survey teams to find new colony's. The only problem was they stopped with the Colleen System. A good AU storyline would be the Spirits sending out and finding other scattered worlds and using those as. Base of operations to rebuild. Rather than being one or two systems to find and crack thereceould be several outposts in the deep periphery to settle and build up.
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Well, they were hampered by limited resources. Plus, get spread out too much and the likelihood of getting discovered goes up and then everyone's looking for you.
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1. Depends on what resources the Clan has at this point, but the Wolverines had (not nearly enough) at least time to prepare/a plan in motion for when things turned against them per BoI. So it'd either go better or much, much worse, for the Spirits depending. Yeah, the other Clans (and Nicky K) would be more on alert for dissension, but also, who would expect a second Clan to go rogue after the Annihilation? Of course, wait a couple years for Nicky to die during the Widowmaker Trial and maybe your escape would be easier...
2. So much this. Much as I love Khan Schmitt as a character, CBS may have been better off had she bought it earlier in the storyline. Of course, the Spirits were never meant to succeed as a Clan long term (barring heavy Deus Ex writing, they were destined to be a footnote in Clan history since FM: CC, though I'll always appreciate that WoR let them survive for that long) but Troy Boques and Constans Cluff did their best to keep the ship afloat.
While khan Schmidt was super problematic she was the product of hundreds of years of her clans xenophobic propaganda.
It was the lore master of the clan which convinced her to interfere against the burrocks
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Well, they were hampered by limited resources. Plus, get spread out too much and the likelihood of getting discovered goes up and then everyone's looking for you.
One of the reasons I like the idea of the Spirits pushing outwards is that the Clans wouldnt be looking to far from the Homeworlds. Colleen was too close in the grand scheme of things.
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One of the reasons I like the idea of the Spirits pushing outwards is that the Clans wouldnt be looking to far from the Homeworlds. Colleen was too close in the grand scheme of things.
... and for many decades they have been working with a missing Wolverine group. Strained relations at first, but the need for survival and secrecy buried the hatchet for many issues. Perhaps, included is also Widowmaker remains. As the Invasion and eventually the Wars of Reaving began to spark, other clan enclaves and groups may have secreted away.
There could be representatives from almost every clan. There would have to be some sort of serious integration process, that is a lot of history and hate to put together.
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... and for many decades they have been working with a missing Wolverine group. Strained relations at first, but the need for survival and secrecy buried the hatchet for many issues. Perhaps, included is also Widowmaker remains. As the Invasion and eventually the Wars of Reaving began to spark, other clan enclaves and groups may have secreted away.
There could be representatives from almost every clan. There would have to be some sort of serious integration process, that is a lot of history and hate to put together.
Well that's one AU. I guess. Then again you can easily say all those destroyed Clans do exist in the form of the Bandit Caste.
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Well that's one AU. I guess. Then again you can easily say all those destroyed Clans do exist in the form of the Bandit Caste.
I was just going off willy nilly :P
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I was just going off willy nilly :P
Hey its all good!
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I now lookforward to a Blood Spirit Challenge Coin for the collection.
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I now lookforward to a Blood Spirit Challenge Coin for the collection.
Same! ... although I went rest of Swag as Mongoose, something about the early dead clans always kept my attention.
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Same! ... although I went rest of Swag as Mongoose, something about the early dead clans always kept my attention.
It was a close thing as I almost got the FedSuns coins and the Wolverine.
So I compromised and got a Wolverine Patch instead.
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i have a question if clan blood spirit had a few forward thinking Khan's in there early history like boques or cliss may be church . I think the clan would not only survive but thrive with a larger military force and a merchant caste that was more liberal like clan sea fox .The possiblilities would be endless
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i have a question if clan blood spirit had a few forward thinking Khan's in there early history like boques or cliss may be church . I think the clan would not only survive but thrive with a larger military force and a merchant caste that was more liberal like clan sea fox .The possiblilities would be endless
Heck if they had stayed out of the absorption war they would have been primed to take advantage during the Harvest Wars
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And think of the larger Burrock headache the Adders would have inherited.
That could have impacted the Burrock rebirth and the Society's rise as well.
Now there's a divergent point in clan history to mull over.
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I have a bit of a thread on that https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=64879.0
Would love your input
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The best 'What if' to think on is if the Blood Spirits had after the Fall of Huntress and the Clan defeat by the reborn SLDF had chosen rather than to sulk but look towards a invading Clan to offer there service to as a garrison force in the Inner Sphere to free up another Clans forces. The Bears wouldnt need to but I could see the Wolves using the Spirits to garrison the Hade Falcon border or the Periphery holdings.
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Storm lion i think that is very good 1 that i didn't think seyla
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It would be a great way to rotate their forces around and get a lot of experience and self-initiative, something I believe we were sorely short on.
If the Invading clans actually held trials to invite home clans to occupy certain worlds ... man that'd put steam in the Vipers pots. Wars of Reaving may be more of crazy civil war rather than some bat-shit crazy crusade against 'taint'.
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Heck if they had stayed out of the absorption war they would have been primed to take advantage during the Harvest Wars
Post abjured nova cats would have been an ideal target for the zealous and ( above) full strength spirits. What would have been a good target for the spirits to take abs hold?
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I have to say, the Blood Spirits are in my opinion the first clue the writers really gave to the idea that clan philosophy was flawed from the get go. The way the other clans, in particular the Burrocks, treated a clan that was openly fostering unity among the clans was ridiculously. I don't know... "bully-like". It seems odd that at any point in time a strong, teamwork oriented clan, say the Star Adders, could have joined forces with the Blood Spirits to make the point the clans are stronger when working together. Even the Burrock absorbtion was a perfect opportunity to do this.
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The best 'What if' to think on is if the Blood Spirits had after the Fall of Huntress and the Clan defeat by the reborn SLDF had chosen rather than to sulk but look towards a invading Clan to offer there service to as a garrison force in the Inner Sphere to free up another Clans forces. The Bears wouldnt need to but I could see the Wolves using the Spirits to garrison the Hade Falcon border or the Periphery holdings.
Also if the imperio was always going to happen I would have rather it be helmed by the spirits
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Would have liked to see an independent Colleen and Schmidt, but noooo Coyotes and Lions had to get all whiny.
And Adders were way to lazy (possibly did some simple math too).
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... and for many decades they have been working with a missing Wolverine group. Strained relations at first, but the need for survival and secrecy buried the hatchet for many issues. Perhaps, included is also Widowmaker remains. As the Invasion and eventually the Wars of Reaving began to spark, other clan enclaves and groups may have secreted away.
There could be representatives from almost every clan. There would have to be some sort of serious integration process, that is a lot of history and hate to put together.
By the by, I'm totally blaming this on you. (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=67406.60)
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Also if the imperio was always going to happen I would have rather it be helmed by the spirits
A Good 'What if' is if the Blood Spurits had remnants that retreated under the protection of the Imperio and essentially became a Client Merc Power under there protection. Gives the Imperio more forces while also allowing the Blood Spirits to survive. The other option is the Blood Spirits have joined the Green Ghosts which gas been hinted at already and the Green Ghosts are in fact faction of the Goliath Scorpions.
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A Good 'What if' is if the Blood Spurits had remnants that retreated under the protection of the Imperio and essentially became a Client Merc Power under there protection. Gives the Imperio more forces while also allowing the Blood Spirits to survive. The other option is the Blood Spirits have joined the Green Ghosts which gas been hinted at already and the Green Ghosts are in fact faction of the Goliath Scorpions.
Or even have Fox-Sharks (or is it Shark-Foxes?) get a solid smuggling ring out of their new systems. Have a full unit of ex-pat BS to take a head or two of the Adders.
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Or even have Fox-Sharks (or is it Shark-Foxes?) get a solid smuggling ring out of their new systems. Have a full unit of ex-pat BS to take a head or two of the Adders.
In cannon was the entirety of the spirit touman on colleen and haven?
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I believe so
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If they needed to arm the civilian castes I would have to say yes.
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also I do not think they simply killed everyone, the survivors just have no ability to produce any type of space flight. Almost a 'back to the Stone Age' scenario
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Fox-Sharks (or is it Shark-Foxes?)
Its Shark Foxes, no hyphen. :thumbsup:
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Its Shark Foxes, no hyphen. :thumbsup:
Who cares! just sneak in and pick us up off these rocks!
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Who cares! just sneak in and pick us up off these rocks!
We should have done that. The more Clans, the merrier!
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If anything, I think it's more likely that the Blood Spirits didn't quite put all their eggs in one basket (ie why not a remote outpost or colony) and/or there were various units/merchant case/etc that weren't in the system when this all went down. The writing was on the wall for a very long time that the Adders were likely going to eventually wipe them out and that there was nothing the Spirits could do to halt it really. Even the retreat to Colleen was little more than some time bought to the unstoppable Adder menace. The Spirits had been attacked & bled by the other Clans for a very long time and most of their "allies" were gone or had left.
Of course, Battletech is full of people/governments/etc that ignore the obvious for narrative reasons, but the Spirits should have been able to forsee a potential annihilation - or the least that they'd lose all their assets (which happened before the Adders' "absorption" to some extent anyways). As such, it's logical that they had a plan B - even if it was potentially a very weak plan B. They just had to sell their destruction and it had to be common knowledge that they'd never be able to escape with the bulk of the Clan.
The Jaguars, Nova Cats, Clan (Jade) Wolf, Wolverines, etc are all examples of Clans that should be gone surviving. The only ones to truly stay dead might be Mongoose, Widowmaker, and (maybe) Burrock. But even Burrock had their own return - and could even still exist. It just depends on what Catalyst wants to do with them. There's certainly a ton of plot hooks out there in the Clan homeworlds.
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There is a few small possibilitys of Blood Spirit Remnants beside the hint we see in one Dark Age novel. The afore mentioned Green Ghosts sporting Blood Spirit markings come to mind but there was one other from WoR that always made me think. One was that the Adders mantain patrols over Blood Spirit worlds and even shot down escaping dropships that were trying to escape...to where exactly? I think there were other survivors on jumpships awaiting those dropships, ones the Adders failed to kill.
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I have an option 2 for the Blood Spirit's during the formation of Wolf's Dragoon's the Blood Spirits were able to send a offsoldiers --- both trueborn and freebirth to assist them in there mission and secondary mission to look for a possible area to relocate after the possible invasion of the Inner sphere.
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The Tortuga Dominions seem like a good spot for the Blood Spirits to relocate to, at least location wise. Resources could be another issue.
The Marian Hegemony could be an interesting idea also.
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The most elite unit of the spirt touman was the blood guard which was a whole cluster! Of assault or heavy mechs! With a unit that big do we know if any binary or trinaries were rotated out to assist in other campaigns?
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The most elite unit of the spirt touman was the blood guard which was a whole cluster! Of assault or heavy mechs! With a unit that big do we know if any binary or trinaries were rotated out to assist in other campaigns?
The Blood Guard Keshik actually disappears from the record. There not reported actually destroyed so I always used that as another possibility the Clan survived in some form. On another 'Hidden Colony'.
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The Blood Guard Keshik actually disappears from the record. There not reported actually destroyed so I always used that as another possibility the Clan survived in some form. On another 'Hidden Colony'.
I wish I could believe that but I am inclined to think they died with khan Schmidt when she was shot out of the sky.
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I wish I could believe that but I am inclined to think they died with khan Schmidt when she was shot out of the sky.
Too early in the WoR I think. They would have been quickly rebuilt and if Khan Schmidt survived so would many of the warriors as well and many of the Mechs. About the only point I could see them being destroyed is during the Steel Viper Annihilation but you would think it would get a note saying it was destroyed during that assault.
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Wasn't it destroyed on Haven with the rest of the last vestiges of the Spirits? I know it was not specifically said, but that is where I would think it would be destroyed. In combat, or bombarded from orbit.
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I hope the Adders 'get theirs' too :smirk:
The face of the Clans has been altered considerably a few times already, one more big one!
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The best 'What if' to think on is if the Blood Spirits had after the Fall of Huntress and the Clan defeat by the reborn SLDF had chosen rather than to sulk but look towards a invading Clan to offer there service to as a garrison force in the Inner Sphere to free up another Clans forces. The Bears wouldnt need to but I could see the Wolves using the Spirits to garrison the Hade Falcon border or the Periphery holdings.
I have thought about this recently but in a slightly different way. On the old HeavyMetal forums a poster that went by Shades of Grey played in a group that had the Star Adders and Hell's Horses ally and invade the Wolf Clan Occupation Zone in 3068 (( don't believe the Jihad happened in this particular universe). The two Clans defeated the Wolves and split their occupation zone, annihilating the Crusader Wolves pretty much in the process. The Adders were on the Falcon side and the Horses were on the Bears side of the zone. The Free Rasalhague Republic even managed to recover a few worlds in the process and the Wolves ended up reunited but much weakened.
Here is where my AU idea on this AU comes in. The Star Adders still come into possession of the information about Clan Burrock but instead of going to the Grand Council with it they bring it to the Spirits and allow them to bring it before the Grand Council in exchange for the use of Blood Spirit troops at a later date. The Burrocks still get annihilated and you could say the Spirits are setup the same way as they were in Field Manual Crusader Clans, minus the enmity for Clan Star Adder. The Star Adders/Hell's Horses go to war against the Wolves and the Star Adders call on the deal they made with the Blood Spirits to use their troops in the now Star Adder Occupation Zone as garrison troops until the Adders get settled in and no longer need the Spirit troops. While an agreement is is place that the Spirits are not allowed to take any Star Adder worlds, there is nothing in the agreement that says the Spirits cannot take away any Falcon worlds as long as they do not lose any Star Adder worlds in the process.
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Adders passing info to theSpirits? I like it.
Promise of troops, possibly also having Adder troops have right to trial to be included in absorption/annihilation. They can foster a low level feud later as I am sure there would be some issue to happen. Toss in a side salad of Society affecting Adders more than Spirits.
[edit: common fallacy of not reading my posts out-loud before I 'save']
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Adders passing info Spirits? I like it.
Promise of troops, possibly also having Adder troops have right to trial to be included in absorption/annihilation. They can foster a low level feud later as I am sure there would be some issue to happen. Toss in a side salad of Society affecting Adders more than Spirits.
That is good stuff! I have always thought the spirits would have been great as a reserve clan/spear carrier for another clan such as the ravens or sharks
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Adders passing info to theSpirits? I like it.
Promise of troops, possibly also having Adder troops have right to trial to be included in absorption/annihilation. They can foster a low level feud later as I am sure there would be some issue to happen. Toss in a side salad of Society affecting Adders more than Spirits.
[edit: common fallacy of not reading my posts out-loud before I 'save']
I am sure the Adders would want to participate and I am also sure one side or the other would feel they didn't get their "proper share" of the Burrock holdings, especially the warriors that would not want to serve Clan Blood Spirit and do everything they can to be absorbed by the Adders. That explains the Burrock warriors listed as part of Clan Star Adder in FM: CC.
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Still need an angle to rip at the Adder's underbelly ... Mabye some Burrocks go WidowMaker (nuke) on them, trying to blame BS but it doesn't quite have the same effect.
WoR goes into effect: Adders not so strong as they used to be; Spirits make up that lost strength, Vipers manage to survive-ish the way many Coyotes made it through the Society (finding a way to survive in the end/break from main clan).
Mandrills get absorbed/accepted into differing clans.
Adders hold grudge (equally reciprocated) as they blame Spirits for 'dragging' them in to the Burrock fight.
Horses still leave, surviving council gives Stone Lions a chance (vs Adder Kahn).
lots of crazy ideas floating around here!
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Is anyone else planning to use either the Lupus or the Woodsman in their Blood Spirit units? The Lupus would fit well with the standard engine and the Woodsman also fits pretty well, even though it has fixed MASC.
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Still need an angle to rip at the Adder's underbelly ... Mabye some Burrocks go WidowMaker (nuke) on them, trying to blame BS but it doesn't quite have the same effect.
WoR goes into effect: Adders not so strong as they used to be; Spirits make up that lost strength, Vipers manage to survive-ish the way many Coyotes made it through the Society (finding a way to survive in the end/break from main clan).
Mandrills get absorbed/accepted into differing clans.
Adders hold grudge (equally reciprocated) as they blame Spirits for 'dragging' them in to the Burrock fight.
Horses still leave, surviving council gives Stone Lions a chance (vs Adder Kahn).
lots of crazy ideas floating around here!
I like it.
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Is anyone else planning to use either the Lupus or the Woodsman in their Blood Spirit units? The Lupus would fit well with the standard engine and the Woodsman also fits pretty well, even though it has fixed MASC.
Yes and yes. These are the type of old school mechs I have in my units
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I've been using the Woodsmen in my Alpha Galaxy for years.
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I've been using the Woodsmen in my Alpha Galaxy for years.
Any Picts you can share?
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Any Picts you can share?
Sure, give me a bit.
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Best I can do. I have not a clue anymore how to link pics anymore. xp
https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/116572289_2825584887687068_1156486619837118117_o.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=b9115d&_nc_ohc=vCJhzcDDMasAX-exJQJ&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=256ebdc31c762f562c9d01270b0f3679&oe=5F57F3A2 (https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/116572289_2825584887687068_1156486619837118117_o.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=b9115d&_nc_ohc=vCJhzcDDMasAX-exJQJ&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=256ebdc31c762f562c9d01270b0f3679&oe=5F57F3A2)
https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/116886410_2825584864353737_7248075190005973858_o.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=b9115d&_nc_ohc=gvYWYvg6MykAX_PwSRS&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=28cb3f40357716b7f4487f3ce33b644c&oe=5F56F3DE (https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/116886410_2825584864353737_7248075190005973858_o.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=b9115d&_nc_ohc=gvYWYvg6MykAX_PwSRS&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=28cb3f40357716b7f4487f3ce33b644c&oe=5F56F3DE)
https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/117408104_2825584824353741_6815440343298786242_o.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=b9115d&_nc_ohc=fycdkjoqvyUAX9hrXVH&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=4029b19b4145a9deee8a6e4fdf8ac505&oe=5F5A16D3 (https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/117408104_2825584824353741_6815440343298786242_o.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=b9115d&_nc_ohc=fycdkjoqvyUAX9hrXVH&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=4029b19b4145a9deee8a6e4fdf8ac505&oe=5F5A16D3)
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Best I can do. I have not a clue anymore how to link pics anymore. xp
https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/116572289_2825584887687068_1156486619837118117_o.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=b9115d&_nc_ohc=vCJhzcDDMasAX-exJQJ&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=256ebdc31c762f562c9d01270b0f3679&oe=5F57F3A2 (https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/116572289_2825584887687068_1156486619837118117_o.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=b9115d&_nc_ohc=vCJhzcDDMasAX-exJQJ&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=256ebdc31c762f562c9d01270b0f3679&oe=5F57F3A2)
https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/116886410_2825584864353737_7248075190005973858_o.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=b9115d&_nc_ohc=gvYWYvg6MykAX_PwSRS&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=28cb3f40357716b7f4487f3ce33b644c&oe=5F56F3DE (https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/116886410_2825584864353737_7248075190005973858_o.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=b9115d&_nc_ohc=gvYWYvg6MykAX_PwSRS&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=28cb3f40357716b7f4487f3ce33b644c&oe=5F56F3DE)
https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/117408104_2825584824353741_6815440343298786242_o.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=b9115d&_nc_ohc=fycdkjoqvyUAX9hrXVH&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=4029b19b4145a9deee8a6e4fdf8ac505&oe=5F5A16D3 (https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/117408104_2825584824353741_6815440343298786242_o.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=b9115d&_nc_ohc=fycdkjoqvyUAX9hrXVH&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=4029b19b4145a9deee8a6e4fdf8ac505&oe=5F5A16D3)
It worked! And he is rolling with a good crew
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It worked! And he is rolling with a good crew
I really like running my Blood Spirits as the 'scraping the barrels' with only a single front line Mech with the rest of the Star using IIc or second line Battlemechs. If I lose, well I had second line gear. If I win, my opponent lost to second line gear.
And I honestly bet the Woodsman soldiered on in the Blood Spirits forces far longer than they did in any other Clan.
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+1 to nice looking crew!
And Woodsman makes a fine BS mech. I could imagine the Wolves even selling-trialing off extras to the Spirits -- nah, they'd probably make their own Brian cache's for emergencies (I would).
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Thanks for a great reminder why CBS Alpha Galaxy has to have one of the best-looking schemes in all of BattleTech! Aside from the Smoke Jaguars of course.
I really like running my Blood Spirits as the 'scraping the barrels' with only a single front line Mech with the rest of the Star using IIc or second line Battlemechs. If I lose, well I had second line gear. If I win, my opponent lost to second line gear.
And I honestly bet the Woodsman soldiered on in the Blood Spirits forces far longer than they did in any other Clan.
Uh, I count four OmniMechs in that Star...? Or do you mean you ordinarily go for a 1:4 ratio of Omnis to BattleMechs?
And I would agree wholeheartedly on the Woodsman, I wouldn't take that bet with my worst enemy's money. :fine_print:
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Old omnimechs are fair game imo
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Thanks for a great reminder why CBS Alpha Galaxy has to have one of the best-looking schemes in all of BattleTech! Aside from the Smoke Jaguars of course.
Uh, I count four OmniMechs in that Star...? Or do you mean you ordinarily go for a 1:4 ratio of Omnis to BattleMechs?
And I would agree wholeheartedly on the Woodsman, I wouldn't take that bet with my worst enemy's money. :fine_print:
None of those are what any Clan would use for a front line star. No major Omni's at least. Yes the Woodsman is a Omni. A old one no one else uses. The Crossbow is a very unliked design that few warriors would willingly pilot. The Grendel was just what I had laying around. I've used a lot of Second line mechs for other Stars! Stopping Hawk because damn, I just needed a Stooping Hawk! I have a full Trinary of Alpha Galaxy and a Full Trinary of Bloodguard Keshik and a Binary of Tau Galaxy with one Star made up of Proto's. I thought I had another Star of Proto's but they have been lost somewhere.
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I really like running my Blood Spirits as the 'scraping the barrels' with only a single front line Mech with the rest of the Star using IIc or second line Battlemechs. If I lose, well I had second line gear. If I win, my opponent lost to second line gear.
And I honestly bet the Woodsman soldiered on in the Blood Spirits forces far longer than they did in any other Clan.
Once we get TRO golden century I hope we get more woodsman ( what an odd name!) variants as I love that mech. From the little we know about it, it was wolf exclusive but I have to imagine a few got away over the centuries.
I am surprised the spirits never trialed to win this design as it fits their style very well.
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So after discovering a few weeks back I just have a single Binary of Tau Galaxy I have decided to rectify this. So I need some ideas for mechs for a medium/light Star. I already have a Star of Protomechs and a Heavy/Assault Star. So a good light star is needed! Any ideas? Preference is for second line designs or just plain rare. Something that screams 'scraping the barrel'. And nothing that would be Star League as well unless it's a known IIc.
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So after discovering a few weeks back I just have a single Binary of Tau Galaxy I have decided to rectify this. So I need some ideas for mechs for a medium/light Star. I already have a Star of Protomechs and a Heavy/Assault Star. So a good light star is needed! Any ideas? Preference is for second line designs or just plain rare. Something that screams 'scraping the barrel'. And nothing that would be Star League as well unless it's a known IIc.
If you are building in the post absorption war era may I suggest the: crimson languer?
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Conjurer and Peregrine....I think they are excellent so called second line non omni. Vixen can be your speed demon
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will add in the Crimson Hawk, although I hear it works best if zellbrigen (sp) is not being followed as it is too light to hang in a slug fest.
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will add in the Crimson Hawk, although I hear it works best if zellbrigen (sp) is not being followed as it is too light to hang in a slug fest.
In general that's true, but it varies based on the variant. The original has paired ERLL while the 2 has paired HLL and both move 5/8/5. We all can see which is the better Zell option there. The 3 has an ERLL, an ERML, 6 IJJ, and 5/8 ground speed. Kind of weird, but you can jump around all day without overheating. The 4 came with TRO3145's NTNU recordsheets and it moves 5/8/3, but has an ERLL, a pair of ERMLs, a Heavy Flamer, and a TC. Not as cool running as all but the 2, nor as jumpy as any of them, but likely a variant newer than the Blood Spirits and thus out of consideration.
I'd go with an original, but stay the heck at long range. Each version carries over 96% armor, but at only 25 tons that's not much protection.
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If you are building in the post absorption war era may I suggest the: crimson languer?
I generally build my Blood Spirits so they fit just before the WoR. Let's me add the good toys. At the moment I'm figuring on a mix of two mediums and three lights.
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I generally build my Blood Spirits so they fit just before the WoR. Let's me add the good toys. At the moment I'm figuring on a mix of two mediums and three lights.
Then you could include the languer and any mandrill design as things got tighter between both clans
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Best laid plans I guess. I planned this weekend to sit down, figure out what I needed and place an order to fill out the Star. And I break my glasses. Costs so much I'm gonna have to put off getting the Star for about two weeks. Did find a Cougar though in a box so I may use that for one mech.
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that crunching sound is the sound of nightmares for me ... I can't function without mine, so I rarely take them off (sleep and what not).
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that crunching sound is the sound of nightmares for me ... I can't function without mine, so I rarely take them off (sleep and what not).
That's why I keep the old set or invest in a spare set. I literally cannot function without mine either.
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That's why I keep the old set or invest in a spare set. I literally cannot function without mine either.
In a case even! lol
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In a case even! lol
Well, I do hear that CASE prevents damage... ::)
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How to turn this into a BS theme ...
Having a secondary Genetic store with even better protection?
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OK, looking at the second line mechs available on IWM's and here are the choices I'm considering. Hankyu, Hunchback IIc, Baboon 2, Corvis, Ice Storm, Jenner IIc, Lobo, Snow Fox, Spirit, and the Wyvern IIc. These are all Mechs I don't own already. I also have a Viper and a Cougar on hand which I plan on using at least one one in this Star.
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OK, looking at the second line mechs available on IWM's and here are the choices I'm considering. Hankyu, Hunchback IIc, Baboon 2, Corvis, Ice Storm, Jenner IIc, Lobo, Snow Fox, Spirit, and the Wyvern IIc. These are all Mechs I don't own already. I also have a Viper and a Cougar on hand which I plan on using at least one one in this Star.
The wyvren is a very nice sculpt
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The wyvren is a very nice sculpt
I thought so. It's why I was thinking of that one pretty seriously.
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What if Andrey Krenesky decided to join the Blood Spirits after Operation Klondike instead of joining CALAN wolf with his brother Nicholas
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You mean like, to form some sort of bond between all of the Clans' warriors? That would have been kind of cool. If you're going to set up a clan based solely on 'esprit de corps' it may have been a good idea to give them some sort of supported mandate.
If he did join, I wonder if there would have been some sort of Clan UN ... where each member had to send a Binary of units to create some sort of rapid defense attack force to prepare for the invasion of the IS or clans that go rogue (with that kind of influence, maybe the Wolverines would have stayed survived? ... mini-civil war when Widowmakers went bad, less rabid absorptions?) ...
During the invasion it's still the main clans, but perhaps this Galaxy acts as some sort of inter-zone patrol?
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I am very selective about what Omnis I add into my spirit forces. My understanding of the spirits alpha galaxy is that it is fast and hard hitting so would a gargoyle/man of war be a good fit?
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Yup. A or D config for ammo-less units.
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Yup. A or D config for ammo-less units.
Thanks for the rec! Now that I know the spirits can use the woodsman Omni I have earmarked the woodsman I already have for my blood guard. I am
Going for a lyranesque wall of steel with that. But as noted the alphas seem quick on their feet
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Going back to alpha galaxy what tanks do you all use for your alpha? I have a good amount of very heavy and slow tanks are they a good alpha fit?
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I like the Ares, Joust, and ... and ... was there another one that competed with the Joust, or was around along with it? Also the Enyo
Not all are time period or faction available for BS, but if you don't let that stop you ... they're decent on firepower and speed, imo.
welp: it was just the BE701 Joust ... 40t, similar vain to Ares.
also: for a big-un ... Morrigu. Tracked, 80t, 2 ER LL, LRM+ ... range of 25 always a good thing.
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I like the Ares, Joust, and ... and ... was there another one that competed with the Joust, or was around along with it? Also the Enyo
Not all are time period or faction available for BS, but if you don't let that stop you ... they're decent on firepower and speed, imo.
welp: it was just the BE701 Joust ... 40t, similar vain to Ares.
also: for a big-un ... Morrigu. Tracked, 80t, 2 ER LL, LRM+ ... range of 25 always a good thing.
Oh sorry I have the demolisher, Burke and manticore. All slow or very slow but with big punch. So perhaps they could be the armored fist to pair with my zippy protos and fast mechs?
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Totally! ... you could even proxy machines too. Demolisher makes a great stand in for Morrigu.
Or just 'upgrade' your tech. Even mild-upgrade using the improved weapons from S.O. (clan standard ACs are one crit and one ton less, ... they have improved SRM (I like these better than the half-weight ones), I LPL, I PPC, I LL) -- all were basically stop gap weapons from standard IS tech to full clan tech. But, are not that bad.
Demolisher could go with 2 Imp AC-20 ...
There is full upgrade of the Burke in the Golden Century TRO -- quite effective (3 clan LPL !!! ... wait, maybe 2)
Manticore could go with Imp PPC, Imp LRM (pretty much same as standard clan, but min range stays ... again, I think), Imp SRM (totally worth it, imo ... goes 12 hexes), keep the ML ... it's a ML, never bad.
Any extra tonnage can go to ammo, armor, electronics, etc.
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Totally! ... you could even proxy machines too. Demolisher makes a great stand in for Morrigu.
Or just 'upgrade' your tech. Even mild-upgrade using the improved weapons from S.O. (clan standard ACs are one crit and one ton less, ... they have improved SRM (I like these better than the half-weight ones), I LPL, I PPC, I LL) -- all were basically stop gap weapons from standard IS tech to full clan tech. But, are not that bad.
Demolisher could go with 2 Imp AC-20 ...
There is full upgrade of the Burke in the Golden Century TRO -- quite effective (3 clan LPL !!! ... wait, maybe 2)
Manticore could go with Imp PPC, Imp LRM (pretty much same as standard clan, but min range stays ... again, I think), Imp SRM (totally worth it, imo ... goes 12 hexes), keep the ML ... it's a ML, never bad.
Any extra tonnage can go to ammo, armor, electronics, etc.
Thanks for the suggestions! I will prime them to night I think the alpha paint scheme will look great on tanks
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Morriqu 2 is better, Schrek C!
Demolisher C is clantech.
Mars or Mars XL, Huey for more support. Enyo for flanker units and Ares for LRM firesupport. Should make a nice Binary, particularly if you add Toads to help even if out.
TT
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I think he was trying to base his units off of the models he has.
I was totally playing up the resource poor aspect of the Blood Spirits by using the "improved" weapons. Brings down the BV quite a bit.
But that Demolisher C ... well that's just quite a fine machine to use. Think I would have gone with ER ML instead (and more armor) for the range, them's apples to apples.
Elementals for support, very good option!
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I think he was trying to base his units off of the models he has.
I was totally playing up the resource poor aspect of the Blood Spirits by using the "improved" weapons. Brings down the BV quite a bit.
But that Demolisher C ... well that's just quite a fine machine to use. Think I would have gone with ER ML instead (and more armor) for the range, them's apples to apples.
Elementals for support, very good option!
Correct!
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In that case, I do believe the Royals Burke and a Demo C to be the better combo.
Like three mixed points of these with Enyo flankers?
Solid firepower, decent speed and a hammer / anvil effect.
TT
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In that case, I do believe the Royals Burke and a Demo C to be the better combo.
Like three mixed points of these with Enyo flankers?
Solid firepower, decent speed and a hammer / anvil effect.
TT
As always thanks for the rec!
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Lol, appaerantly I'm a Ghost Bear now.
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I'm also very saddened no one thought to question the last statement.
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Are you sure you are not simply the Ilchi assigned to Clan Ghost Bear?
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Are you sure you are not simply the Ilchi assigned to Clan Ghost Bear?
No, I got my name in the short story 'The Burdens of Honor' as a Ghost Bear Mechwarrior
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must lead by nose ... where exactly is story?
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must lead by nose ... where exactly is story?
https://store.catalystgamelabs.com/collections/battletech/products/the-burdens-of-honor-battle-of-tukayyid-part-4
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Lol, appaerantly I'm a Ghost Bear now.
I'm also very saddened no one thought to question the last statement.
This is the most unintentionally funny thing I've seen this year. Did the writers at least put you in a Blood Spirit-made 'mech?
After all these years posting as one of the biggest CBS fans, you get Bear-ied instead of covered in Blood. Makes me wonder how my own canon character shall surface in the fiction.
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This is the most unintentionally funny thing I've seen this year. Did the writers at least put you in a Blood Spirit-made 'mech?
After all these years posting as one of the biggest CBS fans, you get Bear-ied instead of covered in Blood. Makes me wonder how my own canon character shall surface in the fiction.
Nah, I'm in a Mad Dog. Respectable if nothing else. The sad part was I wanted to be a merc! More chance of my full name being used.
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Are the Blood Spirits another case of "some escaped" or a case of total annihilation?
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BSG 3100 !!!! ... If there are any BS still left, they are probably abakta (sp) or bonded to other clans. Wait, most of those clans are dead too.
"They're Dead, Jim! They're All Dead!" -- ST misquote with extra cap letters.
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BSG 3100 !!!! ... If there are any BS still left, they are probably abakta (sp) or bonded to other clans. Wait, most of those clans are dead too.
Snow Ravens?
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Ravens, Foxes, ... Scorpions?
I wish the Steel Vipers hadn't gone full B.S.C. (guano style hysteria) ... but, why just demo a room while you can bring down the entire house!
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I like to think the Blood Spirits have units that survived. Another hidden colony, jumpships that were out on trade missions, small garrisons on other worlds used for rescource collection. Near the end there were dropships trying to leave Honor and Haven. They would have been attempting to reach somewhere. Dying in space wouldnt be preferable. I want to say some military units survived. You dont see mention of the Blood Guard Keshik being destroyed for one.
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I like to think the Blood Spirits have units that survived. Another hidden colony, jumpships that were out on trade missions, small garrisons on other worlds used for rescource collection. Near the end there were dropships trying to leave Honor and Haven. They would have been attempting to reach somewhere. Dying in space wouldnt be preferable. I want to say some military units survived. You dont see mention of the Blood Guard Keshik being destroyed for one.
Sadly I think the blood guard died when the flagship was wrecked.... I love that unit but I am surprised it was always kept at a cluster strength that is a mighty big hammer that hardly got used
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Honestly I would think it would be a formation that would be reconstituted quickly if destroyed. The u it is essentially a showpiece unit to show the other Clans the Spirits might. The fact it isnt mentioned being destroyed is the part that gets me. Honestly I could see the Blood Spirits choosing to create a new and more out of the way colony for a new genetics repository then use the Keshik to guard it as well as to be a fall back position. We do know that many expeditions set out besides the one the found the Colleen System.
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If there are more out there, I'd like to seem them absorbed by the Ravens and/or Foxes then forming a cluster within their new clan, ala Hellions and Scorpions.
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...Honestly I could see the Blood Spirits choosing to create a new and more out of the way colony for a new genetics repository then use the Keshik to guard it as well as to be a fall back position. We do know that many expeditions set out besides the one the found the Colleen System.
It's one of my hopes. The Jags look like they will return in some yet unknown form, I hope the Spirits have survived, too.
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It's one of my hopes. The Jags look like they will return in some yet unknown form, I hope the Spirits have survived, too.
I look forward to them jointly sharing the title of IlClan!
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Given the odds of seeing ilClan anytime soon are slim and the fact that most people don't even want to see a fair amount of the tech in the game I seriously doubt the devs will put any effort into making dead clans live again. I am personally surprised the Hanseatic Crusade got a pdf.
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Given the odds of seeing ilClan anytime soon are slim and the fact that most people don't even want to see a fair amount of the tech in the game I seriously doubt the devs will put any effort into making dead clans live again. I am personally surprised the Hanseatic Crusade got a pdf.
I think the developers have been thinking about the Homeworlds a bit more than they have for the last several years. Enough to explore the area again? Possibly.
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I think the developers have been thinking about the Homeworlds a bit more than they have for the last several years. Enough to explore the area again? Possibly.
One can hope, right?
TT
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One can hope, right?
TT
I would like some POV stories from the spirits or mandrills during the WOR
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I would like some POV stories from the spirits or mandrills during the WOR
I'd feel bad about it though ... I loved reading the Mongoose POV in Golden Century, but felt sad knowing the ending already.
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The Blood Spirits were actually doing really well through a good chunk of the WoR. It wasnt until they took on the Steel Vipers that there luck changed. They were hurt by other Clans but generally not wholesale losses but the Steel Vipers I believe wiped out Galaxys by there lonesome. And then the Viper Annihilation destroyed quite a bit more. Any POV story would have to reflect that.
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In Shrapnel #3 is a little gem.
It seems that there is still a Boques bloodhouse in the Inner Sphere (and it seems it thrives). To which Clan it does belong is not mentioned.
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In Shrapnel #3 is a little gem.
It seems that there is still a Boques bloodhouse in the Inner Sphere (and it seems it thrives). To which Clan it does belong is not mentioned.
Sea Fox, perhaps
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The Home Clan Bloodnames would be primarily concentrated among the Clans that undertook Harvest Trials, though with 70+ years of Trials, diffusion to any of the IS Clans is a possibility.
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In Shrapnel #3 is a little gem.
It seems that there is still a Boques bloodhouse in the Inner Sphere (and it seems it thrives). To which Clan it does belong is not mentioned.
I foresee a pdf purchase in my future!
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I foresee a pdf purchase in my future!
I'm eagerly waiting my physical copy.
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I foresee a pdf purchase in my future!
Thanks for this! And I cannot recommend sharpnel enough. I have the first two issues and they have been great
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My copy of Shrapnel #3 came in yesterday. Now to find this mention of Boques. Does bring up a question though. During the Harvest Trials how heavily hit were the Blood Spirits. For the longest time the only Blood Spirit in the Inner Sphere was in Clan Wolf.
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My copy of Shrapnel #3 came in yesterday. Now to find this mention of Boques. Does bring up a question though. During the Harvest Trials how heavily hit were the Blood Spirits. For the longest time the only Blood Spirit in the Inner Sphere was in Clan Wolf.
According to Shrapnel, members of nearly every Home Clan bloodhouse got Harvested, since so many warriors were champing at the bit to see action in the Inner Sphere. These troops were not necessarily Bloodnamed at the time, but could have returned to compete in Bloodright Trials if their codexes warranted it. Then they got stranded in the Inner Sphere after the Wars of Reaving, and the Council of Six came up with the Edict of Severance to give these warriors a fresh start.
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Well then it just goes to show that some Blood Spirits made it to the Inner Sphere. Here is hoping they remembered there heritage to some degree. But then again, Vlad Ward. They probably loved that guy.
On the other front, after a few months I have finally decided on the Light/Medium Star for my Tau Galaxy. With what I have on hand and have ordered I will be going with a Great Wyrm, Clint IIc, Corvis, Spirit, and a Viper. Four are distinct Secondline designs while there is a older Omni to go for the Star Commander. Plus I dont have any if these secondline designs. So now I will!
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Oh look, it's our old nemesis, the Burrock ... https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/22/world/giant-worm-lair-intl-scli-scn/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/22/world/giant-worm-lair-intl-scli-scn/index.html)
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Oh look, it's our old nemesis, the Burrock ... https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/22/world/giant-worm-lair-intl-scli-scn/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/22/world/giant-worm-lair-intl-scli-scn/index.html)
AHHIHILATE IT!
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So after rereading the fall huntress source materials and how the presence of the “ new” royal black watch drove the jags rabid, I am tickled by the idea of if ilkhan osis had been smooth enough to bring that to spirits. Noting that the spirits khan was a descendant of the last watch commander! If he had played his cards right Osis would have had an entire CLUSTER of heavy and assault mechs ready to smack down serpent
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So after rereading the fall huntress source materials and how the presence of the “ new” royal black watch drove the jags rabid, I am tickled by the idea of if ilkhan osis had been smooth enough to bring that to spirits. Noting that the spirits khan was a descendant of the last watch commander! If he had played his cards right Osis would have had an entire CLUSTER of heavy and assault mechs ready to smack down serpent
The only problem I see is that Osis wanted it to be a Smoke Jaguar victory. Yes if he mentioned the “Black Watch” both the Falcons(their first Khan commanded a company of Black Watch) and Spirits could bid for the counterattack but it would be their victory not his.
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The only problem I see is that Osis wanted it to be a Smoke Jaguar victory. Yes if he mentioned the “Black Watch” both the Falcons(their first Khan commanded a company of Black Watch) and Spirits could bid for the counterattack but it would be their victory not his.
Yup his lack of political savvy ( in addition to many many other things ) helped to doom his clan. But the blood guard keshik was on strana mechty and I addition to that big ole hammer to swing at serpent what ever aero support they could bring would have really helped! The blood guard could have had very limited mission goals such as “ drive off the highlanders from the factory” and that alone would have altered the course of the campaign allowing the jags to redeploy sorely needed forces elsewhere.
The spirits should then of course exact a very heavy cost from the jags
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I don't think the Blood Spirits as a whole cared too much for the Smoke Jaguars and certainly the Smoke Jaguars didn't care too much for the Blood Spirits. Don't think they'd cooperate to fight off the Inner Sphere together.
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I don't think the Blood Spirits as a whole cared too much for the Smoke Jaguars and certainly the Smoke Jaguars didn't care too much for the Blood Spirits. Don't think they'd cooperate to fight off the Inner Sphere together.
Oh to be clear I know no love was lost between them but what osis could have leveraged and did not was the spirits history with the black watch and their desire to fight against IS Forces
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There's nothing for Osis to leverage, that's the point. Karianna thought the Smoke Jaguars were ineffective and believed the Star League forces weren't much better, and the Star League put her and the Blood Spirits in their place in the end. She was as much a dummy as Osis was.
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Osis had no interest in outside help. Arrogance was a Jaguar watchword at that point. Plus asking for help showed weakness and that is something the Jaguars would be very hesitant to do.
Although...let's look at if he had asked for help and the Spirits had come to help then the Blood Guard Keshik was only a single jump away from Huntress but they would have jumped into a jump point with the orbitals controlled by the SLDF. even if the Bucephelus had been available it would have had to contend with eight warships as well as all those troops already on the ground. And the other Blood Spirit units were too far to be of any help anytime soon. The Keshik would have most likely been destroyed to no good purpose.
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Osis had no interest in outside help. Arrogance was a Jaguar watchword at that point. Plus asking for help showed weakness and that is something the Jaguars would be very hesitant to do.
Although...let's look at if he had asked for help and the Spirits had come to help then the Blood Guard Keshik was only a single jump away from Huntress but they would have jumped into a jump point with the orbitals controlled by the SLDF. even if the Bucephelus had been available it would have had to contend with eight warships as well as all those troops already on the ground. And the other Blood Spirit units were too far to be of any help anytime soon. The Keshik would have most likely been destroyed to no good purpose.
What’s interesting to me is that osis arrogantly demanded publicly help from the other clans when a quieter word between a khan or two would have hid the jags weaknesses for a bit longer. Re: the blockade around huntress osis came in via pirate point using a black lion. While I don’t know what the blood spirit khans command ship was the spirits did also have a black lion which had to have some of their naval reserve. Would those two be enough to break the blockade? Not sure but they could have protected the relieve force
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According to Shrapnel, members of nearly every Home Clan bloodhouse got Harvested, since so many warriors were champing at the bit to see action in the Inner Sphere. These troops were not necessarily Bloodnamed at the time, but could have returned to compete in Bloodright Trials if their codexes warranted it. Then they got stranded in the Inner Sphere after the Wars of Reaving, and the Council of Six came up with the Edict of Severance to give these warriors a fresh start.
IMHO what has forgotten here is that many Bloodnamed Warriors from all Home Clans got captured in the WoR and were taken to the Inner Sphere.
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What’s interesting to me is that osis arrogantly demanded publicly help from the other clans when a quieter word between a khan or two would have hid the jags weaknesses for a bit longer. Re: the blockade around huntress osis came in via pirate point using a black lion. While I don’t know what the blood spirit khans command ship was the spirits did also have a black lion which had to have some of their naval reserve. Would those two be enough to break the blockade? Not sure but they could have protected the relieve force
Ian Hawker was prepared to go to the Jaguars' aid even without being asked, and was only stymied by Clan Wolf. Three Jaguar WarShips alone (from Mehta's force) managed to inflict serious damage on the task force so with a little coordination Hawker's force, the three Jaguar ships from the OZ and the Spirits could have smashed the Serpent fleet. Given that the Sharks were one of the Blood Spirits' few allies Hawker might have been able to mediate a quick agreement between them and the Jaguars, and potentially the Ice Hellions since Osis had been willing to allow them to join the invasion.
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I do not think that the Spirits were allies of the Sharks, they rather were good customers for Shark goods.
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I do not think that the Spirits were allies of the Sharks, they rather were good customers for Shark goods.
Ha true but considering the utter scorn the spirits had for everyone else that is pretty good
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Probably the Sharks gave the Spirits good credits (and candy with each delivery) ;)
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Main issue is unless they all came at once any one of those fleets would have faced the eight Serpent warships. And Victor's force was right behind Mehta. The other thing to note is the number of Aerospace assets Serpent had to interdict incoming dropships. If Serpent didnt need to engage the warships, just the dropships.
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I am happy to announce that other than dullcoating the last mech the force I was working on for Tau Galaxy is finished.
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I am happy to announce that other than dullcoating the last mech the force I was working on for Tau Galaxy is finished.
We need Picts!
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So, does anyone recall any other clans that were not in favor of the annihilation/absorption of the Wolverines? ... iirc, Snow Raven, I thought Blood Spirits too. But they didn't dare abstain, let alone vote against as they would have been easily crushed by the majority.
(Plot twist! -- Not-named show up to rescue BS survivors and help them rebuild, all the better to cut the head off the Adder)
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We need Picts!
Picts? Those annoying gents from.the north of England? No, Soon. I still got to dullcoat it first! Look for pics this weekend. I want it done first before I take pictures. Plus I got to finish up two other mechs first.
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Here you all go! Pic on the weekend like I promised of the Tau Galaxy Striker Star!
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/144346425_2982361505342738_500251747944845134_o.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=2&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=udMqgmsw8jEAX8dfqxH&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=23d5029b9ece281021328c85beb9da32&oe=603B2AA7)
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Here you all go! Pic on the weekend like I promised of the Tau Galaxy Striker Star!
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/144346425_2982361505342738_500251747944845134_o.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=2&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=udMqgmsw8jEAX8dfqxH&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=23d5029b9ece281021328c85beb9da32&oe=603B2AA7)
Nice! This is one of my fav spirit paint schemes. I wish more spirit schemes have bronze highlights
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Shoot, just noticed it was so big. Pulled it from Facebook.
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OK, let's start a little discussion. You k ow, get the old brain cells working. It's the placement trials for the Invasion of the Inner Sphere and the first round the Blood Spirits beat the Burrocks, and the second round the Blood Spirits historically lose to the Nova Cats. But what if the Spirits won? And when Ulric called up reinforcements the Spirits joined the Smoke Jaguars in there invasion corridor? Think the Blood Spirits would have made a better go of it than the Nova Cats did?
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OK, let's start a little discussion. You k ow, get the old brain cells working. It's the placement trials for the Invasion of the Inner Sphere and the first round the Blood Spirits beat the Burrocks, and the second round the Blood Spirits historically lose to the Nova Cats. But what if the Spirits won? And when Ulric called up reinforcements the Spirits joined the Smoke Jaguars in there invasion corridor? Think the Blood Spirits would have made a better go of it than the Nova Cats did?
