Clan Blood Spirit: Get Off Our Lawn

[Stormlion1]

Sadly the Spirits purpose was squashed early on in there history and it didn't help that Nicky K was one of the ones that helped in that. On the other hand the Spirits also screwed themselves giving away assets early on in there history which just made them just weak enough for the other Clans to see them as a easy mark. I'm guessing they started out with a fleet and force of mechs on par with the other Clans as well as planetary holdings. Most of which was gone by the Golden Century.

[tassa_kay]

These are all interesting ideas, but FM:CC is pretty clear as to why the Spirits retracted into isolation: the other Clans (who were already starting to dismiss their offers of aid, having debts owed to them ignored, and having their ilChis mocked as "unClanlike") turned on them for having the audacity to sympathize with the Wolverines. When the Grand Council (including Nicholas Kerensky) censured them for it, Khan Schmitt saw that the time of Clans cooperating together was over and cancelled the ilChi program.

Afterwards, the Burrocks and Mongooses (among others) took it upon themselves to continuously prey on the Spirits to prove that they were indeed weak and soft, and because the Spirits had been offering freely of themselves to help the other Clans for years, they were unable to build up their forces as quickly as the others, so the raids were more devastating for them. And when Nicholas died during the Widowmaker Refusal, that was the nail in the coffin for them.

If anything, Alan Grant, what you're describing is true... but for the other Clans, not for the Blood Spirits. Which isn't to say that the Spirits didn't despise the other Clans, but if their attitude was as you describe it, they'd never have allied themselves with the fractious Mandrills.

[Alan Grant]

You are correct Tassa. Good rundown of the events as they happened and in the correct order.

The Spirits remind me of the first time I ever tried to play a Total War franchise game, I think the medieval one. So big strategy/run a nation kind of game. I was terrible at it, I had no idea what I was doing. Pretty soon I was down to my capital province and what tiny army it could support and nothing else. None of the other factions came to finish me off, I just existed stuck in a state where no one attacked my capital to finish me off, and neither could I build up a sufficient force to both defend my capital and attack somewhere else. I just sat waiting for the end to come and it never did.

What was funny about it, was that I refused to just quit playing. I kept loading that same saved game and kept trying to figure out a way to get out of the quagmire. I spent hours watching Turn after Turn go by, really unable to do anything. I was happy to see my treasury go up 1,000 gold (over the course of many Turns), even though that wasn't enough to change the dynamic at all. I had maxed out what I was capable of with just my one region and its city.

All around me on the campaign map, other factions rose and fell, large wars were fought. I was just stuck. Not quite failed, but definitely not successful. I was the only player but the AI factions were having a lot more fun than I was.

The Spirits remind me a lot of that game. When I start to think about their strategic situation it puts me right back into the headspace of what that game felt like.

[tassa_kay]

I think that's spot-on, Alan.

I mean, just look at their history. They started out on par with the other Clans in terms of forces and holdings, then they contracted post-Wolverines/post-Widowmakers when they lost their Albion and Homer holdings, then they expanded out again under Khan Ceana Boques with new holdings on Foster (and making their first new friend in Kindraa Smythe-Jewel, which would continue on with the Mandrills after that Kindraa fell), then contracted again because of the constant Burrock raids on Foster's supply lines, then spent a period of time treading water and being unable to grow because of the constant predations by the Burrocks, then they traded WarShips for Mechs with the Snow Ravens and built their touman up (by the time of the Burrock Absorption, the Spirits fielded twelve Galaxies), then the Absorption War happened and the Spirits' touman was shattered by the Burrocks and Adders, then the Spirits took total control of York and retracted again, then they got involved in the Wars of Possession post-Great Refusal and started expanding again (including the establishment of their hidden colonies in Colleen), which continued on into the Wars of Reaving where they were probably the most active and expansive they'd ever been, then they retracted again after devastating losses in the WoR (most egregiously the Adders' genocidal destruction of York) and Viper Annihilation... and just as they were starting to climb out of the abyss, the Adders returned and finally finished them off.

Writing it all out like that, it sounds almost exactly like that game.

[alex blood spirit]

i was wondering if Khan Schmidt had the vision and foresight  to work behind the with a few senior commanders that had favorable  feelings towards the spirits

[StCptMara]

i was wondering if Khan Schmidt had the vision and foresight  to work behind the with a few senior commanders that had favorable  feelings towards the spirits

Honestly, if you are talking Karianna Schmidt? No. Otherwise she would not have interfered with the Burrock Absorption. As much as people jokingly refer to the Ice Hellions as "Clan Temper Tantrum," under Khan Schmidt, Blood SPirits pretty much were that....and it cost us everything in the end. I am willing to bet that, had Blood Spirit not interfered in the Burrock Absorption, the Adders would not have had the bad blood towards the Spirits, and the events on York would not have happened, and we would not have bled our Touman ahead of that. And, with 11-12 Galaxies instead of 8? We might have been able to have come out of the Wars of Reaving a lot better...Also, frankly, we would have been better off if Khan Schmidt had died during the Great Refusal...