Any one would have worked better with the jags than the Nova Cats! The spirits would have had some very interesting pros and cons such as:
Pro: much larger touman than known. Their ground arm had been built in secret for decades so they could have covered “ a lot of ground”
Con: small navy. This may not have been a huge issue at first but once the logistical line got longer their navy would be overwhelmed
Pro: defense mindset the spirits would have been ideal garrison troops in some ways as nearly their entire touman had been fighting defense for years
Con: see above
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Any one would have worked better with the jags than the Nova Cats! The spirits would have had some very interesting pros and cons such as:
Pro: much larger touman than known. Their ground arm had been built in secret for decades so they could have covered “ a lot of ground”
Con: small navy. This may not have been a huge issue at first but once the logistical line got longer their navy would be overwhelmed
Pro: defense mindset the spirits would have been ideal garrison troops in some ways as nearly their entire touman had been fighting defense for years
Con: see above
Oh definitely. The Spirits had five extra Galaxy's that they would have lost fighting the Burrocks less than a decade later. But the only issue I really see is the Jaguars would have probably been just as hostile to needing help as they were with the Nova Cats. And the Blood Spirits couldn't have taken the losses the Nova Cats did at Luthien as well. The other part is the Blood Spirits would have probably made a far better job at using captured wargear to strengthen there forces. The question would be would the Blood Spirits, knowing there small size and supply line issues looked into moving wholesale into the Inner Sphere?
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They would probably move to the Inner Sphere and depending how they treated the conquered might have been more well received than the Smoke Jaguars. It would also have been interesting to see how they interacted with the Draconis Combine, government to government.
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Let's presume by skill alone that the Blood Spirits become one of Reserve Clans, and is activated by Ilkhan Ulric Kerensky to reinforce the Smoke Jaguar corridor. The Blood Spirits Touman is purely average in size and capability compared to the other Invaders, and while it's warship fleet is small, that really won't figure into things. The big problem for the Blood Spirits is they have absolutely nothing in reserve. They strained every bone, muscle and sinew to get the their strength to where it would be at that time. They might have some flex for the break in period by drawing upon what little fat they have in retirees, recruits and hastily slapped together militia that were made official by letting them defeat a one-armed warrior in a melee but outside of that? They got nothin'.
The Smoke Jaguar/Nova Cat corridors was always a different dynamic that Jade Falcon/Steel Viper/Wolf/Ghost Bear corridors, despite their adversarial nature because they worked together on occasion culminating in the glorious Battle of Luthien. If things followed this course, two Blood Spirit Galaxies would have been mauled instead of the Nova Cats. So the Blood Spirits rebuild with what little they got, move some Clusters around and next comes Tukayyid. I hope you have black armbands handy because it will be at Tukayyid that the Blood Spirits are crushed. Losing the majority of at least two more Galaxies. It is at this point things will start looking really grim for the Blood Spirits.
There's absolutely no way for them to stay in the Inner Sphere at this point. Their losses would be staggering for a Clan of their size to deal with. I doubt Khan Schmitt would survive one or the other encounter but even presuming she did, I can't see things ending well for her. The Clan would withdraw from the IS, cursing the rest of the Clans and being their usual bitter selves. There would be one bright spot in this. Like the Steel Vipers did later, the Blood Spirits would be shipping everything it can fill it's holds with back to the Homeworlds to rebuild. This bounty would probably let it survive but they'd be in no shape at all to challenge the Star Adders during the Burrock absorption. They'd curl up and go back to the isolation and things would probably become pretty dark from there.
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Let's presume by skill alone that the Blood Spirits become one of Reserve Clans, and is activated by Ilkhan Ulric Kerensky to reinforce the Smoke Jaguar corridor. The Blood Spirits Touman is purely average in size and capability compared to the other Invaders, and while it's warship fleet is small, that really won't figure into things. The big problem for the Blood Spirits is they have absolutely nothing in reserve. They strained every bone, muscle and sinew to get the their strength to where it would be at that time. They might have some flex for the break in period by drawing upon what little fat they have in retirees, recruits and hastily slapped together militia that were made official by letting them defeat a one-armed warrior in a melee but outside of that? They got nothin'.
The Smoke Jaguar/Nova Cat corridors was always a different dynamic that Jade Falcon/Steel Viper/Wolf/Ghost Bear corridors, despite their adversarial nature because they worked together on occasion culminating in the glorious Battle of Luthien. If things followed this course, two Blood Spirit Galaxies would have been mauled instead of the Nova Cats. So the Blood Spirits rebuild with what little they got, move some Clusters around and next comes Tukayyid. I hope you have black armbands handy because it will be at Tukayyid that the Blood Spirits are crushed. Losing the majority of at least two more Galaxies. It is at this point things will start looking really grim for the Blood Spirits.
There's absolutely no way for them to stay in the Inner Sphere at this point. Their losses would be staggering for a Clan of their size to deal with. I doubt Khan Schmitt would survive one or the other encounter but even presuming she did, I can't see things ending well for her. The Clan would withdraw from the IS, cursing the rest of the Clans and being their usual bitter selves. There would be one bright spot in this. Like the Steel Vipers did later, the Blood Spirits would be shipping everything it can fill it's holds with back to the Homeworlds to rebuild. This bounty would probably let it survive but they'd be in no shape at all to challenge the Star Adders during the Burrock absorption. They'd curl up and go back to the isolation and things would probably become pretty dark from there.
I think this is spot on. Unless the spirits pulled a ghost bear but earlier and worked hard to intergrate the people and infrastructure from day one AND stayed out of intra clan fighting AND bulked up their navy AND Made smart money moves with any IS resources they had gained they simple could not absorb a luthien and or tukkayid sized beating.
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I honestly don't think the Blood Spirits, at that point of time are going to be the ones to win the hearts and minds of anyone in the Inner Sphere.
The Blood Spirits are pretty much the sterling result of what happens when you're abused from birth, surviving a draconian "training" program that combines Battle Royale, Hunger Games and two back to back combat tours in 'Nam or 'Stan (take your pic) THEN while planning for D-Day to Liberate Europe, you spend the time in-between fighting constant skirmishes and brush wars from Finland to Honduras. Like literally, that is the Clan way of life! Imagine then, you're the friendly slow kid who gave everyone (boys and girls) Valentine's Day cards coz you're just being friendly and the class bullies call you names beat the tar out of you day in and day out until it's all you can do to get away and find a hiding spot. Bitterly rejected, you stop being friendly and withdraw from the world around you, only interacting in the most limited way possible and spend your time at noon hour living in your head, fantasizing about a made up world where everyone is nice to you and agree with you and there's no fighting. To make it even worse, you literally hero worship a guy who's mentality was forged with the EPIC version of what I've written so far PLUS brain damage AND did all sorts of things you look over because HEY, he got us here didn't he?
That my friends, is who you want to invade the Inner Sphere with. That's before we add in most of our arsenal is 300 year old Army Surplus that's already seen heavy use, and the people in charge are neither all that bright or mentally flexible enough to equate using warship bombardments is not how you do crowd control. I'm reminded about how Tanis turned out for the Cloud Cobras... the smallest Touman in Clan space. Tanis, a system with less than 3 million people vs the Cloud Cobras, with approximately 50-60 million people depending on this years enclave holdings. The Tanites did something no Inner Sphere world did. They said no, HELL NO, and stymied a Clan occupation force for many decades with a population 1/100th of the average Inner Sphere world, causing the Cloud Cobras to make a deal for half with the Burrocks. And you think the Blood Spirits are going to do any better? Uh-uh. No way, no how.
Next reply, I'll give you some ideas on how to turn this really maybe try to turn this around.
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I'll go with Yes, they will make a better stand than the Cats.
*Varied touman: while emphasizing mech combat, they are quite heavy in the vehicle and infantry department.
*Better defensively: having to contend with the Burrocks raiding them for a few generations, they get good at expecting the worst from others
*Better BV: won't be as outnumbered due to BV
*Making good use of captured equipment and personnel (I hope!)
*Self-sufficiency in Homeworlds (even then, besides some enclaves ... they have York) ... they bring that focus with them and do a better job at only holding ground they can, not overreaching
* "cheap/common" weapon systems: Hello Blood Kite! and LRM-15s, SRM-4s, ER LL
* Once they get zoinked (what does that even mean?) over on zellbrigen, they refuse it against IS.
*They still loose at Luthien, but survive largely intact and inflict even more damage (because author fiat and plot/fanboy armor!)
*Get at least a draw at tukayid, being better versed at combined arms
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I honestly don't think the Blood Spirits, at that point of time are going to be the ones to win the hearts and minds of anyone in the Inner Sphere.
The Blood Spirits are pretty much the sterling result of what happens when you're abused from birth, surviving a draconian "training" program that combines Battle Royale, Hunger Games and two back to back combat tours in 'Nam or 'Stan (take your pic) THEN while planning for D-Day to Liberate Europe, you spend the time in-between fighting constant skirmishes and brush wars from Finland to Honduras. Like literally, that is the Clan way of life! Imagine then, you're the friendly slow kid who gave everyone (boys and girls) Valentine's Day cards coz you're just being friendly and the class bullies call you names beat the tar out of you day in and day out until it's all you can do to get away and find a hiding spot. Bitterly rejected, you stop being friendly and withdraw from the world around you, only interacting in the most limited way possible and spend your time at noon hour living in your head, fantasizing about a made up world where everyone is nice to you and agree with you and there's no fighting. To make it even worse, you literally hero worship a guy who's mentality was forged with the EPIC version of what I've written so far PLUS brain damage AND did all sorts of things you look over because HEY, he got us here didn't he?
That my friends, is who you want to invade the Inner Sphere with. That's before we add in most of our arsenal is 300 year old Army Surplus that's already seen heavy use, and the people in charge are neither all that bright or mentally flexible enough to equate using warship bombardments is not how you do crowd control. I'm reminded about how Tanis turned out for the Cloud Cobras... the smallest Touman in Clan space. Tanis, a system with less than 3 million people vs the Cloud Cobras, with approximately 50-60 million people depending on this years enclave holdings. The Tanites did something no Inner Sphere world did. They said no, HELL NO, and stymied a Clan occupation force for many decades with a population 1/100th of the average Inner Sphere world, causing the Cloud Cobras to make a deal for half with the Burrocks. And you think the Blood Spirits are going to do any better? Uh-uh. No way, no how.
Next reply, I'll give you some ideas on how to turn this really maybe try to turn this around.
I mean no lies detected...! I do agree that the spirits bunker mindset would serve them very poorly in the IS. They really never had to governor a big population and I think would have struggled to do so.
For garrison purposes they could have created a “3rd line” defense force using their large population of wash outs using captured IS salvage and production until they could gear up their clan tech factories
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I'll go with Yes, they will make a better stand than the Cats.
*Varied touman: while emphasizing mech combat, they are quite heavy in the vehicle and infantry department.
*Better defensively: having to contend with the Burrocks raiding them for a few generations, they get good at expecting the worst from others
*Better BV: won't be as outnumbered due to BV
*Making good use of captured equipment and personnel (I hope!)
*Self-sufficiency in Homeworlds (even then, besides some enclaves ... they have York) ... they bring that focus with them and do a better job at only holding ground they can, not overreaching
* "cheap/common" weapon systems: Hello Blood Kite! and LRM-15s, SRM-4s, ER LL
* Once they get zoinked (what does that even mean?) over on zellbrigen, they refuse it against IS.
*They still loose at Luthien, but survive largely intact and inflict even more damage (because author fiat and plot/fanboy armor!)
*Get at least a draw at tukayid, being better versed at combined arms
Ok we can all agree that a no holds barred throw down between the blood guard keshik and the dragons claws on luthien would have been amazing!
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oh and no silliness of a DC mech with sword charging a Blood Kite (with 9 weapon systems that have no minimum range btw) and running it through with a sword. Even clan vehs are dangerous ... sure a Hachiman is only a tank, but with two LRM-20s.
Honestly, I think the one difference would have been some less stereotypical clan superiority blunders (I said less, not 'none' lol)
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Also more fanboy dreams:
They allow the Mandrills to Trial to participate in a limited fashion ... yes, yes, turn the whole affair on its head!
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Also more fanboy dreams:
They allow the Mandrills to Trial to participate in a limited fashion ... yes, yes, turn the whole affair on its head!
May I suggest you take these fun ideas to my “ joint blood spirits and mandrill campaign”thread
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One thing we are looking at here is the Blood Spirits doing just as well at Luthien and Tukkayid as the Nova Cats did. Honestly I see them doing better at both battles. At Tukayyid the Blood Spirits for one probably would have landed and disembarked from there dropships rather than jumping out! Plus they probably would have fielded far more conventional armor and Elementals than the Nova Cats would have. At Luthien they might have used actual tactics rather than pile into a valley for a free for all!
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Alright, had to make dinner for the kid.
To make the Blood Spirits work in the IS, or really to advance the Clan at all is to fridge Khan Schmitt and the Loremaster. Schmitt is at best delusional and at worst, incompetent but the one that really screws up the Clan is the Loremaster (his name escapes me atm), and he's the one who convinced Schmitt to jump in against the Burrocks and Star Adders during the Burrock Absorption so he's definitely the enabler of soon to be bad ideas. She's dumb coz she listens to him and he's dumber because well, he killed his Clan in the end.
So assuming you have someone less to jump into doing stupid things, we're off to a much better start already. The other is to accept that there is no chance at all of your Clan becoming the IlClan so don't stick you neck out and to do stupid things to achieve that. Essentially the Blood Spirits have to make the decision that the Ghost Bears did and aim for what's achievable and not what is a fairy tale. And that's going to be really hard for the Blood Spirits because as a Clan, they have these blinders to what the reality is compared to what they want it to be but, with a sure hand they could avoid that pitfall for the most part.
I firmly dispute any chance, at least until after Tukayyid that the Blood Spirits would do any better than the Nova Cats. Nova Cats had a much larger, and better equipped Touman. The Blood Spirits aren't total garbage but they're overall allot less flexible and allot more parity with IS forces. Yes they have tanks, but most of what they have are not GOOD tanks and have nowhere near the industrial capacity bigger Clans have. They are truly Clan second fiddle out of the Invaders. So they're not going to take as much territory so what they do take is firmly held. Don't mistake their "bigger" Clusters or their greater number of them as being good - they're okay, but the vees are no replacement for the mechs other Clans use, at least with the way they use them. They're going to a thinner ribbon, more in the style of the original Ghost Bear corridor than the broad corridors of the Wolves or Smoke Jaguars. They're also going to have different disputes with the Smoke Jaguars than the Nova Cats did amd I'm not sure the Blood Spirits could deal with those challenges easily.
As to inviting the Fire Mandrills along, that carries allot of risk. You'd have to do it in the style Vlad did with the Hell's Horses to make it feasible and not show that you're weak. Remember the Invader-Homeworld Clan dynamic means the Invaders basically have hold themselves aloof from the Homeworlders who end up resenting the hell out of it. The Fire Mandrills other problem is well... they're Fire Mandrills and basically you're trying to herd a very dysfunctional Clan into an already pressure cooker of environment. No Telling what those guys will do! I honestly think the Blood Spirits are in a hell of a spot as an Invader clan. There are better pairings and partnerships to be had than the Fire Mandrills.
Lastly, there's the Burrock Absorption. I do not believe it'd go as cheerily as it did in canon between the Burrocks and the Star Adders at the time because the Blood Spirits, no matter how outraged they are, just would not be in a position to interfere and that allowed the two other Clans to focus on the Blood Spirits, shattering them and in a way preserving themselves as by the end of it, they had fought with honor and aligned at least briefly, politically in the aftermath. I think the Star Adders would have had a much tougher row to hoe, maybe not taking as much concentrated damage as they did but spread over the Clan as a whole, leaving them in a longer period of downtime. Maybe the Burrocks prevail and survive but it still leave them unable to bully the Blood Spirits who use this time to build themselves up.
There's more thoughts to be had, but that's for another post.
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Burrock Absorption,
IIRC, the Burrock warriors were basically fighting harvest trials with the Star Adders before the Spirits jumped in. This event is what caused the massive losses for the Burrocks and Adders.
No Blood Spirit attack and you have the Adders much much stronger than canon with the complete Absorption of the Burrock Touman almost intact.
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Without interfering in the Burrock absorption the Blood Spirits have five extra Galaxys they wouldnt have had. Maybe honestly asking if the Spirits getting the Nova Cat spot wasnt the best chance for there survival. Maybe it was to join the Snow Ravens when they left for the Periphery and filled the 'ground strength' the Snow Ravens lacked.
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Without interfering in the Burrock absorption the Blood Spirits have five extra Galaxys they wouldnt have had. Maybe honestly asking if the Spirits getting the Nova Cat spot wasnt the best chance for there survival. Maybe it was to join the Snow Ravens when they left for the Periphery and filled the 'ground strength' the Snow Ravens lacked.
I would love to see the colours of the “Blood Ravens”
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Probably red and black with some white as a highlight color.
Also, WH40K Blood Ravens say, "Hello".
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Probably red and black with some white as a highlight color.
Also, WH40K Blood Ravens say, "Hello".
Lol yes!!!
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There's quite a few possible partnerships in the mix for the Blood Spirits without stretching Clan logic to the breaking point. I'm going to give you the broad outline and then work on a follow up post with the details coz this is going to take me some time.
Partnership A: Fire Mandrills
Partnership B: Snow Ravens
Partnership C: Cloud Cobras
Partnership D: A combination of two or more of A, B and C.
Partnership E: Smoke Jaguars
Partnership F: Hell's Horses
Partnership G: Steel Vipers
Partnership H: Star Adders
Partnership I: A combination of two or more of E, F, G and H
Partnership J: Other Clan possibilities
Partnership M: The Inner Sphere
Partnership N: The second Star League
Partnership O: The Periphery
Partnership P: Exodus II
Partnership Q: Descent into Madness
Feel free to suggest other possibilities in the meantime and I'll get to them eventually.
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Snow Ravens would be the best bet I think. The two Clans would compliment each other. The other advantage is a long term trade relationship as well as the increase if forces would have allowed the Ravens and the Outworlds Alliance to expand back into the territory that havent been in the borders since the star League era.
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I'd scratch G, H, M ... um, because reasons! >:D
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I'd scratch G, H, M ... um, because reasons! >:D
Why not the Steel Vipers? Near as I can tell until the WoR's the two Clans relations were cordial.
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From the Inner Sphere PoV H would be the best choice ;)
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Also more fanboy dreams:
They allow the Mandrills to Trial to participate in a limited fashion ... yes, yes, turn the whole affair on its head!
They got along very well with the crusader kindraa like my fav KINDRAA Mick Kreese which was aero focused which would have covered a weakness in air and transport coverage. Heck that kindraa had a Potemkin which would have been a great help!
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Snow Ravens, they at least still had an "ambassador" assigned with them. Before they jumped into the Burrock gig, they had to have had at least 9 good Galaxies with more in reserve since they bid 9 Galaxies for Revival invasion.
So before revival, they don't seem to be that bad off. Maybe smaller than others, maybe resource poor. If the Ravens and Spirits "combined" they would be pretty fearsome.
Only issue I see is the Warden Ravens having issues with Crusader leaning Spirits.
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Why not the Steel Vipers? Near as I can tell until the WoR's the two Clans relations were cordial.
Maybe their respective psychoses would balance each other out ... ok CSV is in for me!
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Snow Ravens, they at least still had an "ambassador" assigned with them. Before they jumped into the Burrock gig, they had to have had at least 9 good Galaxies with more in reserve since they bid 9 Galaxies for Revival invasion.
So before revival, they don't seem to be that bad off. Maybe smaller than others, maybe resource poor. If the Ravens and Spirits "combined" they would be pretty fearsome.
Only issue I see is the Warden Ravens having issues with Crusader leaning Spirits.
They were very friendly even on opposite sides of the political spectrum. I think it was that the two Clans had worked together in the past with little issue that they almost trusted each other. Almost. I could see the two Clans working together during a move to the Inner Sphere with the Spirits taking the fore as ground troops while the Ravens handled logistics and force movements. The issue would be how they treated Inner Sphere citizens on arrival that would cause issues.
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They just need a guiding hand. Bar none, they just need to take some notes from the Ghost Bears, Wolves and Nova Cats.
Even after the Burrock fiasco, the Spirits had roughly 5 Galaxies left, combined with the Ravens limited ground forces, easily 10 Galaxies of ground troops.
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They just need a guiding hand. Bar none, they just need to take some notes from the Ghost Bears, Wolves and Nova Cats.
Even after the Burrock fiasco, the Spirits had roughly 5 Galaxies left, combined with the Ravens limited ground forces, easily 10 Galaxies of ground troops.
Going by the amount of damage the Spirits did during the Burrock Absorbtion and the WoR the Blood Spirits were pretty nasty in the field. Enough that I would have put them up against any other Clan one on one.
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One of their biggest Achilles heal moments (according to Crusader Clans or WoR, can't remember which) was the loss of many more senior/independent minded officers, those that would adapt to a changing situation.
'Course we all know that we would not suffer those drawbacks!
someone mentioned many lower caste were washed out of the warrior program ... If in the IS they would totally be ready to pick up salvage and get back in the game.
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I fell down a deep rabbit hole (research/citing needs) in making sure I could back my arguments, and my to-be post has grown into a small document. I'm going to end up breaking it down into a couple or trio of posts at this rate. Anyways, I haven't forgotten about it - I just got derailed by getting some much needed work after being locked down since Christmas over the plague. So Wednesday, I should be free again. Maybe a post tonight, if everything wraps up quick.
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Lots of great ideas out there.
If the Spirits took the Cats' slot as a reserve Clan, here is what I see:
1. The Spirits with their 'hidden' Galaxies, besides turning heads in the Homeworlds, behave differently than the Jaguars on the planets assigned. Resource poor, they work with the former Combine population to increase production across the board. Done correctly, they might be able to win over the non-Japanese population who had resented the Combine.
2. The Spirits bring in their two known allies, the Mandrills and Cobras. Based on the Wolves bringing in the Horses, I see each Clan receiving two systems with, of course, a small Spirit force taking notes. The Cobras, given their religious beliefs, are more tolerant towards their conquered planets populations, as long as they behave. Assuming this is successful, the Spirits and Mandrills follow suit. At this point, the Jaguars notice and maybe follow suit as well.
3. With their small fleet, the Spirits must figure out something and contract with both the Sharks and Ravens for transport and maintenance creating a potential situation where each Clan receives a part or its own system to govern reducing Spirit garrisoning costs freeing up troops for the frontlines.
4. The Jaguars are ticked, but realize the Spirits have hit upon something sending out feelers to the rest of the Homeworld Clans. The rest of the Homeworld Clans, seeing what has happened between the Spirits, Mandrills, Cobras, Sharks, and Ravens, agitate in the Council and begin approaching the rest of the Invading Clans. Deals are hammered out (mostly out fear of being left behind or vulnerable) and suddenly every Clan has a presence in the IZ. The IZ now looks like a map of Germany from the Middle Ages.
5. That said, the Bears and maybe the Wolves do not bite as deep. Their holdings stay mostly in one piece forcing the other Clan IZ's to take the heat. At Luthien, the IS forces take hideous losses and maybe Luthien falls. Even with Wolf's Dragoons, I think the combined forces from the Jaguars, Spirits, with elements of the Cobras, Mandrills, Sharks, and Ravens would prove overwhelming unless Hanse commits more to the table.
6. Tukayid turns into a crapshoot at this stage. If Luthien had fallen, the lessons learned by the Clans there would be discerned by the rest of the Clans. End result, I doubt the offer from Comstar for a proxy battle at Tukayid would be made. Instead, Comstar redoubles its efforts to boost warship production throughout the IS and at Terra. Planetary bombardments of troops become regular, along with Jumpship and shipyard destruction.
7. Eventually, the IS sends out a last chance task force which makes its way to the Clan Homeworlds and begins nuking each one in turn until the task force is destroyed. At word of this, Clan Warships in the IS begin the indiscriminate bombarding of major population centers everywhere they can, even hitting FWL, CC, and FS planets.
8. Billions are now dead. Countless economies are ruined. Knowledge across the board is lost. Welcome back to the early days when a small Jumpship with only a Union-class Dropship could conquer a planet.
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Nice list! ... it went to hell in a hand-basket quick, but "them's the apples"
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And the Marians conquer the sphere...
Until those Niopians show up and ruin a good day! xp
TT
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Something I do see is the Spirits treating the populations far differently than the Jaguars did. The Jaguars were far more heavy handed in there treatment. In many ways the stratified Combine society would easily adapt to the Clan caste system. In many regards the Combine citizenry would be treated better under the Blood Spirits than they were under the Combine.
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In many regards the Battle of Luthien may have triggered the Blood Spirits abandoning the clans. The warriors would have seen civilians putting themselves in harms way to stop them similar how their own population is trained. They would have also seen the Edo massacre first hand and thought that the Clans have truly fallen from the pedestal they stood on.
Oddly if that occurred the way I envisioned they would have been more stronger than the Nova Cats post Adjuration.
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Something I do see is the Spirits treating the populations far differently than the Jaguars did. The Jaguars were far more heavy handed in there treatment. In many ways the stratified Combine society would easily adapt to the Clan caste system. In many regards the Combine citizenry would be treated better under the Blood Spirits than they were under the Combine.
I do see the potential for this to happen if a savvy officer or khan was handling this as the close knit spirit society is I believe pretty harmonious. However as they have not ever had to manage large territory or populations before I could also see them fall into the jags “ shut up and work harder” mode
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...
Oddly if that occurred the way I envisioned they would have been more stronger than the Nova Cats post Adjuration.
If they did anything other than choose to get wiped out on Tukayyid they would be in a better position.
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In many regards the Battle of Luthien may have triggered the Blood Spirits abandoning the clans. The warriors would have seen civilians putting themselves in harms way to stop them similar how their own population is trained. They would have also seen the Edo massacre first hand and thought that the Clans have truly fallen from the pedestal they stood on.
Oddly if that occurred the way I envisioned they would have been more stronger than the Nova Cats post Adjuration.
Re: luthien do you think the spirits would have demanded to revise the bid once the combined brought in the Mercs?
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Honestly I dont see the Spirits joining the Jaguars in invading Luthien. They would see it as a waste of rescources and would take advantage of the Jaguars invading that world to strike at worlds they could use. Especially as they would know the Jaguars might stab them in the back after that world fell.
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Honestly I dont see the Spirits joining the Jaguars in invading Luthien. They would see it as a waste of rescources and would take advantage of the Jaguars invading that world to strike at worlds they could use. Especially as they would know the Jaguars might stab them in the back after that world fell.
But at that time especially the invasion has devolved into an ever escalating flex off. The jags and nova cats went after a bigger capital world because the wolfs had already netted one right?
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Ulric new how to provoke the Jags. With the fall of Tamar, Alshain, and Rasalhague, the Jags had something to prove.
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Ulric new how to provoke the Jags. With the fall of Tamar, Alshain, and Rasalhague, the Jags had somep
Haw and what they proved is they could be baited!
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Haw and what they proved is they could be baited!
Over and over again, at that.
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Over and over again, at that.
Honestly it is why I kind of like them and the mandrills now they are very reliably cartoony!
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Ulrich disliked the Jaguars intensely. I could have seen Ulric though rather than manipulating the Spirits like he did the Jaguars trying to use them to counter Jaguar ambitions. He would know there strength wasnt up to really invading the Sphere but would have used them as garrison troops for the Jaguars. The Jsguars bleed while the Spirits rolled up smaller worlds and garrisoned important worlds.
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2. The Spirits bring in their two known allies, the Mandrills and Cobras. Based on the Wolves bringing in the Horses, I see each Clan receiving two systems with, of course, a small Spirit force taking notes. The Cobras, given their religious beliefs, are more tolerant towards their conquered planets populations, as long as they behave. Assuming this is successful, the Spirits and Mandrills follow suit. At this point, the Jaguars notice and maybe follow suit as well.
This is going to get the Spirits Absorbed or Annihilated, thumbing their nose at the Clan Council who created the trials to determine which clans could participate in the invasion.
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This is going to get the Spirits Absorbed or Annihilated, thumbing their nose at the Clan Council who created the trials to determine which clans could participate in the invasion.
Was it only the ilkhan who could activate reserve clans?
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I say sort of a grey area. Jade Falcons had Raven warships, probably with crews.
Wolves made a deal with Hells Horses, but later on. Not sure how bringing in Mandrill and Cobra's would go over.
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Was it only the ilkhan who could activate reserve clans?
Pretty sure during the actual Invasion it was only him who could do so. Though like the Jade Falcons I can see ways around it like they did with the extra warships. The Snow Ravens never actually held any worlds but took a support role. Could the other Clans have done so? Possibly. Could the Blood Spirits gone to Ulric and petitioned to bring in other Clans to support them? oh yes. And Ulric probably would have OK'd it.
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Just off the top of my head, the whole Reserve Clan activation issue could be sidestepped if the Spirits treated it as a contract bid, like with the Cobras and Burrocks/Adders and the Tanite worlds.
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Was it only the ilkhan who could activate reserve clans?
The reserve clans were the Steel Vipers, Nova Cats, and Diamond Sharks were the reserve clans, or the Steel Vipers, Blood Spirits and Diamond Sharks in this version. The IlKhan was the one to activate the reserve clans, which was a slight to the clans they were 'relieving'.
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I'm sure before we invited guests there would be a trial for it. Depending on the Ilkhan's disposition those trials be nigh impossible to a fair fight. Or the results of the trial would determine what level of involvement an invited clan would get. I could see Ulric liking this possibility, it would tick off the Falcons to no end (who would go after the Wolves), Jaguars would be equally angry but react completely differently (target the Spirits, and Kerensky willing, find more than their match).
The whole process may destabilize the invasion, actually save the Jaguars, prevent a counter invasion to the home worlds (Still would expect some sort of Clan Civil War), and give the IS a wider target selection thereby ensuring they fight amongst themselves as much as they fight with the Clans.
It is all fanboy talk, but fun to think about.
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The one thing it would change is that the Second Star League wouldnt find a ally among the Blood Spirits like they did the Nova Cats. Would have made the Jaguar Annihilation a far different story.
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I bet we would have forced them to follow some basic clan protocols though. (Was an early Jaguar fan, before the fiction turned them into some sort of rabid attack cats ... or before I at least knew about them being rabid attack cats).
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One thing to note about the Ravens is that they were specifically barred from participating in the Revival Trials, because their touman was deemed too small to effectively fight in the Inner Sphere and protect their Homeworld holdings. So, it could very well be that, because they were never defeated in the Revival Trials the Clans deemed it acceptable for the Ravens to volunteer some of their Warships to supplement the fleets of the Invading Clans.
Though, the Blood Spirits as a reserve Clan does open up the interesting prospect of the Ravens as traditional allies of the Spirits and the fact that the Ravens became increasingly dissatisfied with their arrangement with the Falcons might very well have shifted their Warships from helping the Falcons to aiding the Blood Spirits, after the Spiritis activation, who may have given the Ravens more independence in their operations than the Falcons likely gave them, and given them a better resource sharing deal than the Falcons.
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I like the idea of the Snow Ravens and the Blood Spirits working together as part of the invasion. Even in the Snow Ravens Ravens Exodus to the Inner Sphere they would have done well to invite the Blood Spirits to join them. Could you imagine the Snow Raven/Blood Spirit Fleet arriving in the Periphery together looking to settle a new home and finding the Outworlds Alliance? For one the two Clans working together would have reclaimed many of that state's abandoned worlds for there own.
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I see something different. A mixed bag, if you will. One of the biggest problems I've always seen in fan theories is the certainty that while Event A (in this case, the Spirits invading instead of the Cats) may be different in this new timeline, that Events B (Luthien) & C (Tukayyid)will surely happen exactly as they did in the real canon. Maybe, maybe not.
We know the Spirits had excellent relations with their lower castemen, going so far as to arm them to protect the Clan itself. Given the massive overreactions of the Jaguars in canon, there is a strong probablity the former Combine citizens will realize the differences between the two Clans. Cooperation with the Spirits, upon seeing the way the strict but fair Spirits behave towards their own people, bodes better for them than the likes of rebellion and Edo, which would serve as a signal lesson. The already strict lives of the people under the Combine may be blase' to their new master's ways, even though their lives will change in the major sense as Clan government begins to descend around them. Wheedling may become common as the people adjust to the Clan meritocracy and look for advantage. The fact that it won't work will breed some resentment but it's still better than living under Jaguar rule. The people could end up policing themselves to avoid the worst of what Clantech weaponry can do when they try to become uppity.
Militarily, the Spirits are stronger technology wise than any IS House or merc force. Despite so much of their touman being of older tech, it is deadly effective in their expert hands. We see in the canon timeline Spirits destroying seven galaxies of Burrock/Adder troops to the loss of about five of their own. That's a hella showing considering both of those Clans were richer in resources and Clantech than the Spirits. They will stumble as they adjust to the Inner Sphere but will annihilate any irregular opposition just like the Falcons, Wolves, Vipers, etc., did. It's nigh impossible for pistols to beat rifles except in limited scenarios. Once the Spirit leadership has a problem figured out, I can see them doing well against any opposition.
The biggest problem will be the Spirits interClan relations which could threaten to bring everything down to a lower level of success. Once Jag/former Combine citizens see the Spirits treating their new citizens markedly different, the same agitations that have caused the Jaguars problems in the past with lower castemen will surely rise. I think the Spirits will receive support from the Wolves and Bears just to stymy the Jags but it'll cause waves in the water that will distract the BS leadership from more productive work. Of course, prior good relations with the Ravens, Mandrills, and Cobras could ameliorate this somewhat with contracts for resources to those Clans in exchange for logistical support. With the securing of several worlds, the Blood Spirits will have so many resources they won't be able to harness well them without help. As an Invader Clan (and having been the smallest Clan to this point) the Spirits will become very rich for their size and be able to upgrade their entire touman in size and capability within four generations while uplifting its allies as well. This would likely vault them into the top half or even third of the Clans in power rankings and influence. With a few more generations and savvy leaders, the entire Clan could move completely to the Inner Sphere more easily than the Bears did and become as powerful as any of the top Clans. Jealousy will always rise among rivals so this wouldn't be without cost. Anyone in the Homeworlds could attack the Spirits in a sense like Vipers did to the Falcons at the Wars of Reavings' start but the good money will always be on the Burrocks unless the Adders discover the same things they did in canon and Absorb them. But being in the Inner Sphere, I doubt the Spirits will worry too much with their newfound wealth and power. Heck, it may a sort of insouciance they treat the rest of the Homeworld Clans that provokes the Burrocks and/or Adders or Coyotes to attempt to divest them of thier Homeworld assets.
In the end, even with Clan events proceeding as they did in the canon timeline, the Spirits still stand a great chance of coming out on top, better than ever, than they were able to in the Kerensky Cluster.
amirite?
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I see something different. A mixed bag, if you will. One of the biggest problems I've always seen in fan theories is the certainty that while Event A (in this case, the Spirits invading instead of the Cats) may be different in this new timeline, that Events B (Luthien) & C (Tukayyid)will surely happen exactly as they did in the real canon. Maybe, maybe not.
We know the Spirits had excellent relations with their lower castemen, going so far as to arm them to protect the Clan itself. Given the massive overreactions of the Jaguars in canon, there is a strong probablity the former Combine citizens will realize the differences between the two Clans. Cooperation with the Spirits, upon seeing the way the strict but fair Spirits behave towards their own people, bodes better for them than the likes of rebellion and Edo, which would serve as a signal lesson. The already strict lives of the people under the Combine may be blase' to their new master's ways, even though their lives will change in the major sense as Clan government begins to descend around them. Wheedling may become common as the people adjust to the Clan meritocracy and look for advantage. The fact that it won't work will breed some resentment but it's still better than living under Jaguar rule. The people could end up policing themselves to avoid the worst of what Clantech weaponry can do when they try to become uppity.
Militarily, the Spirits are stronger technology wise than any IS House or merc force. Despite so much of their touman being of older tech, it is deadly effective in their expert hands. We see in the canon timeline Spirits destroying seven galaxies of Burrock/Adder troops to the loss of about five of their own. That's a hella showing considering both of those Clans were richer in resources and Clantech than the Spirits. They will stumble as they adjust to the Inner Sphere but will annihilate any irregular opposition just like the Falcons, Wolves, Vipers, etc., did. It's nigh impossible for pistols to beat rifles except in limited scenarios. Once the Spirit leadership has a problem figured out, I can see them doing well against any opposition.
The biggest problem will be the Spirits interClan relations which could threaten to bring everything down to a lower level of success. Once Jag/former Combine citizens see the Spirits treating their new citizens markedly different, the same agitations that have caused the Jaguars problems in the past with lower castemen will surely rise. I think the Spirits will receive support from the Wolves and Bears just to stymy the Jags but it'll cause waves in the water that will distract the BS leadership from more productive work. Of course, prior good relations with the Ravens, Mandrills, and Cobras could ameliorate this somewhat with contracts for resources to those Clans in exchange for logistical support. With the securing of several worlds, the Blood Spirits will have so many resources they won't be able to harness well them without help. As an Invader Clan (and having been the smallest Clan to this point) the Spirits will become very rich for their size and be able to upgrade their entire touman in size and capability within four generations while uplifting its allies as well. This would likely vault them into the top half or even third of the Clans in power rankings and influence. With a few more generations and savvy leaders, the entire Clan could move completely to the Inner Sphere more easily than the Bears did and become as powerful as any of the top Clans. Jealousy will always rise among rivals so this wouldn't be without cost. Anyone in the Homeworlds could attack the Spirits in a sense like Vipers did to the Falcons at the Wars of Reavings' start but the good money will always be on the Burrocks unless the Adders discover the same things they did in canon and Absorb them. But being in the Inner Sphere, I doubt the Spirits will worry too much with their newfound wealth and power. Heck, it may a sort of insouciance they treat the rest of the Homeworld Clans that provokes the Burrocks and/or Adders or Coyotes to attempt to divest them of thier Homeworld assets.
In the end, even with Clan events proceeding as they did in the canon timeline, the Spirits still stand a great chance of coming out on top, better than ever, than they were able to in the Kerensky Cluster.
amirite?
A very interesting take! May I add that I could see a repeat of ancient clan history where former IS citizens would seek to join the spirit OZ causing the jags to lash outb
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I can see it playing out like that. The Spirits would be a good contender for a 'mirror opposite' to the Warden leaning Ghost Bears. Could you imagine Blood Spirits influencing the former Combine citizens with the Crusader ideal attached to the Blood Spirits sense of family?
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The Draconis Spirits same set up as the Ghost Bear Dominion only with a Kurita, Tetsuhara and other great warrior bloodnames. The Black Dragons would take offence but it could have been a positive move.
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The Draconis Spirits same set up as the Ghost Bear Dominion only with a Kurita, Tetsuhara and other great warrior bloodnames. The Black Dragons would take offence but it could have been a positive move.
Or the Black Dragons the the ones the Spirits draw in somehow. Imagine a Ricol bloodname...
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The Draconis Spirits same set up as the Ghost Bear Dominion only with a Kurita, Tetsuhara and other great warrior bloodnames. The Black Dragons would take offence but it could have been a positive move.
Holy heck! I never thought of that
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What if under their clan partnerships someone from the Sainze blood name comes along too? ... if you read the first part of Randall Bill's pdf book (umm, hold on a sec ...), Fall From Glory (honestly, only got thru first several pages, need some dedicated time) The DC officer was taken along as the left system.
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What if under their clan partnerships someone from the Sainze blood name comes along too? ... if you read the first part of Randall Bill's pdf book (umm, hold on a sec ...), Fall From Glory (honestly, only got thru first several pages, need some dedicated time) The DC officer was taken along as the left system.
That wouldnt mean much after four Succession Wars. Most of the Combine wouldnt have heard of Sainze and those that did he would just be a minor footnote in a history book.
Draconis Spirits. I totally love that name.
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Blood Dragons ... y'know for those DC immigrants forming their own cluster or two.
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you know, with a few minor tweaks we could really have changed the course of CBS history ... and broadcast journalism! hah! dad joke.
There are quite a few footnotes of how we just went berserk, like some BS crazy teenager. BS in the case refers to guano. I just skimmed thru Sarna and there was an event with the Ghost Bears that could have given quite a boost to the touman. But noooooo, Khan Schmidt simply saw red and attacked.
That event alone, could have netted CBS some mighty fine resources. Between CBS, CFM, and CIH I think we were all terrified of becoming the next Clan Mongoose.
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you know, with a few minor tweaks we could really have changed the course of CBS history ... and broadcast journalism! hah! dad joke.
There are quite a few footnotes of how we just went berserk, like some BS crazy teenager. BS in the case refers to guano. I just skimmed thru Sarna and there was an event with the Ghost Bears that could have given quite a boost to the touman. But noooooo, Khan Schmidt simply saw red and attacked.
That event alone, could have netted CBS some mighty fine resources. Between CBS, CFM, and CIH I think we were all terrified of becoming the next Clan Mongoose.
Two words. Karanna Schmitt. Almost all the Spirits misfortune stem from her bad decisions. She could have been more patient and it would have served the Spirits well but she saw red and attacked.
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Two words. Karanna Schmitt. Almost all the Spirits misfortune stem from her bad decisions. She could have been more patient and it would have served the Spirits well but she saw red and attacked.
I thought the two words were “Burrock Absorption” losing the five Galaxies hurt but it could have developed that the Blood Spirits would be the first to jump ship due to the perceived betrayal.
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I thought the two words were “Burrock Absorption” losing the five Galaxies hurt but it could have developed that the Blood Spirits would be the first to jump ship due to the perceived betrayal.
One of her worst decisions.
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One of her worst decisions.
The lore master at the time pushed her into it and betrayed their own ideals. Meanwhile he also squashed attempts to coalition build with other clans.
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Two words. Karanna Schmitt. Almost all the Spirits misfortune stem from her bad decisions. She could have been more patient and it would have served the Spirits well but she saw red and attacked.
It's somehow ironic that the downfall of the Spirits came from a Khan who allegedly resembeled the founder of the Clan. A founder who espoused teamwork above all else and had managed to end a dispute between the Adders and the Bears during the Arcadia campaign.
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Blood Spirits and Irony go hand-in-hand.
The two Clans that espoused teamwork, the Spirits and the Adders, should have gotten along great, like old friends. Then the ill-conceived Burrock Absorption surprise attack happened.
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Blood Spirits and Irony go hand-in-hand.
The two Clans that espoused teamwork, the Spirits and the Adders, should have gotten along great, like old friends. Then the ill-conceived Burrock Absorption surprise attack happened.
I thought the Spirits already went into half-isolation way before this disastrous decision. If I remember correctly after the Wolverine annihilation they were accused of having Wolverine sympathies (by the Burrocks no less though that would explain why they hate the Burrocks so much)
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I thought the Spirits already went into half-isolation way before this disastrous decision. If I remember correctly after the Wolverine annihilation they were accused of having Wolverine sympathies (by the Burrocks no less though that would explain why they hate the Burrocks so much)
They had been in isolation nursing their grudges and building their strength. The burrock absorption wasted that strength and started new grudges...
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It didnt help the competitive spirit of the Clans went against the goal of the Blood Spirits to foster ties among the Clans. It was essentially a impossible task Nicky K set for the Blood Spirits.
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It didnt help the competitive spirit of the Clans went against the goal of the Blood Spirits to foster ties among the Clans. It was essentially a impossible task Nicky K set for the Blood Spirits.
I always wondered about that. The way I see it, it should have worked. From what I got from the older sources and even a bit from Op:Klondike, the competition was supposed to be more of a "Friendly Rivalry" pushing each other to succeed sharing the same type of teamwork that they were supposed to show during Klondike. What I see happened was that Nick underestimated the fractious nature that developed. I firmly believe that if Nick had not set the "Whoever does best gets me" condition, there would have been more coordination and the Spirits would be able to due their job. I am explaining this spoorly, but I think you get my point.
It was impossible, but it should not have been.
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I used to think the Blood Spirits were deliberately set up to fail by Nicky K. That they were going to be the example Clan for Absorption/Annihilation, except the the Wolverines piped up and became that example, sparing the Blood Spirits. But Jellico set me straight. Or I think it was Jellico. It was one of the writers.
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It didnt help the competitive spirit of the Clans went against the goal of the Blood Spirits to foster ties among the Clans. It was essentially a impossible task Nicky K set for the Blood Spirits.
That one always got to me, but then again I kept trying to look thru that lens with some sort of cooperative competition like utopia. First the Wolverines were silenced, then the Widow Makers, then the Mongoose ... then the Burrocks were a bunch of jerks.
Well played Kerensky, well played.
I wonder how NK really thought or wanted things to turn out.
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That one always got to me, but then again I kept trying to look thru that lens with some sort of cooperative competition like utopia. First the Wolverines were silenced, then the Widow Makers, then the Mongoose ... then the Burrocks were a bunch of jerks.
Well played Kerensky, well played.
I wonder how NK really thought or wanted things to turn out.
Nicky K didn't think much about what would happen after he died. I think he though himself immortal. Or at least would have enough time to iron out the wrinkles in his plan. But Nicky K wasn't a moral man either. After discovering the Widowmakers were the perpetrators of a nuclear attack he still went ahead and allowed the wolverines destruction. He allowed a mini-genocide. He was insane and not a leader as many think he was.
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Is there a correlation with Devlin Stone here? ... "hey, I have this great plan" ... "well, I have the beginning of plan" ... "so what if I don't have any plan, I'm king of the world!"
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Is there a correlation with Devlin Stone here? ... "hey, I have this great plan" ... "well, I have the beginning of plan" ... "so what if I don't have any plan, I'm king of the world!"
I am, Devin Stone!
Have I lost my mind?
Can I see or am I blind?
Can I walk at all
Or if I move will I fall?
...
Heavy boots of lead
Fills my victims full of dread
Running as fast as they can
Devin Stone lives again
TT
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Did the Blood Spirit's ever have a dedicated engineer trinary units?
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Did the Blood Spirit's ever have a dedicated engineer trinary units?
Engineers are typically Techs and Labor Caste. The Clans barely recognise Artillery. Construction crews barely get a thought!
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Did the Blood Spirit's ever have a dedicated engineer trinary units?
dedicated? I really don't think so. Ad hoc and probably somewhat efficient and effective, they would not be considered legitimate targets imo.
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I know the Spirits were hardline orthodox about Cluster composition (due to Nicholas' decree), but thinking about engineer Trinaries has me thinking about how support units could avoid those restrictions. Would they be attached to Galaxies and be considered exempt from the normal unit structures? Or maybe, as suggested with the engineers, any support units would be non-combatants and therefore not warriors?
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In “Of War and Peace and Cherry Trees,” the Clan commander expressly describes his support train as civilian caste non-combatants, and is shocked and outraged when DCMS forces ambush the convoy and massacre them.
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About the closest Engineers might come to being warriors is being full of Elementals who washed out into the laborer or tech castes. Spirits though did teach there lower castes to fight if needed so I can see them having issued weapons. Machine Guns, man portable small lasers.
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About the closest Engineers might come to being warriors is being full of Elementals who washed out into the laborer or tech castes. Spirits though did teach there lower castes to fight if needed so I can see them having issued weapons. Machine Guns, man portable small lasers.
Well we kinda did on Haven and Honor. When the Stone Lions (Coyotes Maybe?) tried to trial for an enclave, we went ballistic and armed the lower caste with Mauser IICs (that may be someone's exaggeration) and swarmed the invaders. I'd have to reread WoR, but the invaders went back to the homeworlds, told the Adders, then they showed up and just used orbital strikes.
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Well we kinda did on Haven and Honor. When the Stone Lions (Coyotes Maybe?) tried to trial for an enclave, we went ballistic and armed the lower caste with Mauser IICs (that may be someone's exaggeration) and swarmed the invaders. I'd have to reread WoR, but the invaders went back to the homeworlds, told the Adders, then they showed up and just used orbital strikes.
Never underestimate human waves of armed civvies with the Mauser IIc!
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Never underestimate human waves of armed civvies with the Mauser IIc!
I just send a MadCat to take care of them. Then it becomes a game of 'Cat and Mauser.
I'll show myself out....
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Just a question: in the Operation Klondike book the short description of the Spirits states that every member of the Spirits gets military ttraining. Does that mean each caste has basic military training (including the freeborns)? Is this like a draft (something the Clans usually don't have) like the Rim Worlds did in preparation for war with the Star League? That would at least explain how the Spiritts can arm their civilians and achieve some form of success. When everyone is at least trained in weapon handling you can at least assemble an organized if green milita.
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Just a question: in the Operation Klondike book the short description of the Spirits states that every member of the Spirits gets military ttraining. Does that mean each caste has basic military training (including the freeborns)? Is this like a draft (something the Clans usually don't have) like the Rim Worlds did in preparation for war with the Star League? That would at least explain how the Spiritts can arm their civilians and achieve some form of success. When everyone is at least trained in weapon handling you can at least assemble an organized if green milita.
Part of each castes training includes familizaration with arms and basic equipment. Probably under the leadership of washed out or downgraded warrior caste. Enough that they should be usable as regular infantry or even using some basic vehicles.
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Blood Spirits were always one of the most alien cultures out there so it tracks a ton of people were like "hey this thing is neat, I want more!" I used to see a lot of people writing Blood Spirit and Cloud Cobra fan fiction, roleplays, etc back in the day. It'd be awesome to get more stories fleshed out in the 3025-3060 eras so we could hear more about Blood Spirit and the other clans.
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Blood Spirits were always one of the most alien cultures out there so it tracks a ton of people were like "hey this thing is neat, I want more!" I used to see a lot of people writing Blood Spirit and Cloud Cobra fan fiction, roleplays, etc back in the day. It'd be awesome to get more stories fleshed out in the 3025-3060 eras so we could hear more about Blood Spirit and the other clans.
Can you point to any particular spirits fan fic to explore?
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Can you point to any particular spirits fan fic to explore?
Oh boy I wish I could but this was 10 maybe 15 years ago my man haha. Maybe a bit more actually? There were some VERY good ones. The same author did some Cloud Cobra books too, he/she had a real penchant for the more mysterious and alien clans.
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Oh boy I wish I could but this was 10 maybe 15 years ago my man haha. Maybe a bit more actually? There were some VERY good ones. The same author did some Cloud Cobra books too, he/she had a real penchant for the more mysterious and alien clans.
Dang it that sounds great
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Blood Spirits really needed some good fiction written for them in universe. We got a few good ones set during Klondike I believe. But a book set during the Burrock Absorbtion or during the War of Reaving would have been great.
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Blood Spirits really needed some good fiction written for them in universe. We got a few good ones set during Klondike I believe. But a book set during the Burrock Absorbtion or during the War of Reaving would have been great.
Would have been depressing! The Wolverines at least had a solid escape plan. The Blood Spirits never seemed to stop believing in inter-Clan Society or that being right mattered.
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Would have been depressing! The Wolverines at least had a solid escape plan. The Blood Spirits never seemed to stop believing in inter-Clan Society or that being right mattered.
agreed. It would have been like watching ST Enterprise, cool cast, ok story ... but every story Arc was them barely getting by, only this time the end is the end.
CBS should go the BSG path ... CBS find clues left behind by CW and a ragtag group of Warriors and other castes make their way to find them (and have them not be WoB). I love that the initials really make this post bizarre.
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I always liked the idea the Blood Spirits had other colonys hidden away. And by the period where the Inner Sphere had lost contact with the Homeworlds the BS's were elsewhere rebuilding for there eventual revenge.
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I always liked the idea the Blood Spirits had other colonys hidden away. And by the period where the Inner Sphere had lost contact with the Homeworlds the BS's were elsewhere rebuilding for there eventual revenge.
Or taking their isolation to a whole new level, either way the legacy of the Blood Spirits does not become a footnote of the Clans.
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I could see that as well. Moving so far out into the Periphery that the Homeworld Clans would never find them while they rebuilt.
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Man, I always feel like I'm late to the party when it comes to liking something. And I feel like Spirits aren't going to magically pull a Jaguar out of nowhere either. No point in asking if anyone even survived then.
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The most any annihilated clan can hope for is several bloodnames have a resurgence and somehow get enough firepower together to bring back the name ... like claiming the original VW Bug and the new are really the same car. They really aren't. (but that new feature of "heat" is very good to have).
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Dont forget one of the Dark Age novels hinted at Blood Spirits inside the RoTS. And the attackers of the HPG's had a variation of the Blood Spirit logo. So there is some tiny hope.
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Dont forget one of the Dark Age novels hinted at Blood Spirits inside the RoTS. And the attackers of the HPG's had a variation of the Blood Spirit logo. So there is some tiny hope.
Do you remember which book makes the reference? If you don’t remember I understand.
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Blood Avatar by Ilsa J Bick hinted at the Bood Spirits through a Blood Spirit bloodname. One Sourcebook had Green Ghosts sporting Blood Spirit colors, and honestly I think the Era Digest: Dark Age or Era Report: 3145 as well as one other early novel described the HPG attackers logo which incorporated the Blood Spirit logo into the design. Something like 'The sole piece of identifying information was a strange insignia worn by some of the attackers: a snake coiled around a sword and set against a blood-red disk'
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Blood Avatar by Ilsa J Bick hinted at the Bood Spirits through a Blood Spirit bloodname. One Sourcebook had Green Ghosts sporting Blood Spirit colors, and honestly I think the Era Digest: Dark Age or Era Report: 3145 as well as one other early novel described the HPG attackers logo which incorporated the Blood Spirit logo into the design. Something like 'The sole piece of identifying information was a strange insignia worn by some of the attackers: a snake coiled around a sword and set against a blood-red disk'
Thanks for the information hopefully they get more attention and not become a plot hole.
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Thanks for the information hopefully they get more attention and not become a plot hole.
Honestly I think even the writers have forgotten a lot of the early Dark Age plot points. They havent revisited them in quite some time and have even contradicted a few as well including the very nature of a lot of Gray Monday.
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That red herring wasn't forgotten.
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Something like 'The sole piece of identifying information was a strange insignia worn by some of the attackers: a snake coiled around a sword and set against a blood-red disk'
None of this sounds like the Blood Spirit emblem though.
And I can't see any Blood Spirit successor/refugee group using any kind of snake symbolism.
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None of this sounds like the Blood Spirit emblem though.
And I can't see any Blood Spirit successor/refugee group using any kind of snake symbolism.
From what I understand the original winners of the WoR were the Blood Spirits, Star Adders, and the Steel Vipers. The red disk was supposed to represent them. Believe Ben Rome put out a blog on the 'original' WoR ending.
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That red herring wasn't forgotten.
Anytime someone says that I remember the movie Clue.
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From what I understand the original winners of the WoR were the Blood Spirits, Star Adders, and the Steel Vipers. The red disk was supposed to represent them. Believe Ben Rome put out a blog on the 'original' WoR ending.
Huh, never heard this before, it was all during my long time away from the "universe." Have a very hard time believing any scenario where the Blood Spirits team up with the Star Adders.
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And thus the legend of Clan Steel Bladder was born...
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Huh, never heard this before, it was all during my long time away from the "universe." Have a very hard time believing any scenario where the Blood Spirits team up with the Star Adders.
If they managed to “disappear” from the Homeworld Clans and create their own society similar to the Goliath Scorpions that may be considered a win.
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I'd say it's more likely feasible for them to go to ground and hide somewhere like the Wolverines. Surviving is a victory itself when everyone wants you and your name erased.
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I think they left the Spirits plotline open enough that they can be revisited at any point and claim there survival in some form or another.
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It's certainly without complete, absolute, unchangeable finality and therefore could happen - but it isn't going to happen.
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Well, anything that survived would be considered bandits; the Blood Spirits were technically absorbed by the Adders.
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Well, anything that survived would be considered bandits; the Blood Spirits were technically absorbed by the Adders.
They said the same of the Smoke Jaguars once.
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What is dead may never die.
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Except the Blood Spirits. They're dead dead.
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Jaguars got fanserviced, Spirits got Squated.
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They said the same of the Smoke Jaguars once.
Maybe if the Star League had stuck around, they'd have had a better claim.
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Jaguars got fanserviced, Spirits got Squated.
Sigh sadly true
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Sigh sadly true
I for one hold out hope. Hope springs eternal.
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Squated? ???
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Combo of squashed and swatted?
Squated? ???
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I admit that I kind of like the term "squashed" as an analogue to the pro wrestling term "squash match" (a one-sided contest meant only to build up the victor, usually a physically intimidating heel, as a badass for later storylines) but I'm not sure it would necessarily apply here.
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No. It comes from Warhammer 40k.
Squats were space dwarves. Then all of a sudden they were removed from the universe after 2nd edition (I think). They simply ceased to exist and were never mentioned again.
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No. It comes from Warhammer 40k.
Squats were space dwarves. Then all of a sudden they were removed from the universe after 2nd edition (I think). They simply ceased to exist and were never mentioned again.
Oh, I think I vaguely remember hearing of that.
Wasn't that basically just a retcon though? There wasn't any in-universe explanation for where they went or how they were destroyed?
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Oh, I think I vaguely remember hearing of that.
Wasn't that basically just a retcon though? There wasn't any in-universe explanation for where they went or how they were destroyed?
It was just before my time, and I started playing 40k when I was 8 ;D
So this is all based on reading from after (1999 and on)
Yeah, more or less. But like here in BT there aren’t a ton of fiat retcons without some explanation. Like we can see how the 3SW mechs are impossible to build anymore thing changed. There is nothing like that for squats in 40k. They just disappeared. (All wrong upon more current reading)
And looking again they still exist in universe. They just aren’t supported in the main games (they are in small skirmish game necromunda sort of). So it’s like there is no War of Reaving to explain why they disappeared. Catalyst has said they are going to focus on the factions in the IS and have vague future plans for the Home Clans. So there is something to look forward to there, or you can just playing in a time they still exist. The squats just stopped being supported and disappeared aside from small tidbits in the lore with limited explanation.
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It's funny you mention the Squats. GW last year added a Squat character to Necromunda as a Bounty Hunter.
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I for one hold out hope. Hope springs eternal.
Same! But no spirit unit that we know of remained even remotely intact?
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I hate to use this mental image, but if any of have survived on either planet we will have probably gone all "Lord of the Flies". 8)
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Same! But no spirit unit that we know of remained even remotely intact?
Intact? No. Dropped off the map? Yes. For one the Blood Guard Keshik never was reported destroyed. Though honestly they probably were during the Steel Viper Annihilation. There may be other units. I like to think that the Blood Spirits search for a Fallback didn't stop with the Colleen System.
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The only thing really needed for the Blood Spirits to have survived is for the Diamond Shark Watch to not be omniscient.
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Yeah, Squats got removed and the de facto explanation was... Tyranids destroying them? There were two attempts to bring space dwarves back in the form of a trade consortium who deals with Tau and Human black market stuff and then the bounty hunter you mentioned.
It's not exactly similar, Blood Spirits were explained in a totally not biased and one sided report by clan members who were jettisoned from the Homeworlds, but they at least have an in depth reason to their destruction. Squats were primarily handwaived and discontinued without reason other than contrived product shift and everyone hated it. It's still possible Blood Spirit stragglers survived and can come back. Or we can have another excuse like the smoked kittens and find out the Adders had them reconstituted following basic filler reason Charlie III. Which is nice, because an isolationist group who is self sufficient and who trains its civilians for defense is a lot more interesting than waiving Space Marine levels of plot armor around as Wolves. I have the same hope that the Rasalhagians will reinvigorate itself outside of the Bears or the Marians will stop being a primitech meme.
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Intact? No. Dropped off the map? Yes. For one the Blood Guard Keshik never was reported destroyed. Though honestly they probably were during the Steel Viper Annihilation. There may be other units. I like to think that the Blood Spirits search for a Fallback didn't stop with the Colleen System.
Destroyed in the Steel Viper Annihilation is very likely. Page 150 of Wars of Reaving says the Spirits lost almost half their attacking force in the landings on New Kent. Page 154 says by the end of the Viper Annihilation the touman was in shambles. The next page says that duty on Strana Mechty became not an honor, but viewed as punishment. Eventually only solahma were assigned there. Strana Mechty was the traditional assignment location for the Blood Guard Keshik as far back as the assignment table in FM Crusader Clans and repeated in FM Updates. The entry in FM:U said that even the constant siege & fighting on York was not enough to reassign them.
All of these taken together I think says the Blood Guard Keshik was lost in the landings on New Kent. But it's not official
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Most unfortunate.
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Destroyed in the Steel Viper Annihilation is very likely. Page 150 of Wars of Reaving says the Spirits lost almost half their attacking force in the landings on New Kent. Page 154 says by the end of the Viper Annihilation the touman was in shambles. The next page says that duty on Strana Mechty became not an honor, but viewed as punishment. Eventually only solahma were assigned there. Strana Mechty was the traditional assignment location for the Blood Guard Keshik as far back as the assignment table in FM Crusader Clans and repeated in FM Updates. The entry in FM:U said that even the constant siege & fighting on York was not enough to reassign them.
All of these taken together I think says the Blood Guard Keshik was lost in the landings on New Kent. But it's not official
The issue is was this was the Khans personal Keshik. You would think they would have gotten a mention of some sort of being destroyed.
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The issue is was this was the Khans personal Keshik. You would think they would have gotten a mention of some sort of being destroyed.
While I agree with you in spirit, I'm pretty sure there were multiple units better known than the Blood Guard Keshik during the Jihad era that were ruled destroyed by TPTB going "Oh, we forgot they were there, guess they're dead."
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The Blood Spirits died by bleeding inches starting with the Burrock Adsorption campaign. It was glorious and thorough (and don't think it's reaching that if half the surviving touman died as shock troops in a combat drop in the Viper annihilation, a number of commands died too and listing them all would be pedantic from an editorial viewpoint). I'd read anything that covered it (and I believe I have, except if there was something included in the "Mechs from Heaven" scenario, which I only know from hearsay*) but it would also be fantastically depressing.
*Bear in mind the hearsay is pretty good; it's supposed to be a scenario that covers the incident when the Diamond Sharks lost a Potemkin group making one last supply run to the Blood Spirits; the ship was destroyed, the dropships had to run the Star Adder blockade, and the cargo got scattered on York?
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One other thing that stands out that might show some of the Blood Spirits survived. In the WoR books as a Clan is destroyed there logos on the side of the page is removed. Only three Clans do not have them removed. The Wolverines gets covered in rubble, the Burrocks gets shattered, and the Blood Spirits which is shot up and marred but still visible.
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One other thing that stands out that might show some of the Blood Spirits survived. In the WoR books as a Clan is destroyed there logos on the side of the page is removed. Only three Clans do not have them removed. The Wolverines gets covered in rubble, the Burrocks gets shattered, and the Blood Spirits which is shot up and marred but still visible.
I agree with this but also wonder if that may have been due to plans that may never surface. It has been about ten years since WoR came out, after all. Lots of things have changed.
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I agree with this but also wonder if that may have been due to plans that may never surface. It has been about ten years since WoR came out, after all. Lots of things have changed.
Also true. But in the last ten years the Homeworld Clans have gotten little exploration. Who knows what could be planned or was planned?
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We can do ourselves a favor and stop talking about the Homies. That's the only way for them to come back to terrorize the IlClan.
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We can do ourselves a favor and stop talking about the Homies. That's the only way for them to come back to terrorize the IlClan.
Whatever we say won't mean a thing. TPTB have there own plans no matter what we talk about.
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Yeah, that's true. I just hope they return as much as anyone else.
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Yeah, that's true. I just hope they return as much as anyone else.
Honestly I dont think we will see them for a while. The Inner Sphere is in too much turmoil in the 3150 era to look outward and the Homeworlds are too leary of outside contact to make contact with the Inner Sphere. I think the only contact will be indirect through the Scorpions.
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I can see the ilClan getting into an internal frenzy, needing help asking the IS Clans to resolve issue, but get caught up in a Homie Invasion 2.0 and somewhere there's another outbreak of WoB or clone of the Reaving / Jihad.
CGL has stated that Warships are out, and the few left have been converted. BUT, those that are left have severe cases of flaws : KF-drive damaged, Structural damages, not enough Ammo for NACs, Collar damage or worse, not enough Aerospace personnel.
Meaning Pock Warships aka Assault Droppers, Combat Jumpships w/o Sub-lights and whole lotta of ASFs!
TT
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I can see the ilClan getting into an internal frenzy, needing help asking the IS Clans to resolve issue, but get caught up in a Homie Invasion 2.0 and somewhere there's another outbreak of WoB or clone of the Reaving / Jihad.
CGL has stated that Warships are out, and the few left have been converted. BUT, those that are left have severe cases of flaws : KF-drive damaged, Structural damages, not enough Ammo for NACs, Collar damage or worse, not enough Aerospace personnel.
Meaning Pock Warships aka Assault Droppers, Combat Jumpships w/o Sub-lights and whole lotta of ASFs!
TT
Nothing has happened to the ravens naval power. They aren’t running out of ammo. Between the massive yard the ghost bears have and the ravens active big yards. Plus whatever clan Wolf takes from terra. There is no way.
A warship shortage forsure. But ammo or repairs is silly. Bears and ravens are building/just finished the leviathan III.
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OK...
Lets play Warship:
Ravens
2x Cameron
1x Conqueror
1xCongress
2x Whirlwind
1x Vincent Mk. 42
1x Conqueror
1x Thera
1x Sovetskii Soyuz
1x Aegis
1x Nightlord
2x Essex
1x Fredasa
2x Potemkin
Bears
1x Leviathan II
2x Carrack
Not saying this is impressive for the Ravens, but... they have to protect their interests, I'm not seeing full deployment here, maybe a Single Naval Star, at best. Things would have to be going badly for them to deploy Conqueror Star, I can see more Ice Storm and Alliance with Eden being deployed more than all three together.
Da Bears would most likely help, and maybe cooperate with the Horses, but the others would go as is and try to beat them by themselves, damn the RoTs and treaties. It'll be another WoR 2.0, but worse.
Trials of Annihilation any one?
TT
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Listing one “side”, leaving off the super warship Lev III, and saying it can’t be done doesn’t really do anything for anyone.
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TT may be right. The Ravens have had their fleet sidelined, destroyed en masse, badly damaged, short of personnel, mothballed, etc. For the purposes of 'Mech-focused story, it makes sense to hamstring the Ravens' fleet, however silly it seemed at times. Only recently in the timeline have they been able to field their ships, if only to give back their raison d'être nominally without the fleet actually doing anything ever.
So, certainly Clan WarShips will rarely appear in conflicts with Inner Sphere powers. It's too big of a power disparity. But, if as TT suggests, the Home Clans invade, it offers an opportunities for Clan WarShips to actually do something (i.e., mutual destruction with Home Clan fleets).
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Lev III is a hanger queen...
Your not going to use her unless it's ALL or Nothing!
Bears are stupid, but not that stupid, to use their pride and joy flagship in anything but a final, and disparate, move.
TT
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Feels like I'm really late posting this, but iirc, there is no mention in WoR sourcebook of what exactly were the Spirits doing in Colleen between 3076, and 3082. Granted, that's not a lot of time, when you have to build everything from scratch, but hey - Sharks knew about Colleen - possibliy the only ones besides Spirits who knew - trading might not have been out of the question. We know the spirits at the very least managed to build a Crimson Langur factory, and 3 protomech factories (presumably for cecerops, chrysaor, and delphyne).
Most importantly, though, getting decimated by the Vipers, and then Adders bombing York may have been the impulse that the spirits needed to realise, that the game has changed. And when in the past, being a clan with not much worth fighting over meant they were generally left alone, now their enemies might kill them simply out of spite. That, and their continued faliure to make any progress in the clan council (except making friends with Cobras), as well as having some possible friends outside the homeworlds (Ravens, and possibly Sharks) may have prompted the clan to seek sanctuary somwhere besides Colleen. At any rate - if they knew that other clans would be gunning for them as soon as they found Colleen, rebuilding their touman would have been top priority, and that doesn't seem to match what was happening. And why keep using the gene labs on Strana Mechty? If they moved the repository to their new home, why not get the labs running there? Could it be that they were setting up gene labs somwhere else?
And the dropships trying to flee the system. Flee where? And more importantly - how. Dropships aren't jump-capable, so unless they were trying to randezvous with some hidden jumpship, that doesn't make sense. Unless it was a ruse, and they had another dropship, or two (bought from the sharks?) squirreled away and sacrificed some as a smoke screen.
The biggest hole in my wishful thinking is that if they did get help from the Ravens/Sharks in escaping Colleen, then by 3150, they'd have had at least 65 years of living in isolation - quite enough time to rebuild, and make contact again, at least with Scorpions/Ravens, so if any did survive, they'd be resurfacing right about now.
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I like where you went with all of that!
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I like it, one can hope after all.
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A plot hole that you can fly a starship through. Great observation and once again a clan that can return back from the grave.
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Been saying the Spirits may have had other colonys for years. I honestly doubt they would have put all the eggs in one basket. But thinking about that any colonys may have been just worlds for mining or growing food for export to the Colleen System. Support worlds. If they had a garrison they might have been only a Star or two at most.
Or they went crazy and built a new version of York somewhere with large factories and a population to support a new build up. Heck, the Blood Spirits may have sent a cutting of the Clan to play Wolf in Exile elsewhere. Gone and dound unclaimed warships from a cache and left. I recently noticed the Kerensky had Monsoons and Farraguts in the Exodus Fleet and there are even unknown number of Mckennas left unaccounted for. I could see the Blood Spirits going full on Battlestar Galactica.
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It would be an interesting background.
However, I think if the Spirits would have Monsoons, Farraguts and or McKenna battleships they would not have gone Exodus, they would have attacked the Adders full force.
I can hardly think of the Spirits running away.
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And the dropships trying to flee the system. Flee where?
I think that at the time the book was written this little detail was leaving the door open for a possible return of the Clan. In Ben Rome's first plot draft the Spirits formed part of the Triumvirate (also mentioned in the novel Blood Avatar) that was purported to be behind Grey Monday in the Dark Age. That plot was not included in the final version, and given that simple Blakist sleeper cells are now said to have been responsible for Grey Monday I think it's dubious that the current devs would see any need for the Spirits to come back.
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Did the Clan Blood Spirit send any warriors with Wolf's Dragoons in 3005
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No. But an abtakha warrior named Sumner Johns was with Phelan during the formation of Wolf in Exile. Look him up on Sarna. Interesting Blood Spirit character. He presumably dies in his ASF during the actual evac from the OZ's.
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The real question is did the Spirits or other Clans go along with the Wolves after there first Supply Run back to the Homeworlds.
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The real question is did the Spirits or other Clans go along with the Wolves after there first Supply Run back to the Homeworlds.
I belive a few Goliath Scorpions did and never returned but no other Clanners as it was entirely Wolves apart from like a bare handful of Scorpions.
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I smell some fan fic! lol.
Would have liked to see a rescue run from the SF/DS. Even if we only existed as a specialist unit ...
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During the period the Wolf Dragoons were operating the Blood Spirits werent overly active in Homeworld politics. But I wonder if the Wolves went to the Spirits for older Star League era Mechs and Armor and equipment? Heaven knows none of the other Clans would have had any in use during that period.
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The Clans mothballed old Star League mechs in Brian caches. There were plenty in there - the Wolves and Falcons later used them to rebuild several garrison Clusters after the Refusal War. There were even still caches left at the time of the Wars of Reaving, the contents reactivated and put into the field by both the Clans and the Society.
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Wow, looking at the Minsk and I swear it would be the perfect mech for the Spirits to have adopted after the Bears stopped using them.
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There are some solid designs I think the Spirits could have maintained ... but it's like having an Atari 2600, it wears out and no one was making any replacement parts (pest controller EVER, that one button joystick).
Our BS infrastructure to build and maintain mechs was kinda BS I guess.
fwiw a lot of L1 designs with swapped out weapons (extra tonnage to SHS and armor) would have made decent designs too ... especially if you look at it from meta BV2 standpoint. From a campaign view, we probably would have still ended up coming up short.
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There are some solid designs I think the Spirits could have maintained ... but it's like having an Atari 2600, it wears out and no one was making any replacement parts.
While true the issue is that both the Inner Sphere and the Clans both maintained mechs for hundreds of years at a time and the Spirits kept the SL tech base relatively intact. It wasnt a issue of losing the equipment like a Gauss Rifle but more of a issue of the expense of producing the Gauss Rifle or the trade to get the Rifle.
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... the issue is that both the Inner Sphere and the Clans both maintained mechs for hundreds of years ...
ach good point.
Maybe it came to game of Risk (a BIG game, with 20 players!), and for some reason a bunch of groups went after each other and just whittled each other down consistently :-[ ... like when your friends gang up on you b/c you roll 6's a lot ... then the one friend manged to hold back and take everybody at the last moment.
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ach good point.
Maybe it came to game of Risk (a BIG game, with 20 players!), and for some reason a bunch of groups went after each other and just whittled each other down consistently :-[ ... like when your friends gang up on you b/c you roll 6's a lot ... then the one friend manged to hold back and take everybody at the last moment.
Pretty much what happened to the Spirits. They helped out every Clan early on only to have most turn on them for various reasons. A few did help out later on but it was too late by that point. But back on point, the Minsk I think would have been a design the Spurits might have trialed for or traded for when the Bears stopped using them. I could see the trade with the Snow Ravens netting the Spurits a few as well. The design would fit well in a Blood Spirit unit. Hard hitting and tough with a tech mix that makes some aspects easier to mantain.
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3 Blood Kites, 2 Minsk ... team work over duels, very nice punisher unit.
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3 Blood Kites, 2 Minsk ... team work over duels, very nice punisher unit.
It's a pretty nasty punisher Star. Only bad part is there not Omni's and cant add Elemental support for extra armor...I mean to carry into a fight!
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Order received, Star Colonel. Five loaded Svantovits are inbound!
Anhurs would work too.
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It would be an interesting background.
However, I think if the Spirits would have Monsoons, Farraguts and or McKenna battleships they would not have gone Exodus, they would have attacked the Adders full force.
I can hardly think of the Spirits running away.
I want to preface this by saying I have have THREE farragut models one of which I have earmarked as my original spirits flagship. Having said that the level of hate the spirits had I feel only increased over time so I gotta think any warships of that caliber would have been used.
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I want to preface this by saying I have have THREE farragut models one of which I have earmarked as my original spirits flagship. Having said that the level of hate the spirits had I feel only increased over time so I gotta think any warships of that caliber would have been used.
Honestly I think if the Spirits did have a Battleship at any point it was traded to the Ravens. No, I think the Spirits original Flagship wasnt a Battleship at all but something more symbolic. A Cameron perhaps.
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Order received, Star Colonel. Five loaded Svantovits are inbound!
Anhurs would work too.
Ugh...
Badger C tracked better...
Or go old school and equip with a Point of Saladin C!
TT
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3 Blood Kites, 2 Minsk ... team work over duels, very nice punisher unit.
I think I will put my Minsk into my blood guard keshik that seems like a good place for a bodyguard unit!
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The Badger is ... much slower, but I love its design
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Minsk came in on saturday. Thinking of the Beta Galaxy scheme for it. Already have a Trinary for Alpha, Tau, and the Blood Guard Keshik. So maybe its Beta's turn?
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Minsk came in on saturday. Thinking of the Beta Galaxy scheme for it. Already have a Trinary for Alpha, Tau, and the Blood Guard Keshik. So maybe its Beta's turn?
Glad to hear it! What scheme do you use for your beta spirits?
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Glad to hear it! What scheme do you use for your beta spirits?
For now I'm gonna use this. At least I will until someone canonized a scheme on Camospecs.
https://unitcolorcompendium.com/2019/01/26/beta-galaxy-2/
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I like that scheme.
I'd even go as far to swap out grey for deep jet black ...
but, I can't paint! :D (well, can but when they say basic, they mean me)
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I like that scheme.
I'd even go as far to swap out grey for deep jet black ...
but, I can't paint! :D (well, can but when they say basic, they mean me)
I'm sure you paint just fine.
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I like that scheme.
I'd even go as far to swap out grey for deep jet black ...
but, I can't paint! :D (well, can but when they say basic, they mean me)
I love the scene but it’s similar to other schemes would a bronze highlight be too flashy?
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I love the scene but it’s similar to other schemes would a bronze highlight be too flashy?
I dont think it would. It's your universe!
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parade color bronze, or dirty field worthy bronze? ... both would be awesome and not to flashy!
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parade color bronze, or dirty field worthy bronze? ... both would be awesome and not to flashy!
Blood Spirits are proud. Go with parade color bronze.
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Blood Spurits are proud. Go with parade color bronze.
Yes! I do feel like the spirits are Uber proud of being who they are
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Yes! I do feel like the spirits are Uber proud of being who they are
Yup, they would be polishing like crazy and have the Techs do it if there too busy. Probably would even come up with a reason for the accents. The more the higher in rank or such.
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looking over my KS loot (one of each plus salvage stuff).
Did the Nightstar make it on to the exodus? It was released at the end of the Amaris Civil War, right? ... if so, I think I want it to be a BS Mech ... simple weapons upgrade (even if using 'improved' versions and an enhanced ER PPC). MML here I come to check it out!
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looking over my KS loot (one of each plus salvage stuff).
Did the Nightstar make it on to the exodus? It was released at the end of the Amaris Civil War, right? ... if so, I think I want it to be a BS Mech ... simple weapons upgrade (even if using 'improved' versions and an enhanced ER PPC). MML here I come to check it out!
A few I think probably did. The question would be if they survived the early years of the Clans and the various Pentagon Wars that proceeded the formation of the Clans. If any did they would have had a place in the early Clans forces during Klondike.
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A few I think probably did. The question would be if they survived the early years of the Clans and the various Pentagon Wars that proceeded the formation of the Clans. If any did they would have had a place in the early Clans forces during Klondike.
One of my favorite things about the blood spirits is that you can always include old school designs like that pretty much no matter the era!
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One of my favorite things about the blood spirits is that you can always include old school designs like that pretty much no matter the era!
And something the Blood Spirits would do is upgrade SLDF designs to Clan Standards. Honestly I'm suprised we do not see more IIc versions of SLDF designs that the Blood Spirits would field over the years. The other Clans might look down on the use of upgraded SLDF designs but those upgraded designs would be no less deadly.
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in FM Crusader clans CBS still had original model SL era mechs in it ... I would totally upgrade those. Maybe go for the stop gap upgrade and use the Improved weapons from I.O. -- the improved SRMs are totally worth it, same weight, better range ... done. ACs are same as from the original TRO 3050, but that is still some mass savings for HS or more ammo. LRMs iirc got to half mass, but might have min range ... still a win. The improved Gauss rifle is only off by the clan standard by 1 ton iirc. Improved versions of PPC, LL, PLL are ok too.
Upping to full modern Clan standard weapons and armor would just make all these SL models just kick-ass. The IS XL engines might make them a bit more fragile though.
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looking over my KS loot (one of each plus salvage stuff).
Did the Nightstar make it on to the exodus? It was released at the end of the Amaris Civil War, right? ... if so, I think I want it to be a BS Mech ... simple weapons upgrade (even if using 'improved' versions and an enhanced ER PPC). MML here I come to check it out!
While digging through Sarna I came across this guy. A possible Clanner who came to the Inner Sphere in the Succession Wars. And in the Apocryphal section it mentions he had a Nighstar.
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Linky?
TT
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https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Nikolai_Mason
Sorry, thought I had included the link.
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sweeeeet.
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sweeeeet.
So at least the predecessor organization to the Wolf Dragoons had access to the Nightstar. The Dragoons themselves didnt field any though. So the Brian Caches probably were tapped out by that point with any surviving examples being in a Clans forces.
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you know the Scorps were itching to have one in their collection, too!
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you know the Scorps were itching to have one in their collection, too!
" Clan " Snord had scores of them before, you know, that happening.
Just saying...
TT
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" Clan " Snord had scores of them before, you know, that happening.
Just saying...
TT
Clan Snord probably got theres from a wrecked Castle Brian in the Inner Sphere.
Work on the Minsk just started but I had to put it off a bit so I could paint a No-Named Crab for a planned future game.
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So it's a Blue and Gold scheme is it...
^-^
TT
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So it's a Blue and Gold scheme is it...
^-^
TT
Blue, Gold, and White! Thinking of doing a game in the future of the first Wolf/Wolverine Trial for the cache in a jungle environment.
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Ooh...
Ultra Jungle hexs...
Swamp hexs...
Constant low level fog...
Sudden heavy rainfalls...
Yeah, done these before... :D
TT
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Ooh...
Ultra Jungle hexs...
Swamp hexs...
Constant low level fog...
Sudden heavy rainfalls...
Yeah, done these before... :D
TT
Dont forget the gas pockets!
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Glad to see this thread still going! I had taken a bit of a hiatus because, well, for a bit, things on the boards here were getting toxic(not necessarily any posts in particular, but I was having issues with getting angry at posts instead of having fun talking about BattleTech). Trying to get back in the Minotaur again..and finding this thread still somewhat active makes me happy.
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Glad to see this thread still going! I had taken a bit of a hiatus because, well, for a bit, things on the boards here were getting toxic(not necessarily any posts in particular, but I was having issues with getting angry at posts instead of having fun talking about BattleTech). Trying to get back in the Minotaur again..and finding this thread still somewhat active makes me happy.
I had wondered where you had gone. Welcome back!
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There's a familiar face! :thumbsup:
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You've successfully won your Trial of Relaxation warrior, but your clan requires more, have at it!
Welcome back you!
TT
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I'll bite ...
anyone else look at their comstar packs (if you got them) and think that they'd make perfect BS units? Especially if you did a simple weapons upgrade ... the Highlander, Flashman, umm umm others ... (supposed to be doing a virtual class atm, but zoom is kaput).
right! King Crab ... even if you went stop-gap-tech and chose some improved weapons from strat ops, you get some nice units.
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I bought a ComStar pack specifically for Clan secondline forces, although I've actually decided to use the Exterminator and Sentinel for an Outworlds Alliance lance. And yes, the King Crab is menacing!
Now thinking about picking up the other one as well. The Flashman alone might be worth it.
It's interesting to construct a Clan force that isn't simply OmniMechs. There's heaps of opportunity for character and story there. And of course, Clan Blood Spirit is the best fit for that theme. If you want to upgrade the 'Mechs with Clan weaponry, certain units can be used in the game to represent IIC models (Highlander IIC, anyone?).
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To bad we never see any stalkers in clan second line ... was it one of those that they decided did not make it out of the pentagon wars?
In my 'verse, I would totally use SHD/GRF/WLV as second line mechs. Pop some new weapons on them and go. Royal variants for more punch.
the clan ER ML is basically a one ton IS LL ... that by itself would turn a standard SHD into something more noticeable, at least to the IS.
Well, this could down a rabbit hole (by choice even!) ... just feel there is a lot we could do. Justification is easy, you just have a very rare mech(s) in your unit.
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Hm I still need to get my hands on a copy of The Wars of Reaving.
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To bad we never see any stalkers in clan second line ...
Wolf's Dragoons has a commander that uses a Stalker but with clan tech weapons.
TT
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Wolf's Dragoons has a commander that uses a Stalker but with clan tech weapons.
TT
STK-3F Stalker Jamison. It’s on Sarna. Freezers, ferro, and all Clan-grade weaponry. Easy to replicate by upgrading Stalkers from Brian Caches in the Homeworlds.
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Per MUL, the Royal Stalker 3Fb can be found in Clan Homeworlds, from the earliest times until the Jihad.
The Blood Spirits are likely to have some.
As to why it wasn't upgraded, the Marauder IIC and Warhammer IIC are likely culprits. There's little point in upgrading the Stalker too.
And perhaps the Stalker's intended purpose, a breakthrough 'Mech that uses increasing levels of firepower while slowly approaching the enemy, doesn't quite fit the typical Clan battle doctrines.
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Hm I still need to get my hands on a copy of The Wars of Reaving.
it is awesome and heart wrenching all in one.
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Per MUL, the Royal Stalker 3Fb can be found in Clan Homeworlds, from the earliest times until the Jihad.
The Blood Spirits are likely to have some.
As to why it wasn't upgraded, the Marauder IIC and Warhammer IIC are likely culprits. There's little point in upgrading the Stalker too.
And perhaps the Stalker's intended purpose, a breakthrough 'Mech that uses increasing levels of firepower while slowly approaching the enemy, doesn't quite fit the typical Clan battle doctrines.
Well then! ... even a straight weapons upgrade would make that thing more worthwhile! Just looked it up on Sarna, yeah some clan version weapons (and I have fascination with the stop gap improved clan weapons --- so I'd use improved LRM-20s w/A4FCS), keep the original ML or swap out two for some P SL and the other go to ER ML ... more DHS (either IS or C at this point) ... fun.
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Per MUL, the Royal Stalker 3Fb can be found in Clan Homeworlds, from the earliest times until the Jihad.
Good point. The 3Fb doesn’t mess with the 3F’s structure, engine, or armor. So it’s fairly straightforward to upgrade the 3Fb to the 3F Jamison. This assumes Jamison was piloting a design that originated with and was had more copies back in the Homeworlds, not a unique machine. The canon doesn’t state that. But it’s not an unreasonable assumption, either.
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Good point. The 3Fb doesn’t mess with the 3F’s structure, engine, or armor. So it’s fairly straightforward to upgrade the 3Fb to the 3F Jamison. This assumes Jamison was piloting a design that originated with and was had more copies back in the Homeworlds, not a unique machine. The canon doesn’t state that. But it’s not an unreasonable assumption, either.
Given Jamison variant intro date (3054), i would assume Jamison used to pilot stock Stalker but eventually upgraded the Stalker with ClanTech from Dragoon stores and factories.
Though it could be based on unseen Clan Stalker refit, just like the Wolf's Dragoons Archer seems to be based on the Summoner B.
Interestingly Star League-in-Exile had normal Stalkers with them too. Makes me wonder if all were either destroyed or upgraded to Royal standards. MUL indicates all Spheroid designs the Homeworld Clans retained ("HW Clan General") were Royals or stuff from TRO2750, i would assume those were deemed good enough and used as is. But would refitting (Stalkers or anything else) to Royal standards continue after the Clans were formed and ClanTech was around?
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My suspicion is that the Blood Kite was derived from the Stalker. SRMs, LRMs, and a 3rd ER Large Laser on place of the Stalkers's MLs would make sense, as would jump jets to help in dueling. A Clan upgrade of the Royal Stalker would be easy as well if you want to avoid copying J-Cube's unique Stalker. It's one of the more logical units for the Blood Spirits to upgrade, even with Artemis.
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My suspicion is that the Blood Kite was derived from the Stalker.
Doesn't share any components but mass with the Stalker. Usually derived 'Mechs seem to share at least something, looks if nothing else. The Blood Kite most certainly doesn't look like the Stalker ;D
"York XT" chassis might be connected to "Star League XT" which was used in the Highlander and Highlander IIC, later in Tai Sho, and Gunslinger by Spheroids. Original Stalker used "Titan H1". The Blood Kite's engine is without brand though the Clans have used Vlars and other such common engines, so the engine being a Strand 255 is not impossible.
EDIT Turns out, "York XT" is also used in Crimson Langur, and Crimson Hawk uses "York II XT".
Wait a sec, the old Banshee used "Star League XT" as well...
The Blood Kite is based on Khan Bogues' requirements: Low cost, durable, firepower, efficiency.
Since the Stalker was developed as the Reunification War was ending, it might have had similar requirements, so it would be just convergent design process. Those have happened several times in BT.
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copying/mimicking weapon load outs is easy peasy, too.
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right! King Crab ... even if you went stop-gap-tech and chose some improved weapons from strat ops, you get some nice units.
I can see some interesting things that could be done with a classic KGC with tech available to the Blood Spirits and matching the Blood Spirit's equipment doctrine.
Then again, I have done some interesting things with the Crocket, as well...I have a Crocket for a Bloodnamed Warrior that is terrifying to people, but, since writers
do look here, not going to talk about either here...
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If a Clan Tech cannot do a weapons swap on a Star League era Mech then he is either incompetent, lacks the weapons to swap,or doesn't have the time. Replacing a King Crabs weapons for Clan Tech ones shouldn't take very long at all.
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So, I dug up a couple old Blood Spirit Mechs I did 20 years ago. Also did up a new Stooping Hawk config based on one of them and posted it with one of the old designs down in the fan designs.
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did a "What if the Blood Spirits refitted the royal Shadow Hawks they may have?" Circa 3070
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/battlemechs/shadow-hawk-c-2/
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Looked at it, very effective design if used properly and makes use of the design that might have languished in storage.
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Found GreekFire's guide for ProtoMechs. Need to save a copy of that.
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If a Clan Tech cannot do a weapons swap on a Star League era Mech then he is either incompetent, lacks the weapons to swap,or doesn't have the time. Replacing a King Crabs weapons for Clan Tech ones shouldn't take very long at all.
Agreed. I would think the spirits would have had a lot of “
C” variants of star league mechs which soldiered on far longer Turkmen
In other clans. Which is why I love any new “ old “
Designs as I can place them into my spirits or Jaguar huntress garrison
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Agreed. I would think the spirits would have had a lot of “
C” variants of star league mechs which soldiered on far longer Turkmen
In other clans. Which is why I love any new “ old “
Designs as I can place them into my spirits or Jaguar huntress garrison
One of the fun things is Blood Spirits have access to Protomech ACs. The tonnage and ammo efficiency for the two PAC/8's compared to AC/20s makes those
remarkably good swaps. And, you can even swap 2 PAC/8s for AC/10s, and not lose much. And then, you would gain more ammo swapping out standard lasers
for Heavy lasers..Seriously: a Blood Spirit Retrofit Centurion "C" taking a CN-9A chassis would be kind of scary, even if it would be a significant upgrade just
because of swapping out the IS Single Heat sink standard engine for a Clan DHS engine..
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I'd keep SHS as much as possible, for flavor reasons mostly.
Well, once you start putting HLs on, different story. With that 9A ex. I'd keep the SHS. If one of the Med HLs is mounted aft, heat is a minor issue.
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Never was fond of the idea of mounting Proto weapons on a Battlemech. As crew served weapons for infantry? Yes but not on a mech.
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Never was fond of the idea of mounting Proto weapons on a Battlemech. As crew served weapons for infantry? Yes but not on a mech.
PAC/2 is actually respectable for her class. Good range, extremely light weight, access to specialty rounds (like precision rounds).
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sounds like a good vtol or hover weapon, esp on a lighter frame where 6 tons (c AC +ammo) is a tad to much. So, an extra 1.5 tons towards armor, engine, or equipment is good. [edit: whaaaat it reaches to 20 hexes? for 3.5 tons, well 4.5 w/ammo. take that LAC-2]
On my custom 15t quad, it would work nice (hmmm maybe w a mech turret too)
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Did a simple tweak on Donar Assault Helicopter in Fan Designs' combat vehicles board. Streak to *plain* launchers. (inferno capable? I know nothing!). So that it could get a mast mount and have a recon camera mounted on it. Could do a Light Active Probe instead of the camera.
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what type of vehcile/tanks do a Blood Spirit Trinary have looking to create one
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what type of vehcile/tanks do a Blood Spirit Trinary have looking to create one
Morrigu is one of there main tanks.
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The Shamash for speedy strikes and the Morrigu for fire support.
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Svantovit for elemental or infantry (two versions) transport.
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Some asking about tanks?
Blood Spirit's have access to Clan General, like everyone else, they also make use of the Bandit C, Badger C non omnitanks. Royal and non-Royal SLDF tanks as well.
So pick your Star's functions and crack open the TRO's.
Remember, most clans disdain the usage of waste, tanks are wastefulness but has their merits. Clan Blood Spirit uses them as supplemental forces.
If I was you, I'd pick two or more Points as the main force, adding in scouts or bodyguard units to fill out. Making a single Command a Nova is an excellent way of increasing your abilities. ( Fast Recon anyone? ) Also remember, clan tank stars fight as a single identity, there's no My point vs. yours here. It's all or nothing mentality. ( Hence the wastefulness )
TT
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Also dont forget a Clan point for armor is two tanks. Means a Star is actually ten tanks and not five.
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And while you're at it, make sure you fill in your blind spots...
ECM cuts off Artemis signals, AMS can kill a good missile salvo and LOS is a tankers best friend. As you can hide behind a Level 1 terrain feature and make it rain while your spotter is zooming from behind them for backshots.
TT
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thanks for the info
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Anytime...
Also what functions do you want to explore?
Fire Support
Scout
Command
Defense
General
For instance:
Fire Support:
2x Zorya Tanks
2x Zorya Tanks
2x Badger C-C w/ Clan Assault Infantry
2x Badger C-C w/ Clan Assault Infantry
2x Oro w/ Fast Recon
Scout:
2x Shamash w/ Fast Recon
2x Bandit C-A w/ Elemental
2x Bandit C-B w/ Elemental
2x Epona A
2x Epona C
Defense:
2x Mars XL
2x Mars XL
2x Kokou XL
2x Ishtar
2x Royal Von Luckner
Command:
2x Mars
2x Kokou
2x Huitzilopochtli
2x Huitzilopochtli
2x Asshur
And such..
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Well I finally got to use the Blood Spirit Minsk in combat. Very nasty and would have dominated pretty much any duel it got in. My opponent broke Clan Honor and used massed fire to kill it. And it died to a hit to the Ammo Bins and a hit to the Gauss Rifle. Not cored out.
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Well I finally got to use the Blood Spirit Minsk in combat. Very nasty and would have dominated pretty much any duel it got in. My opponent broke Clan Honor and used massed fire to kill it. And it died to a hit to the Ammo Bins and a hit to the Gauss Rifle. Not cored out.
Thanks for the update ! Do you have a finished model
We can see?
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Thanks for the update ! Do you have a finished model
We can see?
I'd love to post a pic. But i have no clue how to make it small enough. They always end up huge on the forums.
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You can shrink the size using a paint program.
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Think this will work. My poor explody Minsk.
(https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/cp0/e15/q65/p75x225/272623950_3260718274173725_5805488786483280263_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=ca434c&efg=eyJpIjoiYiJ9&_nc_ohc=iv6WvgX_20YAX9NSB85&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=00_AT-tQEBdUKmbAn3ipYu8FwFzlTMetpdwNwftcOxwfvGNZg&oe=61F2BD90)
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Think this will work. My poor explody Minsk.
(https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/cp0/e15/q65/p75x225/272623950_3260718274173725_5805488786483280263_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=ca434c&efg=eyJpIjoiYiJ9&_nc_ohc=iv6WvgX_20YAX9NSB85&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=00_AT-tQEBdUKmbAn3ipYu8FwFzlTMetpdwNwftcOxwfvGNZg&oe=61F2BD90)
I love it! What unit blood guard?
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I love it! What unit blood guard?
Kind of going for this unit. Sadly my abilitys dont do it justice.
https://unitcolorcompendium.com/2019/01/26/rho-provisional-galaxy-2/
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Kind of going for this unit. Sadly my abilitys dont do it justice.
https://unitcolorcompendium.com/2019/01/26/rho-provisional-galaxy-2/
I think this would work for bringing it out:
So, Carroberg Crimson shade or Blood Angels Red Contrast over the red area, then drybrush Mephiston Red over all and Wazdakka Red on the highlights.
Arms go over with either nuln oil wash or Basilicanum Grey contrast, then dry brush adminstratum grey over all, and celestra gray for the highlights.
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I think this would work for bringing it out:
So, Carroberg Crimson shade or Blood Angels Red Contrast over the red area, then drybrush Mephiston Red over all and Wazdakka Red on the highlights.