[ColBosch]

It's one of those moments that would've dramatically changed the universe moving forwards. Had Blood Spirit stood aloof during the Burrock Absorption, they could've claimed the moral high ground as the Conscience of the Clans during the Wars of Reaving, and might even have been listened to. This opens up a whole new slew of possibilities beyond the Adders' rather predictable whinging about "Inner Sphere taint" and the Homeworlds turning insular. A race for Terra where the Homeworlds Clans are known to be paying attention is, to me, vastly more interesting, even if the end result is the same.

[ColBosch]

Like, Wolf vs. Republic of the Sphere vs. Jade Falcon was okay, but Wolf vs. Republic vs. Falcon vs. Blood Spirit vs. Word of Blake would've been awesome. Really pull out all the stops and give us the Rage in a Cage slugfest that the fiction seemed to be working towards, even if Alaric still wins in the end.

[alex blood spirit]

i would like to ask my previous question a bit differently if Blood Spirits 1st Khan Collen Schimdt even after the Wolverine inciedent if she had a few friends in other clans to keep the lines of communication maybe the Spiritrs would  not have beeen beatenuphard

[StCptMara]

i would like to ask my previous question a bit differently if Blood Spirits 1st Khan Collen Schimdt even after the Wolverine inciedent if she had a few friends in other clans to keep the lines of communication maybe the Spiritrs would  not have beeen beatenuphard

I think the "You either vote for the Annihilation of the Wolverines...or you are next" ultimatum from The Founder put paid to diplomacy. Also, do consider what we saw in Betrayal of Ideals. The other Clans were already more concerned with their petty rivalries than any sort of Esprits de Corps. The excuses ultimately used on the Not Named Clan were their being too successful, their advancing too swiftly technologically, and their not sharing freely enough. In that environment, could there really be cooperation between Clans? And Blood Spirit had the audacity to think that those "rebels" deserved a fair shake? There really could not be allies within the other Clans for the Blood Spirits in those early days following the Annihilation of the Not Named.

[Metallgewitter]

I thought that the Nova Cats were also rather sympathetic to the Wolverines (at least that's why I thought reading how their second Khan was basically killed for her Wolverine-leanings). Also a rather funny sidenote: when Klondike began the Adders and Spirits were on rather friendly terms and the Spirits actually managed to play mediator. Schmitt probably thought that some of the wolverines were "salvagable" or rather that they didn't deserve punishment for the actions of their leaders. And I can't blame her for someone who witnessed the entire civil war on Terra she probably doesn't want to see such destruction / death again.

Also the Spirits made some good gains during the Wars of Reaving but also suffered from the actions of their allies (like that debacle against the Adders when the Mandrills decided to intervene against the wishes of the Spirits) And their own stupidity against the retreating Bears...

[tassa_kay]

Fun fact: the Blood Spirits' hall on York was the only place in all of Clan space that the Wolverines' original symbol was still kept on display, as part of a mosaic depicting Colleen Schmitt.

[Tyler Jorgensson]

Fun fact: the Blood Spirits' hall on York was the only place in all of Clan space that the Wolverines' original symbol was still kept on display, as part of a mosaic depicting Colleen Schmitt.

Interesting: where was this tidbit?

I’m still working on a Wolverine AU and still having some issues writing the whole how they survive issue lol. Having Blood Spirits be sympathetic was always a thing but good to know theirs info I missed.

[tassa_kay]

Interesting: where was this tidbit?

The BattleCorps story "Tears of Blood", in the very first chapter.

[Tyler Jorgensson]

The BattleCorps story "Tears of Blood", in the very first chapter.

Damn BattleCorps!!! Too many good stories and now they’re lost in the wind.

Thanks

[Stormlion1]

Damn BattleCorps!!! Too many good stories and now they’re lost in the wind.

Thanks

If anyone has it as a PDF it might be possible to email it to someone who wants it.

[Wolf72]

Honestly, if you are talking Karianna Schmidt? No. Otherwise she would not have interfered with the Burrock Absorption. As much as people jokingly refer to the Ice Hellions as "Clan Temper Tantrum," under Khan Schmidt, Blood SPirits pretty much were that....and it cost us everything in the end. I am willing to bet that, had Blood Spirit not interfered in the Burrock Absorption, the Adders would not have had the bad blood towards the Spirits, and the events on York would not have happened, and we would not have bled our Touman ahead of that. And, with 11-12 Galaxies instead of 8? We might have been able to have come out of the Wars of Reaving a lot better...Also, frankly, we would have been better off if Khan Schmidt had died during the Great Refusal...

oooh I like this what if part ... Been stronger during the WoR and convinced everyone else that the CSA was tainted ala CSV.  Now, that would be an ugly fight.  A lot more remnants of clans hanging around instead of a giant CSA ready to swallow them all.  (lol, sometimes that CSA hate just comes thru! ... although I'm still getting 5 Blood Asps from the current KS)

[Stormlion1]

The Adders would have had issues with the other Clans if and when the absorbed Burrocks started to rebel against there new Clan during the Wars of Reaving. If the Spirits had waited they could have engaged the Burrocks without issue.