Arms go over with either nuln oil wash or Basilicanum Grey contrast, then dry brush adminstratum grey over all, and celestra gray for the highlights.
I've ordered another Minsk and may try what you recommend with it.
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I've ordered another Minsk and may try what you recommend with it.
Oh...what I recommended was to shade and highlight the one you posted.
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Oh...what I recommended was to shade and highlight the one you posted.
Nah, its dullcoated and everything. Once I do that I consider a mini finished. I will just get another and add to my vast collection.
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Nah, its dullcoated and everything. Once I do that I consider a mini finished. I will just get another and add to my vast collection.
Adding to our collections as the good lord intended!
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Adding to our collections as the good lord intended!
Exactly! Never look back I say! More Blood Spirit Mechs for the IWM Gods!
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Adding to our collections as the good lordKerensky himself intended!
fixed that for you ... >:D
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fixed that for you ... >:D
As the spirits are clearly the one true clan ( which is why we are so hated!) well said sir
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I wonder, is there a Society cell or three still in Blood Spirits? I mean, they saw what happened to their cousins in the other clans and thought, " Yikes! Let's take it slower..."
Or are they effectively dead.
TT
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what type of aircraft light-medium and heavy assault does clan Blood Spirit use 2) do they use trinary or larger units during combat operations
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I wonder, is there a Society cell or three still in Blood Spirits? I mean, they saw what happened to their cousins in the other clans and thought, " Yikes! Let's take it slower..."
Or are they effectively dead.
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Society from Wars of Reavings yes. Blood Spirits I can see them surviving but we will never hear from them again. Some kind of Society splinter faction looking to end warrior dominance (and stupidity) yes.
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I wonder, is there a Society cell or three still in Blood Spirits? I mean, they saw what happened to their cousins in the other clans and thought, " Yikes! Let's take it slower..."
Or are they effectively dead.
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Honestly I see the Spirits doing the same as the Falcons and purging the scientist to a large degree. Any survivors would have kept there heads down and stayed quiet. I do believe any surviving Society forces will be found outside the Kerensky Cluster and on some small world rebuilding and in hiding.
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Could have sworn I read something about how the Spirits had tighter control or their scientist caste was really more with them, especially compared to other clans (let alone Coyotes).
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It never made sense to me that there would be Society cells amongst the Spirits, or at least not enough converts to matter. They're too isolated, too indoctrinated against the other Clans.
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See I see the Word still around, Comstar a shadow of itself, but still around and the Society a dead horse?
How the hell does this mean? The Blood is still around, and so is the GeneCaste...
But the Society? Nope. Dead and done... Really?
Cool, tell me another story please...
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See I see the Word still around, Comstar a shadow of itself, but still around and the Society a dead horse?
How the hell does this mean? The Blood is still around, and so is the GeneCaste...
But the Society? Nope. Dead and done... Really?
Cool, tell me another story please...
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Sure the Society and WoB knew about each other and were bitter enemies. The Word wasnt planning to invade Clan Homeworlds to destroy the Clans but to get rid of the Society!
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Stop reading my notes!
TT
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Stop reading my notes!
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Well you got to stop leaving them all over the place!
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See I see the Word still around, Comstar a shadow of itself, but still around and the Society a dead horse?
How the hell does this mean? The Blood is still around, and so is the GeneCaste...
But the Society? Nope. Dead and done... Really?
Cool, tell me another story please...
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Pretty sure they would have had some sort of escape plan. Not convinced they had anything but a token voice in the Blood Spirits.
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Pretty sure they would have had some sort of escape plan. Not convinced they had anything but a token voice in the Blood Spirits.
The Blood Spirits isolation and lack of resources probably made them the least likely Clan the Society would have infiltrated. Though I could see them looking at the Clans protomech research as valuable.
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I still think the most likely place for the Society to hang on is indeed outside the Kerensky Cluster.
With the Scorpions! But that's for another thread.
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Didn’t like WoR Supplemental or something talk about the likelihood of the Society being in each Clan? Like wasn’t there a clan (maybe Blood Spirits or Diamond Sharks) where the Society never made big inroads bc the clan wasn’t as hierarchical as others?
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Didn’t like WoR Supplemental or something talk about the likelihood of the Society being in each Clan? Like wasn’t there a clan (maybe Blood Spirits or Diamond Sharks) where the Society never made big inroads bc the clan wasn’t as hierarchical as others?
The Ghost Bears and Hells Horses had little to no Society presence due to the emphasis of family and working together.
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Spirits were among the "difficult to get a foot hold" clans iirc.
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Spirits were among the "difficult to get a foot hold" clans iirc.
Difficult to talk to, Trade with, meet up for a drink with...
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Difficult to talk to, Trade with, meet up for a drink with...
Ouch! :P
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Difficult to talk to, Trade with, meet up for a drink with...
(joking) I feel kinda attacked by this...Have I met you at a GenCon?
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(joking) I feel kinda attacked by this...Have I met you at a GenCon?
What's a GenCon? Isn't that a Terrain bazaar based in the month of August, where Clan Merchants meet and Falcons go to preen about themselves in public?
TT
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What's a GenCon? Isn't that a Terrain bazaar based in the month of August, where Clan Merchants meet and Falcons go to preen about themselves in public?
TT
Best description of GenCon i've ever heard.
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Did Clan Blood Spirit have much contact with Clan Ice Hellions, Hell HORSE,--MAYBE WOLVERINE IF STILL AROUND Falcon DIAMON SHARK. Working on a story line
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Did Clan Blood Spirit have much contact with Clan Ice Hellions, Hell HORSE,--MAYBE WOLVERINE IF STILL AROUND Falcon DIAMON SHARK. Working on a story line
One could reason that there was some trading with the Diamond Sharks, but even in that hypothetical the Spirits don't particularly have much to trade. The Blood Spirits' primary contacts were with the Cloud Cobras, Fire Mandrills, and Snow Ravens; however, other than their enemies, I suppose you could create any reason to interact with the other Clans. What would be limiting is the fact that the isolationist Blood Spirits had very little contact with the other Clans. I seem to recall that their Khans often went decades without attending Grand Council meetings.
I would estimate that any contact with the remnants of Clan Wolverine would be highly unlikely.
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There were the Ilchi (sp) ... basically, at the beginning CBS tried to foster brotherhood along with competition. CM and CB really took advantage of that. iirc in FM: Crusader Clans we reestablished the Ilchi position for some clans.
If you're going to rewrite some of the history, I think you need to hit at some big turning point. 1. Keep Khan Schmidt from going full Ice Hellion Temper-tantrum. 2. reroll the dice on the absorption war interference ... 2a. CB really fights CSA hard instead of rolling over ... 2b. CBS warriors reflect the skill they are usually attributed. 3 CBS doesn't suck wind at the Great Refusal, perhaps they actually know how to use the combined arms they base most of their clusters after ... maybe 2nd behind CHH. 4. Go way back, CBS supports CW along with a few other clans and call out NK for what he is doing --- somehow both clans survive and prosper-ish (a heck of a lot better than they did at least).
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Pre refusal war when the spirits had been in isolation how would spirit warriors get them selves noticed for blood name consideration? I recall some galaxies only experienced practice against other spirit units?
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The one Clan they might have made a meaningful connection to would have been the Ghost Bears. Sadly the WoR put paid to that.
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I wonder, is there a Society cell or three still in Blood Spirits? I mean, they saw what happened to their cousins in the other clans and thought, " Yikes! Let's take it slower..."
Or are they effectively dead.
TT
Kinda late but according to the IS Players 2 book it is to assumed that the society didn't infiltrate the Spirits as they are to hidebound to traditions. Which isn't to say that they tried and maybe managed to get some Spirit scientists into their ranks. Then again would you recruit scientists which at that time were basically located in a war zone as York was the only possesion and the Adders were using it as a shooting gallery?
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Kinda late but according to the IS Players 2 book it is to assumed that the society didn't infiltrate the Spirits as they are to hidebound to traditions. Which isn't to say that they tried and maybe managed to get some Spirit scientists into their ranks. Then again would you recruit scientists which at that time were basically located in a war zone as York was the only possesion and the Adders were using it as a shooting gallery?
The Spirits would have been of limited use to the Society. But you do have to wonder if the biggest reason the Society used Protomechs was that they had recruited Spirit Scientists for the task.
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Due to their surly and insular nature I imagine the society trying to work its way into the spirits would have looked like this:
https://youtu.be/7jaAeTaG_ms
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Does Clan Blood Spirit have a totem mech\
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Not so much, Blood Kite is our go to though.
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Does Clan Blood Spirit have a totem mech\
Did they ever trade the blood kite? Even to the mandrills?
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Did they ever trade the blood kite? Even to the mandrills?
I'm not sure, but the MUL gives it to the Adders & Burrocks (obvious isorla), but also the Mandrills and Cobras. For some reason the Mandrills don'r get the Blood Kite 2, but the rest do.
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I'm not sure, but the MUL gives it to the Adders & Burrocks (obvious isorla), but also the Mandrills and Cobras. For some reason the Mandrills don'r get the Blood Kite 2, but the rest do.
ewwwww, it's like putting ketchup on eggs!
I guess as salvage. Mandrills ended up like us, so that wouldn't matter much anymore either. sigh .... (lol)
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I could see the Spirits trading there own mechs for other designs or favors or supplies. Even gifting them on rare occasions to create stronger ties with other Clans. Loss and salvaged would be the other way Clans gained the Blood Kite. Some Clans might even trial just to get there hands on the design.
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So I'm thinking of painting up a 'Historical' Battlemech for the Blood Spirits. A sort of relic kept in service from Operation Klondike or kept as part of the Clans Museum of there early history. What do people think of say using the new Black Knight miniature or even say a Mackie?
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I think letting using the SLE/early clan mechs is perfect for resource poor clans. There is a quirk or two that increase maintenance time and availability to make a campaign level play have more bite.
Heck in my world/AU I renamed the Black Knight a Blood Knight and gave it the IIC make over, while keeping it as true to the original as I could. To me that would be a great totem mech.
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So I'm thinking of painting up a 'Historical' Battlemech for the Blood Spirits. A sort of relic kept in service from Operation Klondike or kept as part of the Clans Museum of there early history. What do people think of say using the new Black Knight miniature or even say a Mackie?
I would go with a Black Knight. a) the Mackie minis are kinda horrible looking, b) The Black Knight mini looks great, and c) A Black Knight with its no-ammo using weapons is more Blood Spirit-like.
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The Black Knight is always a fun design.
There was Colleen Schmitt also had an upgraded Highlander variant with an ERPPC and some early Clantech weaponry, and you could use that as a basis for an upgraded Highlander as well.
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The Black Knight is always a fun design.
There was Colleen Schmitt also had an upgraded Highlander variant with an ERPPC and some early Clantech weaponry, and you could use that as a basis for an upgraded Highlander as well.
I thought she was a Black Knight pilot?
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IIRC Hanni Schmidt, her mother was a Black Knight pilot.
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IIRC Hanni Schmidt, her mother was a Black Knight pilot.
Well luckily the set I just ordered comes with both a Highlander and a Black Knight.
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Highlander arrived today as did the Black Knight so the plan now is to paint the Highlander up in Blood Spirit colors and the Black Knight in SLDF colors with Black Watch markings.
That of course is after I finish up all these WoB Battle Armors I need to get done.
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Highlander arrived today as did the Black Knight so the plan now is to paint the Highlander up in Blood Spirit colors and the Black Knight in SLDF colors with Black Watch markings.
That of course is after I finish up all these WoB Battle Armors I need to get done.
Post picts when you have them done please
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Post picts when you have them done please
I will. I'm guessing the paint scheme used during Klondike was the current Alpha Galaxy scheme?
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I will. I'm guessing the paint scheme used during Klondike was the current Alpha Galaxy scheme?
I would think so especially as the spirits are big on their traditions
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were do i find the complets tears of blood story line
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were do i find the complets tears of blood story line
Erph....That is a good question...*checks* It does not seem to be available on the catalyst shop, and no idea what stories were put in the BattleCorps Anthologies.
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Erph....That is a good question...*checks* It does not seem to be available on the catalyst shop, and no idea what stories were put in the BattleCorps Anthologies.
Best bet is the Field Manual: Crusaders and Sarna.
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Best bet is the Field Manual: Crusaders and Sarna.
Alex Blood Spirit was asking about an old BattleCorps story series(I want to say it was like 7 parts?).
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Alex Blood Spirit was asking about an old BattleCorps story series(I want to say it was like 7 parts?).
Yep, it was 7 parts.
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Yep, it was 7 parts.
I miss BattleCorp somedays. Lot of stories I missed out on.
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What if Andre Kerensky had decided to join Clan Blood Spirit instead of Wolf to get out of the shadow of his Nichlas. Would that half benefited Clan Blood Spirit in any way ?
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What if Andre Kerensky had decided to join Clan Blood Spirit instead of Wolf to get out of the shadow of his Nichlas. Would that half benefited Clan Blood Spirit in any way ?
Probably yes. Being the home of a Kerensky and having the bloodline added would have given the Spirits the respect they needed to actually do the job Nicky K gave them.
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I like that "What if" scenario ...
especially if he were to push the esprit de corps. What if he had enough clout to stall the Wolverine fiasco too? cool alt universe ideas here.
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Probably yes. Being the home of a Kerensky and having the bloodline added would have given the Spirits the respect they needed to actually do the job Nicky K gave them.
I like that as well! However do we think he would have joined the coyotes if he had the option?
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joining the coyotes is possible but is it a conflict of interest with his relationshipm with Kufahj
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And Nicholas joining the Kerenskies and Winsons to the clan lead by his brother in law isn't?
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And Nicholas joining the Kerenskies and Winsons to the clan lead by his brother in law isn't?
Lol luckily being the all seeing all knowing Ilkhan covers pretty much everything
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I like that "What if" scenario ...
especially if he were to push the esprit de corps. What if he had enough clout to stall the Wolverine fiasco too? cool alt universe ideas here.
If that had happened I wonder if that would have caused a new divide: rather then Crusader vs warden it would have been innovation/teamwork clans such as the wolverines,spirits, horses, coyotes, adders conflicting with more traditional and competitive clans like the jags,bears, hellions and wolfs.
Given time perhaps the shine would have faded off nick and wether he wanted or not andery would have attracted more “ moderate” thinkers
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If that had happened I wonder if that would have caused a new divide: rather then Crusader vs warden it would have been innovation/teamwork clans such as the wolverines,spirits, horses, coyotes, adders conflicting with more traditional and competitive clans like the jags,bears, hellions and wolfs.
Rather innovative I would call the pragmatists. Some Clans for example decided to induct former Pentagon warriors into their ranks (the spirits being one of the first with the warriors of the Helgen County as well as the Shogunate). Also the Foxes with their favoring of the merchant caste opinions. There was already a divide as some Clans began decriing those Clans as "Clan in name only". Imagine that: a Kerensky civil war between the brothers an their different view points clash overtly.
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Honestly Nicky K most likelybwould have headed off a potential Civil War by either annihilating whatever Clan Andery joined, forced Andery into retirement, or finally called for a Trial of Possession to capture Andery for the Wolves. It would be funny if a Trial for Possession for Andery had failed and the Clan with Andery in it had gained a Winson.
"What do you mean they now have my wife?!?"
-Nicholas Kerensky
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So, in any of the fiction, has it been established what the Blood Spirit ceremonial masks look like? Supposedly the other Clans wear one, representing their totem animal, but the Blood Spirits don't have a totem animal (unless you count the vampire bat made by the Burrocks). So what does a high-ranking Blood Spirit out on their head when it's time to get all fancy?
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So, in any of the fiction, has it been established what the Blood Spirit ceremonial masks look like? Supposedly the other Clans wear one, representing their totem animal, but the Blood Spirits don't have a totem animal (unless you count the vampire bat made by the Burrocks). So what does a high-ranking Blood Spirit out on their head when it's time to get all fancy?
Mirrored black and red face plate with skin tight, shiny black and red body suit. The joke was always "The Blood Spirit Luchador costume." I think it is the thing that many are...not especially fond of.
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Dunno if its changed, but FM:Crusader Clans describes the Blood Spirits as having 3 uniforms.
The Field uniform is black with red padded ribbing on the outside of the forearms and ribs, along with impact resistant polymer surrounding the neck and shoulders which they can attach a helmet to and black boots.
The Dress uniform is tight-fitting blood-red bodysuit from neck to knee-high boots with a liquid-like stripe running down the left side of the body from the neck. A black and red reversible cape attaches at the shoulders and is only worn by trueborns.
The Ceremonial uniform is a loose-fitting blood-red jumpsuit, tucked into calf-high red boots. Over this is worn a large cloak that encases the torso with large sleeves and a deep cowl. Its finished off with a blood-red glass mask without features or openings that covers the face. Only Bloodname may wear this.
Now there's been some fluff for the Blood Spirits, but I'm not sure if any of the details have changed.
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The ceremonial uniform reminds me a lot of the outfit worn by the "robots" in The Black Hole.
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With a touch of Cobra commander as well (among other things).
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With a touch of Cobra commander as well (among other things).
Don't you mean, the G.I. Joe Crimson Guards? Google them...
TT
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Yeah, they were the other things.
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I kind of like the plain Blood Red Mask idea. Standing around surrounded by mirrors. All equal in the eyes of the Clans. Plus you could make silly faces at your political rivals.
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With a touch of Cobra commander as well (among other things).
Oh my God, how have I never put this together in all my years?
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Oh my God, how have I never put this together in all my years?
The best part? Gamestop sells a Cobra Commander mask and helmet. I'm thinking of getting one, painting helmet Blood Red and hand detailing on the brow the blood spirit insignia.
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I always imagined the Blood Spirit formal masks looking like this (though the uniforms, not so much):
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I always imagined the Blood Spirit formal masks looking like this (though the uniforms, not so much):
I would have the masks be personalized by the mechwarrior to his own preferences. So a mechwarrior could have a mask like that if desired. Or look like he escaped from a Daft Punk video.
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I always imagined the Blood Spirit formal masks looking like this (though the uniforms, not so much):
I don't know. . . that looks pretty close to what I can easily imagine Clan Warriors wearing, male or female. It's not enough to be badass, you have be seen to be badass. Especially if you aren't actually badass.
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have the Blood Spirits consider using mechs like Warhammer Orion OR an Atlas as a aframwork for new omni mech due to there limited resources
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have the Blood Spirits consider using mechs like Warhammer Orion OR an Atlas as a aframwork for new omni mech due to there limited resources
As it happens, this isn't as easy as one might imagine. The latest TP Foster has a couple of early OmniMechs, based on Crabs and Black Knights, and their description indicates this was not an easy task as they weren't originally anywhere near modular, and the Night Chanter (OmniCrab) at least was kind of a failure.
For anyone with limited resources, upgrading standard 'Mechs to better standard types makes more sense, or making a completely new low-cost OmniMech.
EDIT Since the Orion was apparently relatively easy to turn into an OmniMech, the Perseus, by the Free World League, this should be doable by the Blood Spirits. But is is probable they don't have them. The Orion never got a Royal upgrade, and it seems the Clans didn't really have them (judging by MUL availability, Star League in Exile but no specific Clans), so it isn't something the Blood Spirits would use as a base. And the Wolves could've taken offense, being Kerensky's chosen Clan and them making Orion IICs.
Warhammers seem to have been upgraded to C 3 types or replaced with IICs, and the Atlas was always rare among the Clans. Could there be suitable candidates? Sure, but probably not worth it for the Blood Spirits.
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"relatively easy" is relative. Where did you get the FWL info? (just curious, I don't get to delve into enough fluff ... dang kids and other rl stuff)
It's also easier when someone isn't continually trialing you for anything you have (coughburrockscough)
Personally I'd go with the Black Knight and call it a Blood Knight ... but that's neither here nor there.
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As it happens, this isn't as easy as one might imagine. The latest TP Foster has a couple of early OmniMechs, based on Crabs and Black Knights, and their description indicates this was not an easy task as they weren't originally anywhere near modular, and the Night Chanter (OmniCrab) at least was kind of a failure.
For anyone with limited resources, upgrading standard 'Mechs to better standard types makes more sense, or making a completely new low-cost OmniMech.
EDIT Since the Orion was apparently relatively easy to turn into an OmniMech, the Perseus, by the Free World League, this should be doable by the Blood Spirits. But is is probable they don't have them. The Orion never got a Royal upgrade, and it seems the Clans didn't really have them (judging by MUL availability, Star League in Exile but no specific Clans), so it isn't something the Blood Spirits would use as a base. And the Wolves could've taken offense, being Kerensky's chosen Clan and them making Orion IICs.
Warhammers seem to have been upgraded to C 3 types or replaced with IICs, and the Atlas was always rare among the Clans. Could there be suitable candidates? Sure, but probably not worth it for the Blood Spirits.
You can see some of the reasoning as to why the Orion was never really updated to an OmniMech in the Orion IIC entry in TRO: 3060.
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"relatively easy" is relative. Where did you get the FWL info? (just curious, I don't get to delve into enough fluff ... dang kids and other rl stuff)
The Perseus entry in FMFWL and TRO3067. The Perseus is based on the Orion and there's no mention of the it being a difficult conversion, unlike the Night Chanter entry in TPFoster.
And this reminds me, many of the Kuritan OmniMechs were based on Inner Sphere chassis: The Owens from the Jenner, the Strider from the Cicada, the Firestarter Omni from the Firestarter, the Blackjack Omni from the Blackjack... These all were done in relatively quickly, especially considering that the Kuritans aren't exactly technical wizard and were working with captured tech, not something they developed on their own (though i suppose the Clans had troubleshooted most Omni stuff centuries ago).
So, i suppose the actual base model matters a lot. So it becomes a question what options would the Blood Spirits have available, perhaps.
Of course, as you point out, being constantly under attack makes developing new stuff tricky.
As it happens, the Spirit Walker is based on the Black Knight... And good news for the Blood Spirits, they get it, until their very end.
You can see some of the reasoning as to why the Orion was never really updated to an OmniMech in the Orion IIC entry in TRO: 3060.
The Perseus is an OmniOrion, but i suppose the Orion was too revered among the Clans, not like the FWL has such inhibitions.
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The Perseus is an OmniOrion, but i suppose the Orion was too revered among the Clans, not like the FWL has such inhibitions.
Yes, that is a big part of it. From TRO: 3060:
As Aleksandr Kerensky’s chosen BattleMech, the original Orion held a special place within the Clans, especially Clan Wolf. Out of respect for the Great Father, the Clans maintained the design for several decades despite the invention of newer technologies.
For a Clan such as the Blood Spirits this would prevent them from ever considering updating the Orion.
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For a Clan such as the Blood Spirits this would prevent them from ever considering updating the Orion.
I wonder if this would extent to the Atlas, since Nicky K rode an Atlas II? Or would this be limited to the Atlas II?
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I wonder if this would extent to the Atlas, since Nicky K rode an Atlas II? Or would this be limited to the Atlas II?
According to Legends, after Nicholas’ death, his Atlas II remains in a place of honor in the museum annex to the Great Hall of the Clans, watched over by the Ebon Keshik. However, with Nicholas not dying until 25+ years after the Clans' founding, I would imagine any technical knowledge that could have been gleaned from his Atlas II had already been gathered and put to use.
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I was thinking using the Atlas/Atlas II chassis as a basis for an OmniMech. Is that fine or unacceptable? Since Orion getting tweaked is kind of a no-no except for the Wolves...
Technical knowledge seems irrelevant.
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Atlas II did show up in the 3050 invasion. Ghost Bears used them in there second line forces.
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There's a difference between using them and modifying them though. At least the Clans kinda seem to think so.
Incidentally Blood Spirits probably should have Atlas IIs as well, as the design is HW General in MUL.
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Atlas? ... Stick with the Blood Kite, Bro's! 45 LRMs, 3 ER LL, 12 SRMs ... we've got range, over lapping range, short range, and OMG-Alpha-Strike covered. (Era dependent of course ... go prototype and use improved versions of LRMs, LL and then SRM2s)
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You know, back to what if's ...
Say CBS was allowed to absorb the Burrocks, I think it would have given us some headache with the mainline warriors, but that would be a tremendous resource boost with a lot of warriors to direct towards other trials (basically what CSA did, too).
Also, it would have helped un-bloat the Adders. Possibly have a better relationship with the Cobras. Ability to better cement alliances with the Mandrills and Ravens, not loose a ton of Crimson Hawk production to the Sharks ... give enough of a push to have the Wars of Reaving go askew from where they went.
of course, all pending that our leadership didn't still go rotten bananas.
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You know, back to what if's ...
Say CBS was allowed to absorb the Burrocks, I think it would have given us some headache with the mainline warriors, but that would be a tremendous resource boost with a lot of warriors to direct towards other trials (basically what CSA did, too).
Also, it would have helped un-bloat the Adders. Possibly have a better relationship with the Cobras. Ability to better cement alliances with the Mandrills and Ravens, not loose a ton of Crimson Hawk production to the Sharks ... give enough of a push to have the Wars of Reaving go askew from where they went.
of course, all pending that our leadership didn't still go rotten bananas.
Lol, it always boils down the Karianna Schmitt.
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have the Blood Spirits consider using mechs like Warhammer Orion OR an Atlas as a aframwork for new omni mech due to there limited resources
This is one of those things you have to look at for the Blood Spirits: their lack of resources greatly effected a number of things about them.
They would use Endo-Steel more than Ferro-Fibrous armor, because armor was expected to take damage, and, while Ferro might over-all cost less in building the 'mech, it both gained less weight for the 'mech, and cost more to replace in the long term. Blood Spirit also prefered simpler missile systems and, until the invention of the Protomech AC, *generally* echewed ballistic in favour of energy weapons. And then, you come down to Omni-Mechs. While Blood Spirit *did* have OmniMech capability, and did manufacture a few of them(especially the Kingfisher and the Stooping Hawk), they did not produce that many, instead relying on the standardization that making conventional BattleMechs brought. If they were to do anything with a Warhammer or Atlas frame, it would be convert them into Clan Tech machines. I would expect a Blood Spirit Warhammer to have ER Larges instead of ER PPCs, just because it seems that Blood Spirit actually has a liking for those. However, Heavy Large Lasers, Heavy Mediums, and Double Sinks could change a Warhammer in significant ways, as much as an Atlas could be changed by a brace of PACs and Heavy Lasers. Blood Spirits could easily take these old chassis and do horrific things with them...but to convert them into an Omni would cost way more than making an "Upgrade Kit" would.
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Blood Spirits might also use Star League era Battlemechs unmodified particularly if they were Royals. Many Royals are a match for Second Line Clan Battlemechs pretty easily. Particularly they might be a reward for up and coming Ristars as a sign of the Clana favor rather than a rarer Omnimech.
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have the Blood Spirits consider using mechs like Warhammer Orion OR an Atlas as a aframwork for new omni mech due to there limited resources
Someone already mentioned the Wolves’ personal attachment to the Orion. In the case of the Warhammer, the Clans have arguably already used it as the basis for the Hellbringer omni. The Atlas strikes me as an expensive start to designing a new omni, which is not the Spirits’ schtick.
I’d aim for something more pedestrian, like an Archer. Thanks to Clan missile launchers weighing half the Spheroid versions, you can just double the Archer’s launchers, convert to freezers to deal with heat, drop a couple lasers for more ammo, convert the rest to ER models and be done. If you want, you can fiddle with smaller launchers or endo or ferro for even more ammo. But it’s a cheap way to put something in the touman that can throw 80 LRMs a turn at Clan heavy cav, take a licking, and keep on ticking. Alternate configs can focus on SRMs, Arrow IV, etc.
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I’d aim for something more pedestrian, like an Archer.
The Archer C was retconned in RG:ilClan v10...
Archer C 2 mounts SSRM-4's, MPLs and DHS...
But what I like is the Archer Wolf...
TT
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The Archer C was retconned in RG:ilClan v10...
Archer C 2 mounts SSRM-4's, MPLs and DHS...
But what I like is the Archer Wolf...
TT
I was going for a cheap omni and something smarter than spending weight savings on single heat sinks.
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Blood Spirits might also use Star League era Battlemechs unmodified particularly if they were Royals. Many Royals are a match for Second Line Clan Battlemechs pretty easily. Particularly they might be a reward for up and coming Ristars as a sign of the Clana favor rather than a rarer Omnimech.
This is something that somehow puzzles me every time I read "New mech beats old mech". If we take for example a Royal Mech and simply update this mech wiith Clan tech wouldn't that be in essence a good competition to any Clan Mech regardless if it is Secondline or Omni (depending on the pilot of course). Or is my thinking too simple? Yes Omnis can be reconfiured on the fly (well basically) but for example a Royal Warhammer with Clan tech should be a good match against Omnis of the same weight class
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Any mech with IS Missile Launchers is immediately improved by replacing them with Clan Missile Launchers. Same can be argued with Lasers but they have huge heat burdens so swapping them out means you REALLY want DHS. Royal mechs would be a good swap for these things because many already have DHS.
Would they be as good as Omni’s? Probably not but they’d be very effective second line machines for relatively cheap effort.
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And the Blood Spirits probably had a lot of SL era designs from there early days as well as what they got from the Snow Ravens when they traded there warships fortunately Clans older Battlemechs.
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The Blood Spirits would aim for designs that don't require a lot of maintenance to maintain or are easily convertible. Their Omnimechs reflect that. The Crimsom Langur ended up being a joint experiment with the Fire Mandrills which was a fast deviation from the normal no XL based units the Spirits typically favor. The Stooping Hawk is a good example of a Spirit OOmni design. Endo Steel construction, medium speed, solid configs, fixed jump jets for all around mobility.
Other Omni designs they favor are things like the Kingfisher, the Battle Cobra, the Crossbow, or the Nova. Anything that only carries 1 or two weight savings at maximum with efficient amounts of pod space. For second line units that have no current Clan conversions, i suggest the following
Crockett
Thorn
Mercury
Stalker
Crusader
Starslayer
Sentinel
Crab
Ostroc
Hornet (iffy given the Thorn)
Shootist
Kyudo
Catapult
Mackie
Thug
Chameleon
Longbow.
Black Knight
All of these designs use little to no weight saving tech, punch decent or even well above their weight class, and are built to last. They also mostly carry at least one of the Spirit's favorite weapons, the SRM 4, the Large Laser, o the LRM-15.
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Were the Blood Spirits leaders in any technology
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Were the Blood Spirits leaders in any technology
Nope, as the Blood Spirits were a rather poor Clan. The Blood Spirits generally made do with lower tech 'Mechs out of necessity. And their attitude also emphasized abilities over technology.
I would imagine the Blood Spirits were good at maintaining what they got, and recycling stuff even more so that other Clans, out of necessity.
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Were the Blood Spirits leaders in any technology
They did make proto tech their specialty so I would say they definitely became leaders in both proto units and the proto phenotype
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Were the Blood Spirits leaders in any technology
The Spirits did not invent, but were arguably a leader in, protomech technology. For the second generation of protomechs (the designs that did not originate with either the Jaguars or the Society/Spheroid Clans), the Spirits are the only Clan responsible for more than one design: the Cecerops and the Chrysaor (with the Ravens). And they developed a phenotype for protomech warriors.
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Oh, right, i forgot the ProtoMechs completely. Also the ProtoMech AC a Blood Spirit creation per TacOps.
EDIT Looking at Interstellar Operations (old version) tech table, in addition to the PACs, the Blood Spirits were co-creators of ProtoMech Myomer Boosters (with Ice Hellions), creators of ProtoMech Partial Wing (though finished version was by Snow Ravens), ProtoMech UMUs (see a trend here?), ProtoMech Cubicles for ships, and Clan Battle Armor Heat Sensor and Improved Sensors.
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The fact the Blood Spirits were the Clan to come up with a Proto Phenotype says a lot of what they had planned long term. They were willing to spend rescources on a unproven phenotype because they were using Protomechs so heavily or planned to use it even heavier in the future if not for the WoR. I think the Spirits were the only Clan to field pure Protomechs as well. Which is a lot of shots per Point much less Star.
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After Operation K;omdike how many planets did the Blood Spirits have
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Immediately after Klondike? Just their enclaves on Strana Mechty and Arcadia. The rest of the Kerensky Cluster hadn't been explored or colonized yet. They would eventually have York, and parts of Foster & one of the Burrock planets (either Albion or Priori. I think it's Albion).
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Blood Spirits never really were a large Clan even early on. They were so focused on aiding other Clans that there rescources never really caught up enough to build up enough to compete.
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Blood Spirits never really were a large Clan even early on. They were so focused on aiding other Clans that there rescources never really caught up enough to build up enough to compete.
Not to mention all the stravag backstabbers who made the Blood Spirits isolationist didn’t help.
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i know they did some exploring they territory on Foster and Sheridon. Foster teritory was traded to the Mabndrills
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So I ended up with a spare Nightstar from one of the force packs with no idea where to put it. While the Nightstar doesn't appear on the MUL for us going into the later eras, I figured it's a legacy SLDF design -- we've got plenty of those still in the touman. I know, I know, "play you want" but would it make sense to have a surviving Nighstar hanging out in a front-line cluster?
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So I ended up with a spare Nightstar from one of the force packs with no idea where to put it. While the Nightstar doesn't appear on the MUL for us going into the later eras, I figured it's a legacy SLDF design -- we've got plenty of those still in the touman. I know, I know, "play you want" but would it make sense to have a surviving Nighstar hanging out in a front-line cluster?
The Blood Spirits are desperate for any equipment, especially post-Burrock Absorption. That's why they started churning out ProtoMechs. Delving into deep storage for a pretty decent Assault chassis would be only prudent, especially once the Star Adders start landing on York.
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Any SL design that left with the Exodus is fair game!
You can run the NSJ (right? hold on, checking ... oops) NSR as is or do a few retrofits, or complete weapons swap. Just with weapons updates you get +7 tons. Ammo, DHS for perfect curve, etc.
I think it would be a great design for your CBS touman.
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Star of Royal BLR-1Gb using clantech being lead by a Royal BLR-1Gbc Red Corsair?
I jest...
TT
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Star of Royal BLR-1Gb using clantech being lead by a Royal BLR-1Gbc Red Corsair?
I jest...
TT
But……?
I too have seen the sweet new battle master.
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Isn't that the Battlemaster C 2?
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Nope, based off the old BLR-1Gb model... 1Gbc was the command counsel model.
C 2 was the production modelof the Red Coarsair...
TT
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Just needs that extra PPC.
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Blood Spirits might also use Star League era Battlemechs unmodified particularly if they were Royals. Many Royals are a match for Second Line Clan Battlemechs pretty easily. Particularly they might be a reward for up and coming Ristars as a sign of the Clana favor rather than a rarer Omnimech.
I can’t imagine a resource strapped clan like the spirits having mint condition unmodified SLDF mechs especially when they really suffered during the golden century I have to imagine they would have made a bunch of Frankenstein mods or simple weapon swaps to clan spec
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I can’t imagine a resource strapped clan like the spirits having mint condition unmodified SLDF mechs especially when they really suffered during the golden century I have to imagine they would have made a bunch of Frankenstein mods or simple weapon swaps to clan spec
No, sadly it would be a stretch unless they opened up some Brian Cache they had luckily found untouched for centuries. About the only examples I could think of would be ceremonial or museum mechs. I could the Blood Spirits maintaining the original forty Warriors Mechs for example.
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resource poor vs periphery resource poor are two different things. Also their techs (all clans imo) are highly skilled and have access to much better training than we might give them credit for.
my .02 C$, resource poor indicates their ability to produce omnimechs, not necessarily outfit them. Also they would streamline their weapons instead of having tons of choices (ERLL, LRM15 for example). Other systems are still available, but won't be as wide spread.
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Plus the Blood Spirits waned and waxed throughout the 3060s until their death in 3085. They gained an entire Galaxy from the Ravens I think, plus some more construction plants here and there, and their two hidden colony worlds had at least Protomech construction facilities based on Wars of Reaving and Suppplemental. Like I posted earlier, second line designs and older Omnis like the Spirit Walker (aka the Omni Black Knight), that Omni Crab thing from Clan Fire Mandrill, and weapon refits of Star Leauge stuff from their caches easily make up for a lower more modern production base. They also trade with a couple of more of the powerful Clans during the Wars and get some boosts that way.
What might not be a bad idea is to put together a What If refit list over in the Fan Desgins era for Blood Spirit retools and field refits for older stuff lying around. We're also told in the fluff for the Blood Kite that designs developed by the Spirit scientists were often resource intensive, so they may have gone for quality just like they did warriors in their training before the cost effectiveness idea came along.
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which rec guide is the spirit walker in? NM, Turning: Points Foster
I made my own BNKT omni ... called it a Blood Knight (obviously a CBS design!). Would like to gander at the official version.
oooh, has made its way to Sarna, noice
AND a Crab IIC (ahem Night Chanter)!
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Yup they're both solid Omnis for the Blood Spirits. The Battle Cobra, the Crossbow, the Kingfisher, the Stooping Hawk, the Uller and the Nova also nicely meet low cost front line Omnis. We just need things like the Crusader C, the Crockett C, etc.
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which rec guide is the spirit walker in? NM, Turning: Points Foster
I made my own BNKT omni ... called it a Blood Knight (obviously a CBS design!). Would like to gander at the official version.
oooh, has made its way to Sarna, noice
AND a Crab IIC (ahem Night Chanter)!
I was very excited about the all energy spirit walker so of course I am adding that to my spirits. In tens of model I will use the DA black knight model with the cool pod arms
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Yup they're both solid Omnis for the Blood Spirits. The Battle Cobra, the Crossbow, the Kingfisher, the Stooping Hawk, the Uller and the Nova also nicely meet low cost front line Omnis. We just need things like the Crusader C, the Crockett C, etc.
maybe without all the name changes (i'm like 50/50 on name changes ... sometimes I just like a simple clan mod/upgrade ala Lancelot C).
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Yup they're both solid Omnis for the Blood Spirits. The Battle Cobra, the Crossbow, the Kingfisher, the Stooping Hawk, the Uller and the Nova also nicely meet low cost front line Omnis. We just need things like the Crusader C, the Crockett C, etc.
I really do not like the Battle Cobra and Crossbow. That they have all their weapons in the arms means they are going to be knocked out of the fight fairly quickly. I prefer zombie 'Mechs that can fight until their last breath.
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I really do not like the Battle Cobra and Crossbow. That they have all their weapons in the arms means they are going to be knocked out of the fight fairly quickly. I prefer zombie 'Mechs that can fight until their last breath.
It’s a great Elemental carrier but completely agree. At least a couple of backup weapons in the torsos (or legs!)
This should be especially true in resource strapped or smaller Clans like the Spirits. Zombie designs should be predominant. Admittedly the Battle Cobra is a good medium mech so I wouldn’t discount it.
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That's pretty much how I visualize Clan BS mechs since they're such sticklers for tradition. Mechs for conversion consideration
Stalker
Crusader
Thug
Ostroc
Shootist
Hussar
Sentinel
Thorn
Royal Archer
Royal Thunderbolt
Royal Marauder
Crockett
Emperor
Pillager
Night Hawk
Talon
Excalibur
Royal Battlemaster
Royal Griffin
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One design I could see the Blood Spirits using would be two designs that the other Clans might avoid for some reason or the other like the Pulverizers they might have gotten in trade from the Snow Ravens or Devastator mechs from the Klondike era. They might be in use as the very bottom of each Galaxys list but they would be very useful.
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The Pulverizer I can definitely see. It's tough, has decent firepower and isn't very resource intensive. You can definitively see it as the inspiration for the Kingfisher. They're just going to be super rare since the Ravens didn't put them back into production until 3149.
The Devastator never really hung on after the death of the Wolverines. If there is one out there, it would probably come as trade from captured Lyran models then from anyware else.
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It would have been cool if the Wolverines left something behind for the Spirits, as they were the only clan to try to hear them out. It would have to be a secret-secret stash.
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It would have been cool if the Wolverines left something behind for the Spirits, as they were the only clan to try to hear them out. It would have to be a secret-secret stash.
I mean the Snow Ravens (at least one very important SaKhan) we’re willing too. And the Nova Cats also were prepared to stand with them at one point. But yes definitely the Spirits.
That being said the Wolverines tried to leave nothing behind. They wanted to take everything with them: a third exodus.
The Pulverizer I wish was further spread out: it’s a fantastic mech for that age and makes a solid second line machine (with the new Full Clan Spec variant). The Devastator EC just makes an awesome assault mech and can go in any formation as a solid fire support anchor. It’s simple to just point and shoot with it, no fancy tactics needed.
The Spirits could use each design very well.
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One design I could see the Blood Spirits using would be two designs that the other Clans might avoid for some reason or the other like the Pulverizers they might have gotten in trade from the Snow Ravens or Devastator mechs from the Klondike era. They might be in use as the very bottom of each Galaxys list but they would be very useful.
My thoughts exactly! The totally brutal design ( I wish for a resculpt!) that the ravens apparently did build. In addition I have always been interested in the raven/spirit warship for mechs trade woukd be a great future sharpnel story… I mean the spirits are so conservative etc etc but If the more morally flexible ravens offered them a star of pulverizers mixed in with a their shipment are they going to say no?
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My thoughts exactly! The totally brutal design ( I wish for a resculpt!) that the ravens apparently did build. In addition I have always been interested in the raven/spirit warship for mechs trade woukd be a great future sharpnel story… I mean the spirits are so conservative etc etc but If the more morally flexible ravens offered them a star of pulverizers mixed in with a their shipment are they going to say no?
Right? It’s a second line design with some tainted stigma attached so trading it would be an easy move. The Spirits might not like it because it’s not an Omni, but with their limited resources I’d say it’s a win. Then again what happens when the other Clans see them fielding Pulverizers?
I mean canonically they faced a couple Trials of Grievance so I’d expect anyone following their example to face the same.
I kinda wanna make a Blood Spirit force now: Spartan C, Pulverizer, Blood Kite, Stooping Hawk. Except I never will paint it lol. But if I did I’ll need a non pure red unit. I couldn’t stand to have bright red on everything.
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Right? It’s a second line design with some tainted stigma attached so trading it would be an easy move. The Spirits might not like it because it’s not an Omni, but with their limited resources I’d say it’s a win. Then again what happens when the other Clans see them fielding Pulverizers?
I mean canonically they faced a couple Trials of Grievance so I’d expect anyone following their example to face the same.
I kinda wanna make a Blood Spirit force now: Spartan C, Pulverizer, Blood Kite, Stooping Hawk. Except I never will paint it lol. But if I did I’ll need a non pure red unit. I couldn’t stand to have bright red on everything.
Alpha galaxy and the blood guard have red highlights but not red as the primary so I would explore those
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Right? It’s a second line design with some tainted stigma attached so trading it would be an easy move. The Spirits might not like it because it’s not an Omni, but with their limited resources I’d say it’s a win. Then again what happens when the other Clans see them fielding Pulverizers?
What is this about the Spirits, a Clan that has more front line standard 'mechs than any other Clan, that has very few natively built Omni-Mechs, and, in fact, keeps review the Stooping Hawk to make sure it is not a waste of resources, not liking a 'Mech because it is not an Omni?
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What is this about the Spirits, a Clan that has more front line standard 'mechs than any other Clan, that has very few natively built Omni-Mechs, and, in fact, keeps review the Stooping Hawk to make sure it is not a waste of resources, not liking a 'Mech because it is not an Omni?
There is a mention in the fluff for the Blood Kite that the version equipped with PPC's while effective is seen as expensive by the Spirits. So even "second-line" Mechs are on the chopping block when they use the "wrong" technologies
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What is this about the Spirits, a Clan that has more front line standard 'mechs than any other Clan, that has very few natively built Omni-Mechs, and, in fact, keeps review the Stooping Hawk to make sure it is not a waste of resources, not liking a 'Mech because it is not an Omni?
Yeah sorry: I realize I sorta messed up in that statement. I will echo what Metal said though. The Spirits tend to be ‘picky’ and ‘stubborn’ when it comes to certain things (like Cluster compositions)
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Spirits are very traditional. And very much wanting the best for there warriors. Omni's are top of the line so they won't Omni's. Fielding a Second line design is slmost seen as being a step down, not a full warrior because they don't have the best. Which is funny because they made amazing Second Line designs.
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Spirits are very traditional. And very much wanting the best for there warriors. Omni's are top of the line so they won't Omni's. Fielding a Second line design is slmost seen as being a step down, not a full warrior because they don't have the best. Which is funny because they made amazing Second Line designs.
Due to their chronic equipment shortages I would think that a standing order or at least a common practice for the spirits would be to try to scoop up as much isorla mechs as possible. For example woukd the ultra elite blood guard not try to poach new designs from other strana mechty based units? Or would that be considered dishonorable?
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Due to their chronic equipment shortages, I would think that a standing order or at least a common practice for the spirits would be to try to scoop up as many isorla mechs as possible. For example, would the ultra-elite Blood Guard Keshik not try to poach new designs from other Strana Mechty based units? Or would that be considered dishonorable?
Is it not standard protocol amongst all of the clans to trial for mechs you want, quiaff? I think it would be dishonorable not to constantly try to get the best new designs the other clans have. However, I think that the Blood Guard Keshik would primarily remain within the Strana Mechty enclave to defend it from Burrock/Star Adder aggression rather than seeking out conflict, as constantly engaging in trials of possession is far more gregarious (in the manner of clan society) than the Blood Spirits normally are.
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Due to their chronic equipment shortages I would think that a standing order or at least a common practice for the spirits would be to try to scoop up as much isorla mechs as possible. For example woukd the ultra elite blood guard not try to poach new designs from other strana mechty based units? Or would that be considered dishonorable?
The question is how far the trial is allowed to go. Let's say the defender raises the stakes unreasonable high the merchants (who are in essence the deciding factor behind many trials) might say "Nope not that one it's cheaper to build more standard stuff then send out a binary of precious mechs that might get destroyed to aquire the same amount" Also there is one point: if you get said Mechs via trial you also need the means to keep them running. So in essence it basically guarantees you need to send out forces again and again and again just to keep some "foreign" Mechs running (yes I know that is in essence Clan society but it might not fit the Spirit's thrifty nature)
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Has anyone else seen that the new Naga II from RG. 26 is listed as available for the Spirits on MUL? I certainly did not expect a new early omnimech from the rec guide series. I do not have the pdf myself but based on the art the prime looks like an ultra 5(?), an LB of the same class, and an LRM 20. So not the most Blood Spirit configuration, but there is an H config.
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Has anyone else seen that the new Naga II from RG. 26 is listed as available for the Spirits on MUL?
They even discuss in the RecGuide that the Spirits have a substantial number of them, too, just in case you haven't had a chance to read the actual entry on them.
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I think the Bloodguard Keshik stayed in garrison most of the time. It's mentioned a few times the Spirits stayed so isolationist that some Clans even forgot they existed.
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Has anyone else seen that the new Naga II from RG. 26 is listed as available for the Spirits on MUL? I certainly did not expect a new early omnimech from the rec guide series. I do not have the pdf myself but based on the art the prime looks like an ultra 5(?), an LB of the same class, and an LRM 20. So not the most Blood Spirit configuration, but there is an H config.
I have the Rec Guide in question. The Naga II is listed as being more common in the Blood Spirit touman than anyone else's because every other Clan had phased them out. I questioned that because it's a thinly armored assault with a big expensive 400XL engine, but the point was made in return that these are old out-of-production designs that the Spirits use because everyone else was basically trading them away on the cheap.
As for the configs, the one that stands out the most as a Spirit config is the Alpha -- it has two ERLLs in one arm. The Hotel does have a Heavy Large and two Heavy Mediums though.
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I have the Rec Guide in question. The Naga II is listed as being more common in the Blood Spirit touman than anyone else's because every other Clan had phased them out. I questioned that because it's a thinly armored assault with a big expensive 400XL engine, but the point was made in return that these are old out-of-production designs that the Spirits use because everyone else was basically trading them away on the cheap.
As for the configs, the one that stands out the most as a Spirit config is the Alpha -- it has two ERLLs in one arm. The Hotel does have a Heavy Large and two Heavy Mediums though.
One can not go wrong with ER larges, but even having not seen the record sheet, the thought of an XL and thin armor makes me think twice about taking this over something with zombie capabilities.
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One can not go wrong with ER larges, but even having not seen the record sheet, the thought of an XL and thin armor makes me think twice about taking this over something with zombie capabilities.
I can see the point: It will be crippled early, and thus more likely to be able to be repaired and put back out onto the field. Also, isn't it still an artillery 'mech? So it should not be getting shot at much, anyway...
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It should be in the backfield. Only coming out if it has a chance to be useful. But Clan Honor being what it is, if it comes out early and wins a fight its a lot of honor gained for that Warrior.
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It should be in the backfield. Only coming out if it has a chance to be useful. But Clan Honor being what it is, if it comes out early and wins a fight its a lot of honor gained for that Warrior.
No-one has ever accused the Clans of being "practical." Even the "Legendarily practical" Wolves have had their share of "Warrior-itis." And, frankly, if anyone actually called Blood Spirits "practical" or "pragmatic"? Those are fighting words!
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does the Merchants caste have last names
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No. Only the Warrior caste does. The Scientist caste has "labnames," but those are not officially recognized outside of their caste.
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No. Only the Warrior caste does. The Scientist caste has "labnames," but those are not officially recognized outside of their caste.
Are those "labnames"? I thought they often choose the name of famous researchers from their line of specialization.
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Are those "labnames"? I thought they often choose the name of famous researchers from their line of specialization.
Those are the labnames, and are bestowed by peers in recognition of accomplishment.
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Might be interesting if the other Castes had surnames they adopted unofficially. They would move Heaven and Earth to keep them from the warrior castes. But could you imagine if Laborers took names from famous muscle builders?
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Might be interesting if the other Castes had surnames they adopted unofficially. They would move Heaven and Earth to keep them from the warrior castes. But could you imagine if Laborers took names from famous muscle builders?
1) That would actually go against Clan philosophy. The only reason scientists had Labnames was because they were as competitive as Warriors. Every other Caste must work together to achieve goals. One man does not build a barracks or a 'mech.
2) Why muscle builders? I would think famous/legendary workers would be better: Henry, Appleseed, Jones, Hoffa, etc..
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2) Why muscle builders? I would think famous/legendary workers would be better: Henry, Appleseed, Jones, Hoffa, etc..
We bestow upon you the labor name…”Phil from Accounting”!
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1) That would actually go against Clan philosophy. The only reason scientists had Labnames was because they were as competitive as Warriors. Every other Caste must work together to achieve goals. One man does not build a barracks or a 'mech.
There are lower caste members that are just as egotistical, competitive, and capable of backstabbing as any human being. Just because a writer waves his “magic wand” and says “compete no more” does not make that any less true.
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1) That would actually go against Clan philosophy. The only reason scientists had Labnames was because they were as competitive as Warriors. Every other Caste must work together to achieve goals. One man does not build a barracks or a 'mech.
2) Why muscle builders? I would think famous/legendary workers would be better: Henry, Appleseed, Jones, Hoffa, etc..
For number 2) I was jokingly thinking of using names from Mr Universe or historical legends. Could you imagine if there was a Laborer named Arnie and he got the Laborname Scwartzenager? Or how about John Stallone? Maybe Tad Hercules?
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I've got a few SL and Clan Omni minis from the CGL boxes and I've recently become attached to an idea for a homebrew Spirit Cluster I've thought up, which I'd call the Bloodstone Guards. I'm thinking they'd be the centerpiece Cluster for one of the fallen Spirit Galaxies, with the name/idea coming from the belief that ancient Greeks and Romans carried pieces of heliotrope (bloodstone) as a charm against venomous creatures. Therefore, my guys would likely have spent lots of time defending the Spirit enclaves on Arcadia with both the Steel Vipers and the Star Adders also present in that system, before being attached elsewhere and eventually seeing the Wars of Reaving. Heliotrope as a stone is usually a shade of darker to very dark green with red speckling and/or patches, so for a paint scheme, utilitarian grey with prominent panels in the heliotrope pattern? Maybe with some added red accents? I was also thinking bigger machines to emphasize their role as a defensive unit. Any thoughts or suggestions? I'm especially open to opinions on paint schemes, as this would be a tabletop force and I'm going for a coolness factor.
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I'd be wary of giving them that name, to be honest. Blood Spirit centerpiece Clusters, which only their frontline Galaxies seem to have as secondline Galaxies are exclusively composed of numbered Crimson Guards, all follow a particular naming convention (____ Guards, where the blank is a specific shade of red; see Alpha's Red Guards, Omega's Scarlet Guards, fallen Beta's Cerise Guards, Iota's Crimson Guards), and they're pretty strict on not deviating from their norms when it comes to touman structure.
That said, it's homebrew, so it doesn't really matter either way. But you asked for suggestions, old friend, and that's mine.
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Hey TK! That's a good point. Damn, I really liked the "charm against poisonous bites" aspect as being perfect for a unit that had history with the Snake Clans. I do see that heliotrope is also a color, per wikipedia, though it's a pinkish-purple and would also seem to be against the naming convention. Though, there's only so many shades of red and I feel canon already took the good ones. I now know what 'cerise' means though. :))
Also, the Crimson Guards as Iota's centerpiece unit confuses me. I see there are quite a few CG Clusters across the Touman, and another part of my headcanon would have had these guys starting out as John Q. Crimson Guards Cluster before being redesignated as a named unit, though I don't know if such things were known in CBS. Thanks for the input though. Hope you've been well.
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Yeah, the Crimson Guards of Iota Galaxy... annoy me. Like, there are umpteen shades of red, and they picked the one that already shares a name with literally every secondline Cluster in the touman? That's silly and feels lazy.
And as for your idea? That actually happened in canon, though the Cluster in question didn't actually make it onto the rolls in FM:CC because it was poorly written/edited. The 66th Crimson Guards of Mu were upgraded to frontline status and became the 29th Blood Drinkers Cluster, and context clues tell me it was meant to be assigned to Omega Galaxy (the text says it has 7 Clusters, but the actual listing only gives us 6). So your idea there DOES have precedent.
There are still shades of red that could work that haven't been taken. Vermilion, Ruby, Carmine, Carnelian... those all sound pretty good, at least to my dainty ears. ;D
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And as for your idea? That actually happened in canon, though the Cluster in question didn't actually make it onto the rolls in FM:CC because it was poorly written/edited. The 66th Crimson Guards of Mu were upgraded to frontline status and became the 29th Blood Drinkers Cluster, and context clues tell me it was meant to be assigned to Omega Galaxy (the text says it has 7 Clusters, but the actual listing only gives us 6). So your idea there DOES have precedent.
There are still shades of red that could work that haven't been taken. Vermilion, Ruby, Carmine, Carnelian... those all sound pretty good, at least to my dainty ears. ;D
Excellent, excellent. I can keep the promotion part then. So, realigning my approach, instead of a centerpiece Guards-type Cluster (although the Vermilion Guards has a very nice ring), I notice a few units that were apparently unique in their designations, like the 55th Red Vanguard, the 72nd Crimson Cuirassiers, the 112th Scarlet Battle, and two Assault Clusters that had no other titles attached. I'm now thinking more along the lines of these units, like a '3rd Bloodstone Battle Cluster' or a '60th Bloodstone Assault Cluster.' I feel like that is keeping most of the roots of what I had in mind intact, but keeps them fully immersed in Spirit fluffiness with the examples of other Clusters that shared their designations with seemingly no other units outside their parent Galaxies, and became 'loners' after the loss of their parent commands. That seem more reasonable to those familiar with these things?
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I think that would work just fine, actually. Somewhat related, but I made a listing of canonical Spirit Cluster naming conventions and added a couple of notes based on my own observations. Maybe it'll be of some use to ya?
- Frontline Galaxies all appear to have a lead unit: Red Guards for Alpha, Scarlet Guards for Omega, Cerise Guards for Beta (lost in Absorption War)
- Red Assault Cluster
- Red Battle Cluster
- Red Vanguard Cluster
- Crimson Vanguard Cluster
- Crimson Assault Cluster
- Crimson Cuirassiers Cluster
- Scarlet Battle Cluster (assuming per the above Red/Crimson Clusters that there was likely other types of Scarlet Clusters [Scarlet Assault, Scarlet Vanguard, etc.])
- Blood Drinkers
- Blood Hussars
- Crimson Guards (secondline Clusters)
- Blood Cavalry (WoR-era, appears to be ProtoMech Clusters)
- Spirit Chasseurs (WoR-era, appears to be the renamed Raven Chasseurs Clusters of Zeta Galaxy)
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It's your game. Do what you want and post pics!
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Tassa Kay thanks for the info on Spirit cluster names it gives me a afew ideas for my story line
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Brothers and Sisters. I have decided to recreate a dark day in the Clans history as a scenario. The Star Adders Assault on the Strana Mechty Blood Spirit Genetic Repository. What I need is a good idea what that facility actually would look like. Help me design that facility. Right now each building can take 50 damage other than the main facility which requires 150 damage to destroy. I'm figuring on at least 11 buildings on the map. Advice?
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Brothers and Sisters. I have decided to recreate a dark day in the Clans history as a scenario. The Star Adders Assault on the Strana Mechty Blood Spirit Genetic Repository. What I need is a good idea what that facility actually would look like. Help me design that facility. Right now each building can take 50 damage other than the main facility which requires 150 damage to destroy. I'm figuring on at least 11 buildings on the map. Advice?
Wow! What a cool and dark scenario indeed. Was that battle detailed in the WOR book?
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Brothers and Sisters. I have decided to recreate a dark day in the Clans history as a scenario. The Star Adders Assault on the Strana Mechty Blood Spirit Genetic Repository. What I need is a good idea what that facility actually would look like. Help me design that facility. Right now each building can take 50 damage other than the main facility which requires 150 damage to destroy. I'm figuring on at least 11 buildings on the map. Advice?
Let me see if I can find anything in the old RPG supplement "MechWarrior's Guide to the Clans". IIRC, that particular book had a fantastic write-up about Strana Mechty and Katyusha, and I bet there's something in there that might be of help to you!
EDIT: There isn't a "Blood Spirit Genetic Repository" on Strana Mechty, per se; there's the Master Genetic Repostory in Katyusha City that all the Clans use, but the Spirits' own primary genetic repository had long since been transferred to York and then transferred to Haven in 3070. That Adder attack was targeting the Spirits' enclave on Strana Mechty, which wouldn't have been in Katyusha anyway, and all they seemed to have there was a small genetic laboratory. So you could probably just throw in a few support buildings around the laboratory and call it a day.
Also, have you checked out the WoR diorama that CamoSpecs did (https://camospecs.com/unit/2011-diorama), depicting the multi-Clan assault on the Wolf repository?
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EDIT: There isn't a "Blood Spirit Genetic Repository" on Strana Mechty, per se; there's the Master Genetic Repostory in Katyusha City that all the Clans use, but the Spirits' own primary genetic repository had long since been transferred to York and then transferred to Haven in 3070. That Adder attack was targeting the Spirits' enclave on Strana Mechty, which wouldn't have been in Katyusha anyway, and all they seemed to have there was a small genetic laboratory. So you could probably just throw in a few support buildings around the laboratory and call it a day.
Bolded section for reference.
This has me thinking now: The Adders still Absorbed the Spirits. While they buried the repository on Haven, did they also destroy the Sprit genetics in the master repository? Or did they save those for future use? From a typical Clan outlook, to destroy the genetics would be wasteful, but I am not sure how the Adders would view things post "Absorption." And, if the warriors are raised as Star Adders, never told the history of their Bloodnames, or even if the genetics are only used for the Paternal DNA, the origins of the genetic material wouldn't matter. I wonder what the final fate of the genetics in Master Repository were?
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Bolded section for reference.
This has me thinking now: The Adders still Absorbed the Spirits. While they buried the repository on Haven, did they also destroy the Sprit genetics in the master repository? Or did they save those for future use? From a typical Clan outlook, to destroy the genetics would be wasteful, but I am not sure how the Adders would view things post "Absorption." And, if the warriors are raised as Star Adders, never told the history of their Bloodnames, or even if the genetics are only used for the Paternal DNA, the origins of the genetic material wouldn't matter. I wonder what the final fate of the genetics in Master Repository were?
Unfortunately I believe the Adders destroyed every evidence of the Blood Spirits due to their long standing conflict and the Clans are the biggest hypocrites is the Battletech universe (especially when it comes to waste). The Wolverines did a similar stunt to the Ghost Bears and over a hundred warriors were purged as a result. A part of me hopes that the Blood Spirits survived the Absorption (or as I think Elimination) but the longer we don’t hear from the Homeworlds the more I am in doubt.
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This has me thinking now: The Adders still Absorbed the Spirits. While they buried the repository on Haven, did they also destroy the Sprit genetics in the master repository? Or did they save those for future use? From a typical Clan outlook, to destroy the genetics would be wasteful, but I am not sure how the Adders would view things post "Absorption." And, if the warriors are raised as Star Adders, never told the history of their Bloodnames, or even if the genetics are only used for the Paternal DNA, the origins of the genetic material wouldn't matter. I wonder what the final fate of the genetics in Master Repository were?
To be honest, I seriously doubt that the Adders bothered to take any of the Spirits' genetic material before burying the repository. We know the Adders are okay with being wasteful when it comes to the Spirits (the blurb in WoR about orbital bombardment says almost exactly this sentiment, lol), and since they were treating the Spirits' destruction as a de facto Annihilation anyway, it really makes sense that they'd consign the Spirits' genetic material to oblivion rather than honor it by using it.
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I have taken your thoughts to mind and decided a Genetic Repository isn't the way to go. Rather now I'm going to do Blood Spirit Blood Chapels instead with a laboratory complex at the center of it all.
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I have taken your thoughts to mind and decided a Genetic Repository isn't the way to go. Rather now I'm going to do Blood Spirit Blood Chapels instead with a laboratory complex at the center of it all.
Oooh, Blood Chapels would be a lot of fun, I think! I like this set-up.
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Yeah, I felt the Spirits’ canon fate to be one of the worst parts of the WoR book. Not because of my love for them, but because it was simply bland, predictable and lackluster. I too felt it would’ve been much more entertaining to see them reach rapprochement with the Adders by destroying (or helping to destroy) the resurgent Burrocks. Yet they were destroyed instead, and the Coyotes were ludicrously allowed to survive betraying the Clans. It’s what put me off BattleTech for a while.
The pass the coyotes got really grinds me as well! And I am sorry while the scorpion empire is cool I would have rather the spirits gotten that spot.
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The pass the coyotes got really grinds me as well! And I am sorry while the scorpion empire is cool I would have rather the spirits gotten that spot.
Or at least some of the Blood Spirits surviving like the not-named-clan or even the Fire Mandrills.
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Circling back around a bit: I’ve looked thru the MUL but that doesn’t much help for what I’m specifically looking for. Sarna lists Blood Spirit mechs that are specifically Spirit made rather than General.
What mechs did the Spirits produce from like the General List? Omnis or Standard? I’m just looking to fill out a composition (avoiding SL Royal designs) and just trying to find a good homegrown machine so to speak.
If I can’t figure anything out I’ll just head back to the MUL, but my search fu has always been weak and you all know the Spirits better than I.
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CBS & CFM refugees (fugitives, depending on your point of view) ala Scorpions and Hellions. ... maybe some ex pats from CC, CCC or CSV, even *gasp* CSA? Would think someone in the group would have to "grow-up" and learn to re-work together.
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Or at least some of the Blood Spirits surviving like the not-named-clan or even the Fire Mandrills.
Never forget that in the War of Reaving Book and the supplement the Blood Spirit symbol in the margins wasn't removed even after there destruction.
Just covered in bullet scars.
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did all clans train on Strana Mechty prior to Operation Klondke
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did all clans train on Strana Mechty prior to Operation Klondke
Yes.
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During the Golden Century did the Spirit's make any improvements in clan weapons
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During the Golden Century did the Spirit's make any improvements in clan weapons
Per Era Digest: Golden Century, it looks like the Blood Spirits were the ones to update the AMS to Clan-spec in 2831.
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Per Era Digest: Golden Century, it looks like the Blood Spirits were the ones to update the AMS to Clan-spec in 2831.
I wonder if that means the Burrocks were big LRM users?
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I wonder if that means the Burrocks were big LRM users?
Maybe so. Possibly Clan Mongoose, even. Those two Clans were the ones that attacked the Blood Spirits the most during that time.
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Given the Spirits' need to lean hard into durability, that actually kind of makes sense. Functionally, it's just a computer-directed machine gun -- and machine guns had been built in some form or another for a millennia at that point -- that improves durability by shooting down missiles. Simple in operation, simple to build, extends longevity of your 'Mechs.
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Given the Spirits' need to lean hard into durability, that actually kind of makes sense. Functionally, it's just a computer-directed machine gun -- and machine guns had been built in some form or another for a millennia at that point -- that improves durability by shooting down missiles. Simple in operation, simple to build, extends longevity of your 'Mechs.
100% agree with this. Plus, the Spirits got a lot of mileage out of LRM-equipped units if their signature designs are anything to go by, so who better to know the value in reducing the effectiveness of missile weaponry.
I also think the Burrocks could have been big proponents of LRM racks. All the better to find some of the holes caused by their preferred big-bore weaponry, and in my eyes the Clan LRM system was a great equalizer for Burrock Warriors sent off to raid the Spirits. The ability to acquire a missile lock at a range equal to your enemy likely doesn't require that much skill whether you're Average Q. Polczyk from the Burrocks or the product of the most demanding sibko system in the Clans like a Spirit. I know it doesn't quite work that way in the game itself, but IU it should be a weapons system the Burrocks could use just as efficiently as their ultra-elite adversaries.
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Blood Spirits protecting the Blood Chapel game finished. Ten Blood Guard Keshik vs Thirteen Star Adder Mechs and a few points of Battle Armor. Started out strong with a first kill but got spread out and defeated in detail trying to be everywhere at once. Lots of cored out mechs and blown off limbs. Surprisingly enough no head shots. Real star was a Blood Kite that just wouldn't die. I mean seriously, it lost everything except two Large Lasers and it still scored a kill. Finally cored out but it took everything sent against it. Even helped bring down a Kodiak that charged it. My Dire Wolf did well as well with a lot of damage done out. My opponents had the numbers to keep me busy and then sent extra off to destroy the Blood Chapels, which they turned into a race to see who got the most destroyed by the end if the game. Ended with three surviving mechs, none of whom would survive another turn.
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Blood Spirits protecting the Blood Chapel game finished. Ten Blood Guard Keshik vs Thirteen Star Adder Mechs and a few points of Battle Armor. Started out strong with a first kill but got spread out and defeated in detail trying to be everywhere at once. Lots of cored out mechs and blown off limbs. Surprisingly enough no head shots. Real star was a Blood Kite that just wouldn't die. I mean seriously, it lost everything except two Large Lasers and it still scored a kill. Finally cored out but it took everything sent against it. Even helped bring down a Kodiak that charged it. My Dire Wolf did well as well with a lot of damage done out. My opponents had the numbers to keep me busy and then sent extra off to destroy the Blood Chapels, which they turned into a race to see who got the most destroyed by the end if the game. Ended with three surviving mechs, none of whom would survive another turn.
Thanks for this! Except for the drubbing they took in “ prince of havoc” do we have any other write ups or battle reports on the blood guard?
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Blood Spirits protecting the Blood Chapel game finished. Ten Blood Guard Keshik vs Thirteen Star Adder Mechs and a few points of Battle Armor. Started out strong with a first kill but got spread out and defeated in detail trying to be everywhere at once. Lots of cored out mechs and blown off limbs. Surprisingly enough no head shots. Real star was a Blood Kite that just wouldn't die. I mean seriously, it lost everything except two Large Lasers and it still scored a kill. Finally cored out but it took everything sent against it. Even helped bring down a Kodiak that charged it. My Dire Wolf did well as well with a lot of damage done out. My opponents had the numbers to keep me busy and then sent extra off to destroy the Blood Chapels, which they turned into a race to see who got the most destroyed by the end if the game. Ended with three surviving mechs, none of whom would survive another turn.
(Bolded for emphasis)
This is what the Blood Kite does. It is the best example of a Clan Zombie 'Mech. It even has the sinks to still be able to fire those ER Larges and only overheat by movement. It is actually why I have a mixed opinion of the Blood Kite 2, which has more punch...but doesn't keep fighting until you kill it.
This is also why I really don't like the Crossbow and Battle Cobra in the Blood Spirit Touman...because they are knocked out of the fight quickly because arms go quick in BattleTech.
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(Bolded for emphasis)
This is what the Blood Kite does. It is the best example of a Clan Zombie 'Mech. It even has the sinks to still be able to fire those ER Larges and only overheat by movement. It is actually why I have a mixed opinion of the Blood Kite 2, which has more punch...but doesn't keep fighting until you kill it.
This is also why I really don't like the Crossbow and Battle Cobra in the Blood Spirit Touman...because they are knocked out of the fight quickly because arms go quick in BattleTech.
And yet the model is so fugly! Any chance we could get a plastic someday? I mean that’s pretty off the common Mech list
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And yet the model is so fugly! Any chance we could get a plastic someday? I mean that’s pretty off the common Mech list
There’s always a chance. I would say it’s next to none. It’s never been used by any IS based clan, even back when we were All in the home worlds. Best hope would be some tomfoolery like what got the Blood Asp back into production. Maybe the Scorps, they had the most exposure to it
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I have a metal mini of the Blood Kite, I always thought it was kinda cool. Only the head & ER LL coming out of it make me think otherwise.
staring at it now, and it really is odd-looking, but still one of favorite designs.
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I have two or three. I love their fugliness.
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I have a metal mini of the Blood Kite, I always thought it was kinda cool. Only the head & ER LL coming out of it make me think otherwise.
staring at it now, and it really is odd-looking, but still one of favorite designs.
I mean it truly looks like a machine designed only for killing! Perhaps a fan funding to get a new sculpt?
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I mean it truly looks like a machine designed only for killing! Perhaps a fan funding to get a new sculpt?
Ask Speck. I've gotten warships sculpted that way.
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how much activity was there between the Spirits and Wolverines before the trial of anhiliation ie technology and commerce
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how much activity was there between the Spirits and Wolverines before the trial of anhiliation ie technology and commerce
It was the early days of the Clans but the Spirits were among the few allies the Wolverines had and the Blood Spirits paid for there sympathy. The Burrocks would target them for it.
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Not just the Burrocks, but Nicky himself chastised them and that was a big emotional blow to the Spirits as a whole and to Colleen Schmidt in particular.
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A small but important thing to keep in mind as well: the Wolverines' uncensored symbol (as part of a mosaic depicting all the Clans' symbols) was on display in Blood Spirit Hall on York, the only place it still existed in Clan space.
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A small but important thing to keep in mind as well: the Wolverines' uncensored symbol (as part of a mosaic depicting all the Clans' symbols) was on display in Blood Spirit Hall on York, the only place it still existed in Clan space.
ORLY? Where is this detail I’ve missed?
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ORLY? Where is this detail I’ve missed?
The BattleCorps story "Tears of Blood", chapter 1, by Randall Bills.
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The BattleCorps story "Tears of Blood", chapter 1, by Randall Bills.
Damn why is all the good stuff from BattleCorps lol.
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Because we can't have nice things.
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Mongoose also decided to raid CBS, not so much of an issue once CSJ took them out.
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The BattleCorps story "Tears of Blood", chapter 1, by Randall Bills.
Damn, I hope I have that one saved on my old laptop.
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I love that I can go years without even glancing at the boards, let alone logging into them, and can be almost assured that there's an active & ongoing Blood Spirit thread still. Y'all are an absolute credit to the fandom.
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Isn't it amazing that one of the smallest (and now deadest) Clans, one that's spent the entirety of their publication history trying NOT to get involved with everyone else's nonsense, has such an active thread? ;D
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They have an odd place in the fandom. Yes they might have been ‘Annihilated’ but they never were really the bad guys. They were always on the bottom of the Clans in terms of power rankings but they have elite pilots and fairly decent machines. They got hit with the beat stick a few too many times but even then put up a hell of a fight: they always hd the big bully of the Star Adders picking on them. And despite being the initial clan of inter-Clan unity they devolved into one of the more anti-social clans, only to try and change that and get beaten down before it got anywhere. And despite being founded by a descendant of the Black Watch (who espoused all the same ideals for her Clan), they got shoved to the side rather than given a position of a similar nature (thanks to Nicky Ks ‘perfect ideal of the feuding Clans’).
Just my two cents: I like them and their tech.
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I love that I can go years without even glancing at the boards, let alone logging into them, and can be almost assured that there's an active & ongoing Blood Spirit thread still. Y'all are an absolute credit to the fandom.
I really do think it says something about our players. I think all of us connected to the Blood Spirits in more than just a "Oh! Cool Clan under dogs!" way. I think there were a number of factors that make the connection of many Blood Spirit fans personal. I identified with them most for their being the ones who *WANTED* to get along with the other Clans, who genuinely tried to build bridges and reach out to others, and got smacked down for it. It kinda touches on a number of personal things for me. I saw myself in them.
And, I think that is the case for many Blood Spirit fans.
Though, a part of me also takes delight that the Blood Spirit threads have stayed more active, generally, than even the Big Two Clans of Wolf and Jade Falcon. Our fandom is the cockroaches of BattleTech: we will still be here after the nukes fall!
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I still believe there are Blood Spirit survivors out there. And there just biding there time till they get there revenge.
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I still believe there are Blood Spirit survivors out there. And they're just biding their time till they get there revenge.
I think that is what we are all hoping. More secret locations, secret factories and gene facilities, that there was enough paranoia that we did not put all our eggs in one basket, as it were.
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I think that is what we are all hoping. More secret locations, secret factories and gene facilities, that there was enough paranoia that we did not put all our eggs in one basket, as it were.
Well, and then? Reviving of the Adder-Spirit conflict? Do you really want this?
Again this hateful conflict of two Home Clans, wasting their sparse resources in futiles battles?
I would rather have the Homeclans as a real serious adversery of the ilClan/3rd League. Capable to resist them, not only for a short conflict for giving Alaric and his Minions just another campaign ribbon.
I rather would like to have the original Spirits bloodlines revived by the Star Adders.
Both Clans very similar in their philosophy and ideology (both are utterly convinced that the Inner sphere could be defeated by all Clans united), both did suffered brutal attacks by other Clans in the past. But while the Adders prevailed, the Sprits went down the path of bitterness and isolation.
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The best revenge would be for the Star Adders to never show up in print again.
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The best revenge would be for the Star Adders to never show up in print again.
::)
Quite unforgiving you are, are not you?
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The Homeworld populations are in the middle of nowhere with a total population not worth talking about. The best revenge for the Spirits would be to make a deal with the Taurians and live happy lives among people.
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::)
Quite unforgiving you are, are not you?
There's nothing for me to "forgive", because I don't take fictional stuff personally, so go (t)roll your eyes somewhere else.
That said, I do think it's delicious irony that the Star Adders have basically become their most hated enemies: friendless and alone in an isolation of their own making, with the odds of them ever making an appearance again (outside of the upcoming Brush Wars: Absorption War book) pretty much nil. A fitting end for them.
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I always figured that a fanatical faction in lore breeds fanatical fans of the faction -- and few other BT factions have as fanatical membership in the lore as the Blood Spirits.
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The Homeworld populations are in the middle of nowhere with a total population not worth talking about. The best revenge for the Spirits would be to make a deal with the Taurians and live happy lives among people.
If they haven’t already. Their death always seemed to easy. In my opinion death by orbital bombardment can’t destroy everything.
For the Homeworld Clans the longer we don’t hear from them the more I think they have blasted themselves to the Stone Age.
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Kind of figure if the Spirits had survived they went deep into the Periphery as far from the Homeworlds and settled down to rebuild. That or the Blood Avatar route. Maybe at best a pirate faction. As for the Star Adders by this point I'm betting they have either conquered the other remaining Homeworld Clans or broke up into factions.
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There is only one reason ‘Blood Avatar’ pissed me off and that’s because in 1,131 years (Published Date to In Game Date) they STILL have not cured Type One Diabetes (which I suffer from) and that is annoying lol
The story is what it is (sorta outta place in the BT universe) and definitely one of the lesser rated novels but that realization will always illogically anger me.
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"Blood Avatar" may be out of place, but it's a better-written novel than at least half of the novels in the line, and I enjoyed reading something different than the same tired old BattleTech tropes. A palate cleanser, if you will.
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"Blood Avatar" may be out of place, but it's a better-written novel than at least half of the novels in the line, and I enjoyed reading something different than the same tired old BattleTech tropes. A palate cleanser, if you will.
It's a fair mystery novel if nothing else.
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"Blood Avatar" may be out of place, but it's a better-written novel than at least half of the novels in the line, and I enjoyed reading something different than the same tired old BattleTech tropes. A palate cleanser, if you will.
"A palate cleanser" is the best way to describe it. I love my meat & potato 'Mech battles, but every now and then, throwing in a salad for a change of pace is pretty welcome.
But it's also one of the few in the DA line that I have two hard copies of (original and PoD) so I might be a little biased.
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"A palate cleanser" is the best way to describe it. I love my meat & potato 'Mech battles, but every now and then, throwing in a salad for a change of pace is pretty welcome.
But it's also one of the few in the DA line that I have two hard copies of (original and PoD) so I might be a little biased.
With the closeness that developed between the spirits and the mandrills was there ever any documented mixed sibkos made?
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did the Blood Spirits do a lot of exploring during the early part of their history for new planet to colonize
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did the Blood Spirits do a lot of exploring during the early part of their history for new planet to colonize
They did, but every new colony kept getting clobbered by raids, due to the ongoing bullying by the Burrocks and other anti-Blood Spirit Clans, so they ended up with less territory than most.
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mongeese were also in on the raiding ...
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The Blood Spirits seemed to be one of the Clans with a interest in exploration. Far more than most other Clans who seemed content to remain within there spheres of power.
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did the Blood Spirit;s have much success with their naval forces during their history seyla
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did the Blood Spirit;s have much success with their naval forces during their history seyla
Nope. Traded most of their fleet to the Snow Ravens for some magic beans.
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Nope. Traded most of their fleet to the Snow Ravens for some magic beans.
I would respectfully disagree they should traded excess warships they could not maintain for a significant infusion of 2nd line mechs which allowed them to rebuild their depleted touman. Their small fleet fought well and held its own against much larger forces.
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well, they rebuilt their touman then threw it against a wall. CSA did have author-shield going strong though (well more like not written into the outline)
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The Spirits throwing so much of themselves into the Viper Annihilation was really silly to me. That's the time they should've sent a token force and sat back to lick their wounds and regroup. It was the only part of WoR that I thought was a little suspect.
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The Spirits throwing so much of themselves into the Viper Annihilation was really silly to me. That's the time they should've sent a token force and sat back to lick their wounds and regroup. It was the only part of WoR that I thought was a little suspect.
Agreed, the only reason I can even think of why they would have done as they did was the hope to gain assets from the Annihilation.
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The Adders were really the leadership after the Vipers became the target. Reading WoR, I really hoped that the Adder Khans would see the fervency and commitment of the Spirits in throwing themselves against the Vipers and say "You know what? They are decent people, we will cut them slack."
But alas, thus was not to be.
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The Adders were really the leadership after the Vipers became the target. Reading WoR, I really hoped that the Adder Khans would see the fervency and commitment of the Spirits in throwing themselves against the Vipers and say "You know what? They are decent people, we will cut them slack."
But alas, thus was not to be.
IMHO if the Spirits have come back to the Grand Council and other Clans after the end of the WoR, there might have been a reconciliation. Maybe even the Star Adders might have been willing to cool down the blood feud. For some years there was no fighting between reported
But after the Spirits ran havoc after Coyotes and Stone lions won some possessions in their Haven system, they showed they would never return to the Clans.
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IMHO if the Spirits have come back to the Grand Council and other Clans after the end of the WoR, there might have been a reconciliation. Maybe even the Star Adders might have been willing to cool down the blood feud. For some years there was no fighting between reported
But after the Spirits ran havoc after Coyotes and Stone lions won some possessions in their Haven system, they showed they would never return to the Clans.
Biggest mistake was settling in the Haven System. They should have pushed farther put into the Periphery or pulled up stakes and headed for the Inner Sphere. They might have been able to make a deal with the Snow Ravens.
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Biggest mistake was settling in the Haven System. They should have pushed farther put into the Periphery or pulled up stakes and headed for the Inner Sphere. They might have been able to make a deal with the Snow Ravens.
That would have given the Snow Ravens a much needed boost in ground force as well as saving another Clan from destruction.
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IMHO if the Spirits have come back to the Grand Council and other Clans after the end of the WoR, there might have been a reconciliation. Maybe even the Star Adders might have been willing to cool down the blood feud. For some years there was no fighting between reported
But after the Spirits ran havoc after Coyotes and Stone lions won some possessions in their Haven system, they showed they would never return to the Clans.
Oh, please. The Adders were never going to let the Spirits be. They murdered tens of millions on York out of spite.
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Oh, please. The Adders were never going to let the Spirits be. They murdered tens of millions on York out of spite.
They had their reason (Clan-logic). The whole Blood Feud was a greart slaughter wherein both did not show mercy to neither warriors nor civilians of the other Clan.
After the WoR the situation had changed, a new invasion was something all the surviving Home Clans wanted. if the Spirits would hjave fall back into the line, there is grear a chance the Blood Feud might have stopped or at least postponed.
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They had their reason (Clan-logic).
Yes. Spite. Like I said.
The whole Blood Feud was a greart slaughter wherein both did not show mercy to neither warriors nor civilians of the other Clan.
Except the Blood Spirits never committed genocide on a planetary scale like the Adders did, nor have they ever been shown to make a point of slaughtering civilians in general (with the sole exception of what they did to the Indicass enclaves, out of revenge for York).
I think that's the only good thing that came out of the conflict: the Adders threw away their supposed honor and became even worse than that which they were fighting. Well, that and the fact that the Spirits went out like warriors and the Adders, thanks to the moratorium on the Clan Homeworlds, are consigned to obscurity where they belong.
After the WoR the situation had changed, a new invasion was something all the surviving Home Clans wanted. if the Spirits would hjave fall back into the line, there is grear a chance the Blood Feud might have stopped or at least postponed.
The Spirits were never going to "fall back into line", and the Adders knew they wouldn't. The Adders went out of their way, time and time again, to antagonize and bully the Spirits. This is not a realistic scenario for either of them.
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That would have given the Snow Ravens a much needed boost in ground force as well as saving another Clan from destruction.
Exactly, they could have had a deal like the Hells Horses had with the Wolves. Imagine the Spirits with a couple of worlds under the cover of the Ravens Guns?
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I agree that their full on assault of the Vipers was silly. Even the honor gained was abysmal. CSA literally watched everyone else go headlong into the fray when they should have been the ones doing that. For everyone else's part they obliged and did it ...
I think it would have been more dynamic if the Adders chewed themselves up taking the Vipers down. CFM & CBS may still be around.
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I agree that their full on assault of the Vipers was silly. Even the honor gained was abysmal. CSA literally watched everyone else go headlong into the fray when they should have been the ones doing that. For everyone else's part they obliged and did it ...
I think it would have been more dynamic if the Adders chewed themselves up taking the Vipers down. CFM & CBS may still be around.
The sad part was there was little materially gained. No new mechwarriors as bondsman, no significant salvage, no raw resources. It was a waste
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The sad part was there was little materially gained. No new mechwarriors as bondsman, no significant salvage, no raw resources. It was a waste
Very on brand for them…
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After the WoR the situation had changed, a new invasion was something all the surviving Home Clans wanted. if the Spirits would hjave fall back into the line, there is grear a chance the Blood Feud might have stopped or at least postponed.
The Blood Spirits two greatest mistakes: Letting Karianna Schmidt become Khan again, and refusing to trade with the Cloud Cobras when they stumbled upon Haven.
Karianna might have led the Spirits through a very trying time...but she lost herself to the feud. Any other, and I mean ANY other Khan would have recognized that the Clans are stronger together. But all Schmidt saw was the vendetta. And it got worse after she "recovered" from her nearly fatal injuries.
When the Cloud Cobras found the Haven system, it had a number of things going for it that the rest of the Clan Homeworlds didn't: It was resource rich, and, at that time, it was known only to the Cloud Cobras and the Blood Spirits. The two clans could have turned it into a mutually beneficial arrangement, especially as the Cobras, while going along with the Adders, seemed to chafe at the Adders controlling so much. And, refusing to trade was the signal that the Spirits were not going to work with the other Clans. If a CLan was not going to work with the others, than, like the Not-Named before, that Clan needed to be made an example of for the sake of Unity...
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I think that's the only good thing that came out of the conflict: the Adders threw away their supposed honor and became even worse than that which they were fighting. Well, that and the fact that the Spirits went out like warriors and the Adders, thanks to the moratorium on the Clan Homeworlds, are consigned to obscurity where they belong.
Yeah. It really feels like the Absorbtion of the Burrocks caused the Star Adders to become the Burrocks for the most part.
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Yeah. It really feels like the Absorbtion of the Burrocks caused the Star Adders to become the Burrocks for the most part.
Considering that the Burrock Absorption essentially doubled the size of the Adders, as it was a suspiciously bloodless Trial, except for the Blood Spirit intervention/interference(depending on your perspective). The story was that the rank and file Burrocks didn't know about the deals their leaders were doing with the Dark Caste, and so felt shame, and let the Adders take them. As we found out later, of course, this wasn't entirely true, and some within the Adders were even swayed by the Burrocks.
However, I also think that the Burrock...ethical flexibility helped the Adders survive the Wars of Reaving. I mean, you had, by that point, almost 2 generations of Warriors with the merging of the cultures of the two Clans. That is enough to alter the thinking of the Clan as a whole. And then, you had the common enemy and sheer hatred towards the Blood Spirits due to the Blood Spirit actions during the Absorption, and the Burrocks able to go "See! We told you the Blood Spirits are dishonorable and fallen from the Way of Kerensky! They interfere in a Trial that the call for ends in 'In this solemn rite, let none interfere!'"
Basicly, no matter how right it was for Blood Spirit to have interfered, the doom of the Blood Spirits was that decision, and the decision to not trade with the Cloud Cobras at Haven. If either of those two things had not happened, Blood Spirit might still be around.
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Part of the issue was the Spirits long term isolation policy. They were generally ignored and rarely raided and kind of expected if they didn't take part in the post WoR world they could be left alone to rebuild. Which might have worked if the Cloud Cobras hadn't left known Clan Space and discovered the Haven System. Which was a fluke more than anything. How often do Clan Jumpships go exploring beyond there normal spheres of influence?
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How often do Clan Jumpships go exploring beyond there normal spheres of influence?
It seems like they make fairly frequent patrols in the regions around the Kerensky Cluster and the Pentagon Worlds, because dark caste enclaves are noted as having to build in secret, hidden places, and still have to move every few months to avoid detection. If the Clans never left their core systems, the Dark Caste enclaves could live safely in permanent enclaves on the periphery of the Cluster.
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Considering that the Burrock Absorption essentially doubled the size of the Adders, as it was a suspiciously bloodless Trial, except for the Blood Spirit intervention/interference(depending on your perspective).
This isn't really the case. The Adders had 10 Galaxies pre-Absorption, and ended up with 11 Galaxies post-Absorption, so the most we can really say is that the Absorbed Burrocks merely replenished the rank and file. And it definitely wasn't suspiciously bloodless: on the Burrocks' capital of Albion alone, four Burrock Galaxies vigorously defended against the three attacking Adder Galaxies. After the surviving ranking Burrock officer prepared to Trial against Khan N'Buta, then the Spirits jumped into the fray, and the rest is, well, history.
Very on brand for them…
I'm gonna disagree with that. The Spirits' interference in the Burrock Absorption was the culmination of a centuries-long feud and wasn't "on brand" for them at all, as they'd gone to great lengths not to mix it up with the other Clans. The Spirits throwing themselves into the Viper Annihilation was an outlier and held no real purpose for them other than the writer wanting to chew them up before letting the Adders finish the job later.
Basicly, no matter how right it was for Blood Spirit to have interfered, the doom of the Blood Spirits was that decision, and the decision to not trade with the Cloud Cobras at Haven. If either of those two things had not happened, Blood Spirit might still be around.
That was the Lions, not the Cobras. The Lions' loremaster got her feelings hurt so she had her Watch steal the location of the colonies from the Spirits, exchanged that information with the Cobras, then came in with the Coyotes later to take what they wanted from the Spirits. The Cobras were the only Clan left that didn't try to prey on the Spirits, but dealt honorably with them.
The Spirits were never going to survive, especially not after the Adders took the top-dog spot. Though some of their fans like to insinuate otherwise, the Adders were as deeply hateful of the Spirits as the Spirits were of them (you don't spend nearly three weeks straight orbitally bombarding the Spirits' homeworld and murdering tens of millions without a massive amount of hatred), and this was always going to happen. I mean, the Coyotes straight up betrayed the Clans entirely and helped facilitate a caste revolution against the warrior caste and the Adders more or less let them skate on that... but when it came time to punish the Spirits, the Adders went for overkill intentionally, not even making much of a pretense of carrying out an Absorption but straight up Annihilating them. That should tell one all they need to know.
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It seems like they make fairly frequent patrols in the regions around the Kerensky Cluster and the Pentagon Worlds, because dark caste enclaves are noted as having to build in secret, hidden places, and still have to move every few months to avoid detection. If the Clans never left their core systems, the Dark Caste enclaves could live safely in permanent enclaves on the periphery of the Cluster.
If that was true the Haven System would have been discovered much earlier in the Clans history and settled. And the Haven System was pretty close to Clan Space proper.
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If that was true the Haven System would have been discovered much earlier in the Clans history and settled. And the Haven System was pretty close to Clan Space proper.
Clan colonization efforts died out by the end of the Golden Century, pretty much. Every time a Clan tried to start a new colony, they got deluged by Trials of Possession that made the effort spent not worth it.
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I agree that their full on assault of the Vipers was silly. Even the honor gained was abysmal. CSA literally watched everyone else go headlong into the fray when they should have been the ones doing that. For everyone else's part they obliged and did it ...
The Spirits, I think, probably went in gladly with cries of "Remember Tokasha!" on their lips, as the Vipers did them dirty there, humiliated Khan Troy Boques, and killed nearly the entirety of 3 whole Galaxies with dezgra tactics. While the Adders likely never lost their place on the front-and-center of the Spirits' dartboard, the Vipers were probably just a hair below that for that battle and elsewhere during the Reavings.
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Clan colonization efforts died out by the end of the Golden Century, pretty much. Every time a Clan tried to start a new colony, they got deluged by Trials of Possession that made the effort spent not worth it.
The question was scouting out worlds for bandit caste enclaves as well. The Haven System was undiscovered in that regard. And as noted, it's just outside Clan Space proper. So it should have been discovered far earlier in the Homeworlds history.
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The question was scouting out worlds for bandit caste enclaves as well. The Haven System was undiscovered in that regard. And as noted, it's just outside Clan Space proper. So it should have been discovered far earlier in the Homeworlds history.
Not necessarily. They could've just missed it, or not gotten around to exploring in that direction yet. But the Clans were definitely active in exploration of the Deep Periphery around them even after the Golden Century; MechWarrior's Guide to the Clans has a whole little section on page 73 talking about the Clans having their own small-scale version of the Explorer Corps, organized by individual Clans and reporting to senior naval authorities, that seeks out new worlds suitable for colonization or resource extraction within the Kerensky Cluster and the Deep Periphery. The Explorer Corps book also dives into this a fair bit, and notes that even non-Invading Clans have patrols out in the Deep Periphery. Then of course you have the most well-known example: the Cobras' discovery of the Tanite worlds in the Political Century. So the Clans definitely have had a consistent presence out there.
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What are some of the things you're looking forward to reading about in the upcoming Absorption War historical? I'm really keen on learning more about the fallen Spirit Galaxies that went in but didn't return. I also dream of a Tukayyid-style gallery of paint schemes of all the participating units, in addition to any other quality art they have in there. It is a matter of objective fact that the Spirits have some of the best-looking paint schemes in all of BattleTech, so I think there will be eye-candy aplenty.
Also, more deets on the hated Burrocks, may their Iron Wombs forever be the latrines of surats. :D
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That's pretty much what I'm looking forward to as well. Oh, and the Spirits' other WarShips, like the Carmine Justice. And more details about the saKhan, Daryl Keller. Very, very excited for this product!
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That's pretty much what I'm looking forward to as well. Oh, and the Spirits' other WarShips, like the Carmine Justice. And more details about the saKhan, Daryl Keller. Very, very excited for this product!
What is this now?
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What are some of the things you're looking forward to reading about in the upcoming Absorption War historical? I'm really keen on learning more about the fallen Spirit Galaxies that went in but didn't return. I also dream of a Tukayyid-style gallery of paint schemes of all the participating units, in addition to any other quality art they have in there. It is a matter of objective fact that the Spirits have some of the best-looking paint schemes in all of BattleTech, so I think there will be eye-candy aplenty.
Also, more deets on the hated Burrocks, may their Iron Wombs forever be the latrines of surats. :D
I want more details about Star Colonel Tanica Campbell being an absolute boss on Priori.
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did the Blood spirits ever use a Blood Name Founding
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did the Blood spirits ever use a Blood Name Founding
Per the Edict of Severance, any Blood Spirits that ended up in the Inner Sphere (as bondsmen, etc.) would have had the right to re-Found their Bloodhouse based on either their matrilineal or patrilineal ancestry, with an initial cap of ten Bloodrights.
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What is this now?
The upcoming Brush Wars coverage of the Absorption War.
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The upcoming Brush Wars coverage of the Absorption War.
Oh nice: I didn’t see this
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The spirits were known to be pretty heavy vehicle users so I need some advice:
I am building an alpha galaxy force which is mainly faster mediums or hard charging heavy’s and of course the blood guard is a glacier of metal ( all assaults or heavy’s)
Was there a spirit unit that used a lot of tanks? I have a nice collection of heavier/slow tanks now. Would that pair well with a speedy Mech force?
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The spirits were known to be pretty heavy vehicle users so I need some advice:
I am building an alpha galaxy force which is mainly faster mediums or hard charging heavy’s and of course the blood guard is a glacier of metal ( all assaults or heavy’s)
Was there a spirit unit that used a lot of tanks? I have a nice collection of heavier/slow tanks now. Would that pair well with a speedy Mech force?
Considering how traditional their clusters were you would have a trinary (30 vehicles) with 3 trinaries of mechs and a trinary of infantry. Based on what you said the heavy tanks could support the “glacier of metal”.
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iirc in FM Crusader Clans they went as far as to make each star: 3 Mechs, 1 vehicle point (2), 1 infantry point (25 or 5). *if only I knew where my FM was*
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Maybe a PCG from the Wars of Reaving era?
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pretty sure it was FM:CC because it described CBS as very tradition bound and it was Nicholas K. who put forth the initial composition of combat star.
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iirc in FM Crusader Clans they went as far as to make each star: 3 Mechs, 1 vehicle point (2), 1 infantry point (25 or 5). *if only I knew where my FM was*
It was a for a cluster, and it was 3 Mech Trinaries, 1 Vehicle Trinary, and 1 Infantry Trinary. I made the same mistake myself, though, and I will admit that I did like that set up for a star, and have often used it.
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It was a for a cluster, and it was 3 Mech Trinaries, 1 Vehicle Trinary, and 1 Infantry Trinary. I made the same mistake myself, though, and I will admit that I did like that set up for a star, and have often used it.
AHA! ... thank you very much, burnt brain cells and all!
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AHA! ... thank you very much, burnt brain cells and all!