[Wolf72]

The Adders would have had issues with the other Clans if and when the absorbed Burrocks started to rebel against there new Clan during the Wars of Reaving. If the Spirits had waited they could have engaged the Burrocks without issue.

Clan Blood Spirit scoffs at your strategy of patience! ... (and that you are probably right)

[StCptMara]

Clan Blood Spirit scoffs at your strategy of patience! ... (and that you are probably right)

Not probably..and Patience really was Blood Spirit throughout their history...right up until the Burrock Absorption...

[tassa_kay]

As much as the Absorption War does make sense as the culmination of a feud that was so bad that it was said to have truly unbalanced both Clans, the decision to intervene in the Burrock Absorption was definitely *the* beginning of the end for them. I wish they'd done a bit better by Karianna Schmitt, to be honest, but it is what it is.

I think the Spirits should've stayed in isolation with their 12 Galaxies and let the Adders Absorb the Burrocks... and then have the Burrocks fracture the Adders in civil war, giving the Adders and the Spirits a chance to actually look at each other and realize that they both want the same damn thing: unity amongst the Clans so they can restore the Inner Sphere together, and then crushing the Burrocks between them. It's such a colossal waste that things shook out the way that they did.

[HobbesHurlbut]

So going over Wars of Reaving sourcebook and supplement, only four clans in 3072 have a Vehicle RAT table each. No one else has one including the Blood Spirits. Does imply to me that the remnants of the Touman have no intact vehicle trinaries and probably replaced wholesale by ProtoMechs.

[tassa_kay]

So going over Wars of Reaving sourcebook and supplement, only four clans in 3072 have a Vehicle RAT table each. No one else has one including the Blood Spirits. Does imply to me that the remnants of the Touman have no intact vehicle trinaries and probably replaced wholesale by ProtoMechs.

I think you're reading too much into it.

The vehicle table is labeled as a combination of 3072 and 3085, but only includes the non-Abjured Home Clans of 3085, which implies to me that this is simply an oversight and was clearly intended to only represent the four non-Abjured surviving Home Clans as of 3085. Unless you honestly think that the Bears, Wolves, Falcons, Horses, Ravens, Sharks, Vipers, Hellions and Mandrills were also not using vehicles in 3072, which is preposterous.

[HobbesHurlbut]

I think you're reading too much into it.

The vehicle table is labeled as a combination of 3072 and 3085, but only includes the non-Abjured Home Clans of 3085, which implies to me that this is simply an oversight and was clearly intended to only represent the four non-Abjured surviving Home Clans as of 3085. Unless you honestly think that the Bears, Wolves, Falcons, Horses, Ravens, Sharks, Vipers, Hellions and Mandrills were also not using vehicles in 3072, which is preposterous.

What then? They had a general aerospace table for all clans presented in 3072. But not a general vehicle table for rest of the clans?

[HobbesHurlbut]

I checked the WoR Supplementary Errata thread. That vehicle table is in fact supposed to be the *General* vehicle table. The Clan Names are wrong; they're meant to be vehicle weight classes (Light, Medium, Heavy, and Assault). Which mean I have an addendum to make to the WoR RAT percentage post.

[tassa_kay]

What then? They had a general aerospace table for all clans presented in 3072. But not a general vehicle table for rest of the clans?

I literally just said that it was likely an oversight. But I see you figured that out already. :)

[wantec]

Additionally, if you want a Blood Spirit-specific table, there's ones in the back of Field Manual Updates, which is set in 3067 (or thereabout). And for just plain availability and not a RAT, there's the MUL and the era availability lists.

[HobbesHurlbut]

Additionally, if you want a Blood Spirit-specific table, there's ones in the back of Field Manual Updates, which is set in 3067 (or thereabout). And for just plain availability and not a RAT, there's the MUL and the era availability lists.

Yeah I went over that already
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/clan-chatterweb/clan-blood-spirit-get-off-our-lawn/msg1942012/#msg1942012

[alex blood spirit]

if the Spirit.s changed their course in the beginning had a similar to the Sea Foxes Khan Nagasawa things may have been different for the Spirits

[HobbesHurlbut]

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,82274.msg1954504.html#msg1954504
Rifleman C Blood Spirit. It's more of a Garrison/Defense unit.