No, it was actually a very easy mistake to make. IIRC, they were talking about stuff related to Star composition just before it, so a brain reading all that data at once can easily cross-wire it to be Points in a Star, not Trinaries in a Cluster. I had made that mistake, myself.
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Infantry would be replaced with Battle Armor of course. I doubt the Blood Spirits were training up a ton of infantry just to have them stand around. The bidding process would have them never be used!
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Infantry would be replaced with Battle Armor of course. I doubt the Blood Spirits were training up a ton of infantry just to have them stand around. The bidding process would have them never be used!
Did you ever see the stats for the Heavy Infantry Point? That was bloody scary! I would actually feat that more than a point of Elementals
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It does seem to carry its own weight! I like that unit. I'd like to see a solid standard unit too, one without so many washed out elementals. *note: washed out does not mean ineffective.
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Did you ever see the stats for the Heavy Infantry Point? That was bloody scary! I would actually feat that more than a point of Elementals
If I did I can't say I remember. Which book is it in?
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TRO 3085. Even if such units made up only a fraction of the total Spirit infantry force (I'd imagine the basic Clan Foot/Motorized/Mechanized units would be much more common), I'd bet that HI would be much more common anywhere 'Mechs and Vees were. Thinking on it, Spirit infantry of all stripes were probably eating good with those Vehicle Trinaries being staples of Spirit Clusters, and there are a number of ProtoMech designs that would be pretty handy in an infantry support role.
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TRO 3085. Even if such units made up only a fraction of the total Spirit infantry force (I'd imagine the basic Clan Foot/Motorized/Mechanized units would be much more common), I'd bet that HI would be much more common anywhere 'Mechs and Vees were. Thinking on it, Spirit infantry of all stripes were probably eating good with those Vehicle Trinaries being staples of Spirit Clusters, and there are a number of ProtoMech designs that would be pretty handy in an infantry support role.
Thanks. It's been years since I've gone through my copy of 3085.
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During Clan exploration for new planets Did the Spirits look for back towards the inner sphere ?
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During Clan exploration for new planets Did the Spirits look for back towards the inner sphere ?
For security purposes, after the Wolverine Annihilation, all copies of Deep Periphery star charts were split up among the Clans, so that only through a unanimous decision of the Grand Council could any ship be authorized to chart a course back to Terra. The Exodus Road charts remained split up and sealed until 2980, when they were reunited to facilitate IntelSer missions to the Inner Sphere.
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I think he's asking if the Spirits moved rimward (i.e., towards the Inner Sphere) in their explorations.
And we honestly don't know. The only system outside of the Kerensky Cluster that we know for sure they explored was Colleen, and that wasn't in a rimward direction from York.
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During Clan exploration for new planets Did the Spirits look for back towards the inner sphere ?
If their plans were to leave the Homeworlds similar to the IS clans and Scorpions I would think it was to avoid reprisals (sadly did not work out for them).
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I'm not sure on the direction, but during the Clans colonization & expansion period the first world the Blood Spirits found & colonized was Foster (Field Manual Crusader Clans, pg 23)
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They sent out several jumpships to look for a fallback position. I'm hoping that the hints from Blood Avatar that some of the Spirits had made there way to the Inner Sphere.
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They sent out several jumpships to look for a fallback position. I'm hoping that the hints from Blood Avatar that some of the Spirits had made there way to the Inner Sphere.
I'll always hold onto the hope from that novel but I'm sure the entire thing was written as a red herring or some other handwavium stuff later on.
But my headcanon definitely says otherwise. ;)
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I was looking at some Clan Refits on MUL and I realized that the Clan unit entries usually doesn't start earlier than Clan Invasion Era for faction availability. Got me wondering what Golden Century Clan Refits the Blood Spirits would had sitting around.
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I was looking at some Clan Refits on MUL and I realized that the Clan unit entries usually doesn't start earlier than Clan Invasion Era for faction availability. Got me wondering what Golden Century Caln Refits the Blood Spirits would had sitting around.
That’s why I love them! Any old school refit I just assume the spirits would have as they were always scrounging to keep their forces equipped
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Im surprised Stalker never got a clan refit. It was one of the workhorses in assault category for SLDF...
That one would had been up our alley since you have the Blood Kite with very similar loadout.
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Clan refit of Royal Stalker 3Fb https://bg.battletech.com/forums/battlemechs/stalker-c/
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Im surprised Stalker never got a clan refit. It was one of the workhorses in assault category for SLDF...
That one would had been up our alley since you have the Blood Kite with very similar loadout.
Wolf Dragoons did a Stalker refit with Clantech, the STK-3F Stalker Jamison:
The 2 Large Lasers were replaced with 2 Large Pulse Lasers.
The 4 medium lasers upgraded to 4 ER medium lasers.
The 2 LRM10 are replaced by 2 LRM20 launchers.
Two ammo-efficient Streak SRM-6s are used.
Eighteen Clan-spec double heat sinks are mounted.
Ferro-fibrous armor is used .
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Wolf Dragoons did a Stalker refit with Clantech, the STK-3F Stalker Jamison:
The 2 Large Lasers were replaced with 2 Large Pulse Lasers.
The 4 medium lasers upgraded to 4 ER medium lasers.
The 2 LRM10 are replaced by 2 LRM20 launchers.
Two ammo-efficient Streak SRM-6s are used.
Eighteen Clan-spec double heat sinks are mounted.
Ferro-fibrous armor is used .
I know the Blood Spirits could never field it but I would like to see Stalkers with Streak LRMS.
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I know the Blood Spirits could never field it but I would like to see Stalkers with Streak LRMS.
The Coyotes might refit such a model.
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Wolf Dragoons did a Stalker refit with Clantech, the STK-3F Stalker Jamison:
The 2 Large Lasers were replaced with 2 Large Pulse Lasers.
The 4 medium lasers upgraded to 4 ER medium lasers.
The 2 LRM10 are replaced by 2 LRM20 launchers.
Two ammo-efficient Streak SRM-6s are used.
Eighteen Clan-spec double heat sinks are mounted.
Ferro-fibrous armor is used .
Yeah I know about the Wolf Dragoon "Custom". Shame it wasn't put into production or the Clans made a similar refit at all.
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Heck, 'simply' upgrade all the standard weapons with clan improved types from I.O. ... you'd get enough weight left over for some armor and SHS.
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I derped and didn't realize our Blood Kite was a 85 tonner, I thought she was 100 tonner the whole time. Which basically mean to me she's the Clan Stalker.
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I can kinda see that ... LLs, LRMs, SRMs it fits.
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The Stalker might he a design that became rare over the years. Every Clan probably used any they had up in trials over the decades and aby left were buried in caches or museums.
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https://bg.battletech.com/forums/battlemechs/spirit-walker-mkii/
EndoStructure. A LAMS. And "Armor mistake" was not repeated.
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**MOD NOTICE**
Hey there, lovely Blood Spirit friends. Just a reminder that posting customs outside of the customs section is frowned upon. Nobody is in trouble or catching a warning, but I split off the last four posts into their own topic and moved them to the Battlemech customs thread.
For future reference, this:
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/battlemechs/spirit-walker-mkii/
EndoStructure. A LAMS. And "Armor mistake" was not repeated.
is pretty much the ideal way to reference your own custom outside of the custom section. Post the design where it should be and just link to it.
As always, if you have any questions, please don't hesitate to shoot me a PM.
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Whoops! may have gotten a little sidetracked there.
thanks for the new thread!
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What SL vehciles would we have bothered to refit with clan spec stuff? This assuming you already have vehicles like Shamash recom hover tank and Morrigu fire support tank.
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I mean, considering anything with an LRM would get a massive boost. I like simple upgrades ... here's some lighter weapons, get more ammo (even alt ammo types) and armor. I think the improved SRM makes a great upgrade to standard SRMs ... 12 range? yes, please!
I'm thinking easy like the Alacorn. whether improved or clan standard, replacing the GRs just makes sense. It's a wonderful rabbit hole to go down.
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I would looooooooove the Spirits to have produced Clantech Alacorns and Savannah Masters. :D
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I would looooooooove the Spirits to have produced Clantech Alacorns and Savannah Masters. :D
Alacorn: issue is triple gauss rifles which would be expensive by the criterias the BS have set for evaluating designs.
Savannah Master: We have a better one; Shamash. the 4 clan ER smalls are turret mounted too.
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Alacorn: issue is triple gauss rifles which would be expensive by the criterias the BS have set for evaluating designs.
Savannah Master: We have a better one; Shamash. the 4 clan ER smalls are turret mounted too.
just need more range, which is easily done.
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I mean, considering anything with an LRM would get a massive boost. I like simple upgrades ... here's some lighter weapons, get more ammo (even alt ammo types) and armor. I think the improved SRM makes a great upgrade to standard SRMs ... 12 range? yes, please!
I'm thinking easy like the Alacorn. whether improved or clan standard, replacing the GRs just makes sense. It's a wonderful rabbit hole to go down.
Wouldn't Improved be more "expensive" than standard Clan SRM, same for improved guass? I mean it would be better if some of the clans kept producing improved techs rather than simply being falling by wayside when they got to the final forms. Like improved autocannons? yes please. (since they cost about same, resource wise, as regular autocannons and doesn't jam UNLESS you use optional rule rapid firing, unlike the UAC.)
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just need more range, which is easily done.
The Shamash? Do what the Ghost Bears did and slap an ER Med in place of the ER smalls.
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During the clan invasion did the clans find any iiner sphere designs they liked and took them back yo the homewor;ds
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During the clan invasion did the clans find any iiner sphere designs they liked and took them back yo the homewor;ds
I think that's worth a thread of its own on the chatterweb.
If they did, the Wars of Reavings would had wiped them out. quite a shame.
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The Shamash? Do what the Ghost Bears did and slap an ER Med in place of the ER smalls.
right, missed that! perfect.
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I think that's worth a thread of its own on the chatterweb.
If they did, the Wars of Reavings would had wiped them out. quite a shame.
The Smoke Jaguars shipped back quite a large number of captured IS Mech designs. They were used in their secondline Galaxies in the Battle for Huntress.
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The Shamash? Do what the Ghost Bears did and slap an ER Med in place of the ER smalls.
Wouldn't that have been 2 ER mediums, as the Shamash has a Fusion engine?
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Wouldn't that have been 2 ER mediums, as the Shamash has a Fusion engine?
Per RS: 3085 Old is the New New, it's just the one ER Medium.
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Wouldn't that have been 2 ER mediums, as the Shamash has a Fusion engine?
No tonnage left for a second one. What it does give you over the ER smalls is a longer reach.
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Wouldn't that have been 2 ER mediums, as the Shamash has a Fusion engine?
They added an ECM Suite, either. So no more free space left for a second ER Medium Laser.
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Okay I have read up on the Improved SRM and Autocannons as well comparing them to the other clan counterparts
Improved Autocannons. Had they came out earlier in a previous rule edition, we would have seen them used on Blood Spirit designs until ProtoMech AC was invented. According to rules, they can use all specialized ammo except LB-X's cluster round. So yes in my head canon they're in common usage by the Blood Spirits instead of UAC and LB-X *if* on their own (allowing exceptions for Designs like Crimson Langur, which was a shared development with another Clan) until PAC comes out.
Their cost is generally same as the standard IS AC, so among the three types of ballistic the Clans has (UAC, LB-X, and PAC) they're cheapest in resources required.
Improved SRM. The launcher of each rack cost same as the Streak of each rack, but the iSRM use "normal" rounds while the SSRM use streak ammunition (which is twice the cost of normal SRM rounds). They also can use specialized ammo that standard SRMs can and can utilize Artemis as well. However swapping it with the clan SRM is not very straightforward due to that it didn't get weight reduction. Though this isn't an issue if you're refitting SL designs since the "IS" SRMs weight basically the same.
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The original source for much of the improved weapons was in the first TRO3050 ...
it had a section in the back about clans using older style weapons on their 2nd line mechs.
It gave the rules for ACs, LL, PPC (basically 1 crit less & one ton less).
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The original source for much of the improved weapons was in the first TRO3050 ...
it had a section in the back about clans using older style weapons on their 2nd line mechs.
It gave the rules for ACs, LL, PPC (basically 1 crit less & one ton less).
But was that ever used on any official record sheet?
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I do not believe so
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https://bg.battletech.com/forums/combat-vehicles/chevalier-clan/
A Blood Spirit clan chevalier would have its SSRM2s swapped out for either improved SRM2s or a pair of SRM4s.
Other than the ECM and AP, the Zephyr EC would be the better choice. It's just much faster. :P
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Here is Zephyr which is a bit more "current" compared to the "EC" variant.
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/combat-vehicles/zephyr-hovertank-clan/
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Operational Revival RAT for the Blood Spirits 3048 (The influx of older second line battlemechs from the Snow Ravens was in 2975)
For Light 'Mechs, Adder and Kit Fox made (25% and 28%) up around 53% of the possibilities (2d6), Mist Lynz nearly 20%
For Medium 'Mechs, Nova and Stormcrow ( 28% and 22%) made up around 50%, with Stooping Hawk a bit distant third at around 17%
For Heavy 'Mechs, Crossbow made up around 47%, and at a distant second shared between two mechs: Summoner and Grizzly at 14% each
For Assault 'Mechs, Blood Kite made up around 47%, Kingfisher around 33%.
For ASF, Visigoth made up 25% and Turk 23%. The Blood Spirit Aerospace force is medium aerospace fighter dominated at 55.54%
Vehicle RAT is not included as it's used for all clans.
There's no second line RAT listed for them, so presumably they were sending only their best forces for Operation Revival trials.
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Continuing the RATs, this will be about the FM:CC RAT for the Blood Spirits. There are no vehicle/ASF RAT given.
3059, After operational revival and the burrock absorption
Frontline:
For Light 'Mechs, Kit Fox make up nearly 28% (with Prime making up 40% of the configs on RAT, and A the 60%), Adder make up 25% (with A making up 44.5% and B the rest at 55.5%), and Mist Lynx at nearly 20% (with B config the sole loadout).
For Medium 'Mechs, Battle Cobra make up 30.6% (A making up 82% and B the rest at 18%), Nova make up 27.8% (with Prime being the sole loadout), and Stormcrow make up 22.2% (with Prime and A making up the configs equally).
For Heavy 'Mechs, Crossbow dominate at 47% (Prime making up 65% and B the rest at 35%), Timber Wolf (D) and Summoner (A) a distant second shared equally with 13.88% each.
For Assault 'Mechs, Blood Kite once more dominate at 47.2%, Kingfisher at 33.3% (With D the dominant at 83.3% and C with rest at 16.7%), and lasty Warhawk at 16.66% (Prime only making up 33% while C dominate the rest).
Now to the Second Line
For Light Mechs, Locust IIC at 27.8%, Incubus at 22.2%, and Horned Owl at almost 20%.
For Medium 'Mechs, Conjurer at 38.8%, Shadow Hawk IIC at 25%, and Griffin IIC at 22.2%
For Heavy 'Mechs, Rifleman IIC at 30.54%, Grizzly at 27.8%, and Thresher at almost 20%
For Assault 'Mechs, Blood Kite dominating at 55.5%, Warhammer IIC at 13.9%, and CCRK-5003-1 Crockett at 11.1%.
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I added three each of the Clan stars in the Merc Kickstarter with the plan to add another Binary/Trinary to my overall Blood Spirit force. Looks like I'll be picking up at least one more of each CI second line 'Mech box based 'cause the RAT listing is motivating me to paint more.
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Thanks for your comment, I was debating whenever I should continue these posts or not.
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Thanks for your comment, I was debating whenever I should continue these posts or not.
Anyone that home makes a RAT has respect in my book. That’s a lot of work to do and thank you for it. Don’t feel obligated to finish it if you don’t want to: just know we appreciate it!
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Anyone that home makes a RAT has respect in my book. That’s a lot of work to do and thank you for it. Don’t feel obligated to finish it if you don’t want to: just know we appreciate it!
It's not homemade, it's just converting the dice results on the published RATs to percentage chances. Also, as always RATs are not indicative of all designs an entity actually have access to, but hopefully highlighting the designs that are most common or used a lot.
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Rhino FST EC Points are awesome...
Bulldozer Blades, standard LRM-10's but the LRM-20s are Clantech, also prototype ERML to boot.
I use them to dig field trenches and prepared hexes while laying FASCAM and Smoke LRMs.
Works great with both the Manticore EC and Zephyr EC.
So, if I had to make a standard Secondline Armor Star, I'd make sure I ran four Manticore EC, four Rhino FST EC and a pair of Zephyr EC hovercraft to exploit any weaknesses.
TT
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It's not homemade, it's just converting the dice results on the published RATs to percentage chances. Also, as always RATs are not indicative of all designs an entity actually have access to, but hopefully highlighting the designs that are most common or used a lot.
RATs are definitely limiting if used as a "these are the -only- units a faction has available" list but using your percentiles definitely illustrates just how much the Clan uses certain designs. Things like the Blood Kite that we know make up a large amount of CBS' Assault 'Mech pool in general takes on a bigger meaning when it's 47% in 3059.
I haven't thumbed through my Field Manuals in a bit. Looking forward to FM: Updates 'cause I think that's when the Crimson Langur may have finally made it on a RAT (hopefully, WoR if not I'm sure) & I use them more than almost any other design for Blood Spirit deployment from 3067 on.
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Here's the percentiles for Field Manual: Update. Of course, as always, I try to list the top 3 in each group.
FM: Update 3067
Frontline
--Light
Kit Fox Omni = 27.77% (Prime 40%, A 60%)
Adder Omni = 25% (B 55.56%, H 44.44%)
Mist Lynx Omni = 19.38% (B 71.4%, H 28.6%)
--Medium
Crimson Langur = 30.54% (Prime 45.44%, A 54.55%)
Stooping Hawk = 19.43% (Prime 57.2%, C 28.5%, D 14.3%)
Battle Cobra = 16.66% (A 50%, B 50%)
--Heavy
Crossbow Omni = 38.87% (Prime 78.6%, B 21.4%)
Summoner = 13.88% (A Config)
Grizzly = 13.88%
Timber Wolf = 11.11% (D Config)
--Assault
Blood Kite = 44.42%
Kingfisher Omni = 33.32% (C 16.65%, D 83.34%)
Warhawk Omni = 5.55% (Prime)
---------------------------------------------------
Secondline
--Light
Locust IIC = 27.77%
Incubus = 22.21%
Horned Owl = 13.88%
--Medium
Griffin IIC = 22.21% (Standard 50%, 3 12.47%, 4 37.5%)
Shadow Hawk IIC = 24.99%
Conjurer = 30.54%
--Heavy
Rifleman IIC = 30.54 (Standard 72.72%, 3 27.28%)
Grizzly = 27.77%
Thresher = 19.43%
--Assault
Blood Kite = 55.53%
Warhammer IIC = 13.88% (Standard 60%, 3 40%)
CRCRK-5003-1 Crockett = 11.11%
-----------------------------------------------
Vehicles
--Light
Shamash = 38.87%
Svantovit = 16.65% (Standard 16.63%, Streak 83.36%)
Mithras = 11.11%
Zorya = 11.11%
--Medium
Maxim (Clan) = 36.09%
Bandit (Clan = 33.32% (67% Prime, 33% A)
Ku = 16.65%
--Heavy
Pike (Clan) = 30.54%
Ishtar = 27.76%
Magi = 16.66%
Oro = 16.66%
--Assault
Morrigu = 44.42% (Standard variant 62.5%, Laser variant 37.5%)
Demolisher (clan) = 30.54%
Huitzilopochtli = 13.88%
----------------------------------------------
--DropShips
Union C = 30.54%
Arcadia = 22.21%
Broadsword = 19.44%
----------------------------------------------
Frontline Aerospace
--Light
Chaeronea = 24.99%
Batu = 16.66%
Sulla = 13.88%
Issus = 13.88%
Vandal = 13.88%
Bashkir = 13.88%
--Medium
Turk = 36.1% (Prime 77%, C 23%)
Jagatai = 27.76%
Tyre = 27.76% (Standard 90%, 2 10%)
Sulla = 5.55%
--Heavy
Hydaspes = 49.98%
Sabutai = 36.09 (Prime 31%, C 69%)
Kirghiz = 13.87% (Prime 20%, C 80%)
-----------------------------------------------
Secondline Aerospace
--Light
Chaeronea = 38.87% (Standard 85.8%, 2 14.2%)
TRN-3T Trident = 16.66%
SPD-502 Spad = 13.88%
--Medium
Tyre = 55.54% (Standard 65%, 2 35%)
HCT-231B Hellcat II = 36.08
IRN-SD1 Ironsides = 5.55%
--Heavy
Hydaspes = 63.85%
RPR-100 Rapier = 16.66%
HMR-HD Hammerhead = 16.66%
AHB-443 Ahab = 2.77%
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Forgot to add the ProtoMechs for FM: Update
FM: Update Blood Spirits
Protomech
Roc = 36.1% (Standard 23%, 2 46%, 3 31%)
Satyr = 19.43 (Standard 28.6%, 2 71.4%)
Centaur = 13.88% (2 60%, 3 40%)
Gorgon 3 = 13.88%
Minotaur = 11.11%
Harpy 2 = 2.77%
Hydra = 2.77%
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What's the Infantry look like?
More Battle Armor or something else like PBI?
Foot over Fast Recon Hover based or would Space Marines be more common, as they would get the extra attention in combat?
To note, Marines are better trained than Foot, but they would have more options in combat as a viable xenoplanetary force. I'd even go as far as to use them as Foot units on the ground.
TT
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Their infantry RATs in WoR Supplemental are overwhelmingly Elementals, some Sylphs and Gnomes, a Corona and a Clan Assault Infantry.
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Their infantry RATs in WoR Supplemental are overwhelmingly Elementals, some Sylphs and Gnomes, a Corona and a Clan Assault Infantry.
i already did that part.
Infantry
----------------------------------
--Keshik
Elemental = 49.97%
Salamander = 19.44%
Gnome = 16.66%
Sylph = 11.11%
Corana = 2.77%
--Frontline
Elemental = 49.97%
Salamander = 24.99
Gnome = 13.88%
Sylph = 11.1%
--Secondline
Elemental = 55.53%
Salamander = 19.44%
Sylph = 13.88%
Clan Assault Infantry = 5.55%
Gnome = 5.54%
I'll post the rest of the Reaving RATs tomorrow
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The nice thing about that infantry table is you just round them to nearest 5 or so for whole BA points.
For Keshik and Frontline you have 10 points of Elementals to other types. Second line its 11 elemental points.
Keshik ratio is 10 elemental points to 4 salamander points to 3 gnome points to 2 slyph points and round up to a whole point of Corana.
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Surprised there aren't more Coronas on the RATs, given the long years of fighting the Adders on York. Though I suppose between the fact that you probably can't salvage most BA after a battle and the Adders were mostly fielding second-line units on York, I guess it makes sense.
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and that's last of the RATs!
Wars of Reaving 3072 Blood Spirits RATs
'Mechs
-----------------------------
Keshik
--Light
Kit Fox = 27.76%
Adder = 24.99%
Mist Lynx = 19.44%
Incubus = 16.66%
Arctic Cheetah = 5.55%
Horned Owl = 2.77%
Piranha = 2.77%
--Medium
Crimson Langur = 24.99%
Stooping Hawk = 22.2%
Battle Cobra = 16.66%
Nova = 16.66%
Conjurer = 8.333% (3)
Stormcrow = 8.33%
Hunchback IIC = 2.77%
--Heavy
Crossbow = 30.54%
Summoner = 16.66%
Timber Wolf = 13.88%
Mad Dog = 11.11%
Grizzly = 8.33%
Thresher = 8.33%
Hellfire = 5.55% (2)
BL-6b-KNT Black Knight = 2.77%
Rifleman IIC = 2.77%
--Assault
Blood Kite = 44.43%
Kingfisher = 27.76%
Warhawk = 16.66%
Blood Asp = 5.55%
Dire Wolf = 2.77%
Supernova = 2.77%
-----------------------------
Frontline
--Light
Incubus = 30.54%
Kit Fox = 22.21%
Mist Lynx = 19.43%
Adder = 13.88%
Piranha = 8.33%
Horned Owl = 5.55%
--Medium
Stooping Hawk = 24.99%
Battle Cobra = 16.66%
Conjurer = 13.88%(3)
Crimson Langur = 13.88%
Nova = 11.11%
Hunchback IIC = 8.33%
CRB-27b Crab = 5.55%
Griffin IIC = 2.77% (4)
Stormcrow = 2.77%
--Heavy
Mad Dog = 16.66%
Crossbow = 13.88%
Thresher = 13.88%
Timber Wolf = 13.88%
Summoner = 11.11%
Hellfire = 11.11% (2)
BL-6b-KNT Black Knight = 8.33%
Glass Spider = 5.55%
Grizzly = 2.77%
Rifleman IIC = 2.77% (3)
--Assault
Blood Kite = 33.32%
Kingfisher = 22.21%
Warhawk = 16.65%
Blood Asp = 11.11%
Supernova = 8.33%
Warhammer IIC = 8.32% (Standard 33.3%, 3 66.7%)
------------------------------
Secondline
--Light
Locust IIC = 27.77%
Incubus = 22.21%
Horned Owl = 19.43%
MCY-99 Mercury = 11.11%
Jenner IIC = 8.33%
MON-66b Mongoose = 5.55%
Howler = 2.77%
Piranha = 2.77%
--Medium
Conjurer = 30.54% (Standard 55.5%, 2 45.5%)
Shadow Hawk IIC = 24.99%
Griffin IIC = 22.21% (Standard 50%, 3 12.5%, 4 37.5%)
CRB-27b Crab = 11.1%
Vapor Eagle = 8.33%
Hunchback IIC = 2.77%
--Heavy
Rifleman IIC = 30.54% (Standard 72.7%, 3 27.3%)
Grizzly = 27.77%
Thresher = 19.43%
BL-6b-KNT Black Knight = 13.88%
Glass Spider = 8.32%
--Assault
Blood Kite = 55.53% (Standard 50%, 2 50%)
Warhammer IIC = 13.88% (Standard 60%, 3 40%)
CRK-5003-1b Crocket = 11.11%
Phoenix Hawk IIC = 8.33% (3)
Marauder IIC = 5.55%
HGN-732b Highlander = 2.77%
Supernova = 2.77%
----------------------------------
ProtoMech
----------------------------------
--Keshik
Delphyne = 30.54% (Standard 45%, 2 55%)
Chrysaor = 22.21% (Standard 37.5%, 2 62.5%)
Roc = 16.66% (Standard 66.7%, 2 33.3%)
Hydra = 11.11% (4)
Sprite = 8.33%
Minotaur = 8.32%
Procyon = 2.77%
----------------------------------
--Frontline
Delphyne = 24.99% (Standard 55.5%, 2 44.5%)
Chrysaor = 22.21% (Standard 62.5%, 2 37.5%)
Hydra = 16.66% (4)
Roc = 16.66% (Standard 33.3%, 2 66.7%)
Minotaur = 11.1% (Standard 75%, 4 25%)
Cerecops = 5.55%
Sprite = 2.77%
----------------------------------
--Secondline
Cecerops = 30.54% (Standard 36%, 2 28%, 3 36%)
Roc = 27.76% (2 50%, 3 50%)
Chrysaor = 16.66%
Gorgon = 11.11% (3)
Minotau = 11.1% (Standard 25%, 4 75%)
Hydra = 2.77% (6)
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at the start of the Blood Spirit;s what if they bacame the premire weapons manufacturer and mech aerospace designer
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at the start of the Blood Spirit;s what if they bacame the premire weapons manufacturer and mech aerospace designer
the coyotes were supposedly the inventors of the clans or something like that.
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Got a new vehicle variant for yall.
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/combat-vehicles/pike-pac/
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Surprised there aren't more Coronas on the RATs, given the long years of fighting the Adders on York. Though I suppose between the fact that you probably can't salvage most BA after a battle and the Adders were mostly fielding second-line units on York, I guess it makes sense.
I'm surprised there's no Salamander BA, what with the increasingly close ties with the Mandrills towards the end.
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I'm surprised there's no Salamander BA, what with the increasingly close ties with the Mandrills towards the end.
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/clan-chatterweb/clan-blood-spirit-get-off-our-lawn/msg1942106/#msg1942106 they're on the RATs. I post it 7 posts above yours.
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Love the Blood Kite. In fact I picked up two more from the IWM booth at Origins on Saturday.
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Check out Matt Plog’s new sketch of it: pretty good IMO
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Check out Matt Plog’s new sketch of it: pretty good IMO
Would that be on a tumbler?
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Check out Matt Plog’s new sketch of it: pretty good IMO
"Sketch" is good, would be happy if I could do such sketches :)
Here you go:
https://www.deviantart.com/mattplog/art/Extra-Pint-BloodKite-960530358
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Would that be on a tumbler?
Sorry was on a break and forgot to snag the link: thanks Galiten
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"Sketch" is good, would be happy if I could do such sketches :)
Here you go:
https://www.deviantart.com/mattplog/art/Extra-Pint-BloodKite-960530358
Daaaaaaaaang. That's a good looking update. I could use a couple Stars of these.
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Daaaaaaaaang. That's a good looking update. I could use a couple Stars of these.
I think for a mid year surprise they should produce a Blood Kite salvage box! .. I can dream.
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See, I love me some Plog but that update doesn't do it for me, though I do like the updated weapons placements. The original Blood Kite is chonky love that the mere mortal sculptors at IWM never stood a chance of capturing in a physical medium and no one has dared try since, and if they ever redo it, I hope it's not that version. It doesn't even have the depth charge racks on the shoulders...
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See, I love me some Plog but that update doesn't do it for me, though I do like the updated weapons placements. The original Blood Kite is chonky love that the mere mortal sculptors at IWM never stood a chance of capturing in a physical medium and no one has dared try since, and if they ever redo it, I hope it's not that version. It doesn't even have the depth charge racks on the shoulders...
As usual, I agree with you. It's a "meh" at best.
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See, I love me some Plog but that update doesn't do it for me, though I do like the updated weapons placements. The original Blood Kite is chonky love that the mere mortal sculptors at IWM never stood a chance of capturing in a physical medium and no one has dared try since, and if they ever redo it, I hope it's not that version. It doesn't even have the depth charge racks on the shoulders...
On one hand, I agree. It lacks a little of the elements of the oriinal that made it a beautiful brick of metal. On the other hand...It is the Blood Kite getting some attention. I would love to see the Blood Kite get some plastic version as well(Wars of Reaving Kickstarter, maybe?), because I kinda feel bad putting my metal ones on the table, as they are smallerthan light 'mechs.
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why did Khan Schmidt cancel her creation of ilchi, since it seemed to be making progress with mostmclans
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not fast enough progress to stem the raids from Mongoose (CSJ got them) and Burrock. I think that was part of the reasoning.
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Most Clans had a problem remembering the Blood Spirits still existed. A ambassador was just confusing to them. Didn't help the Blood Spirits had little to trade and were considered so small trialing with them might be seen as bullying.
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The Blood Spirits also saw all the ways the other Clans were changing, big and small, developing their own ways, customs, naming conventions for things, rituals etc., and were appalled by it. It's almost like Wars of Reaving logic.
"They are tainted! Stay away from them! We can not send an ilchi to that Clan! Or that one! Or that one! OMG, they walked through here on their way out, we need bleach cleaner...."
Clan Blood Spirit? More like Clan "You must wear a Kerensky purity bracelet or we cannot be friends."
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thanks for the info
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The Blood Spirits also saw all the ways the other Clans were changing, big and small, developing their own ways, customs, naming conventions for things, rituals etc., and were appalled by it. It's almost like Wars of Reaving logic.
"They are tainted! Stay away from them! We can not send an ilchi to that Clan! Or that one! Or that one! OMG, they walked through here on their way out, we need bleach cleaner...."
Clan Blood Spirit? More like Clan "You must wear a Kerensky purity bracelet or we cannot be friends."
Huh. Interesting perspective, I never quite saw the similarity of those mindsets. I see it as a bit more justified that the espirit-de-corps Clan went into a deeply fundamentalist mindset after the identity crisis they had vs anything the Vipers were politically pushing about 'Taint', though.
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Sadly the Spirits purpose was squashed early on in there history and it didn't help that Nicky K was one of the ones that helped in that. On the other hand the Spirits also screwed themselves giving away assets early on in there history which just made them just weak enough for the other Clans to see them as a easy mark. I'm guessing they started out with a fleet and force of mechs on par with the other Clans as well as planetary holdings. Most of which was gone by the Golden Century.
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These are all interesting ideas, but FM:CC is pretty clear as to why the Spirits retracted into isolation: the other Clans (who were already starting to dismiss their offers of aid, having debts owed to them ignored, and having their ilChis mocked as "unClanlike") turned on them for having the audacity to sympathize with the Wolverines. When the Grand Council (including Nicholas Kerensky) censured them for it, Khan Schmitt saw that the time of Clans cooperating together was over and cancelled the ilChi program.
Afterwards, the Burrocks and Mongooses (among others) took it upon themselves to continuously prey on the Spirits to prove that they were indeed weak and soft, and because the Spirits had been offering freely of themselves to help the other Clans for years, they were unable to build up their forces as quickly as the others, so the raids were more devastating for them. And when Nicholas died during the Widowmaker Refusal, that was the nail in the coffin for them.
If anything, Alan Grant, what you're describing is true... but for the other Clans, not for the Blood Spirits. Which isn't to say that the Spirits didn't despise the other Clans, but if their attitude was as you describe it, they'd never have allied themselves with the fractious Mandrills.
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You are correct Tassa. Good rundown of the events as they happened and in the correct order.
The Spirits remind me of the first time I ever tried to play a Total War franchise game, I think the medieval one. So big strategy/run a nation kind of game. I was terrible at it, I had no idea what I was doing. Pretty soon I was down to my capital province and what tiny army it could support and nothing else. None of the other factions came to finish me off, I just existed stuck in a state where no one attacked my capital to finish me off, and neither could I build up a sufficient force to both defend my capital and attack somewhere else. I just sat waiting for the end to come and it never did.
What was funny about it, was that I refused to just quit playing. I kept loading that same saved game and kept trying to figure out a way to get out of the quagmire. I spent hours watching Turn after Turn go by, really unable to do anything. I was happy to see my treasury go up 1,000 gold (over the course of many Turns), even though that wasn't enough to change the dynamic at all. I had maxed out what I was capable of with just my one region and its city.
All around me on the campaign map, other factions rose and fell, large wars were fought. I was just stuck. Not quite failed, but definitely not successful. I was the only player but the AI factions were having a lot more fun than I was.
The Spirits remind me a lot of that game. When I start to think about their strategic situation it puts me right back into the headspace of what that game felt like.
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I think that's spot-on, Alan.
I mean, just look at their history. They started out on par with the other Clans in terms of forces and holdings, then they contracted post-Wolverines/post-Widowmakers when they lost their Albion and Homer holdings, then they expanded out again under Khan Ceana Boques with new holdings on Foster (and making their first new friend in Kindraa Smythe-Jewel, which would continue on with the Mandrills after that Kindraa fell), then contracted again because of the constant Burrock raids on Foster's supply lines, then spent a period of time treading water and being unable to grow because of the constant predations by the Burrocks, then they traded WarShips for Mechs with the Snow Ravens and built their touman up (by the time of the Burrock Absorption, the Spirits fielded twelve Galaxies), then the Absorption War happened and the Spirits' touman was shattered by the Burrocks and Adders, then the Spirits took total control of York and retracted again, then they got involved in the Wars of Possession post-Great Refusal and started expanding again (including the establishment of their hidden colonies in Colleen), which continued on into the Wars of Reaving where they were probably the most active and expansive they'd ever been, then they retracted again after devastating losses in the WoR (most egregiously the Adders' genocidal destruction of York) and Viper Annihilation... and just as they were starting to climb out of the abyss, the Adders returned and finally finished them off.
Writing it all out like that, it sounds almost exactly like that game.
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i was wondering if Khan Schmidt had the vision and foresight to work behind the with a few senior commanders that had favorable feelings towards the spirits
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i was wondering if Khan Schmidt had the vision and foresight to work behind the with a few senior commanders that had favorable feelings towards the spirits
Honestly, if you are talking Karianna Schmidt? No. Otherwise she would not have interfered with the Burrock Absorption. As much as people jokingly refer to the Ice Hellions as "Clan Temper Tantrum," under Khan Schmidt, Blood SPirits pretty much were that....and it cost us everything in the end. I am willing to bet that, had Blood Spirit not interfered in the Burrock Absorption, the Adders would not have had the bad blood towards the Spirits, and the events on York would not have happened, and we would not have bled our Touman ahead of that. And, with 11-12 Galaxies instead of 8? We might have been able to have come out of the Wars of Reaving a lot better...Also, frankly, we would have been better off if Khan Schmidt had died during the Great Refusal...
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It's one of those moments that would've dramatically changed the universe moving forwards. Had Blood Spirit stood aloof during the Burrock Absorption, they could've claimed the moral high ground as the Conscience of the Clans during the Wars of Reaving, and might even have been listened to. This opens up a whole new slew of possibilities beyond the Adders' rather predictable whinging about "Inner Sphere taint" and the Homeworlds turning insular. A race for Terra where the Homeworlds Clans are known to be paying attention is, to me, vastly more interesting, even if the end result is the same.
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Like, Wolf vs. Republic of the Sphere vs. Jade Falcon was okay, but Wolf vs. Republic vs. Falcon vs. Blood Spirit vs. Word of Blake would've been awesome. Really pull out all the stops and give us the Rage in a Cage slugfest that the fiction seemed to be working towards, even if Alaric still wins in the end.
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i would like to ask my previous question a bit differently if Blood Spirits 1st Khan Collen Schimdt even after the Wolverine inciedent if she had a few friends in other clans to keep the lines of communication maybe the Spiritrs would not have beeen beatenuphard
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i would like to ask my previous question a bit differently if Blood Spirits 1st Khan Collen Schimdt even after the Wolverine inciedent if she had a few friends in other clans to keep the lines of communication maybe the Spiritrs would not have beeen beatenuphard
I think the "You either vote for the Annihilation of the Wolverines...or you are next" ultimatum from The Founder put paid to diplomacy. Also, do consider what we saw in Betrayal of Ideals. The other Clans were already more concerned with their petty rivalries than any sort of Esprits de Corps. The excuses ultimately used on the Not Named Clan were their being too successful, their advancing too swiftly technologically, and their not sharing freely enough. In that environment, could there really be cooperation between Clans? And Blood Spirit had the audacity to think that those "rebels" deserved a fair shake? There really could not be allies within the other Clans for the Blood Spirits in those early days following the Annihilation of the Not Named.
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I thought that the Nova Cats were also rather sympathetic to the Wolverines (at least that's why I thought reading how their second Khan was basically killed for her Wolverine-leanings). Also a rather funny sidenote: when Klondike began the Adders and Spirits were on rather friendly terms and the Spirits actually managed to play mediator. Schmitt probably thought that some of the wolverines were "salvagable" or rather that they didn't deserve punishment for the actions of their leaders. And I can't blame her for someone who witnessed the entire civil war on Terra she probably doesn't want to see such destruction / death again.
Also the Spirits made some good gains during the Wars of Reaving but also suffered from the actions of their allies (like that debacle against the Adders when the Mandrills decided to intervene against the wishes of the Spirits) And their own stupidity against the retreating Bears...
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Fun fact: the Blood Spirits' hall on York was the only place in all of Clan space that the Wolverines' original symbol was still kept on display, as part of a mosaic depicting Colleen Schmitt.
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Fun fact: the Blood Spirits' hall on York was the only place in all of Clan space that the Wolverines' original symbol was still kept on display, as part of a mosaic depicting Colleen Schmitt.
Interesting: where was this tidbit?
I’m still working on a Wolverine AU and still having some issues writing the whole how they survive issue lol. Having Blood Spirits be sympathetic was always a thing but good to know theirs info I missed.
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Interesting: where was this tidbit?
The BattleCorps story "Tears of Blood", in the very first chapter.
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The BattleCorps story "Tears of Blood", in the very first chapter.
Damn BattleCorps!!! Too many good stories and now they’re lost in the wind.
Thanks
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Damn BattleCorps!!! Too many good stories and now they’re lost in the wind.
Thanks
If anyone has it as a PDF it might be possible to email it to someone who wants it.
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Honestly, if you are talking Karianna Schmidt? No. Otherwise she would not have interfered with the Burrock Absorption. As much as people jokingly refer to the Ice Hellions as "Clan Temper Tantrum," under Khan Schmidt, Blood SPirits pretty much were that....and it cost us everything in the end. I am willing to bet that, had Blood Spirit not interfered in the Burrock Absorption, the Adders would not have had the bad blood towards the Spirits, and the events on York would not have happened, and we would not have bled our Touman ahead of that. And, with 11-12 Galaxies instead of 8? We might have been able to have come out of the Wars of Reaving a lot better...Also, frankly, we would have been better off if Khan Schmidt had died during the Great Refusal...
oooh I like this what if part ... Been stronger during the WoR and convinced everyone else that the CSA was tainted ala CSV. Now, that would be an ugly fight. A lot more remnants of clans hanging around instead of a giant CSA ready to swallow them all. (lol, sometimes that CSA hate just comes thru! ... although I'm still getting 5 Blood Asps from the current KS)
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The Adders would have had issues with the other Clans if and when the absorbed Burrocks started to rebel against there new Clan during the Wars of Reaving. If the Spirits had waited they could have engaged the Burrocks without issue.
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The Adders would have had issues with the other Clans if and when the absorbed Burrocks started to rebel against there new Clan during the Wars of Reaving. If the Spirits had waited they could have engaged the Burrocks without issue.
Clan Blood Spirit scoffs at your strategy of patience! ... (and that you are probably right)
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Clan Blood Spirit scoffs at your strategy of patience! ... (and that you are probably right)
Not probably..and Patience really was Blood Spirit throughout their history...right up until the Burrock Absorption...
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As much as the Absorption War does make sense as the culmination of a feud that was so bad that it was said to have truly unbalanced both Clans, the decision to intervene in the Burrock Absorption was definitely *the* beginning of the end for them. I wish they'd done a bit better by Karianna Schmitt, to be honest, but it is what it is.
I think the Spirits should've stayed in isolation with their 12 Galaxies and let the Adders Absorb the Burrocks... and then have the Burrocks fracture the Adders in civil war, giving the Adders and the Spirits a chance to actually look at each other and realize that they both want the same damn thing: unity amongst the Clans so they can restore the Inner Sphere together, and then crushing the Burrocks between them. It's such a colossal waste that things shook out the way that they did.
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So going over Wars of Reaving sourcebook and supplement, only four clans in 3072 have a Vehicle RAT table each. No one else has one including the Blood Spirits. Does imply to me that the remnants of the Touman have no intact vehicle trinaries and probably replaced wholesale by ProtoMechs.
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So going over Wars of Reaving sourcebook and supplement, only four clans in 3072 have a Vehicle RAT table each. No one else has one including the Blood Spirits. Does imply to me that the remnants of the Touman have no intact vehicle trinaries and probably replaced wholesale by ProtoMechs.
I think you're reading too much into it.
The vehicle table is labeled as a combination of 3072 and 3085, but only includes the non-Abjured Home Clans of 3085, which implies to me that this is simply an oversight and was clearly intended to only represent the four non-Abjured surviving Home Clans as of 3085. Unless you honestly think that the Bears, Wolves, Falcons, Horses, Ravens, Sharks, Vipers, Hellions and Mandrills were also not using vehicles in 3072, which is preposterous.
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I think you're reading too much into it.
The vehicle table is labeled as a combination of 3072 and 3085, but only includes the non-Abjured Home Clans of 3085, which implies to me that this is simply an oversight and was clearly intended to only represent the four non-Abjured surviving Home Clans as of 3085. Unless you honestly think that the Bears, Wolves, Falcons, Horses, Ravens, Sharks, Vipers, Hellions and Mandrills were also not using vehicles in 3072, which is preposterous.
What then? They had a general aerospace table for all clans presented in 3072. But not a general vehicle table for rest of the clans?
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I checked the WoR Supplementary Errata thread. That vehicle table is in fact supposed to be the *General* vehicle table. The Clan Names are wrong; they're meant to be vehicle weight classes (Light, Medium, Heavy, and Assault). Which mean I have an addendum to make to the WoR RAT percentage post.
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What then? They had a general aerospace table for all clans presented in 3072. But not a general vehicle table for rest of the clans?
I literally just said that it was likely an oversight. But I see you figured that out already. :)
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Additionally, if you want a Blood Spirit-specific table, there's ones in the back of Field Manual Updates, which is set in 3067 (or thereabout). And for just plain availability and not a RAT, there's the MUL and the era availability lists.
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Additionally, if you want a Blood Spirit-specific table, there's ones in the back of Field Manual Updates, which is set in 3067 (or thereabout). And for just plain availability and not a RAT, there's the MUL and the era availability lists.
Yeah I went over that already
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/clan-chatterweb/clan-blood-spirit-get-off-our-lawn/msg1942012/#msg1942012
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if the Spirit.s changed their course in the beginning had a similar to the Sea Foxes Khan Nagasawa things may have been different for the Spirits
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https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,82274.msg1954504.html#msg1954504
Rifleman C Blood Spirit. It's more of a Garrison/Defense unit.
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Jihad Era Refit for Rifleman C Blood Spirit is posted.
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Did the Spirit,s have blood named Protomech bloodnames
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Did the Spirit,s have blood named Protomech bloodnames
This is kind of tricky. Technically, since all their Protomech pilots were True Born, they did qualify for Bloodnames, however, I think there is only a single, canonical Protomech pilot to have earned a Bloodname.
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This is kind of tricky. Technically, since all their Protomech pilots were True Born, they did qualify for Bloodnames, however, I think there is only a single, canonical Protomech pilot to have earned a Bloodname.
Do you recall which blood house they were from?
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Most Many should be from aerospace bloodlines, if they were used. Not every clan was gung-ho on going for the aerospace phenotype and either went with standard trueborn or a mixed result too (no hard evidence, but I recall reading something about this ... although it could have been on an early incarnation of the message boards fwiw.)
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This is kind of tricky. Technically, since all their Protomech pilots were True Born, they did qualify for Bloodnames, however, I think there is only a single, canonical Protomech pilot to have earned a Bloodname.
Iris McFadden, in the Cecerops entry in TRO 3075.
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Iris McFadden, in the Cecerops entry in TRO 3075.
Would make sense that it's a Aerospace genetic line and the Spirits were tge first to push the Protomech phenotype.
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how many Protomech designs did the Spirit's have
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how many Protomech designs did the Spirit's have
The Master Unit List give that answer.
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During the Wars of Reaving what if the Spirit's joined with the Scorpions and moved towards the Inner Shpere.
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During the Wars of Reaving what if the Spirit's joined with the Scorpions and moved towards the Inner Shpere.
Ironically, years before the WoR book came out, I was running the Blood Spirits in the FGC on the old forums and had them take over Nueva Castile. :grin:
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I think it would've been a great deal of fun to have the Blood Spirits do the last-minute Invasion instead of the Ice Hellions.
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Hard pass on seeing the Spirits follow up on the Absorption War with another ill-conceived "let's throw our whole touman in here, what could go wrong?!" venture.
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Moving elsewhere would have been a good idea. Heaven knows they were used to being self supporting and there are plenty of worlds fhey could have moved to and taken over in the Periphery or even into the Inner Sphere. They had Star League era star charts. They could have moved to worlds that have fallen off the maps!
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They should have ended the feud with the Star Adders. Shortly after the Absorption War. Getting rid of Karianna Schmitt (and all those of their leadership responsible for the desaster of interferring the Burock Absórption).
This would have freed up resources and they could have begun an invasion.
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They should have ended the feud with the Star Adders. Shortly after the Absorption War. Getting rid of Karianna Schmitt (and all those of their leadership responsible for the desaster of interferring the Burock Absórption).
This would have freed up resources and they could have begun an invasion.
From a practical perspective, yes. Then again, hindsight also says the Burrocks should have been Annihilated, not Absorbed. In fact, if that had been the case, the whole Wars of Reaving might not have happened. However, I think the bad blood between the Adders and the Spirits was already so firmly entrenched at that time, that neither side would have made peace. I think that if the Adders had chosen to give an olive branch to the Spirits after the Wars of Reaving, however...Had reminded them of why The Founder created their Clan, perhaps things could have fared differently. The Spirits were not wanting to trust others. If their "great enemies" had been the ones to move for peace, instead of just destroy them, perhaps...
I feel this classic quote is the epitaph of Clan Blood Spirit:
"For all sad words of tongue and pen, the saddest are these, 'It might have been.'"- John Greenleaf Whittier
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From a practical perspective, yes. Then again, hindsight also says the Burrocks should have been Annihilated, not Absorbed.
I'll go a step farther: the Star Adders should not have simply been handed the Absorption the way they were to begin with. There was no bidding involved between the Clans that we ever saw mention of, with the Absorption going to the Clan that bids the lowest, and I find it impossible to believe that the conservatively-bidding Star Adders would beat out the Spirits... or even most of the other Clans, to be honest.
I also firmly believe that Ben Rome missed a big opportunity during the WoR to have the Adders approach the Spirits after the reborn Burrocks were discovered and extend an olive branch to them by letting the Spirits get in on their destruction. I feel like, with all of the bad blood between the two Clans (and let's not fool ourselves here, the Adders hated the Spirits every bit as much as the Spirits hated them), that might've been the one truly extraordinary circumstance that would get them to see beyond that mutual hatred to a truly common enemy.
But simply saying "they should have ended the feud with the Star Adders", especially given the fact that the Adders were pursuing that feud every bit as much (moreso, actually) as the Spirits were, is a silly notion. The Adders certainly had no desire to end their feud, and made a point to escalate their bullying of the Spirits until, eventually, they decided that wiping out tens of millions of people on York was somehow morally justified. That feud was only ever going to end the way that it did.
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The Grand Council awarded the right of Absorption to Clan Star Adder. Has to be a reason for giving this the right to the Star Adders and not to the Blood Spirits, has not be?
In the Wars of Reaving, the Star Adders were honor-bound to defeat the traitorous nuBurrocks alone. If the had not done this, have not being capable of do this, they would have been weak and unworthy. So Ben Rome did it right.
Before the Absorption War the Star Adders were not an enemy of the Blood Spirits, the Absorption and aftermath changed this.
Everything the Blood Spirits did, was done of revenge and hate. They did immediately start with raiding and Trials of Possessions against the Star Adder, so starting the feud. Without this Clan Star Adder could have concentrated on rebuilding its touman and being ready for the new invasion.
Giving some sort of surkairede to the Star Adders would have helped the Blood Spirits. Instead they followed the path into darkness and finally into oblivion.
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The Grand Council awarded the right of Absorption to Clan Star Adder. Has to be a reason for giving this the right to the Star Adders and not to the Blood Spirits, has not be?
It shouldn't have given to anyone. Absorptions are supposed to be bid on by all the Clans. Simply handing that off to the Star Adders was grossly improper.
In the Wars of Reaving, the Star Adders were honor-bound to defeat the traitorous nuBurrocks alone. If the had not done this, have not being capable of do this, they would have been weak and unworthy. So Ben Rome did it right.
That's not true. The Adders not only had the Cobras helping them retake the Tanite worlds from the Burrocks, they forced the Cobras to help them.
Everything the Blood Spirits did, was done of revenge and hate.
And everything the Adders did was done of revenge and hate.
They did immediately start with raiding and Trials of Possessions against the Star Adder, so starting the feud.
That's not true, either. The Spirits withdrew into complete isolation after the Absorption War, with their only known action against the Adders being their retaking of their Arcadia enclave, something pretty much every Clan was doing during the Wars of Possession. The Adders were the ones who turned it into an actual feud by invading York and flat-out declaring that the feud wouldn't be over until the Spirits had paid for every Adder life lost in the Absorption War.
Giving some sort of surkairede to the Star Adders would have helped the Blood Spirits.
The Adders getting away with their genocide of tens of millions on York without a single repercussion was surkairede enough.
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The Spirits lost half their Touman on the Burrock Absorption issue, and then lost more as they kept picking at their scab. They antagonized the Adders (and Burrocks) to no fruitful resolution. You oils have thought they would have learned maybe not to hit one of the Strongest Clans in Clan space with their numerically MUCH weaker forces.
It’s one thing to constantly raid your enemy: sure you’re annoying him but the bear is not likely to charge after you if it’s a couple small bee stings. But again poke the bear enough and they’ll just get tired and murder you.
At one point or another if they had made ‘peace’ of a sorts the Spirits might have survived in some form: they probably would have ended up after the WoR like the Lions or Coyotes.
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Not sure why people keep repeating "it's all the Spirits' fault for attacking a stronger enemy" as if it's adding something new to the conversation (it's not; this dead horse has been beaten to the marrow), or that it's even strictly true to begin with (because, again, the Adders pursued the feud just as much as the Spirits did).
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The Council gave the right to Absorb the Burrocks to the Adders for a single reason. To get the job done. Any other Clan? The Burrocks might have won. Only a few Clans had the ability to do so. And then there was the question of the absorbing Clan becoming too powerful as the Adders did become so. There was no interest in making the Wolves or Bears more powerful and the Spirits were considered to weak to have a chance to do so.
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There was enough of a voting bloc to keep any IS clans from getting them and CSA had the clout to take the vote. In the "what ifs" I think that would be a cool turning point to change. Additional Drama once CCC lets out (or is forced to let out) the Tanite worlds.
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The Council gave the right to Absorb the Burrocks to the Adders for a single reason. To get the job done. Any other Clan? The Burrocks might have won. Only a few Clans had the ability to do so. And then there was the question of the absorbing Clan becoming too powerful as the Adders did become so. There was no interest in making the Wolves or Bears more powerful and the Spirits were considered to weak to have a chance to do so.
This is all headcanon, though.
First, Absorptions aren't assigned or voted on after the Absorption motion passes, they're bid on, with the lowest bidder winning. The Adders had nine of their ten Galaxies participating in this Trial, which doesn't strike me as a particularly low bid. There's absolutely no way that if this had been written properly, the Clans wouldn't have been falling over themselves to get the chance to Absorb another Clan and raising a stink about it being assigned in the first place, whether it's because they're conservative sticklers (thinking Clans like the Falcons, the Vipers, etc.), have an ax to grind against the Burrocks/Adders (to the Jaguar POV, the Adders interfered in their Absorption of the Mongooses, and the Coyotes certainly didn't like the Adders), or are just plain thirsty for isorla.
Second, the Spirits actually had a larger touman that the Adders at the time of the Absorption: twelve Galaxies to the Adders' ten. They stood just as much of a chance on paper against the Burrocks as the Adders did. Granted, the Spirits would be at a disadvantage technologically, but I'd argue that that might be evened out by the fact that they have a lot less territory to defend, and thus could focus more into their offense. They gave as good as they got in the Absorption War (they lost five Galaxies but took down almost seven).
Even the argument that the Clans were concerned about the Absorbing Clan gaining too much power doesn't hold much water in this instance. The Spirits certainly wouldn't have become more powerful than the other Clans in this case, mostly because there likely would a lot less (if any) of the "let's just switch sides" we saw with the Adders: the Spirits and Burrocks hated each other, and odds are the Spirits would've, at best, broken even because that Trial would've been nasty.
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I love Zeta Galaxy, Snow Raven, er Blood Spirit. :grin:
TT
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This is all headcanon, though.
First, Absorptions aren't assigned or voted on after the Absorption motion passes, they're bid on, with the lowest bidder winning. The Adders had nine of their ten Galaxies participating in this Trial, which doesn't strike me as a particularly low bid. There's absolutely no way that if this had been written properly, the Clans wouldn't have been falling over themselves to get the chance to Absorb another Clan and raising a stink about it being assigned in the first place, whether it's because they're conservative sticklers (thinking Clans like the Falcons, the Vipers, etc.), have an ax to grind against the Burrocks/Adders (to the Jaguar POV, the Adders interfered in their Absorption of the Mongooses, and the Coyotes certainly didn't like the Adders), or are just plain thirsty for isorla.
Second, the Spirits actually had a larger touman that the Adders at the time of the Absorption: twelve Galaxies to the Adders' ten. They stood just as much of a chance on paper against the Burrocks as the Adders did. Granted, the Spirits would be at a disadvantage technologically, but I'd argue that that might be evened out by the fact that they have a lot less territory to defend, and thus could focus more into their offense. They gave as good as they got in the Absorption War (they lost five Galaxies but took down almost seven).
Even the argument that the Clans were concerned about the Absorbing Clan gaining too much power doesn't hold much water in this instance. The Spirits certainly wouldn't have become more powerful than the other Clans in this case, mostly because there likely would a lot less (if any) of the "let's just switch sides" we saw with the Adders: the Spirits and Burrocks hated each other, and odds are the Spirits would've, at best, broken even because that Trial would've been nasty.
I put it down to the Blood Spirits being so secretive the other Clans didn't know how large they had grown. Seriously, look up in a Clan Dictionary the word 'secretive' and you get a picture of the Blood Spirit symbol.
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Moving elsewhere would have been a good idea. Heaven knows they were used to being self supporting and there are plenty of worlds fhey could have moved to and taken over in the Periphery or even into the Inner Sphere. They had Star League era star charts. They could have moved to worlds that have fallen off the maps!
The biggest issue for the Homeworld Clans was finding *more* suitable worlds. There's a good reason the Clans had only a few worlds colonized to begin with.
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The biggest issue for the Homeworld Clans was finding *more* suitable worlds. There's a good reason the Clans had only a few worlds colonized to begin with.
Point I'm making is there where known worlds to go to. Heck, the Outworlds Alliance has half there Star League territory fallen off the map by the 3050's. Not nuked, just no longer part of the Outworlds Alliance. And the SLDF had maps of those territorys. They didn't need to search our new worlds.
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have a question when Khan KARIANNA Schmit was injuried and remove as Khan why was she reinstated instead of some one more leveled head and some foesight
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have a question when Khan KARIANNA Schmit was injuried and remove as Khan why was she reinstated instead of some one more leveled head and some foesight
Per WoR, page 193, she was re-elected after Troy Boques' death because "the Spirits were looking for any way to regain their former glory."
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If I remember she was a crackerjack mechwarrior. Topnotch and a great leader. But she was also hot-headed and prone to the occasional bad decision.
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If I remember she was a crackerjack mechwarrior. Topnotch and a great leader. But she was also hot-headed and prone to the occasional bad decision.
Ever read the fight from her perspective that was in the Twilight of the Clans books? Where she just could not *grasp* the Inner Sphere tacts, and her 'mech was disabled because she fought and gave orders based on "how dare they!" not "Take out this threat!"
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Ever read the fight from her perspective that was in the Twilight of the Clans books? Where she just could not *grasp* the Inner Sphere tacts, and her 'mech was disabled because she fought and gave orders based on "how dare they!" not "Take out this threat!"
She had that problem all thru her career it seems.
But I think that in the end with the Vipers murdering everything in sight and their own Annihilation at the door the Blood Spirits thought maybe one last hurrah could be had and the ‘best’ Khan they’ve had in years could lead them out of it once again.
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But I think that in the end with the Vipers murdering everything in sight and their own Annihilation at the door the Blood Spirits thought maybe one last hurrah could be had and the ‘best’ Khan they’ve had in years could lead them out of it once again.
Then the Spirits did elect her again for their Khan, they were not threatened with annihilation. They simply had not learnt not understood how bad a leader Karianna Schmitt was.
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Then the Spirits did elect her again for their Khan, they were not threatened with annihilation. They simply had not learnt not understood how bad a leader Karianna Schmitt was.
I enjoy Karianna Schmitt as a character. Spirits in general always seemed to have really solid tactical commanders & incredibly poor strategic ones. Or maybe they just didn't have the word count required for nuance. I dunno. But I'd say the reelection would be more like the espirit de corps that the Spirits were named for - to the average Bloodnamed Clanner, I'm sure she didn't seem like a "bad" leader, since she held them all together in the face of adversity & whatnot. Given that her actions led to said adversity is kinda moot in that mindset.
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I enjoy Karianna Schmitt as a character. Spirits in general always seemed to have really solid tactical commanders & incredibly poor strategic ones. Or maybe they just didn't have the word count required for nuance. I dunno. But I'd say the reelection would be more like the espirit de corps that the Spirits were named for - to the average Bloodnamed Clanner, I'm sure she didn't seem like a "bad" leader, since she held them all together in the face of adversity & whatnot. Given that her actions led to said adversity is kinda moot in that mindset.
Agreed, and to add to this, I think it’s relevant that Karianna Schmitt has such an uncanny resemblance to their founding Khan, both physically and temperamentally, and that’s a powerful thing in a society that’s so big on symbolism.
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Fellow Spirits, I need your help with naming a VTOL transport that carry a single ProtoMech. It move very fast.
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w/o getting into design territory, is it cargo or lift hoist based?
Call it "Blood Hawk" simple, cheesy, fits. Or look up some mythological (real world) god/dess' of air names. Sorry but that wasn't quick.
Blood Sparrow?
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w/o getting into design territory, is it cargo or lift hoist based?
Call it "Blood Hawk" simple, cheesy, fits. Or look up some mythological (real world) god/dess' of air names. Sorry but that wasn't quick.
Blood Sparrow?
Lift Hoist based
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deploy 5 vtol for 5 PM, nice.
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At 14/21 movement profile. When you need to reinforce someone in a hurry but they're not engaged in fighting, deploy the VTOL lifters instead of a big dropship or the precious Arcadia Proto Carrier DropShip.
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A friend suggested the name Phooka/Pooka/Puca for the fast transport.
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isn't that the name of one of the WoB LAMs?
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isn't that the name of one of the WoB LAMs?
not a canon one that i can see.
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The Pwwka (the WoB LAM) is indeed an alternate (probably more accurate) spelling of Pooka.
Also, aren't pretty much all Clan vehicles named after war gods?
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I enjoy Karianna Schmitt as a character. Spirits in general always seemed to have really solid tactical commanders & incredibly poor strategic ones.
Not sure I agree here. The Spirits' famed frugality with their limited resources over long decades, successfully prosecute lengthy defensive campaigns in adherence with need to conserve resources, give up territory when necessary, forge limited alliances when beneficial, and heavy emphasis on high-quality training all speak to a generally good strategic grasp.
I think it's very easy to question that strategic ability considering the interference in the Burrock Absorption, and I used to be very critical of that decision, but now I look at it as the Spirits almost had to try. Their fiercely, deeply hated rivals about to be laid low by some other schmucks? If Karianna Schmitt didn't attempt to intervene on her terms, I think it likely she would expect somebody (potentially lots of somebodies) to come for her job and then intervene against the Adders and Burrocks. If she didn't, someone else would, in other words.
Fellow Spirits, I need your help with naming a VTOL transport that carry a single ProtoMech. It move very fast.
The Seelie. Scottish folklore term for fairies, something quick and definitely carrying something mischievous.
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Not sure I agree here. The Spirits' famed frugality with their limited resources over long decades, successfully prosecute lengthy defensive campaigns in adherence with need to conserve resources, give up territory when necessary, forge limited alliances when beneficial, and heavy emphasis on high-quality training all speak to a generally good strategic grasp.
Exactly. We saw plenty of that both before the Absorption War, and afterwards in FM:U and WoR. Granted, they made some mistakes, but pretty much all of the Clans have made poor tactical and strategic decisions throughout their existences. Even the Adders aren't exempt from this, as we saw with the resurgent Burrocks.
I think it's very easy to question that strategic ability considering the interference in the Burrock Absorption, and I used to be very critical of that decision, but now I look at it as the Spirits almost had to try. Their fiercely, deeply hated rivals about to be laid low by some other schmucks? If Karianna Schmitt didn't attempt to intervene on her terms, I think it likely she would expect somebody (potentially lots of somebodies) to come for her job and then intervene against the Adders and Burrocks. If she didn't, someone else would, in other words.
A few things here to add to your point.
First, as you said, the Spirits simply had to try. The Burrocks had spent almost the entirety of their mutual existence going out of their way to prey on the Spirits, and that's after their failed attempt to get them Annihilated for having the audacity to suggest trying to find another way to deal with the Wolverines. FM:CC mentions that the feud had unbalanced both Clans, and we all saw just how bitter and hateful (and rightly so, IMO) the Spirits had become. Of course they would jump on the chance to end the Burrocks for good.
On top of that, you have the Grand Council assigning the Absorption to the Adders, which is technically against Clan law anyway, not giving the Spirits (or even the rest of the Clans) the opportunity to bid for the right. There's no way you can convince me that the Adders' nine-out-of-ten Galaxies used in the Absorption (which fits the Adders' conservative bidding practices and makes perfect sense for them) was the lowest bid on the table. The Spirits had a legitimate grievance here.
Also, the Spirits had no way to predict that the Burrocks and Adders would ally in order to repel them. That's simply not typical Clan thinking; they're very much a dog-eat-dog society, and it was absolutely unprecedented that the Burrocks would, by-and-large, submit willingly to the Adders instead of fighting for their right to exist. Before that point, that's just not something we've ever seen from the Clans, who we all watched sabotage tf out each other during REVIVAL.
Then there's the elephant in the room: the Adders themselves were in this very same position when the Jaguars were given the right to Absorb Clan Mongoose. Per WoK, they were outraged when the Jaguars were given the right of Absorption despite their own long-running and costly feud, and they launched pre-emptive attacks of their own. It's only because Jaguars gonna Jaguar that the same thing didn't happen to the Adders when they decided to interfere in the Mongoose Absorption.
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Not sure I agree here. The Spirits' famed frugality with their limited resources over long decades, successfully prosecute lengthy defensive campaigns in adherence with need to conserve resources, give up territory when necessary, forge limited alliances when beneficial, and heavy emphasis on high-quality training all speak to a generally good strategic grasp.
Hm. We'll have to agree to disagree, I think. Given what little we're shown of BS commanders, it reads like, more often than not, they're beast at Cluster actions or smaller (tactical) but anything involving a full Galaxy or multiple Galaxies coordinating (strategic), not so much. You really cannot take away their actions during the Burrock Absorption and say "hey, other than this, they were brilliant!" 'cause that's one of the few really pertinent accounts we have to CBS doing literally anything in canon lore.
Also, forging limited alliances is more political than strategic in the sense I'm referring, something the Spirits were definitely not great at outside of the Mandrills and the very, very brief Cloud Cobra program. Actually, every point you just mentioned, if you take the word "Spirits'" out, sounds exactly like the Capellan Confederation.
Not saying that's a bad thing. Or even that not being the best at strategy is damning in any way. Merely pointing out that the takeaway I've had from every canon instance is that your individual Spirit MW is one of the toughest in the Clans, your Star Commanders are more often than not going to win equal odds, your Trinaries and Cluster commanders on the scene are, again at even odds, going to have a string of victories, but anything larger than that & there's going to be the very real possibility the war will be lost even if individual battles are won. Again, as seen in the Burrock Absorption. And the WoR.
Maybe my use of "poor" in lieu of a more neutral "lackluster" or "average" is the issue here.
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I think you're both right, honestly. The Spirits are great at making the most out of the least, fighting in defense of what they do have, and aiding each other as opposed to jockeying for position/glory, but they've also shown that they are slow to adapt (the Great Refusal is a perfect example of this) and so reliant on the chain of command that they fall apart when they lose their commander (as seen in the Absorption War). I also think quite a bit of their actions during the WoR were questionable from a strategic POV, most especially the way they threw their touman into the Viper Annihilation for absolutely no gain. Having their DropShips shot down over both Circe and New Kent was just... embarrassing.
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I think you're both right, honestly. The Spirits are great at making the most out of the least, fighting in defense of what they do have, and aiding each other as opposed to jockeying for position/glory, but they've also shown that they are slow to adapt (the Great Refusal is a perfect example of this) and so reliant on the chain of command that they fall apart when they lose their commander (as seen in the Absorption War). I also think quite a bit of their actions during the WoR were questionable from a strategic POV, most especially the way they threw their touman into the Viper Annihilation for absolutely no gain. Having their DropShips shot down over both Circe and New Kent was just... embarrassing.
Well, to your previous point, all Clans are guilty of making some incredibly poor strategic and tactical decisions depending on the moment (or the writer) so there's definitely fuel for either side in this. Maybe the upcoming WoR stories will give us a better example of sound strategic doctrine for the Spirits & others.
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Ever read the fight from her perspective that was in the Twilight of the Clans books? Where she just could not *grasp* the Inner Sphere tacts, and her 'mech was disabled because she fought and gave orders based on "how dare they!" not "Take out this threat!"
Yes, but I put that down to her expecting the Inner Sphere to fight like the Clans with all that entails. Fighting with a tech level below the Clan norm so using tactics to work around the Clan Tech advantage.
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Hm. We'll have to agree to disagree, I think. Given what little we're shown of BS commanders, it reads like, more often than not, they're beast at Cluster actions or smaller (tactical) but anything involving a full Galaxy or multiple Galaxies coordinating (strategic), not so much.
As TK succinctly put, CBS was the 'more with less' Clan, making the absolute most out of a perennially poor position in terms of resources. They did this for the near entirety of their existence, centuries long.
OTP REVIVAL Trials tells us on page 16 "The elite warriors of the Blood Spirit touman employ a brilliant defensive strategy borne of their determination to protect their holdings"
They were wise enough to contract their strategic positions to the point of leaving their Pentagon enclaves rather than sacrifice resources for symbolism and sentiment. In regards to Foster, this netted them Elementals for their troubles. They made a different strategic contraction to trade unneeded WarShips for Galaxies of BattleMechs.
The unveiling of the OmniMech saw Khan Ceana Boques initiate a number of programs to counterbalance Omnis and the Spirits' expected lack of them, most notably the Spirits extreme Warrior training and the training of the lower castes to fight.
These are some examples of a strong strategic grasp in my eyes. When you consider that strategy defined is "the science or art of combining and employing the means of war in planning and directing large military movements and operations," I can't really find anything that states the Spirits were poor at this, and one source that says precisely the opposite. Tactics, "the art or science of disposing military or naval forces for battle and maneuvering them in battle," is perhaps more where you could make your case about large-scale operations, but so much of that is tied to the historically top-heavy Spirit command structure and it's rigidity. But first you had to kill some Spirit officers to disrupt that, and that reminds me of a quote from an old TV show I enjoy, "The first step of making tiger stew: first you must catch the tiger."
You really cannot take away their actions during the Burrock Absorption and say "hey, other than this, they were brilliant!" 'cause that's one of the few really pertinent accounts we have to CBS doing literally anything in canon lore.
Indeed I can. The Crusader Clan FM out and out states the great failing of the Blood Spirits in their planning for the Absorption War was that the Burrocks hated the Spirits as much as they hated the Burrocks, and would sooner join with their absorbers than see the Spirits triumphant. I don't really think that's a doctrinal issue with the Spirits, and besides which, the Star Adder entries later in that same book make it clear the Spirits inflicted massive damage on their Touman that their Burrock abtakha only partly made up for. I look forward to the upcoming historical to flesh this most interesting conflict out further.
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In some ways I can see the Adders issue with the Blood Spirits being more overblown than anything especially as the entire issue was the Spirits interfering in the Burrock Absortion. Something decidedly against the way the Trial system worked. The years afterwords were the Adders punishing the Spirits for that. The Blood Spirits might have been able to deal with the issue with diplomacy. But the better bet would have been to wait until after the Adders Absorbed the Burrocks and then targeted former Burrock units with raids in legal trials.
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was wondering if there is any information on the Spirit's first Sakhan Devon Boques history etc.
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was wondering if there is any information on the Spirit's first Sakhan Devon Boques history etc.
Not really. The early years of the Blood Spirits were only explored in a few Battlecorp stories that came out around the time the book Historical: Operation Klondike I think. Not sure he was a character in any of those.
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what if 2 minor bloodhouse ;s decided to create a new bloodhouse or name would there still be a trial of blood rite
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They'd hyphenate it, like the Mandril did...
TT
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thanks for the info true tanker next question did the Spirit.s get ahold of any Inner Sphere Mechs and or designs
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thanks for the info true tanker next question did the Spirit.s get ahold of any Inner Sphere Mechs and or designs
During the Clan invasion I doubt it. Although they had a large collection of Star League era mechs.
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During the Clan invasion I doubt it. Although they had a large collection of Star League era mechs.
One could easily take most of the IS mechs from CI and fluff/paint them up as 2nd line mechs for any of the smaller clans. Some simple weapon upgrades and HS/armor tweaking and you are talking some solid machines. They would have good guns and learn to play the heat curve quickly.
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One could easily take most of the IS mechs from CI and fluff/paint them up as 2nd line mechs for any of the smaller clans. Some simple weapon upgrades and HS/armor tweaking and you are talking some solid machines. They would have good guns and learn to play the heat curve quickly.
Really, between the huge amount of materiel the Smoke Jaguars shipped to Huntress, whatever the Steel Vipers and Hell's Horses brought back with them following their expulsions, and the ever-present merchant-warriors of Clan Diamond Shark, there's a chance that pretty much any Inner Sphere 'Mech up to about 3067ish found its way to the Homeworlds. Out of the current plastic line, I think the only 'Mechs I'd consider hard no's are Sneed's FrankenMech (since it's unique) and the Regent (because it's post-Wars of Reaving).
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TRO:3055U notes the presence of designs like the Dart among the Jaguar forces on Huntress despite no records of any of those 'Mechs lost in action against that Clan, and it was theorized the Clans were indeed trading IS equipment amongst themselves.
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Really, between the huge amount of materiel the Smoke Jaguars shipped to Huntress, whatever the Steel Vipers and Hell's Horses brought back with them following their expulsions, and the ever-present merchant-warriors of Clan Diamond Shark, there's a chance that pretty much any Inner Sphere 'Mech up to about 3067ish found its way to the Homeworlds. Out of the current plastic line, I think the only 'Mechs I'd consider hard no's are Sneed's FrankenMech (since it's unique) and the Regent (because it's post-Wars of Reaving).
doh, I should have noted I was referencing the amount of SL tech left from the Exodus that they could have kept up or relied upon. There's TRO Golden Century which skins a lot of mechs for Clan use.
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Another example: the Cobras aquired a wrecked axample of the Tarantula and then based a new 4-legged Mech on it. Plus the Recguide IlClan Classics stated that the clans often pressed captured IS Mechs into service with their garrisons though they would often upgrade said Mechs
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Parts are cheap and the Techs have the time and the need to do refit to at least Royals standard.
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More like upgrading them with Clan weapons and a swap of the heatsinks to the common Double heatsinks while perhaps slapping on some more armor to boot. That alone turns any IS Mech into a more potent one considering the more compact Clan weaponry. Heck just take a Lonbgow and then swap the LRM batteries with their Clan counterparts. That frees up so much tonnage you probably don't know what to do with
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More like upgrading them with Clan weapons and a swap of the heatsinks to the common Double heatsinks while perhaps slapping on some more armor to boot. That alone turns any IS Mech into a more potent one considering the more compact Clan weaponry. Heck just take a Lonbgow and then swap the LRM batteries with their Clan counterparts. That frees up so much tonnage you probably don't know what to do with
lol, easy ... go cheap. Instead of going to DHS, keep the SHS and just add more (works for many mechs). Don't forget the Improved versions of intro (level 1) weapons. Short lived but would help keep BV2 down. Systems I'd swap for clan standard: MGs & Flamers.
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lol, easy ... go cheap. Instead of going to DHS, keep the SHS and just add more (works for many mechs). Don't forget the Improved versions of intro (level 1) weapons. Short lived but would help keep BV2 down. Systems I'd swap for clan standard: MGs & Flamers.
BV only exists In Universe for the Arcade Rangers, though...No-one is going "We will use this less efficient thing to keep BV down." They are going "What do we have around that we can use? As we are Clan, we have plenty of Double Sinks..let's swap those in, and then see about other stuff..Think we can put in CASE for the ammo weapons, and, you know, that is all the ammoo systems we have, anyway..."
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available supply, 'cost' effectiveness, production ability/speed/reliability, etc (ie I can't think of other reason) ... all could fair reasons for SHS. Keeping SHS would be a much faster upgrade I think
you are correct, though. DHS makes everything more palatable, especially when it comes to energy weapons.
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available supply, 'cost' effectiveness, production ability/speed/reliability, etc (ie I can't think of other reason) ... all could fair reasons for SHS. Keeping SHS would be a much faster upgrade I think
you are correct, though. DHS makes everything more palatable, especially when it comes to energy weapons.
And Blood Spirits love our energy weapons, especially ER Large Lasers and Heavy Lasers. I would think that, because of that, DHS are almost assured on any Blood Spirit refits, if for no other reason than the heat generation. Also, just the making a new factory to manufacture Single Sinks, and engines with single sinks, would be an issue in the long run.
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During the Clan invasion I doubt it. Although they had a large collection of Star League era mechs.
Kestrel and Bandit(whoop, was an existing clan before Dragoons, my bad) are an odd duck in that respect. Even if they're not Mechs.
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Posted a fast transport for ProtoMech based on Donar: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,83305.0.html
Slapped together a short fluff for it. So not necessarily final.
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Don't forget the huge numbers of Star League era mechs the Spirits got from the Ravens in exchange for warships. The Spirits had decades of experience in upgrading designs to be effective.
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And Blood Spirits love our energy weapons, especially ER Large Lasers and Heavy Lasers. I would think that, because of that, DHS are almost assured on any Blood Spirit refits, if for no other reason than the heat generation. Also, just the making a new factory to manufacture Single Sinks, and engines with single sinks, would be an issue in the long run.
True, true ... but we're also resource strapped, so to speak. Upgrade what you can, use the left overs too. I like the flavor of SHS for 2nd line and training (basically 3rd tier for clans imo) equipment and DHS for front line -- but that's not how the fiction goes. DHS units are definitely sexier.
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here's an idea after the clan invasion thr Spirits WERE able to get the hands on new Inner sphere designa and were able to improve them . my idea would be for a light mech light the Holander with alternate main weapons such a energy based
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The Blood Spirits for a long time were pretty much in isolation which would give the Clan a long time to tinker with technology and designs. It was only the raw material issue that caused them issues.
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I think it's both, actually. WoK notes that not only have the Spirits had less access to modern technology due to their isolation, but they were horrified to learn that the Inner Sphere's technological level ranged from near-parity to surpassing them in some areas. Their development of ProtoMechs (not to mention the ProtoMechWarrior phenotype) was the only notable technological development we've really seen from them since then.
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Really, between the huge amount of materiel the Smoke Jaguars shipped to Huntress, whatever the Steel Vipers and Hell's Horses brought back with them following their expulsions, and the ever-present merchant-warriors of Clan Diamond Shark, there's a chance that pretty much any Inner Sphere 'Mech up to about 3067ish found its way to the Homeworlds. Out of the current plastic line, I think the only 'Mechs I'd consider hard no's are Sneed's FrankenMech (since it's unique) and the Regent (because it's post-Wars of Reaving).
I gotta think some entrepreneurial tech and some hard driving warriors came up with some wacky frankenmechs during the hard times
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TO bad could work a deal with the sharks or Scorpions for raw materials or the opportunity togain new territory
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For a lot of the time the Blood Spirits existed they didn't trial or even attend council meetings. They only had the gear they had from there early years which meant that there probably was a lot of tinkering with weapons tech. Anyone wonder if the Spirits came up with something interesting but couldn't do anything with it because lack of rescources?
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true resources were limited but what the Spirit's needed a were a few leaders with some vision and foresight
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how often did the Spirit's take bondsman ? was it common or rare opportunity
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how often did the Spirit's take bondsman ? was it common or rare opportunity
I think it was rare on both sides of the equation
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how often did the Spirit's take bondsman ? was it common or rare opportunity
Per WoK: "To describe the Blood Spirits as insular would be an understatement. They rarely take bondsmen, and often attempt bondsref rather than be taken in by other Clans. Those few taken by other Clans rival the Fire Mandrills in their lack of cooperation."
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The only Spirit bondsman I know of from canon was from before they were detailed - Sumner Johns, an ASF pilot from the Wolf Clan sourcebook.
Basically an anomaly.
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[t seems like there could be some benefit for the clan if they took a few bondsmen because they could bring in new ldeas that could help
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[t seems like there could be some benefit for the clan if they took a few bondsmen because they could bring in new ldeas that could help
Benefit from new ideas?
Maybe you don't really get the Blood Spirits' whole thing. :wink:
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it was a random thought some times i think the spirits need a good swift kick to get them going
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it was a random thought some times i think the spirits need a good swift kick to get them going
So did Clan Star Adder.
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At the time of the wolverine annihilation what if the Spirit's worked out a behind closed doors to save some of Clan Wolverine members and threw settling new worlds that they did not tell other clan's. the discovery of new planes was a joint venture between the 2 clans with sharing of resources and new tech. After the trial was finished and if any questions were asked about the number of dead wolverines the Spirits could say sloppy accounting on the Widowmaker clan or Clan Mongoose were blinded by there due to their zell and hatred of Clan Wolverine. Which could give the Spirit's new resources in the future and use trails t claim Wolverine terriory and equipment
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I think that's a good "what if" point of history for CBS.
I like to think "What if" CBS went all in to aid the Wolverines, by doing so pushed some of the other clans to a more neutral stance or even gain some more allies, like the CSR (after proof it was not CWv who detonated the nuke) ... Perhaps even stymieing their 'complete' annihilation. Really throw a wrench into clan politics for the next two centuries.
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Benefit from new ideas?
Maybe you don't really get the Blood Spirits' whole thing. :wink:
The Spirits' embracing of ProtoMechs, up to and including developing a phenotype specifically for them, shows that the Spirits are absolutely able to benefit from new ideas.
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I think that's a good "what if" point of history for CBS.
I like to think "What if" CBS went all in to aid the Wolverines, by doing so pushed some of the other clans to a more neutral stance or even gain some more allies, like the CSR (after proof it was not CWv who detonated the nuke) ... Perhaps even stymieing their 'complete' annihilation. Really throw a wrench into clan politics for the next two centuries.
Honestly it’s one of the things written for my Wolverine AU and I do have the Spirits pegged as an ‘ally’ for them.
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Personally, I don't see the Spirits ever doing that. These aren't the Spirits of the 3060s that we know, with nothing but contempt and hatred for the other Clans. These were the Spirits of the Klondike era, who were all in on Nicholas Kerensky and trying to keep the other Clans unified. It's just not in them to rebel against that; it would be massively out-of-character for them.
But for the sake of argument, let's say that they did break with the other Clans and sided with the Wolverines. Then we'd have just ended up with two dead Clans instead of one.
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I think that's a good "what if" point of history for CBS.
I like to think "What if" CBS went all in to aid the Wolverines, by doing so pushed some of the other clans to a more neutral stance or even gain some more allies, like the CSR (after proof it was not CWv who detonated the nuke) ... Perhaps even stymieing their 'complete' annihilation. Really throw a wrench into clan politics for the next two centuries.
What ultimately set Wolverines on the path to doom wasn't the fact that they step out of line or tried to leave it's that they tried to go back to the Inner Sphere which went against direct orders of General Kerensky and was pretty much the mockery of the sacrifices and hardships endured by SLDF and their descendants
Had Wolverines decided to migrate somewhere deeper into galaxy Nicolas would have had more problems mobilizing less aggressive Clans against them as they would have been perceived as less of an political issue and it would have opened possibility of other Clans cooperating with them while severely limiting Widowmaker's options when trying to frame them
Odds are they would still be targeted and absorbed but it would not be a guaranteed scenario and things would have never escalated towards annihilation
But their chosen destination was an affront to everything other Clans believed in and sacrificed for therefore they were completely on their own and no alliance with anyone was possible
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What ultimately set Wolverines on the path to doom wasn't the fact that they step out of line or tried to leave it's that they tried to go back to the Inner Sphere which went against direct orders of General Kerensky and was pretty much the mockery of the sacrifices and hardships endured by SLDF and their descendants
That's... not true at all. Like not even remotely true.
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The Wolverines died because Kerensky needed a example. Nothing more. And sadly the Wolverines stuck there nose out by literally being the best at what they did. The Clans like the Blood Spirits that showed some support for the Wolverines might have just missed out being on the chopping block themselves. What it did do was make the Blood Spirits targets for trials by the Burrocks.
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as it is written, but I do like the "what-if" scenarios. Having the Wolverines lead a block versus NK would have been a cool alt-plot. I thought I read that some of the other clans were on the fence, it's all what-if. But imagine if they'd been able to stymie the whole thing to just enough. Or if the splintering of the Clans happened much, much sooner. Or if the Trial of Annihilation basically failed ... perhaps the Wolverines fought well enough, then stayed.
Ok, back to our regular lamentation of what is! (j/k).
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Taasa Kay you do hav a good point on the protomech issue
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as it is written, but I do like the "what-if" scenarios. Having the Wolverines lead a block versus NK would have been a cool alt-plot. I thought I read that some of the other clans were on the fence, it's all what-if. But imagine if they'd been able to stymie the whole thing to just enough. Or if the splintering of the Clans happened much, much sooner. Or if the Trial of Annihilation basically failed ... perhaps the Wolverines fought well enough, then stayed.
Ok, back to our regular lamentation of what is! (j/k).
Imagine if the Wolverines had beaten the Wolves and Nicky K in a Trial of Annihilation? The Wolverines and not the Wolves might have been the foremost Clan. Did the Clans at that point have Bondsmen?
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dunno. Also, how bad would they have bled themselves dry? Talk about "tossed salad and scrambled eggs" ...
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dunno. Also, how bad would they have bled themselves dry? Talk about "tossed salad and scrambled eggs" ...
Well that's a possibility that the Wolverines would have been bled dry but the Wolves would probably no longer exist and the Wolverines might have gained all there assets to compensate like the Star Adders did to the Burrocks. Any weakness would be short term with Wolverine Allies, like the Blood Spirits becoming more important in the long term.
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Prior to the Wolverine Anhilation did the Blood Spirits trade for any mechs like the Stag or the Puliverizer mechs
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Prior to the Wolverine Anhilation did the Blood Spirits trade for any mechs like the Stag or the Puliverizer mechs
Far too new of a design so no. They got picked up by the Snow Ravens after the Annihilation and a few might have made there way into the Blood Spirit forces after the Warships for Mechs deal.
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that's what i thought thanks stormlion
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that's what i thought thanks stormlion
The Pulverizer would be a good design for the Blood Spirits to field as a training mech for Sibkos or pulled out to fight the Star Adders on York.
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Despite Endo-Steel and FF Armor it has a Standard Engine, Large Lasers and LRMs and is rugged very similar to a Kingfisher (fluff wise duh). I’m pairing them up in my own Blood Spirit Star.
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Despite Endo-Steel and FF Armor it has a Standard Engine, Large Lasers and LRMs and is rugged very similar to a Kingfisher (fluff wise duh). I’m pairing them up in my own Blood Spirit Star.
I have two for a Wolverine Force but now I'm thinking I might need another for my Blood Spirits now. May build another Trinary around one of the Galaxys lost during the Burrock Absorbtion.
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Despite Endo-Steel and FF Armor it has a Standard Engine, Large Lasers and LRMs and is rugged very similar to a Kingfisher (fluff wise duh). I’m pairing them up in my own Blood Spirit Star.
Same! And as it’s a second line Mech that the ravens produced and the spirits traded warships for second line mechs I can see the spirits having them
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The Pulverizer would also pair well with Shogun Cs, Highlander IICs, Blood Kites, Crocketts and Marauder IIcs
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did the wolverine's and spirit's have any joint ventures prior to the aniliation?
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did the wolverine's and spirit's have any joint ventures prior to the aniliation?
Not that we are aware. Nothing was mentioned in Betrayal of Ideals. Unfortunately, that is the only information we really have about the Not-Named Clan.
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For Klondike, the Blood Spirits went to Arcadia and the Wolverines were on Circe. However, it's almost certain that the Blood Spirits would have sent an ilChi ambassador to the Wolverines, and it was the Blood Spirits' expression of sympathy for the Wolverines that started Clan Burrock's feud with them.
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were there any Bloodnames that survived the annnihilation
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Wolverine bloodnames? No, not officially. Though it's highly interesting that the Wolverine's Watch commander was Trish Ebon, and in the 3040s, the Magistracy of Canopus stood up a super-secret spy division called the Ebon Magistrate and got super good at espionage tradecraft and technology. (The apocryphal BattleCorps Iron Writer story "Darkness" all but confirms the Ebon Magistrate got its tech from Clan Wolverine.)
Blood Spirit bloodnames? Possibly, but only to the extent that they'd been claimed in a Trial of Possession by other Clans. Abtakha Blood Spirits that ended up in the Inner Sphere circa 3095 would have been given the opportunity to restart their Bloodhouses per the Edict of Severance.
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Shrapnel Issue 3 explicitly confirms that at least the Boques Bloodname did make it to the Inner Sphere.
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A certain detective novel exists that says another might have made it
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i guess both clans here's a new idea what if clan Blood Spirit was resurected with Spirit and Wolverine Blood names
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i guess both clans here's a new idea what if clan Blood Spirit was resurected with Spirit and Wolverine Blood names
That sounds like a great way to bring the Invading and Homeworld Clans back together, as they burn every last trace of that abomination from the universe. Clanners have murdered Inner Sphere citizens for merely being distantly related to members of Clan Wolverine. As the Homeworlds have become even more conservative and the Invaders have firmly entrenched themselves in the Inner Sphere, any attempt to resurrect any aspect of the Wolverines is going to be met with ludicrously overwhelming violence.
A new Clan Blood Spirit? Maybe. But never the Wolverines.
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Sadly I have to agree. Despite my wish that Clan Wolverine could be reborn, I doubt it will happen (without SERIOUS bloodshed). Clan Blood Spirit was ‘Absorbed’ where the Wolverines were Annihilated. If the Blood Spirits arrived with any sort of presence in the Inner Sphere there would probably be some sort of Trial to determine their status: the Homeworld Clans being cut off intentionally means the Adders Trial would be left in legal hell. They MIGHT treat them like the Nova Cats and abjure them, they might treat them like the Scorpions and ignore them. Who knows?
Personally…. I’d think it would be funny if say a broken Spirit Galaxy shows up at the Escorpion Imperio and is absorbed. Some random Mandrills too lol
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Personally…. I’d think it would be funny if say a broken Spirit Galaxy shows up at the Escorpion Imperio and is absorbed. Some random Mandrills too lol
Although no warriors were taken some Fire Mandrills lower castes were taken before the Scorpions pulled out the homeworlds.
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Some of the Green Ghost mechs have been seen sporting Blood Spirit insignia.
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Some of the Green Ghost mechs have been seen sporting Blood Spirit insignia.
The Word of Blake was rarely shy about using false insignia.
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The Word of Blake was rarely shy about using false insignia.
That's if you believe they were a WoB operation for there entire existence.
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Shrapnel Issue 3 explicitly confirms that at least the Boques Bloodname did make it to the Inner Sphere.
Which is a little silly to me, given how Blood Spirits are amongst the worst possible bondsmen one could take (and who would even target them with a Harvest Trial to begin with?), but c'est la vie. Hardly the only questionable thing I've read in Shrapnel.
Although no warriors were taken some Fire Mandrills lower castes were taken before the Scorpions pulled out the homeworlds.
Some warriors were taken, actually: Fire Mandrill Star Colonel Hampton Schroeder as a named example (whom Khan Suvorov beat in a boxing-match Trial of Possession), and WoR also notes that the few Mandrills survivors taken off Dagda were mostly warriors, scientists, and technicians.
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Slightly off topic. Anyone think the Blood Spirits were using the Diamond Sharks to ship Mechs, Armor, etc from the Inner Sphere to pad there forces out? Bring captured gear and give it the IIc treatment? I know the Spirits were on trading terms with them and they probably could have gotten mechs for cheap from the Inner Sphere. Or would there distaste have stopped such a deal?
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Slightly off topic. Anyone think the Blood Spirits were using the Diamond Sharks to ship Mechs, Armor, etc from the Inner Sphere to pad there forces out? Bring captured gear and give it the IIc treatment? I know the Spirits were on trading terms with them and they probably could have gotten mechs for cheap from the Inner Sphere. Or would there distaste have stopped such a deal?
We know that the Spirits were shocked to find out that the Inner Sphere was near-parity to them in technology (exceeding in some areas), but I don't see the Spirits spending the resources to have Spheroid equipment shipped all that way to them when there's plenty of likely-cheaper (and in their eyes, better) alternatives closer to home.
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It would be very pragmatic (somewhat desperate maybe) to do so ... so no. While we should, we wouldn't.
BUT remember its your (ours) game!
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It would be very pragmatic (somewhat desperate maybe) to do so ... so no. While we should, we wouldn't.
BUT remember its your (ours) game!
It’s one thing if you’re the Jaguars sending IS machines back to ‘study’ and then assigning them to your Garrison forces. It’s another thing if you are the Spirits and you’re cash/resource strapped to begin with: what are you going to bargain with?
Now OTOH if I had information on IS designs I would Trial to get the better ones: zombie mechs that I could upgrade to Clan variants: Thunderbolts, Awesomes, Grasshoppers, Guillotines and the like.
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Now OTOH if I had information on IS designs I would Trial to get the better ones: zombie mechs that I could upgrade to Clan variants: Thunderbolts, Awesomes, Grasshoppers, Guillotines and the like.
The Spirits already have access to plenty of solid designs. Inner Sphere design imports are not only against their character to do, they’re simply unnecessary. It’s not Mechs they’re hurting for, it’s resources.
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So randomly (although on a similar topic)…
Do you think the Blood Spirits would have willing be absorbed by any other the other Clans? Obviously the Star Adders were going to Annihilate them at any opportunity, with the Cobra agreeing and the Coyotes and Stone Lions at a parity for strength… so there weren’t a lot of opportunities.
But what about the Inner Sphere Clans or the Scorpions? Do you think that had any Spirits made it that far that they would have been ‘willingly’ absorbed like the former Ice Hellions? Or do you think that their mentality of isolation would have been their ultimate fate regardless?
More of a thought exercise than anything, I just want to get some opinions on the idea. Maybe submit it to the Fanfic ideas board later
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No. The Spirits’ hatred of the other Clans (save a very few exceptions like the Mandrills) ran very, very deep, and was an intrinsic part of their identity.
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I could see them pulling a Hells Horses though by taking over worlds on the Periphery side to free up Home Clan units for use elsewhere. The problem is the Jade Falcons just got rid of the Steel Vipers, the Ghost Bears wouldn't need them and the Wolves already have the Hells Horses for that.
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Crusader Clan or not, I don’t see the Spirits invading or migrating the Inner Sphere (or anywhere else) under any conceivable circumstance. They don’t have the capability of taking and holding territory in a military campaign while still being able to defend York, and they don’t have the transport capacity to transplant their tens of millions of civilians (who I don’t see them leaving behind; they’re a very tightly-knit people that are committed to each other).
Now, if they hadn’t interfered in the Burrock Absorption, that’s a very different story. Before that ill-conceived action, the Spirits fielded twelve Galaxies, which would allow them to be much more adventurous/less conservative in their offensive operations. But as things unfolded up to that point, they simply can’t do it. Nor would they particularly want to.
The thought exercise is fun, but I just don’t see a scenario in which the Spirits would ever willingly submit to Absorption by another Clan, and especially not to an Inner Sphere Clan. It’s just not in their character to do so; Blood Spirits are literally raised on a diet of hatred towards the other Clans, to the point where they refuse integration into other Clans when taken as isorla, and are content to stand and die in the defense of their home.
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Willing to be absorbed? Absolutely not. They'd rather die and did in the end.
Had different choices led to an altered path? I could see points of cooperation like with the Diamond Sharks, Fire Mandrills and Snow Ravens. Nothing is impossible in fiction but likely?
I don't subscribe to they couldn't change. They tried to at points, but their comfort zone was in a twisted orthodoxy that every time they returned to, their grudge list was both broader and deeper and digging themselves from that all but impossible. To unjam that, you'd require major revision *somewhere*. Irony is they fell as the system they espoused said they should.
Like, had they not interfered in the Burrock absorption? They'd have been worlds better equipped for what came later. Or had their first decent Khan in some time not died in fighting the Steel Vipers reaving campaign or later yet not just charge head first into the fighting at the Steel Vipers? They'd have something to work with, instead of the shell shocked survivors being led in part by a bitter failure. Heck, let's say their bolt hold hadn't been found and they'd given no further offense to the Star Adders? They'd just as much chance as the Coyotes.
The problem with alliances is they didn't have trust with many. The Snow Ravens used them to cover their exit, the Cloud Cobras likewise lost their phone number real quick. The Fire Mandrills died and what little was left of them brought into the Blood Spirits. The Diamond Sharks sold them out. The Ice Hellions viewed them as competition and so on. That's leaving off the pressure they were under between Burrocks, Star Adders or the Steel Vipers or lack of transports they traded off to survive as long as they did.
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later yet not just charge head first into the fighting at the Steel Vipers?
It’s never addressed in the writing, but I’m convinced that Banacek intentionally had the Spirits leading the charges on Circe and New Kent specifically to weaken them. It seems a very Adder thing to do, plus why would the insular Spirits give a damn about prosecuting the Viper Annihilation when they could just throw a token force in and watch the Clans they hate so much beat each other to death?
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I don't exactly disagree, but we just don't know. I suspect you're right as the Blood Spirits had reverted to type at that moment, willing to blindly follow the Clans leadership and do as they were told.
My other little twig is that Karianna Schmitt was a clone of Colleen Schmitt, by the very small Society element present in the Clan but she wasn't reaved by dint of not being a warrior at the time the Steel Vipers came by and thus an after thought. No proof obviously but there's definitely a few suggestive lines here and there.
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I wouldn’t exactly call that reverting to type, and it seems doubly odd for them to submit to a Star Adder ilKhan, but it is what it is, I suppose. Literally my only gripe with the otherwise-excellent WoR was how the Spirits were handled in the end.
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I'd have been happier if they survived myself but that's what AUs are for. The AU WoR campaign I discussed here years ago raised some ire at me and I've been working on another one lately hence my conversation over in the Fire Mandrill thread.
I had my hopes raised when Blood Avatar suggested that there could be something for us Blood Spirits but I don't see the possibility anymore.
Edited that to be not quite as salty sounding.
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Hey, if there’s any thread where salt makes sense, it’s this one. We Blood Spirits subsist on salt and hatred. Canonical fact! :drinking01:
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And here I thought it was work/family/genetics causing my high blood pressure! :tongue:
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Thanks all for the comments: like I said just thinking out loud
Hey, if there’s any thread where salt makes sense, it’s this one. We Blood Spirits subsist on salt and hatred. Canonical fact! :drinking01:
The Clans exist on salt lol. Name one non-salty Clan at some point in their career?
I'd have been happier if they survived myself but that's what AUs are for. The AU WoR campaign I discussed here years ago raised some ire at me and I've been working on another one lately hence my conversation over in the Fire Mandrill thread.
I had my hopes raised when Blood Avatar suggested that there could be something for us Blood Spirits but I don't see the possibility anymore.
Edited that to be not quite as salty sounding.
I’d like to know more about it honestly
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It's baking at the moment. I've got some art coming in at some point when their main gig allows them time to complete commissions so keep an eye out in the Fan art section. Once my research is deeper in, I'll post some stuff in Fan units and fiction too. A couple of fellows here and SB have been proofing my initial ideas but nothings quite ready for release yet.
But as a tease, I'll spoil the working title: The Eternal Khan.
But back to following canon events, I just caught up on the HTP Foster pdf and I do wish they'd follow up with a brush war piece on the Burrock Absorption. The details of the Burrocks, Blood Spirits and Star Adders toumans at their heights before that event would be lovely.
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The Clans exist on salt lol. Name one non-salty Clan at some point in their career?
You’re missing the point. The Blood Spirits are defined as a faction by their bitterness and salt towards the other Clans. It’s their primary trait.
I do wish they'd follow up with a brush war piece on the Burrock Absorption. The details of the Burrocks, Blood Spirits and Star Adders toumans at their heights before that event would be lovely.
It's already in the works, if you weren’t aware, as part of the upcoming Brush Wars series.
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Excellent. I was hoping it'd come but given all the IlClan era stuff and plastic miniatures sets I figured it be awhile if ever.
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I'm looking at creating an assault point for the Spirit starting with 2 King Crabs 1 Atlas 1 Stalker 1 Awesome
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Your Assault Star looks good on paper. What are you planning to assault with it?
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Another research question. Have we ever figured out which three Warships we traded to the Snow Ravens for 2 Galaxies of equipment?
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Another research question. Have we ever figured out which three Warships we traded to the Snow Ravens for 2 Galaxies of equipment?
No, unfortunately, because they never appear or get a mention in print anywhere.
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Dang, that'd make it too easy. Oh well.
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Pure speculation, but if the Eden Rose (Potemkin-class) isn't originally of Clan Blood Spirit, I will be truly shocked.
My rationale:
1. It's named after something that is pinkish/reddish. Common theme with the Blood Spirit warship names.
2. The Eden Rose itself (the flower) is named after a poet who also served as a diplomat.
3. Almost every Clan warship fleet has at least one Potemkin. Talking about the 3050s-3060s. The Nova Cats have a LOT of Carracks instead, the Crusader Wolves lost theirs to the Exiled Wolves, and the Jade Falcons don't but otherwise have a large fleet, that's it. All the other Clans, even the Fire Mandrills and Ice Hellions, had a Potemkin. The Blood Spirits don't... and I wonder if it's because they traded it away.
I can come up with arguments for a few other vessels in the Snow Raven fleet. Morning Violence makes me think "red sky in the morning" or a red sunrise, and keeps with the red theme, Scabbard (has been used as a symbol of peace, and keeping a blade in its scabbard can be seen as a moment in which one is using words and not swords), Kerensky's Hope (feels extremely optimistic, reminiscent of the Blood Spirits early days as a unifying force, but a philosophy they had gotten away from over the decades and they then might have discarded the ship as well, but weak argument I admit), Bloody Talon (they already have a Blood Kite, Blood Fury, Stooping Kite, it fits, even if it also fits with bird Clans as well). However, all of these are mostly based on 1 rationale as opposed to multiple ones. Weak arguments.
I'd stand by Eden Rose a bit; the others just make a short list of respectable possibilities in my mind.
We also have to be mindful of the fact that the Clans have been known to rename warships. So, it's also just possible the Snow Ravens renamed their former Blood Spirit warships in the same process of recommissioning them as Snow Raven warships.
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One other possibility for the name of the Eden Rose: it could simply be named for flora native to Eden. Given the importance of the Pentagon worlds to the Clans, I’d say there’s at least an equal chance (if not greater) than a Clan naming a WarShip after a line written by a French Renaissance poet.
The Scabbard I feel is named as it is because of its original appearance in the JFSB, as all of its attached DropShips are named after bladed weapons. Makes perfect sense that the Scabbard would be named so as that’s where they were “sheathed”. Makes even more sense as I go through the JFSB and notice that this seems to be a common thread with their WarShip/DropShip combos, keeping them under a single naming theme.
Another research question. Have we ever figured out which three Warships we traded to the Snow Ravens for 2 Galaxies of equipment?
Just a quick addendum: the Spirits only received one Galaxy’s worth of ‘Mechs, not two, per FM:WC.
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FM Crusader Clans, which deals with the Blood Spirit end of the arrangement says two Galaxies of second line was traded for the three Warships. That there's discrepancy between the two accounts is typical.
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FM Crusader Clans, which deals with the Blood Spirit end of the arrangement says two Galaxies of second line was traded for the three Warships. That there's discrepancy between the two accounts is typical.
Oh, I see what you’re seeing: Omicron and Omega.
Ironically, FM:CC contradicts itself here because Omicron says in its own entry that it was formed much earlier than that: as one of the first second-line Galaxies formed after the Spirits acquired OmniMech technology. It also says in Omega Galaxy’s entry that it was formed in the same year as Omicron was claimed to have been, and also as part of the final shipment.
That leads me to believe that only Omega Galaxy was formed in 3010 and the FM:WC entry is actually correct, because it gives the specifics of the deal: “By the fall of 2979, we had reached an agreement; over the next three decades, we would supply the Blood Spirits with the equivalent of a Galaxy of 'Mechs in exchange for three of their WarShips.”
I think the writer intended to say Omega and not Omicron, and editorial didn’t catch it.
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Sarna refers me to page 21, but I found the relevant section on page 24 leading to 25. They didn't give a number until the last shipment, which was used in the standing up of Omnicron Galaxy. To me, the wording previous to that covered *allot* of equipment going to the Blood Spirits over several decades - much more than a single Galaxy's worth. They just stood up a new Galaxy with the last shipment. That it misaligns with other materials both in the book and ithers is as I say typical.
Confusing matters too is the Blood Spirits penchant to breaking up Clusters and Galaxies, reforming them.
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Unfortunately, nothing exists to support that in the text except for a single mention of Omicron at the top of page 25 in FM:CC. Every other direct reference, in both FM:CC and FM:WC, pretty clearly indicates that only a single Galaxy’s worth of ‘Mechs were shipped over the course of those decades, and that it was specifically Omega that was formed. Omicron already existed well before that deal ever came to be. Also, FWIW, newer canon sources trump older, and FM:WC (which specifies the terms of the deal) is the newer source.
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I'll agree with you up to the point that it should probably have been Omega, not Omicron but the rest? Open to my interpretation just as much as yours. It's murky, like half the writing that gets too cute for itself. On one hand it says build them up by more than a magnitude and another that they raised one new Galaxy with the last Shipment. It's just as easy to say the Warden Book is also in error, though it is at least more likely it isn't. Both are 25 years old and have errors that we don't need to litigate over.
At least for my purposes the warships are what matters not the Snow Ravens gave in return for them. The speculation is interesting at least though again, we can't really say.
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I'll agree with you up to the point that it should probably have been Omega, not Omicron but the rest? Open to my interpretation just as much as yours. It's murky, like half the writing that gets too cute for itself. On one hand it says build them up by more than a magnitude and another that they raised one new Galaxy with the last Shipment. It's just as easy to say the Warden Book is also in error, though it is at least more likely it isn't. Both are 25 years old and have errors that we don't need to litigate over.
Fair enough, but it’s telling that more than one source specifies that it was a single Galaxy, creative wording like “order of magnitude” aside. But for the sake of putting it to rest (because I had always assumed up until now that your position was correct, until researching it turned up more evidence to the contrary than not), I posed the question to TPTB for clarification.
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I'm nearly blind at this point, so hunting up every little reference is a trial so I rely on Sarna as a short cut. You're probably more in the right than I am in this than I am, but it's hard to say IMO. We don't have an exact accounting of the Blood Spirits until after the Burrock Absorption, then next during FM Updates then not again until the Wars of Reaving. That crucial build up period, from start to finish we don't have..
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I'm nearly blind at this point, so hunting up every little reference is a trial so I rely on Sarna as a short cut. You're probably more in the right than I am in this than I am, but it's hard to say IMO. We don't have an exact accounting of the Blood Spirits until after the Burrock Absorption, then next during FM Updates then not again until the Wars of Reaving.
The thing is, the Spirits had to get all those Galaxies they dropped on the Burrocks/Adders from somewhere, and we do kind of have a more-or-less exact accounting of them just before the Absorption: 6 front-line Galaxies (Alpha, Beta, Delta, Kappa, Pi and Omega) and 6 second-line Galaxies (Omicron, Sigma, Tau, Upsilon, Mu and Rho). So don’t think I’m not as stymied as you are here!
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Yeah I'm not trying to be cranky here. I know where you're coming from. I just figured they got more than just the Mechs. Just a Galaxy for three Warships seems a little light to me with over thirty years with multiple shipments plus as you say, they had to get the stuff they used from somewhere.
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It’s even lighter than you think, too: three WarShips for three Clusters of Mechs, because Omega Galaxy was an undersized Galaxy of three Clusters before the Burrock Absorption. It boggles the mind that this was seen as a good deal by anyone with sense.
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Good catch that Eden Rose might be a reference to something tied to the Planet Eden. You are probably right about that.
On the Scabbard... I'm aware of the synchronization between the warships and dropships named there in the Jade Falcon Sourcebook. But we know that's a Snow Raven vessel loaned to the Jade Falcons. To preserve the canon of that document I can only presume the Ravens and/or the Jade Falcons assembled the appropriately named dropships and put them with the Scabbard. Doesn't really speak to the vessel's distant origins. It could be taken as a bit of irony that such a warship was such-named (originally) to symbolize a gesture of peace, and then got sold off to a Clan that only saw it as a bladed weapon reference under its own owners/users/operators. I know that's probably a stretch, but I find the thought amusing. Either way, I made my case (and it wasn't a strong one and I'm happy to drop it.)
About the only thing I'll really hang my hat on at this point (on the topic of what the mystery missing Spirit Warships were) is a strong belief that at least one of the Blood Spirit warships came from the cargo/dropship focused warship classes. I'm talking about the Potemkin, Volga and Carrack.
The reason I say that is because every Clan fleet has at least one of those cargo/troop/dropship-centric hulls and often multiple hulls from those classes. Except the Blood Spirits as of FM: CC. Even the weak Mandrill fleet had a Carrack and Potemkin.
It's certainly possible that they lost one of these class warships in the Burrock Absorption (we know two were lost due to a reference in FM: CC). But I doubt the Carmine Justice was one, because that was the old flagship of the entire Spirit warship fleet.
So I believe 1-3 of the hulls traded to the Snow Ravens was of the Potemkin, Volga or Carrack classes. Possibly renamed after the transfer.
If I was leading Clan Blood Spirit and was looking to trade warships for 'mechs and other combat equipment, I'd probably be willing to get rid of a Volga or a Carrack, or two such vessels. Giving up a Potemkin would be a hard pill to swallow, but I could see how I might be talked into it.
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I don’t think the Spirits giving up transport WarShips would be a hard pill at all for them to swallow. They had no real need for large troop transports given their very limited holdings and lack of drive to expand those holdings or establish new ones. And given how little they actually got for those WarShips (a Galaxy of Mechs, an understrength Galaxy at that), it was probably the best deal they could get under those less-than-ideal circumstances.
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The warship loses from the Burrock Absorption were also vague IIRC. Just a number, no specifics.
Going from speculation to beyond I suppose requiring that part going to a fan area.
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EDITED: I'm gonna take a stab at the composition of the Burrock fleet. Had posted it here. But not the best thread for it. Also it needed cleaning up in terms of writing/editing.
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Bah, get that Burrock trash outta here. Did you forget where you are?! :laugh:
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Bah, get that Burrock trash outta here. Did you forget where you are?! :laugh:
I know you were at least partially kidding, but you are also right. I pulled that long-winded Burrock post. I'll put it somewhere else, also it needed some additional work.
Terminax, I sent you a PM on the Burrock fleet topic.
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I know you were at least partially kidding, but you are also right. I pulled that long-winded Burrock post. I'll put it somewhere else, also it needed some additional work.
You are welcome at the Star Adder thread azn
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You are welcome at the Star Adder thread azn
Y'all never learn, do you? :cheesy:
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I wish our annihilation had been a much harder pill to swallow ... enough to bring CSA to just a hair above the level of the other clans.
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Be interested if we had any proof of why there are nine Avatar-class, when only 6 that survived.
TT
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Be interested if we had any proof of why there are nine Avatar-class, when only 6 that survived.
The Fuego Lobo and Blood Fang are theorized to have been rechristened as the Jerome Winson and Victoria Ward when the Jade Wolves were renamed as just the Wolves, and the Morello appears to be an anachronism of some sort that hasn't had any sort of official ruling. That's about as good as you're gonna get.
Not that this is the place for this, given that the Blood Spirits got exactly zero of those ships. :laugh:
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Except, the clans never built new ones...
So where did these three appear from?
TT
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Except, the clans never built new ones...
So where did these three appear from?
The Jerome Winson and Victoria Ward are among the six named Liberators the Clans had (along with the Constantineau, the Spirit in the Sky, the Gauntlet and the Korat).
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Yes, but if you read the Liberator named vessels, there's 3 more...
And the Avatar was modified into them, there were only 5 SLDF and a captured one that Kerensky took with him. So... where did they come from, those 3 named...
TT
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Okay, let's try this one more time, LOL.
1) Constantineau
2) Spirit in the Sky
3) Gauntlet
4) Korat
5) Jerome Winson
6) Victoria Ward
7) Blood Fang (likely renamed as either the Jerome Winson or Victoria Ward, which are on the list above, when the Jade Wolves became the Wolves; see the Sarna entry)
8) Fuego Lobo (likely renamed as either the Jerome Winson or Victoria Ward, which are on the list above when the Jade Wolves became the Wolves; see the Sarna entry)
9) Morello (likely just a mistake, given the only source of it even existing is in an illustration of a listing in FM:U; there's a whole explanation for this on Sarna)
I don't know how many other ways I can keep saying the same thing here, LOL, but I really don't think this discussion belongs here at all, because this has absolutely nothing to do with the Blood Spirits.
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There's little mistakes everywhere. Try not to get too hung up on them. Between those, retcons and FASAnomics you'll drive yourself mad if you take things too seriously.
Speaking of which, bringing us back tangentially closer to Blood Spirit matters: how do the Clans conceal anything? I was under the impression every Clanner has a codex, which basically functions as your entire records of note from your genetic profile, sibko records, caste information etc Do the Clans not share this data, or is it limitedly distributed only upon contact between Clans? The Blood Spirits obviously aren't the only Clan that have kept secrets but they're definitely good at it.
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Lots of people operate under the mistaken impression that Clanners never conceal anything. Or are constantly broadcasting the truth of all things on all channels all the time. The truth is much more nuanced.
The Burrock leadership concealed their dark caste dealings. They just confined that information to people they trusted. The Wolves hid the devastation of their eugenics program after Tamar was hit by at least one nuke during the Jihad era. After the Wars of Reaving era, the Cobras hid the revelation that their eugenics program was compromised by scientist tampering (many genetic legacies corrupted) for as long as possible and worked feverishly to get more genetic material in the short term. Khan Bjorn Jorgensson was quietly a Warden in the days that the Crusaders dominated the Ghost Bears. His Warden side came out gradually through his leadership style of the Clan, and gradually it became more open as the Clan shifted toward Warden views. Ulric Kerensky played lots of games with his real intentions. Aiden Pryde concealed his identity for a long time. Falsified his codex and lived as a freeborn warrior. Years before Revival, the Jade Falcon Khans increased the number of sibkos in training, a reality that came out once the Khan had been devastated by the Refusal War and needed to rebuild quickly. But few seemed to know about it, even within the Clan.
Khan Showers was embarrassed to admit how weak Huntress's defenses were, once Taskforce Serpent took it and he had to go to the Grand Council to ask for help. So the other Clans thought Huntress's defenses were stronger. He was also then shocked by the revelation that the Jade Falcon science station on that world was also gathering intelligence on the Jaguars.
Kindraa Smythe-Jewel didn't know the Horses and Coyotes were embarking on a campaign to destroy them until they showed up and declared a batchall. But that coalition had been planning that event for a while.
We've seen many Trials between Clans where a unit was surprised at the composition/makeup of the opposing force in some way. Or where reinforcements showed up that weren't expected.
That's by no means a complete list. It just illustrates the point.
Yes there are certain levels and types of data that are meant to be open and shared. But often that only happens once you've initiated a Batchall. Even then we've seen accusations made that someone was misled. Other times a Clan only truly gains all the information once they've won a Trial and acquired the isorla, including personnel and equipment.
The book Warriors of Kerensky tells us that the Bloodname House leaders of shared bloodnames often make up for in information brokering (by gathering reports from their various Bloodname House members) what they lack in voting power in one Clan. The Diamond Sharks/Sea Foxes prided themselves on being the best at information gathering via their merchants. The Star Adders had an actual intelligence branch.
Such things would not be necessary if everything was truly shared all the time. That just isn't the case. Tradition dictates certain things are shared, but only when certain circumstances are triggered. The best known, best understood circumstance of this is when someone issues a Batchall and wants to know with what do you defend a target. You are supposed to then show your cards. But even then, it doesn't have to be everything you have, just with what you intend to defend the target.
Other times, the isorla of a Trial, such as the bondsmen/bondswomen taken, present their new Clans with their codexes and also to some extent share what they know about their old Clan.
We see things concealed all the time. We see people lie. In general the Clans TEND to be more honest and direct than Spheroids. But it's shades of different. It isn't a society that completely broadcasts every new development, every codex, every troop deployment, all the time. It's just a society that has a different set of criteria and circumstances for when/how tradition dictates you share information.
Zeroing in on what you said about codexes. I doubt they are shared all the time and continuously. Otherwise, many of the examples I laid out above would be simply impossible. You could use that codex data to constantly plot and update your understanding of the exact composition and location of every Clan warrior everywhere. Accordingly, you would be able to decipher where every Clan touman unit is. We know they don't have that information. Ergo, codex data isn't shared all the time. Just at certain moments and under certain specific circumstances as dictated by Clan law and traditions.
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have a question about new clan mech , vehicle designs coming to the clan from the inner sphere threw the Wolfs Dragoon prior to there defection in the early 3030 .? any ideas
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Admittedly, we don't know the particulars that were shared beyond the basics that the Great Houses were all still intact despite centuries of warfare, outlines of their military forces and such. Their mission changed after the 2nd Supply run do presumably their most in-depth data was on the first four contracts.
How much info passed from the Wolf Khan(s) to the Clans in general, we can't really say but we can say most of the Clans didn't pay much attention to them and those that did, didn't believe allot of it. The Blood Spirits I expect had more pressing issues at home to really make use of the data even if they believed it. Like what are you looking for? The Blood Spirits struggled as it was. Nothing from the Inner Sphere eould really aid them.
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Didn't the Crusaders clamor for invasion after the first reports from the Dragoons came in? I thought they only kept still because the Wolves convinced them to have the Dragoons work for every house at least once before they could make a final decision. Funny enough the Gray Death Legion found the Helm memory Core only near the end of the Dragoon's mission. And I think this information was never revealed to the Clans
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IntelSer kept spying through the early 3040s, and brought back word of the War of 3039. Crusaders kept putting forward votes for invasion, but kept losing Trials of Refusal to the Wardens.
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IntelSer kept spying through the early 3040s, and brought back word of the War of 3039.
Source for this? Every source seems to indicate that Intelser was more or less defunct after the Dragoon Compromise.
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Source for this? Every source seems to indicate that Intelser was more or less defunct after the Dragoon Compromise.
The Clans: Warriors of Kerensky p. 17 describes the debates between the Wardens and Crusaders, and that the Fourth Succession War and emergence of the FedCom Alliance was used as an argument that the invasion had to happen before the Steiner-Davions reunited the Inner Sphere. Ulric calmed that down when the FedCom offensive ran out of gas in 3030. Then the War of 3039 happened, and there was another panic until follow-on reports showed that the Combine effectively halted the FedCom advance.
The Dragoons stopped reporting in 3020. So the Clans having intel on the 4SW and War of 3039 implies that there was a non-Dragoon intelligence conduit still existing as late as the early 3040s. Why disband IntelSer only to rebuild something else? Plus, how were the Dragoons sending their reports back? And, given the canon times for Jaime, Natasha, and Cranston going back to the Clan Homeworlds and then getting back to the Inner Sphere, there had to have been a command circuit running all the way from the Inner Sphere to the Kerensky Cluster. Who's manning that? My answer is IntelSer.
Now, IntelSer was gone by 3049 (the reason why is written but as yet unpublished), and was then replaced by a revived Watch, but there had to have been IntelSer missions ongoing through at least 3040 for the Clans to know about the War of 3039.
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Don't forget every once in a while a jumpship from the Inner Sphere or the Periphery would get captured and the crews interrogated. News could have been gotten that way.
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They have sent the occasionally people as scouts even during the Wolf Dragoons compromise. Spotlight On: Thermo Police has a character (Kotori Nostra) whose free birth parents saw the Outworlds Alliance and assumed the worst. Who knows how many similar individuals there are.
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I think this entire topic needs to go to another thread. Blood Spirits would be the absolute last Clan to be involved in any of this anyway.
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I think this entire topic needs to go to another thread. Blood Spirits would be the absolute last Clan to be involved in any of this anyway.
Not sure. The Blood Spirits are Crusaders and would have a interest. Before the Burrock Absorbtion they would have had a small chance in a attempted invasion especially if it was a 'all hands' effort.
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Not sure. The Blood Spirits are Crusaders and would have a interest. Before the Burrock Absorbtion they would have had a small chance in a attempted invasion especially if it was a 'all hands' effort.
The Blood Spirits are also isolationists. They've never been linked to any of the intelligence-gathering efforts against the Inner Sphere and barely put up an effort to join the invasion. Hence why this topic needs to go to another thread.
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That might have been an interesting What if or alt history. Blood Spirits develop a highly effective intel service to ensure their isolation.
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Wolf Dragoons had Clan tech Warships, which meant they had an HPG onboard, they probably seeded several dead systems with the HPG Relay satellites. Also, it wouldn't be hard to have the few LF-equipped Clan transports ready at every other system, stationed for the sole purpose to double jump to the next system station.
It took one year of constant jumping 1 system at a time, so a 6-month double jump there with HPG relays communicating along the way, shouldn't be really a problem.
TT
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question did the Spirit's make any advances in warship designs or weapons improvement
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The Spirits did develop the Clantech version of the AMS, but beyond that (and of course their contributions to ProtoMech technology), nope. The Spirits were not especially technologically innovative or even in a position to be due to their scarcity of resources and apparent lack of willingness to engage with the other Clans.
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The one thing I know of Blood Spirit contribiutions is the Protomech pilot phenotype they perfected right before the Wars of Reaving. Plus the Arcadia Dropship the first carrier ship specifically for Protomechs. Though I think the Ravens gave them a helping hand in that design.
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Plus the Arcadia Dropship the first carrier ship specifically for Protomechs. Though I think the Ravens gave them a helping hand in that design.
Not even a helping hand; the Ravens straight up designed and built it for them entirely. The Spirits never produced the Arcadia themselves AFAIK.
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Not even a helping hand; the Ravens straight up designed and built it for them entirely. The Spirits never produced the Arcadia themselves AFAIK.
Well they probably paid for it. Which is what starts the whole process.
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Well they probably paid for it. Which is what starts the whole process.
Well, yes, that wasn't in dispute. In this case, they shared their ProtoMech research and pilot training protocols. But I was answering the question regarding the Spirits' technological development/ship designing. In the case of the Arcadia, they didn't actually build or even design the ship themselves, so I don't consider that to be something the Spirits should be credited with. Same situation as the Horses' HH-1 facility; they requested a mobile shipyard from the Ravens but didn't actually do any work on it themselves, just provided a list of things they wanted it to do.
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Understandable Tassa. Each Clan has its specialitys they are good on or focus on. The Spirits was taking the Protomech concept to its natural and honestly extreme conclusion. Sadly it was not enough to save them though by definition a Protomech Galaxy should have had thousands of dedicated warriors in them.
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I would say the society took it to the most extreme with it's four legged Protos which needed special drugs for the pilots to actually be able to use them and the Super Heavy Protomech. Though who knows maybe the Spirits might have come to the same result if the Reaving wars had not happen.
Another point, the Crimson Hawk: it started as a simple light Mech with a hefty punch but the Spirits lacked the resources to finish it. The Sharks "stole" it by trial and developed it fully
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Ultra Lights have been around, what even is more fun is now we have the all-mighty half ton (P)AL all the way up towards the 200-ton range.
Now what is easier, a 10-ton SH-Proto or UL-Mech? That's the question...
TT
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easier? by my hand (ala on paper) an UL mech is much easier to design. in BTU, I'm not quite sure which would be easier to produce as a manufacturer.
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Cause, SIZE, does matter...
Technically, an UL Mech is 2 Levels, while SH Proto's are 1.
TT
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That is a lot of Protomech pilots that need to be trained as well as secondary staffing like Techs and Astechs. I wonder if the Blood Spirits went out and gave another chance to failed Aerospace pilots or just dedicated whole sibkos to the program with a greater chance of passing. A single point is five Proto's after all.
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The Spirits developed the ProtoMechWarrior phenotype, too, so I assume that they had more than enough pilots to go around.
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The Spirits developed the ProtoMechWarrior phenotype, too, so I assume that they had more than enough pilots to go around.
It's a time-frame issue. When the Proto's were first adopted by the Blood Spirits there was no dedicated phenotype and the aerospace phenotype was considered the way to go. But even after trials very few will pass and they will be dedicated to the aerospace arm.
So would those that fail test down instead as Techs into the Protomech Program in a second test? And of course they can't test as Protomech Pilots without the EI already implanted. Which means before they can test as Protomech Pilots they would need EI implanted.
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It's a time-frame issue. When the Proto's were first adopted by the Blood Spirits there was no dedicated phenotype and the aerospace phenotype was considered the way to go. But even after trials very few will pass and they will be dedicated to the aerospace arm.
So would those that fail test down instead as Techs into the Protomech Program in a second test? And of course they can't test as Protomech Pilots without the EI already implanted. Which means before they can test as Protomech Pilots they would need EI implanted.
That would quite be expensive, especially for the Spirits, would that not be?
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I think EI treatment was for those that passed the test. Everyone else that failed the Aero test would have been given the Proto test as part of the Aero test, weeding out the failures as well.
Like your SATs in HS. Failed it meant your college app was most likely denied, but you could still graduate to become a fry cook. But those that pass-fail, with a meh score, could still goto a community college and still apply. But failing that, there is always the fry cook position available.
In other words, you're taking the Aero test and the Proto test, in simulation. Passing the Proto would allow you the EI treatment to compensate for the Protomech's drawbacks, ie: the chemical treatments.
If you pass, congrats.
If not, well the Tech Caste program is ready to except their newest member, here's your hydro-spanner and there's the door, quiaff?
TT
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I don't know if I agree. A ProtoMech pilot isn't going to be able to pilot a Proto to be able to test in one without the EI implants. And ProtoMech technology itself is considered cheap enough in-universe that the Spirits were able to get mileage out of them, so I don't see it as being a big deal for them to do. Especially once they got their phenotype going, which I would think means they're probably getting them used to EI implants well before they're due to test out since they're being set up from the get-go to be ProtoMech pilots, as opposed to being set up to become aerospace pilots and ending up in a ProtoMech if they failed. There wasn't that much time between when the Spirits got ProtoMechs (at some point post-3060) and when they had their ProtoMech phenotype (sometime during or before 3067).
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I meant that as when you got tested first, certain trait scores follow upped to "coach" them as Protos.
Like, anyone can be a pilot, but some can't grasp gravity, but instead of turning them away, let's see how well they handle large scale Mecha first? Like we know the clans don't waste things, so if your not good enough for one program, there are others that they can try in.
Not good with Hurdles, try running, or shotput, it is still Track and Field.
TT
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The logistics of the early years of the Blood Spirits adoption of the Protomechs would make for a great story. Besides the construction and deployment of the Proto's it would have both required training, medical enhancement, supply, movement of personal from other duties to supporting the Protomech Program. And that's not even bringing up the entire issue of the warriors we have already discussed. It's actually kind of fascinating.
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We actually got a bit of that in "Tears of Blood", an old BattleCorps story by Randall Bills. I quite enjoyed it. Our first real experience with what it's like to be a ProtoMech pilot.
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We actually got a bit of that in "Tears of Blood", an old BattleCorps story by Randall Bills. I quite enjoyed it. Our first real experience with what it's like to be a ProtoMech pilot.
ooo, nice, is this story still available ?
So far the only other Protomech stories is the Hell's Horses one, and the Scorpion Empire one
Going forward into ilClan would be interesting to see perhaps a Snow Raven one
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BTW it is interesting that the Spirits got help when the Protomech Pilot phenotype was created - by the Cloud Cobras. It was another joint venture.
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BTW it is interesting that the Spirits got help when the Protomech Pilot phenotype was created - by the Cloud Cobras. It was another joint venture.
Clan We hate everyone but sure let's work together-but just this once!
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after the trade of warships and mechs i'm surprised that there wasn't more activity between the clans
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after the trade of warships and mechs i'm surprised that there wasn't more activity between the clans
The Blood Spirits did have contact with some. They enjoyed good relations with the Fire Mandrills and the Snow Ravens and had trade with the Diamond Sharks. But they took the infighting of the Clans personally. They were great friends if you never betrayed them. The sad part is earning there trust wasn't easy and most Clans just didn't care about the Blood Spirits enough to try.
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Did the Spirit's ever have a joint venture with the Hell Horse's to create vehicle /Mechs or even joint raids with both clans love of vehiclesdespite the destruction of Symth -Jewel Kindraa
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Nope. The Spirits had no love for the Horses at all, specifically because of what happened with the Smythe-Jewels.
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Nope. The Spirits had no love for the Horses at all, specifically because of what happened with the Smythe-Jewels.
They had it coming too.
TT
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The Blood Spirits did have contact with some. They enjoyed good relations with the Fire Mandrills and the Snow Ravens and had trade with the Diamond Sharks. But they took the infighting of the Clans personally. They were great friends if you never betrayed them. The sad part is earning there trust wasn't easy and most Clans just didn't care about the Blood Spirits enough to try.
Well said the spirits really were ride or die for their very few true friends
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Well said the spirits really were ride or die for their very few true friends
I honestly had a theory that Nicky K originally planned to join the Spirits and have them act as his Clan but there lack of success in comparison to the Wolves had him join them instead. It's why they were named for a idea rather than a animal.
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I honestly had a theory that Nicky K originally planned to join the Spirits and have them act as his Clan but there lack of success in comparison to the Wolves had him join them instead. It's why they were named for a idea rather than a animal.
I doubt that was the case, honestly. Nicholas married Jennifer (sister of the Wolf Khan) before he joined the Wolves, and between that and Andery being a part of the Wolves, it makes more sense that he'd join the Clan where his strongest personal ties were. Plus the Spirits were named for an idea because Colleen Schmitt championed that idea long before the Clans came to be, thanks to the influence of her grandmother. It was the driving force of her entire life.
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I honestly had a theory that Nicky K originally planned to join the Spirits and have them act as his Clan but there lack of success in comparison to the Wolves had him join them instead. It's why they were named for a idea rather than a animal.
I wouldn't say the Spirits had a lack of success. They managed to hold the task force for Arcadia together (as intended btw) and they also gave a good showing of their military skills (though often cleaning up the mess the Vipers got themselves into). Oddly enough the Spirits seemed to be quite cordial with the Adders at this point. But bad decisions (or rather bad mouthing) pushed them into isolation. Which is sad considering their first Khan was a descendent from the last Blackwatch leader
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I wouldn't say the Spirits had a lack of success. They managed to hold the task force for Arcadia together (as intended btw) and they also gave a good showing of their military skills (though often cleaning up the mess the Vipers got themselves into). Oddly enough the Spirits seemed to be quite cordial with the Adders at this point. But bad decisions (or rather bad mouthing) pushed them into isolation. Which is sad considering their first Khan was a descendent from the last Blackwatch leader
It was the Burrocks who the blood feud began with. The Adders Absorption of them(And the ill-advised, rage fueled Blood Spirit interference with said Absorption) passed the feud to the Adders. I will always hold that this is where the Blood Spirits destroyed themselves.
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It was the Burrocks who the blood feud began with. The Adders Absorption of them(And the ill-advised, rage fueled Blood Spirit interference with said Absorption) passed the feud to the Adders. I will always hold that this is where the Blood Spirits destroyed themselves.
Oh God yes. Interfering in a Trial of Absorbtion was a huge mistake. Up till then the Adders didn't care about the Blood Spirits at all. But that old Rage just could not be contained.
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Thinking on that, I feel as though the Spirits feared the Adders were going to come sooner or later. The Absorption War brought the Spirits front and center on the Adder dartboard, but if the near entirety of the Burrock Touman was Absorbed I'm not sure much would have changed in the preexisting Burrock-Spirit feud, just with the former-Burrocks having far stronger backing and support than they previously did. The Spirits, fierce Warriors but isolated politically and concentrated mainly on York, would have made a fine whetstone to sharpen the swollen Adder Touman and help integrate it.
Damned-if-they-did, damned-if-they-didn't, I think.
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Thinking on that, I feel as though the Spirits feared the Adders were going to come sooner or later. The Absorption War brought the Spirits front and center on the Adder dartboard, but if the near entirety of the Burrock Touman was Absorbed I'm not sure much would have changed in the preexisting Burrock-Spirit feud, just with the former-Burrocks having far stronger backing and support than they previously did. The Spirits, fierce Warriors but isolated politically and concentrated mainly on York, would have made a fine whetstone to sharpen the swollen Adder Touman and help integrate it.
Damned-if-they-did, damned-if-they-didn't, I think.
I disagree, at least in part.
Without the Spirits' interference, the Burrock Absorption would've been much bloodier for the Burrocks and Adders alike, as the lion's share of the losses in that conflict were due to the Spirits jumping in (per the Adder entry FM:CC and WoK). Without them showing up, the Burrocks would've had no reason to team up with the Adders and would've been much more likely to fight for their right to exist.
I'm 50/50 at best on the Adders still going after the Spirits without the Spirits' interference in the Absorption. It's true that one of the reasons for the Adders going after them was to mollify the Burrocks in their ranks, but the primary reason they did so was to punish the Spirits for their interference (and to avenge their losses, which were considerable... remember, the Spirits took out three of their Galaxies and four of the Burrocks' Galaxies for the five they lost).
The Adders might've decided to do that touman sharpening on other enemies of their Clan, or the invading Clans, and seized power in the Homeworlds much earlier, without having to get in bed with Brett Andrews. On the flip side of the coin, the Adders might've had a much worse problem on its hands with the Burrocks in their ranks, as their increased numbers in the touman and in the lower castes could've magnified their discontent in the tight-knit Adder ranks.
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I agree with the majority of casualties caused by the Spirits bit, but it didn't really seem to be shaping up like the Burrocks were fighting hard for their survival up to that point.
The original Adder plan, which I realize the Spirits couldn't have known, was to decapitate the treasonous leadership of the Burrocks on the expectation that the remainder wouldn't fight to their fullest. It seems as though the Adders had accomplished this within 2 days of dropping onto Albion, and likely would have stood to Absorb the great majority of the Burrocks had the Spirits not interfered in the 11th hour just as Carlos Hutchinson and Cassius N'Buta were about to duel with the fate of Albion on the line. The tone in fighting elsewhere is mostly that of disheartened Warriors not putting up a strong showing, only Dagda seemed to see any other heavy fighting prior to Spirits' entry and even then only 2 of the 3 Burrock Clusters were obeying orders to hold at all costs.
If they didn't show up, I'd see an engorged Clan Star Adder eventually picking up where Clan Burrock left off in regards to the Spirits, if only to appease some of the new voices and influence of the abtakha on their new Clan. It would be interesting to what extent this may have happened, as without the huge holes in their Touman, maybe the Adders wouldn't have rushed to adopt so many former Burrocks as Warriors...
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That's fair. But I still don't see fear, of all things, as a motivator for the Spirits to take action the way they did. It was made abundantly clear that they acted out of hatred for the Adders and resentment for the Adders being given the right of Absorption over them, which still makes no sense to me. Trials of Absorption are supposed to be bid on, and that definitely didn't happen here, not with the Adders throwing virtually their entire touman into the fight (as is the norm for them). Surely another Clan would've bid lower than nine Galaxies to take seven Burrock Galaxies.
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If they didn't show up, I'd see an engorged Clan Star Adder eventually picking up where Clan Burrock left off in regards to the Spirits, if only to appease some of the new voices and influence of the abtakha on their new Clan. It would be interesting to what extent this may have happened, as without the huge holes in their Touman, maybe the Adders wouldn't have rushed to adopt so many former Burrocks as Warriors...
I would also see the Adders as having continued the harrassment of the Spirits, but the Burrocks weren't trying to destroy the Spirits. It was the same degree of "rivalry" as between the Wolves and the Falcons or the Bears and the Horses or the Ice Hellions and everybody. The Adders would have done raids and trials here and there, but they wouldn't have dropped in to do the decade long siege of York.
Interestingly, the Spirits could have tried to negotiate with the Adders for a Contract Bid against the Burrocks, if they had not gone "No! These are our blood enemies! You have no right to be the ones Absorbing them!" In fact, if the Spirits had thought about it, their feud was why they should not have been the Clan to have had the Right of Absorbtion. Do we really believe that the Blood Spirits getting that would have ended in anything less than a de facto Anhillation, like the Adders did to them in the end? When Passion rules, she never rules wisely...
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My FLGS had a 'Military Parade" last weekend: bring a fully painted army and show it off! They said they are planning to post pics to social media.
I represented with my Omicron Provisional Galaxy battlemechs!
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Nice! Some real classics in there.
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Nice! Some real classics in there.
I can"t seem to find my Crimson Langour :embarrassed: :embarrassed:
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My goodness, those are simply gorgeous, Top!
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Thanks Tassa! :)
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Oh now that there is a thing of beauty!
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My FLGS had a 'Military Parade" last weekend: bring a fully painted army and show it off! They said they are planning to post pics to social media.
I represented with my Omicron Provisional Galaxy battlemechs!
Love to see all the protos!
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I can"t seem to find my Crimson Langour :embarrassed: :embarrassed:
It's out there backstabbing a Timberwolf somewhere.
Fantastic looking unit!
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My FLGS had a 'Military Parade" last weekend: bring a fully painted army and show it off! They said they are planning to post pics to social media.
I represented with my Omicron Provisional Galaxy battlemechs!
Holy smokes. That is a beautiful sight to behold.
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Did the Spirit's have heavy assault battle armor
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They had access to the Golem according to the MUL (and Elemental, Elemental (Space), and Salamander for the rest)
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They had access to the Golem according to the MUL (and Elemental, Elemental (Space), and Salamander for the rest)
I am sure they salvaged a lot of Corona from the Star Adders, as well...
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So here is a question for everybody to quarrel over. After the War of Reavings how much of the defeated Society gear do you think the Blood Spirits gathered up for there own use? I know most of the gear would have been seen as Dezgra but the need to rebuild would outweigh the urge to strip and destroy usable Protomechs and Battlemechs as well as SL era armor and equipment.
This has nothing to do with my getting a bunch of Boggarts and Sprites...
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I know most of the gear would have been seen as Dezgra but the need to rebuild would outweigh the urge to strip and destroy usable Protomechs and Battlemechs as well as SL era armor and equipment.
That's the answer right there, IMO. The Spirits, despite their own deviations, certainly aren't going to look kindly on the Society or its dezgra equipment. I could see them taking in the stuff that the Clans were okay with using, but not the blacklisted stuff. Else we'd have likely heard about it when the Adders wiped them out, I think; such things would've just spurred them on further to Annihilate them.
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I’d want to check WoR Supplemental again for the dates. There was a blurb in there about the Clans using Society gear and they agreed to use the ‘Pariah’ but not Cepheleus (sp?) because it’s not a true combat mech, and the Osteon was a maybe because of the ingrained Nova CEWS. But I don’t know if that predates their destruction.
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I’d want to check WoR Supplemental again for the dates. There was a blurb in there about the Clans using Society gear and they agreed to use the ‘Pariah’ but not Cepheleus (sp?) because it’s not a true combat mech, and the Osteon was a maybe because of the ingrained Nova CEWS. But I don’t know if that predates their destruction.
I'm not sure if that agreement was before or after the Blood Spirits ended up in front of the Adders guns.
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I’d want to check WoR Supplemental again for the dates. There was a blurb in there about the Clans using Society gear and they agreed to use the ‘Pariah’ but not Cepheleus (sp?) because it’s not a true combat mech, and the Osteon was a maybe because of the ingrained Nova CEWS. But I don’t know if that predates their destruction.
The Grand Council voted on this in 3081, FYI, and only the Septicemia wasn't outlawed from use. All the Clans also shunned the Boggart, so there's no reason to think the Spirits would have adopted it. It does however note that the Clans' severe military depletion did allow them to use what they were able to salvage off the battlefield (this was specifically regarding ProtoMechs), but this was before the WoR Supplemental, which is where continuing usage was sorted out with the Grand Council.
So yes, there's a little bit of wiggle room there if one wanted to field these Protos with the Spirits in limited numbers, but given that the Spirits withdrew from the Homeworlds post-WoR and certainly wouldn't have fielded them before then (not with the Vipers purifying everyone's taints), the window seems kinda small to me (i.e., during the initial Cobra/Lion/Coyote seizures on Haven and Honor and their shortly-thereafter Annihilation by the Adders).
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Any ideas on a new clan totem
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Any ideas on a new clan totem
Totem? As in a new symbol? Or Totem Mech?
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You could go with one of the horned lizards that squirts blood from its eyes.
(https://sp-ao.shortpixel.ai/client/to_webp,q_glossy,ret_img,w_400,h_276/https://periergeia.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/lagarto.gif)
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The Spirits' unofficial "totem" appears to be the blood kite (as in the actual predatory bird, as seen in Upsilon's logo), and since we've seen Mechs like the Stooping Kite, the Crimson Hawk and the eponymous Blood Kite itself, it stands to reason that any further "totem Mech" designs from the Spirits would almost certainly fall along similar lines.
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a sword ... a claymore!
I'm thinking a Knight, like a black knight ... or even The Black Knight.
None Shall Pass.
... you pansies!
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new totem ,mech maybe any ideas other then the Blood Kite
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new totem ,mech maybe any ideas other then the Blood Kite
a "Blood Knight" ... 75ton Black Knight OmniMech. With a sword in a config or two. (nothing more, or else we get sent to the design boards ... but, I have a whole MML file about doing this)
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An Omni-Version of the Black Knight would be pretty badass. Really drive it home would be the chest has the Blood Spirit logo sculpted right on it.
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An Omni-Version of the Black Knight would be pretty badass. Really drive it home would be the chest has the Blood Spirit logo sculpted right on it.
oooh nice. I think there's an IS version? or maybe it was from the click-tech stuff or a MW game. I know there's the Spirit Walker, but it's not the same thing ... well kinda, but the Coyote's went a different mystical route with it.
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Well, there has ever been a totem;
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Blood_Spirit_(species)
:wink:
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oooh nice. I think there's an IS version? or maybe it was from the click-tech stuff or a MW game. I know there's the Spirit Walker, but it's not the same thing ... well kinda, but the Coyote's went a different mystical route with it.
It is a Black Knight omni...with thinner rear armors which imply it was made for dueling 1 on 1
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what was the source? comp game or clix?
duh, nm. I need to read more closely (thanks Hobbes). Spirit Walker is an omni. I think us BS-ers need to reskin the mech! Trial of *insert* for complete control.
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what was the source? comp game or clix?
duh, nm. I need to read more closely (thanks Hobbes). Spirit Walker is an omni. I think us BS-ers need to reskin the mech! Trial of *insert* for complete control.
First I have heard of the Spirit Walker! A definite must for the Blood Spirits in some way or fashion.
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Erm, as per Master Units List, the Blood Spirits have it ever since it was developed until the End in 3084.
We should have more of it. It use standard engine and standard armor, but with omni tech. It use Endo steel I think.
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And someone did up a Spirit Walker mini (not hard to do if you use a Black Knight mini) in Blood Spirits color.
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=80441.0
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lol, I've commented on that.
it looks awesome.